MCI 01/133 MCI AP CLSD

Flights diverting...

can I take a WILD guess and say American?!?! Good lord this is so odd, what the hell is wrong with the MD80's?!?!

Alex

Ding! We have a winner!

87 pax.. They've requested a bus to come get them off the aircraft...

OPNLguy-

Is it the flight from LGA? I went to flightarrivals.com and i dont see the airport closed or any "incidents" reported. where did you hear the info? What is going with the MD80's? Especially with American? Or is it possible that it is an ex TWA MD80? Maybe those have something to do with it?

Alex

Hmmm...we're getting a little snow here in KC, maybe and the winds are pretty calm...I wonder why they'd close the airport...they usually use 1/19, and we have an east and west runway, as well as 9/27...why wouldn't they continue operations on the "good" runway?

I doubt these problems are related to the MD80. It only sounds like it since American has over 300 MD80s flying. If anything happens, it's a greater chance to happen to the mad dog because of the greater numbers.

And I highly doubt that TWA birds have any more likelyhood of problems then the AA ones. TWA had some of the newest mad dogs.

Moman

>>> Is it the flight from LGA?

Don't know...


>>>I went to flightarrivals.com and i dont see the airport closed or any "incidents" reported.

Most of those sites are not necessarily updated up-to-the-hour, much less up-to-the-minute...


>>> where did you hear the info?

If I told you, I'd have to kill you...  
(,,and for the record, that's an expression, not a threat)  


Runway/airport should be re-opened about 0430Z/2230C

>>>why wouldn't they continue operations on the "good" runway?

Most likely, all the ARFF stuff is tied up with the incident aircraft, and not readily available for use...

OPNLguy- too late I already called the cops   hehe

Then id doubt itd be the flight from LGA.

Alex

If anything happens, it's a greater chance to happen to the mad dog because of the greater numbers.


Well, that doesn't explain WN's relative lack of incidents, despite having 300+ aircraft of the same type. And yes, I'm knocking on wood as I type this...

The one variable that jumps out is SOPs and the pilots' adherence to them. Perhaps there is a segment of training that is ambigious or currently not stressed highly enough in AA training.

I don't mean to criticize AA or their pilots, by the way. I just can't think of any other variable that would explain such a difference between AA and WN's recent luck (or lack therof).


2H4




P.S. - Atrude777, don't bother calling the cops on OPNL...he's already under surveillance for asking too many questions about covert DAL P-3 ops.  

AA1254:
A/CN227AA EQPS80 227
A/CN227AA EQPS80 227
PSVC
OVR MCI TO OMA ETA2200 OVER MCI ACCT AIRPORT CLOSED. FTWDP-JAY KNOWLTON
PRE0839
RON


Don't know a flight number for flight that went off.

P-3 ops? What P-3 ops?  

I know Jay Knowlton; great guy. He must have been busy...  

An AA S80 incident in MCI! What happened!?

No matter what happened, it is unacceptable to me... (mad)

of course I wanted to know what MCI airport looks like , so I did photo research...

Photos of MCI airport:

View Large View Medium Photo © Patrick McManus

View Large View Medium Photo © Jack Hannen

Did it slide off the runway attempting to turn off it or did it go off the end during landing roll out? When conditions are slick the MD80 has a tendency to slide the nose at all but the lowest of speeds due to its length and small nose wheels.

I just finished working three flights that diverted to STL as a result, very nearly cancelled altogether leaving us with a bloody mess (not to mention a near mutiny). Fortunately, they all made it to MCI by about 2am.

I just checked the DRUDGE REPORT, Fox News Channel and all three local TV news stations (ABC, NBC, CBS) in KC. They are not reporting anything

Where did you here this?

I just checked the DRUDGE REPORT, Fox News Channel and all three local TV news stations (ABC, NBC, CBS) in KC. They are not reporting anything

Where did you here this?

Opnlguy is a dispatcher. When it comes to aircraft incidences, they usually get the info before drudge, fox, or any network.

