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Topic: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DL763DFW
Posted 2005-03-19 06:48:16 and read 8235 times.

Saw this off DeltaNet today:

March 18, 2005

Delta will accelerate the retirement of older Boeing 737 aircraft this summer to help reduce fleet complexity and increase overall aircraft reliability. By the end of the year, 13 additional 737-200s and one 737-300 will be removed from service. This decision was based on maintenance expenses and other operating costs.

While Delta had stated earlier that it intends to remove up to four aircraft types from the fleet in about four years, the retirement of these 14 is driven by the timing and cost of the planes' maintenance cycles. This action also allows Delta to reduce fuel costs.

The retirement of the 14 aircraft will bring to 26 the total number of Delta aircraft to be retired in 2005.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaMIA
Posted 2005-03-19 07:01:01 and read 8210 times.

Still leaves them with approximately 35 732's. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe there are about 48 still in service.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: STLGph
Posted 2005-03-19 07:40:11 and read 8156 times.

While not my favorite, the 737-200 is definitely a reliable workhorse. Without a doubt, a lot of midwestern cities will probably be seeing more Comair service.

I'd probably suspect those cities with just one or two 737-200 flights a day will be seeing the changes first.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-19 11:00:51 and read 8043 times.

Sad to see them disappear faster, but as long as it saves them money, I'm all for it. The article mentions 26 planes being retired in total in 2005. 14 are mentioned in that release above, so what are the other 12? 737 Classics as well or does that also include the AT7s scheduled to go?

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaWings
Posted 2005-03-19 11:05:57 and read 8038 times.

When are the 767-200s to go?


~DeltaWings

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DALMD88
Posted 2005-03-19 12:52:05 and read 7984 times.

I believe the other 12 are also 737-200. A few have already been retired this year. I haven't heard any word on 767-200 retirements.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Ianatstn
Posted 2005-03-19 14:01:07 and read 7928 times.

 wideeyed  That's a shame, I loved the sound of the 732's rocekting away from ATL during my visit in October last year, the older generation 737's have so much character...

Cheers,
Ian.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-19 14:41:37 and read 7862 times.

Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier. A shame, as a 5 year elite, most recently 3 years platinum, this hurts....

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2005-03-19 15:29:26 and read 7775 times.

Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Lat41
Posted 2005-03-19 15:46:15 and read 7745 times.

Were these the 737s that originally came from Western? How did DL come to be a 737-200 operator otherwise. I knew them to have boatloads of nice looking DC-9s over the years before the MDs came along.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: SE210Caravelle
Posted 2005-03-19 15:54:12 and read 7727 times.

I think that Delta is making a smart move. Having a smaller fleet is always better, in my opinion and if the 737-200's are being replaced with EMB 170's, I am all for it.

I assume that the 732's have somewhat high operating costs to. Good for Delta!

Thanks,

S E 2 1 0 C a r a v e l l e

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Amy
Posted 2005-03-19 16:08:37 and read 7697 times.

Good to see Delta making positive steps to improve their financial situation. I am sorry to see the 732s go but I am glad that Delta are making plans.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 252MKR
Posted 2005-03-19 16:38:59 and read 7633 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

That is highly debatable. The 737 is still a bigger / heavier plane. It goes through turbulence better, and has much more room. "Seven-three" pilots who have flown multiple (73) types say the -200 is best for flying through "heavy" weather.

Quoting SE210Caravelle (Reply 10):
I assume that the 732's have somewhat high operating costs to. Good for Delta!

Of course the 170 has lower operating costs. It is basically a Lou Dobbs-eaque "outsourcing" plane.

1) PLANES are much cheaper to make in Brazil--than in SEATAC. Labor is a fraction of the cost, there is much less environmental regulation, and there is no Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in Brazil--allowing "free-wheeling" of business.

2) AIRLINE LABOR is cheaper: The subcontracting airlines operating the 170's pay their labor a fraction of what the 73-2 mainline is getting. I know a pilot on a 170 right who's last-per diem check was larger then her take home pay in the same pay period. This is indentured servitude.

