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Topic: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Iowaman
Posted 2004-12-09 19:33:02 and read 7118 times.

New jet service planned between Atlanta and Hickory, Atlanta and Kinston; Raleigh-Durham to gain new non-stop flights to New Orleans, Tampa Bay


ATLANTA, Dec. 9 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta (NYSE: DAL - News) customers soon will find it easier to travel to most any region of the Tar Heel state thanks to new Delta Connection jet service planned for three North Carolina communities.
Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA) will introduce the only non-stop jet service between Atlanta and Kinston, N.C., and between Atlanta and Hickory, N.C., effective April 1 and May 1, respectively. Customers in both communities will enjoy three daily flights to Atlanta - the world's largest single-airline hub - where they will have access to more than 1,000 daily Delta and Delta Connection flights to nearly 200 worldwide destinations.

Additionally, beginning March 2, Delta Connection carrier Chautauqua Airlines will introduce two daily non-stop flights between Raleigh-Durham and New Orleans, while increasing to three the number of daily roundtrip flights between Raleigh-Durham and Tampa/St. Petersburg/Clearwater. The new flights between Raleigh-Durham and New Orleans will be the only non-stop service offered by any airline between the two cities and join a long list of non-stop destinations already available to Raleigh-Durham customers, including Delta and Delta Connection service to Atlanta, Boston, Cincinnati, Fort Lauderdale, Orlando, New York (LaGuardia and JFK) and Tampa/St. Petersburg/Clearwater.

With the new service, Delta and Delta Connection carriers will offer North Carolina customers a total of 130 daily departures from eight hometown airports - Asheville, Charlotte, Fayetteville, Greensboro/Winston Salem/High Point, Hickory, Kinston, Raleigh-Durham and Wilmington.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041209/clth038_1.html

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-09 19:37:49 and read 7088 times.

Hmm...
RDU-MSY; knew there was a market, but never quite saw DL being the one to fulfill it. Good stuff  Big thumbs up

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Ord
Posted 2004-12-09 19:47:06 and read 7056 times.

Where does it say they are flying to PIE?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Iowaman
Posted 2004-12-09 19:57:54 and read 7041 times.

Oops, my mistake I guess they are counting Tampa/St. Petersburg/Clearwater all is TPA instead of TPA and PIE. Sorry.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-09 20:09:42 and read 7031 times.

Seems funny,

AE has been the largest regional carrier at RDU. Delta Connection may just overtake them.

As AA/AE is dropping 5 frequencies from RDU (one each BOS, CMH, BDL, PVD, ORD) and adding 1 (STL), DLX is adding frequencies (3 FLL, 3 TPA, 1 MCO, 2 MSY, 1 BOS).

Pretty soon may see SLC or LAX on DL... who knows?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: LambertMan
Posted 2004-12-09 20:38:57 and read 6975 times.

DLX has alot of work to do to catch up to AE's 60 or so flights a day....

I certainly don't think that DL will be passing them anytime soon.

If they had problems supporting a couple CR7's to DEN, then I have a feeling that SLC won't be coming anytime in the near future.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-09 20:41:06 and read 6966 times.

I hear the problem was that the CR7 was too weight restricted to work onthe DEN flights.. also heard Mesa had a problem with timeliness which added to the problems..

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ATWZW170
Posted 2004-12-09 20:42:43 and read 6956 times.

That was UA who had the flights to DEN.

I'm glad DL is starting this service. I don't think they compete totally head to head with AA/Eagle. They have a few over lapping routes but am glad to see RDU-MSY non-stop again. I'm VERY surprised with ISO service. I'm wondering if they are going to be getting government money for that route.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-09 20:47:43 and read 6946 times.

In a word, YES.. I'm sure they will be getting government subsidies (part of the $1.2 Million pie) as well as the NC subsidies for using Kinston jetport (not sure how much that is)...

DLX/AE compete on JFK (5 to 4), LGA (5 to 10), BOS (5 to 9), MCO (6 to 2weekend)

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2004-12-10 00:49:09 and read 6826 times.