>I just checked the DRUDGE REPORT, Fox News Channel and all three local TV news stations (ABC, NBC, CBS) in KC. They are not reporting anything<

You really need to get a new news source

>>>I just checked the DRUDGE REPORT, Fox News Channel and all three local TV news stations (ABC, NBC, CBS) in KC. They are not reporting anything.

Recall that the media commonly subscribes to the notion that "if it bleeds, it leads", and conversely, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

From the index at the KC Star...

6. Smattering of snow snarls traffic on KCI runways and area roadways
By JOHN SHULTZ The Kansas City Star
Light snow glazed roads — and apparently runways — around the area Friday night, triggering a spate of wrecks and gumming up more than a few sets of early weekend plans. ... at Bannister Road. At Kansas City International Airport, an MD-80 passenger jet slipped off ...
Saturday, January 29, 2005 (KansasCity.com)


[Edited 2005-01-30 02:05:26]

2h4--

Isn't the M80 quite a bit longer than the 737 though?

The MD80 and DC-9 series are somewhat, notorious shall we say, for their ground handling. It's one of the reasons the bird's were dubbed, "the lead sled", this coming from an NW DC-9 pilot. I won't spectulate on the exact reason, the only thing I can think of is that because the aircraft is so tail-heavy it could cause poor traction on the nose wheel therefore making the aircraft somewhat more difficult to steer. Nonetheless these incidents do seem to be happening alot lately and I would think AA will be taking a look at their SOPs.

737-200 - 94' 0"
737-300 - 109' 7"
737-400 - 119' 7"
737-500 - 101' 9"
737-600 - 102' 6"
737-700 - 110' 4"
737-800 - 129' 6"
737-900 - 138' 2"

MD-80 - 147' 10"

A friend of mine at AA will probably move from 757/767 F/O to MD-80 Captain. I'll have to remind him to keep the plane on the pavement!

Didn't another AA M80 slide off a runway at PVD a few weeks ago? What gives? I see a change to their training program in the future...

AA M80 runway-related incidents

JFK (emergency landing)
LIT (thunderstorm landing)
PVD (overrun landing)
RDU? (stuck in mud during taxi)
DEN (landed short of runway)
ORD (bird strike shortly after take off)
ORD (slided off runway)
MCI (?)

I once heard from a NW DC-9 pilot that when they are taxiing on icy surfaces, they can actually make the plane move side to side by powering up each engine separatly. I understand this could have more of an impact on a 737 with thust line being so far from the fuselage, but not on a DC/MD aircraft. I would regard this pilots info as very accurate because he was a senior captain. Anyone else ever heard of this before?

WingnutMN

can I take a WILD guess and say American?!?! Good lord this is so odd, what the hell is wrong with the MD80's?!?!

My first thought as well. How many has that been? Five? Even the AE jet that went off the runway this winter was an AA pilot that flowed back to Captain after getting furloughed at mainline.....

********************************************************************************
** Report created 1/31/2005 Record 2 **
********************************************************************************

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: AAL498 Make/Model: MD83 Description: BOEING
Date: 01/29/2005 Time: 0302

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: KANSAS CITY State: MO Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AAL498, A BOEING MD 83 ACFT, SLID OFF THE SIDE OF THE RUNWAY AFTER LANDING,
NO INJURIES REPORTED, KANSAS CITY, MO

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:


OTHER DATA

Departed: Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:

FAA FSDO: KANSAS CITY, MO (CE05) Entry date: 01/31/2005

You guys are being rather critical of AA here, I can think of several instances in the past year of other airlines such as Delta and NW having aircraft run off a runway or taxiway in less than ideal weather conditions.

Well who own more of those types of airplanes? If there is a tendency in the plane, I would think the one with the most will notice it, eh?

2H4:

The MD-80 can get quite squirrelly on wet or icy surfaces. Even when going at a slow rate of speed.

LMP, that's one of the missing factors I was looking for. Thanks for the input.


2H4