3) LET SOMEONE ELSE PAY: Why buy an airplane and carry the capital costs for an asset which comes close to having real depreciation that outpaces tax depreciation (how much is a 7 year old EMB 140 with 14000 cycles worth?)

The aviation cliche' (of picking two concepts among: Comfort, Safety, and Cost) seems eternally true.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: OzarkD9S
Posted 2005-03-19 16:47:39 and read 7613 times.

Quoting Lat41 (Reply 9):

Were these the 737s that originally came from Western?

Some may have, not sure. But DL ordered a batch from Boeing in the 80's. I was quite surprised at the time, since they had DC-9-30's and I believe the 737-300 was being offered at the time. It was one of the last orders for the -200.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Aloha717200
Posted 2005-03-19 16:53:04 and read 7595 times.

Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.


Sad to see the 732s go. Without a doubt my favourite of the 737 series...and certianly the one with the most personality.

737NGs with winglets are cool too but nothing beats a 732. Plus I've heard it's the most enjoyable of the 737s to fly. But that's just hearsay. I'm going to miss it about as much as I miss the 727.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-03-19 17:21:58 and read 7524 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

You're in Grand Rapids. What do you expect?

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DL763DFW
Posted 2005-03-19 18:23:22 and read 7448 times.

I don't know when the 762s are set to retire - I do know for a fact though that Ship 102 "The Spirit of Delta" will be retired to the old Delta hangar alongside the DC-3 and Travelair. I'm not sure if they'll keep her flying like the other two, but at least it wont be scrapped or sold to someone else. I'd imagine the cost of keeping a single 25 year old 762 airworthy for photo ops and airshows is far greater than a DC-3 or a Travelair. But then again, we're the largest 767 airframe operator in the world, so I'm sure we have a plethora of spare parts sitting around to keep her flying for years to come.

[Edited 2005-03-19 18:28:02]

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Docchaos
Posted 2005-03-19 18:34:20 and read 7412 times.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.

Republic Airways (Parent company of RP) will become another DLConx Carrier, operating 16 E170s.

Comair is also trying to obtain financing to purchase more 70 seat jets. At this point Comair's president feels that the E170 is the a/c of the future, but he has said that Comair will pursue whatever a/c the companies will sell at a better cost (E170 or CR7). Comair's pilots have agreed to a "Pay-Freeze" for two years, and in return Comair will be acquiring 35 new jets. (Mostly 70s, but some CRJs) And if financing falls through, so will the pay freeze. It's all to compete with the other DLConx carriers, providing better service with a competitive cost structure.

DocChaos

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaMIA
Posted 2005-03-19 19:31:09 and read 7312 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business

Don't necessarily assume that. When DL mainline was re-introduced into GRR it was with a M88. Back then all the 732's were still with Delta Express. Not to mention there still will be 35 or so still flying through to 2006.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-19 19:37:49 and read 7266 times.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 18):
Don't necessarily assume that. When DL mainline was re-introduced into GRR it was with a M88. Back then all the 732's were still with Delta Express. Not to mention there still will be 35 or so still flying through to 2006.

Well, when you look at the online timetable data (assuming it's up to date) for any day in July, the 732 will be gone, having been replaced by a CR7.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaMIA
Posted 2005-03-19 19:48:27 and read 7208 times.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 19):
Well, when you look at the online timetable data (assuming it's up to date) for any day in July, the 732 will be gone, having been replaced by a CR7.

I didn't, but if that is the case that decision was made before this announcement and has nothing to do with the retirement schedule. All this means now is don't look for future mainline DL service into GRR.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-19 20:00:10 and read 7145 times.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 20):
I didn't, but if that is the case that decision was made before this announcement and has nothing to do with the retirement schedule. All this means now is don't look for future mainline DL service into GRR.

Bad news, if your city is losing DL mainline, while most others are actually (re-)gaining mainline service, like PHF or BUF.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: FLAIRPORT
Posted 2005-03-19 20:22:57 and read 7027 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier. A shame, as a 5 year elite, most recently 3 years platinum, this hurts....

Fear not...there's always NW Big grin

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: MD11LuxuryLinr
Posted 2005-03-20 00:15:56 and read 6212 times.