"AE has been the largest regional carrier at RDU. Delta Connection may just overtake them."

WN is the largest carrier at RDU by passengers carried, followed by DL. It's likely that will increase further with these additions. AA is 3rd by PAX carried.

Jeremy

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 01:05:50 and read 6803 times.

AE has been the largest regional carrier at RDU. Delta Connection may just overtake them

Regional airlines... AE, DLX, CoEx, UAX, USX, NWAirlink

American Eagle is the number one regional carrier.. followed by Delta Connection..

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Big777jet
Posted 2004-12-10 01:27:05 and read 6762 times.

It's not SIO, it should be ISO. ISO = Kinston, NC.


Too bad, Southeast is gone. Hickory,NC (HKY) will never see DC-9 or MD80 into the service. Why can't Delta using MD88 to HKY? LOL  Laugh out loud It would be nice!


Stuart


Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 01:30:31 and read 6755 times.

Perhaps Hooters will go to HKY.. They seem to follow the same logic as Southeast in flying to secondary airports.. HKY could be their CLT alternative..

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Flyibaby
Posted 2004-12-10 01:47:49 and read 6724 times.

I'm sorry..Hickory and Kinston are bad moves. Esp. three flights a day. I don't see the opportunity to make money on an RJ route that long to MSY, and finally will someone tell me where exactly DL plans to park these extra rjs? They are already maxed out on their gates 17 & 18 and their overnight parking situation is a nightmare with having to park about four rjs on the fbo ramp.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ATWZW170
Posted 2004-12-10 01:53:22 and read 6712 times.

FlyI is trying to make money on long RJ routes....why not RDU-MSY with DL? IAD - JAX is long......what's the difference if it's DL?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Flyibaby
Posted 2004-12-10 02:04:58 and read 6695 times.

The diff is we are actively trying to replace rj routes with airbus routes. Dont be surprised to see JAX operate with a 319 in the beginning of the year.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 02:23:30 and read 6678 times.

I don't see the opportunity to make money on an RJ route that long to MSY

Lets see...

RDU-AUS
RDU-DFW
RDU-STL
RDU-IND
RDU-IAH

All RJ markets... all doing well on their own.. I don't think RDU-MSY is very bad of a move.. it's a total of 140 seats a day.. I think RDU can handle that.. I would expect that it would probably be ~70-75% capacity.. the route did okay with JI and I do believe they used F100 (if not, it was the 737 at 2x daily).. It will provide some good leisure, business, and military traffic.. I think the flight will do well.. but we shall see what pre-flight bookings look like to see.. we have 3 months to see..

and finally will someone tell me where exactly DL plans to park these extra rjs?

Now THAT is a good question.. they can park 2 more at the FBO.. but there is a large RON area being constructed at the GA Terminal.. I assume there will be several airlines parking a/c over there.. it looks like it should be open by March or so... but RDU does need to work on an A/C parking lot on both terminal sides..

Edit: Add that DL is supposed to get gate A19 and AirTran is supposed to move to A24.. that would give DL another gate AND another area to park at least 1-2 more RJ...

[Edited 2004-12-10 02:30:53]

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Flyibaby
Posted 2004-12-10 02:35:06 and read 6656 times.

um..RDU-DFW won't be around for too much longer..STL is only out of nessecity (sp?) due to AA trying to keep somewhat of a presence. RDU-AUS is subsidised by business as well as SAS keeps the seats full to IND...although I never did understand why. MSY only made money around Mardi Gras because they could charge the money for the seats. Otherwise JI tried a combonation of RJ/F100/737 finally deciding to stick with the 737. About the only way they made money on the route, even with being an AA codeshare at the time, was by filling the belly with Mail/Cargo, and an RJ doesn't have the capacity to do this..

oh..and dont count your chickens on the parking ramp at GA. Piedmont is getting ready to construct their largest hanger there soon.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 02:54:00 and read 6637 times.

