According to Colombian financial newspaper Portafolio, in a recent visit to Colombia, Boeing's vice-president of sales, Scott Carson met Avianca's majority shareholder German Efromovich to discuss the modernization of the airline's fleet due to take place in 2006-2008.
Although AV will start receiving 9 Fokkers [F100s] in the next few months [to strengthen domestic operations], it was established that for expanding long haul operations large aircraft will be required, which will be bought from Boeing, and will include the purchase of widebodied 787s.

For the original article (in Spanish) go to http://www.portafolio.com.co/port_se...B-NOTA_INTERIOR_PORTA-2170421.html

Sadly no more specific details. I do imagine, however, that the 787s will not arrive before 2008/9, so it not clear if Avianca will want to receive other aircraft from Boeing before then.

Once the sale is finalized and announced, we will know how big this sale is for Boeing and the B-787 (and which B-787).  

Do we know how many aircraft? Another good win for Boeing!

Exellent news if true. 787s likely wouldn't come before 2010, cause AFAIK, all delivery slots in 2008/09 are already sold.
I'd imagine an order for around 8-10, with most of them 788s for Euro flights, and some 783s for flights to the US.

Hope this is true. Will wait till the official press release from Boeing and AV

Well done to them. This would be a new continent for the Amazing 787.

Great news for AV, if this is true will be AV the first costumer for latinAmerica for the 787?

AGus
SKBO

I hope they get them. I imagine an order for three or four to cover its MAD, MIA, FLL, and JFK routes...

That's great news, however I don't believe when the newspapers talk about plane models, I tend to think its 767's and Portafolio is in a big mistake, but also I may be wrong...
AV757: can you please confirm and tell us if it's the 787 or it's 767.

Thanks

Well, this is excellent (IF IS REALLY TRUE).. AV will benefit tremendously from the 787s.

Great news! Nice to see AV emerge strongly from its bankruptcy woes. I'd like to see their network expand again (can't wait to see that red 787 touch down at LAX).

Quoting Bongo (Reply 8): AV757: can you please confirm and tell us if it's the 787 or it's 767.

Actually, this must be info from the management. Dont thibk AV757 has much info about it.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 7): I hope they get them. I imagine an order for three or four to cover its MAD, MIA, FLL, and JFK routes...

4? They would order at least 6, and for further expansion, even 8 with 4 options.


The article also talks about a LARGE FLEET RENOVATION, then this means a large order for the 737 also. I would expect 73G, 738 and 739ER to replace the MDs and 757s. It could be as many as 26 aircraft.

Quoting Bongo (Reply 8): That's great news, however I don't believe when the newspapers talk about plane models, I tend to think its 767's and Portafolio is in a big mistake, but also I may be wrong... AV757: can you please confirm and tell us if it's the 787 or it's 767. Thanks

Journalists tend to not get Aviation terms (for all Colombian journalists every plane is a Fokker) but I don't think they'd go for 767s for a modernization, they already have some. If they needed 767s I think they'd search for them and add them to the fleet without much noise as they've been doing with the 757s, but I might be wrong as well.

I think this might be true, and if they intend to also replace the 757s with smaller 787s the order could be 10+, if it's only to replace the 767s I think the order could be some 5-10 units.

I always saw 777s for AV's fleet replacement, but the 787 is fine with me as well!

How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

IMHO they should have second hand A330's or 767's most passengers won't notice all they care about the cabin is clean and comfortable.

egmcman

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

If the airlines are profitable and self-sustaining, what is the problem here?

Quoting N328KF (Reply 14): If the airlines are profitable and self-sustaining, what is the problem here?

Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

egmcman

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

Again, if the airline is making enough money to support itself and pay for its own aircraft, what is the problem? This is only helping the economy of that country by allowing the airline to perform better, and it's creating jobs. Are you against job creation in a poor country?

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes? IMHO they should have second hand A330's or 767's most passengers won't notice all they care about the cabin is clean and comfortable. egmcman

First of all: Avianca is a private company, they will have to pay for those planes as everybody else in the world. It will not be the Colombian government making them a nice gift.

