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Topic: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: TS
Posted 2005-05-29 20:10:49 and read 9265 times.

I just looked through the 747 production list & noticed that UA had ordered 7 Boeing 747-400s in the late 1990s that were actually never built. Construction numbers are 28814 to 28820, regos N128UA to N134UA. The same goes for LH in 2002. There are 4 747s (c/n 33097 to 33433, D-ABTM to D-ABTP). Sorry if this has been discussed before but why were the orders cancelled? LH got the A340-600 not too long after this. Was this the replacement?

Thomas

[Edited 2005-05-29 20:13:27]

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: Texdravid
Posted 2005-05-29 20:49:08 and read 9127 times.

Combination of factors.

After 9/11, UA did not need the capacity.
LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet and probably got a good deal from Airbus for their 346's to boot.

Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: GodBless
Posted 2005-05-29 21:31:14 and read 9001 times.

The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).

Max

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: TS
Posted 2005-05-29 22:44:41 and read 8832 times.

Quoting GodBless (Reply 4):
The A346 orders and the cancellation the the 744's at LH have just about nothing to do with eachother.
When the order was cancelled they at the same time removed eight 747-200's from the fleet. Lufthansa had learned in the early 90's (they still had the same management in 2001) that it takes some time to get back to a normal level of operations (i.e. pre 9/11 level), so the order for new 747's made no sense. Roughly at the same time they ordered the A380 so they did plan for growth but that was a few years down the road (probably too far down the road as LH has been lacking longhaul a/c since 2002...).

Thanks Max for the infos. This is what I wanted to know.

Thomas

[Edited 2005-05-29 22:45:37]

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2005-05-29 22:58:42 and read 8787 times.

LH was looking at 4 additional B 747-400s before 9.11. A pity that everything was cancelled after 9.11. They do not need the capacity. And they have already ordered the A 380. Besides they already have a large B 747-400 fleet

Hope they will order the B 747 Advanced.

UA changed their 7 B 747-400 orders to B 777-200ERs way before 9.11

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2005-05-30 02:32:01 and read 8552 times.

BA is another airline that cancelled 747-400s. It is one of the reasons that its 777-236ERs are Rolls Royce powered, as the 747-436s BA still had on order were to bee RR powered, so when they were cancelled and replaced by 777s, BA wanted to avoid having to pay out to RR for the cancelled engines. As it was the 16 777-236ERs allowed the 16 747-236Bs to be replaced, while the cancelled 747-436s were part of a capacity cut.

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: N1120A
Posted 2005-05-30 02:39:59 and read 8531 times.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
LH wanted to streamline and modernize their fleet

Yeah, because 744s are radial engined props that fly 300 kts

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

A late 1980's technology that flies faster, holds more passengers and is more efficient on a seat-mile basis than any other aircraft in service

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: DfwRevolution
Posted 2005-05-30 03:02:29 and read 8480 times.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 3):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the A320  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: UALramperORD
Posted 2005-05-30 03:05:43 and read 8469 times.

Quoting Rsmith6621a (Reply 1):
UA is probably going to be history in the next 72 hours if managment doesnt get serious about collective barginning....the Unions are busy putting final touches on a strike set for tuesday afternoon I guess the Union already has read the crystal ball that Wedof will side with UA AGAIN.....Im buyin my set of leather gloves today so I dont gettem splinters in me fingers.

Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: Rsmith6621a
Posted 2005-05-30 05:00:34 and read 8204 times.

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 10):
Well, the judge gave them all an extra week, till june 7 I belive. well see what happens.

Here is an update for you......

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...5/28/BUGV4CVUVV1.DTL&type=business

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: N867BX
Posted 2005-05-30 06:04:03 and read 7805 times.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Yeah, because 744s are radial engined props that fly 300 kts

I believe your data on the 744 is a bit inaccurate, only the older 747's had radial engines.

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: PM
Posted 2005-05-30 06:11:13 and read 7758 times.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
So is the A320

Which is relevant to this thread or ... or what was your reason for posting this?

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: AirWales
Posted 2005-05-30 10:07:55 and read 6782 times.

He is just trying to say that this aircraft uses late 80's technology as you put it and look at how that aircraft is doing. It is a relevant point as it justifies his argument.

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: FRAspotter
Posted 2005-05-30 10:43:47 and read 6612 times.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 1):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the 737 (60's, 70's, 80's)

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: A3xx900
Posted 2005-05-30 11:18:26 and read 6428 times.

Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH. Ordering A346s makes sense to me, since they only have A330s and A340s in their long haul fleet. Remember that the A380 will arrive soon, so why keep the Boeing black sheep?

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: N1120A
Posted 2005-05-30 11:21:38 and read 6399 times.

Quoting A3xx900 (Reply 14):
Don't forget fleet commonality. The 744 is the only Boeing long haul aircraft for LH.

With LH's fleet size, the commonality thing is not nearly the same argument

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: AirPacific747
Posted 2005-05-30 12:43:26 and read 6045 times.

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 13):
Quoting Texdravid (Reply 1):
Let's face it, 744's are a late 80's technology.

So is the 737 (60's, 70's, 80's)

Yeah, well... this thread is about 747's, not 737's..

Topic: RE: Why Did UA & LH Cancel Their 747 Orders?
Username: PyroGX41487
Posted 2005-05-30 19:04:15 and read 3834 times.

This is the same reason why I think the 747ADV is dead in the water... it would cost too much to upgrade it to 7E7 standards without creating an entirely new design.

Everyone likes the 747 because it is "the Queen of the Skies" and all that... come on, even Queens have to die sometime.


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