First NW starts accelerating the retirement of the DC9, now Delta starts with the 732s..

DAMN YOU HIGH FUEL PRICES!!  hissyfit 

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-20 01:40:24 and read 5948 times.

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 23):
DAMN YOU HIGH FUEL PRICES!!

Here, here.... We'd likely have 727's still flying if it wasn't for fuel. They did have the 3 person flight crew, but high fuel will aggrivate the airlines quicker.

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 22):
Fear not...there's always NW

I hear you, may go that way...

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
You're in Grand Rapids. What do you expect?

Based on that type of answer, I'm going to assume you are in a big city, but for your information, Grand Rapids has around 12-15x mainline flights a day on NW.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.

Republic Airways is buying them to operate as DL Connection.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Some of these 732 routes will be replaced by EMB170's which are as comfortable (if not more) than DL's 732's.

Yeah, but that's still DL Connection.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: September11
Posted 2005-03-20 04:27:32 and read 5596 times.

Interesting photos of Delta 732:

View of cockpit

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ralph Duenas



Views of reverse thruster

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Photo © Ken Cheung
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Photo © Ken Cheung



View of aircraft

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Photo © Burke Harper



View of aircraft (older & special scheme)

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Photo © Marlo Plate - Iberian Spotters
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Photo © Gregg Stansbery



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Photo © AirNikon
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Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. Team



View of cabin

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Photo © Pier Picone
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Photo © Ryan Gaddis - Spot This!

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2005-03-20 04:41:07 and read 5531 times.

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 23):
First NW starts accelerating the retirement of the DC9, now Delta starts with the 732s..

DAMN YOU HIGH FUEL PRICES!!

The high fuel prices are spelling the end of the JT8D, specifically the earlier low bypass models (pre- MD-80).  hissyfit  While I'm glad to see quieter aircraft replace them, this will rock Pratt. If fuel keeps going up I'm standing with my prediction on another thread that average aircraft service lives will drop to 25 years. (It was approaching 35 years pre 9/11.) Historically, its been closer to 30 years. (Note: most in the airline industry believed we were at the end of the ~7 year cycle in 2001..., so airframes were being used that everyone "knew" would be retired soon.)

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Tjwgrr
Posted 2005-03-20 21:07:20 and read 5081 times.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 15):
You're in Grand Rapids. What do you expect?

GRR served over 2 million passengers in 2004. The population of the greater Grand Rapids/ Holland / Muskegon area is in excess of 1 million people. The Detroit area keeps losing population and Grand Rapids and West Michigan keeps growing- lots of Detroit area and Chicago area transplants living here....

I'd say GRR losing DL mainline from CVG and earlier this year from ATL, (in addition to DL's pending bankruptcy filing and ATA/C8 pulling out,) is yet another green light for AirTran to begin GRR-ATL service....

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-20 21:44:04 and read 5042 times.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 27):
GRR served over 2 million passengers in 2004. The population of the greater Grand Rapids/ Holland / Muskegon area is in excess of 1 million people

Thank you Todd.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 27):
I'd say GRR losing DL mainline from CVG and earlier this year from ATL, (in addition to DL's pending bankruptcy filing and ATA/C8 pulling out,) is yet another green light for AirTran to begin GRR-ATL service....

I'll vote for anything now...

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 9844
Posted 2005-03-20 23:28:48 and read 4970 times.

To little to late.. Should haver gotten rid of those pigs LONG ago...CHP 11 by Sept.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: AADC10
Posted 2005-03-21 01:57:13 and read 4881 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

One of the costs of the current airline turmoil is that smaller cities will lose mainline service, particularly if the legacy carriers Chapt. 7 (liquidate) or merge. Smaller areas might lose all service. Point to point is great if you live in a big city but is killing service at small airports.