I think that what you will find is that 50% of RDU is business traffic... 50% is leisure traffic.. regardless of why or how the service is run, how it came to be, or who is paying for it.. it is still a profitable destination... I don't think DL just decided to throw 2 RJ at RDU for the hell of it.. and neither did NW.. I think they are the last company to do that.. I don't think they are experimental routes either.. STL is a heavy travelled business route, also.. quite profitable for AA (hence the 6th flight added in Apr I think)...

Piedmont just completed their current hanger built in the past year... why are they builiding another? They choose that hanger.. crazy to start building another one so soon after opening their current one.. I mean, they (along with Southern Jet) do get business, but...

As of yesterday when I was atthe GA terminal, it looked like they were on their final phase for the GA apron area.. I asked a RDUAA manager what they were doing (as of July) and she said it was an increased apron area.. nothing about a new hanger.. in fact, she told me that they didn't want any hangers where beside the runway because it would block the view from the GA terminal.. but, who knows...

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 03:38:36 and read 6599 times.

Alright,

Just checked out Piedmont, and they are indeed supposed to build an additional 3 hangers at RDU.. so where is DL supposed to park these extra A/C? I have no idea.. perhaps they will squeeze them in their new gate area.. that's about all I can guess right now.. although.. all I can see is 1 extra RJ from the MSY flight and 1 extra from the TPA flight perhaps.. they can easily be parked at the new gate... they currently park 3 deep at some of the gates at RDU..

[Edited 2004-12-10 03:38:58]

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: RDUBE90Pilot
Posted 2004-12-10 04:01:58 and read 6565 times.

If you go into Piedmont, walk down the hallway and on the right side at the end(before the counter) you can see the plans for the hangars and ramp situation.

Eric

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: N1120a
Posted 2004-12-10 04:09:03 and read 6557 times.

I am just waiting to hear from the people constantly screaming for an LAX non-stop. Then again, if XNA has one, why not a 737 a day?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 04:18:15 and read 6541 times.

N1120a,

RDU-LAX probably won't be seen for a while... all the cries are just wishful thinking.. hoping perhaps some CEO will read this forum.. I do it, we all do it.. it will happen when/if it happens.. it's just fun to throw certain destiantions out there..

When I start my airline.. expect to see RDU-LAX... and if my friend has a say.. he wants me to call it Triple X Airways... where everybody wants to join the club.. LOL..


Eric,

Where are these hangers supposed to be located? I know RDUAA doens't want the view from the GA Terminal's outdoor deck obstructed...

[Edited 2004-12-10 04:21:12]

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Padcrasher
Posted 2004-12-10 06:31:04 and read 6471 times.

Dellta and fully owned and operated ASA/Comair board the most passengers in/out of RDU.

This is part of a systmatic effort by Delta to go after Airtran. DL is getting more demand by offering a non-stop flight versus Airtan's ATL connecting service. This also frees up Delta's ATL mainline flights to offer more discounted seats to make things difficult for them in ATL.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 14:33:11 and read 6395 times.

Following is from the local paper from New Bern.. evidently just as shocked as I am...

http://www.newbernsj.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=18874&Section=Local

Craven Regional Airport authorities are scratching their heads with Thursday's announcement that Delta Airlines plans to begin service between Kinston and its Atlanta hub.

They're wondering why the airline picked Kinston instead of the New Bern airport.

"Shocked and surprised is the best way to describe our reaction," said Jim Creech, chairman of Craven County Regional Airport Authority. "We've been in touch with Delta Airlines and didn't know anything about this coming."

Creech said airport officials and the airport's agent, Sexton Airlines Consultants, have "diligently tried to attract Delta to this area for quite some time."

Officials did say they were pleased for the opportunities the flights, set to begin April 1, offer the state and the region but admit they don't understand Delta's decision.

"I'm surprised and disappointed it isn't us," said Larry Scantlin, Craven County Regional Airport director. "We've been breaking records with passenger traffic because US Airways has really worked on their fares to be in competition with other airlines."

US Airways, with flights to Charlotte, is the lone commercial airline to serve the airport. Midway, which offered flights to Raleigh, left Craven after it declared bankruptcy following the 9-11 attacks.