Then, from experience of operating several aircrafts over a certain time, I can tell you, the more modern plane is always the cheapest to run. On a new plane the expensive part is "the money". If you need to pay interest for a couple hundred millions of a new fleet, it is for sure more expensive than for a older kind of plane, you got for a good price. But the more you fly it, the less the finances will influence the price of the plane. If you check AV's utilization of it's fleet, you will see, they use them very well, no one is standing around.
If you have a new plane, you got warranty, contracts you pay the maintenance by the hour and a complete support. The financial risk is minimized and the company can easily make a profit. An old worn bird, is the big surprise. You never now what comes next.

I am happy to see Avianca going to modernize it's fleet (which is by the way not that old at all!) with probably 73G, 739 and for sure, the 787's. Maybe we will even see them flying the 777 one day. AV is an excellent company with a good product. Try it once, travel to Colombia and let me know then what you think!

Cheers  
Legacy135

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

Sorry Man, what you start to tell here is not fair at all! You should read a little more a serious newspaper. By the way, the SUN is not the kind of paper I recommend you! Then you would know what's going on in those countries, who is corrupt and who not. Learn somewhat about Colombia before you start to post such stuff in the net!

Just for your information: Avianca is owned for 75% by German Efromowich, a wealthy Brazilian investor, the other 25% are in Colombian hands with Bancafe or similar. This company is privately owned and has nothing to do with the Colombian government. By the way, also the President, Mister Alvaro Uribe is a honorable man, if you ever heard his name before!

And finally, if you think that Mister Efromowich lives in the Jungle, Brazil is one of the ten most important economies in the world. The county is nearly as big as the US. They also host a company called Embraer who is in the meantime number 3 in producing civil aircrafts.

Hope it helps you to understand somewhat about the globe we live on.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

Please be informed before about the countries and repect all nations. The UK is not the best example about it, right?

Cheers

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

World's poorest countries!! Get on a plane and visit South America. You certainly don't have a clue of what you're saying. BTW, get yourself more information and see who owns AV.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

Remarks out of place!!!

****

Back to the topic, this are GREAT NEWS!! Would be great to see the AV's B787s @ MEX!!

If AV is to replace the B767s, then I see 6 firm orders plus 2 to 4 options for a total of 10 in case they're considering expansion. But, if they want to replace B767/B757 fleet and order B737NG's for MIA and FLL to increase flights and reduce seats probably we could see 10 firm plus 5 options. The B73G/738 will look awesome in AV's c/s!

In case of being true rumors for Ocean Air to acquire B763s then consider Ocean Air as another possible B787 operator!!!

Ricardo APM

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 18): And finally, if you think that Mister Efromowich lives in the Jungle, Brazil is one of the ten most important economies in the world. The county is nearly as big as the US. They also host a company called Embraer who is in the meantime number 3 in producing civil aircrafts.

For the record, Brazil has the world's 11th largest economy by total GDP (not per capita). Also, Brazil may be nearly as big as the US in land size, but its total GDP is roughly only a tenth of the US.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 18): Sorry Man, what you start to tell here is not fair at all! You should read a little more a serious newspaper. By the way, the SUN is not the kind of paper I recommend you! Then you would know what's going on in those countries, who is corrupt and who not. Learn somewhat about Colombia before you start to post such stuff in the net! Just for your information: Avianca is owned for 75% by German Efromowich, a wealthy Brazilian investor, the other 25% are in Colombian hands with Bancafe or similar. This company is privately owned and has nothing to do with the Colombian government. By the way, also the President, Mister Alvaro Uribe is a honorable man, if you ever heard his name before!

Colombia isn't well known in the UK and I'm sorry I offended anyone. I reed the Daily Mail a serious paper and Colombia is always in news in the UK for the wrong reasons. Thanks for the info Avianca I wasn't having a go at them specifically. The point I was making there is a massive difference between the wealthy and poor in developing countries.

egmcman

Quoting N328KF (Reply 16): Again, if the airline is making enough money to support itself and pay for its own aircraft, what is the problem? This is only helping the economy of that country by allowing the airline to perform better, and it's creating jobs. Are you against job creation in a poor country?

I agree and no I'm not against job creation.

egmcman

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11): Actually, this must be info from the management. Dont thibk AV757 has much info about it.

