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Topic: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Teahan
Posted 2005-02-25 23:25:50 and read 13107 times.

Strange time (late Friday evening) to confirm the order:

http://grupo.iberia.es/ingles/prensa...47-Renovacion%20flota%20ingles.doc

- 30 firm orders and 49 options
- Delivered between 2006 and 2011

Jeremiah

[Edited 2005-02-25 23:30:09]

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (incl. 18 A318s)
Username: NYC777
Posted 2005-02-25 23:27:05 and read 13034 times.

Oh well, I think everyone new were this one was going.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (incl. 18 A318s)
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-02-25 23:29:26 and read 13008 times.

Well this is good news.

Congratulations Iberia.

Drew

EDIT: wow " In the first case there will be 15 Airbus A318, nine A320 and six A321."

They also ordered A318's thats amazing.

[Edited 2005-02-25 23:31:29]

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Sunnyb
Posted 2005-02-25 23:35:01 and read 12946 times.

YES!!! More Airbus orders!!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: DIA
Posted 2005-02-25 23:36:06 and read 12919 times.

Very funny, Teahan. Laugh out loud I kinda thought your thread would be the survivor between an old a.netter's and a CREW a.netter's thread. And so it goes. . .

Anyhow, this is a pretty large order for Airbus. I wonder if IB will take all the options in time?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Iberia340600
Posted 2005-02-25 23:36:35 and read 12912 times.

Teahan:

You beat me to it! And my post got deleted already....wow that was quick!! I agree...strange time for it to be announced but....it was expected yesterday.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: SFOMEX
Posted 2005-02-25 23:37:40 and read 12887 times.

Welcome to the club IB!

Signed by

AF an MX, proud A318 users.



[Edited 2005-02-26 00:09:20]

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: CEO@AFG
Posted 2005-02-25 23:38:08 and read 12873 times.

Good choice Iberia, glad to see you didn't go "SAS" on your fleet!  Big thumbs up

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A32
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2005-02-25 23:38:21 and read 12867 times.

I guess Mr. Stonecipher needs to repeat the Dale Carnegie Course: "How to Win Friends and Influence People?"  Wink/being sarcastic

[Edited 2005-02-25 23:42:20]

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Iberia340600
Posted 2005-02-25 23:38:40 and read 12863 times.

Ooooh...Im excited! A318's in IB colors....thats awesome!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: DIA
Posted 2005-02-25 23:39:09 and read 12854 times.

Quoting SFOMEX (reply 6):
Welcome to the club IB!

Signed by

AF an MX, proudly A318 users.


Woah there! Don't forget F9!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-02-25 23:40:05 and read 12840 times.

How come there are no A319's ordered?

CFM will probably win the engine order huh?

Drew

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2005-02-25 23:40:57 and read 12827 times.

I am really glad that another airline decided to order A 318's!

Patrick

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Iberia340600
Posted 2005-02-25 23:42:56 and read 12805 times.

Interesting to note this excerpt from the press release:

"The negotiation process has been characterized by a strong competition and professionalism, which Iberia wants to highlight and thank to both manufacturers, Airbus and Boeing. The fleet renewal is a constant process and the Company will have to face the selection of future long haul aircraft, being Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 the most interesting options."

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Sabenapilot
Posted 2005-02-26 00:01:58 and read 12670 times.

Nice to see Airbus has found a new 'unexpected' customer found for the A318!

Coming to think of it, it was a bit strange the A318 was completely ignored in the speculations, because it does offer the right capacity to replace the Mad Dogs and makes sense in a soon-to-be all Airbus fleet like Iberia's.

Some things I find interesting to read in the press release:

The negotiation process has been characterized by strong competition and professionalism, which Iberia wants to highlight and thank both manufacturers, Airbus and Boeing, for.

That's the way to do it; maybe this time Boeing can refrain from throwing mud like a bad looser?

Our fleet renewal is a constant process and Iberia will have to face the selection of future long haul aircraft, being Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 as the most interesting options.

Wow, Iberia just signed a contract worth more than $4,500 million with Airbus and already we can start speculating what will be next for them: 787 or A350?! Although there won't be any doubt about which one will get it in the end I guess, since Iberia itself admits in their press release then will soon have a unique fleet composition, i.e. an all Airbus fleet, which will give great flexibility and lead to an improvement of both aircraft and crew productivity as well as a reduction in the need of spare parts, time and costs of crew training.

A question: is IB soon going to be the largest all Airbus airline in the world?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PHXinterrupted
Posted 2005-02-26 00:04:57 and read 12633 times.

To get a greater discount this time indicates Airbus NEEDED the order, and were willing to prostitute themselves to secure it. Empty slots don't do anyone any good. This wasn't a competitive order, little Boeing involvement, there was no need to hit the floor.

Look familiar? What's fair is fair.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MADtoCAE
Posted 2005-02-26 00:06:09 and read 12619 times.

I guess I'm goint to see many more A318's !!!!  Big thumbs up
Would like to see the colors on a 737...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Alitalia744
Posted 2005-02-26 00:06:34 and read 12614 times.

personally, this is my favorite portion of the press release...

"Total aircraft catalogue price amounts to more than $4,500 million, over which the Company has obtained important discounts. "

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PennPal
Posted 2005-02-26 00:11:06 and read 12597 times.

How true, Alitalia744...another apparent example of an order being won by unit cost, rather than unit capability...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Greasespot
Posted 2005-02-26 00:19:32 and read 12531 times.

Alitalia744 and Pennpal that discount is different from the Ryanair discounts in what way?

gS

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2005-02-26 00:20:16 and read 12526 times.

I wonder if IB's decision to order A318s will have an impact on their regional affiliate Air Nostrum's plans to convert CRJ200 options into CRJ900s. Perhaps IB wants to keep the 80-100 seat market to themselves and let Air Nostrum continue to fly 50-seaters only...