"My congratulations to Kinston and the effort they've put in to develop this direct connection," said Jim Davis, Craven County Economic Development Commission director. "Maybe Kinston marketed as a jet connection will ignite some people's interest and hopefully Craven County Regional Airport can work through its team to convince others to offer service here in addition to US Airways."

The announcement comes on the heels of Onslow County's airport getting US Airways jet service to Charlotte. Uhmm.. when was this announced?

"I don't know what impact that will have on us, but I'm sure it will have some" John Price, an authority member and former airport director, said of the two announcements.

"When we heard the Jacksonville thing, the two US Airways jet flights a week, I figured it was because of the fact that Jacksonville traffic has increased so rapidly in the last year and in the fleet, turbo jets are becoming the rarity.

"We will continue to do whatever we can to attract jet service here. I'm sure it will be forthcoming in the future."

Creech said the airport's 6,000-foot runway could handle the 40-passenger jets.

"I don't know what reaction will come from US Airways," he said. "It may possibly mean they will feel the need to serve us with regional jets as well."

Passenger traffic to New Bern is at its highest level since before 9-11 and is higher than ever recorded at Kinston before commercial service was terminated there Jan. 2, 2000, Scantlin said.

A total of 144,265 passengers either got on or off a plane at the Craven airport from January through October, which is 26,226 more than for the same period in 2003.

US Airways is in bankruptcy but has not threatened to pull service from the Craven airport.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Flyibaby
Posted 2004-12-10 15:22:58 and read 6365 times.

ERJ,
Now you know why I am questioning DL's moves? I seriously doubt there are subsidies in either the Kinston or Hickory deals because their is scheduled air service at airports within a one hour drive of each location. There is definately not demand from either location to warrant three flights a day to ATL, esp not with a reg. jet, a j32 maybe twice a day, if they market the hell out of the flights. Finally though, I want the record to stand that I said this, I seriously doubt RDU-MSY will last a year, being as though this is hardly a 50% business 50% leisure market. DC is, not MSY. The correct ratio is maybe 15% business and rest very leisure. I cannot count the number of denied boardings we took at JI due to the type of passengers we were taking. I just don't see this market being successful.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: 7E72004
Posted 2004-12-10 15:28:42 and read 6353 times.

Here i thought PIE was going to get DL connection service  Big grin

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 15:31:25 and read 6348 times.

FlyIbaby,

I wondered what DL was thinking with HKY and ISO also. I know ISO had $200,000 for advertisement and set up for DL. I, however, don't see much success at ISO.. I could see DL switch to EWN though. HKY.. well, who knows... But who knows.. they could be successful.. I think FlyI should do a 2x daily to EWN.. perhaps you can whisper that into someone's ear, FlyIBaby....

RDU-MSY.. I still think that it will be successful. I mean, even at 75% capacity, DL only has to fill 132 seats daily... and that is traveling both directions... I think it can be done.. perhaps I am just optimistic. Lots of things has changed since the days of JI. But, only time will tell. Unless someone can tell me from DL the reason behind the route.. either way, i like it! Way to go Delta!!!

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2004-12-10 15:32:20 and read 6344 times.

I don't know if RDU-MSY will work, but DL seems to make RDU-FLL work (they're expanding it from the current 2x daily to 5x daily). Granted the South Florida market is a larger market than MSY, but DL also has some competition nearby as AA flies RDU-MIA. I'm sure the RDU-MSY will be predominantly leisure, but I'm guessing most of DL's RDU-FLL traffic is leisure too.

If DL can somehow manage to make 5x daily RDU-FLL work, then I think they have a decent chance of making 2x daily RDU-MSY work.

There are some upfront subsidies for the Kinston service. The local business community is providing DL with $200,000 in support to get the service started. This subsidy may have played a role in DL's choice of ISO over EWN.

I too have doubts about the Hickory/Kinston services, but if any hub can make these markets work, it's Atlanta. DL has served similarly sized markets (like Valdosta, Dothan and Macon) and they've made them work.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 15:36:57 and read 6347 times.

Delta is currently the only airline serving FLL from RDU.