Well... It was on the news !! So he may also have some info...in Addition, let him to answer !

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

Colombia is not one of the World's poorest Countries...Better let's say We are a Developing Country...not rich as yours...but far to be as poor as the poorest.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

All I can see in your words is a lack of info about our Country... get informed, visit us...and then you can judge LatinAmerica.

Quoting Bongo (Reply 25): Well... It was on the news !! So he may also have some info...in Addition, let him to answer !

A ver....

He must have the same info we have....

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24): Actually, it would be more like 24 firm plus 6 options.

I was referring only to 787s. If AV orders B787 for B767 I see 6 plus 4 options. If its for B757/767 replacement I see 10 firm plus 5 options.

And if they go 737 for MD80s/F100 replacement I forecast 20 plus 5 to 10 options.

All this based on current numbers of the fleet.

Ricardo APM

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 27): I was referring only to 787s. If AV orders B787 for B767 I see 6 plus 4 options. If its for B757/767 replacement I see 10 firm plus 5 options.

Oh, yes sorry.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 27): And if they go 737 for MD80s/F100 replacement I forecast 20 plus 5 to 10 options.

17 MDs+9Fokkers= 26 aicraft. 24 firm plus 6 options.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24): Actually, it would be more like 24 firm plus 6 options

Dang I like the way you think. Those are some great numbers. Great news if that is true!   

HA!! I guessed this would happen like 2 or 3 months ago, but only in a couple of years or so, it happen in a fraction of the time!!! REALLY nice news for AV!!!!

Cheers,
PPVRA

Can anyone confirm that AV will be orderingthe 787 and how many?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28): 17 MDs+9Fokkers= 26 aicraft. 24 firm plus 6 options

I think your numbers are absolutely possible but also in a kind conservative planning. Colombian economy is developing. It is possible that also the Colombian aviation industry will develop significantly in the near and medium future. If this happens, they will use much more aircraft.
How I come to have this idea? The Synergie group has for sure plans with Avianca. I don't think they just bought it to make it a profitable company (what in fact it is already again) in it's actual size. Avianca has a good product and an excellent know how. The company has many very skillful and motivated people working for them. Bogotá is in it's location on the subcontinent in geographically very good location. It's somewhat "upper end middle position". You can easily draw a kind of star with routes going trough Bogotá to whole South- and Northamerica. The additional spoke to Europe is quickly added and you get a real mainplayer in aviation of Latin America.
If this is going to happen, we might see AV going maybe for 50 B737 and 25 B787 or whatever. I know, it is nothing than speculation but don't you think it might be a possible scenario?
They are just about to start a major expansion at Bogotá's airport, let's hope, that even with the expansion it will be to small again soon  

Hope they will reopen CDG with these new bids.

Please RCS767AV, dont talk of things you dont know......AV757 is a Captain of 767 in Avianca of course he knows this staff....And yes we are the 2 oldest ailine in the world but that doesnt mean that we are rich......In fact we arent even poor or rich we are in the middle....
So please dont talk of things you dont know.....

Plus Avianca is not taking out its Fokker50..in fact they are thinking on use the buy options form the leasor....
And the plans are to mantain the fleet like these as far as I know...hope Captain Eduardo Davalos confirm this .....

I really hope this is true. A quick look at AV's fleet shows their most recent plane being delivered in 1996, a single MD-80. With 2 more MD-80s delivered in 1993. And it just goes downhill from there.

Their widebody fleet (767s) were delivered between April 1989 and January 1992. These are some old airplanes folks. Come buy some new ones from Boeing, Forever New Frontiers.   

Steve

Wow this is GOOOD news!!! hope to see it at JFK

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes? IMHO they should have second hand A330's or 767's most passengers won't notice all they care about the cabin is clean and comfortable. egmcman

Sour Grapes.  

I was told in Colombia that AV had chosen for the B737NG's and B787.

Around 12/15 B737-700's would replace the MD-83's fleet by end 2009/2010
About 10 B787's would replace the B757 & B767 fleet by end 2012.

But it's still far away.... First see and then believe it. You never will know what will happen in the next years. But I really hope the best for Avianca and Colombian aviation.