The CRJ200/900 decision is up next on IB's agenda, isn't it? March or May...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Rj111
Posted 2005-02-26 00:21:49 and read 12516 times.

The two planes are very similar in capability and any advantage the 737 has is probably more than negated through the cost of adding/operating a new fleet type. If Boeing had won this order you would have seen significant discounts too.

It will be nice to see the A318 flying around Europe in IB's scheme.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Sabenapilot
Posted 2005-02-26 00:23:04 and read 12515 times.

And already it starts..... Big grin

Saw the news FR got MORE THAN 50% discount on their planes?
And guess were they come from? indeed, BOEING!

Besides, EADS is making money with HEAPS, so discounting?: Yes, suffering from it? Hardly.

BTW, just heard the last minute shift from the widely speculated A319s to the somewhat cheaper A318s did the trick for Airbus. Confirmation anybody?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Anxebla
Posted 2005-02-26 00:35:16 and read 12449 times.

Marvellous!! This is the Iberia which I like very much!!! IB & AIRBUS! Well done, IB! IB and the A320 family... the natural IB's choice for the short/medium haul.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: AirFRNT
Posted 2005-02-26 00:44:57 and read 12384 times.

Well done to Airbus and IB. I would be curious what the last offer sheet from Boeing and Airbus looked like.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Scorpio
Posted 2005-02-26 00:47:47 and read 12375 times.

Quoting PHXinterrupted (reply 15):
To get a greater discount this time indicates Airbus NEEDED the order, and were willing to prostitute themselves to secure it. Empty slots don't do anyone any good. This wasn't a competitive order, little Boeing involvement, there was no need to hit the floor.


No doubt you'll now point out to us where it says they got a 50% + discount, like what was reported for FR. After that, you can explain to us how this was 'not a competitive order' after the reports of Boeing having very much been 'in the race' to get this order themselves.

Don't compare this to the FR order, it's apples and oranges.

But then again, you weren't interested in the facts at all, were you? All you were interested in was making another uninformed oneliner post on you favorite fetish... Nothing new there.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MIASkies
Posted 2005-02-26 00:48:25 and read 12363 times.

Why even bother placing this thread? surprise surprise hahahaha
now can we get an exciting order next time guys?

anyway congrats to IB and Airbus.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: A999
Posted 2005-02-26 01:01:32 and read 12299 times.

This looks more and more like a kindergarten!
Regarding both the FR and IB orders, they were certainly most wanted by both A and B, but no surprise, really???

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-02-26 01:01:52 and read 12297 times.

why just 30 planes when they intend to replace over 50 aircraft?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Danny
Posted 2005-02-26 01:24:09 and read 12219 times.

"To get a greater discount this time indicates Airbus NEEDED the order, and were willing to prostitute themselves to secure it. Empty slots don't do anyone any good. This wasn't a competitive order, little Boeing involvement, there was no need to hit the floor."


What a childish crap. Read about the price RYR got for their 738.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2005-02-26 01:32:00 and read 12183 times.

Who the hell cares about the discounts! There was no way in hell Boeing was going to get this order, and they knew better than any of us. Congrats to Iberia and Airbus, but get over the price...it's all business in the end.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Howard500
Posted 2005-02-26 01:39:02 and read 12150 times.

I would have loved to see 737NG's in IB colours but the decision was obvious and made with good, logical business sense and so they chose Airbus. So, congratulations to both IB & Airbus.

However I do hope to see future Boeing models in IB colours, it would be sad not to. The 787 would look amazing with IB!!

Anyway dont turn this into the usual bash between..... its just business, not pleasure

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Aither
Posted 2005-02-26 01:39:58 and read 12143 times.

If we do a comparison with the Ryanair order here, what's more interesting with IB is the fact they need new long hauls aircraft. This order should give Airbus a -small- advantage.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: B707Stu
Posted 2005-02-26 02:05:37 and read 12069 times.

Iberia order isn't a surprise. I think the surprise will be when they order the 787.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: SNATH
Posted 2005-02-26 02:10:38 and read 12047 times.

The only surprise here is the A318.

As for long haul aircraft, Airbus will get that one too. The only thing Boeing will do by bidding for it is to ensure that Airbus gets less money from IB... Oh well.

Udo, I guess I can't make fun of you now.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Cheers.

Tony

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Anxebla
Posted 2005-02-26 02:48:15 and read 11966 times.

Quoting Howard500 (reply 31):
However I do hope to see future Boeing models in IB colours, it would be sad not to


Is sad seeing CO and DL with no Airbus aircrafts on their fleets as well!


Quoting SNATH (reply 34):
The only thing Boeing will do by bidding for it is to ensure that Airbus gets less money from IB...


AMEN to that, hahahaha

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-02-26 04:49:42 and read 11566 times.

C'mon...most of knew that IB would go with Airbus.......congrats to Airbus for the victory, but Boeing will be back...and hopefully they will get the Malaysia order and the LOT order, but I think LOT will go to Airbus.

I doubt IB will go with the 787, most probably A350..

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Yyz717
Posted 2005-02-26 05:51:19 and read 11370 times.

The only surprise here is the A318.

I agree. The ASM costs for a largely leisure carrier such as IB will kill them.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2005-02-26 06:08:19 and read 11313 times.

I'm not surprised that IB is ordering new A320 Family planes. After all, IB is already flying a fleet of them and also a good fraction of every Airbus plane has Spanish-built parts. If IB had bought new 737NG's there would have been a riot breaking out from the Spanish partner of EADS....

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Bronko
Posted 2005-02-26 06:11:07 and read 11303 times.

Quoting Yyz717 (reply 37):
I agree. The ASM costs for a largely leisure carrier such as IB will kill them.


How does the ASM cost for the 319 compare to the 318? Does it balance with the lower aquisition cost of the 318 to the 319?

YYZ717: I noticed in your profile that you are a fan of "downhill" skiiing. What is wrong with uphill skiing?  Smile

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: ETStar
Posted 2005-02-26 06:31:21 and read 11254 times.