Delta made a mistake in not retiring the 737-200s in 2002. The thought they would need them to hold market share but instead they carried the high costs of operating the planes but did not get the yield back.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-21 02:13:14 and read 4853 times.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 30):
One of the costs of the current airline turmoil is that smaller cities will lose mainline service, particularly if the legacy carriers Chapt. 7 (liquidate) or merge. Smaller areas might lose all service. Point to point is great if you live in a big city but is killing service at small airports

Loosing mainline isn't my problem. It's the execution of the regional ops @ my home airport. I actually prefer some elements of regional ops. Specifically, ground time is quicker (boarding/deplaining/baggage, etc.).

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: VgnAtl747
Posted 2005-03-21 04:25:56 and read 4760 times.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 14):
Delta's buying the E170? Or is Delta Connection? I hadn't heard of this.



Quoting Docchaos (Reply 17):
Comair is also trying to obtain financing to purchase more 70 seat jets. At this point Comair's president feels that the E170 is the a/c of the future, but he has said that Comair will pursue whatever a/c the companies will sell at a better cost (E170 or CR7). Comair's pilots have agreed to a "Pay-Freeze" for two years, and in return Comair will be acquiring 35 new jets. (Mostly 70s, but some CRJs) And if financing falls through, so will the pay freeze. It's all to compete with the other DLConx carriers, providing better service with a competitive cost structure.

Docchaos is correct, our President has been very up front that this new purchase will really help OH to compete with other carriers both inside and outside DL Connection. It should be interesting to see what happens... in a speech recently he said that new aircraft could start arriving on the property as early as July of this year...

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Malaysia
Posted 2005-03-21 04:27:27 and read 4756 times.

The horror the horror, I miss flying the DL 737-200 in First class CVG-DCA oh those days (just a year ago) Big grin I cannot stand those posted thrust reverse pictures... they turn me on!

I also flew on the HP 737-200 and 737-100 and also WN 737-200 (with reverser partially deployed prior to landing, how curious)

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: PPVRA
Posted 2005-03-21 04:41:48 and read 4741 times.

Quoting 252MKR (Reply 12):
1) PLANES are much cheaper to make in Brazil--than in SEATAC. Labor is a fraction of the cost, there is much less environmental regulation, and there is no Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in Brazil--allowing "free-wheeling" of business.

While labor costs are lower, I'm not sure how helpful our over tax burden system helps out Embraer much.

And trust me, the "much less environmental regulation" part is definitely not true. Those "left-wing, tree huggers and dope-smoking hippies" as an American friend of mine creatively puts it, have quite a bit of political influence down here.

As for the piece of legislation mentioned, I have no idea what that is.


On to the topic, I think it's very sad to see these 732s go. Certainly a great aircraft.

Cheers,

PPVRA

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: CTHEWORLD
Posted 2005-03-21 04:51:20 and read 4726 times.

The title of this thread just seems weird, Early? Earlier than what, NWA and DC-9? I don't think 2005 is "early" to retire a -200!

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DL763DFW
Posted 2005-03-21 05:04:17 and read 4715 times.

Earlier than Delta originally planned to retire their 732s. They just upped the schedule of doing so. Also, the 732s that DL owns were some of the last to roll of the production line, which was mid to late 80s. I'm not sure about the Western Pac and Western birds, they might be older. But as for the DL ordered 732s, we have 762s and some 763s that are older.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 252MKR
Posted 2005-03-21 05:56:29 and read 4683 times.

PPVRA,

Highly amusing post! You are correct in calling me out on my sometimes overly sweeping generalizations.

If you can not get to sleep some night, just type Sarbanes-Oxley into a search engine. You will be rewarded with a ton of super boring business regulation aimed at preventing the next "Enron." I am sure it will prove better than counting sheep.

Blue Skies,

252

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 707437
Posted 2005-03-21 09:19:37 and read 4599 times.

Most of the 732s are leased so its now just a return.

Operating 732s, 733s, 738s MD-83s and MD-90s and 757s all together is just a bad business plan. . . Not to mention the 727s that are already out of the fleet. They should've already consolidated the narrowbody fleet types long ago.

I wonder how long it will take until all of the majors have mostly 737NG or mostly A320 fleets for domestic narrowbody operations (augmented by aging 757s of course).

And no more DC-9s, old generation 737s or MD-80s/90s . . . Maybe as soon 5 years?

