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Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JetCaptain
Posted 2005-08-02 22:10:37 and read 98043 times.

Just listening to YYZ approach on LiveATC.com.

ATC reports aircraft off the runway. Any further info ?

JC

[Edited 2005-08-02 22:21:54]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ChrisA330
Posted 2005-08-02 22:19:35 and read 97992 times.

Believed to be an Air France jet...

News reports are trickling in now...reports of smoke/fire.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BWIA330
Posted 2005-08-02 22:25:23 and read 97936 times.

Just heard it on 680 news. They said its an unconfirmed report that its an Air France jet. Has to be the daily 340 from CDG. They said its on fire.

Regards.

BWIA330

whats the yyz atc website that I can listen to? That website doesnt work.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JCS17
Posted 2005-08-02 22:25:50 and read 97926 times.

I just heard it on Fan590.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Yyz717
Posted 2005-08-02 22:26:09 and read 97920 times.

Local news reporting an AF aircraft (343 I presume) ran off end of runway on landing in the rain. Nosewheel collapse and fire on board.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Accargo
Posted 2005-08-02 22:26:21 and read 97918 times.

Air France acft off runway and on fire. YYZ closed

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ChrisA330
Posted 2005-08-02 22:26:50 and read 97904 times.

My brother is on the 401 parellel to the runway - reporting "a ton of smoke" and he couldn't see the aircraft yet. Will try and get more information.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JetCaptain
Posted 2005-08-02 22:27:28 and read 97891 times.

Live pictures now on CTV News Net, Air France A340, on fire, doesn't look good.

JC

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-02 22:28:54 and read 97873 times.

Live audio on TV.

http://www.pulse24.com/plugins/live_audio/cp24audio.asx

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Fly_yhm
Posted 2005-08-02 22:29:46 and read 97850 times.

I've just herd of report of Possible Lufthansa Flight its on Cable Pulse 24 and there is Smoke and fire

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-02 22:30:37 and read 97820 times.

Turn on CNN
.
.
.

Mark

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 22:30:52 and read 97819 times.

First lines are coming across the AP wire right now. Motorists on the 401 indicating that "this is not a small plane."

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Fly_yhm
Posted 2005-08-02 22:31:07 and read 97806 times.

Now can see that its Air France.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: C-GRYK
Posted 2005-08-02 22:31:23 and read 97800 times.

Turn on CP24 looks like its off 24R in the ditch off the end on the perimeter road! Air France A340..... it's on fire as we speak!

Jeremy

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JetCaptain
Posted 2005-08-02 22:32:52 and read 97743 times.

CNN reporting it live as well, saying it is a Lufthansa B737. However it is definately an Air France A340.

JC

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jtamu97
Posted 2005-08-02 22:33:12 and read 97725 times.

The wonderful media is reporting a 737..Yeah right.Hopefully it will not be too bad

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mtnmanmakalu
Posted 2005-08-02 22:33:53 and read 97680 times.

GEEZ!! It sure has been a rough past few days for widebodies landing in bad weather!! Hopefully it won't be raining in MSP when I fly back to work next week!!!

mtnman

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ANstar
Posted 2005-08-02 22:34:48 and read 97613 times.

Just watching CNN, seems like the whole plane is on fie. Loads of smoke. Doesn;t look good. Hope some people managed to get away ok.

ANstar

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KLMA330
Posted 2005-08-02 22:36:50 and read 97471 times.

I am looking at the smoke right now, as I work in a building only a few hundred feet away!!!!!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2005-08-02 22:37:07 and read 97452 times.

They seem to be pretty sure it's a Lufthansa 737...sigh...

Hope there aren't too many casualties, any word on that?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: B742
Posted 2005-08-02 22:39:26 and read 97287 times.

WOW shocking!

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...005/08/02/pearson-plane050802.html

Anyone know the reg of today's YYZ flight?

Approx. 200 people on board, any casulities?

Rob!  Sad

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:39:48 and read 97258 times.

Holy crap...this is ugly. The thing is still burning.

They are saying that this can't be a 737. They are now calling it an Airbus and a LH bird.

I think I see a winglet.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Yhz78
Posted 2005-08-02 22:39:53 and read 97244 times.

CTV Newsnet is reporting Lufthansa A340 overran on landing. Possible lightning strike. Approximately 200 on board.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Airlinelover
Posted 2005-08-02 22:40:13 and read 97208 times.

Lufthansa would not have a 737 at YYZ..

It's an Air France A340-300.. Just saw it on TV.. (not reported by them)

Chris

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 22:41:29 and read 97082 times.

CNN is saying A330 or 340

Also saying Lufthansa

Showing live footage from traffic cam on 401

Not sure if t/o or landing

CBC Newsworld is live with footage as well

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:41:34 and read 97063 times.

Now the police are saying Air France

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ANstar
Posted 2005-08-02 22:41:44 and read 97035 times.

Skynews is saying the AP agency says it is an Air France plane. Ran into trouble on landing.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2005-08-02 22:41:59 and read 96988 times.

Ok, now they're saying Air France Airbus...good enough for me.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: 777XI
Posted 2005-08-02 22:42:11 and read 96962 times.

CNN is finally discounting the "737" thought thanks to one reporter who actually knows something about aviation (is talking about the A330/A340).

AP is saying that it is an Air France A340, not LH.

Blitzer just called it a "Seven Three Thirty Seven"...greeeat.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LHZXF
Posted 2005-08-02 22:42:19 and read 96946 times.

LH737 to YYZ.... please. Our thoughts are with all on board.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-02 22:42:49 and read 96870 times.

Is this it?

Airline Air France
Flight Number 358
Departure City (Airport) Paris, France (LFPG)
Departure Time 08/02/2005 01:15 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Toronto, ON, Canada (YYZ)
Arrival Time 08/02/2005 04:07 PM
Remaining Flight Time 00:00
Aircraft Type A343
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Arrived

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Yyz717
Posted 2005-08-02 22:43:08 and read 96839 times.

CP24 has a live cam on site. It's def an AF 343. The fuselage is burning out.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jtamu97
Posted 2005-08-02 22:43:09 and read 96835 times.

GET THIS GUY OFF THE AUDIO!! HE HAS no clue what he is doing.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: OHLHD
Posted 2005-08-02 22:43:25 and read 96798 times.

They are speaking about A340 now on CNN.

Horrible accident.

It was about to land and came into some kind of trouble. quotes from CNN

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rootsgirl
Posted 2005-08-02 22:43:43 and read 96748 times.

The livery looks white so does the tail, Air France A 340? It is terrible, it appears the fire engines cant get near it and I am watching it just burn before my eyes, as I watch it...it has gone from having a fuselage, and now, it looks beyond anything! Terrible, seems no escape slide inflated.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: USAFHummer
Posted 2005-08-02 22:43:51 and read 96725 times.

MSNBC is calling it an AF flight, CNN is saying either AF or LH...

Greg

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:05 and read 96695 times.

Now on the BBC News 24; right wing/winglet clearly visible; not much more. Aircraft engulfed in flames.

AF 358, Scheduled arrival time 3.35pm. A340-300.

Fire crews now spraying acft with foam.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:15 and read 96656 times.

Doesn't look good, plane in ravine, broken apart, hoping for a lot of survivors....

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:19 and read 96644 times.

Shit, we saw the AF A340 land last weekend...how awful.

I will pray for survivors.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Accargo
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:23 and read 96633 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 30):

That's it, in ravine at end of 25L. Smoke still pouring from fuselage.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:44 and read 96593 times.

Pearson saying AF358.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Krisyyz
Posted 2005-08-02 22:44:58 and read 96547 times.

Peel regional police confirming that it is an Air France Airbus A340. Lighting strikes and heavy down pours where reported at the time the AF A340 over-ran the runway 24L. The plane is still on fire with heavy smoke.

Praying that everyone is okay.

Krisyyz

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 22:46:20 and read 96273 times.

I hope every body is ok.

Drew

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tockeyhockey
Posted 2005-08-02 22:47:39 and read 96024 times.

can anyone who is there or watching it confirm that no escape slides deployed?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UAXDXer
Posted 2005-08-02 22:48:14 and read 95932 times.

Good Hell... watching Fox News and Neil Cavuto just asks "Is the Toronto Airport a safe place to land?"

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AA B777-200
Posted 2005-08-02 22:48:24 and read 95901 times.

Is it just me, or is it taking FOREVER to get that one Firefighting closer?????

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-08-02 22:48:38 and read 95854 times.

they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pilatusguy
Posted 2005-08-02 22:48:45 and read 95833 times.

any live video feed on the net?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:05 and read 95773 times.

CTV website is overloaded. Can't get into the article about the incident.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:13 and read 95743 times.

AF 358 type 343 as being reported by MSNBC at this time. Anyone got a live ATC feed link to hear what is happening at YYZ.


Sean from MCO and MKE

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:26 and read 95687 times.

Looks like this could be windshear-related accident...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: OHLHD
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:28 and read 95682 times.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 43):
can anyone who is there or watching it confirm that no escape slides deployed?

The camera is too far away to see, as smoke is also heavy.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YVR99
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:47 and read 95621 times.

CBC Newsworld is showing 401 traffic cams and fuselage is still in flames more than an hour after it first crashed...
Definitely an AF 340. Speculation is of a lightning strike or other weather related cause.
Only 200 pax? Clearly the flight wasn't full today... that's clearly a good thing

YVR99

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aerobalance
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:53 and read 95596 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 46):
they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

Who's 'they'?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aither
Posted 2005-08-02 22:49:52 and read 95594 times.

Damn... hope many have survived... the fuselage seems about together.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tockeyhockey
Posted 2005-08-02 22:50:02 and read 95565 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 46):
they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

who is reporting this?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:50:17 and read 95508 times.

I can't make out from the television picture about any slides. The thing is still burning, though. There's a vertical stab. sticking out.

Plenty of EMS on scene.

Smoke is still partially dark, but it looks like the fires are dying down now.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UAXDXer
Posted 2005-08-02 22:50:18 and read 95497 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 46):
they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

Who said that?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mbm3
Posted 2005-08-02 22:50:47 and read 95372 times.

My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone on board. Based on the current pics on the news sites this unfortunately looks to be a major catastrophe.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RJpieces
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:00 and read 95321 times.

Looks like the fire is starting to come under control....Were pax evacuated before the fire became serious? Any word at all?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MAAN
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:26 and read 95208 times.

Sky News: "it does appear that some sort of difficulty has befallen this plane."

Good lord.

They've finally got hold of the aircraft type and operator, although they're not reporting a flight number as yet.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:35 and read 95165 times.

Just got it on the Argentine news. Sad images arriving  Sad
They are saying that there are unconfirmed rumours that a passenger might have attempted to take control of the aircraft??

Whatever te reasons, terrible news  Sad

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: B4real
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:40 and read 95136 times.

Quoting UAXDXer (Reply 57):
Who said that?

Some dingo that thinks they know something about an airplane on the streaming radio link listed above.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flashmeister
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:42 and read 95129 times.

CTV has an expert on that's being very careful now about terrorism and jumping to conclusions, and he mentioned that most lightning strikes should be fairly routine... but he also said that the A340 has a built-in firefighting system, which is true for cargo, but not for people...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-08-02 22:51:46 and read 95114 times.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 55):
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 46):
they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

who is reporting this?

the lifestream CNN audio....

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-02 22:52:08 and read 95006 times.

MR GOD, just seen CNN, Hope there are surviors


My god!!!!!!!!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RJ111
Posted 2005-08-02 22:52:11 and read 94990 times.

I hope to hear of many survivors.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RJpieces
Posted 2005-08-02 22:52:32 and read 94898 times.

Any word on the exact time it crashed? I tuned into CNN about 5-10 minutes ago and they were reporting a Lufthansa 737, so I assume it just happened.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TPASXM787
Posted 2005-08-02 22:52:57 and read 94791 times.

I can only get so much online here at work...terrible.

Hopes and prayers that all survived.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Supa7E7
Posted 2005-08-02 22:54:43 and read 94353 times.

Winds at YYZ are N - 42 km/h, quite windy. Raining.

{{{{{{{{{ AF PAX }}}}}}}}}

get out.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JMV
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:36 and read 94121 times.

Watching it live through a feed on www.clickondetroit.com. Still see flames periodically.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Bar032
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:38 and read 94116 times.

Definitly an A343. The first potentially fatal accident with the type. Very sad day for aviation, especially since there have been so few serious incidents/accidents lately.

/BAR032

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:42 and read 94097 times.

Have they closed the airport? Where will they divert aircraft if so?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: A300 American
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:42 and read 94098 times.

Hello All,

I´m hearing its an AirFrance wide bodied jet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8801092/

Hope all is well.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Blackhawk144
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:51 and read 94070 times.

Oh boy, this is bad...I certainly hope there are survivors... Sad I'm kind of surprised CNN said that there is little optimism for any survivors. I didn't look THAT bad, but this is a 14 year old talking, I could be very wrong.

Anthony

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rootsgirl
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:55 and read 94050 times.

Who said terrorism? Lightening is what they are saying and I am sitting here in Toronto. The thing that scares me, I saw it before it was totally engulfed, and it did not seem to have doors open or slides deployed. Is it my imagination or cant the fire engines get to it?????????????? It seems to be burning into a shell

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flashmeister
Posted 2005-08-02 22:55:59 and read 94031 times.

How do we know that today's loads were only at 200? What's the source?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: CainanUK
Posted 2005-08-02 22:56:05 and read 94009 times.

This dont look good. Think that an evacuation looks like it would have been really damned difficult. Prayers for the victims and their families, but I wouldnt hold out much hope.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:57:43 and read 93669 times.

Pilot is alive debriefing

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: N737af
Posted 2005-08-02 22:58:25 and read 93514 times.

I know I'll be skinned alive for speculating, but wasn't the windshear crash at DFW exactly 20 years ago today??

N737AF

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TPASXM787
Posted 2005-08-02 22:58:29 and read 93496 times.

have the video...smoke still pouring out of the A340

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Blasphemystic
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:18 and read 93262 times.

Flight #358 is what they are saying.
All I can do is say a prayer for all involved as I am watching it live on CNN.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DC10rules
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:20 and read 93249 times.

Fox News is reporting that both pilots survived...lets pray for many more survivors.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:25 and read 93225 times.

The news says that the pilot and copilot are being debriefed. That would indicate they are alive. REgularly sked AF A340 with 200 pax is latest update.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AKelley728
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:25 and read 93224 times.

Quoting Jtamu97 (Reply 32):
GET THIS GUY OFF THE AUDIO!! HE HAS no clue what he is doing.

At least he's better than the woman doing the interview (Quote from her: "the ailerons would be used to stop the aircraft" - at least he corrected her on that).

Anyway, my prayers are with everyone out there.  pray   pray 

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mbm3
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:31 and read 93201 times.

I too find it odd that there doesnt seem to be any slides deployed or the like. How unfortunate for all involved. Tragic.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 22:59:44 and read 93152 times.

CFRB saying that people have made it off of the plane.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2005-08-02 23:00:00 and read 93083 times.

CNN is now running a comparison to L-1011 at DFW now...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cainanuk
Posted 2005-08-02 23:00:06 and read 93052 times.

Reports are surfacing of survivors according to Sky News

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UAXDXer
Posted 2005-08-02 23:00:08 and read 93052 times.

Fox news reporting that the pilots are out & safe.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Sleekjet
Posted 2005-08-02 23:00:17 and read 93012 times.

Yes, this is 20 years to the day since the Delta 191 crash at DFW.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rootsgirl
Posted 2005-08-02 23:00:34 and read 92919 times.

Air France Fl 358 - Paris to Toronto. Pearson closed.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Muchswatch
Posted 2005-08-02 23:01:06 and read 92723 times.

it looks really bad.  Sad God bless all on board.


Jay

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: IwantaBBJ
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:06 and read 92367 times.

Can anyone else see the white foam appearing on the lower left of the picture?

Mike

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:17 and read 92305 times.

damn, big explosion...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:22 and read 92269 times.

fire is still on. wow

Just hope everybody made it.

Drew

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Slider
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:24 and read 92253 times.

AF flight 358 CDG-YYZ from CNN.

CNN's coverage sucks.

Can't see much of anything from the single angle they've got. Camera is from the opposite side of 24L from across the freeway, zooming in intermittently.

Lot of smoke, can't see any slides, and the chances for survival may be more based on fire and smoke rather than crash impact itself from early indication.

Prayers to all onboard.

They mentioned there were t-storms in area prior to crash.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rootsgirl
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:25 and read 92244 times.

Thank God there are some survivors, I was very chilled and concerned.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Texan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:29 and read 92208 times.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 76):
How do we know that today's loads were only at 200?

Air France lists seating capacity of the 340-300 at 252 pax. Most ops at YYZ had been halted due to severe thunderstorms, more info as it comes in.

Texan

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Indy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:02:37 and read 92160 times.

Is it possible that everyone was already off the plane before it burst into flames?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SDLSimme
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:06 and read 91985 times.

Looks nasty. May god be with the pax and the people trying to rescue them...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TrappedInMKG
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:19 and read 91888 times.

Our local news (WWMT Channel 3 in Kalamazoo...asshats) is reporting that the aircraft is a "Boeing 737 with about 200 people on board."

Naturally, that begs two questions:

1. How in the hell did they get a 737 CDG-YYZ under normal operating procedures?

2. Two hundred people on a 737 on a long-haul route, eh? Legroom? What legroom?

Morons. When reporting on aviation-related issues, it should be standard procedure to check with A.net first. We always have more reliable information, and we can at least get our facts straight. In fact, Johan should start an aviation fact-checking service. I'd certainly sign up to work it.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:25 and read 91854 times.

CNN Latin America is reporting that apparently there are no fatal victims or badly injured pax or crew  Smile  Smile

hopefully this will be confirmed soon!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Clickhappy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:38 and read 91782 times.

Why did it take them so long to get the fire out  Sad


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AirbusfanYYZ
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:43 and read 91747 times.

Air France's daily A340-300 flight AF358 has overrun 24R at YYZ.
The flight is currently in a ravine among the trees west of the the threshold of 6L. Pax loads around 200 was released by airport officials. Unfortunately the location isn't the most easily accessible as many fellow YYZ spotters can attest to.

I hope and pray that there are survivors.

Temps in Toronto today 35C (with humidex 43C). Lots of strong t-storms and lightning as well as wind shear reported. In addition, there was a lengthy groundstop earlier due to the above conditions.

Cheers,
Kaz

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:51 and read 91699 times.

Windshear was the cause of the DL L1011 crash in DFW. This is a possible cause to this incident. I have not seen anything posted that YYZ is closed. CNN on the TV is got the view from the camera on the 401 overlooking the site. Newsconference coming up shortly by the GTAA.



Sean from MCO and MKE

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: CV580Freak
Posted 2005-08-02 23:03:54 and read 91686 times.

Reports on SKY News via CBC that survivors getting off and are under "bridge over the ravine" , no numbers quoted.

CBC had people at YYZ filming the bad weather, lightning and heavy rain when they saw it run off end of runway.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BSU747
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:08 and read 91598 times.

If it is the regular AF flight into Toronto AF358, a friend of mine picked it up on ACARS this lunchtime over the UK as F-GLZQ.

BSU747

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:21 and read 91512 times.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 102):
CNN Latin America is reporting that apparently there are no fatal victims or badly injured pax or crew

Great news! I really, really hope that it is true!

Patrick

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Backfire
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:29 and read 91471 times.

Quoting Jtamu97 (Reply 15):
The wonderful media is reporting a 737

Give the media a break. This is the same guesswork I usually see on A.net  Yeah sure

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:29 and read 91467 times.

CBC Newsworld is not yet reporting any survivors.

Pearson is completely closed.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:40 and read 91413 times.

Fire still going, just seen a HUGE explosion from the right side of the plane while i was on ITV NEWS

At least there are reports of surviors

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BA767s
Posted 2005-08-02 23:04:56 and read 91316 times.

Its on BBC news here in the UK at the moment, 22:00hrs.

John

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:05:21 and read 91170 times.

Police saying that there are injuries, but no fatalities.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Palladium
Posted 2005-08-02 23:05:25 and read 91143 times.

The plane came in without any problem and skid off on the runway due to severe thunderstorm weather and poor visibility. The Airplane is A340-300, not A330 or B737 or Lufthansa either.

I hope there will be some survivors =( Any words on the number of casualties yet?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 23:05:40 and read 91057 times.

Global TV news say that pilots are alive....nothing on PAX yet.

291 persons on the plane being reported now. Ambulance busses pulling away from site with evacuees.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-02 23:06:32 and read 90775 times.

just saw a major fire ball

hopefully nobody hurt

firefighters will probably be even more carefull..

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Bhxfaotipyyc
Posted 2005-08-02 23:06:37 and read 90749 times.

Bizarre these days how the most important thing on these TV news channels is to grab the first "expert" in their phone book, and get him to talk total crap and utterly speculate on events. The only thing missing is facts.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UAXDXer
Posted 2005-08-02 23:06:44 and read 90694 times.

Quoting Sleekjet (Reply 90):
Yes, this is 20 years to the day since the Delta 191 crash at DFW.

All early indications point towards the same thing (windshear/micro bursts) that brought down Delta 191.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:06:44 and read 90691 times.

I have not heard reports of survivors on Canadian news - on CBC Newsworld or CTV. I am hoping it is true that there are survivors!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cubedweller
Posted 2005-08-02 23:06:59 and read 90600 times.

I hope this is more like the Mandarin Airlines crash in HK a few years ago that looked horrific but miraculously only three people lost their lives.

Of course the best outcome would be if everyone survives. We can only pray.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2005-08-02 23:07:13 and read 90528 times.

BBC Ten o'clock News at least being cautious on its facts, reporting an Air France A340, skidded off the runway, with unconfirmed reports that about 200 people on board and no news of casualties.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 23:07:33 and read 90411 times.

The secondary explosion was probably an engine or fuel tank. They are now evacuating a larger area around the area.

They are repeating the 291 pax number.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:07:45 and read 90347 times.

Noone on the TV has given any definite info as to survivors and crew and such. Hopefully there will be some vital info shortly from the GTAA for all to get an idea as to whats happening.



Sean from MCO and MKE

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jamman
Posted 2005-08-02 23:07:55 and read 90282 times.

BBC News 24 talking about thunderstorms over the airport, could this be a possible weather related problem after landing? heavy rain fall before landing could suddenly change the runway condition, i.e. they were prepared for it?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Siafan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:08:15 and read 90155 times.

Quoting N737af (Reply 79):
I know I'll be skinned alive for speculating, but wasn't the windshear crash at DFW exactly 20 years ago today??

Was that the DL L1011?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2005-08-02 23:08:31 and read 90065 times.

Wow, they just said it was 20 years to the day of DL191 (L1011 down at DFW)..eerie.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 23:08:36 and read 90025 times.

How many pax does an A343 carry? How many crew? How valid is this number?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Phatfarmlines
Posted 2005-08-02 23:08:53 and read 89905 times.

I'm watching it on CNN. Can anyone tell what area of YYZ the accident occured? Also, this accident falls on the same day as the 20th anniversary of DL 191 at DFW.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Blackbird1331
Posted 2005-08-02 23:08:55 and read 89892 times.