Congrats to Airbus on this one.

Boeing supporters, it's ok, B got orders this week too...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: B752fanatic
Posted 2005-02-26 06:48:24 and read 11210 times.

I think is so stupid to believe that IB will think of purchasing the 787.

I really think that Boeing wont play the game with them, no more.

Iberia will continue its plans of ALL Airbus, and there is absolutely no doubt about that, its the most wise economical decision to become all Airbus, this order doesnt surprise no one.

Congrats to Airbus, but I hardly think they will lead in orders this year.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: AM773
Posted 2005-02-26 07:00:23 and read 11183 times.

Good for IB!!!, and as SFO said, welcome to the A318 club... they just asked for a membership!!! Big grin

Cheers,

AM773

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Aerokiwi
Posted 2005-02-26 08:52:12 and read 10942 times.

Nice one Udo.

It's no secret the A318 is far from cheap to operate compared to the alternatives available.

So you better hope you have high yielding pax to cover it.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Brons2
Posted 2005-02-26 09:18:45 and read 10861 times.

Why in the world would they buy after the A318 was substituted? Yes the unit cost may be cheaper but the operating CASM will be higher than the A319. I'd suggest converting those orders to A319.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-02-26 09:25:20 and read 10831 times.

Sorry guy's , but IB got a Good Price for Very good planes, i mean don't expect every narrow body order to be a Boeing order because airbus didn't received that much orders this year compared to boeing...


and about the A318, it makes more sense than introduce the 737-600, ERJ-190, 717 because they all have expensive operation costs compared to theire capicity, but they don't have to train whole new pilots for the A318 since they can use existing A321/20/19 pilots...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A32
Username: Sebolino
Posted 2005-02-26 09:52:38 and read 10724 times.

How true, Alitalia744...another apparent example of an order being won by unit cost, rather than unit capability...

Oh yeah, I forgot that Airbus builds only bad planes, contrary to the mighty American Boeing ...

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: B707Stu
Posted 2005-02-26 10:05:14 and read 10675 times.

Now, now, now kids... Though I'm more a B than A guy I need to tell the B people something here. Best internal European flight I've ever had was an IB A-320 BCN-MAN. Incredibly comfortable, excellent seats, superb food, best cabin staff. Was a pure delight and completely changed my opinion of IB (previous flights and service was awful). IB knows what they're doing and though I'm a Boeing guy I heartfully acknowledge the A-320 family success. It's well deserved.

Having said that, the 777 and upcoming 787 will blow the A-340 off the map and threaten the strong A-380 initial showing. I've ridden the T777 and the A340 numerous times. The A-340 doesn't come close in comfort, quiet and overall flying experience. One more thing, let's not forget IB is looking at eventual merger possibilities with BA, who's leaning Airbus on short-haul service, at least.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Columba
Posted 2005-02-26 10:14:56 and read 10630 times.

Oh man, unbelievable the stubborness of the A cheerers and the B cheerers.
But I agree, the only surpriss on this is order is the A318. It is good to see that it got some more orders -although I am not a huge A318 fan, though.
Will this A318 be PW powered ? This order makes perfectly sense for IB.

Anyway the sad news is not that Boeing was not chosen but that the Mad Dogs will leave the fleet soon and will be gone with the European major carriers after SAS will phase them out, too. So that will only leave mostly 737s and A320 family on European Skies. Kind of boring isn´t it !!!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Leskova
Posted 2005-02-26 10:20:50 and read 10606 times.

True, it's really not a big surprise to see IB ordering from Airbus - but it's a good order nonetheless... and it's not one bit less of a surprise than Ryanair's B737 order was...


Quoting B707Stu (reply 50):
the 777 and upcoming 787 will blow the A-340 off the map and threaten the strong A-380 initial showing


Since the B777 hasn't done that so far, I seriously doubt it will do so in the future - but the B787, combined with the A350, will most likely be the end of the A340-300. As for the A380 (and, for that much, the introduction of the A340, B777, B787 and any other comparison of A and B planes)... please let's keep that can of worms (the re-re-re-repeat of the usual B787/A380 comparison on here) closed!

Quoting B707Stu (reply 50):
The A-340 doesn't come close in comfort, quiet and overall flying experience.


Though it's really not the topic of this thread - I can only wholeheartedly disagree, also after having flown several segments on B777s and A340s...

Regards,
Frank

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A32
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-02-26 10:27:48 and read 10574 times.

Quoting B707Stu (reply 50):
Having said that, the 777 and upcoming 787 will blow the A-340 off the map and threaten the strong A-380 initial showing.


The A340-300 is already almost dead, but the -500/600 series won't be blown off the map anytime soon. Though B777-200LR and B777-300ER offer superior performance, the A340 will remain an attractive choice for certain airlines.
And why would B777 and B787 threaten the A380? They are no rivals at all.


Quoting B707Stu (reply 50):
I've ridden the T777 and the A340 numerous times. The A-340 doesn't come close in comfort, quiet and overall flying experience.


No question the B777 is definitely the first choice for me as well. However, the A340's cabin is clearly quieter than the B777's. And comfort depends on the airline's configuration. Sitting in the 2-5-2 middle seat is far from being comfortable - and the window rows in 2-4-2 are a clearly better choice than in 3-3-3. At least for people travelling alone or in pairs.


Quoting Columba (reply 51):
Will this A318 be PW powered ? This order makes perfectly sense for IB.


IB's current A32X are CFM powered, so I expect the same for the A318. I doubt the PW-version will have a bright future...


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: LifelinerOne
Posted 2005-02-26 10:34:03 and read 10552 times.

Quoting RayChuang (reply 38):
If IB had bought new 737NG's there would have been a riot breaking out from the Spanish partner of EADS....


No CASA won't make any noice about it, as they know Iberia is a private company and not obligated to order Airbus. Why can't you people understand that European airlines can buy anything they want?