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-21 14:34:20 and read 4534 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
Looks like my home market of GRR will loose DL mainline service, and thus my business.

DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier.

I may have spoken too harsh too soon. Had a very nice experience this morning on a flight.

Since this post came online Saturday, I've put DL under the microscope in my market. And I'm flying 4 out of 5 days in GRR - so it is a good time.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-21 16:09:07 and read 4460 times.

Quoting 707437 (Reply 38):
I wonder how long it will take until all of the majors have mostly 737NG or mostly A320 fleets for domestic narrowbody operations (augmented by aging 757s of course).

And no more DC-9s, old generation 737s or MD-80s/90s . . . Maybe as soon 5 years?

More like in 10 years earliest. I'll go by airline:
AA: Some 360 MD-80s. If replace at a rate of 3 per month, it would take 10 years to replace them all. Not to mention AA doesn't have the money to buy or lease 360 737NGs.
CO: Already simplified, and the fleet will likely be simplified to 737NGs only within the next 5 years.
DL: All 732s and 733s are scheduled for disposal until 2007. Even then, still 136 MD-88/90s left. At a rate of 3 per month as well (from 2007 on), it would take almost 4 years.
NW: And their DC-9s, no comment
UA and US: Both have no money, but both are slowly retiring parts of their 737 fleets. Should either or both survive, they'd be the first Legacy Carrier to have an entire A320- or 737NG-only fleet. But that is also still years away.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Gr8SlvrFlt
Posted 2005-03-21 16:52:33 and read 4408 times.

Does this mean more layoffs? I don't believe there are any new aircraft deliveries this year or next.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-21 17:07:56 and read 4373 times.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 41):
Does this mean more layoffs? I don't believe there are any new aircraft deliveries this year or next.

No, there will be no more layoffs besides the 6,900 already announced last year. And while DL itself doesn't have any planes on order until 2007, CHQ will be gettig 16 EMB-170s, and ASA still some 20+ CRJs on order.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2005-03-21 17:18:08 and read 4359 times.

DAL767400ER,

I recall that DL has 737-800s on order for 2006 that haven't been cancelled. Have those been cancelled or does DL still intend to receive the aircraft.

Jeremy

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-21 17:31:55 and read 4339 times.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 43):
I recall that DL has 737-800s on order for 2006 that haven't been cancelled. Have those been cancelled or does DL still intend to receive the aircraft.

I'm not really sure about DL's 738 delivery dates. What I am sure about is that the majority of them will be delivered in 2007, 36 total I believe, and the rest were either in early 2008 or late 2006, but I'm not sure about those.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Tjwgrr
Posted 2005-03-21 21:21:22 and read 4223 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
DL Connection is not reliable in my market and I will have to choose another carrier. A shame, as a 5 year elite, most recently 3 years platinum, this hurts....



Quoting B4real (Reply 39):
I may have spoken too harsh too soon. Had a very nice experience this morning on a flight.

Rick- an interesting side note:

ASA 716 (DL 4716) GRR-ATL was cancelled early yesterday (Sunday) morning. Flight departed GRR but was forced to return to GRR due to an inflight stabilization problem. ARFF was called out to monitor the faster than normal landing. A/C taxied back to the gate without further incident.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: KFLLCFII
Posted 2005-03-21 22:29:36 and read 4175 times.

Quoting 9844 (Reply 29):
To little to late.. Should haver gotten rid of those pigs LONG ago...CHP 11 by Sept.

IIRC, the Hispanic name that I heard for the 732 is "La Chanchita"...maybe one of our Spanish-speaking friends can verify...

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-22 04:28:21 and read 4051 times.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 46):
La Chanchita

Chancita=Little pig

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Brons2
Posted 2005-03-22 04:58:38 and read 4024 times.

Quoting 252MKR (Reply 12):
1) PLANES are much cheaper to make in Brazil--than in SEATAC. Labor is a fraction of the cost, there is much less environmental regulation, and there is no Sarbanes-Oxley legislation in Brazil--allowing "free-wheeling" of business.

Pilots talking about Sarbanes-Oxley?

LOL!!! You're out of your league here, bud.