Would be very very nice to see the future fleet in the new AV colors!!!

MyAviation.net photo: Photo © The Flying Dutchman

MyAviation.net photo: Photo © The Flying Dutchman

MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © The Flying Dutchman

MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © The Flying Dutchman

But I think maybe Eduardo could give us some more inside info. on this.

Saludos and regards
The Flying Dutchman (back in Holanda - it's Summer and it's raining!! )
Willem Alberto

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 22): Colombia isn't well known in the UK and I'm sorry I offended anyone. I reed the Daily Mail a serious paper and Colombia is always in news in the UK for the wrong reasons. Thanks for the info Avianca I wasn't having a go at them specifically. The point I was making there is a massive difference between the wealthy and poor in developing countries. egmcman

Well
good news = no news.
If we took UK only for the news we get we'd be hella afraid of riding the underground when in London ("ooh, there are bombs there at all times!, the newspaper said it!")
Don't be so narrow minded and ignorant, research and then speak.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 35): Plus Avianca is not taking out its Fokker50..in fact they are thinking on use the buy options form the leasor.... And the plans are to mantain the fleet like these as far as I know...hope Captain Eduardo Davalos confirm this

I think they already bought the F-50s but are gonna keep only a few ones to serve Manizales, the other ones seem to be going to the other Airlines in the group, Vipsa, Wayra and OceanAir (don't know how many for each one and if the three of them are going to get some)... but that's what I heard...don't quote me on that.

[Edited 2005-08-05 00:45:49]

[Edited 2005-08-05 00:48:16]

Nice pictures Wimpycol! Thanks for sharing with us what you heard in Colombia about AV going for the 73G as well as the 787. 2012 for the latter does seem a bit too far away. I want them in LON ASAP!  

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26): A ver.... He must have the same info we have....

Don't think so...he has been sharing info...better than you and me or even the news can give... and again... this is a call to AV757 to tell us more about this info...not a call to you that don't know about this...sorry for you.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 43):

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 43): Yes but hes just an employee. IN THIS CASE, he must not have a lot of info.

Usually employees knows a LOT more than a 15 years old kid.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 9): AV will benefit tremendously from the 787s

Quoting N328KF (Reply 16): This is only helping the economy of that country by allowing the airline to perform better, and it's creating jobs. Are you against job creation in a poor country?

Unfortunately, Latin American airlines are notoriously unprofitable save for one or two outliers... I fail to see how buying $200 million aircraft is going to help an airline get into the black. If you are talking about All Nippon Airways (and the like) that have money to flush, then saving a little kerosene is a plus, but airlines like Avianca, Varig, BWIA, Air Jamaica etc. making a $10 million profit is a rare blessing. Fuel really isn't THAT expensive to spend half a billion on a handful fuel efficient planes. If you ask me Avianca would be better off in the second hand market, lease rates are FAR lower and maintenance is readily available.

Well this seems like another victory for Boeing and another stab in the A-330X oops I mean A-350    and it's possibility of actually getting off the drawing board. Kudos to AV for pulling out of BK and getting pack into the market for their fleet modernization. I only hope that DL will be able to follow suit so that way we can all see some B-787's in the Deltaflot livery.   

Regards from BDL,
DeltaGuy767

787s for Avianca? I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's too soon to start speculating especially when the 787 has yet to be launched.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

The ignorance of some people, how can someone compare the economies of Colombia and Ethiopia? Anyway, all have been said already, I just needed to get that out of my system.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 35): And the plans are to mantain the fleet like these as far as I know

Only one or two will remain for the MZL route as 757MDE said.

I am thrilled with these news, but as Saint Thomas said, "Seeing is Believing..."

Quoting Bongo (Reply 42): this is a call to AV757 to tell us more about this info...not a call to you that don't know about this...sorry for you.

Dude the line is long,
I've been waiting for an email reply from him since June.

He must be logging about 100 hours a month. I hope he's doing well though.

Getting to the topic, it will be a good modernization after 2007 or so, but I don't think AV needs more than 3 787's, its a waist to use one for MIA. Too much of a plane for such a short haul.

Slds
JP

I thought the 787 had been officially launched some time ago.