And what if CASA raised his voice? Iberia would just shrugged and moved on. They don't have to explain themselves to CASA.

Cheers!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Osteogenesis
Posted 2005-02-26 10:36:19 and read 10542 times.

Quoting B707Stu (reply 50):
Having said that, the 777 and upcoming 787 will blow the A-340 off the map and threaten the strong A-380 initial showing.


What about the A330 and A350? The latter having a great potential against both the 777 and the 787.

The A380 has already been very successful in one important aspect: It has killed the airplane that gave Boeing a constant and easy money income over many years.

Many people forget this when they start their hub-hub and hub - no hub discussions.

One of the main goals of Airbus with the A380 is to have a competing product in this market which was a monopoly for by Boeing.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-26 10:43:39 and read 10510 times.

Aerokiwi:

Quoting Aerokiwi (reply 44):
It's no secret the A318 is far from cheap to operate compared to the alternatives available.


You'd better tell that to Frontier. About a year ago, Sean Menke, of Frontier, did an interview about the A318 and said that its unit costs were consistently lower than the A319.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-02-26 10:47:04 and read 10488 times.

Quoting Osteogenesis (reply 55):
The A380 has already been very successful in one important aspect: It has killed the airplane that gave Boeing a constant and easy money income over many years.


The A380 did not kill the B747-400. The B744 (pax) has been selling slowly for many years now, mainly because airlines replaced older B747 models with more efficient B777s or A340s.
It has to be seen if Airbus will be able to make as much money out of the A380 like Boeing did with the B747.

Btw, Boeing's cash cow is the B777 now, and I expect the same for the B787.


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-26 10:58:05 and read 10443 times.

Quoting Sabenapilot (reply 14):
Nice to see Airbus has found a new 'unexpected' customer found for the A318


That is the best, A318 placed with a "Blue Chip" customer and I too, saw no mention of this during the sales campaign so it's great to see a win for the A318. I just hope IB don't change their livery by the time it arrives.

At least it was, to me, a fair and open contest and the timing of the announcement was unusual indeed but better that than having to wait. Congratulations to IB and Airbus for closing the deal.

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-02-26 13:06:52 and read 10029 times.

just one question, how do the manage to replace well over the 50 aircraft with only 30 new busses?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-02-26 13:17:12 and read 9986 times.

Quoting MauriceB (reply 59):
just one question, how do the manage to replace well over the 50 aircraft with only 30 new busses?


"Options" is the magic word...


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-26 13:23:43 and read 9949 times.

Quoting MauriceB (reply 59):
just one question, how do the manage to replace well over the 50 aircraft with only 30 new busses?


The 49 Options they also took. Despite recent production increases delivery slots for A32X Series are still very tight. I assume the 30 firm meet their initial requirement and the Options will enabled them to secure the necessary delivery slots as and when is needed. This is one of the biggest commitments that IB has made so it'll be interesting to watch the progress of the option conversions over time which should ultimately cover their requirement for 50 and any planned growth.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Solnabo
Posted 2005-02-26 13:56:45 and read 9816 times.

Congratulation Iberia  Big thumbs up

Love to see 318 in youre fleet!

Micke/SE

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mygind66
Posted 2005-02-26 14:55:53 and read 9597 times.

..

Renewing the fleet is marvelous but it's time to have the airplanes cleaned and to change the way Iberia's cabin crew treat the people. IMHO 2 important things that IB hardly sees....

All the best

Enrique Ferrer
Mallorca
Spain

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Glideslope
Posted 2005-02-26 15:10:42 and read 9526 times.

Quoting Udo (reply 57):
The A380 did not kill the B747-400. The B744 (pax) has been selling slowly for many years now, mainly because airlines replaced older B747 models with more efficient B777s or A340s.
It has to be seen if Airbus will be able to make as much money out of the A380 like Boeing did with the B747.



The 747 could continue to make profits as the 747-Adv. Don't write it off as dead yet. There is a large opportunity if the 380 does not live up to it's claims. If the 380 delivers the 747 will go away IMO. Only time will tell.  Smile

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: LX23
Posted 2005-02-26 15:12:54 and read 9517 times.

Quoting Yyz717 (reply 37):
I agree. The ASM costs for a largely leisure carrier such as IB will kill them


The funny thing is that this "largely leisure" airline has a HUGE business sector following throughout Europe, and is by far not the cheaest airline. Everyone that has seen me post on IB knows that I bash IB on Intercontinental flights, but make no mistake about it: within Europe (and that's the market the A318 will serve), IB is just about the best airline there is, and pax willingly pay for this great service. Expect the A318 to go to high-yield, low-pax routes.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: GKirk
Posted 2005-02-26 15:19:58 and read 9484 times.

I think everyone knew IB would order more Airbusses, but I wasnt expecting A318s  Wow!

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: KLMA330
Posted 2005-02-26 15:40:38 and read 9413 times.

Way to go Airbus!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Jopavon
Posted 2005-02-26 16:59:25 and read 9134 times.

The babybus would probably be used for the MAD-BCN air shuttle at some times of the day (remember AVE will give IB more competition) and then to open new nonstop destinations from MAD & BCN.

Nice big, all Airbus fleet.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MADtoCAE
Posted 2005-02-26 17:31:01 and read 8969 times.

Quoting Jopavon (reply 65):
Nice big, all Airbus fleet

Don't forget the 744's (TF-AMA/B)  Big grin

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2005-02-26 17:57:50 and read 8837 times.

Quoting Bronko (reply 39):


How does the ASM cost for the 319 compare to the 318? Does it balance with the lower aquisition cost of the 318 to the 319?


According to Frontier, the lower trip costs of the A318 offset the slightly (and I do mean very slightly) higher seat mile costs.

And, as has been said a million times, the extra seats of the 319 are only of value if filled.

N

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-02-26 18:10:25 and read 8772 times.

Quoting B707Stu (reply 33):
I think the surprise will be when they order the 787.