CNN: A340. Not good. Wind shear probably the cause.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:09:12 and read 89792 times.

MSNBC now posting there are believed to be survivors.

Sean

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:09:18 and read 89764 times.

Online story from Reuters is headlined "Plane misses runway, aflame at Toronto airport" but text says it landed and ran off the end of 24L.

The first couple hours after a major deal such as things if rife with goofiness and inaccurate reporting, as the talking heads on TV look for something to say to fill up the air time....

Hope everyone survived....

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL713
Posted 2005-08-02 23:09:36 and read 89647 times.

My god, that explosion was horrible. I'm praying for the passengers, just hoping they all survived, but this is certainly looking really bad.  Sad

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Goose
Posted 2005-08-02 23:10:12 and read 89440 times.

There's a view of the aircraft from this Ontario Highways webcam, updated every 90 seconds.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Sebring
Posted 2005-08-02 23:10:19 and read 89396 times.

Activity picking up at the airport. Planes now getting ready for takeoff. Storms have largely departed the vicinity. Certainly using other runways.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Indy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:10:22 and read 89378 times.

My guess is that there have been injuries sustained during the exiting from the plane. That seems to happen all to often. If the plane was on fire and people were in a bigger hurry to get out I'd imagine the injuries sustained upon exit were larger in number. I hope that is just it. Hopefully nothing else.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2005-08-02 23:10:50 and read 89207 times.

UPDATED 1710 EDT

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050802/D8BNTU282.html

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Texan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:11:04 and read 89111 times.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 103):
Why did it take them so long to get the fire out

Once fires start burning on an airplane they just have to wait it out. It burns too hot to get close enough to it to make a difference, and the jet fuel cannot be extinguished when lit. They have to wait for the fire to burn itself out.

Texan

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Zkojh
Posted 2005-08-02 23:11:16 and read 89034 times.

getting more bits as it comes,

Air France A340, AF#358 CDG to YYZ

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YULQC
Posted 2005-08-02 23:11:28 and read 88949 times.

Nothing on French-Canadian channels, they are awaiting a news conference from the emergency team in YYZ around 17:15 EST... All my thoughts to the people onboard

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KYIPpilot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:11:54 and read 88828 times.

It seems that it may have been hydroplaning rather than windshear, as windshear would affect the approach and initial touchdown, but not causing it to skid off the end. Heavy rain has been occuring in YYZ this afternoon.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 23:11:59 and read 88801 times.

CNN LAtAm talking about poor weather seems to be probable cause, and still claiming no fatalities
by the waym they just showed a picture of the plane from a.net.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:12:06 and read 88768 times.

Eyewitness on CTV says that it landed safely and says that lightning struck it on the runway, losing all power. Says pilot managed to maintain some control but that braking system was not functioning. Eyewitness works in aviation. Now he says pilot could not have had control but it just rolled. Now he is saying that pilot kept it on the runway and was able to take it to end of runway. Kept it as straight as he could, so it went into ditch. Says fire did NOT begin immediately. Plane "picked up on fire" and got worse. Eyewitness says that it is possible that there were survivors, from time after leaving runway to fire beginning.

Now unconfirmed that there were 291 pax and crew, and 60 survived and escaped. Unconfirmed on CTV.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hmmmm...
Posted 2005-08-02 23:12:48 and read 88511 times.

Miles O'brian, what a dink. Just announced that there were no survivors of DL 191 in Dallas. Claimed that type of disaster is non-survivable. Many, many survivors. Where do they get these guys?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Alcregular
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:03 and read 88422 times.

Apparently 291 pax and crew on board and around 60 managed to escape. Obviously, just speculation at the moment.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:14 and read 88356 times.

Unconfirmed 291 on board
Unconfirmed 60 out fine.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tornado82
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:16 and read 88343 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 46):
they said there is a great possibility that its done by terrorists...

Unless terrorists can control convective atmospheric events nowadays... No.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Texan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:20 and read 88330 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 127):
How many pax does an A343 carry? How many crew? How valid is this number?

To repeat, Air France's website states the A340-300 carries a max of 252 passengers.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Redngold
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:22 and read 88320 times.

Let us all say a prayer for the people on board, the rescue crews, and the friends and families of those involved.

redngold

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YVR99
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:25 and read 88294 times.

CTV news now reporting that lightning strike occurred after plane had touched down, ie while it was on the runway and that the lightning strike caused loss of power such that there was no reverse thrust or braking available... could be rampant speculation! Pictures also show some small explosions still occurring
Reports on CTV of possibly 60 survivors... but we're clearly all hoping for more...

YVR99

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: NW727251ADV
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:41 and read 88194 times.

Date: 02 August 1985
Airline: Delta Air Lines
Flight No.: 191
Aircraft: L1011-385-1
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
Fatalities: 137:162+1

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PVD757
Posted 2005-08-02 23:13:44 and read 88178 times.

With the plane in a ravine, it makes it very difficult for the rescue crews to assist and suppress the fire due to the inability to get there. Does anybody have a satelite map of the airport online?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2005-08-02 23:14:04 and read 88065 times.

My prayers are with them.

Conflicting reports from 200 to 291 SOB.

Sounds like he got caught in a quartering tail wind, due to the t-storm, as reports are he "floated" more than half way down the runway.

Similar weather to DL-191 at DFW, 20 years ago today. But different type of crash.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2005-08-02 23:14:05 and read 88066 times.

291 seems a bit high, given that there are only 252 seats; a maximum load would be about 266 (assuming 14 crew); I guess the 200 reported earlier were a ballpark figure.

In fairness, some of the people brought in were quite intelligent; the BBC are talking to Flight International's David Learmount. Says A340 has a spotless record, which is true (although AF lost one in a ground accident not long after its introduction). CNN had an ex-US Airways A330 pilot, who had a few good things to say, particularly about speculation of causes and weather.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RedAirForce
Posted 2005-08-02 23:14:38 and read 87892 times.

Would the Ontario Highways Webcam have caught the actual crash on film?

Glad that it sounds like alot of people made it out.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:14:41 and read 87885 times.

Quoting YVR99 (Reply 149):
CTV news now reporting

You are watching same broadcast as me.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: IwantaBBJ
Posted 2005-08-02 23:15:32 and read 87582 times.

Sort of a planespotter now talking on CNN...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:15:56 and read 87428 times.

CTV says Peel Regional Police says pilot and some passengers taken to hospital. Passengers wandering around near 401. First official confirmation of survivors.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aviationwiz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:16:34 and read 87226 times.

Spotter saying that the plane cracked in half. Wow.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rev3oh2
Posted 2005-08-02 23:17:37 and read 86851 times.

Reports on CBS and Fox News now of everyone getting out safely, although with some injuries....

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pilot kaz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:17:40 and read 86832 times.

This is Terrible  Sad

I Pray for those on board.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 23:17:43 and read 86815 times.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 157):
First official confirmation of survivors.

Now that is good news  Smile

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 23:17:48 and read 86788 times.

My prayers go out to the passengers and crew of that plane, and their families.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flashmeister
Posted 2005-08-02 23:19:05 and read 86295 times.

There's a secondhand passenger account on the audio stream I'm listening to:

Reports that they were too high, then quickly lost altitude and hit the runway, then crashed into the ravine. Saw fire in cabin. She was seated in first class, fire was behind her. Reported passengers with moderate or worse injuries. Chutes deployed and evacuation was started

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-02 23:19:18 and read 86238 times.

The explosion that happened several minutes after the crash... It appeared to come from the front of the aircraft. Could that have been oxygen tanks?

Mark

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vsa340
Posted 2005-08-02 23:19:41 and read 86095 times.

The Pilot and Co Pilot are safe. There was 291 passengers on the aircraft.

Jamie

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:20:11 and read 85900 times.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/TorontoPearsonArptAerial.jpg

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cainanuk
Posted 2005-08-02 23:20:31 and read 85802 times.

About 15 minutes ago, the dingbat anchorwomanon Sky News speculated that because of this, all Airbus aircraft must be unsafe and that perhaps the CAA and FAA will now ground the Airbus fleet worldwide.....

Jeez!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:21:19 and read 85521 times.

Numerous reports now saying that survivors were picked up by motorists on the freeway. (CP24, CFRB)

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:21:57 and read 85296 times.

What site are you listening to streaming from.

Sean

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Venezuela747
Posted 2005-08-02 23:22:14 and read 85200 times.

Yeah a spotter on CNN called in he said he was on the highway parallel to the runway, apparently the aircraft overran the runway and there are no barriers after the runway it's like a valley, he said the aircraft fell into the valley and cracked in half........Hope eveyone is fine

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ppostro
Posted 2005-08-02 23:22:23 and read 85143 times.

My prayers are with everyone on board. CNN, my god, please get these guys educated on reporting these events, i love the sensationalism of their reporting, there are reports of survivors, not according to CNN though!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TFSPhoto
Posted 2005-08-02 23:23:20 and read 84773 times.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Philb
Posted 2005-08-02 23:23:59 and read 84535 times.

Given the frequency of summer storms does Pearson have active or passive windshear and microburst detection systems?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Schipholjfk
Posted 2005-08-02 23:24:14 and read 84445 times.

An Air France passenger jet overruns a runway at Toronto's International Airport and burst into flames, CNN confirms.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/02/toronto.crash/index.html

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pilot kaz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:24:38 and read 84288 times.

Live Stream:

http://www.pulse24.com/Plugins/CP24Live/popup_player.asp?speed=56

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hrhf1
Posted 2005-08-02 23:24:57 and read 84163 times.

We're now in the official 'nobody really knows anything' phase on CBC. They're interviewing a televsion host that works for them who flies a F*&king Cessna. Great, thanks for the insight.

CTV isn't much better, interviewing an 'eye witness' who seems to know nothing about much either.

Can't they just say they don't know instead of rediculous speculation?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PVD757
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:22 and read 84022 times.

Nice picture, any ideas which way is north on the map?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Henny
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:24 and read 84010 times.

Horrible for AF, ghastly for Toronto Aiport, and shear hell for those passengers.

God pray they get the hell off in time.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:31 and read 83955 times.

White smoke now, that is good, they are getting a hand on the fire and putting it out.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TedTAce
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:36 and read 83909 times.

Someone saying that the AC was struck by lightning on landing...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TFSPhoto
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:39 and read 83885 times.

http://www.tfsphoto.com/cyyz2.jpg

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jj
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:54 and read 83793 times.

Just one thought... CNN seams to be talking about windshear all the time... but had it been a windshear the plane would have crashed before the runway right? not skidded off? My thoughts are with the pax and crew!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Backfire
Posted 2005-08-02 23:25:57 and read 83780 times.

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 143):
Miles O'brian, what a dink. Just announced that there were no survivors of DL 191 in Dallas. Claimed that type of disaster is non-survivable. Many, many survivors. Where do they get these guys?

From A.net judging by some of the wild speculation here - and given that CNN is interviewing a spotter (gotta love the reliable news sources) then it's probably not far from the truth.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:26:29 and read 83585 times.

They are reporting on CNN that there are a few survivors. No word as to how many.


Sean

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vegasplanes
Posted 2005-08-02 23:27:21 and read 83245 times.

It just came up on yahoo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050802/ap_on_re_ca/canada_plane_crash

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:27:37 and read 83162 times.

CTV reports nine planes have diverted from Pearson.

Also showing interesting footage from crash in same place in 1978. AC DC-9. No fire, and many survivors for that one. The ravine is very deep.

Runway used is at bottom of airport photo above. You can see the ravine.

Another eyewitness, a famous Canadian figure skater, I guess. She was stuck in traffic on 401. Saw lightning hit something. Saw smoke after about 30 seconds or 1 minute. Then saw that it was a plane off runway. "Streaks of fire on runway and down to plane". Assumed fuel on fire. Did not see plane on fire at that time. Asked her to confirm fire on the runway. She says yes. Also fire in ravine. "Very very clear that something had been hit by lightning". People on 401 were very stunned. People pulled off to side of highway. Two or three cars had people running out of their cars, when pouring with hail, trying to get over fence to help. Traffic in slow lane pulled over to try to help. She was in fast lane (collectors vs. express). CTV guy saying survivors in dazed condition wandering around the 401.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vasi
Posted 2005-08-02 23:27:43 and read 83133 times.

Today we had thunderstorm after thunderstorm in YYZ, the first one coming over the city centre at around 11:30 am. Left our warehouse at around 30 min. before the crash and yes the thunderstorm was quite heavy which left damage to our Canadian office. Saw some planes going around (mostly DASH 8)

Hopefully everybody survived that nightmare!

VASI

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Andz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:28:10 and read 82920 times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/andzz/YYZ.jpg

guess you gotta be fast to post in this kind of thread!

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:29:45]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-08-02 23:28:47 and read 82729 times.

Wow... Not much of a safety area with the drop off. Not good.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Texan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:28:58 and read 82678 times.

how bout we hold off on the rest of the conjecture until the news conference unless some facts quickly become known.

Texan

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cbphoto
Posted 2005-08-02 23:28:58 and read 82674 times.

Quoting BSU747 (Reply 107):
If it is the regular AF flight into Toronto AF358, a friend of mine picked it up on ACARS this lunchtime over the UK as F-GLZQ.



Here she is


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kazim Alikhan - t.dot photography




Very Sad..I hope there are no fatalities, God be with them!!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EnviroTO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:29:19 and read 82557 times.

CNN has had the worst coverage of the news networks available in Canada but the best quality picture. CNN is focusing on microbursts even though the plane went off the end of a runway. Planes don't land on their wheels and run off the end of a runway due to wind shear. CTV seems to have the better commentary.

Plane landed, hit by lightning, loss of power and ability to stop, ran off runway into ditch, some passengers able to get out, reports of people actually walking onto 401 in a daze from Peel police, report of fuel on fire on the runway after the accident.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YYZUla
Posted 2005-08-02 23:29:32 and read 82476 times.

I am watching the local news right now. So far they are sayig that their are no reports of casualties, but many have been sent to local hospitals. Pilot and copilot have survived.

Out of curiousity, I am suppose to be flying out of YYZ on Saturday evening, what kind of effect do you guys think these events will have on my flight, if any.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AviationMaster
Posted 2005-08-02 23:30:46 and read 82060 times.

It's amazing how all the news channels are acting as if they invented aviation.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2005-08-02 23:32:38 and read 81401 times.

BBC News 24 quoting eyewitness who says plane made good landing, thrust reversers deployed (Heard them) but plane continued straight off the end of the runway and broke in two. Nothing about when fire started, but if plane broke up due to depth of the ditch, then fuel spillage more than likely.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pilot kaz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:32:39 and read 81396 times.

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 186):
They are reporting on CNN that there are a few survivors. No word as to how many.

Last I heard 60, Pilots in hospital apprently.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-08-02 23:32:43 and read 81382 times.

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 202):
It's amazing how all the news channels are acting as if they invented aviation.

No doubt... I love the qualifying statements... I visited Airbus in France and.... Etc...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EnviroTO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:32:56 and read 81309 times.

One quote from a stewardess is they think they got everyone out but wasn't 100% sure.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Phkrs
Posted 2005-08-02 23:32:56 and read 81310 times.

live stream at www.clickondetroit.com...
'Eyewitness: I saw that they had enough time to get EVREYONE off the plane'

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:33:36 and read 81078 times.

Why has thread been retitled that some are dead? We have no confirmation of deaths yet, as we have no confirmation of all survivors either.

Eyewitness talked to a flight attendant from the plane (this is on CTV) who says that she was confident that they got everyone out. Eyewitness saw lots of people running around down near river in live footage on TV. Says FA was in shock and "obviously went through tremendous ordeal". FA was "at 401 level"! Were coming up between bridges on 401, people on backboards coming up. I don't understand this, can someone more familiar with 401 explain?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pflueeb
Posted 2005-08-02 23:34:38 and read 80726 times.

You'd think they would invent a type of automatic fire hose sprayer situated on the ends of runways. They could be tall platforms which could be robot-controlled to shoot a huge stream of fire foam for situations like these where emergency vehicles can't get close?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jumbolino
Posted 2005-08-02 23:34:58 and read 80612 times.

German television (ARD) said that it was due to the heavy rain but they don't know more about aircraft/route than it was an Airbus from Air France (they mentioned that they have no clue about it was inbound or outbound).

Jumbolino.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hmmmm...
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:05 and read 80560 times.

Quoting Backfire (Reply 184):
From A.net judging by some of the wild speculation here - and given that CNN is interviewing a spotter (gotta love the reliable news sources) then it's probably not far from the truth.

Simply not true. He said there were no survivors. There were survivors. He said that accident is not survivable. That accident was and is survivable. So he was far from the truth.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aggieflyboi04
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:14 and read 80526 times.

CNN is reporting that there are surivors wondering around the secen and that one of the pilots was on his way to the hospitol. News confrence coming up shortly.

DJ

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:33 and read 80425 times.

FoxNews says the live pictures are because the A-340 crashed near a traffic camera on the 401.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: 1MillionFlyer
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:37 and read 80390 times.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 181):
Someone saying that the AC was struck by lightning on landing...

They probably said it came out of the clouds on fire too.

Witnesses are very bad about those types of details.


A microburst could have caused the accident if the wind shifted dramatically while they were rolling out.

I will wait for the report before I jump to an absolute cause however.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Gdabski
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:39 and read 80378 times.

CNN also mentioned this 1993 acident in WAW in reference to reports that the aircraft had problems with braking. Weather conditions are similar too.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19930914-2

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mariusz Siecinski



Judging by the TV coverage it would be good if it ended with a comparable number of casualties.

/Gdabski

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:38:04]

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:38:45]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jamman
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:38 and read 80361 times.

BBC News 24 are getting pilots to comment over the phone seem to be good non sensational reporting. Also receiving reports from CTV.

Main fire seemed to be at the rear of the aircraft.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-02 23:35:50 and read 80307 times.

CTV showing earlier pictures: Fire at back of A340, but not fully engulfed. DEFINITELY Air France, can see "CE" on the fuselage. Wow, you can see it burning through (on the old pictures).

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-02 23:36:04 and read 80233 times.

They are still saying on CNN form the gentleman from the Globe and Mail that there were about 290 pax onboard. Saying that the a/c carried anywhere from 252-303 pax.


Sean

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Backfire
Posted 2005-08-02 23:36:18 and read 80142 times.

Typical A.net. Slag off the news channels for trying to do a tough job with little information, but steal all their reports to cut and paste here.  Yeah sure

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2005-08-02 23:36:21 and read 80128 times.

F-GLZQ, LN 289, in service with AF since Sept 1999.

JP shows config as J36Y236, so add a significant number of crew (surely not 19?) and you come closer to 291; significantly above the 252 in AF's timetable.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 23:36:36 and read 80007 times.

The aircraft would have survived if the ditch wasnt there!

Drew

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-02 23:36:49 and read 79925 times.

GlobalTV is currently reporting zero fatalities. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2005-08-02 23:37:33 and read 79683 times.

BBC News 24 just had close-up pictures. Front two-thirds of aircraft and wings clearly visible and intact. Fire was coming from rear third of fuselage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/live/bb/wm/video/now2_bb.asx

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:39:13]


BBC News 24 added that BBC Weather (Through Met Office) report that weather in Toronto between 20:05 and 20:20 (UK Sumemr time) was 40 mph winds and heavy Thunderstorms.

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:44:15]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-02 23:38:33 and read 79310 times.

This is very bad, I wish all pax and crew the best.

Heard someone on CNN Int'l talk about the LH A320 that skidded off at WAW in 1993 (?) due to the brakes not working because of the water on the runway. Then he said he didn't know whether or not the computer issue that caused the accident had been rectified. Good thing he said that.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Slider
Posted 2005-08-02 23:38:33 and read 79310 times.

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 204):
BBC News 24 quoting eyewitness who says plane made good landing, thrust reversers deployed (Heard them) but plane continued straight off the end of the runway and broke in two. Nothing about when fire started, but if plane broke up due to depth of the ditch, then fuel spillage more than likely.

This is the most plausible recap I've heard yet.

Reasonable....

Can anyone refresh my memory as to how the 340's fuselage is mated? Two sections near mid-fuselage or 3 (nose/mid/tail)? That might give indication as to break pattern if the fuselage itself is broken and how badly.

I also wonder if they exhausted all the foam, because water sprayed on that would create MORE smoke, which would inhibit escape paths for potential survivors.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RJ111
Posted 2005-08-02 23:39:30 and read 78983 times.

Some unconfirmed reports are saying everyone survived. However i'd imagine there where a few fatalities, but talk of bus loads of people evacuating is promising news.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-02 23:39:42 and read 78912 times.

As would be expected, the Air France website appears to be down.

Reports saying Captain and Co Pilot alive, but i dont trust the news.

Just seen a replay from earlier, looks like the plane has opened up just after the wings. Can see flames pouring out from the replay

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:40:09 and read 78755 times.

GlobalTV say no fatalities. CP24 says airport is closed.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Halibut
Posted 2005-08-02 23:40:34 and read 78601 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 225):
GlobalTV is currently reporting zero fatalities. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Just heard that too from a different news outlet !

Hope for the best !

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:44:20]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SKYSERVICE_330
Posted 2005-08-02 23:40:36 and read 78589 times.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 224):
The aircraft would have survived if the ditch wasnt there!

And you know this how.....?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mikephotos
Posted 2005-08-02 23:40:51 and read 78488 times.

I'm not familiar with YYZ (or the exact details of this accident so far) but wondering if an arrestor bed would have helped?

Mike

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AC777233LR
Posted 2005-08-02 23:42:32 and read 77909 times.

PAX on the flight being interviewed on CBC NOW!

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:43:31]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-08-02 23:42:44 and read 77848 times.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 224):
The aircraft would have survived if the ditch wasnt there!

Not necessarily. However, US airports are feverishly working to improve airport safety areas for exactly this reason by either ensuring a 1,000' Safety Area or use EMAS to catch an aircraft. A combination of both is probably better.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Londoncenter
Posted 2005-08-02 23:42:54 and read 77790 times.

Quoting Jj (Reply 183):
Just one thought... CNN seams to be talking about windshear all the time... but had it been a windshear the plane would have crashed before the runway right? not skidded off? My thoughts are with the pax and crew!

Windshear is a sudden change in wind velocity which occurs faster than an aircraft can adjust its own speed to accomodate it. Therefore it could be a sudden increase in headwind, giving extra lift, making the aircraft touchdown further down the runway than desired. A tailwind windshear would result in loss of lift and touching down short.

Hoping the reports of everyone surviving are true!

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:47:27]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TacSupport1
Posted 2005-08-02 23:42:58 and read 77768 times.

I hate the geniuses who say to the likes of "I wouldn't hold out much hope for survival" etc etc. Totally inappropriate and disrespectful comments, especially at this point. Show some respect!! Who cares about your "knowledge" of commercial aviation, look at the human factor to this!

My thoughts and prayers are with all involved.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BoeingPride800
Posted 2005-08-02 23:44:22 and read 77318 times.

CNN is reporting there are no fatalities so far. It's an Air France Airbus A340. Pilot and co-pilot survived. Smoke and some fire visible on CNN live footage.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 23:44:40 and read 77228 times.

Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 235):
And you know this how.....?

im speculating. of course if there was a flat piece of land the aircraft stays horizontal. With a ditch the plane droped into the ditch and might have cause it to break.

Drew

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Brido
Posted 2005-08-02 23:45:06 and read 77086 times.

This is another testament to the power and importance of Flight Attendant emergency training. This is why the Flight Attendants sit near the doors, everyone.

Reports range from "many survivors" to "everyone survived". Either way it is wonderful news.

Anyone feel like calling FA crewmembers "glorified waiters/waitresses" or the like, right now? No vending machine or waiter could pull this off, for sure.

Amazing work by the Flight Attendant crew.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pflueeb
Posted 2005-08-02 23:45:21 and read 76993 times.

rub me Scarlet--the rules say "NO CRITICIZING of others"

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:46:00 and read 76797 times.

Estimated time to news conference 15 minutes. (6pm local). Although we all know that at times like this, we may be waiting longer than that until they can gather the initial facts.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-02 23:46:01 and read 76785 times.

Hey, stop bitching guys. This is a serious situation, u wanna bitch, open a thread in non av

Hopefully, from what is being said, there are alot of survivors

Just wish news reporters would report truthfully, heard one channel say first class at the rear of the plane?????

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 23:46:06 and read 76760 times.

Hey, a survivor is being interviewed on CNN now!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Philhyde
Posted 2005-08-02 23:47:32 and read 76354 times.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 142):
Eyewitness on CTV says that it landed safely and says that lightning struck it on the runway, losing all power.

How would an eyewitness know that?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-08-02 23:47:54 and read 76244 times.

Quoting Gdabski (Reply 217):
CNN also mentioned this 1993 acident in WAW in reference to reports that the aircraft had problems with braking. Weather conditions are similar too.

It was just a matter of time for the WAW accident to be thrown in...

Quoting Backfire (Reply 222):
Typical A.net. Slag off the news channels for trying to do a tough job with little information, but steal all their reports to cut and paste here.

So what? Many people do a tough job every day. The journalists should simply not tell any rubbish.
And why not get the useful info out of their reports?


Regards
Udo

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AC777233LR
Posted 2005-08-02 23:48:52 and read 75922 times.

According to the passenger being interviewed CBC:

Interior lights turned off directly after landing

He saw lightning

He escaped from the rear of the plane by escape chute

Captain at first said to stay in seats

Plane was totally full

He was second person off the plane

Plane appeared to have problems braking

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Efranrider
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:26 and read 75752 times.

Detroit News interviewed (live) a stewardess and a passenger, and they both say that there are no fatalities. Aircraft landed, overran runway, power shut down, boom. -E

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: VS747SPUR
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:31 and read 75727 times.

My prayers are with all those involved.

How comes this was the only plane that done this though and not others before it ?

Very sad indeed

VS747SPUR

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:36 and read 75701 times.

French pax being interviewed on Sky News, stating "power went out about 1 minute before touchdown"

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AlitaliaMD11
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:43 and read 75662 times.

Just heard someone trying to blame it on the fly-by wire system.

Apparently a lot of people got out of the plane.

Miracles do happen!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Efcar98
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:49 and read 75628 times.

they have survivors on CNN International

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-02 23:49:56 and read 75600 times.

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 253):
How would an eyewitness know that?

He said that one minute before they crashed, the lights in the cabin went out completely. Of course, one minute can be anything from a few seconds to half a minute to whatever in this case.

Edit: That came from a survivor by the name of Olivier interviewed on the BBC.

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:51:29]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:50:07 and read 75553 times.

Passenger Olivier DuBois? saying that aircraft lost power just before touchdown.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tom_EDDF
Posted 2005-08-02 23:50:12 and read 75523 times.

The warsaw comment made on CNN does not apply to this plane. The acutators on the airbus fbw aircraft have been changed.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Andz
Posted 2005-08-02 23:50:13 and read 75514 times.

Newsguy interviewing another passenger says "we're glad you're safe, and welcome to Canada!"

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Msl747
Posted 2005-08-02 23:50:40 and read 75369 times.

Holy crap, just turned on CNN! God, I hope there are no fatalities worried .... But I fear that isn't the case... Sad

-Msl747

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BlueSky1976
Posted 2005-08-02 23:51:08 and read 75246 times.

CNN now: "everyone got out alive, there are some injuries"

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 23:52:10 and read 74946 times.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 239):
Not necessarily. However, US airports are feverishly working to improve airport safety areas for exactly this reason by either ensuring a 1,000' Safety Area or use EMAS to catch an aircraft. A combination of both is probably better.

Thats exactly what I mean, if there was a 1000 feet safety area then maybe the aircraft would have still been intact.
The ravine COULD HAVE BEEN the cause of the aircraft to break in half.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 242):
Apparently an incident like this brings out the assholes and idiots, doesn't it?

Golly I think my comment wasnt as bad as the other ones...

Drew

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Blackhawk144
Posted 2005-08-02 23:52:39 and read 74783 times.

Quoting AC777233LR (Reply 255):
He saw lightning

Did he say where?

Anthony

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TWAMD-80
Posted 2005-08-02 23:52:40 and read 74783 times.

There is now a reporter from City TV that is reporting that all passengers have made it out of the airplane, although some have serious injuries. I hope this is indeed true.

TW

Edit: The source of information the reporter is quoting is from airport personnel.

[Edited 2005-08-02 23:55:38]

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-02 23:53:03 and read 74668 times.

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 263):
The acutators on the airbus fbw aircraft have been changed.

That would clear up the CNN guy's uncertainty.

Quoting Andz (Reply 264):
"we're glad you're safe, and welcome to Canada!"

I hope that it will turn out one of these is appropriate:  Silly

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: 3204ever
Posted 2005-08-02 23:53:39 and read 74483 times.

all pax made it out alive.......

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ZOTAN
Posted 2005-08-02 23:54:10 and read 74344 times.

Sounds like everyone got out ok. Thank god everyone is ok.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2005-08-02 23:54:13 and read 74331 times.

Global TV is interviewing a "professional pilot" he says he has had a private pilot license for almost 1 year now.

The news media is so stupid.

FoxNews now reporting NO fatatilities.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: STARalliance24
Posted 2005-08-02 23:54:40 and read 74196 times.

They say all passengers survived.LUCKLY!!! And they also say thunder could be the cause of the crash!!! Weird. No?

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2005-08-02 23:54:40 and read 74194 times.

I sincerely hope that everybody on board [passengers and crew] are alive.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RJ111
Posted 2005-08-02 23:54:59 and read 74099 times.

That's terrific news!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Blackbird1331
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:11 and read 74038 times.

Talk about miracles. Everyone survived. This pilot should quit while he is ahead.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHKRS
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:24 and read 73975 times.

live stream at BBC:
'Survivor: I believe the plane was full'
'Toronto City Television: ALL passengers are safe'

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:26 and read 73963 times.

Most sources are saying everyone survived!!
Yup, miracles do happen  Smile

CNN Intl is now questioning ATC's responsability as to why they allow planes to land in such bad weather

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: STARalliance24
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:30 and read 73939 times.

243 passengers aboard all survived. Thank God!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trintocan
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:40 and read 73892 times.

I am truly shocked by this crash. I just put on BBC News 24, as I usually do to get the latest news and I am presented with this horrible story. There are many reports of survivors and a survivor is actually talking to Canadian TV right now. BBC just showed an earlier shot of the ill-fated aircraft that confirms it as an AF A340-300.

It is a shocking accident and no doubt Transport Canada will do a great job in investigating the cause of this crash. In the meantime shed a thought on all who were aboard the plane, the survivors who will have physical and psychological injuries to deal with and the relatives who are awaiting confirmation of the well-being of their loved ones.

TrintoCan.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: B707Stu
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:57 and read 73809 times.

It's looking like most survived, if not all. Good news. That's what I'm hearing.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Longhaulheavy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:55:59 and read 73804 times.

CFRB: Everyone is off, no reported fatalities, 3 buses taken to medical services. 4 pax to regular hospital, 1 to pediatric hospital.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BCal10
Posted 2005-08-02 23:56:06 and read 73769 times.

Survivor speaking on BBC News 24 says plane lost power before it landed. Could this be the effects of a lightning strike and and could this effect the reverse thrust. Initial reports indicate most people managed to escape before fire took hold, some being picked up on nearby highway.
New report saying 291 on board and all escaped.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jetpixx
Posted 2005-08-02 23:56:07 and read 73760 times.

This is exactly 20 years to the day since a windshear incident downed a DL L1011 in DFW - Aug. 2, 1985. It sounds like this worked out a lot better...

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-02 23:56:27 and read 73662 times.

The Beeb is acknowledging cabin crew's efforts and their training... very well deserved, as it seems!

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: QuestAir
Posted 2005-08-02 23:56:36 and read 73622 times.

CNN says no fatalities.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KennyK
Posted 2005-08-02 23:56:58 and read 73509 times.

I see a 100+ Quincys are off like a shot, almost every major accident or incident comes down to not one cause but many. Jumping the gun does not help, wait until after the formal investigation then we will know what the cause or causes were, everything and I mean everything else is just gossip, conjecture or plain old guess work.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AC777233LR
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:08 and read 73455 times.

Eyewitness on cbc says plane deployed reversers then started swerving form side to side

also saying reports of no casualties

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aither
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:14 and read 73432 times.

This would be miraculous !

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:26 and read 73363 times.

Quoting 3204ever (Reply 271):
all pax made it out alive.......



Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 272):
Sounds like everyone got out ok. Thank god everyone is ok.



Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 274):
They say all passengers survived.LUCKLY!!

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great news!!!

Patrick

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PipoA380
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:32 and read 73330 times.

I'm hearing now that in Canada, the crew reminds people the safety rules just before the landing.. is that true?

I also just heard that all passengers have survived (possibly).

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: British767
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:33 and read 73324 times.

291 pax. All out alive.

Topic: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ATAIndy
Posted 2005-08-02 23:57:34 and read 73321 times.

CNN reports all aboard survived. Thank God.  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Cruiser
Posted 2005-08-02 23:58:03 and read 73199 times.

CP24 just confirmed that there was 243 people on this flight.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: LGA777
Posted 2005-08-02 23:58:31 and read 73096 times.

Very ironic that the 3 most recent photo's of this aircraft on this site where taken at YYZ !

Looks like all AC fliights between LGA-YYZ are cancelled for the rest of tonite.

LGA777

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-02 23:58:56 and read 72988 times.

The crew must have done an excellent job.

Thank goodness everybody survived.

Drew

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: LoveDFW
Posted 2005-08-02 23:59:22 and read 72874 times.

If this turns out to be weather related ( Big ' if ' at this point ) -- how ironic that it is exactly 20 years to the day as DL 191.....

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-03 00:00:15 and read 72664 times.

Certain Canadian outlets are saying there are no known casualties at this time. Fire crews were at the scene in about 45 seconds. Pilot and FO were amongst first out.

(Whatever you do don't watch Fox News, those idiots have already managed to mangle this story as only they know how.)

Hope it all turns out OK.

YOWza

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: STARalliance24
Posted 2005-08-03 00:00:37 and read 72584 times.

Where will the rest of the flights coming to toronto be diverted!?!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:00:44 and read 72556 times.

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 293):
I'm hearing now that in Canada, the crew reminds people the safety rules just before the landing.. is that true?

Yes. Had this happen on SEA-YYZ.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Blackhawk144
Posted 2005-08-03 00:00:44 and read 72546 times.

Considering the plane broke in two...there were 2 good-sized explosions...there was fire nearly everywhere as it looked, it is nothing short of amazing that no one died. I'm VERY(!!!!) happy to hear this!

Anthony

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-03 00:00:46 and read 72531 times.

A French pax being interviewed says there were flames as they left the aircraft. He says they were delayed in landing, then as they came in seemed to be going fast (his impression) and then after landing they exited thru the emerg. exits fairly smoothly.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: N270ft
Posted 2005-08-03 00:01:28 and read 72343 times.

FoxNews just said that it was lightning. I thought that planes didn't come down due to lightning.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Climb1
Posted 2005-08-03 00:01:32 and read 72330 times.

291 Pax and Crew on board. Latest update from BBC. At the moment it "appears" no one lost their life.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS-A321
Posted 2005-08-03 00:01:39 and read 72306 times.

CNN is showing earlier pictures from the crash and it seems as if the spoilers are not up! But as the guy talking said, it is difficult to see!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHKRS
Posted 2005-08-03 00:01:55 and read 72237 times.

BBC:
'291 pax aboard...ALL SAFE'

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: S.P.A.S.
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:04 and read 72198 times.

VirginA346,

Almost sure it was F-GLZQ according reply #107

Luck, a good crew and some divine help indeed helped to save all on board.

Cheers,

Salz

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: YULQC
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:17 and read 72143 times.

No fatalities apparently confirmed by Air France also

Thank God!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: AAFLT1871
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:19 and read 72138 times.

Question,

Is that a stationary traffic camera providing the live video? If so, they would have the crash captured on it.

Just wondering,

I will to continue to hope that the news that no one has died stays that way

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:34 and read 72086 times.

I have not yet heard confirmation of all passengers surviving on CTV. Should be a news conference any time now.

CTV reports all passengers surviving as "unconfirmed rumour".

News conference on now.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:37 and read 72080 times.

City news "A340-300 the biggest airbus"
A380?

Good everyone seem to have lived. My thought with the injured.


Pulse 24 reports that the Airbus 340 is a FBW and that it is very rare to fly on FBW planes!
WOW.

F-GLZQ.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: TWAMD-80
Posted 2005-08-03 00:02:52 and read 72032 times.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 279):
CNN Intl is now questioning ATC's responsability as to why they allow planes to land in such bad weather

Yeah CNN is saying a lot of things. Miles O'brien has at least 10 different scenarios as to what happened. Maybe he should try to get a job with the NTSB  Wink.

TW

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-03 00:03:37 and read 71869 times.

Air France website saying No problems reported, but i do belive they have better things to do at the moment

Just listening to Eric moody talking again

LIVE NEWS CONFRENCE

Injuries only so far, 14 people minor injuries being reported by news confrence

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:03:57 and read 71800 times.

CBC.ca confirming NO FATALITIES!!!!! YES!!!!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Phxplanes
Posted 2005-08-03 00:04:49 and read 71587 times.

Here is the news from phoenix Air France 340

http://phoenix.cox.net/cci/newsnatio...aximized&view=article&id=D8BNUK5O0

Got a pick to

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rtfm
Posted 2005-08-03 00:05:22 and read 71460 times.

Press confernece live on BBC streaming reporting that all survived with 14 minor injuries.

Great result considering the initial pictures!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HBIHLtoEZE
Posted 2005-08-03 00:05:59 and read 71323 times.

Oh yes!

This is indeed wonderful, worst's best.

if only all plane crashes ended like this fairy tale.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-03 00:06:36 and read 71166 times.

What is the accent of the spokeman on TV now? His name is Steve Shaw.

Mark

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:10:21]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Msl747
Posted 2005-08-03 00:06:57 and read 71083 times.

Quoting PHKRS (Reply 312):
'291 pax aboard...ALL SAFE'

Thank god everyone is ok! relieved 

-Msl747 airplane 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Dc10guy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:06:58 and read 71085 times.

Just heard CNN report 14 injured. If only 14 people where injured and everyone else got out .... Great job Air France Crew !!!! Probably was a bad decision to land though ...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: AC777233LR
Posted 2005-08-03 00:07:19 and read 71012 times.

Airport Manager saying all survived

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHKRS
Posted 2005-08-03 00:07:32 and read 70960 times.

BBC covering live News Conference:
'Plane skid 200 metres off runway'
'Fire broke out AFTER evacuation'

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: A388
Posted 2005-08-03 00:07:41 and read 70936 times.

Yep, CNN had Mr. Gord Martineau from Anchor City tv (don't know who he is) who says all passengers were evacuated safely before the aircraft caught fire. The cabin crew only used the front escape slides because of the fuselage having been broken in the tail section. His sources were the airport authorities and hospital reports. Hope all will be well for everybody.

Regards,

A388

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:08:14 and read 70792 times.

Wow, a reporter has asked the GTAA guy, Steve Shaw, how everybody surviving makes him feel. I think he almost cried. He went silent and looked down for a minute before he could talk.

He's doing much better with technical questions.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Venezuela747
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:01 and read 70650 times.

The guy in the news conference said 297 passengers and 14 crew members...thank god no death, just 14 minor injuries

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:18 and read 70601 times.

The guys is an

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 324):



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 324):
What is the accent of the spokeman on TV now?

He's Australian by the sound of things.

YOWza

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hrhf1
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:30 and read 70558 times.

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 315):
Is that a stationary traffic camera providing the live video? If so, they would have the crash captured on it.

The cameras are movable and was probably just set to monitor traffic at the time of the crash. Perhaps there was a lucky shot of it, but it would be just that...from time to time during the coverage you saw it move to show the backed up traffic, which is where it's normally looking.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Venezuela747
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:36 and read 70533 times.

The guy in the news conference said 297 passengers and 14 crew members...thank god no death, just 14 minor injuries

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Dash8Pilot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:41 and read 70511 times.

Eyewitness are saying that the first Officer got out of the plane safely and walked to 401, flagged a motorist down and went to the hospital. Apparently 3 bus loads of pax were taken to nearby hospitals.

They are also saying there was a 35 knott crosswind and no reported windshear. That must of been one tough landing, considering most aircrafts are limited to 36 knotts on landing.

Prayers out to all the pax and their families.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tommy777
Posted 2005-08-03 00:09:58 and read 70442 times.

You guys are worse than a sewing circle!

Some of you should stop opening your pieholes before you know for sure what’s going on when there are lives at stake!

Thank god everyone are ok!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Pilot kaz
Posted 2005-08-03 00:10:21 and read 70348 times.

Great news that everyone got out safe, lets hope all the injured make a full recovery,

Well done AF Crew!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: David L
Posted 2005-08-03 00:10:25 and read 70330 times.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 267):
The ravine COULD HAVE BEEN the cause of the aircraft to break in half

But, as one of those interviewed said, it may well have stopped the aircraft ploughing across the highway.

It's all looking so much better now.

Anyone noticed the rate at which these posts are being read? Usually a post gets read about 10 to 20 times in the first ten minutes. I noticed one of mine had been read over 3700 times within 6 minutes. I'm getting stage fright now.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyTweed
Posted 2005-08-03 00:10:50 and read 70260 times.

I could be wrong, but if they were under a red alert and not allowing any activity to depart from the airport, why was the acft allowed to land? I would think the considerable lightning and hail would have been enough to keep the acft in the air for a bit.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-08-03 00:10:54 and read 70248 times.

Quoting Jetpixx (Reply 285):
This is exactly 20 years to the day since a windshear incident downed a DL L1011 in DFW - Aug. 2, 1985. It sounds like this worked out a lot better...

Creepie.... Considering wind sheer/microburst is a potential contributing factor.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Palladium
Posted 2005-08-03 00:11:00 and read 70213 times.

The pilot now are being treated in local hospital, 14 passengers suffuered minor injuries and it appears they manage to evacuate all the passengers safely before the plane explode and burt into flames.

Some passangers were manage to get off from the plane and some people from the highway were trying to help the passangers.

As for now, there is no report about how many people are dead. But, I can assure that all passangers are safely evacuated.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: AIHTOURS
Posted 2005-08-03 00:11:02 and read 70204 times.

My thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected by this terrible Crash.

The BBC are reporting that all passengers have survived.

That is excellent news!

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:12:27]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Venezuela747
Posted 2005-08-03 00:11:28 and read 70096 times.

Does anyone know the diversions from YYZ?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 00:11:48 and read 70025 times.

now when we have reports of only injuries... we have a massive death in CLOTHES and Carry on items. hope the computers did not suffer.

poor PAX loosing their luggage and personal beloingings.

thanks all we keep high and mighty that evryone is "ok."

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Tsnamm
Posted 2005-08-03 00:11:52 and read 70010 times.

a local Toronto weather woman said at the time of the crash wind gusts exceeded 100KMH...strangely enough an eyewitness who sounded like he understood aviation said that it looked like the landing went well but the plane was going too fast and went off the end of the runway breaking in half...Thank the lord everyone got off alive...a true miracle considering all the fire...I'm surprised that there would be so much fuel still on board to fuel the fire...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Climb1
Posted 2005-08-03 00:12:04 and read 69974 times.

297pax and 12 crew. Reuters (or however u spell it!)

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHKRS
Posted 2005-08-03 00:12:10 and read 69947 times.

Reuters:
279 Pax and 12 crew aboard.
No fatalities.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TWPHIL
Posted 2005-08-03 00:12:28 and read 69875 times.

Confirmed by Air France all 297 pax and 12 crew members ALL ALIVE.14 pax injured seriously..Thats great news at this stage.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ari
Posted 2005-08-03 00:12:35 and read 69862 times.

It's great that everyone is ok......what effect will this have on the aviation industry for the next couple of days...months?????

ari

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AeroPeru
Posted 2005-08-03 00:12:51 and read 69810 times.

According to MSNBC right now, 297 on board with 14 minor injuries. Hopefully, that's an accurate number.
Our prayers are with all involved.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Socal
Posted 2005-08-03 00:13:11 and read 69738 times.

I just listen to Fox News and they said the A340 over shot the runway...this is terrible.....I hope everyone is safe

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: BCal10
Posted 2005-08-03 00:13:17 and read 69708 times.

Latest report 297+12 on board. No known fatalaties. 14 taken to hospital.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHLapproach
Posted 2005-08-03 00:13:32 and read 69660 times.

Alright, I have been listening to the 15:30 and 16:00 archives on liveatc.net

15:30 Archive

23:49 AFR358 down to 5000

25:19 AFR358 down to 4000

26:05 AFR358 cleared ILS 24L

26:45 AFR358 reduce to 160 knts

27:18 AFR358 Minimum Speed

28:01 AFR358 Over to the Tower

29:08 Controller gives report of lighting to KLM691's 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock and 5-6 miles. That would be in the vicinity of AFR358 on final for 24L. As someone mentioned a passenger said they lost power before touchdown. I would say the lighting definately had to do with that and possibly the fire.

16:00 Archive

3:00 Announces that an aircraft off the end of 24L, cancels ACA1105's Approach clearance, climbs ACA1105 to 6000. ACA1156 has approach clearance cancelled and decides to divert to the alternative (London, Ontario)

4:10 KLM691 goes around, climbs to 4000 and starts diversion to SYR. KLM691 wants comfirmation that airport is closed, gets the confirmation.

5:00 KLM691 declares low fuel emergency to SYR, considers Hamilton. Has just enough fuel to SYR, 30 mins worth of fuel. Cleared direct Syracuse.

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:15:51]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BoogyJay
Posted 2005-08-03 00:13:57 and read 69570 times.

Thanks GOD, everyone seems to be OK! I hope that will remain true.

My mum is on duty right now at the French Foreign Ministry. She gets all calls, reports, etc... arriving there.

God gives her the right words to reassure family members and relatives.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Noelg
Posted 2005-08-03 00:14:19 and read 69492 times.