For a company with a well run IT department, Sarbanes-Oxley is not much of a barrier at all. If it causes upheavel in your organization, it wasn't well run to begin with.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-22 05:26:06 and read 3985 times.

I gave some more thought to this...

For my market, its starting to make sense. I think Fred Buttrell was appointed chief @ Comair to make it 'sellable' due to the financial climate, and stations like mine the DL flight is handled on the ground by Comair staff. When/if DL sells Comair - that makes this a lot easier of a divorce if the only flights to GRR are Comair or ASA - no Delta flights....

Am I on the crack pipe or the right side of the tracks?

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaMIA
Posted 2005-03-22 05:44:05 and read 3973 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 49):
Am I on the crack pipe or the right side of the tracks?

That really wouldn't have anything to do with it. The only stations where OH handles mainline flights are GRR, BUF, MHT, and MDW.
PHF, MYR, GPT, VPS are handled by EV.
GEG, PSC, RNO, BUR are handled by OO.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DALMD88
Posted 2005-03-22 08:56:25 and read 3904 times.

DL has 10 738 on order for the third and fourth quarters of 06. We get 3 a month in 07.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Docchaos
Posted 2005-03-22 16:14:45 and read 3864 times.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 50):
That really wouldn't have anything to do with it. The only stations where OH handles mainline flights are GRR, BUF, MHT, and MDW.

In TYS the ramp run by OH employees, and ticketing/gate is run by DL.
That is the only other station I can remember off the top of my head that does mainline...

DocChaos

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Thrust
Posted 2005-03-22 16:28:14 and read 3843 times.

This should help DL with their operating costs. Keeping the 732s around in the state that they are in is suicide, especially with the fuel prices. These are dark days in the airline industry  tombstone 

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Jetpixx
Posted 2005-03-23 01:42:17 and read 3731 times.

I flew through CVG earlier this morning and it was chock full of 732s still. If you want to see them before they go, fly through Cincinnati's nice airport.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: ARCJET
Posted 2005-03-23 02:40:59 and read 3709 times.

 cry  Does this mean Mainline days are numbered at Columbia, SC, one of the original cities from Delta's first route from August 1934? If only C.E. Woolman could see his company today...

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2005-03-23 14:26:37 and read 3628 times.

There are 2 enroute to VCV today out of ATL.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Milesrich
Posted 2005-03-23 14:44:19 and read 3623 times.

The 737-232A may have "higher" operating costs, but on a passenger per seat mile basis, is the ERJ-170 less expensive to operate. I believe that the Canadairs have higher operating costs than the mainline 737-200's, but this is a question the airline execs rarely answer. It is much easier to tell their employees, " you must take a pay cut." Quite frankly, I hope every airline, and I mean every airline goes bankrupt and shuts down. It is ridiculous for these CEO's and their underlings to sell their product below cost, and to blame it on their front line employees. The answer to survive in the industry is to be the last one standing, so that then fares can be raised to profitable levels. If that means that Aunt Sandy and her four children will only fly to see grandma in Florida once instead of twice a year, so be it. The airline business is the only one that I know of where almost all of the variable operating costs, except labor, are beyond the control of management.

When crude oil rises, Exxon/Mobil and BP/Amoco raises their price for gasoline, they do not call in their refinery workers, or the Tanker crews, and say, we need wage concessions. The whole thing is just ridiculous. All people, except Terry Schaivo, are not commodities.

The airlines need to raise their fares, and stick with them. The board of directors of Delta should can whoever decided to rescind this latest fare increase. Most of the other carriers went along, and the ones that didnt cannot steal that much market share. And besides, if an airline wants to sell their seats below cost, let them, they will just go out of business sooner.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-23 15:46:52 and read 3592 times.

Quoting ARCJET (Reply 55):
Does this mean Mainline days are numbered at Columbia, SC, one of the original cities from Delta's first route from August 1934? If only C.E. Woolman could see his company today...

So what? Other cities on DL's first route have lost mainline service years ago, like JAN, AEX or MLU. It's better than being dropped altogether.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: FlyPNS1
Posted 2005-03-23 15:48:29 and read 3588 times.

