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Topic: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 14:31:53 and read 5041 times.

I thought the Houston Airport System was going to sit by and give up the services to DFW--it looks like they are finally starting a push for Air India and Jet Airways to choose IAH over DFW for the proposed India flights.
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=73835
This will be an interesting battle-and I'm sure this thread will turn into another Houston vs. Dallas thread  box  let's just keep this round clean though folks  Silly

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Ssides
Posted 2005-07-06 15:34:07 and read 4989 times.

It will be an interesting fight ... I wish they could work together and get one airline to serve DFW and the other to serve IAH.

This will be the first big test to see if DFW's new International Terminal D was worth it.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 15:37:44 and read 4980 times.

I agree--I think that ultimately I think Air India will chose IAH and Jet will chose DFW.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: AirbusfanYYZ
Posted 2005-07-06 15:58:03 and read 4948 times.

I would suspect that you'll see AI do a DEL-FRA-DFW-IAH initally with a move to separate flights for each city should demand warrant.

Cheers,
Kaz

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jdaniel001
Posted 2005-07-06 16:47:40 and read 4888 times.

Houston will keep stealing the international air service right from under DFW nose. Pakistan should have chosen DFW dangit!

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2005-07-06 17:05:07 and read 4861 times.

-"‘‘Houston has the largest concentration of Asian Indians in Texas. It is the location of one of the five Government of India Consular Offices in the US. So, the city deserves to have a direct connecting flight from India,’’ he said."-

Several good points in the article. I am glad they are finally noting these things to the airline. It is about time!

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Houston, First word spoken from the moon

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: N77014
Posted 2005-07-06 17:05:18 and read 4862 times.

IAH has much to offer a new entrant in the Indian market: a large and very wealthy Indian population, plenty of space in the int'l terminal (D), and close enough to either asia or europe to route a stopover. The only competition offered are via KL, LH, AF, or BA.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-07-06 17:15:50 and read 4845 times.

I don't see the compieitition.

From my unbiased point of view, this is only Houston's to lose. Dallas isn't getting it. And it is Air India or Jet Airways to Texas, not both. Just my two cents.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 17:21:55 and read 4829 times.

I believe both Jet and Air India plan on servicing Texas--Are there some type of regulations in place that prevent both from servicing Texas? The Dallas market can support a route as well as they have a sizeable market; however I think Houston will win one if not both.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jdaniel001
Posted 2005-07-06 17:29:09 and read 4810 times.

Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys! Big grin

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-07-06 17:31:48 and read 4805 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 4):
Houston will keep stealing the international air service right from under DFW nose. Pakistan should have chosen DFW dangit!

from what I know, Houston has a larger Pakistani base than Dallas does, though its a shame that even many Pakistani residents of Houston do not know that PK fly to their city.......

i'm working on getting on the first 777-200LR pax flight out of IHA to ISB... biggrin 

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-07-06 17:35:17 and read 4797 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 8):
I believe both Jet and Air India plan on servicing Texas--Are there some type of regulations in place that prevent both from servicing Texas?

There are no such regulations, but this isn't Chicago or New York City. One airline can do very well serving a Texas-India routes. Two airlines will just hurt each other.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 17:54:25 and read 4773 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 9):
Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys!

Thumbs down on Dallas--better airport ha, Cowboys double ha, I get along fine with the humidity. Round 1 has begun  box 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
There are no such regulations, but this isn't Chicago or New York City. One airline can do very well serving a Texas-India routes. Two airlines will just hurt each other.

I agree to a certain extent--Dallas and Houston can each support an airline--not two in the same city though. Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: N77014
Posted 2005-07-06 18:00:00 and read 4761 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 12):
I agree to a certain extent--Dallas and Houston can each support an airline--not two in the same city though. Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.

Agreed. Add to that the fact that especially in IAH, there is good european competition that you don't see in DFW. And a wraparound service won't work; two stops versus a one stop in a european hub?

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2005-07-06 18:02:15 and read 4754 times.

 box  Let's get it on!

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Mrniji
Posted 2005-07-06 18:04:20 and read 4753 times.

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 3):
I would suspect that you'll see AI do a DEL-FRA-DFW-IAH

for the matter of politeness, I will suggest to route the flight from MAA instead of DEL, coz otherwise TexDravid won't take it, eh? Big grin

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-07-06 18:07:21 and read 4747 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 12):
Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.