What is interesting that a LOT of traffic and new residents in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area is from Upstate New York.. I mean, a LOT of new residents... I would have thought we would have gotten a RDU-BUF/ROC/SYR/ALB before we would have RDU-MSY.. but hell, we'll take anything we can get! It is good some of the old JI/AA hub destiantions are being revisited...

Can we get CUN, STT, ORY, Aruba??? Uhmm.. probably not..  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ATWZW170
Posted 2004-12-10 15:52:23 and read 6319 times.

ERJ, I never heard that OAJ was going to be US Airways Express jet service but sure as heck, it's in the computer. Last flight out of OAJ. Never thought I'd see jets in there again!

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 15:55:55 and read 6310 times.

Actually, it's 3 flights out of 8 will be CRJ...big upgrade for OAJ... I am still very shocked EWN is getting blackballed like they are.. completely overlooking such a nice airport with such substancial growth!

[Edited 2004-12-10 15:56:26]

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Scootertrash
Posted 2004-12-10 17:17:03 and read 6268 times.

Runway length at EWN is a big reason why they will not see jet service for a while. The CR7 may be able to do it with a fair amount of weight restrictions on departure, but forget the 50 seaters (acutally WORSE runway performance).

It looks as though DL finally figured out what a cash cow eastern NC has been for US Airways (especially with all of the military traffic). U will now have to reduce fares to continue to keep their RPMs out of these destinations high. U will still lose some passengers who want to fly on jets, not Dashes.

Scooter

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ATWZW170
Posted 2004-12-10 17:38:03 and read 6257 times.

E. NC has been a cash cow! US has been able to charge a premium into markets such as EWN, OAJ, PGV, even ILM to some extent.

RDU - MSY might do ok. Isn't DL the largest airline in MSY, if they aren't, they have to be second. I remember flying down there and just seeing a ton of DL jets. It was a flight attendant base for a long time.

RDU is a market where airlines don't look hard enough. Maybe it's not big enough to be a hub for one airline, but if a few airlines had point to point service to different markets, they would probably do ok. NW is seeing that right now, DL, AE...I just wish UA would stop dinking around and tap into that market more. Put aircraft that can perform, such as the DEN route. With so many people flying to FRA, I'd love to see UA fly...heck, throw in a 757 with the three cabins...I bet it would be full. I know AA get's money for the LGW route, but FRA might be different. Or who knows, maybe LH will look into it.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: RDUBE90Pilot
Posted 2004-12-10 18:40:54 and read 6196 times.

ERJ170,

There will be one more hangar to go up at Piedmont. It will be along the same line as the current hangars but set back a little bit towards the tower. It will be about the size of the two hangars combined that already stand. Everything infront of the buildings at Piedmont and SouthernJet will be ramp.

There will also be a small "truck shop" nestled into the Piedmont hangars where the corner will be formed with the new hangar.

As an operator out of Piedmont I can't wait for it all to be done as taxiing around that area is a real pain in the neck.

Eric

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 18:58:25 and read 6179 times.

okay.. interesting..

Eric,

Do you know how the hanger for AE is working out? Isn't it being built beside the SAS hanger? From what I read, it is the first of 5...

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: RDUBE90Pilot
Posted 2004-12-10 19:31:12 and read 6155 times.

ERJ170,

That I am not sure of.

Eric

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-10 19:32:05 and read 6156 times.

To be sure not Eric...

I am agast! LOL.. If you find out anything..let me know!

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Womack17
Posted 2004-12-14 06:28:26 and read 6036 times.

Hello to all my RDU buds. I have been away from the board for a while as I was in the hospital for the last three weeks. I must say that I absolutely thrilled with the new nonstop announcements but like my good buddy, ERJ170 stated - The ISO service really baffles me. Anyone who has lived down east knows that EWN is a much better airport with much larger passenger counts.

I would like to address a comment make about RDU.

"If they had problems supporting a couple CR7's to DEN, then I have a feeling that SLC won't be coming anytime in the near future."