Can't help but nitpick here, but I think you meant: if they order the 787 rather than when - as they will be taking into account both the A350 and 787.

/Milan320

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Lockheed1011
Posted 2005-02-26 19:27:48 and read 8496 times.

We knew that! Iberia = Airbus Those are not news.  Sad

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Osteogenesis
Posted 2005-02-26 19:32:28 and read 8462 times.

Quoting Lockheed1011 (reply 69):
Iberia = Airbus


That is not true.

Delta = Boeing?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MADtoCAE
Posted 2005-02-26 21:08:46 and read 8180 times.

Quoting Lockheed1011 (reply 69):
Iberia = Airbus

Read reply 66

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2005-02-26 22:03:39 and read 7959 times.

From the article:
Finally, it is worth noting that Iberia will have to take the decision about the engines that will equip these aircraft among the models CFM (General Electric and SNECMA), IAE (Rolls Royce, Pratt & Whitney and others) or Pratt & Whitney (in the case of the A318).
Interesting, since their current fleet uses CFM's...

I wonder if they're doing this just to lower the price of the CFM-56's... (Most likely). However, Pratt would kill to get another pw6000 customer.  Big thumbs up

I'll join the chorus surprised on the A318 sales. The baby bus lives!

Udo: your replies continue to be well spoken.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-02-26 23:35:59 and read 7742 times.

Quoting Gigneil (reply 67):
And, as has been said a million times, the extra seats of the 319 are only of value if filled.


A million times said, then, is a million times wrong.

They're also of value if the time comes to sell the airplane. The A318 is a marginalised model with less per-seat value than its siblings.

The A319 is also of value for an airline that wants to keep cargo container interline. The A318 can't do it.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PlaneSmart
Posted 2005-02-26 23:43:37 and read 7730 times.

Perhaps the A318's included some white tails?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Anxebla
Posted 2005-02-27 03:09:32 and read 7627 times.

Quoting B707Stu (reply 47):
Though I'm more a B than A guy I need to tell the B people something here. Best internal European flight I've ever had was an IB A-320 BCN-MAN. Incredibly comfortable, excellent seats, superb food, best cabin staff. Was a pure delight and completely changed my opinion of IB


 Smile Me gusta hacer amigos norteamericanos que no tengan la menta ultra-cerrada. (If you can't speak Spanish, e-mail me and I'll tell the English translation)


Quoting QFA001 (reply 73):
They're also of value if the time comes to sell the airplane. The A318 is a marginalised model with less per-seat value than its siblings.


I agree with this statement.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-27 03:17:46 and read 7613 times.

PlaneSmart:

There are no white tail A318's. They are made as required, slotted into the A319 line.

There's one airline, Frontier, that would have their hand very high in the air for some white tails if any existed.

They have already said they want more, and have indicated their next fleet contract will include some A318's.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2005-02-27 06:18:40 and read 7536 times.

Quoting Mariner (reply 76):
They have already said they want more, and have indicated their next fleet contract will include some A318's


Really? wow! Do you have a link or just the pulse of Frontier. I happen to like the baby bus.  Smile

Quoting QFA001 (reply 73):
The A319 is also of value for an airline that wants to keep cargo container interline. The A318 can't do it.


Very true. Shortening the bus required shrinking the cargo doors below the container size... But with airlines who hand load anyway...

Personally, I think the pw6000A will improve the A318 economics even more... but I'm biased.  Big grin
Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-02-27 07:28:37 and read 7509 times.

Quoting Lightsaber (reply 77):
Personally, I think the pw6000A will improve the A318 economics even more...


"Even more" than worst is still bad. Big grin

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-27 08:04:24 and read 7491 times.

Lightsaber:

Yes, there is a link, but it a hefty one - the latest SEC filing from Frontier:

http://www.frontierairlines.com/about/sec/10q1204/10q1204.htm

You have to wade through a whole bunch of stuff to arrive at the critical point - Frontier intends "to lease from third party lessors an additional 10 A318 or A319 aircraft."

This is separate from and in addition to the ongoing contract with Airbus for A319's up to and including 2007.

We are also coming to the point where Frontier will need to place a new order with Airbus, for deliveries beyond 2007.

The CEO has publicly said the fleet "will continue to be a mix of A318 and A319 aircraft".

Frontier is very pleased with the A318, which can fly just about any route in the Frontier system (I'm not sure about DEN/ANC, but it used to do LAX/PHL). I don't know if it is still in the archives here, but about a year (?) ago, Sean Menke did an interview with an airline magazine endorsing their attitude to the plane.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-27 10:15:29 and read 7429 times.

Quoting PlaneSmart (reply 74):
Perhaps the A318's included some white tails?


I would agree with Mariner, to the best of my knowledge there are no white tail A318s available. However, given that they mention their intended use of Operating Leases. ILFC have 10 A318 yet to be placed. Also, below an excerpt from an America West press release dated May 27th 2004 with regard to their A318 order.

In the context of this incremental order, America West also secured extensive flexibility from Airbus with respect to its existing A318 order, allowing the airline to better react to market conditions by enabling it to amend its 15 A318 delivery positions to A319s and A320s, if it so desires, or to no additional aircraft under certain conditions

I have not seen too much more from HP since this amendment so that could have changed, though if not, it does present an opportunity for IB to get some good 2006 delivery slots if HP convert to A319 or A320, or, even Frontier for that matter given what Mariner posted.

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-27 10:37:10 and read 7407 times.

PANAM_DC10:

Given that there is no separate, dedicated A318 production line, there are no specific A318 slots. Airbus fits the A318 into the A319 production line as they are needed.

So to convert HP A318 slots to A319 slots is - basically - paperwork.

The HP situation was further complicated by the troubles attending the PW engine.

When the PW problems arose, all the airlines were given the choice of waiting for the rejigged PW (which HP originally did, for delivery commencing 2006) or convert to the CFM - which Frontier did, thus becoming the launch customer.