FBOWeb is showing 5 flights within a radius of 50 miles of YYZ right now...there's normally dozens showing up around YYZ so I imagine it must be causing major disruption... The huge storm cell is just to the west of YYZ now according to the radar image.

Thank goodness there appears to be no fatalities.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hrhf1
Posted 2005-08-03 00:14:40 and read 69437 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 338):
But, as one of those interviewed said, it may well have stopped the aircraft ploughing across the highway.

Wouldn't have happened. If you know the area, or have seen the ariel photos the runway parallels the highway, but supposing it was clear field the aircraft would still have to pull a hard left to be on the 401.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyGuyClt
Posted 2005-08-03 00:15:08 and read 69323 times.

Kudos to a fast acting crew and passengers that there were no fatalities !

Safe Flying  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:15:27 and read 69262 times.

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 343):
Does anyone know the diversions from YYZ?

CBC.ca reports landings are diverting to Ottawa.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LorM
Posted 2005-08-03 00:15:34 and read 69242 times.

20 years ago today, on August 2, 1985, a Delta Air Lines Lockheed L1011-385-1 crashed while attempting to land at Dallas/Ft. Worth Airport, Texas in a thunderstorm. 134 of the 163 passengers and crew aboard were killed.

Yikes, what a day in aviation. Similar conditions, hopefully it looks like this accident has a better outcome.


Link to last LiveATC.net archives featuring the last transmissions of AF 358. Listen to the last few minutes of the 1530.mp3 to hear the calls from AF 358.

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/cyyz/CYYZ-Toronto-Aug-02-05-1530.mp3
http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/cyyz/CYYZ-Toronto-Aug-02-05-1600.mp3

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-08-03 00:16:06 and read 69128 times.

Media in T.O. keeps reporting that no fatalities ... great news for that!!!
30 people taken to hospital
/Milan320

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PHKRS
Posted 2005-08-03 00:16:07 and read 69128 times.

New video now showing at least front half of the plane not affected by fire. Fire was in the back part which broke apart.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mtnmanmakalu
Posted 2005-08-03 00:17:18 and read 68883 times.

Kudos to my fellow F/A's for getting everybody off the airplane safely!! CNN is reporting no deaths and 14 minor injuries- pretty good considering!!

So, next time you are bitching that you have to pay for a snack and they are out of Mountain Dew, remember what their real job onboard is!!!

mtnman  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: RTFM
Posted 2005-08-03 00:18:24 and read 68699 times.

Great video on BBC streaming at the moment - closer shots of fire-fighting vehicles in action...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2005-08-03 00:19:30 and read 68513 times.

Thanks God everybody is alive!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: B744F
Posted 2005-08-03 00:19:32 and read 68502 times.

Quoting Dash8Pilot (Reply 335):
Eyewitness are saying that the first Officer got out of the plane safely and walked to 401, flagged a motorist down and went to the hospital. Apparently 3 bus loads of pax were taken to nearby hospitals.

Why were the pilots the first to leave the airplane... and why did the FO flag a motorist down and take himself/herself to a hospital without seeing if someone else needed to go? Confusing. Glad everyone is OK though

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: David L
Posted 2005-08-03 00:19:49 and read 68456 times.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 330):
a reporter has asked the GTAA guy, Steve Shaw, how everybody surviving makes him feel

That type of question really gets my goat. Take a frickin' guess!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trekster
Posted 2005-08-03 00:20:28 and read 68343 times.

BBC NEWS REPORTING NO DEATH

All 297 got of the plane

KUDOS TO CREW
KUDOS TO AIR FRANCE

Topic: RE: Aircraft Off Runway In YYZ?
Username: Qantas744ER
Posted 2005-08-03 00:20:59 and read 68257 times.

Hey i watched on CNN the past 2hours Toronto airport authority Just had a press conference 297 passenger onboard no fatalities. plane is A airbus A340-300 Flight number AF 348.

Hope for the best


Cherrs Leo

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vulindlela744
Posted 2005-08-03 00:21:25 and read 68182 times.

Well, this situation seems to have the best possible outcome. CNN is reporting no lives lost. GREAT!!!!! I work as a f/a for a major US airline so I am very happy to hear of the outcome. Let's just hope and pray that it will remain this way. I think about this every day when I board an aircraft.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Muchswatch
Posted 2005-08-03 00:21:34 and read 68151 times.

everyone's alive? Great!!! now I can have my dinner.  relieved 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-03 00:22:11 and read 68039 times.

Quoting B744F (Reply 371):
Why were the pilots the first to leave the airplane...

Probably because they have their own escapes and are better trained than the passengers.  Wink

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Grimey
Posted 2005-08-03 00:22:52 and read 67925 times.

I did a search of F-GLZQ on A.netters and if you check out Photo ID: 766121, someone has edited the text already. Spooky?

Grimey

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BCal10
Posted 2005-08-03 00:24:12 and read 67719 times.

Anybody got a reg from Acars?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ: Some Pax Dead
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-03 00:24:40 and read 67640 times.

it is completely burning down

i just saw the tail falling down..

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hjulicher
Posted 2005-08-03 00:24:42 and read 67645 times.

It's surprising that the crew did decide to land. When I have flown on AF, it seems to me that they are overly cautious, and I remember everytime we went through any type of turbulence, they turn on the seatbelt sign. I'm glad that reports are saying everyone got off. I think if AF was going to divert, and everything was still okay, I would assume DTW would be first choice since they have AF services there, otherwise, if landing was imminent before DTW, I would assume London, Ontario; or Buffalo, NY, or even CLE.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PADSpot
Posted 2005-08-03 00:25:13 and read 67546 times.

All people survived, although some got some scratches ... on the other hand the airplane is surely a write-off. But insurances will certainly pay for it, so we'll see a wonderful new airplane to come off the (whosesoever) line ... so there's at least a bit of a happy end in it ...

Jan

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Venezuela747
Posted 2005-08-03 00:25:43 and read 67469 times.

CNN interviewed this guy who was on board the plane at the very back..Major kudos and congrats on the F/A for doing their job and helping everyone who got out....if it wasn;t for them we could probably be counting dead bodies....and thos who sat on the exit row prolly wanting that little leg room for acting as they should have.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-03 00:26:39 and read 67334 times.

Quoting TWPHIL (Reply 350):
It's great that everyone is ok......what effect will this have on the aviation industry for the next couple of days...months?????

If it is confirmed that there are no fatalities and only minor injuries (  Smile ), then I see no major negative effect on the aviation industry. No deaths mean no news, so reports from this accident will not be on the air for too long and therefore the average flyer will soon enough forget this ever happened. Also, since everyone survived, the average flyier will gain confidence in crews and emergency procedures on aircrafts and airports.

I'm still amazed there are no fatalities. I so expected the worse ... I have never been so happy to be wrong!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Glideslope
Posted 2005-08-03 00:27:43 and read 67158 times.

CNN has an interview on with a passenger from 48A. He states that 30-45 sec prior to touchdown all the cabin lights went out. He states the cabin was completely dark at touchdown.

Lightning strike?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ETStar
Posted 2005-08-03 00:29:05 and read 66938 times.

Looks like KLM is flying out of SYR (point of diversion) to Montreal, as opposed to back to YYZ.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Rotate
Posted 2005-08-03 00:29:16 and read 66908 times.

this really looked bad-thankful everybody okay ...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-08-03 00:29:44 and read 66831 times.

Quoting FlyTweed (Reply 339):
I could be wrong, but if they were under a red alert and not allowing any activity to depart from the airport, why was the acft allowed to land?

In the press conf. Steve Shaw said that the red-alert system just stops all ground work. It doesn't stop planes landing or taking off. If a plane lands, it will not be fuelled or unloaded while the red-alert is in progress. This is to protect ramp workers from potential lightning strikes.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MUCflieger
Posted 2005-08-03 00:31:59 and read 66501 times.

slightly off topic, but I�m too curios:
is Corey Marx speaking with a typical Canadian accent?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Scotland1979
Posted 2005-08-03 00:32:00 and read 66502 times.

Shocking after learning this news... what registrataion # anybody?

My heart goes to all passengers/crews

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aloges
Posted 2005-08-03 00:32:43 and read 66403 times.

Hey, could you guys please just ignore them and suggest deletion? After all, pissing you off is just what they want to do.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HBIHLtoEZE
Posted 2005-08-03 00:32:43 and read 66408 times.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 344):
This is actually pretty cool:
one A340 dead, and everyone else in good condition. Good stuff


Come on, this is way too distasteful.

People surviving a crash are surely not in good condition. They are glad, as we all are that they are, to be alive. It is possible, though, that they are heavily traumatised ...shame on you!

Completely wrong now to bring up personal preferences and sarcasm in any way.

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:36:27]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MEL
Posted 2005-08-03 00:33:30 and read 66288 times.

Winnipeg is receiving several diversions:

ACA180 Vancouver-Toronto B763 - divert to Winnipeg
ACA1152 Vancouver-Toronto B762 - divert to Winnipeg
ACA2 Tokyo-Toronto A343 - divert to Winnipeg
ACA16 Hong Kong -Toronto A345 - divert to Winnipeg

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: GLAGAZ
Posted 2005-08-03 00:33:42 and read 66253 times.

Thankfully everyone is safe !! Lets give it a few hours to see what really happened. A survivor said that all power went out just before touchdown. The lights may have gone out, but unless there was a lightening strike I can't imagine all power going. Sounds like conditions were horrible, I will congratulate all on board especially the FA's on a safe exit.

Gaz

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Speedbrds
Posted 2005-08-03 00:34:19 and read 66167 times.

Latest video on MSNBC shows the entire tail section practically melts of from the intense fire.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 00:34:26 and read 66150 times.

I was thinking as they are saying that the wheels where blown on landing and that the fire was in the back. Could the fire has been started by brakes being applied and over heated?

Any thouhts ?
sas330got

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA777222
Posted 2005-08-03 00:36:25 and read 65845 times.

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 403):
Thankfully everyone is safe !! Lets give it a few hours to see what really happened. A survivor said that all power went out just before touchdown. The lights may have gone out, but unless there was a lightening strike I can't imagine all power going. Sounds like conditions were horrible, I will congratulate all on board especially the FA's on a safe exit.

Gaz

It is procedure to turn the lights out during arrival/depature as it causes your eyes to dilate and could hamper your evacuation speed in the case of an emergency. I would guess that that is the reason in which the lights were out.

Thanks,

Matt

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-03 00:36:27 and read 65840 times.

How far away from the crash site are the emergency services based ? Witnesses said they were on the scene in as little as 30 seconds, so the reaction must have been extraordinarily quick.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:38:06 and read 65592 times.

Thankfully everyone appears to have made it alive. Traffic is at a stand-still all over the city and I can smell the burning aircraft from house 21 kms away.

As for Concordeboy's comments -- Yeah, they're inappropriate, particularly since the fatality count has not yet been confirmed -- but look at who they're coming from.

G

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:42:41]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AlitaliaMD11
Posted 2005-08-03 00:38:46 and read 65485 times.

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 303):
Where will the rest of the flights coming to toronto be diverted!?!

Apparently Ottawa was sopposed to be the diversion destination but weather conditions are not good there so planes have diverted to BUF and SYR. That was the last I hear.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyGuyClt
Posted 2005-08-03 00:39:07 and read 65439 times.

Even though people can hide behind a keyboard and be anonymous on here. You still have an online reputation. So let the ones who type evil things stand out and be highlighted. Bottom line. ALL are safe and people can go home to their families tonight. Period. No matter what should or should not have happened today!

Safe Flying with Some Intelligence.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:39:34 and read 65375 times.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 406):
How far away from the crash site are the emergency services based ? Witnesses said they were on the scene in as little as 30 seconds, so the reaction must have been extraordinarily quick.

The GTAA has its own emergency services on the ground. There are several hospitals nearby also.

G

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: PVD757
Posted 2005-08-03 00:41:13 and read 65151 times.

Could YYZ have a proceedure in place for crews to be on standby to assist during bad weather? 30 seconds is extremely quick for a response time.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Skyguy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:42:14 and read 64991 times.

Fantastic news that there was no loss of life, I hope the injuries to any of the passengers are not too serious.
Aircraft probably aquaplaned just at the very wrong time on touch down which led to this catastrophy, am sure the pilots must've done what they could to save the situation the best they could.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AlitaliaMD11
Posted 2005-08-03 00:42:33 and read 64950 times.

The ill-faited plane that will probably never grace our skies again Sad


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Anthony Jackson



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Photo © Sam Chui



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Photo © Philippe Bleus



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Photo © John Kelley




Looks like F-GLZQ mainly flew to Toronto and St.Maarten.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DL021
Posted 2005-08-03 00:42:51 and read 64899 times.

Just saw a closeup of the vert stab and a winglet. It appears that the fire is reduced to smoldering now.

A 'well done' to Air France, YYZ EMS and Fire teams for their response and execution of what appears to be excellent training and preparedness...and to Airbus for making this airplane well enough to allow everyone to exit under these circumstances.

Hopefully this will turn out to be some freak accident and not a systemic problem.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Boeing7E7
Posted 2005-08-03 00:43:32 and read 64805 times.

What's really sad is that in terms of the over-run, thus the impending injuries and hull loss this may have been avoidable. The aircraft came to rest only 655' off the end of the runway. A 600' EMAS would have stopped the aircraft and/or a Safety area of 1,000' may have been enough to provide the additional stop distance needed. Truly sad.

Here's the FAA Order issued just last year:

http://www.faa.gov/arp/publications/orders/engineering/5200_9.pdf

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 382):
For sliding off the runway when they probably shouldn't have landed in the first place?

It was a low speed over-run clown.

[Edited 2005-08-03 00:47:13]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jyatlantic
Posted 2005-08-03 00:44:44 and read 64643 times.

Article on Yahoo just came out:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050802/ap_on_re_ca/canada_plane_crash

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:44:48 and read 64636 times.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 408):
Could YYZ have a proceedure in place for crews to be on standby to assist during bad weather? 30 seconds is extremely quick for a response time.

Emergency services at GTAA were on standby as YYZ was on red-alert due to heavy lightning activity.

G

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mtnmanmakalu
Posted 2005-08-03 00:45:09 and read 64599 times.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 410):
The ill-faited plane that will probably never grace our skies again

Probably?? I think that is quite an understatement!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YOWguy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:45:19 and read 64575 times.

YOW has it regular flights arriving and departing except those to YYZ ...no flights out of the ordinary.

They are expecting the same weather cell here later in the evening, so it would not make any sense to divert flights here.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: N751PR
Posted 2005-08-03 00:45:25 and read 64561 times.

Here's a few shots of F-GLZQ:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Sam Chui




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Grant Feggi - t.dot photography
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Bernardo Andrade



Thank heavens there were no fatalities....

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Refueler1974
Posted 2005-08-03 00:45:45 and read 64508 times.

Thank God that everyone survived! My hat's off to the pilots and the cabin crew who, in the worst of times, performed their emergency evac duties as trained and lost nobody in the process!

I am currently watching this on CNN, and the passenger that they are interviewing is driving me nuts!! He is constantly referring to the runway as a "driveway"! You'd think that during one of the breaks somebody would correct him on that.

I know....I'm being too critical......sorry.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Floorrunner
Posted 2005-08-03 00:46:25 and read 64427 times.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 72):
Have they closed the airport? Where will they divert aircraft if so?

Last I heard, Toronto is Closed and they were diverting to Ottawa.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA777222
Posted 2005-08-03 00:46:25 and read 64416 times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v626/ua777222/what.jpg

So much for the media...

Matt

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-03 00:47:09 and read 64321 times.

Quoting Canuckpaxguy (Reply 409):

The GTAA has its own emergency services on the ground. There are several hospitals nearby also.

Sure, I was aware of that. I was wondering if the location where these emergency services are based is somewhere nearby the crash site. While they are usually based somewhere in the center of the airport, some of the larger airports have several bases as just one location would not guarantee that emergency services can reach any place within the airport perimeter in a defined period of time. Even if this is this case at YYZ, 30-45 seconds seems to be very quick given that it also takes a couple of secinds before the alarm is raised and the serrvices respond.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Trintocan
Posted 2005-08-03 00:47:48 and read 64233 times.

Well, the news that everybody onboard was safely evacuated is reassuring - it reflects the professionalism of the crew onboard the stricken plane and the build quality of the A340, which like all modern planes is designed to withstand impact and to offer safety to the occupants in the event of a crash. It all goes to show how safe modern aviation is.

Still, share thoughts and prayers for all who were on board - they would all have seen their lives flash in front of their eyes at the time of the accident. Let us hope they all recover completely and the cause of the crash is fully and conclusively investigated. Kudos to the media - I think that they have done a great job in the coverage of this accident.

Let us not forget AF, who collectively have a suffered a major blow. While, thankfully, all of the people aboard have survived, remember that this crash could still prove injurious to its image in the eyes of the lay public who may not understand all the intricacies of a plane crash and who would just be aware that one of their planes has crashed.

TrintoCan.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flynavy
Posted 2005-08-03 00:48:41 and read 64119 times.

I'm glad everyone escaped safely. What angered me was an MSNBC anchor implying that the "tank traps" were dangerous and potentially hazardous. I'll give her credit, though. She was stupid enough not to realize that those "dangerous" traps saved a LOT more, if not hundreds, of lives today. I can only imagine the carnage that would have resulted if F-GLZQ had ended up on the other side of the 401.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Goose
Posted 2005-08-03 00:51:13 and read 63787 times.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 361):
CBC.ca reports landings are diverting to Ottawa.

Hamilton, London (YXU) and Montreal are getting diversions as well.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlyMIA
Posted 2005-08-03 00:51:52 and read 63696 times.

Could lighting really cause this? I really dont think so. Lighting has never been known to crash an airliner. Or really make any serious problems.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Usnseallt82
Posted 2005-08-03 00:52:56 and read 63541 times.

Wow, I just now caught wind of this. I'm glad everyone's relatively okay. Wild that everyone got out of that without any problems but good!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-08-03 00:53:57 and read 63421 times.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 344):
This is actually pretty cool:
one A340 dead, and everyone else in good condition. Good stuff

What's his respect rating??? I always knew that the RR thing must be a joke ... this just proves it!
/Milan320

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Birdbrainz
Posted 2005-08-03 00:55:28 and read 63246 times.

It's way to early for speculation but I'm just curious...

There was a report that it was zapped by lightning after it landed.

It it possible that a severe enough lightning strike could knock out the fly-by-wire and hinder its stopping performance? The runway that it landed on appears to be a very long one. Any comment from 330/340 pilots on here who know the systems?

Oh well, this one ought to be easy to solve given that the crew survived.

Btw, I thought that the "A vs B war starting again" comment was meant to be a joke, and don't think it was meant to be taken seriously. Ditto for the A340 being loss as a good thing. Let's not be TOO sensitive here.  Smile The 330/340 are fine aircraft.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mir
Posted 2005-08-03 00:56:40 and read 63114 times.

First off all, fantastic news to hear that nobody was hurt. From the images on TV, that's truly impressive.

Two witnesses (passengers on the plane) are reporting that the plane was flying a higher approach speed than normal (to guard against windshear, perhaps?), and that the touchdown was perfectly normal. Then things went to hell.

A well-deserved pat on the back to the FAs for doing what they hoped they would never have to do with efficiency and professionalism, and the GTAA fire and EMS crews for getting on the scene fast.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 411):
Just saw a closeup of the vert stab and a winglet. It appears that the fire is reduced to smoldering now.

I've been seeing that as well. The winglet must have broken off or something, I don't see the rest of the wing attached.

One other question for the YYZ people, is this the same ditch that the last fatal accident at YYZ (DC-9 if I remember what Nuno said correctly) happened in?

-Mir

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: M404
Posted 2005-08-03 01:00:11 and read 62758 times.

BlatantEcho

It's an expression no matter what. By restricting their speech as you are doing you are actually the one preaching a "theology" You have your's let them have their's.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2005-08-03 01:00:27 and read 62727 times.

Weather at the time.... Time of accident reportedly 2003Z...

CYYZ 022100Z 18013KT 8SM -TSRA BKN055 BKN140 22/19 A3004 RERA RMK SC5AC2 CB ASOCTD FU ALF SLP171 =
CYYZ 022020Z 34024G33KT 3SM +TSRA FEW015 OVC040TCU 23/ RMK SF2TCU6 CB ASOCTD =
CYYZ 022000Z 29011KT 4SM +TSRA BKN051TCU BKN140 23/22 A3002 RMK TCU6AC1 CB ASOCTD LTGCC VIS LWR SW-NW 2 SLP164 =
CYYZ 022004Z CCA 34024G33KT 1 1/4SM +TSRA SCT015 OVC045TCU 23/ RMK RA2SF2TCU5 CB ASOCTD =
CYYZ 022004Z 34024G33KT 1 1/4SM +TSRA SCT015 OVC045TCU RMK RA2SF2TCU5 CB ASOCTD =
CYYZ 022000Z 29011KT 4SM +TSRA BKN051TCU BKN140 23/22 A3002 RMK TCU6AC1 CB ASOCTD LTGCC VIS LWR SW-NW 2 SLP164 =
CYYZ 021900Z 22007KT 4SM +TSRA BKN050TCU BKN080 24/23 A3003 RMK TCU6AC1 CB ASOCTD SLP168 =
CYYZ 021800Z 12002KT 8SM -TSRA SCT035TCU BKN090 23/22 A3003 RERA RMK TCU3AC3 CB ASOCTD SLP167 =
CYYZ 021728Z CCA 13003KT 10SM TS SCT040TCU BKN090 23/ RERA RMK TCU4AC2 CB ASOCTD =
CYYZ 021728Z 13003KT 10SM TS SCT040TCU BKN090 23/ RMK TCU4AC2CB ASOCTD =
CYYZ 021700Z 08008G16KT 10SM -TSRA BKN040TCU BKN080 24/21 A3005 RMK TCU6AC2 CB ASOCTD LTGCG VIS LWR E / NW SLP174 =
CYYZ 021715Z 29003KT 2SM +TSRA OVC040TCU 23/ RMK RA1TCU7 CBASOCTD LTGCG =
CYYZ 021700Z 08008G16KT 10SM -TSRA BKN040TCU BKN080 24/21 A3005 RMK TCU6AC2 CB ASOCTD LTGCG VIS LWR E / NW SLP174 =

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Craviation
Posted 2005-08-03 01:00:41 and read 62696 times.

CNN Latin America showed an image from Airliners.net to illustrate the Air France A340....only that they used an A321 image!!! Way to go Press!!! Always informing in such rush!!!  no 
I'm looking for the image...once I find it I'll post it.

regards

Andre

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FutureFO
Posted 2005-08-03 01:01:26 and read 62622 times.

Well all of you that do not listen to the safety briefings from us F/A's this may teach you a lesson. Remember that we are there for your safety and service is secondary. Please take in mind that and don't forget. Even when I am traveling as a passenger I still listen to the safety briefings.


Sean from MCO and MKE

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tom_EDDF
Posted 2005-08-03 01:02:15 and read 62546 times.

