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Topic: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: LXsaab2000
Posted 2005-06-28 12:03:45 and read 3607 times.

Air China is going to increase some flights to Europe from PEK.

from Jul :
- Moscow-Beijing from 3 to 5 weekly flights (777)
- Munich-Beijing from 3 to 4 weekly flights (777)
- Rome-Beijing goes to 4 nonstop weekly flights (744)

from Aug :
- Stockholm-Beijing from 3 to 4 weekly flights (762)


On the other side , CA 'll suspend Milan-Beijing route from 1st Jul.
I suppose that Paris , London and Frankfurt will continue as usual with daily flights to Beijing (343/744)


Is it possible to see in the near future other new European cities linked by CA?
I hope to see them in Switzerland  Wink

Bye

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2005-06-28 12:11:14 and read 3552 times.

Quoting LXsaab2000 (Thread starter):
Is it possible to see in the near future other new European cities linked by CA?

I suppose that, with the new ownership situation at LX and LX's stated intention of returning to the China market, either by itself or via a codeshare agreement, it is possible that CA would return to ZRH at some point in the near future. When CA suspended its operations at ZRH a couple of years ago, it operated thrice weekly A343 flights there.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: LXsaab2000
Posted 2005-06-28 12:27:55 and read 3516 times.

I'm agree with you.
CA flights in c/s with LX on Zurich-Beijing would be perfect. Maybe 3 or 4 flights to start.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: 6thfreedom
Posted 2005-06-28 12:29:04 and read 3518 times.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Is it possible to see in the near future other new European cities linked by CA?

There are a number of other issues on suppose for Chinese carriers to expand into Europe.
1. Does anyone know to which countries chinese carriers have rights?
2. The CAAC still has some control over who does what.
3. Which countries have been granted ADS [approved destination status] for chinese tourists to visit.
4. Perception in the market on safety and inflight ofering of Chinese carriers.

I suspect there may be some restrictions in rights, as CZ only serves AMS and CDG, while MU only serves MUC and LHR [dropped previous MAD extension].

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2005-06-28 12:41:14 and read 3514 times.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
while MU only serves MUC and LHR [dropped previous MAD extension].

MU previously also served BRU with A343, both as a PVG-MUC-BRU and PVG-BRU-MAD operation. If I'm not mistaken, the flights also stopped in Beijing.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: FCKC
Posted 2005-06-28 14:20:47 and read 3403 times.

MU also lands at CDG.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: IB787
Posted 2005-06-28 15:56:54 and read 3320 times.

Why not flying non-stop to MAD? UX flights to China have already a 90% of occupation for this summer and very few airlines seem to be interested in operating Spain-China routes.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: David_itl
Posted 2005-06-28 19:36:20 and read 3227 times.

Quoting LXsaab2000 (Thread starter):
Is it possible to see in the near future other new European cities linked by CA?

MAN is reputed to be having discussions with CA for a fair while whilst only yesterday, the UK's CAA released a study into 5th Freedom flights to the UK regions which, in one of the case studies, utilised CA operating to MAN via ARN.

David

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: N77014
Posted 2005-06-28 19:49:10 and read 3176 times.

Quoting IB787 (Reply 6):
Why not flying non-stop to MAD? UX flights to China have already a 90% of occupation for this summer and very few airlines seem to be interested in operating Spain-China routes.

Because every major hub in Europe is conveniently located between MAD and China, and IB sees their long haul fleet making $$$ on MIA, MEX and other latin american routes, where their brand is a known commodity. Because of where MAD is located, they could only carry O/D traffic, and lose out on connecting revenue the way AF, LH, and KL do.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: LXsaab2000
Posted 2005-06-28 21:32:05 and read 3130 times.

Why not CA's flights to AMS , BRU .... ? I'm quite sure that flights to central - northern Europe to China would work.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: MH017
Posted 2005-06-28 21:50:18 and read 3084 times.

AMS is served by CZ (China Southern) already, and given their soon-to-be membership into Skyteam (AMS is a Skyteam hub), I doubt CA will (ever) operate there soon.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: IB787
Posted 2005-06-29 01:40:49 and read 2988 times.

Quoting N77014 (Reply 8):
Because every major hub in Europe is conveniently located between MAD and China, and IB sees their long haul fleet making $$$ on MIA, MEX and other latin american routes, where their brand is a known commodity. Because of where MAD is located, they could only carry O/D traffic, and lose out on connecting revenue the way AF, LH, and KL do.

Yeah, I know, but my point is that there is O/D traffic between MAD and China. Chinese population is growing fast in Spain and Spanish tourists in China are growing fast too. Since IB doesn't seem to be interested in China and UX can't add more frecuencies to that route, I think it would be very profitable for any chinese airline to come back to MAD (non-stop or one stop).

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: HKGKaiTak
Posted 2005-06-29 01:52:56 and read 2977 times.

On the other hand I wonder who is flying on these China-Europe services.  Confused

I don't understand Europe very well but from Aussie experience - it seems the business plan for all the Chinese carrier's Australian services involve the huge overseas Chinese population (especially its international students) and their leisure / VFR travel, Chinese's business travel (both originating in China and Oz) and Chinese leisure travel to ADS countries like Oz.

You'd find that they promote little to the general travel market only to overseas Chinese. I for one have not seen any non-Chinese travel agent promoting a China fare on MU, CA or CZ, but on other Asian carriers like CX, MH, SQ, TG etc.

Is it different for Europe?

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: 6thfreedom
Posted 2005-06-29 05:57:09 and read 2915 times.

Quoting IB787 (Reply 11):
I think it would be very profitable for any chinese airline to come back to MAD (non-stop or one stop).

There is money to be made in many places for Chinese arilines, so from there perspective it's about where they can make the MOST $$ from putting there aircraft.
MAD may be profitable in your opinion, but they would probably make more elsewhere.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
You'd find that they promote little to the general travel market only to overseas Chinese. I for one have not seen any non-Chinese travel agent promoting a China fare on MU, CA or CZ, but on other Asian carriers like CX, MH, SQ, TG etc.

Agree.. while Ive flown with both CZ and MU, I am definately in the minority.
A few reasons why most Aussies don't fly with Chinese carriers.
1. Very little promotion in the aussie market for non-Chinese
2. Perception of quality and safety of Chinese carriers
3. Most business pax have frequent flier benefits with the other Asian carriers of QF, as would most leisure pax. ie. QF FF membership.

Topic: RE: CA To Increase Some Flights To Europe
Username: Leskova
Posted 2005-06-29 08:22:55 and read 2851 times.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 12):
You'd find that they promote little to the general travel market only to overseas Chinese. I for one have not seen any non-Chinese travel agent promoting a China fare on MU, CA or CZ, but on other Asian carriers like CX, MH, SQ, TG etc.

Is it different for Europe?

In some way, yes.

Quite a number of tour operators use CA for their tours to China, including the bigger ones, so they do get quite a bit of business from Germany; the fact that their fares are usually lower than those of LH (ok, not really all that difficult) helps as well.

Specifically promoting fares to China is not something you see very much of here - it's usually just in combination with land arrangements.

As for MU and CZ - well, CZ doesn't fly to Germany, so you see quite little about them around here, in the case of MU, I did see them mentioned a few times, but nowhere near as often as CA.

Regards,
Frank


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