JAN still has mainline service on DL to ATL.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-23 15:57:51 and read 3587 times.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 59):
JAN still has mainline service on DL to ATL.

My mistake. Somehow I mixed up JAN with SHV  ashamed  .

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2005-03-24 16:35:40 and read 3482 times.

I gotta get my a$$ to BUF to get a shot of the one to/from CVG before they're gone  Smile

Here's another enroute to VCV.....

Airline Delta Air Lines
Flight Number 9900
Departure City (Airport) Atlanta, GA (ATL)
Departure Time 03/24/2005 10:18 AM
Arrival City (Airport) Victorville, CA (VCV)
Arrival Time 03/24/2005 12:33 PM
Remaining Flight Time 05:15 (planned)
Aircraft Type Boeing 737-200
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Planned

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 777STL
Posted 2005-03-24 18:11:53 and read 3443 times.

Quoting ARCJET (Reply 55):
Does this mean Mainline days are numbered at Columbia, SC, one of the original cities from Delta's first route from August 1934? If only C.E. Woolman could see his company today...

At least he would still be able to see it. Howard Hughes wouldn't be so lucky....

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: ARCJET
Posted 2005-03-24 23:01:11 and read 3362 times.

AEX was not on the orginial route

DAL - SHV- MLU- JAN - BHM - ATL - AGS - CAE - CHS

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: ATCT
Posted 2005-03-25 04:00:04 and read 3302 times.

I have many flights aboard the DL 732's as an old employee and pax alike. I love the aircraft as both a pax. and ramp rat perspective. Its a great old bird. I'll be truly sorry to see it leave the fleet.


ATCT

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-25 04:07:17 and read 3293 times.

ATCT

I love the 732 as well. I think f/c and coach are more comfortable on the 732 than on the MD-88 and MD-90. Nice sized bins as well inside.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Cleared2Land4
Posted 2005-03-25 04:24:14 and read 3278 times.

THats good I HATE THE 732s they are old and dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2005-03-25 05:23:53 and read 3244 times.

Quoting 707437 (Reply 38):
I wonder how long it will take until all of the majors have mostly 737NG or mostly A320 fleets for domestic narrowbody operations (augmented by aging 757s of course).

I guess it will hapen just as soon as they are all in chapter 7 or 11. DL has waited too long to consolodate fleet types. I understand the logic of buying type to fit a market by the number of seats/range needed, by why didnt they just buy 737 variants to begin with?  airplane 

They obviously had to know that a 737-300/400/500 was cheaper to run than a 727. I heard the 727 consumes 2200 GPH as opposed the 1200 the 737 use. Thats a lot of gas saved plus mx costs vs. some odd fewer seats, dependng on the version. If these figures are true, even when fuel was cheap it makes a lot more sense to run a 37 any day.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Dalmd88
Posted 2005-03-25 08:52:24 and read 3203 times.

We had orders for 737-300 and MD90s back before the Pan Am buy out. These two aircraft were to be the future narrow body fleet. After the Pan Am buy out the orders were cancelled and the 727 retirements were put off.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-25 19:19:01 and read 3166 times.

I did a quick couple of spottings here, and I found that the following routes will lose DL mainline service bi-directionally:

CVG-BHM
CVG-GRR
CVG-STL
CVG-BNA
CVG-LEX
CVG-SDF

The following routes are loosing mainline one-way:

CVG-CLE 1x daily, no CLE-CVG on mainline
MIA-CVG 1x daily, no CVG-MIA on mainline

I have an eerie feeling that CVG may be taking the course of DFW. Anyone see this?

I don't know what the right balance of mainline and regional ops needs to be, but I feel CVG is going too heavy on DL connection.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DeltaMIA
Posted 2005-03-25 19:36:28 and read 3173 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 69):
MIA-CVG 1x daily, no CVG-MIA on mainline

Actually CVG-MIA is losing mainline service. The schedules just haven't been finalized after 08/31/05 (the date of the last MIA-CVG mainline flight).