I'm wondering about a couple of things here:

- why did the fire, as it looks like, brake out in the aft fuselage section? As far as I know there's no fuel tank in rear segment of the fuselage, so what was igniting this fire?

- on a FBW aircraft, as well as on other long range airliners, I understand electrical power is generated by a RAT in case all other sources of electrical power are lost. Now if they got struck by lightning, there's probably not enough time nor altitude and speed to activate the RAT?

- how does braking work on FBW aircraft? If all sources of braking power, i.e. wheel brakes and spoilers, are actuated by electrical power, which might have been lost prior to touch down, this might be one of the root causes of this accident.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that many modern airliners build by various manufacturers incorporate FBW technology, which is not always clear following TV coverage.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ushermittwoch
Posted 2005-08-03 01:04:12 and read 62357 times.

Good job on the Air France website:

"No particular event to be reported at this time on our whole network.
For information about our flights, please refer to the "Schedule - Flight status" section of the site."

...not!

Anyway, good to see that all people on board seem to be okay.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: CV580Freak
Posted 2005-08-03 01:04:38 and read 62321 times.

Well I see that this thread broke up a few previous friendships.......

On another matter, the KLM flight that diverted to SYR declared a fuel emergency, now I know my geography is non too hot but YYZ>SYR is not that far and the KLM flight landed safely but with 30 mins fuel remaining. Was this below the reserves required for diversions >.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 01:05:11 and read 62261 times.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 426):

In my believes lighting is almost harmless to a airplane that size.
There has been reports of the plane was "slammed" down onto the runway. It was high and bounced twice. The lightning might have created a air pocket under the plane as it landed and this would mean that it was "dropped" onto the runway. (lets call it severe turbulence at extrem low altitude).
This is just my own speculation could anyone confirm this or prove that I am completely of the chart.

sas330got

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ZakHH
Posted 2005-08-03 01:08:48 and read 61881 times.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 388):
I'm still amazed there are no fatalities. I so expected the worse ... I have never been so happy to be wrong!

Couldn't agree more.

There is several eyewitness statements (incl. pax) that indicate a possible lightning strike just as the plane touched down.

Some pax said that the plane came in "much too fast", but I am rather suspicious about such statements, as most pax would certainly have difficulties determining the landing speed from out of their seats.

It looks as if the aircraft was not fully consumed by the flames, so I guess this will be clarified soon.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Climb1
Posted 2005-08-03 01:09:22 and read 61846 times.

Sooo glad that it worked out ok. Thank god for that!
Just been listening to the recording from ATC at YYZ (thanks to LorM ) if you listen to the second recording (about 5 mins in) im sure you can hear KLM 691 declaring a low fuel emergency owing to the diversion!  Wow!

Edit-just realised that has already been posted!

[Edited 2005-08-03 01:12:32]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Liedetectors
Posted 2005-08-03 01:11:25 and read 61636 times.

Since everyone else is posting on this thread I thought I'd get in on the action too.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2005-08-03 01:13:58 and read 61428 times.

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 436):
I'm wondering about a couple of things here:

- why did the fire, as it looks like, brake out in the aft fuselage section? As far as I know there's no fuel tank in rear segment of the fuselage, so what was igniting this fire?

- on a FBW aircraft, as well as on other long range airliners, I understand electrical power is generated by a RAT in case all other sources of electrical power are lost. Now if they got struck by lightning, there's probably not enough time nor altitude and speed to activate the RAT?

- how does braking work on FBW aircraft? If all sources of braking power, i.e. wheel brakes and spoilers, are actuated by electrical power, which might have been lost prior to touch down, this might be one of the root causes of this accident.

I also think it's important to keep in mind that many modern airliners build by various manufacturers incorporate FBW technology, which is not always clear following TV coverage.

Reading your post, should we can face some "Ground the A340-300 Fleet" during a more detailed investigation ? Or it's early to this ?

Felipe

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: N754AN
Posted 2005-08-03 01:20:11 and read 60897 times.

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 443):
Since everyone else is posting on this thread I thought I'd get in on the action too.

And the above is your contribution right?

Very constructive isn't it.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BristolFlyer
Posted 2005-08-03 01:21:18 and read 60801 times.

Quoting Ushermittwoch (Reply 438):
"No particular event to be reported at this time on our whole network.
For information about our flights, please refer to the "Schedule - Flight status" section of the site."

...not!

And the US site for AF is down.

BF

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kykevin54
Posted 2005-08-03 01:21:37 and read 60775 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 391):
Not exactly a tasteful remark. I'm sure if somebody on this forum cracked a 9/11 joke you would be beside yourself in disgust.

Comparing this accident where no lives were lost to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 is not exactly a tasteful remark. A joke about a runway overrun, although out of place, cannot hold a candle to the insensitivity of a 9/11 joke.

I'm glad to hear that all are safe.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 01:27:48 and read 60232 times.

the accent of the airport pokesperson i think was south african.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2005-08-03 01:30:40 and read 60002 times.

"A witness, Corey Marx, said, "Everything looked good, sounded good. It hit the runway nice, then all of a sudden we heard the engines backing up."

It's called reversing dude...

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 436):
- why did the fire, as it looks like, brake out in the aft fuselage section? As far as I know there's no fuel tank in rear segment of the fuselage, so what was igniting this fire?

There is probably a fuselage tank. And many widebodies have stabilizer tanks. Also, oxygen tanks and probably other fluids can ignite.



Fox News: "Obviously extremely dangerous conditions." Well if they decided to land it was probably at least marginal mate.

Fox News: "Obviously the FAA and others will be investigating." First of all, despite the common belief at Fox News that the US control the world, the FAA would not investigate outside the USA. Besides, the FAA doesn't investigate at all. The NTSB does that. And they will only come in if asked to assist.

[Edited 2005-08-03 01:33:52]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YYZatcboy
Posted 2005-08-03 01:31:04 and read 59975 times.

Wow that was intense. I could not pick up anything on my scanner after the crash on the south tower or Terminal Control Unit freqs. Very happy that everyone is OK.

Joe

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JAL
Posted 2005-08-03 01:32:36 and read 59821 times.

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt or killed.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Airbazar
Posted 2005-08-03 01:32:41 and read 59813 times.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 426):
Could lighting really cause this? I really dont think so. Lighting has never been known to crash an airliner. Or really make any serious problems.

Lightening in flight may not be a big issue, but this was lightening on the ground or at least at a very critical stage of the flight, right before touch down. It could have been strong enough to slam the plane into the ground. It may have also been just windshear, or a combination of both. Either way, a hit like that, that close to the ground is never a good thing.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Luisca
Posted 2005-08-03 01:33:41 and read 59721 times.

They just said on CNN that all the lights went out just before touchdown, but that it felt like a normal landing, hard but normal. The reporter also stated the following: "the passangers say that they heard after landing the engines reved up", and then the reporter stated : It seems that the pilots were trying to regain control of the plane"

God please take these experts of the air. They should of hald the decency to check up on a little device called thrust reversers?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ushermittwoch
Posted 2005-08-03 01:34:49 and read 59616 times.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 447):
And the US site for AF is down.

That must have just happened after I was on it.
 Wink

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2005-08-03 01:36:01 and read 59519 times.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 454):
They just said on CNN that all the lights went out just before touchdown, but that it felt like a normal landing, hard but normal. The reporter also stated the following: "the passangers say that they heard after landing the engines reved up", and then the reporter stated : It seems that the pilots were trying to regain control of the plane"

God please take these experts of the air. They should of hald the decency to check up on a little device called thrust reversers?

Indeed. But if the lights went out right before shutdown, this may (yes I am speculating) indicate a lightning strike. However this should not have affected the flight controls.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Leskova
Posted 2005-08-03 01:37:00 and read 59443 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 444):
Reading your post, should we can face some "Ground the A340-300 Fleet" during a more detailed investigation ? Or it's early to this ?

The suggestion has already been made, so, unfortunately, it's not too early...

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 167):
About 15 minutes ago, the dingbat anchorwomanon Sky News speculated that because of this, all Airbus aircraft must be unsafe and that perhaps the CAA and FAA will now ground the Airbus fleet worldwide.....

THANK GOODNESS THAT EVERYONE GOT OUT ALIVE!

Let's just hope that none of the injured passengers' conditions worstens; and let's hope that the people that were on board will be able to overcome the psychological scars that they will have received from this accident... some, if not all, will probably need some serious counselling at one point or another...

Regards,
Frank

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 01:37:29 and read 59401 times.

Quoting MUCflieger (Reply 393):
is Corey Marx speaking with a typical Canadian accent?

Yes, I think so.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-03 01:37:42 and read 59386 times.

Quoting Kykevin54 (Reply 448):

Comparing this accident where no lives were lost to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 is not exactly a tasteful remark. A joke about a runway overrun, although out of place, cannot hold a candle to the insensitivity of a 9/11 joke.

I'm glad to hear that all are safe.

I did not actually compare the two events I was simply illustrating that people are more sensitive to things closer to them than those that are not. That was the point of my previous statement. I was in NY during the attacks so you don't need to explain the gravity of 9/11 to me.

YOWza

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tom_eddf
Posted 2005-08-03 01:38:36 and read 59290 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 450):

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 436):
- why did the fire, as it looks like, brake out in the aft fuselage section? As far as I know there's no fuel tank in rear segment of the fuselage, so what was igniting this fire?

There is probably a fuselage tank. And many widebodies have stabilizer tanks. Also, oxygen tanks and probably other fluids can ignite.

I know there're stabilizer tanks on the A340 but the fire - at least that's how it looked like on the TV pictures - broke out about 10 feet or so forward of the stabilizer, that's why I was wondering what kind of substance is located in that area.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ushermittwoch
Posted 2005-08-03 01:39:35 and read 59205 times.

Actually it still works for me at least.
 Smile
Must be that Elite status I've got with them and after seeing how GREAT their emergency procedures work, I am all the more happy to have AF as the airline of my choice!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Arsenal@LHR
Posted 2005-08-03 01:40:26 and read 59143 times.

It's a relief that all the passengers walked away unharmed, most crashes are fatal. Initial pictures on the news made it look quite nasty, but the fact is that this was a low impact survivable crash fortunately. But spare a thought for the passengers, they must have got the fright of their lives.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LorM
Posted 2005-08-03 01:40:36 and read 59132 times.

- how does braking work on FBW aircraft? If all sources of braking power, i.e. wheel brakes and spoilers, are actuated by electrical power, which might have been lost prior to touch down, this might be one of the root causes of this accident.

There should have been adequate pressure in the hydraulic brake reservoir if the plane lost power just before touching the runway. I'm pretty sure it was CNN who had a survivor interviewed on the phone, say that cabin lights went out just before touching the ground.

It is my understanding that if the anti-skid system failed the pilots would have the remaining pressure in the braking hydraulic reservoir for braking and would have to manually apply the toe brakes on the rudder pedals. Perhaps Slamclick's first hand knowledge could further elaborate and confirm  Smile?.

It will be interesting to see on the FDR tapes to see if the spoilers and thrust reversers were deployed when it over-ran 24L.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-03 01:41:19 and read 59075 times.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 454):
They just said on CNN that all the lights went out just before touchdown

Isn't that quite normal on landings? Maybe it was an unusual way in ehich the lights went off, but I recall light off on most flights during landing. In fact, I recall lights out even on approach many times.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Indy
Posted 2005-08-03 01:46:00 and read 58711 times.

I think that all survived is absolutely incredible news. I can only imagine the emotional rollercoast ride the families went on upon hearing the news and the relief of finding out that everyone was ok. Imagine those that were in the flight and got a way and looked back to see the jet they were just on being swallowed up by smoke and flames. That has to be a humbling experience. Congrats to those that executed their tasks flawlessly (including the emergency row passengers if applicable) resulting in no fatalities.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Espion007
Posted 2005-08-03 01:47:05 and read 58643 times.

Yea usually lights are turned off before landing as a safety precaution.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Thenoflyzone
Posted 2005-08-03 01:47:51 and read 58609 times.

Glad to see everyone is safe!

Now...on to the diversions!

Here are the ones I know about:

BAW93 from LHR diverted to YOW
BAW99 from LHR to YUL
AFL303 from SVO to YUL
ACA879 from ZRH to YOW
TCX55K from LGW to YUL
KLM691 from AMS to SYR
LTU1580 from DUS to IAG
ACA258 from YWG to YOW
MA094 from Budapest to YUL

more to come...

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2005-08-03 01:49:24]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tom_eddf
Posted 2005-08-03 01:47:57 and read 58581 times.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 457):
The suggestion has already been made, so, unfortunately, it's not too early...

Well, a lot of suggestions have been made on CNN, Fox etc. but I'd say it's unlikely that they'll ground the entire A340 fleet.

I also found it interesting that reporters and "experts" on such news channels and German TV station n-tv, which was worst in this case, come to conclusions like linking this accident to the Warsaw A320 accident some 15 years ago. On German TV, it was even said that Air France is known for having had technical problems and maintenance issues in the past, which in my eyes is absolutely incorrect, misleading and just meant to cause irritation and panic among people.

It was good to have the retired US-A330 captain on CNN who was putting things right every once in a while.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Comorin
Posted 2005-08-03 01:50:30 and read 58412 times.

Great crew, great outcome.

I wonder if the fact that the plane was low on fuel (after a long flight) helped delay the fire?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: StarAC17
Posted 2005-08-03 01:51:45 and read 58322 times.

CBC has reported that because of the heavy rainfall that the plane could have hydroplaned when touching town and therefore could not stop, and also and eyewitness reported that the plane touched down about halfway on a 9000ft runway and in rain I would only seem natural that the plane couldn't stop in time.

I'm curious what the policy is with doing a touch and go in the case if the pilot knew that he wouldn't have enough room to safely stop the plane and it could be entirely possible that he didn't know how much room he had left.

Is a pilot even aloud to do a touch and go at their own discretion if they know that they can't stop the plane safely?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Thenoflyzone
Posted 2005-08-03 01:52:23 and read 58279 times.

All planes are slowly making their way back to YYZ now.

Each one is individually asked by ATC if they are able to accept the fact that there is no crash and fire rescue available, or else they won't land!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Palladium
Posted 2005-08-03 01:58:02 and read 57898 times.

If I were on that doomed plane and survived , I as a passenger wouldn't be able to describe what was just happened, I would be like stunned for quiet a while after get off from the plane and probably start to thinking about not going to fly again for a period of time. Imagine all the traumatic ..... what would you do if you survived from a crashed plane. would you fly again in a short time period ?

I was wondering, since this accident occured in the airport area, don't they have a running 24/7 cameras that view or record the runway activities ?

So maybe they can show to us the plane when it's about to touchdown and skid off from the runway.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cruiser
Posted 2005-08-03 01:58:56 and read 57846 times.

I am just listening to YYZ Approach, and it sounds as though planes are beginning to land again, but are being advised that "No crash fire vehicles are currently available on the field at this time."

I am surprised that planes are still allowed to land! Surely telling the pilots that there are no emergency vehicles is not enough.

Anyone have any insight into this?

Cruiser

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Canuckpaxguy
Posted 2005-08-03 02:03:58 and read 57518 times.

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 473):
I am surprised that planes are still allowed to land!

Me too! Planes are flying over my house now. Has YYZ actually reopened already? Wow.

G

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Olympus69
Posted 2005-08-03 02:07:58 and read 57274 times.

A short while ago I got home from YYZ, where I had been hoping to get a picture of a Saudi Arabian B747SP that was expected at about 4:15 ET. I was in my car in the big parking lot on Carlingview, just north of the approach to runways 24L/R. I got there at about 3:45 and shortly after that it started raining heavily with several lightning strikes not far away. I saw 3 or 4 planes come in while visibility was deteriorating rapidly. The last of these, at about 4 o'clock was AF 358. A few minutes later I thought I heard the controller saying something about a plane overrunning the end of 24R.
A little later a plane on the ground asked if YYZ was closed and the controller replied that officially it was not, but unofficially it was. I then switched to the Toronto terminal frequency and the controller was working planes - including Skyservice and WestJet, that had been diverted to YHM. While I was listening to him a report came in of a Microburst in the Brampton area (a few miles NW of YYZ). This apparently was a report from the ground. Winds in the area were very variable but not excessively high - 25 knots or so.
ATIS was saying that no fixed landing runways were available and likewise the departure runway would be given to the pilots at the time of pushback. Temperature was reported as being 23C, dewpoint 22C. This was the 4pm atis report, obviously issued just before the accident. A broken line of thunderstorms was reported on a line from 20 miles west of Buffalo, north to Muskoka (about 100 miles north of Toronto). Temperatures in the Toronto area had been much higher in the morning, before the cold front went through.
The satellite pictures of YYZ that have appeared in other posts are not up-to-date. They show runway 24L under construction. It has been in service since 2002 I believe. Planes had been landing this afternoon on 24L. I'm not sure whether AF358 landed on the left or the right side.
There were 437 replies to this topic when I started reading it, and I only read a few dozen. Therefore I don't know whether or not I might be repeating information that has already been posted.
I never did find out where the Saudi 747SP went.
John.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Phollingsworth
Posted 2005-08-03 02:09:02 and read 57175 times.

Quoting LorM (Reply 463):
It will be interesting to see on the FDR tapes to see if the spoilers and thrust reversers were deployed when it over-ran 24L.

I agree that the FDR "tapes" may be very educational. While I believe that the the thrust reversers are probably not critical (if they were the pilots should not have put the plane down), the spoilers are absolutely essential to proper breaking performance. If anyone remembers the AA MD-80 accident in Little Rock, the crew forgot to arm and deploy the spoilers. This made it impossible for the aircraft to stop in the availible runway (not just the runway remaining, but the entire length from the touchdown point). The A340 spoilers are FBW, so it is concievably possible that a complete loss ot the FBW computers could cause a spoiler deployment failure.

All of the above being said I will not speculate on the cause(s) of the accident without further information. However, using my great 20-20 hindsight it was probably not the best of decisions to land that particular aircraft, on that particular runway, at that particular time (duh). This does not imply that the information the flight crew had would have lead them to this conclusion.

Also, since it seems that all have survived with relatively minor injuries, from the pictures I have seen it looks like there might be a fair amount of salvageable items on the aircraft, if you don't mind alot of smoke and wate damage.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Espion007
Posted 2005-08-03 02:09:39 and read 57121 times.

Well since No one has died we can start joking now  Smile



"It was on autopilot!!"

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YOWguy
Posted 2005-08-03 02:12:38 and read 56911 times.

Some are diverting to other airports...because of fire vehicles not available. Insurance dictates that there is fire coverage.

Some AC flights and others are holding because their dispatch is telling them to do so...as YYZ is telling them fire not available until 9:30 pm.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EMBQA
Posted 2005-08-03 02:13:31 and read 56852 times.

UA777222...reply 418...

So much for the media...


So tell me what's wrong with those numbers...? They look exactly the same as what's on Airbus.com...?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: SAS330GOT
Posted 2005-08-03 02:14:18 and read 56795 times.

Crash fire service will be available at YYZ with in 1 hour 1.5 hour.
From Liveatc.net

sas330got

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cruiser
Posted 2005-08-03 02:14:34 and read 56780 times.

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 472):
Anyone have any insight into this?

I guess I will answer my own post! I was listening some more, and apparently, many airlines are not allowed to land under these conditions. This is due to insurance.

ATC is currently giving the pilots the option to land or wait until these services are available!

Cruiser

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Glideslope
Posted 2005-08-03 02:16:56 and read 56613 times.

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 473):
Anyone have any insight into this?

May the Luck of the Irish be with ya!!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Simong
Posted 2005-08-03 02:19:30 and read 56454 times.

Does anyone know what hotel that the Air France crew now stays at in Toronto. We would like to go there with flowers for all the crew members onboard. They obviously did a most fantastic job of what they are trained to do. We do not wish to try to talk with them or interupt their need for rest and sorrow ..... simply deliver some flowers for a job well done. It is the least we can do. From a YYZ BA staff who has followed todays events, please let them rest and know that every single moment of training and recurrent training they have have ever been through came to fruition today. Bless you .

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LipeGIG
Posted 2005-08-03 02:20:30 and read 56389 times.

Quoting Tom_eddf (Reply 464):
I also found it interesting that reporters and "experts" on such news channels and German TV station n-tv, which was worst in this case, come to conclusions like linking this accident to the Warsaw A320 accident some 15 years ago. On German TV, it was even said that Air France is known for having had technical problems and maintenance issues in the past, which in my eyes is absolutely incorrect, misleading and just meant to cause irritation and panic among people.

At that time we will see a lot of "experts" like ex-capitains talking about the probabilities. Same happen in Brazil when the JJ F100 crashed near CGH.
Also, if AF decided to ground all A340-300 fleet, they will have a bad time to keep all services they have.

Felipe

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KarlB737
Posted 2005-08-03 02:26:07 and read 56065 times.

Video Report Via CTV In Toronto:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTempla...108000-00108119-clip3&subhub=video

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Derik737
Posted 2005-08-03 02:29:35 and read 55870 times.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 470):
CBC has reported that because of the heavy rainfall that the plane could have hydroplaned when touching town and therefore could not stop, and also and eyewitness reported that the plane touched down about halfway on a 9000ft runway and in rain I would only seem natural that the plane couldn't stop in time.

Though I am not stating what occurred, this accident sounds similar to the Taca 767 in Guatemala City, Guatemala in April, 1993. In that accident the aircraft touched down more than 3500 feet down 10,001 foot runway 19. The aircraft was unable to stop on the rain-slick runway, departing the left side of the runway, and running down an embankment into several homes.

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 435):
- why did the fire, as it looks like, brake out in the aft fuselage section? As far as I know there's no fuel tank in rear segment of the fuselage, so what was igniting this fire?

If lightning did indeed strike the aircraft, a poor bond on a component the lightning may have struck could have potentially lead to a fire. It has been documented on composite drain masts for instance, but to the best of my knowledge never resulted in a sustainable fire (there was evidence in the form of burned insulation blankets and charred wiring).

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 435):
- on a FBW aircraft, as well as on other long range airliners, I understand electrical power is generated by a RAT in case all other sources of electrical power are lost. Now if they got struck by lightning, there's probably not enough time nor altitude and speed to activate the RAT?

The Ram Air Turbine or RAT will automatically deploy on the A340 if I am not mistaken. In this case, it sounded the like the engines were still running so you should have had hydraulics (mechanical pumps and electrical valves should remain open with loss of power). Also you should have standby power from the main batteries which I would assume provide power to at least enough flight control computers to maintain control.

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 435):
- how does braking work on FBW aircraft? If all sources of braking power, i.e. wheel brakes and spoilers, are actuated by electrical power, which might have been lost prior to touch down, this might be one of the root causes of this accident.

As I stated above, you should have had hydraulics still available if the engines were turning. Brakes should have been operable. Since I'm not a systems expert on the A340, I am not sure if spoilers would be operable with just standby power (still find it hard to imagine they could have lost all 115V power).

Udo can probably help out here and let you know if the brakes are electrically actuated or mechanically controlled.

It is a blessing to see that the passengers/crew are safe. My kudos to the cabin crew for a job well done!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Brian_ga
Posted 2005-08-03 02:42:05 and read 55101 times.