This isn't a short RJ hop. When talking about international carriers, regions such as Dallas and Houston compete to a much greater scale. LAX affects SAN, EWR affects PHL, MIA affects MCO, etc., etc.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 18:11:59 and read 4727 times.

Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Brons2
Posted 2005-07-06 18:20:56 and read 4714 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 17):
Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.

However, people from other parts of Texas will drive to one or the other based on non-stops available, or alternately, price, when speaking of international service.

(Hello from Austin)

My most recent solution was to fly WN to BWI and then BA BWI-LHR over the pond instead though, since I had Rapid Rewards credits. However, DFW-CDG was tempting at $509. AUS-IAH-LGW was $651 on CO. For a direct USA-India flight I'd be willing to go out of either DFW or IAH.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-07-06 18:30:57 and read 4688 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 17):
Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.

No, they will fly to IAH or DFW and make a connection. I am not saying they are the same market, though in terms of how an international airline thinks, they are in the same region, and to an international airline, regions are the markets, not metro areas. That's why many European/Asian airlines lack service to Philadelphia, Orlando, Dallas, and Detroit, decent sized international travel markets - too bad that they are so close to Newark, Miami, Houston, and Chicago, respectively.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Himmat01
Posted 2005-07-06 19:03:12 and read 4644 times.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 15):

for the matter of politeness, I will suggest to route the flight from MAA instead of DEL, coz otherwise TexDravid won't take it, eh?

btw, where is he? have not seen posts from him for ages.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 19:13:04 and read 4633 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Not truly convinced that both airports could see service--but point well taken.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Mrniji
Posted 2005-07-06 19:31:44 and read 4608 times.

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 20):
btw, where is he? have not seen posts from him for ages.

4 days ago (July 2, 2005)

I first suspected him to be in the cooler, but probably he is just having a heart operation or eating idlis at the local shop  bigthumbsup  (Texi, no offence as you know)

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: IAH777
Posted 2005-07-06 19:38:43 and read 4590 times.

IAH's Term D (non-CO int'l arrivals/departures) basically goes unused except for the Eurorush between 1230 and 1600. If they can schedule a flight in the morning, there won't be the crush of other carriers' pax in the terminal. Even if they do decide to arrive amid the established int'l carriers, there's still room.

Personally, I'd love to see AI's tail among LH, KL, BA, PK and AF.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 19:50:53 and read 4568 times.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 23):
Personally, I'd love to see AI's tail among LH, KL, BA, PK and AF

It would make IAH look like the ORD or the LAX of the south. Save for MIA of course.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: DfwRevolution
Posted 2005-07-06 20:01:10 and read 4543 times.

>> Thumbs down on Dallas--better airport ha, Cowboys double ha, I get along fine with the humidity.

I'll only mention this point since you decided to scoff at God's team, but how many playoffs have the Oilers and Texans been to?  eyebrow 

Don't know of any Super Bowl rings when the likes of those two teams printed on them...


All in all... this is Houston's bid to lose. The last article on this topic indicated that Indian business owners in Houston were quite disappointed with how little the city had done to win the bid, while DFW was lobbying like hell, but it now appears that IAH is getting competitive.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-06 20:05:57 and read 4532 times.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
I'll only mention this point since you decided to scoff at God's team, but how many playoffs have the Oilers and Texans been to?

Don't know of any Super Bowl rings when the likes of those two teams printed on them...

Touche Touche  boxedin 

Houston does have the upper hand in this battle--we'll see if HAS can seal the deal.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: IAH777
Posted 2005-07-06 23:21:30 and read 4433 times.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
God's team

If the Cowpokes are "God's team", then why do they suck?  box  stirthepot  scratchchin  flamed 

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: N77014
Posted 2005-07-06 23:24:53 and read 4427 times.

Can we speculate on arrival/departure times? And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other?

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Ssides
Posted 2005-07-07 00:34:31 and read 4385 times.

Quoting N77014 (Reply 28):
And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other

This will be minor. The key factor will be, and almost always is, business travel -- not people going home to see grandma.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Avek00
Posted 2005-07-07 01:22:29 and read 4358 times.

If a flight is run as a one-stop ex-IAH, I'd fully expect it to go via Heathrow and screw the hell out of Gatwick-confined players CO and BA.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Shawnnyc
Posted 2005-07-07 02:04:12 and read 4335 times.