About the rest
CLE loses their mainline flight to CVG on 05/31/05, but still has one coming in from CVG.
GRR loses both directions on 05/31/05
BHM loses both directions on 04/29/05
BNA loses both directions on 04/29/05
STL loses both directions on 05/31/05

LEX is not scheduled to lose mainline flights to CVG.
SDF is still scheduled to have a mainline flight one direction.

Surprisingly PIT gets a mainline CVG flight on 04/03/05.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-25 23:45:24 and read 3085 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 69):
I don't know what the right balance of mainline and regional ops needs to be, but I feel CVG is going too heavy on DL connection.

By that number, CVG is indeed going the way of DFW. After the "Regionaljetization" by DL, the relation between mainline and RJs was roughly 1:4. At CVG, that relation currently stands at 1:3.06. And with the 732s soon gone, it will likely look even more like DFW, even if the EMB-170s are used from CVG (they are still flown by regionals). As a side info, at ATL the relation is 1.94:1.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-25 23:55:09 and read 3078 times.

DAL767400ER: Is that ratio on number of seats, or number of flights?

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-26 00:04:04 and read 3076 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 72):
Is that ratio on number of seats, or number of flights?

That ratio is based on the number of flights. Don't know about the seat number ratio though.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-03-26 00:14:14 and read 3074 times.

I think the ratio to the number of seats is a stronger speaking stat. Though, that is a much tougher one to calcuate.

If I get some time this weekend, I'm going to break down MCO and CVG in this regard. MCO for analyzing the ratio between DL connection, song, and mainline.

I really hope CVG doesn't get the DFW curse.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Jetpixx
Posted 2005-03-26 02:23:04 and read 3045 times.

I got a few nice photos of the 732 at CVG earlier this week. It will be a shame to see them go. Check out my personal website (see profile) if interested. I used to see a lot of these planes with the DL Express product here in FLL, too.

Take care - DAN

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: 1011
Posted 2005-03-26 02:33:00 and read 3034 times.

I will miss the 732. I feel much safer in a 732 over an RJ. Look at the incidents on the RJs, they have a lot of engine problems. You have engine problems with pilots that don't have a lot of flight hours.

I rather have a 7372

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-26 11:04:03 and read 2972 times.

Quoting B4real (Reply 74):
If I get some time this weekend, I'm going to break down MCO and CVG in this regard. MCO for analyzing the ratio between DL connection, song, and mainline.

Sounds like a good idea. I might do the same for ATL, as a "positive example". Only problem is that from the standard .pdf timetable it is not visible whether for example a "CRJ" is the standard CRJ with 50 seats, or the 40-seat version.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: Bmacleod
Posted 2005-03-26 14:10:49 and read 2957 times.

I think "early" for the 737-200 would be in the past decade. Most other major airlines have already retired their 732s. AC retired its ZIP 732s just last year, and even those weren't in its mainline fleet.

UA retired its 732s around the same time as its 727s in late 2001. CO retired them even earlier - 1999. So by no measure is 2005 an early retirement for the 732 in fact I'm quite surprised DL hadn't retired them right after 9/11 along with its 727s.

[Edited 2005-03-26 14:13:40]

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: SESGDL
Posted 2005-03-26 17:36:14 and read 2910 times.

Bmacleod,

Yes, but UA also received some of theirs in the late 1960s, DL's last 73S was delivered in 1987, that's relatively new.

Jeremy

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DALMD88
Posted 2005-03-26 21:42:02 and read 2851 times.

The 737-200/300 are not our oldest aircraft. The 767-200 and some of the 757 are older. Some of our MD-88 are about the same age.

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: WGW2707
Posted 2005-03-26 22:01:32 and read 2838 times.

Delta's 737-200s are likeable aircraft, with the slightly drab atmosphere of a commuter train.

I take it then no word has come out what the other three types to be retired are?

-WGW2707

Topic: RE: DL To Retire 732s Early
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2005-03-26 22:10:43 and read 2836 times.

Quoting WGW2707 (Reply 81):
I take it then no word has come out what the other three types to be retired are?

Not completely. The 733s and 762s will be two of the three others, or most likely even all three of them, if DL makes a difference between their different 733s (those with a glass cockpit and those without).


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