See it really does pay to listen to the safety announcements during pre-flight. Again kudos to Air France and the flight attendants and the passengers for being able to get off that aircraft in a fast manner.

Brian_ga  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Olympus69
Posted 2005-08-03 02:42:24 and read 55084 times.

One item I forgot to mention in my rather lengthy post (currently reply 463)
was that I heard the tower telling one arriving plane - it could have been AF358, stating 'Braking action reported as poor'
John..

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Captaingomes
Posted 2005-08-03 02:53:25 and read 54482 times.

I was at work at the time by the airport, and found out pretty shortly afterwards. I could only see the smoke from where I was, and the whole operation went into a different mode. The main reason why I am replying here is to show a picture of the general area from the best of my understanding of where this accident took place. The picture is from Google Satellite Maps, and I circled the general area.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/668/yyzaf358crashsite2hw.jpg

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Mr Spaceman
Posted 2005-08-03 02:53:51 and read 54464 times.

Hi guys.

>> Hello Mir ........

Quoting Mir (Reply 430):
One other question for the YYZ people, is this the same ditch that the last fatal accident at YYZ (DC-9 if I remember what Nuno said correctly) happened in?

Yes that is correct. The Air France A340 involved in todays crash at YYZ came to rest in almost the exact same spot in the ravine as the DC-9 you're asking about.

I remember when that happened. I was in Junior High in grade 7. Big grin

Here's a report on that crash .......

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780626-0

Chris  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-08-03 02:55:17 and read 54397 times.

liveatc.net has the mp3 archives from today's events at YYZ - 16h00 archive at about 2:15 time stamp in the mp3 file.
First diversion went to London, ON.
/Milan320

[Edited 2005-08-03 02:59:16]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Sharpnfuzzy
Posted 2005-08-03 02:59:24 and read 54167 times.

Live 401 traffic Cam



http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra...er/compass/camera/loc37.htm#camera

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: EZEIZA
Posted 2005-08-03 03:01:15 and read 54056 times.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 457):
At that time we will see a lot of "experts" like ex-capitains talking about the probabilities. Same happen in Brazil when the JJ F100 crashed near CGH.

boy do I remember that one ... both my dad and my uncle were supposed to be on that flight since they frequently flew the SP-Rio ponte aereo for business, but they cancelled last minute because of other business. I remember waking up that morning, turning the tv on and watching the breaking news from SP .... scary stuff

I can imagine that anyone who was watching today's events and had a loved one on that flight, or thought they might have been on that flight must have felt the same.
Luckily, today's events went well compared to the JJ.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aseem
Posted 2005-08-03 03:05:13 and read 53816 times.

funny part is that The Globe and Mail still says that "a small plane has crashed"..
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...50802.wcrash0801/BNStory/National/

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Neverest
Posted 2005-08-03 03:07:37 and read 53692 times.

Some people are quick to take advantage of any situation.
http://www.hshlawyers.com/

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BeechNut
Posted 2005-08-03 03:07:49 and read 53684 times.

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 292):
I'm hearing now that in Canada, the crew reminds people the safety rules just before the landing.. is that true?

Yes Transport Canada now requires a safety briefing before landing on all flights greater than 4 hours duration.

Mike

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA772IAD
Posted 2005-08-03 03:10:25 and read 53560 times.

All passengers and crew are safe, Thank God! An accident like this, where the airplane overshot the runway makes me VERY skeptical of cell phone usage onboard-- whether it played a role in the accident or not.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2005-08-03 03:10:34 and read 53549 times.

Some pax said that the plane came in "much too fast", but I am rather suspicious about such statements, as most pax would certainly have difficulties determining the landing speed from out of their seats.

Indeed, I think you can probably discount that. It's probably actually more likely that they touched down too far beyond the runway threshold. That's the culprit in runway overruns *far* more often than excessive speed (which is almost impossible in a modern airliner - too much speed and you don't land, you fly!).

The question for me is whether this was an automatic landing or not. If it was, that brings up a whole host of issues - and in bad weather, auto-landings are often the *only* landings permissible. But we'll see. It may have been a manual landing, in which case the question is going to be whether the cockpit crew's actions did more to help or hurt the situation.

I do get as sick as anyone of these newspeople acting like they know anything. The CNN anchor a few minutes ago actually asked a correspondent "how could the weather not be the cause of this?" Uh, duh? Plenty of accidents have happened in bad weather that were not caused by the bad weather, and plenty of planes land safely every day in bad weather too. Bad weather should not cause a plane to crash - if the weather was too bad to land in, the pilots wouldn't have tried to land. (And if they did, it'd be their fault, not the weather's.)

It sorta reminds me of that AA MD-80 crash a few years ago - that was just pilot error, if I recall. They landed in a thunderstorm too far down the runway and couldn't stop in time. That's all. It's probably *the* most common type of accident involving hull loss, if you go through the NTSB's accident reports, though luckily also one of the most survivable.

And thank goodness everybody's safe after this accident - that's really amazing.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2005-08-03 03:11:48 and read 53472 times.

THE most important thing is that there was no loss of life.

For the experts throwing out 'reasons why,' here's mine:

There was a cow on the runway.  yes 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cltguy
Posted 2005-08-03 03:12:58 and read 53418 times.

It is clearly the great engineers that designed this plane and the great Air France crew that saved the lives of these people today.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: STARalliance24
Posted 2005-08-03 03:22:27 and read 52900 times.

This is going to hurt Air France!!! But at least their where no casulties. The pilot and co-pilot are safe.  relieved 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA772IAD
Posted 2005-08-03 03:23:03 and read 52870 times.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 462):
The question for me is whether this was an automatic landing or not. If it was, that brings up a whole host of issues - and in bad weather, auto-landings are often the *only* landings permissible.

Exactly-- that's key to understanding what went on, and I'm certainly not ruling out cell phone usage in my mind.

Once again, it's good to see everyone walk away from that one.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TGV
Posted 2005-08-03 03:28:59 and read 52577 times.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 390):
It is procedure to turn the lights out during arrival/depature as it causes your eyes to dilate and could hamper your evacuation speed in the case of an emergency. I would guess that that is the reason in which the lights were out.

After 20 years of flying, I finally have an explanation to this fact. Thanks!

Now we know everybody is OK, I will, after having praised the AF crew, and contrary to Concordeboy, lament on the loss of an A340, which happens to be my preferred aircraft, and that I have used extensively on the AF network fromCDG to SEL, SGN, HAN or CCS.

And I will selfishly hope that the 340 operations will allow tomorrow flight AF169 SGN-BKK-CDG, as I am flying on it!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: NBC News1
Posted 2005-08-03 03:32:01 and read 52393 times.

Air France is receiving families, friends (maybe passengers?) at the Terminal 3 Sheraton.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jyatlantic
Posted 2005-08-03 03:33:15 and read 52342 times.

I doubt an automatic landing was in place on this flight. YYZ was under "red-alert" even before AF358 touched down.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2005-08-03 03:36:19 and read 52187 times.

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 426):
It's a relief that all the passengers walked away unharmed, most crashes are fatal.

There are plenty of survivable crashes.

Quoting LorM (Reply 427):
It will be interesting to see on the FDR tapes to see if the spoilers and thrust reversers were deployed when it over-ran 24L.

Yes, but note that thrust reversers are not included in landing distance calculations.

Quoting Espion007 (Reply 430):
Yea usually lights are turned off before landing as a safety precaution.

Yes but reports say that lights went out just before landing. Quite different.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 433):
I wonder if the fact that the plane was low on fuel (after a long flight) helped delay the fire?

Jepp.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 434):

I'm curious what the policy is with doing a touch and go in the case if the pilot knew that he wouldn't have enough room to safely stop the plane and it could be entirely possible that he didn't know how much room he had left.



Is a pilot even aloud to do a touch and go at their own discretion if they know that they can't stop the plane safely?


Absolutely. A touch and go is just another form of go around. The pilots can do it at their discretion. In fact, if any of the pilots (or ATC) says "go around" they have to. With low minima the only form of go around available may be a touch and go.


Quoting Palladium (Reply 436):
If I were on that doomed plane and survived , I

How exactly was it doomed?

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 448):
Also, if AF decided to ground all A340-300 fleet, they will have a bad time to keep all services they have.

Well there does not seem at this time any reason to ground the 340.

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 450):
Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 435):
- on a FBW aircraft, as well as on other long range airliners, I understand electrical power is generated by a RAT in case all other sources of electrical power are lost. Now if they got struck by lightning, there's probably not enough time nor altitude and speed to activate the RAT?

The Ram Air Turbine or RAT will automatically deploy on the A340 if I am not mistaken. In this case, it sounded the like the engines were still running so you should have had hydraulics (mechanical pumps and electrical valves should remain open with loss of power). Also you should have standby power from the main batteries which I would assume provide power to at least enough flight control computers to maintain control.

Indeed, RAT would not have had to deploy. And there would be no time for it.

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 465):
This is going to hurt Air France!!!

Probably not. If nothing else, the F/As have gained quite a bit of kudoes.


And now CNN is saying "No Airbus 340 has ever crashed". But what about the Sabena. Didn't they break a gear once? Seems about as serious as this.

"Experts are saying what happened it's amazing". I don't wanna detract from the wonder, but there are plenty of emergency doors and slides. The plane went into a shallow ravine relatively slowly. The fuse was intact. As long as the fire doesn't spread too fast, it's quite possible to survive.

[Edited 2005-08-03 03:38:37]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Danny
Posted 2005-08-03 03:41:46 and read 51920 times.

Quoting Climb1 (Reply 407):
KLM 691 declaring a low fuel emergency owing to the diversion!

I was wondering why the hell would you go to Syracuse? It's a 240 miles drive for the pax. Why not London in the first place, and if not why not BUF?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2005-08-03 03:51:00 and read 51500 times.

Quoting Danny (Reply 471):
I was wondering why the hell would you go to Syracuse? It's a 240 miles drive for the pax. Why not London in the first place, and if not why not BUF?

Could be bad weather in BUF. Also can BUF take a transatlantic heavy?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Danny
Posted 2005-08-03 04:06:04 and read 50851 times.

First of all there is London, ON which has 8800ft (which is enough especially in emergency) and had good weather. That is where most of other flights went. SYR has 9003ft while Hamilton, ON which controllers suggested has 10.000ft.

[Edited 2005-08-03 04:08:18]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tom in NO
Posted 2005-08-03 04:08:11 and read 50737 times.

From reply #370: "How far away from the crash site are the emergency services based ? Witnesses said they were on the scene in as little as 30 seconds, so the reaction must have been extraordinarily quick."

In the U.S. there are FAA guidelines that dictate where an airport fire station must be located on an airport. Basically, it must be in such a location so that the response time of the quickest ARFF vehicle is no longer than (I believe) 3 1/2 minutes to the midpoint of the farthest runway. The response time for the slowest ARFF vehicle can be no more than (I believe) 4 1/2 minutes to the midpoint of the farthest runways (I have the exact response times in my office at the airport). If an airport is large enough that those response times cannot be met, then additional ARFF stations must be built. Hence, airports like ATL, DFW, ORD, etc have multiple ARFF stations.

I'm not sure what NavCanada or whoever regulates Candadian airports require, but the closest ARFF station to this incident must have been very close by.

Tom at MSY

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kmh1956
Posted 2005-08-03 04:08:40 and read 50713 times.

I've read so many posts on this suject now that my mind is spinning.I think we can glean from this some very important facts:
*We should all be thankful that everyone survived
*

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 426):
It's a relief that all the passengers walked away unharmed

I think that all the passengers on board have been harmed.....psychologically. Can anyone here honestly say that walking away from something this traumatic would have NO lasting effects on them? These people will carry this memory as long as they live.
*It's way too early for all this speculation. It would make so much more sense to wait until after a thorough investigation has been carried out and concluded before discussing possible causes.
*I think it's safe to say that flight attendants are not just there to make sure you get your scotch and peanuts. Anyone who can look at a F/A after something like this and think of them as nothing but a glorified waiter/waitress seriously needs an attitude adjustment.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Falcon flyer
Posted 2005-08-03 04:08:53 and read 50702 times.

KLM691 was shown as a 747-400, CYXU might not have been feasible with other aircraft diverting there. It looks like FIN2417 went to london.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HZ747300
Posted 2005-08-03 04:13:41 and read 50499 times.

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 431):
KLM691 from AMS to SYR

Cool, I wonder if someone could snap a picture of the KLM plane in SYR!

Other than that, this reminds me of the plane that broke apart on Christmas Day a long time ago. I think it was an SAS plane, and the prime minister called it a Christmas Miracle.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YYZatcboy
Posted 2005-08-03 04:13:46 and read 50496 times.

the KL flight went to SYR and then YUL IIRC

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: VirginA340
Posted 2005-08-03 04:14:14 and read 50469 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 30):
Flight Status Arrived

Yeah ........... they arrived, alright...

My thoughts and prayers for the people on board and their families.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Yhmfan
Posted 2005-08-03 04:24:23 and read 49998 times.

Air France's Press Release:

http://www.airfrance.ca/presse/en/yto50802_2.htm

Excerpt:

The aircraft, an Airbus A340, registered F-GLZQ was received by the Company on September 7, 1999. The jet logged 28.418 flight hours and 3.711 take-offs and landings. The last maintenance check occurred on July 5 2005, at Charles de Gaulle Airport.

The two pilots in command and the cabin crew were Air France experienced staff.

The 57-year-old Captain joined the Company in 1982 and logged more than 15.000 flight hours, including 1.800 on Airbus A340.

The 43-year-old first officer joined Air France in 1985 and logged 10.700 flight hours, 2.500 of which were on Airbus A340.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: StevenUhl777
Posted 2005-08-03 04:27:15 and read 49874 times.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 475):
*I think it's safe to say that flight attendants are not just there to make sure you get your scotch and peanuts. Anyone who can look at a F/A after something like this and think of them as nothing but a glorified waiter/waitress seriously needs an attitude adjustment.

Amen. But I've read comments on this board implying that f/a's are just that. Pathetic!

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 475):
I think that all the passengers on board have been harmed.....psychologically. Can anyone here honestly say that walking away from something this traumatic would have NO lasting effects on them? These people will carry this memory as long as they live.

That's right...it may not dawn on these pax what truly happened to them until a while after. Post traumatic stress. Some will never fly again, some will fly tomorrow. All depends on the individual.

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 465):
This is going to hurt Air France!!!

How? We don't even know if AF was responsible in any way yet? If anything, it demonstrates how well their crew performed, and the fact that everyone survived (yeah!) will always be associated with this disaster. The only thing that didn't survive was the aircraft and ConcordeBoy's credibility on a-net. What a stupid f-ing remark. What a dumbass...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2005-08-03 04:31:06 and read 49730 times.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 474):
From reply #370: "How far away from the crash site are the emergency services based ? Witnesses said they were on the scene in as little as 30 seconds, so the reaction must have been extraordinarily quick."

In the U.S. there are FAA guidelines that dictate where an airport fire station must be located on an airport. Basically, it must be in such a location so that the response time of the quickest ARFF vehicle is no longer than (I believe) 3 1/2 minutes to the midpoint of the farthest runway. The response time for the slowest ARFF vehicle can be no more than (I believe) 4 1/2 minutes to the midpoint of the farthest runways (I have the exact response times in my office at the airport). If an airport is large enough that those response times cannot be met, then additional ARFF stations must be built. Hence, airports like ATL, DFW, ORD, etc have multiple ARFF stations.

I'm not sure what NavCanada or whoever regulates Candadian airports require, but the closest ARFF station to this incident must have been very close by.

Tom at MSY

You are close, Tom. The first ARFF unit must be at the site (if on the airport) within 3 minutes, all ARFF equipment must be there within 4 minutes (CFR part 139). NavCanada has the same requirements as the US FAA does.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HZ747300
Posted 2005-08-03 04:36:35 and read 49478 times.

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 475):
I think that all the passengers on board have been harmed.....psychologically. Can anyone here honestly say that walking away from something this traumatic would have NO lasting effects on them? These people will carry this memory as long as they live.

There was a program on about the MD80 AA crash in Little Rock, ironically, also in wet conditions. The lady at the end of show remembered looking out of the hospital window and seeing people going on about their business and feeling resentful that life went on--she said for her, for that moment, it stopped.

Quoting Climb1 (Reply 323):
297pax and 12 crew. Reuters (or however u spell it!)

You spelled it correctly, but saying it is where people screw up.... ROY-ters... Not Roo-TERS, that's the people that clean your toilets.

The survivor accounts are very interesting to read--Just an FYI, this morning on Australian TV, they were blaming the lightning. I think they had live continuous coverage from a highway cam too. By the time I left for work, they had determined that all had lived and this thread had 369 posts already.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Fly_yhm
Posted 2005-08-03 04:36:50 and read 49490 times.

Diversions to YHM

There were roughly 6 westjet 737-700 and 1 737-800
Air Canada about 4 A320s and 1 A319
Skyservice had 3 A320s
SkyService/Sky Tours 1 757-200
Thomas Cook Airlines(UK) 757-200
EL AL 767-300


I think this was about it. From what I could tell they bussed most of the people and tried to unload the aircraft at YHM

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MissedApproach
Posted 2005-08-03 04:37:32 and read 49434 times.

I saw the press interviewing a "survivor". That was a close call! Not the crash, the press- he's lucky they didn't suck the blood right out of him! He said people were clapping when they first touched down- wonder how long that lasted? Idiots.
There's also footage of a foam truck using a water cannon on the fire- I imagine the airframe will be a write-off anyway, but it certainly helps the invesitagation.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: OPNLguy
Posted 2005-08-03 04:48:47 and read 48927 times.

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 485):
I imagine the airframe will be a write-off anyway,

Understatement of the year...  Wink

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TRVYYZ
Posted 2005-08-03 04:55:56 and read 48610 times.

I went to YYZ, the plane is below the ground level and only smoke can be seen



It is really a miracle that all passengers are alive. Saved all of us from a great tragedy.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Thenoflyzone
Posted 2005-08-03 04:58:10 and read 48591 times.

OK....some update on the diversions, continuation wiht regards to my previous post...

ACA891 from FCO, diverted to YUL, now safely landed in YYZ
ACA817 from AMS, diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
ACA849 from LHR, diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
ACA894 from SNN, diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
AFL303 from SVO, diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
MAH094 from BUD diverted to YUL, trying to get to YYZ
RZO371 from OPO diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
BAW99 from LHR diverted to YUL, now in YYZ
TCX55K from LGW diverted to YUL, then to YHM, dunno if he made it to YYZ

ACA1152 from YYC diverted to YOW, now in YYZ
ACA157 from YYT diverted to YOW, now in YYZ
ACA879 from ZRH diverted to YOW, now in YYZ
BAW93 from LHR diverted to YOW, now in YYZ
ACA258 from YWG diverted to YOW, now in YYZ

ACA116 from YVR diverted to YYB, now in YYZ
ACA126 from YEG diverted to YYB, now in YYZ
ACA130 from YVR diverted to YYB, now in YYZ
ACA786 from LAX diverted to YYB, now in YYZ

FIN2417 from HEL diverted to YXU, now in YYZ

KLM691 from AMS diverted to SYR, wanted to go to YUL, but flew directly to YYZ

LTU1580 from DUS diverted to IAG, now in YYZ

thenoflyzone

[Edited 2005-08-03 05:09:36]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Falcon84
Posted 2005-08-03 05:02:14 and read 48336 times.

Well, since I didn't get to join in the "fun", as it were, since I was at work, a few thought:

-Amazing the incredible speculation that takes place immediately after the accident on here. Let's let the investigators have their day. But having said that....

-When I was on break about 5pm, saw the pics on CNN, and sat down to get a feel as to what was happening. It took about 30 minutes, really, fok me to make out the aircraft amid the smoke, and to see which way it was pointing. Also at that time, an eyewitness on CNN gave us directions-that the plane was facing west, and most of the cars on 401 were visible going east-OK, that let me know the plane HAD landed, and, knowing the winds were basically out of the west in YYZ, I knew that windshear, which Wolfie and Myles were talking about probably didn't bring it down. I even said out loud "I'll bet they hyodroplaned across the runway, and couldn't slow down". Like you guys, just a guess, but I think it played a part in it.

-Never trust onboard accounts, I think. Everything is a blur to the people onboard.

-News stations don't know a damn, and have never bothered to educate themselves about the airline industry. It may be the one industry they're the most ignorant about.

-They're not "stewerdesses" people. You saw the main reason for the folks onboard today-safety. Kudo's to the crew, for obviously keeping their heads.

-Thank the Lord above everyone came out of this OK.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2005-08-03 05:02:25 and read 48329 times.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 487):

It is really a miracle that all passengers are alive. Saved all of us from a great tragedy.

Great pics! Thanks for sharing.
Sad event: Any accident is.
Happy ending: No casualties to regret.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AsstChiefMark
Posted 2005-08-03 05:06:32 and read 48149 times.

He said people were clapping when they first touched down- wonder how long that lasted? Idiots.

Maybe this will put an end to this stupid tradition. Do we applaud the postman when he successfully gets all the mail in the slot? Do we applaud the janitor when he successfully replaces a light bulb?

Mark

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Indy
Posted 2005-08-03 05:13:20 and read 47846 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 491):
Do we applaud the postman when he successfully gets all the mail in the slot?

I've had a mailman in the past that was so bad it was almost necessary.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Travatl
Posted 2005-08-03 05:13:58 and read 47830 times.

Anybody happen to have the routing for this aircraft for the past week? I was on an AirFrance A343 CDG-BOS a week ago today (26JUL05). Due to a tight connection at CDG, never got the reg.... just curious.

Travis

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Lnglive1011yyz
Posted 2005-08-03 05:31:18 and read 47135 times.

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 431):
KLM691 from AMS to SYR

I personally witnessed this flight return to YYZ around 930 pm local time tonite.

It was a welcomed site, to be honest.

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 431):
LTU1580 from DUS to IAG

Again, saw this flight return tonite as well.

Both landed on 23.

All I can say is that, being a local spotter, this really hit home. You always see these things in places like The US, or Europe, or .. somewhere *not* in your backyard, yet when it happens, it really does affect you and makes you think about things, and put things in perspective.

It was nice spending the evening at YYZ with a close friend, also a YYZ spotter tonight. I felt like I needed to be there. We weren't near the AF plane, and we didn't really focus on that to be honest. It was nice to be there, to watch the diversions return.

Glad everyone is safe. Tonight could have been a very bad night for us, and all involved.

1011yyz. (mike)

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Lnglive1011yyz
Posted 2005-08-03 05:51:11 and read 46428 times.

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 487):
I went to YYZ, the plane is below the ground level and only smoke can be seen

That's two crashes for us this year Santhosh.

I hope it's the last.

Scary.

1011yyz

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Usnseallt82
Posted 2005-08-03 05:56:16 and read 46262 times.

Okay, I'll jump in on this real quick as well.

To all those bashing the media...true, they are as ignorant as ever about aviation. But the jumping to conclusions and speculation that they seem to be experts in is only rivaled by some on A.net. I'm surprised to see some of these comments that came in today and hope that there isn't another event like this to prove the ignorance of some of our own members.