The passenger loads were not the issue here trust me on that one. In the short time that RDU-DEN was in operation I flew on these flights a total of 16 flights (8 roundtrips). I decided to keep a record of how many pax were on each flight and the lowest pax load was 51. Ultimately this routing was pulled because United needs to pull their heads out of the as**s The route is simply too long for a CR7. The seats are not built for long distance travel. In addition the attitude of Mesa employees did not help. On all of my flights I only saw 3 FA's that really seemed to love their jobs. In general, the service was horrendous. I made the mistake of using some of my hard earned United miles to upgrade to first class and I have to say the service was pathetic. On the 3+ plus flight we were offered crackers, pretzels, or nuts. That was the extent of the Mesa first class experience. Next the weight restrictions also killed the route. On virtually every flight I witnessed passengers being bumped off a flight. These pax were none to happy when they learned that the next flight to DEN was 6-8 hours later. Lastly, Mesa was never on-time - Every one of my flights were delayed: Shortest time was 50 minutes and the longest was 4 hours sitting in Denver, In conclusion, it is easy to see why UA failed in their attempt to bring non-stop service to Denver. They would still be flying these routes today if they had simply used one of their 735's - and don't even bother to say that they were all in use. I miss the non-stops and like ERJ170 stated I too am optimistic. I actually would prefer Delta since I am a Skymiles passenger but at this point I would be happy with any airline as long as they offered true JET SERVICE!!! As has been mentioned before it would seem a logic choice to believe that Frontier will begin new service. If they do I certainly hope they use at least one A-318; I want to fly on the new aircraft. As has been mentioned before it would seem a logic choice to believe that Frontier will begin new service. If they do I certainly hope they use at least one A-318; I want to fly on the new aircraft and Frontier could make the dream come true.


Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2004-12-14 07:11:20 and read 6004 times.

I'm really looking forward to the new RDU-MSY service. JI used to fly the route nonstop with two daily CRJ's, then eventually upgraded the route to two daily 737's as the traffic steadily increased. The traffic is there for the route to succeed. Midway regularly filled its planes. Sure it may not be a real money making route, but I doubt seriously that an airline would add any route in this day of age that had no potential for success. Leave the yield management work to the people who work in that department. Just because a route "seems" to be low yield doesn't mean it is. DL will be the only carrier to fly direct between the two cities, so it can charge a slight premium for the service once it gets going, a premium which people would pay for nonstop flights.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-14 07:28:00 and read 5997 times.

JI used to fly the route nonstop with two daily CRJ's, then eventually upgraded the route to two daily 737's as the traffic steadily increased.

Thing is though... JI was going for hub feed.

DL isn't, so they must smell some real opportunity (read that: "yield") just on the O&D alone.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-14 07:28:59 and read 5997 times.

.......then again, makes ya wonder why WN never caught the same scent?  Yeah sure


Oh well, screw them; I'd rather see DL opping a new route outta here any day.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-14 07:39:56 and read 5993 times.

Time will tell..

I just have a feeling the the RDU-MSY flight will be successful.. Perhpas upgraded when/if Chautauqua gets the E170 for Delta? Will RDU be the only Connection destiantion for MSY after March? BTW.. according to FAA, there are 216.81 average daily passengers between RDU and MSY. Pretty good numbers for DL.. if they can get some of those passeners, plus build some.. should be a good bet..

Edit: Hey Wombat.. hope you are feeling better...
Also, does anyone know which routes were code-shared with AA by JI? I know LAX.. what others?]

[Edited 2004-12-14 07:46:37]

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2004-12-14 07:46:59 and read 5981 times.

ERJ170, Delta Connection still flies 3 daily ERJ's MSY-MCO and those will continue. Also as of March 1st, one of the 732's operating a CVG-MSY-CVG roundtrip will be replaced by an ASA CRJ-700. Sure that's a downgrade, but then again, one of the current 732 flights gets replaced by an MD-90 on 2/1, so I can't complain too much.

Fred you're right, screw WN. Good for Delta!

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: LambertMan
Posted 2004-12-14 07:48:50 and read 5980 times.