Houston and Dallas have similar sized Indian populations (hastens is marginally bigger). Austin would be third in Indian-American pop...don't Know if anyone in Austin would drive to Dallas. Eventually what ever Indian airline joins Oneworld, it will serve Dallas as it will need some service to India. Look to AI to chose IAH. The flight will go to BOM as the houston population is mostly from BOM/Gujarat areas.

And yes an Indian carrier should buy some slots at LHR and fly IAH-LHR-India.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Toxtethogrady
Posted 2005-07-07 03:48:40 and read 4263 times.

The deal-clincher would be a code-share partner for AI. With Continental starting Newark-Delhi, perhaps they are the logical partner for Air India, which would tend to favor Houston and Air India joining SkyTeam.

Much as I don't like corporate bribery, a lot of smaller airports are doing it to bring in additional air service.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Toxtethogrady
Posted 2005-07-07 03:51:57 and read 4258 times.

"I'd fully expect it to go via Heathrow and screw the hell out of Gatwick-confined players CO and BA."

BA already goes IAH-ORD-LHR.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Avek00
Posted 2005-07-07 03:54:18 and read 4252 times.

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 33):
BA already goes IAH-ORD-LHR

I was referring to NONSTOP flights IAH-London - neither BA nor CO can fly nonstop IAH-LHR.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jdaniel001
Posted 2005-07-07 06:22:55 and read 4170 times.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 27):
If the Cowpokes are "God's team", then why do they suck?

Hey hey...be nice. Everyone knows that the hole in the roof of Texas Stadium is so that God can watch his favarite team! Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2005-07-07 07:59:37 and read 4120 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.

What is your basis for that statement? Why would any foreign carrier want to switch due to a terminal when Houston is a bigger international market.
The terminal does not invent demand.

God can watch his favourite team lose LOL absurd....

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven continents down, none to go

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: IAH777
Posted 2005-07-07 08:26:34 and read 4088 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Everyone knows that the hole in the roof of Texas Stadium is so that God can watch his favarite team!

No, no, no...its to let the stink out.  Smile

Anyhoo...how, exactly, is DFW's D going to take IAH's business? BA runs - what? - ONE flight a day into DFW? *psst!* Don't tell anyone, but IAH has 20/week. And how's DFW's Air France flight doing? What's that? They don't?!? Hmm.... And KLM? Why, yes! IAH gets a daily 747 and a 763 every couple of days.

That Term D at DFW will come in handy for all those Aeromexico and Air Canada flights.  laughing  stirthepot 

OTOH, DFW does get Korean. Gotta give ya that.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Mrniji
Posted 2005-07-07 08:31:12 and read 4077 times.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 37):
OTOH, DFW does get Korean.

Cargo or pax? Big grin

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Thomasphoto60
Posted 2005-07-07 13:35:45 and read 4032 times.

Well it looks as if HAS and local officials are taking the DFW threat a little more seriously than I earlier thought. Let's hope that they keep up the mometum.

Since we are on the subject of air service to the Sub-Continenet, I am wondering what the numbers are looking like on PK's IAH operations?

Thomas

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-07 14:18:31 and read 3999 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.

I needed a laugh first thing this morning.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: COSPN
Posted 2005-07-07 14:29:44 and read 3987 times.

CO will have 1 STOP SERVICE IN OCT..IAH-EWR-DEL ; DFW-EWR-DEL...

Gotta Love CO now all can be happy

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: N77014
Posted 2005-07-07 16:58:17 and read 3923 times.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 29):
Quoting N77014 (Reply 28):
And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other

This will be minor. The key factor will be, and almost always is, business travel -- not people going home to see grandma.

Since when is going to India, even on a leisure fare, cheap?

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: COfaninBOS
Posted 2005-07-07 18:34:37 and read 3872 times.

Glad to hear that the HAS folks are starting to work with regards to Air India and Jet Airways.

Besides having a slightly larger Indian population base, Houston also has the Texas Medical Center, NASA, Port, and Energy related business on our side whereas DFW has the edge with regards to technology/communications businesses.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Commavia
Posted 2005-07-07 18:53:00 and read 3848 times.

In my biased (DFW) opinion, I think DFW has a few things going for it.