OK great news

I'll be very proud to see the Avianca sticker on the launch of the 787 .

When is the 787 is going to be launch ? Sorry I forgot .

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 13): How can some of world's poorest countries carriers such as Ethiopian A/l and Avianca afford these planes?

I am laughing so hard that I cannot even look up the LMAO icon. If you know anything about the history of aviation in Africa, and were not only interested in what goes on in your side of the world, you would realize that Ethiopian Airlines, the state owned airline from the country that is within the top 10 poorest countries in the world (nothing to deny here) has always operated the most advanced Boeing commercial aircraft, starting from the Boeing 707 and the 720 in the early years to the 727, 737, 757, 767 and in a couple of years, the 787. Ethiopian has many times purchased aircraft directly from Boeing, made to order because it can afford to do so, unlike the second hands you suggested. While airlines in your neck of the woods bled like there was no tomorrow, ET made money, and not only applied those earnings toward fleet modernisation, but also contributed to the country's economy and acted as a tool to keep the country as a player in the world (albeit small by comparison), unlike those other countries your kingdom used and abused not too long ago... do we need to remind you of those? At any rate, I should not go postal on you since you are just the ignorant of the month, and this subject always turns up around here...

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15): Are they countries like these are corrupt. And they are government owned the value of these orders would keep populations above subsistence level.

Corrupt? No country is clean from corruption. And I won't even get into it. And what does corruption have to do with this? Do you think if they were corrupt and financed their acquisitions with corruption money, the rest of the world would just sit by and see them get away with it?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24): Next time, don't be sorry, be INFORMED. God, how could you compare Colombia with Ethiopia? You didn't even know the 2nd oldest airline in the world is a private company....god You people from rich countries are SO ignorant...I see you are from some pathetic town in Essex. Come to Bogota, Medellin, Cali, Barranquilla, Cartagena or Bucaramanga and see how our cities beat your´s ass

For you information I was born in Manchester but have lived in Southend-on-Sea for over twenty years. Southend-on-Sea is town so it can not be compared with the cities you mention. It the world's longest pier and the flight deck seats for 787's are going to be made here. I have learnt my lesson after this whole episode.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 54): I have learnt my lesson after this whole episode.

Don't worry anymore, expressing itself wrong is somewhat that happens quickly and then..... you have seen it already.
I think your apologizes are widely accepted, so no more problem. Go on enjoying the forum, have fun and see you later  

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 22): I reed [sic] the Daily Mail a serious paper

A serious paper?!    It's probably the nastiest, most small-minded, bigoted, and xenophobic paper in Britain.

Back onto much happier subjects... Avianca choosing Boeing is hardly surprising. They have an all-Boeing jet fleet of MD-80s/757s/767s (OK, with Fokker 100s to come) to replace and close ties to the USA. It would have been odd if they had lurched towards Airbus. But still, good for Boeing, good for the 787 and good for Avianca. I'm one of those who very much like their new colour scheme (I recently saw it somewhere but I can't remember where - Miami?) and it should look excellent on the 787.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 2): Another good win for Boeing!

Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3): and some 783s for flights to the US.

I don't think AV will order the 783. As the 787 fleet could be of 10 airplanes, the -3 is out.
By the way, has someone ordered the B787-3?
And if they go 737 for MD80s/F100 replacement I forecast 20 plus 5 to 10 options.[/quote]
So do I. However, I think the ERJ-190 family would be a good option for them, maybe better that the 736, if chosen for the F100 replacement.

Great news for Avianca.

Agur,
Hegan

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 56): Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

In fact you should consider that AV is a Private company and the owners are Brazilian, is like saying that TAM bougth Airubs for aids receved by Brazil, sorry but you're wrong in assumming this... the order for Boeing was not surprising but according with info given by AV757 before on other threads the Boeing choice is more cause the technical superiority on BOG's conditions than a political driven choice.


Gus
SKBO

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 56): Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

Avianca has indeed been, traditionally, a Boeing customer. The company is said to be very happy with the support that they get from the american manufacturer. However, the bias for Boeing does not have to do with politics, as AV is privately owned, with a brasilian oil tycoon, Germán Efromovich at its head.