Secondly, bad weather equals bad consequences. No way around that. But it seems as though the flight crew at least had everything together perfectly for the evacuation, regardless of what the accident report will say about the actual flight and possible errors. While they may or may not have had a hand in the unfolding of this, they sure knew how to get the people out when the worst happened. I have all the respect for them and their duties.

Lastly, I hope that the investigation itself can progress quickly to find out exactly what happened and to prevent it from happening again. I'll be interested to see the findings, since there really are so many different possibilities that could have caused this. At least, and thank God for it, this is an investigation without the deaths of hundreds looming over the entire process. Truly a remarkable recovery from such a major accident.

Well, there's my two cents! To all goodnight and God be with those who endured this.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Lnglive1011yyz
Posted 2005-08-03 06:02:58 and read 46051 times.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 380):
The aircraft came to rest only 655' off the end of the runway. A 600' EMAS would have stopped the aircraft and/or a Safety area of 1,000' may have been enough to provide the additional stop distance needed. Truly sad.

That may work well when you have ROOM for a 600' arrestor bed.

Unfortunately, in this case, you have paved runway, some paved working area (inc. a crossing ground vehicle road), other pertinent equipment, and then a HUGE perhaps 25-35 foot DROP into a ravine. Clearly not 600' worth of room to develop such a system.

I DO Agree however, that something DOES need to be changed. The same thing exists on the 05/23. on the 23 end, there's a very popular restaurant and a Petro Canada gas station.

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 415):
Wow that was intense. I could not pick up anything on my scanner after the crash on the south tower or Terminal Control Unit freqs. Very happy that everyone is OK.

That's funny. It appeared for quite some time after they either weren't broadcasting on those frequencies, or somehow they had "tweaked" the frequency somehow. I wasnt' receiving anything, and I was there right beside the airport.

1011yyz

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TRVYYZ
Posted 2005-08-03 06:05:05 and read 45975 times.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 495):
That's two crashes for us this year Santhosh.

I hope it's the last.

Me too.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Tnsaf
Posted 2005-08-03 06:05:15 and read 45971 times.

The investigation will take months to come to the true cause and like all incidents it will be the result of a chain of events, not just one specific issue such as windshear or lightning. You will find that there were many opportunities for the chain to be broken.

A word of caution, eyewitness accounts are notoriously inaccurate (especially non-technical ones) and can be influenced by the interrogator and recollections of other witnesses.

All the speculation by the armchair experts on this site is a waste of bandwidth.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ha763
Posted 2005-08-03 06:06:36 and read 45920 times.

This may or may not have any relevence, but this accident reminds me of two similar accidents that occurred at PPT. One involved an AF 747-400 (F-GITA) and the other a HA DC-10-10 (N132AA). Both aircraft were landing in poor weather conditions, lots of rain and wind, and both ended up as runway excursions with their noses in the water. However, neither aircraft caught fire.

I can't read French, which the report on F-GITA is available in, but the report on N132AA is in English and finds that they landed well past the threshold and likely hydroplaned as well.

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/2000/n-aa001224a/htm/n-aa001224a.html#286

http://www.bea-fr.org/docspa/1993/f-ta930913/pdf/f-ta930913.pdf

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flybynight
Posted 2005-08-03 06:06:57 and read 45903 times.

Certainly the best outcome for a bad situation.

But, man, these TV reporters are annoying.
First of all they question if YYZ is safe. The damn area is flat and open.
Then they question Air France safety record. Maybe the reporters should be more concerned with knowing the facts before pointing fingers.
The next question is to always probe into the safety record of the airplane, followed closely by the age of the aircraft.
Reporters who do these types of accident coverage should have a little more basic understanding, or maybe they are just out to sensationalize the whole thing. I can understand not knowing if it was an Airbus A340 or a 777 (esp. since AF flies them both).
You'd think with all the flying Wolfe Blizter must have done, he should know there aren't 737's crossing the ocean for public flights. Oh well.
This was an accident in bad weather (well, OK, I'm being a little presumptuous here).
Just glad to see everyone alive. That is so cool after something like this. Amazing actually.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ScarletHarlot
Posted 2005-08-03 06:18:23 and read 45475 times.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 497):
on the 23 end, there's a very popular restaurant and a Petro Canada gas station.

My God, imagine if this happened on 5. That would have been carnage.

[Edited 2005-08-03 06:19:10]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-08-03 06:21:39 and read 45363 times.

Is this the biggest thread ever on A.net (views/responses)??....I haven't been here long enough to know...

that being said...I'm very happy and relieved there weren't any fatalities, simply amazing!.....my cousin lives a few miles away in Etobicoke-just a few minutes away from YYZ...he said it was mayhem on the expressway....

even if they were responsible/partially responsible for the crash, the pilots did a great job post-crash..... thumbsup .....hats off to them!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2005-08-03 06:22:01 and read 45349 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 491):
Maybe this will put an end to this stupid tradition. Do we applaud the postman when he successfully gets all the mail in the slot? Do we applaud the janitor when he successfully replaces a light bulb?

Sorry but that sound so bitter. I can't stop clapping AF's crew members and YYZ ground staff for their job... More than 300 persons re-borned today thanks to that amazing people.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: 60Victor
Posted 2005-08-03 06:23:08 and read 45320 times.

Just glad to hear everybody survived! Well done Air France Crew!
It will be interesting to find out if the plane was doing an autoland or a manual landing as another poster mentioned. On CNN earlier a planespotter witness said that it looked like the Air France A340 had landed a little deeper on the runway than the two previous planes that landed. If this has any thing to do with the outcome remains to be seen.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Smeagol
Posted 2005-08-03 06:24:10 and read 45274 times.

OMG! There was a heavy shower this morning in Beijing and I was shocked to see this news when I finally arrived in office. Check out the news on China media (unfortunately in Chinese...)

http://news.sina.com.cn/w/p/2005-08-03/07537397432.shtml

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Stirling
Posted 2005-08-03 06:31:37 and read 45025 times.

Since I've been working all day, this is my first chance to chime in.
When I first heard about this, I imagined the worst...so pleased and overjoyed to find the passengers and crew danced with fate, and lived to tell about it.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 434):
CBC has reported that because of the heavy rainfall that the plane could have hydroplaned when touching town and therefore could not stop, and also and eyewitness reported that the plane touched down about halfway on a 9000ft runway and in rain I would only seem natural that the plane couldn't stop in time.

Not wanting to jump to conclusions, this is the most logical of explanations.
Weather went to hell fast; so fast the crew didn't have time to respond accordingly. The plane simply got away from them.

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 450):
If lightning did indeed strike the aircraft, a poor bond on a component the lightning may have struck could have potentially lead to a fire.

I don't think I've even ever heard of an accident due to lightning. (?) Possible?

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 462):
That's the culprit in runway overruns *far* more often than excessive speed (which is almost impossible in a modern airliner - too much speed and you don't land, you fly!).

The A340 is a "smart" aircraft; it's hard to make it do something it knows it's not supposed to do....it's why I feel this was just a bad situation that unfortunately got out of hand. way too fast for even the on-board computers to respond to.
A landing involves a series of self-contained processes. Descent, contact, control, decelerating...all overlapping each other in the time continuum...with microscopic tolerances....A microburst, massive rain-fall, shifting and violent winds...all coming together at once, and well, we all saw what can happen.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 462):
The question for me is whether this was an automatic landing or not. If it was, that brings up a whole host of issues - and in bad weather, auto-landings are often the *only* landings permissible. But we'll see. It may have been a manual landing, in which case the question is going to be whether the cockpit crew's actions did more to help or hurt the situation.

I wonder too. Did the crew regain control of the aircraft? Or was it on autoland...I feel this might be the key to solving the case.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 464):
It is clearly the great engineers that designed this plane and the great Air France crew that saved the lives of these people today.

Couldn't agree more.
I believe if this had happened 20 years ago, we wouldn't have had the happy ending we had today. Technology, Experience, and ONE HELL OF A JOB ON BEHALF OF THE CABIN CREW! God Bless you folks....what an outstanding job!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 470):
"Experts are saying what happened it's amazing". I don't wanna detract from the wonder, but there are plenty of emergency doors and slides. The plane went into a shallow ravine relatively slowly. The fuse was intact. As long as the fire doesn't spread too fast, it's quite possible to survive.

Sure, but not even a heart-attack, or someone falling on their head, nothing! By the law of numbers, with over 300 people; unfortunately equates into the odds of at least 2 or 3 fatalities-most of the time...but not today.
The devil may have been in the details...but a plane load of guardian angels ultimately won the day!
I am SO impressed with Air France right now. And Airbus. And so should everyone else....

They tangled with Mother Nature, and Won.

And by the way, I am programming CNN out of my "Favorite Channels" on the remote....for being stupid. I don't ask my news provider to be an expert on aviation, but I do demand that they verify details on subjects they know nothing about. The shitty news reporting is the only bad thing to come out of this....
Sure an airplane was lost today, but just think of the knowledge gained with which will be used to train present future crews....a valuable lesson was learned, and no one had to say goodbye.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flybynight
Posted 2005-08-03 06:39:17 and read 44783 times.

A much more pleasant look at the same plane


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josh Akbar

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2005-08-03 06:42:33 and read 44678 times.

When will the Preliminary report be out.
Wonder what actually caused this.
thats the 1st A340 written off I guess.
Any official statements.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jonathan L
Posted 2005-08-03 06:49:53 and read 44434 times.

A survivor has no nice words for the crew:

Quote:
Gwen Dunlop, a Toronto resident who was returning from a summer vacation in France, said she was unimpressed with the way the flight attendants managed the emergency.

"The staff did not seem helpful or prepared," Dunlop said. "At one point, someone blocked an exit to a chute."

What ensued was a mad scramble to get away from a plane that was rapidly becoming engulfed in flames and threatening to explode at any moment, she said.
...

Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20050.../ca_pr_on_na/plane_crash_survivors

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flybynight
Posted 2005-08-03 06:50:54 and read 44392 times.

Nope, there have been other A340's written off. In fact, Air France had one burn up a few years ago.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AC777LR
Posted 2005-08-03 06:52:43 and read 44334 times.

I just drove past it on my way home from the Coldplay concert, its still smoking at 12:00 and crews are still around it.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: NW727251ADV
Posted 2005-08-03 06:55:48 and read 44235 times.

Quoting Dc10guy (Reply 303):
Just heard CNN report 14 injured. If only 14 people where injured and everyone else got out .... Great job Air France Crew !!!!



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 504):
Sorry but that sound so bitter. I can't stop clapping AF's crew members and YYZ ground staff for their job... More than 300 persons re-borned today thanks to that amazing people.

I dont agree. WTF are you two applauding the crew for??? This isn't United Airlines Flight 232. The pilots didnt do anything spectacular. They attempted to land the plane, they did, and for whatever reason they couldnt stop the plane in the space available to them. Its not like they swerved the plane at the last second to avoid hitting a building or object. So what exactly are you thanking the crew for? You'll probably be resenting them in due time if probable cause of the accident is determined to be pilot error for attempting a landing in extreme weather conditions. But thanking the pilots seems very stupid at this time. They didnt do anything that they arent paid to do or anything that isnt expected of them. My two cents.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 390):
Well, the news that everybody onboard was safely evacuated is reassuring - it reflects the professionalism of the crew onboard the stricken plane and the build quality of the A340, which like all modern planes is designed to withstand impact and to offer safety to the occupants in the event of a crash. It all goes to show how safe modern aviation is.

This doesnt make any sense. Read my reply above to the cheerleaders and add to that, the outcome probably would have been very much the same on a DC-10, L-1011, MD-11, 777, A330, or 747. I dont think the "build quality" of the A340 is anything spectacular when compared to most other widebodies. And the A343 isn't exactly modern. Look how many people survived United 232. 186 out of 298 if I am correct. And the DC-10 was hardly "modern" then.

Quoting LorM (Reply 336):
20 years ago today, on August 2, 1985, a Delta Air Lines Lockheed L1011-385-1 crashed while attempting to land at Dallas/Ft. Worth Airport, Texas in a thunderstorm. 134 of the 163 passengers and crew aboard were killed

How many times has this been confirmed??? Read before posting.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: F9Widebody
Posted 2005-08-03 07:01:44 and read 44063 times.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 103):
Why did it take them so long to get the fire out

Sorry Royal, but that is terrible plugging my friend. You don't even have the right reg! Big grin  Wink  box 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AirbusCanada
Posted 2005-08-03 07:13:43 and read 43685 times.

seat guru reports the two class AF 343 has a capacity of 276 passanges.
(240 Econ, 36 bus). Air-France press release said there were the aircraft was carrying 297 passengers and 12 crew members.Something does not make sense here!!!! anyone else noticed that!!!!!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Shonandai
Posted 2005-08-03 07:15:45 and read 43623 times.

Decent article at the Globe and Mail.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...50802.waquaplane0802/BNStory/Front

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: A340Spotter
Posted 2005-08-03 07:21:35 and read 43446 times.

Well some 500 posts into it and time to throw my two cents in...

This is the 3rd A340 written off.

F-GNIA cn 010 written off by fire at CDG under suspicious causes.
4R-ADD cn 036 written off by rebel fire at CMB
F-GLZQ cn 289 written off at YYZ

Jeffrey

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Cltguy
Posted 2005-08-03 07:23:10 and read 43404 times.

OK Lets Review:

#1: This was the 2nd landing attempt for AF538. The first attempt was aborted due to bad weather.
#2: The passengers clapped after the plane initially landed...indicating a somewhat normal landing in the begining.
#3: There are indications that the plane touched down about halfway down the runway instead of at the end.
#4: The plane was weaving down the runway...not going in a str8 line.

Anyone have any good theories yet?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: IDAWA
Posted 2005-08-03 07:38:52 and read 42816 times.

I was at YYZ on Jul 29 and my KL 744 was parked next to an AF 343..I seem to remember it was F-GLZQ but I'm absolutely not sure. May anyone check the registration please?

However, glad to hear that nobody was killed!

I-DAWA.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AA767400
Posted 2005-08-03 07:44:22 and read 42643 times.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 491):
Maybe this will put an end to this stupid tradition. Do we applaud the postman when he successfully gets all the mail in the slot? Do we applaud the janitor when he successfully replaces a light bulb?

Yes, because screwing in a light bulb is just like landing a plane.  Yeah sure

It is a nice tradition, and one that makes people feel happy. Most people like it, and for those like you who do not, well.....I Guess you will have to deal with it every time you fly outside of the United States of America.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: YULQC
Posted 2005-08-03 07:45:06 and read 42613 times.

Quote:
Gwen Dunlop, a Toronto resident who was returning from a summer vacation in France, said she was unimpressed with the way the flight attendants managed the emergency.

"The staff did not seem helpful or prepared," Dunlop said. "At one point, someone blocked an exit to a chute."

What ensued was a mad scramble to get away from a plane that was rapidly becoming engulfed in flames and threatening to explode at any moment, she said.
...

Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out."

Well, if the fire had reached that area, the right thing to do is to block the exit and to tell passengers to go to the nearest suitable one. As for passengers climbing on the seats, the F/A's job is to be at the exit and smooth out things while people get out on the chutes, then to assist those passengers who are trapped or cannot move, then to retrieve the emergency equipement. You cannot control 100% of the cabin and all the paranoia. People want out, F/A's job is to make sure the door remains clear and safe to use. And I gather that is just what the crew did. They made sure people got out of the plane safely. they probably toured the plane after everyone seemed to be out to make sure every single passenger had left. yes they may have looked frightened, yes their expression and voice may have sounded as though they were terrified. But until proven wrong they have done their job perfectly in evacuating the plane. And all my respect to their professionalism. Sometimes I think that people expect to be treated individually in those kind of circumstances and they expect F/As to act as though they crash every week. they should be thankfull the crew was there to open those suitable doors and that they were there to ensure people got out on those chutes...

As a former F/A it got to me seeing people would blame the cabin crew. We are told in classes that we can control panic by staying calm. But the most important thing is to make sure our exit remains safe and the flow of the evacuation good. We have to focus on our exit and when everyone is thought to be out to search the cabin for passengers in need. Yes we shout. We shout to let people know which exits are available and we remind them what to do once they have reached the exit. But we are also human.

I think the crew does indeed deserve kuddos and if I were in YYZ like I read earlier on the thread, I'd send them flowers. Whatever the cause of the accident was, the crew got everyone safe! Thank God!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: MEL
Posted 2005-08-03 07:45:48 and read 42592 times.

Some photos of diversions:

--------------------------

Montreal:





London-Toronto diversion


Budapest-Toronto




Moscow-Toronto diversion


--------------------------

Winnipeg:

Tokyo-Toronto diversion


Vancouver-Toronto diversion


Hong Kong-Toronto diversion


Hong Kong-Toronto diversion

C-GKOL will supposedly overnight in Winnipeg tonight, and leave for Toronto Wednesday morning.

Matt
http://www.contrailsphotography.com/

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA777222
Posted 2005-08-03 07:52:36 and read 42376 times.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 518):
Anyone have any good theories yet?

Honestly?

Just bad weather + poor judgement. However, regarding the poor judgement, you can't really judge ever changing conditions and once you reach the point of no return you make the move that you feel will leave the least damage to the passengers, yourself, and then to the aircraft, airport etc.

A pilot said it well today;

As a pilot you are the first one on the aircraft and the last one off so what's the point of rushing? That, IMO, rules out all the accounts of the pilot landing to get on the ground so they don't have to circle.

Back to my .02

I feel that the pilot felt confident with the approach and with that continued with the landing. After a fairly successful touchdown conditions changed and caused the aircraft to be airborne again. With either reverse thrust or airbreaks already active the pilot feels that trying to put her down again would be safer than trying to gain enough speed to take off again as a slower crash is much better than a fast one.

With that the crew set down halfway down the runway and used what runway it had to stop as best as possible knowing that they were going too fast and attempted to turn off the runway (cause of swerving) but ended up in the ditch.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 513):
I dont agree. WTF are you two applauding the crew for??? This isn't United Airlines Flight 232. The pilots didnt do anything spectacular. They attempted to land the plane, they did, and for whatever reason they couldnt stop the plane in the space available to them. Its not like they swerved the plane at the last second to avoid hitting a building or object. So what exactly are you thanking the crew for? You'll probably be resenting them in due time if probable cause of the accident is determined to be pilot error for attempting a landing in extreme weather conditions. But thanking the pilots seems very stupid at this time. They didnt do anything that they arent paid to do or anything that isnt expected of them. My two cents.

Regardless of who's fault it was, the crew, even if responsible, did what they could to deal with the shit situation dealt to them. I feel that the crew did play a major role in making the landing as safe as possible and amazingly evacuated 300+ people before the aircraft caught fire.

To them I do applaud them as they show that they are not just there to serve you drinks, answer your call button, and ensure that the seat belt sign is on.

Don't be so closed minded.

Matt

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Aa777jr
Posted 2005-08-03 07:59:54 and read 42125 times.

I am so glad no one was killed. Praise God for looking over all of them.

Best Regards to the families.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jakekwon90
Posted 2005-08-03 08:02:12 and read 42063 times.

Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 515):



Quoting AirbusCanada (Reply 515):
seat guru reports the two class AF 343 has a capacity of 276 passanges.
(240 Econ, 36 bus). Air-France press release said there were the aircraft was carrying 297 passengers and 12 crew members.Something does not make sense here!!!! anyone else noticed that!!!!!

Yes, I agree. I visited many websites and looked for the Air France Airbus A340-300 capacity, and I found varied numbers, but none as high as 297. (Something doesn't add up). I looked at Airbus's official website, and found that that Airbus A340-300 has a capacity of 295, but Air France's official Press Release said there were 297 survivors. I am still up two passengers. Interesting?

Here are the links...

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a330a340/a340-300/

Air France's Official Press Release:

Air France flight AF 358, inbound to Toronto from Paris, had an accident while landing at Toronto Pearson Airport. The aircraft, an Airbus A340, carried 297 passengers and 12 crew members. Everyone on board the jet was able to get off the plane. There are no victims. 22 passengers suffering minor injuries are treated at area hospitals.

Air France is doing everything to give assistance to passengers who where on board flight AF 358.

Air France has established a passenger information centre, and a toll-free number is available for family and friends of those who may have been on board flight AF 358 The toll-free number is :
For those calling from France : 0 800 800 812
For those calling from outside : + 33 1 56 93 10 00

For information about our flights, please refer to the "Schedule - Flight status" section of the site.

I could be wrong, I just found what was said interesting and chose to speculate. Anyone know anything about this?

Thanks

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Baw716
Posted 2005-08-03 08:15:54 and read 41536 times.

First,thank God everyone survived.
Second, bravo to the Air France crew for getting everyone out before the fire engulfed the entire aircraft. It would seem they didn't have a lot of time.

As for the accident itself: The cockpit crew (pilot flying=PF) was trying to land in a thunderstorm. The procedure in a thunderstorm, because the probability of shear is very high is a higher than normal speed on the approach (+30-40kts depending upon wind conditions). What is not known is if he overshot the threshold or if he landed too fast and could not stop. This will have to wait until the CVR and FDR are recovered and analyzed. Since the prevailing information seems to indicate that the landing was relatively smooth and under control, my sense is to believe the latter. If he had overshot, he would have gone around again rather to risk a certain overshoot of the runway. With wet runway conditions and a high speed landing, it is entirely possible that he could not get it stopped within the length of the runway and overshot it and put it into the gulch. The impact into the gulch itself would have caused enough rupture of the wing tanks to start the fire. From what I could see of the fuselage, it looked to be pretty much intact prior to the fire consuming it save a break near the tail and forward toward the nose.

Of course, this is all speculation, but for now, we shall be grateful that all survived and the flight crew will be interviewed and we will know within days what really happened on landing.

For now, the knowledge that everyone survived is enough, and a true blessing to be sure.

baw716

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Theredbaron
Posted 2005-08-03 08:18:12 and read 41440 times.

56000 views for this thread Holy cow!

And they erased my post !

Good thing they are all alive.

lets wait for the inquiry, after being in 2 emergency landings I know perfectly the kind of chaos that can be a cabin....kudos for the crew...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Olympicbis
Posted 2005-08-03 08:40:04 and read 40591 times.

Quoting Jonathan L (Reply 508):
A survivor has no nice words for the crew:

This is unbelievable. I read elsewhere she was telling " we were thrown into the rain and into the mud...." What did she expect, to exit the plane and enter the business lounge ? She was even complaining that she lost her shoes ! Instead of just thaniking God and the cabin crew for still being alive...Another example of those typical idiots who always have to criticize just everything without never realizing the good side of it. I suppose the next step with such one is that her lawyer will sue AF for some zillion dollars as compenation for forcing her to walk through rain and mud and losing her shoes !

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: HZ747300
Posted 2005-08-03 08:40:51 and read 40557 times.

Quoting Jakekwon90 (Reply 525):
Yes, I agree. I visited many websites and looked for the Air France Airbus A340-300 capacity, and I found varied numbers, but none as high as 297. (Something doesn't add up). I looked at Airbus's official website, and found that that Airbus A340-300 has a capacity of 295, but Air France's official Press Release said there were 297 survivors. I am still up two passengers. Interesting?