So the "new" HP A318 slots were only ever "pencil" dates.

As to ILFC, I had heard that they were going to convert all their A318 orders to other A319. If they have retained 10, then it is entirely possible - even probable - that they are in discussion with either Iberia or Frontier, or both.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2005-02-27 10:53:44 and read 7386 times.

Mariner, thanks. There is some good stuff in that link, for instance:
During the nine months ended December 31, 2004, the Company borrowed $22,000,000 for the purchase of one Airbus A318 aircraft. later in the article: We applied pre-delivery payments totaling $6,412,000 for the purchase of an Airbus A318 aircraft to the purchase of that aircraft
$28.412 million for an A318 ? Yeah sure wow that's cheap!  Smile I couldn't figure out the A319 cost as there was a spare engine transaction tied to the pair.

and: Mainline CASM excluding fuel and special items for the three months ended December 31, 2004 and 2003 was 6.40¢ and 6.81¢, a decrease of .41¢, or 6.0%.
And yet they lost money. It looks life fuel is really hurting F9.

Quoting QFA001 (reply 78):

"Even more" than worst is still bad
PHHHHHHTTTT!!! Trust me, you wouldn't have liked the first three Monte Python quotes that came to mind!  Laugh out loud Viva la pw6000!

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PlaneSmart
Posted 2005-02-27 11:29:05 and read 7337 times.

A number of the A318's were scheduled in production for another customer, others were scheduled on a speculative basis and the balance are unscheduled (new for customer).

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-02-27 11:35:56 and read 7327 times.

Quoting Lightsaber (reply 82):
$28.412 million for an A318 ? wow that's cheap!


It's not much different to the prices that Ryanair allegedly paid for their recent order of much larger 737s, so what's your gripe?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: RootsAir
Posted 2005-02-27 12:08:18 and read 7285 times.

The only goo news for this is that IB has ordered the A318 ! Its a shame its become an all airbus fleet. There again it shows a EURO airliner supporting AIRBUS. Hope they'll go for the 787... I'll miss boeing on IB

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Leskova
Posted 2005-02-27 12:28:57 and read 7263 times.

Quoting RootsAir (reply 85):
There again it shows a EURO airliner supporting AIRBUS.


So what? As soon as you complain about AA, DL or CO ordering more Boeings, that's when I (and probably quite a lot of others) will start taking comments like this one serious...

Regards,
Frank

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-27 12:49:39 and read 7229 times.

Lightsaber:

Frontier became, by default, the launch customer for the A318, and so they got the launch customer discount.

It applied to the first five aircraft, but they don't get that discount on any future orders.

The A319's are costing, from memory, between $36 and $38 million.

PlaneSmart:

Sorry, but no A318's have been built on a speculative basis, nor have any been built for "another customer" other than the airline that ordered them.

The only change was at the time of the PW engine crisis, when airlines were allowed to either stay with the PW, and thus delayed delivery, to switch to the CFM or to change their orders to ther A320 family. But this was before the prototype was built.

It is easy to follow the history of the aircraft in the photo database.

There are the two prototypes, one now equipped with the PW engines. From then on, every A318 has an assigned livery, with the first out of the paintshop being, obviously, Frontier.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: RootsAir
Posted 2005-02-27 12:56:59 and read 7213 times.

Quoting Leskova (reply 86):
So what? As soon as you complain about AA, DL or CO ordering more Boeings, that's when I (and probably quite a lot of others) will start taking comments like this one serious...


Same goes to them....they should chose on which would be the best aircraft and sorry to say there is a biase on chosing the airliners that your country/region is from

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Leskova
Posted 2005-02-27 13:02:18 and read 7203 times.

Quoting RootsAir (reply 88):
Same goes to them....they should chose on which would be the best aircraft and sorry to say there is a biase on chosing the airliners that your country/region is from


And how do you know that IB hasn't done just that?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-27 15:42:18 and read 7112 times.

Quoting Mariner (reply 81):
Given that there is no separate, dedicated A318 production line, there are no specific A318 slots. Airbus fits the A318 into the A319 production line as they are needed.

So to convert HP A318 slots to A319 slots is - basically - paperwork.


Thank you Mariner, A question if I may. I assume an A318 conversion to A320 would be different though and involve taking an A320 Production slot? Also, ILFC have not converted their A318 order to another model, yet.



Quoting PlaneSmart (reply 83):
A number of the A318's were scheduled in production for another customer, others were scheduled on a speculative basis and the balance are unscheduled (new for customer).


Without going too far off topic, here is a brief overview of the A318 orderbook and delivery schedule.

Total ordered 61, as follows;

15 Air France 9 delivered
15 America West 0 delivered, Refer reply #80
5 Frontier (direct from Airbus) though 7 delivered
12 GECAS 7 delivered (5 Mexicana & 2 Frontier)
10 ILFC 0 delivered, refer reply #81
4 Tarom 0 delivered

Once IB signs we'll be able to add their 15 to the total too.

PlaneSmart, Can you please name the "another customer" I don't believe there is one. Also Airbus do not build any model "on a speculative basis", period. With respect, my opinion differs to yours. IB will not be taking any white tail A318s because, to the best of my knowledge, there are none.

Regards



[Edited 2005-02-27 15:52:02]

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-02-27 15:56:18 and read 7091 times.

Folks,

when will this ridiculous arguing about list prices ever end ?

A list price is a list price is a list price.

It is just some numbers on a sheet of paper.

If I was a manufacturer I would add another 20 or 30% to my list price just to give the Michael O'Leary's of the world the short-sighted satisfaction that I have given a 50, 60, 70% discount. In the end all what matters are "production costs + X" and this is a) nowhere near my list price and b) nothing I will ever let anybody else know.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PM
Posted 2005-02-27 16:02:55 and read 7079 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (reply 90):
I assume an A318 conversion to A320 would be different though and involve taking an A320 Production slot?