While I agree that, at first glance, this is IAH's flight to lose because IAH has more flights to Europe than DFW, DFW does have a few advantages:

1) IAH's flights -- true, IAH does have more flights to Europe on more airlines (particularly from Europe) than DFW, but this may work against IAH. DFW has fewer flights, with fewer airlines, and thus more of an opening for a new entrant. If, for example, AI were to fly BOM-CDG-DFW, not only would they be supplementing AA in a market already underserved, but they would add a new airline into the DFW-Europe mix.

2) DFW Terminal D -- While IAH has also just opened a new International Terminal within the last year, DFW's Terminal D could be a big selling point as it is extremely well laid out, has tons of room to grow, and was designed largely in a post-9/11 world, making onward connections over DFW much easier for incoming AI customers arriving on flights from BOM or CDG, FRA, etc.

3) Incentives -- DFW's Airport Board loves giving away free stuff. They have tons of incentives programs they have come up with over the years, including their plan to move WN over to DFW Terminal E and basically pay their rent and fees for a year or two. From what I have read and heard, IAH is focusing more on getting AI service based on its market size and power, while DFW is focusing more on getting AI based on incentives and, essentially, bribery.

Whether DFW or IAH gets this service, it will be great for Texas. IMO, both cities could easily support direct flights to India, and especially DFW could definitely support another airline flying to Europe, and CDG in particular, which is an already underserved market in both passenger and cargo demand.

I wish both cities luck and look forward to seeing who wins!

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: IAH777
Posted 2005-07-07 19:06:12 and read 3841 times.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 38):
Cargo or pax?

Both, for all I know. Whatever they can cram into the cargo hold on a T7.

Regarding PK's IAH-MAN, did they finally get over that 5th freedom thingy? I wasn't aware one could fly IAH-MAN without continuing on.

BTW, "thingy" is an officially recognized, international aviation term. FYI

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-07 19:19:44 and read 3828 times.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 45):
Regarding PK's IAH-MAN, did they finally get over that 5th freedom thingy? I wasn't aware one could fly IAH-MAN without continuing on

You weren't aware like so many others because PK's marketing for this service is NONEXISTENT. They act as if they don't want to carry passengers. Its my understanding that they do have 5th freedom. I'm sure that most people only know of PKs service to IAH because they saw the 777 at D or they saw the signage when drving up JFK or Will Clayton--even still they may have thought that was a codeshare.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jr
Posted 2005-07-07 20:16:33 and read 3797 times.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 9):
Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys!

Go Cowboys. I do like the texans though... Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the original texans were the AFL's Dallas Texans (now known as the Kansas city chiefs). Hmmmm...

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 37):
No, no, no...its to let the stink out

Actually its to keep the stadium from reaching the resonance frequency of planes approaching 31R doing the stadium approach  Wink

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: N757KW
Posted 2005-07-07 21:19:33 and read 3763 times.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 38):
Cargo or pax?

KE operates both passenger flights and cargo flight out of DFW.

PAX - 3 times a week with B777
Cargo - 7 times a week with B747F

N757KW

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Ssides
Posted 2005-07-07 21:24:03 and read 3760 times.

KE is operating its pax DFW-ICN flights with a 744 during the summer.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Stirling
Posted 2005-07-07 23:22:15 and read 3725 times.

http://www.mla.org/census_map

Great website to end the guessing game of "who" speaks "what" and "where".
We're looking at the primary languages of the Indian sub-continent, Urdu, Hindi, and Gujarathi. (Indian and Pakistani primary languages...could be used for the PIA questions as well)

I am only going to post the three major counties, Harris for Houston, Dallas for Dallas, Tarrant for Ft Worth; but any county in any state can be researched.

HARRIS COUNTY FOREIGN LANGUAGES
English 1,992,143
All languages other than English combined 1,129,856
Spanish or Spanish Creole 898,885
Vietnamese 51,177
Chinese 29,259
French (incl. Patois, Cajun) 15,815
African languages 12,706
Urdu 12,601
Tagalog 11,466
Arabic 11,317
German 9,438
Other Indic languages 7,697
Other Asian languages 7,653
Korean 7,026
Hindi 6,544
Persian 5,389
Gujarathi 5,190
Russian 3,476
Japanese 2,953
Portuguese or Portuguese Creole 2,606
Italian 2,597
Greek 2,401
Mon-Khmer, Cambodian 2,216
Other Indo-European languages 2,143
Polish 2,071