The passenger loads were not the issue here trust me on that one. In the short time that RDU-DEN was in operation I flew on these flights a total of 16 flights (8 roundtrips). I decided to keep a record of how many pax were on each flight and the lowest pax load was 51.

If indeed it was overbooked all the time, then why did they cite demand as the sole reason? No wait, its a conspiracy against RDUYeah sure

Personal testaments are nice, but I'll take the copmany's word.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-14 07:54:28 and read 5988 times.

It's okay.. WN basically only serves their larger destiantions from RDU... BWI, BNA, TPA, MDW, LAS, PHX, MCO, PHL.. so I wouldn't really expect them to offer flights to some of their less dominating destiantions like MSY, ISP, IND, MCI, etc...

Cool that there are other Connection cities at MSY. A lot AE RJ non-hub/non-focus city flights from RDU are to otherwise mainline stations..

But boy oh boy.. MSY is a SHOCK!!!

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: RDUDDJI
Posted 2004-12-14 23:54:16 and read 5907 times.

"If indeed it was overbooked all the time, then why did they cite demand as the sole reason? No wait, its a conspiracy against RDU! Yeah sure

Personal testaments are nice, but I'll take the copmany's word."

Hmmm...the word of a bankrupt airline over multiple employees/pax who were actually involved with this flight. I would keep an open mind...

Did you expect UA to put out a press release and say:

"We are ending the DEN-RDU service due to the fact that we pissed off thousands of people by cramming them into a tiny RJ for a 4 hour (actual block RDUDEN) flight with minimal service. We also would like to apologize to the hundreds of people who were denied boarding on this flight because we were too stupid to realize that a 4 hour RJ flight would cause severe weight restrictions more days than not. We would also like to apologize to the thousands of pax on this flight who had to deal with the ridiculously poor on-time performance of these flights and. Finally we would also like to apologize to all of those pax who arrived without their bags due to the weight restriction."

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: LambertMan
Posted 2004-12-15 00:21:16 and read 5880 times.

If he would have said that he was working those flights, then I would value his input more. But otherwise like I said, I'll take the company's word.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-15 00:25:49 and read 5874 times.

But boy oh boy.. MSY is a SHOCK!!!

Not really.


MSY-RDU was right up there with MSY-MCI (now opping), MSY-MDW, MSY-SAT, and (as if you didn't know this was coming) MSY-Europe in the why the hell aren't these opping? category.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-15 00:26:23 and read 5873 times.

REGARDLESS of the reason, the flight is no longer offered at RDU. Nothing anyone of us can do about it. I mean, RDU lost 2 flights to ORD also. It's all drops in the bucket now.. time to stop looking in the past and look towards the future.. I'm sure RDU will get DEN again in the future..

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2004-12-15 00:37:45 and read 5866 times.

Fred, you forgot the long rumored MSY-SEA. How can you forget that one???? Over 320 pax/day baby!  Smile

In all seriousness, MSY-RDU will do just fine....and yes, RDU will see DEN service before too long....I can almost guarantee that it will be a future F9 route...there's just too much demand there to ignore totally...and since UA chose NOT to add a quality aircraft in the market, Frontier will once the time is right.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-15 01:05:23 and read 5837 times.

Thank me Lawd that is over...

Now.. what IS the reasoning behind this MSY flight.. it is a non-hub, non-focu city flight.. there are no connecting options in RDU for other DL passengers/flights.. it seems to be a purely O&D route.... I didn't think DL did non-hub, non-focus city flights.. or is this part of their new transformation plan?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2004-12-15 02:53:32 and read 5779 times.

I think Delta just saw a market that has decent but not overwhelming O&D traffic and does currently does not receive nonstop service. MSY is a much demanded destination for RDU flyers...and vice versa. Delta just seems to be connecting the dots here, which is not really a bad thing. They would not have added this route if they did not see potential in it.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2004-12-15 05:45:07 and read 5713 times.