Unless I've missed something, 318s, 319s and 321s are built in Hamburg but 320s are still assembled in Toulouse. So if all 320 slots were taken for, say, a year, then yes, it would not be straightforward to take a 320 instead of a 318. On the other hand, there's a degree of swapping going on all the time between the four models and customers have been known to want to delay or accelerate deliveries so I doubt if it would be that big a deal. Certainly not for a small number of aircraft.

BA swapped their 318s for 321s, didn't they? (Yes, coming off the same line.)

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-27 16:43:39 and read 7018 times.

Quoting PM (reply 92):
318s, 319s and 321s are built in Hamburg but 320s are still assembled in Toulouse.


Thank you, 2 assembly lines, that was why I asked. BA may well have converted their A318 to A321 (agree, same line) though construction did not commence on any of their A318s.

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A32
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-02-27 17:20:57 and read 7014 times.

Quoting Glideslope (reply 61):
The 747 could continue to make profits as the 747-Adv. Don't write it off as dead yet. There is a large opportunity if the 380 does not live up to it's claims. If the 380 delivers the 747 will go away IMO. Only time will tell.


I haven't written off the B747ADV yet, but the B744 pax is definitely dead.


Quoting RootsAir (reply 85):
The only goo news for this is that IB has ordered the A318 ! Its a shame its become an all airbus fleet


First of all, it's not certain that they go for an all Airbus fleet. Second, what would be so wrong about it?


Quoting RootsAir (reply 85):
There again it shows a EURO airliner supporting AIRBUS.


Oh, the usual blahblahblah. Now let's see, what about all these EURO carriers. How do they fit into your little theory?

- Air Europa B738?
- Air France B744ERF, B772ER, B773ER?
- Air Horizons B738?
- Alitalia B772ER?
- Blue Panorama B787?
- Braathens B73G?
- Britannia B738?
- British Airways B772/ER?
- Eurocypria B738?
- Excel Airways B738?
- First Choice B787?
- Flyglobespan B738?
- Futura B738?
- Hamburg Int'l B73G?
- Hapag Lloyd B738?
- Helios B738?
- HLX B73G?
- Inter Airlines B738?
- KLM B738, B739, B772?
- Lauda Air B73G, B738, B772ER?
- Luxair B73G?
- Maersk B73G?
- Malev B736, B73G, B738?
- Neos B738?
- Pegasus B738?
- Ryanair B738?
- SAS B736, B73G, B738?
- Sky Airlines B738?
- Sterling B738?
- Sun Express B738?
- Tarom B73G?
- Transavia B738?
- Travel Service B738?
- TUI Belgium B738?
- Turkish B738?

And now?  Laugh out loud


Quoting RootsAir (reply 88):
Same goes to them....they should chose on which would be the best aircraft and sorry to say there is a biase on chosing the airliners that your country/region is from


I hope you don't mean Germany...


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-02-27 19:40:44 and read 6883 times.

Quoting Udo (reply 94):
Oh, the usual blahblahblah. Now let's see, what about all these EURO carriers. How do they fit into your little theory?

- Air Europa B738?
- Air France B744ERF, B772ER, B773ER?
- Air Horizons B738?
- Alitalia B772ER?
- Blue Panorama B787


Udo, you forgot to add LOT which is besides it's Embraers have 737s and 767s ... hopefully not for long though Big grin

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Sebolino
Posted 2005-02-27 19:44:54 and read 6878 times.

Quoting RootsAir (reply 85):
The only goo news for this is that IB has ordered the A318 ! Its a shame its become an all airbus fleet. There again it shows a EURO airliner supporting AIRBUS.




Oh my God ! A European airlines dares to buy an European plane ! What a scandal.

Rootsair, in which fantasy are you living ?

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-02-27 20:16:52 and read 6836 times.

Quoting Milan320 (reply 95):
Udo, you forgot to add LOT which is besides it's Embraers have 737s and 767s ... hopefully not for long though


Sure, I only listed the airlines with new Boeing types planned for long term operation. I left out all airlines flying only classics, or B747, B757, B767. Then the list would be looooooooong...  Wink/being sarcastic


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-02-27 20:49:58 and read 6801 times.

Quoting Udo (reply 97):
Sure, I only listed the airlines with new Boeing types planned for long term operation. I left out all airlines flying only classics, or B747, B757, B767.


Aha, I see. Danke, Udo
/Milan320

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: MD80Nut
Posted 2005-02-27 20:52:32 and read 6798 times.

Congratulations to Airbus for a very nice order, even if it isn't a surprise. Good to see another A318 operator too. Given their previous use of the A320 family it is the most logical move for them. Airbus A320 family operators seem to be a very loyal bunch, a credit to an excellent design, I think.

Speaking of A318s, it seems CFM engines are still the only ones being ordered. Does anybody have PW powered A318s on order, and if not, will there ever be?

Cheers, Ralph

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Mariner
Posted 2005-02-27 21:24:19 and read 6759 times.

PANAM_DC10:


Quoting PANAM_DC10 (reply 90):
I assume an A318 conversion to A320 would be different though and involve taking an A320 Production slot?


PM has basically answered the question, but it does seem a tad complex. In Frontier's most recent contract with Airbus, they had the freedom to switch A319's (Finkenwerder) to A320's (Toulouse) if they wanted.

Given that there was a cut off date for this, Airbus must have had some slots at Toulouse at least lightly pencilled in for Frontier, in case they made that decision.

Or may they just keep some A320 slots open for such eventualities.

cheers

mariner

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-27 21:50:33 and read 6708 times.

Thank you Mariner,

I'd look forward to seeing Frontier order more A318 too. One to watch for. Back on topic now. With 49 options I hope we get an indication of how many options IB have taken for each model and how many are for the A318 and not just a release saying options over 49 A32X Series.

Regards

PANAM_DC10

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-02-27 22:24:16 and read 6672 times.