DALLAS COUNTY FOREIGN LANGUAGES
English 1,375,049
All languages other than English combined 663,276
Spanish or Spanish Creole 539,570
Vietnamese 18,009
African languages 11,850
Chinese 10,980
Korean 8,269
Other Asian languages 7,635
French (incl. Patois, Cajun) 7,172
German 6,088
Other Indic languages 5,159
Arabic 5,129
Urdu 5,062
Tagalog 4,337
Hindi 3,727
Gujarathi 3,185
Persian 2,649
Mon-Khmer, Cambodian 2,386
Laotian 2,337
Japanese 2,127
Russian 2,023

TARRANT COUNTY FOREIGN LANGUAGES
English 1,040,888
All languages other than English combined 291,167
Spanish or Spanish Creole 218,616
Vietnamese 17,207
Chinese 5,206
French (incl. Patois, Cajun) 5,138
German 4,690
Arabic 4,085
Laotian 3,573
African languages 3,566
Urdu 2,794
Korean 2,661
Other Asian languages 2,392
Tagalog 2,385
Other Indic languages 1,657
Hindi 1,496
Gujarathi 1,467
Serbo-Croatian 1,291
Other Indo-European languages 1,251
Persian 1,228
Other Pacific Island languages 1,085
Mon-Khmer, Cambodian 973

In Summary:

..............Gujarath Hindi Urdu Total
Harris 5,190 6,544 12,601 24,335
Dallas 3,185 3,727 5,062 11,974
Tarrant 1,467 1,496 2,794 5,757

Harris County still has a significantly larger population making it a much wiser choice based on O&D alone.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Toxtethogrady
Posted 2005-07-10 05:39:25 and read 3549 times.

"Everyone knows that the hole in the roof of Texas Stadium is so that God can watch his favarite team!"

Or piss on them. Must be why they want a new stadium.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: FlyingTexan
Posted 2005-07-10 05:54:40 and read 3538 times.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 5):
"‘Houston has the largest concentration of Asian Indians in Texas. It is the location of one of the five Government of India Consular Offices in the US. So, the city deserves to have a direct connecting flight from India,’’ he said."

To add ~ Houston has more foreign consulates save for NY and LA.




and...



 spin 

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Toxtethogrady
Posted 2005-07-10 06:03:14 and read 3528 times.

That map's pretty cool. However, to make the numbers more complete, Fort Bend, Collin and Denton Counties must be included. I think Metro Houston is still ahead of Dallas-Fort Worth in the relevant language categories.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-07-10 06:10:18 and read 3517 times.

Pretty cool map..but I'm not sure how accurate it is..

I think it "under reports" some locations..for example..the Chicagoland area..

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Mrniji
Posted 2005-07-10 06:11:53 and read 3513 times.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 45):
BTW, "thingy" is an officially recognized, international aviation term. FYI

 Wink - really? What does it mean? Thx for letting me know (though I used it synomymous with thing here  Wink )

Quoting Stirling (Reply 50):
Great website to end the guessing game of "who" speaks "what" and "where".
We're looking at the primary languages of the Indian sub-continent, Urdu, Hindi, and Gujarathi. (Indian and Pakistani primary languages...could be used for the PIA questions as well)

Stirling, thanks for these interesting numbers! Btw: not every URDU-speaker must be a Pakistani (could be from India, too). Not every PUNJABI speaker must be from India (as the biggest part lies in Pakistan, we often forget). So, it is difficult for us to distinguish between PIOs (Person of India Origin) and PPOs (P Pakistani O).. another indicator that shows that linguistic attributes are amongst the most important for every person!

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Stirling
Posted 2005-07-10 08:17:47 and read 3465 times.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 55):
Btw: not every URDU-speaker must be a Pakistani (could be from India, too). Not every PUNJABI speaker must be from India (as the biggest part lies in Pakistan, we often forget). So, it is difficult for us to distinguish between PIOs (Person of India Origin) and PPOs (P Pakistani O)

Exactly. It's why I included ALL the major US Census recognized languages of the region since linguistic attributes do not necessarily follow the arbitray lines of national borders.
The data I provided is to build a very basic visual foundation to the arguments that "City A has more Country X ex-pats than City B, and therefore should be the next city chosed by Airline Y".