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 56): And if they go 737 for MD80s/F100 replacement I forecast 20 plus 5 to 10 options. However, I think the ERJ-190 family would be a good option for them, maybe better that the 736, if chosen for the F100 replacement

I would like AV to order Embrarer too. But a good family as the 170/190/195 is, it is probably a bit to small. The advantage of the 73G is that it can be used on both short domestic flights, but also on routes to MIA, MEX, LIM (3/4 hr flights) and if required, to SCL, EZE, JFK, GRU (5/6 hr flights) as Copa does quite successfully.

If in part, 73Gs will replace 757s as well as MD83s, then the order could be for 20 with some options, as you say.


Perhaps later, and on seeing gow the market develops (There should be strong growth IMO), Embraers can replace the F100s, which are expected to be on service for a while, as they have plenty of cycles left in them.

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 46): 787s for Avianca? I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's too soon to start speculating especially when the 787 has yet to be launched.

What are you talking about? The 787 was launched almost a a year and ahalf ago, they have firm orders and have already started to manufacture long lead items for the first aircraft. Engine makers ae starting test on the GEnX and the Trent 1000 by the end of the year and the first plane is going to roll out in 2007.

Please do a little research before posting.

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 55): Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

Why? AV is a private company and has never been government-owned (i think)...

And see ya Manchester whatever guy...

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 51): I have learnt my lesson after this whole episode.

That is the important thing.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 52): I think your apologizes are widely accepted, so no more problem

My thoughts exactly. Apology accepted.

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 54): Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

Sorry Hegan, wrong assumption, AV is favorable to Boeing for the good relationship that they have had, the performance of their a/c and the only experience that they had with Airbus was not good with the A320 from Aces, nothing to do with the aid sent for the "Plan Colombia"..

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 40): Nice pictures Wimpycol! Thanks for sharing with us what you heard in Colombia about AV going for the 73G as well as the 787. 2012 for the latter does seem a bit too far away. I want them in LON ASAP!

Thanks Summa.
AV757 was the first one to told me the inside info on the Boeing deal 3 weeks ago. Airbus..Offered some poor stuff and by the way Avianca is doing almost 50 years business with Boeing. So the Boeing deal is still the best option
I feel the same.... 2010/12 seems to far away but Avianca can't buy new planes (straight from the Boeing/Airbus factory) within 4 years from now. Remember the situation one year ago....they were almost gone. I really hope that they will improve. Their are still things that are very wrong (some service at airports in Colombia or Spain. They must improve this. But I also had some great moments in Colombia last month with Avianca.

YEP....I want them also ASAP back in LHR or CDG. Remember those days when they served BOG-LHR-BOG???...what a nice time it was!!
When AV dropped out from the UK, BA gave us some good happiness until February of this year.

MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © The Flying Dutchman

I had a great flight on AF last month (maybe something for you?? LHR-CDG-BOG?)
View Large View Medium

Photo © The Flying Dutchman

I think my next flight to Colombia will be with AV.... to support this airline and my lovely country!

Regards
Willem Alberto

Quoting Wimpycol (Reply 60): I think my next flight to Colombia will be with AV.... to support this airline and my lovely country!

Alberto, I think this is a good idea. By the way, did you see the prices offered by AV right now between MAD and BOG in "Ejecutiva"? I just got it for 1295 Euros. I think this is a very fair price and the product offered is more than worth it. Sure, IFE is not the greatest but you get lots of space for this long trip and real kind attention as most of the crews are lovely.

Cheers
Legacy135

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 54): Did anyone expected that AV would have bought an Airbus? All the aid given by the USA must be returned, and Mr. Uribe's policy is near to the USA's one.

Why would the US ask for aid back if a private carrier didn't buy Boeing, particularly when the aid doesn't cause any serious friction with any other countries and when the US has a direct interest in seeing the end of the rebels and paramilitary forces who control coca production and the druge trade.