Quoting Lightsaber (reply 82):
$28.412 million for an A318 ? wow that's cheap!


AirAsia will pay less than that for its A320s which are a third larger than the A318 and were ordered at a later date (OTOH, they ordered a bundle of 'em). Does it still seem cheap?

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (reply 90):
Also Airbus do not build any model "on a speculative basis", period.


That is not strictly true. Airbus raised its A320 production levels well in advance of filling the slots. In other words, Airbus raised the production and then went and sold the slots to airlines. If that's not speculative output, then I don't know what is.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2005-02-27 22:41:29 and read 6646 times.

Quoting QFA001 (reply 102):
AirAsia will pay less than that for its A320s which are a third larger than the A318 and were ordered at a later date (OTOH, they ordered a bundle of 'em). Does it still seem cheap?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a total capitalist. All the orders noted are low priced. Good for Frontier. Good for any airline that negotiates well. Ok, I was avoiding a Ryanair comparison due to O'Leary being unable to keep to classy quotes!  Big grin Does anyone know what B6 is going to pay for the E190's? List price is ~$29mill. (Yes, we all know list price on autos and airplanes is a joke that no one pays.)

Quoting MD80Nut (reply 99):

Speaking of A318s, it seems CFM engines are still the only ones being ordered. Does anybody have PW powered A318s on order, and if not, will there ever be?
Sigh... America west left themselves the "option" to take A318's with pw6000's... But I have no idea if that will happen or not.  Crying  Crying  Crying
Lightsaber

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-27 23:58:53 and read 6579 times.

Quoting QFA001 (reply 102):
That is not strictly true. Airbus raised its A320 production levels well in advance of filling the slots. In other words, Airbus raised the production and then went and sold the slots to airlines. If that's not speculative output, then I don't know what is


I would say it was a considered increase in production for a product that had been seeing good growth in demand. IIRC, Airbus stated around June of 2004 that they expected to raise production of A32X series by 20%. Mid year and there were still several large campaigns pending. Airbus initially thought they'd deliver 300-305 airplanes in 2004 but were revising this to 320-325 mid year. Due to increased A32X demand.

When this was announced Mr Forgeard was cautious,

And while Forgeard did say that the production increase is to take place sometime this year or maybe even before year’s end, he cautioned that “nobody should make any predictions, for I won’t give any dates.”

To me that says demand is picking up and if we can close Air Berlin and Air Asia then we can use these increased production estimates to offer a shorter lead in time from order to delivery to enhance our sales pitch.

Again, IIRC Airbus booked 289 Gross firm orders for A32X series plus another 133 commitments or so, some of which still need to firmed. That's 422 commitments for A32X in 2004 and I think that slightly exceeded even their own expectations. Airbus currently estimate about 370 deliveries for 2005 and that's this increase factored in too. Not too sure there are too many free delivery slots for the balance of the year.

Anyone can feel free to correct my numbers. The way I see it is that Airbus were quick to react to a stronger than expected pick up in demand in 2004 and the production increase was not speculative but a considered and well carried out response to this demand.

Just my $.02

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-02-28 00:12:42 and read 6561 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (reply 104):
I would say it was a considered increase in production for a product that had been seeing good growth in demand.


You can call it whatever you like. However, the production rises came before the orders (even LoIs) had been booked. So, as I said, what you said about speculative production isn't strictly true.

With the manufacture of any goods, a manufacturer can increase production to reduce costs and thus "generate" demand for their product(s).

So, what came first? Very high demand for the A320 or very low prices for the A320 that generated demand? In the end, it was probably a mix of the two. That's why I only partly disagreed with what you said by saying it wasn't "strictly true".

Also, being a future event (2005-06 output), the speculative output increase may have been able to be scaled back if the strategy failed. However, Airbus has some quite strict employment rules and that would have placed intrinsic pressure on them to make sure that slots were filled once the wheels were in motion.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-02-28 01:04:17 and read 6524 times.

Quoting QFA001 (reply 105):
Also, being a future event (2005-06 output), the speculative output increase may have been able to be scaled back if the strategy failed


That's exactly what I read into Mr Forgeards statement as well. He hedged, If they didn't win as many campaigns in the second half of 2004 they could lower the projected increase if needed. Granted by doing so there is an element of risk there that could be seen as speculative. I don't quite see it that way. Perhaps what I do for a living distorts my view of speculative  Smile

Regards

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: A388
Posted 2005-02-28 01:38:57 and read 6483 times.

Congratulations to both Airbus and Iberia. Like other members here already have said, this Airbus order comes as no surprise given the large Airbus fleet Iberia already operates. What did surprise me is the A318 order, which I didn't see coming.

Some people mentioned the A350 for Iberia, but on which routes can Iberia use such an aircraft. Iberia currently doesn't operate an aircraft in that category, so I'm just curious on which Iberia would or could use an aircraft like the A350 or 787 for that matter.

Anyway, congrats to both Airbus and Iberia. The A318 order is also a nice boost for the A318 order book  Smile

Saludos,

A388  Wink/being sarcastic

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: B752fanatic
Posted 2005-02-28 02:12:05 and read 6463 times.

I still can't understand why they are retiring A320's, whtn the oldest one is from 1991 (Says Airfleets.net).

I can't get it off my mind, a plane that isnt even 15 years old.

It hurts also to see the 757 leave the fleet since is also very young in the fleet. But like we know IB is going to get rid of everything that is not Airbus in their fleet. I hardly see a future for Boeing in their plans.

Iberia Ordering Boeings is like saying that the US airforce will order A330 tankers.

Topic: RE: Iberia Orders 30 A32S (15 A318s, 9 A320, 6 A321)
Username: HEGAN
Posted 2005-02-28 16:48:48 and read 6214 times.

The deliveries will take place until 2011, so the firsts A320 will have 20 years, and maybe with 15-20 years it is easyer to put them in another airline.

On the other hand, lets hope that with this new fleet, IB can improve its image, they deserve it.


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