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 53):
However, to make the numbers more complete, Fort Bend, Collin and Denton Counties must be included. I think Metro Houston is still ahead of Dallas-Fort Worth in the relevant language categories

I was thinking of posting all the relevant counties.
But I feel the story is told well enough, that with just one county, the Houston Metro still leads the Metroplex in South Central Asian Languages.

BTW, zipcodes can used instead of counties.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 54):
Pretty cool map..but I'm not sure how accurate it is..
I think it "under reports" some locations..for example..the Chicagoland area..

Why do you think it's not accurate? The information comes from Census data. I don't know how much more accurate we can hope for...

I don't understand your last sentence.
Are you saying the data for the Chicago area is suspect? And if so, what is the basis for your dispute?

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: COfaninBOS
Posted 2005-07-10 19:52:46 and read 3395 times.

What a great website. Thanks for the link!

I was curious to see what the neighboring counties might to do the calculations since much of DFW's growth has been in the northern part of the metroplex in Denton and Colin Counties. Here's what I found.

Houston area counties used were Brazoria, Chambers, Ft Bend, Galveston, Harris, Liberty, Montgomery, and Waller.

DFW area counties used were Collin, Dallas, Denton, Ellis, Hunt, Johnson, Kaufman, Parker, Rockwall, Tarrant, and Wise.

Total # of Gujarathi, Hindi, and Urdu speakers

34,531 Houston area
24,905 DFW area

Here's the county breakdown in ranked order for total speakers

24,335 Harris County (home to Houston) with 3,121,999 total poluation
11,974 Dallas County and 2,038,325 total
8,703 Fort Bend (suburban SW Houston) and 327,666 total
5,757 Tarrant (Ft Worth) and 1,332,055 total
3,934 Collin (Plano area north of Dallas) and 449,510 total
2,898 Denton (suburbs north of FW) and 397,853 total
626 Galveston (SE of Houston) and 232,804
457 Montgomery (Woodlands area N of Houston) and 271,298 total
393 Brazoria (suburban county S of Houston) and 223,313 total
183 Rockwall (west of Dallas) and 39,930 total

the rest of the counties had less than 100 total speakers combined with several having zero speakers (Chambers in Houston area and Johnson and Wise in DFW)

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Texdravid
Posted 2005-07-11 19:32:43 and read 3336 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 2):
I agree--I think that ultimately I think Air India will chose IAH and Jet will chose DFW.



If that is the case, then DFW is the winner hands down!! I would take Jet anyday over AI.

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 3):
I would suspect that you'll see AI do a DEL-FRA-DFW-IAH initally with a move to separate flights for each city should demand warrant

I would love to see this intially for many reasons. AI could hedge their Texas bets. DFW would get the inbound nonstop and IAH would get the outbound nonstop.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 15):
for the matter of politeness, I will suggest to route the flight from MAA instead of DEL, coz otherwise TexDravid won't take it, eh?

Thanks for thinking of me, Mrniji!!

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 20):
btw, where is he? have not seen posts from him for ages.

I spent the past week OFF!! First vacation in 6 months. Flew IAH-DEN-KONA and back on UA. My family flew DFW-HNL-KONA and back.

My family and I think I got the better deal because I got TWO movies and TWO meals for free on my UA flight between Kona and Denver, while even on the long sector HNL-DFW on AA you had to PAY for meals!!


My assessment on the India-Texas deal is that IAH will win, unfortunately. Growing up in the DFW area, I have no confidence in the DFW officials to pull this off. IAH officials have population/O&D advantages that DFW cannot match even with incentives or bribes.

DFW is really a market for 787 thrice weekly service rather than 777/A340 7x/week service, IMHO.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-11 20:22:04 and read 3299 times.

While I am a Houstonian till the end--and don't care for Dallas too much--I would still like to see DFW get some exotic service. So good luck Dallas--on getting ONE and only one of the carriers.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: JCS17
Posted 2005-07-11 20:48:17 and read 3276 times.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 59):
While I am a Houstonian till the end--and don't care for Dallas too much--I would still like to see DFW get some exotic service.

Ughhh, if Houston isn't the hole of the world I don't know what is. Yeah, Houston is a great town if you love miles of traffic, pollution, 100% humidity, and square mile after square mile of ghetto.  Wink

Anyway, I just think this whole thing is lame in DFW's case. We're chasing Air India?! C'mon. What a joke. It goes to show how toothless the Airport Board really is.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Drerx7
Posted 2005-07-11 21:37:46 and read 3245 times.