"We are ending the DEN-RDU service due to the fact that we pissed off thousands of people by cramming them into a tiny RJ for a 4 hour (actual block RDUDEN) flight with minimal service. We also would like to apologize to the hundreds of people who were denied boarding on this flight because we were too stupid to realize that a 4 hour RJ flight would cause severe weight restrictions more days than not. We would also like to apologize to the thousands of pax on this flight who had to deal with the ridiculously poor on-time performance of these flights and. Finally we would also like to apologize to all of those pax who arrived without their bags due to the weight restriction."

AUS-IAD and AUS-SFO launched at the same time, are just as long (AUS-SFO is actually longer), use the same aircraft, and are still operating.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-15 06:13:51 and read 5695 times.

Fred, you forgot the long rumored MSY-SEA. How can you forget that one????

Ah yes, a thousand pardons.

Hope someone beats WN to that route too... (*cough cough)




it seems to be a purely O&D route

That it is... about the only thing DL has to assist the O&D is the significant number of SkyMiles in this are.

I truly hope this flight is successful; if so, perhaps we'll see the return of MSY-PNS

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-15 06:14:06 and read 5690 times.

Again.. let me say.. the DEN discussion needs to be over.. it's gone.. let it go! Move on.. next subject.. it's not coming back on UAX.. let it die..

Regardless if it was low yield, low demand, crappy service, poor performance, or just lost cause.. it's gone..

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: Dsuairptman
Posted 2004-12-15 06:55:24 and read 5670 times.

RDU-MSY...hum... sounds like DL is a vulture awaiting the end of US and jumping in on one of the plumbest US routes, CLT-MSY (via RDU, for now...)

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,P
Username: RDUDDJI
Posted 2004-12-15 08:31:11 and read 5640 times.

"AUS-IAD and AUS-SFO launched at the same time, are just as long (AUS-SFO is actually longer), use the same aircraft, and are still operating."

AUS also has mainline UA service which makes a huge difference. UA abandoned RDU a long time ago... I believe the AUS SFO is only blocked 10 min longer.

"RDU lost 2 flights to ORD also"

This is standard for UA's seasonal reduction. Usually it's 5-6 early in the year, then 7 during summer, fall, early winter

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2004-12-15 16:19:39 and read 5611 times.

I truly hope this flight is successful; if so, perhaps we'll see the return of MSY-PNS

I don't think this route will comeback unless its a tag off another flight. However, most of the majors don't seem real fond of tags anymore. If WN ever entered PNS (not likely in the short term), then maybe they could do ORF-PNS-MSY or JAX-PNS-MSY...but even that might be pushing it.

The distance between the two cities is a little too short and easily driven. I wonder if BDL-MSY or CMH-MSY might work? Those cities would seem to have more potential (particularly for DL and its horde of RJ's).

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-15 19:54:06 and read 5558 times.

I wonder if BDL-MSY

I'd be skeptical about that one, as we've got AA to BOS, and a plethora of NYC carriers.

If anything for that region, I'd say WN from PVD would be more likely (and that's still pushin' it)





or CMH-MSY

Again, that'd be testy.... CO's 737 flights from N.Ohio to here got RJed-out, and they had feed; so doubt WN would try it. With no one's hub at CMH now, dunno how even RJs would do-- particularly seeing as we've got flights to CVG/CLE already.




Then again, WN's just been essentially handed five unused gates here.... so perhaps they'll do some unique (i.e., not to Texas/Florida!) expansion here sometime soon-- though Philadelphia and Chicao seem to have their utmost attention for the moment.

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-15 20:34:03 and read 5511 times.

Does anyone know if DLX is still going to build a maintenance hanger here at RDU? I heard rumors that they were and were going to add flight from here.. perhaps this is an example?

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2004-12-15 20:41:41 and read 5499 times.

Unless you mean Delta Connection cher, DLX is long-dead  Big grin

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-15 22:37:31 and read 5474 times.

yeah.. Delta Connection.. just easier to type DLX than the entire thang.. you know.. trying to get smart with me!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: DL To Start RDU-MSY,ATL-HKY,SIO More RDU-TPA,PIE
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2004-12-21 04:55:51 and read 5372 times.

I just chedked the Delta website..

seems all these additions have been added except for the 3rd additional flight RDU-TPA... has this addition been cancelled?


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