Infants under 2, perhaps? Just guessing...

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AlitaliaMD11
Posted 2005-08-03 08:45:55 and read 40377 times.

Forgive me if this question was asked before and answered, but are all operations bad to normal at YYZ?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ha763
Posted 2005-08-03 09:06:27 and read 39558 times.

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 516):
#3: There are indications that the plane touched down about halfway down the runway instead of at the end.
#4: The plane was weaving down the runway...not going in a str8 line.

Anyone have any good theories yet?

Check out the links to the accident reports I posted in reply 498. If points 3 and 4 turn out to be true, it sounds very close to what happened in PPT to AF072 in Sept. 1993 and HA481 in Dec. 2000. The AF report is in French, but the HA report is in English and has a lot more diagrams than the AF report.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: DCrawley
Posted 2005-08-03 09:20:08 and read 39037 times.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
I dont agree. WTF are you two applauding the crew for??? This isn't United Airlines Flight 232. The pilots didnt do anything spectacular.

It is fine to not agree, so I will do the exact same with this statement. Why was it necessary to use WTF? The word "Why" was sufficient? Were you in such dire need to express how disgruntled you were at people applauding the crew that an expletive was necessary?

"Why" are people applauding the crew? Simple answer: there was NO LOSS OF LIFE. You are correct in saying that this wasn't UA232. Those people we ordinary people put in an extraordinary situation. Captain Haynes is, by all means in my opinion, an extraordinary man whom I have met several times (he umpired several of my little league games). Stuff happens.

You have also stated that the pilots didn't do anything spectacular. Are you sure? Were you on this flight? Have you already done the full NTSB (or whatever Canada's version of the NTSB is) investigation on it and know that it was pilot error? Wait for the facts. Speculation is alright, but talking with authority on a situation you actually know very, very little about means what you are saying is mostly irrelevant.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
They attempted to land the plane, they did, and for whatever reason they couldnt stop the plane in the space available to them. Its not like they swerved the plane at the last second to avoid hitting a building or object.

So you know that there was no chance of mechanical failure or freak accident? Swerving a plane at the last second.. lol.. I'd like to see you do that at 100 knots in an A340..

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
So what exactly are you thanking the crew for?

No one is dead and the circumstance provided an excellent chance for a few lost souls. No need to explain anymore on that. What you just said is highly ignorant in my opinion. How do you think this would have turned out without a well trained crew?

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
You'll probably be resenting them in due time if probable cause of the accident is determined to be pilot error for attempting a landing in extreme weather conditions. But thanking the pilots seems very stupid at this time. They didnt do anything that they arent paid to do or anything that isnt expected of them. My two cents.

That whole paragraph is speculation. You know almost NOTHING about what happened besides there was bad weather and the plane over ran the runway and caught fire. Care to add any other cold, hard facts to that?

I have no respect for posts like this. I didn't even want to have to respond to something so poorly written due to lack of information, but I can't let someone bash 12 people who saved hundreds of lives. Even if anything you said turns out to be true, or remotely close to the truth for that matter, why would you criticize a crew of people who helped save lives?

Don't get me wrong, like I always say,"EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION." I just prefer when they are informed.

My hat goes off to the crew of this AF flight for making it so that hundreds of people could live (a large majority uninjured after the fact) to see another day, no matter the circumstances. Bravo.

-d

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Kykevin54
Posted 2005-08-03 09:20:54 and read 39007 times.

Well put, Matt. I read something the other day that made me rethink a bit about how I conduct myself on this forum and elsewhere. It went something like this...

Arguing over the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

I think all of us could stand to think about that a little more often, me especially.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UN_B732
Posted 2005-08-03 09:29:32 and read 38645 times.

Well, I believe I know what happened. Could the flight have been booked to 297 pax, while in reality, carying fewer passengers?
-Mr. X

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LFutia
Posted 2005-08-03 09:31:34 and read 38551 times.

wow. there's a photo of it already!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lee Thomas

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Widebody
Posted 2005-08-03 09:33:20 and read 38494 times.

Aircraft capacity is quoted in seats - the actual pax numbers include childen sitting on laps - i.e. 2 pax per seat. Same mis-understanding comes up in every crash.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Robcol99
Posted 2005-08-03 09:36:16 and read 38374 times.

I think some news agencies corrected the number of passengers to 197 from 297.

197 makes a lot more sense.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AMSMAN
Posted 2005-08-03 09:52:54 and read 37784 times.

Well done to all the Emergency Services who helped out and well done to the crew also for avoiding a major death toll.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: NumberTwelve
Posted 2005-08-03 10:04:51 and read 37369 times.

Quoting LFutia (Reply 537):
wow. there's a photo of it already!

Is that the "forest" German n-tv was talking about? Have to say that it's a shame from a partner broadcast company of CNN to publish lots of cr*p last night on TV.
Same by the way was with Cruise Ships last days on n-tv when they called MS Europa the German ZDF-"Traumschiff".

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Bluewave 707
Posted 2005-08-03 10:14:21 and read 37029 times.

Thank God all the pax and crew survived! The crew must be commended for getting everyone off the A343 with only injuries. Credit also goes to the YYZ EMS and Fire/Rescue teams.

Saw some footage on CNN a couple of hours ago.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: UA777222
Posted 2005-08-03 10:24:19 and read 36708 times.

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 539):
197 makes a lot more sense.

Passengers were quoted as stating it was a completely full flight... and that few passengers on such a popular route?

Thanks,

Matt

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Jamesbuk
Posted 2005-08-03 10:37:31 and read 36315 times.

i know for sure everyone here is thankful to the AF crew on getting how ever many people off the aircraft and i think they have shown that they are real proffesionals and they are trained well by air france ( so they obviously spend money on training than dirt removal)

this must win the record for longest post this is now 544 long

so once again WELL DONE AIR FRANCE

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Flying Belgian
Posted 2005-08-03 10:43:14 and read 36118 times.

My deepest congratulations for the professionalism of the whole crew.
Being a F/A myself I will give extra congrats to my fellow AF friends who realized an AMAZING job in getting all the 297 PAX out of this trick in less than 120 sec !!  bigthumbsup 
Such a SUCCESSFUL evac can only be done with an extreme coordination and discipline.  bigthumbsup 
Let's hope "lesson givers" in corporate buildings won't try to put the blame on the pilots.

FB.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-08-03 10:56:27 and read 35743 times.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
And the A343 isn't exactly modern.

No? It's not a modern aircraft? Is it a classic then and B757 or B767 are stone age aircraft right? Better get some facts before posting...  Yeah sure


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: JumboJim747
Posted 2005-08-03 11:04:23 and read 35540 times.

Thank GOD everyone is OK.
Terrible news

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: AviationMaster
Posted 2005-08-03 11:16:41 and read 35239 times.

"I think some news agencies corrected the number of passengers to 197 from 297.

197 makes a lot more sense."


Nopes, there actually were 297 people on board. Even AirFrance.com confirms that the passenger number was at 297.

Like others already mentioned, it's awsome to see everyone survive the crash. When I first saw the wreck burning on TV followed by the explosion, I was fearing the worst. A job well done by the AF crew and all emergency teams involved!  Smile

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Milan320
Posted 2005-08-03 11:17:49 and read 35213 times.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 500):
My God, imagine if this happened on 5. That would have been carnage.

For those of us who either don't know or don't live in T.O, could you enligthen us what's at the end of 5?
/Milan320

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TAP1972
Posted 2005-08-03 11:36:26 and read 34808 times.

Congratulations to the AIR FRANCE crew, they did an outstanding job....


CNN was mentioning it was a jumbo jet (not sure if this is a common expression for all planes), and when they were showing the images this morning I could read: "Air Bus 340"..........

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: TGV
Posted 2005-08-03 11:46:55 and read 34581 times.

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 539):
I think some news agencies corrected the number of passengers to 197 from 297.

197 makes a lot more sense.

So the news agencies are wrong (are you surprised?).

If you look above (reply 525) you will see that AF official press release mentions 297 PAX and 12 crew members.

AF A343 have been reconfigurated from the 252 seats initial config to two new configs:one with 272 seats, and one with slightly more (one less row of business class, could be 276/280 ?)

So with the infants, as mentioned in previous posts, the 297 figure is quite possible for a fully booked flight, which was certainly the case at the beginning of August.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2005-08-03 11:50:54 and read 34565 times.

The aircraft invoved is F-GLZQ and was fitted with the new "NEV" configuration : 30J/261Y = 291 PAX.
The flight was full with 297 PAX on board including babies (who don't have seats) and probably some non-rev. staff traveling on jumpseats.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ryanair737
Posted 2005-08-03 12:02:42 and read 34207 times.

Are operations running as normal out of YYZ now? I see that YYZ flights into MAN this morning are a few hours late. Will the accident effect aircraft departing to YYZ later today?

Cheers
Ryanair737

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Vunz
Posted 2005-08-03 12:13:05 and read 33975 times.

Quoting Ryanair737 (Reply 554):
Are operations running as normal out of YYZ now? I see that YYZ flights into MAN this morning are a few hours late. Will the accident effect aircraft departing to YYZ later today?

KLM692 from YYZ to AMS today is delayed over 6 hours, zo operations are not not on time yet.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: BoogyJay
Posted 2005-08-03 12:40:28 and read 33406 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 281):
Pilot and FO were amongst first out.

This morning, french radio EUROPE 1 reported that

"After every passenger got out the plane, and despite the fire having already caught the airframe, the copilot did a round trip in the cabin to ensure noone was left on board"

If this is true, BIG KUDOS to him !!!  thumbsup 

In a side note, I would not be surprised if crew members receive the "Legion d'honneur"  goldmedal   trophy 

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: B707Stu
Posted 2005-08-03 12:41:21 and read 33389 times.

Quoting HBIHLtoEZE (Reply 363):
People surviving a crash are surely not in good condition. They are glad, as we all are that they are, to be alive. It is possible, though, that they are heavily traumatised ...shame on you!

Thank You! It's been very interesting watching reactions. It feels like the press, focused on fatalities and using "Miracle on Flight 358" as the lead story are once again abandoning their responsibilities.

Of course it is wonderful everyone survived. Please now follow the survivors more closely. There are many fractures, which I do not call minor injuries. Also reports of spine problems. Of course AF and the YYZ officials wish to spin this as positive as possible. Fine. But let's follow the real story.

From what I see, either the tower goofed, knowing there were serious storms in the area and/or the pilot goofed by not aborting the landing for apparently a second time. As the glow of happiness that everyone "got out" subsides, there are many questions to answer. There will be many things to learn from this accident which will hopefully prevent something like it from happening again.

Before anyone goes at me, of course I'm delighted everyone survived - but let's refocus on what happened and support the survivors, who, I assure you, will be shortly very angry. It's pretty clear, this was human error that caused this.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: David L
Posted 2005-08-03 12:45:55 and read 33292 times.

Quoting Jonathan L (Reply 508):
A survivor has no nice words for the crew



Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 528):
This is unbelievable. I read elsewhere she was telling " we were thrown into the rain and into the mud...." What did she expect, to exit the plane and enter the business lounge ? She was even complaining that she lost her shoes

Agreed, unless she's had a few similar experiences to compare this one to. I suppose it might just be that people react in different ways and a few react by immediately lashing out at other people.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: CPDC10-30
Posted 2005-08-03 12:54:16 and read 33106 times.

Just posting now as this thread was taking forever to load last night.

Everyone was calling me trying to find out details yesterday as I work at YYZ (or almost at YYZ), but I was away from work for an exam yesterday.

I already wrote a nasty letter to the CBC about their reporting piece on how the aircraft was "over its capacity". Still can't believe that there were no serious injuries.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: ChrisNH
Posted 2005-08-03 13:22:36 and read 32413 times.

I love Toronto and Torontonians (or whatever you call them) as much as the next person, but here's Gwen Dunlop from Toronto recounting the experience for some scribbling scribe:

'One of the hostesses said, 'You can calm down, it's OK,' and yet the plane was on fire and smoke was pouring in," Dunlop said. ''I don't like to criticize, but the staff did not seem helpful or prepared."

She said the pouring rain, lightning, and thunder added to the drama. ''We were just thrown into the weather," Dunlop said.

'did not seem prepared?' What...they left Paris KNOWING that they'd end up in a ditch in Toronto and should have somehow 'prepared' for it?

'just thrown into the weather?' THE TRAVESTY of it all!!!!! How DARE they??? And my SHOES!!! MY SHOES!!!!

Message to Gwen: Shut the F up.

Chris in NH

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: S.p.a.s.
Posted 2005-08-03 14:09:13 and read 31263 times.

Cltguy,

Quote:
1: This was the 2nd landing attempt for AF538. The first attempt was aborted due to bad weather.

Are you sure about this? I downloaded the archived audio files on LiveATC.com and it appears that it was the first and only attempt to land. The first file starts at around 15.30 and the first time you hear AF358 is way to the end from the recording.. No, I have not downloaded a previous block of time, but it seems that it was not the case of approaching, going around and trying a second time.

Just my 0.02 worth in any case.

Cheers

Salz

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Olympus69
Posted 2005-08-03 14:18:55 and read 31027 times.

Some comments on previous posts. It is pointless to quote reply numbers as they keep changing all the time. (Why are so many posts being deleted?)
First, the clapping after touchdown. This was nothing to do with tradition. The passengers had gone through a very stressful approach with a lot of turbulence and lightning flashing, and were probably genuinely relieved that they were now 'safely' on the ground.
It is possible that there was windshear at low level and that the plane actually had a tailwind when it touched down. This would explain the higher than normal ground speed reported, and the touchdown being further down the runway than normal.
Some passengers reported seeing fire outside the plane while it was still traveling along the runway. One cannot rely on passenger comments too much though. One young man that was interviewed said the plane was doing 300mph along the runway!
Many people seem amazed that there were no fatalities. One should bear in mind that this was a relatively low speed accident. For all we know, the plane might have only been moving at 10mph when it dropped into the ravine.
There was talk of electric power being lost. However, there must have been some power as the PA system was working after the plane came to a stop.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: David L
Posted 2005-08-03 14:20:13 and read 30993 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 315):
But, as one of those interviewed said, it may well have stopped the aircraft ploughing across the highway



Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 333):
Wouldn't have happened. If you know the area, or have seen the ariel photos the runway parallels the highway, but supposing it was clear field the aircraft would still have to pull a hard left to be on the 401

Well, if you could be sure that an aircraft the size of an A-340 would always skid/slide along the extended runway centreline, then, yes, you could say that with confidence. Life, however, isn't like that. A large aircraft skidding/sliding in grass and mud could quite easily slew off course - it would only take something on one side to dig in for a fraction of a second to start it swinging.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Henny
Posted 2005-08-03 14:21:01 and read 30972 times.

The picture shows the reverser buckets extended.

A hypothesis would be that biting winds floated the landing of the A340 to 1/3, if not 1/2 way down the runway, whereby the captain had gone through his DH...

... Alas, he touched, switched to MAX Autobrake, full use of MREV on the AT - and it simply aquaplaned straight over the end and into the ditch.

Whatever happened, nasty stuff.

Thank God all survived.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2005-08-03 14:36:10 and read 30628 times.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 390):
Well, the news that everybody onboard was safely evacuated is reassuring - it reflects the professionalism of the crew onboard the stricken plane and the build quality of the A340, which like all modern planes is designed to withstand impact and to offer safety to the occupants in the event of a crash. It all goes to show how safe modern aviation is.

This doesnt make any sense. Read my reply above to the cheerleaders and add to that, the outcome probably would have been very much the same on a DC-10, L-1011, MD-11, 777, A330, or 747. I dont think the "build quality" of the A340 is anything spectacular when compared to most other widebodies. And the A343 isn't exactly modern. Look how many people survived United 232. 186 out of 298 if I am correct. And the DC-10 was hardly "modern" then.

Agreed. While I have no doubt the 340 is well built, similar situations with other widebodies are also quite survivable. The aircraft slid off the runway relatively slowly, then caught fire. It did not break up or withstand significant impact forces. If it had, there would have been more injuries.

Quoting YULQC (Reply 519):
Gwen Dunlop, a Toronto resident who was returning from a summer vacation in France, said she was unimpressed with the way the flight attendants managed the emergency.

"The staff did not seem helpful or prepared," Dunlop said. "At one point, someone blocked an exit to a chute."

What ensued was a mad scramble to get away from a plane that was rapidly becoming engulfed in flames and threatening to explode at any moment, she said.
...

Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out."

As has been said, what did this guy expect. Of course there will be chaos.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 521):
Quoting Cltguy (Reply 518):
Anyone have any good theories yet?

Honestly?

Just bad weather + poor judgement. However, regarding the poor judgement, you can't really judge ever changing conditions and once you reach the point of no return you make the move that you feel will leave the least damage to the passengers, yourself, and then to the aircraft, airport etc.

Agreed. This pilot will forever be judged by his actions today. "Any landing you walk away from" as they say.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 521):
A pilot said it well today;

As a pilot you are the first one on the aircraft and the last one off so what's the point of rushing? That, IMO, rules out all the accounts of the pilot landing to get on the ground so they don't have to circle.

No kidding. Pilots don't rush. They still get paid if the pax are late.

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 521):

I feel that the pilot felt confident with the approach and with that continued with the landing. After a fairly successful touchdown conditions changed and caused the aircraft to be airborne again. With either reverse thrust or airbreaks already active the pilot feels that trying to put her down again would be safer than trying to gain enough speed to take off again as a slower crash is much better than a fast one.

Yepp. Sometimes you just have to deal with a crap situation.


We won't know for months exactly what happened.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Falcon84
Posted 2005-08-03 14:47:09 and read 30333 times.

Quoting Robcol99 (Reply 535):
I think some news agencies corrected the number of passengers to 197 from 297.

197 makes a lot more sense.

Most major news outlest still say 297, not 197.

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 537):
Is that the "forest" German n-tv was talking about? Have to say that it's a shame from a partner broadcast company of CNN to publish lots of cr*p last night on TV.

This the same "crap" station you get your Iraq news from, Number 12?

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Hrhf1
Posted 2005-08-03 14:52:59 and read 30180 times.

Quoting David L (Reply 558):
Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 333):
Wouldn't have happened. If you know the area, or have seen the aerial photos the runway parallels the highway, but supposing it was clear field the aircraft would still have to pull a hard left to be on the 401

Well, if you could be sure that an aircraft the size of an A-340 would always skid/slide along the extended runway centreline, then, yes, you could say that with confidence. Life, however, isn't like that. A large aircraft skidding/sliding in grass and mud could quite easily slew off course - it would only take something on one side to dig in for a fraction of a second to start it swinging.

Indeed it may have. It may also have veered right, cartwheeled forward or landed safely. I've never understood the point of hypothesizing what COULD have happened after the fact. What did happen was dramatic enough for us all to dissect.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Olympicbis
Posted 2005-08-03 15:10:39 and read 29763 times.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 555):
Message to Gwen: Shut the F up.

Hello ChrisNH,
This nice Mrs Gwen is the one I was writing about. I fully agree with your message to that b....h !

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: LH477
Posted 2005-08-03 15:36:19 and read 29112 times.

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 545):

If I ready the map correctly..there is no gulley/ravine at the end of 5L, it ends with Airport Road, a Major street in the GTA with alot traffic and alot of industrial activity.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Usnseallt82
Posted 2005-08-03 15:36:45 and read 29094 times.

Geez...something horrible happens and you get retards on here posting threads about how stupid the crew was. Those of you who want to keep doing this will lose all respect. Another avenue to prove your ignorance. Utterly disappointing.

On a lighter note, God be with the crew and passengers. Cheers!

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Ciaran
Posted 2005-08-03 15:46:16 and read 28845 times.

Could have been worst T/G.

Landing an aircraft in a storm is by all accounts "hair raising" even for the most capable of pilots. The fact if it be true, that the pilot was on his second attempt at landing, would that have added to his stress to "put her down" even after loss of half the 9000ft runway? could the aircraft stop in that distance? Would it not have been a safer decision to go for the alternate with conditions as they were, either way someone will have to take responsibility.

I am reminded of a similar scenario of a landing in the late nineties in Arkansas that had very different outcome, an MD 80 (if I am right) in which both pilot and first officer coming to the end of their "shift" time (a go for the alternate would have put them in the red flight time wise, not to mention a stop over away from home base and a not to happy group of passengers) attempted a landing in a storm, at night in which the inquest later reported that the cause of the accident was a combination of factors in which "pilot fatigue" was responsible. Directly in that the aircraft aquaplaned for a good distance of the runway length before the overrun and disaster (spoilers being deployed to late as they where overlooked on the landing checklist and where not armed.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: IrishMD11
Posted 2005-08-03 16:08:31 and read 28354 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 560):
"The staff did not seem helpful or prepared," Dunlop said. "At one point, someone blocked an exit to a chute."

Maybe she's just a poor stupid c.w? If fire had broken our on one side only of the aircraft( remember BA 737 in Manchester?), that's reason enough for crew to block exits there...Such foolish remarks help very little with any investigation...

What does she want? A high-profile law case with Ed Fagan in the near future?


Gerry.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: Frequentflyer
Posted 2005-08-03 16:11:57 and read 28284 times.

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 530):
Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 511):
So what exactly are you thanking the crew for?

No one is dead and the circumstance provided an excellent chance for a few lost souls. No need to explain anymore on that. What you just said is highly ignorant in my opinion. How do you think this would have turned out without a well trained crew?

Well said DCrawley. I think we should be grateful this went perfectly with all souls saved.

NW7..ADV, think of how many ways the evac could have gone wrong. The FAs sure had to overcome very adverse circumstances. As such, they deserve hearfelt congratulations imho.

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: David L
Posted 2005-08-03 16:22:06 and read 28060 times.

Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 562):
Indeed it may have. It may also have veered right, cartwheeled forward or landed safely. I've never understood the point of hypothesizing what COULD have happened after the fact

All I said was that an "expert" said it may have kept the aircraft off the highway. You said it couldn't happen.

And my original comment was in response to someone suggesting that the ravine may have been the reason the aircraft broke up. I was merely balancing the argument.

[Edited 2005-08-03 16:32:44]

[Edited 2005-08-03 16:37:35]

Topic: RE: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ
Username: VirginFlyer
Posted 2005-08-03 16:24:39 and read 28007 times.

This thread has become very long, so for everyone's sake I am going to archive it.

A follow on thread can be found here: Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ Pt.2 (by VirginFlyer Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Please use it to continue the general discussion on the accident.

In addition there are a number of other threads about aspects of this issue. If your post would fit better in one of those threads, please use them instead. Whichever you choose, please only make your post in one thread:

Cancellations As A Result Of Air France Crash? (by Jmc1975 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Congratulations Air France Crew (by Traveler Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

How Is Immigration Dealt In AF/YYZ Case? (by Venezuela747 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

AF 358, A Crash Or A Simple Accident? (by A5XX Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

An Accident That We Can Learn Hard From! (by Palladium Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

The Airbus A340 Has An Excellent Safety Record... (by CV990 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Air France Loss - Seating Arrangements (by Timmytour Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Have You Ever Seen A Crew In Action? (by FlyGuyClt Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

V/F

[Edited 2005-08-03 16:29:03]


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