Dallas sucks--how bout that JCS--mile after mile of ghetto--Oak Cliff anyone?
 box  Dallas is one of the most boring towns I've been to.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Bartond
Posted 2005-07-11 22:16:02 and read 3240 times.

WOW, I'm really surprised it took 60 replies to get down to the BS mudslinging between the two cities. FYI guys - NEITHER city is a real "fun" place to visit. That's a fact from a Dallas native (Denver now) and have spent quite a bit of time in Houston, too. Not much to talk about on either end of that argument.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Saigonhouston
Posted 2005-07-11 22:19:34 and read 3225 times.

Quoting JSC17:
"square mile after square mile of ghetto."

So, do you want to know what I think about Dallas? I would said square mile after square mile of redneck and cow people.

Don't even try to underestimate Houston. When was your last time visit or tours city of Houston? We got so much change with our city image. From housing, freeway constructions, business, yet more and more high end retail open their door in the Galleria shopping center (Dior by Christian Dior, Caroline Herrera, David Yurman are to just newly added to Galleria in 2005)

saigonhouston

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: B747-437B
Posted 2005-07-12 00:23:41 and read 3177 times.

The biggest disadvantage that DFW has going for it is AA's fortress hub. International carriers that rely on interline connectivity do not receive as favorable SPAs from AA as they do from CO in Houston. Unless the DFW catchment area alone can justify the traffic, you make more money flying passengers to Houston and connecting them north than you do the other way around.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Texdravid
Posted 2005-07-12 00:33:58 and read 3171 times.

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 64):
The biggest disadvantage that DFW has going for it is AA's fortress hub

Disagree. The biggest problem is the smaller Indian community, not AA. AA will try to blow others out of the water on domestic flights, but not on this international routing. Furthermore, AI could do something AA couldn't do...fly DFW-LHR, the gold nirvana to some regular American travelers. I'm not saying these guys would consider AI, but it is another option.

I am convinced that IAH's bigger Indian population and more mature international market will make AI more comfortable about success in this new market. CO's hold on the IAH market won't matter.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Thomasphoto60
Posted 2005-07-12 00:59:54 and read 3141 times.

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 60):
Ughhh, if Houston isn't the hole of the world I don't know what is

I would strongly suggest that you get out more.

Thomas

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: B747-437B
Posted 2005-07-12 02:13:43 and read 3113 times.

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 65):
AA will try to blow others out of the water on domestic flights, but not on this international routing.

You don't understand the point I am trying to make. You cannot be succesful at DFW without interlining with AA. Interlining with AA is not a particularly lucrative business since AA are well known in the industry for their unfavorable SPAs. CO on the other hand offer SPAs at lower yield which allows the gateway carrier greater revenue retention. In the end, its all about the bottomline.

As long as AA dominates DFW (and the dominance is now complete with DL withdrawing their hub operation), that will continue to discourage any new international carriers from choosing Dallas over Houston unless the O&D projections for Dallas are sufficient to sustain profitability. This isn't just an India specific phenomenon, it holds true for any market. Miami faces the same problems to a large extent, except that their primary market (LatAm) has a huge O&D that allows them to overcome it.

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: Stirling
Posted 2005-07-12 07:07:28 and read 3034 times.

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 67):
AA are well known in the industry for their unfavorable SPAs. CO on the other hand offer SPAs at lower yield which allows the gateway carrier greater revenue retention. In the end, its all about the bottomline.

Sorry for being ignorant, but what is a SPA?

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 61):
Dallas is one of the most boring towns I've been to.

Really? You must have had a lousy tour-guide. Dallas is a great place if you know where to go!

Quoting JCS17 (Reply 60):
if Houston isn't the hole of the world I don't know what is

Growing up in the Big D, I was taught to hate 2 things; Fort Worth, and Houston. I still don't care for Fort Worth, but have learned to appreciate "The Big Burg on the Bayou".

Topic: RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service
Username: B747-437B
Posted 2005-07-12 13:28:26 and read 2999 times.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 68):
what is a SPA?

SPA = Special Prorate Agreement

An SPA is an agreement between airlines that decides what proportion the revenue is split when an interline takes place. AA is not known for offering favorable SPAs to other carriers, while CO tends to be more generous.


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