I can't wait to see this reality:

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Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 61): Alberto, I think this is a good idea. By the way, did you see the prices offered by AV right now between MAD and BOG in "Ejecutiva"? I just got it for 1295 Euros. I think this is a very fair price and the product offered is more than worth it. Sure, IFE is not the greatest but you get lots of space for this long trip and real kind attention as most of the crews are lovely. Cheers Legacy135

Yep your totally right!
My trips to Colombia back in the 90's ALWAYS on Avianca... AMS-BOG with stops in FRA or LHR or CDG or MAD even CCS. Fares at that time were the best. But the last 5 years AV haspulled out of most of European country's and fares get ridiculous high.
But since the begining of this year they are finally climbing back.
Yes I saw their fares. And I can get something like this AMS-MAD-BOG-MAD-AMS on Avianca (first leg on KL or IB) for about 1156 euros (included 2 free flights within Colombia (for example BOG-MZL-BOG)
PLease don't forget the AV-airpass... for about 120 euros you can choose 3 national destinations within Colombia. OK AF or (BA in the past) had some great IFS (ptv etc) but they can't gave you that service in Colombia. Yes I miss the most kindly COLOMBIAN crew!!!

I flew last month AF AMS-CDG-BOG and back....

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Photo © The Flying Dutchman

on of the best trips to Colombia.....but then I had to buy 3 national flights it costed me about 300 euros.....so the Colombian airpass would have helped me if I had travelled with AV.

By the way... Europe still have to wait for the new AV colors...
MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © The Flying Dutchman
The first B762's are supposed to receive the new colors from the beginning of 2006.

Saludos
Willem Alberto

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 62): Why would the US ask for aid back if a private carrier didn't buy Boeing, particularly when the aid doesn't cause any serious friction with any other countries and when the US has a direct interest in seeing the end of the rebels and paramilitary forces who control coca production and the drug trade.

This is quite simple to explain: If people live in a country like mine or yours where they have a good job, they can have a good live and don't have to worry about their future it is quite hard to motivate somebody for something like drugs, terrorism or whatever. If you have nothing to loose.... ???
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that all poor people are criminals or whatever. This is for sure not the case. What I want to say, is that in a system with a strong social system, everybody has it's position and you know, if you come in a situation you need help (no job, illness, accident etc) somebody looks after you, you will get stability in the country. This can be proved quite simple by comparing the numbers of crime compared to countries with a good social system. Look at countries like Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany etc. We are not better people than the people living in South America, but we have the great luck to live in a country that backs us up and dreams may become true. We can go to school, study, choose the job etc.
So, to come back to the topic, if the US can sell them the planes, this will make part of making Avianca run more profitable and increase their business. This will result in more jobs and be a positive factor in Colombian economics. If the US really want to fight the drug production in Colombia, they first of all need to help and give a future for all those being in this business and with the rebels. A deal with aircrafts can absolutely be part of it.

Hi!From the article:
"con la intención de ampliar sus frecuencias en rutas largas, por ello se incluirán aviones 787 de cabina ancha. (" intending to open more long haul routes, this is why wide body aircraft as 787 will be included")

Sorry, but after reading the article I still don't get it 100% clear: is this confirmed, so AV will get 787s for sure or this is just negotiation/options?

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 43): Unfortunately, Latin American airlines are notoriously unprofitable save for one or two outliers... I fail to see how buying $200 million aircraft is going to help an airline get into the black

Sure, as USA is the perfect paradise for giant profitable airlines... about your second sense, I kind of wonder the same...

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 56): Avianca has indeed been, traditionally, a Boeing customer.

So was LAN untill the nasty 343!

Nice pictures of AV, congrats Colombia...

Regards )( Arcano

Quoting Arcano (Reply 66): so AV will get 787s for sure or this is just negotiation/options?

Unfortunately no, is not sure...

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 61): Sure, IFE is not the greatest

The IFE on biz is great, the one that sucks is the coach one. The biz system has those PTVs that you unfold from the armrest with a choice of like 8 movies or so.

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 43): Unfortunately, Latin American airlines are notoriously unprofitable save for one or two outliers

Really? TA, LA, CM, AV, JJ, G3, P5...wow super unprofitable, they should follow DL, US, UA and NW.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 68): The IFE on biz is great, the one that sucks is the coach one. The biz system has those PTVs that you unfold from the armrest with a choice of like 8 movies or so.

Is that new? Last flight I did with AV was in April on this 763 wearing the 85años colors, going BOG-JFK. I was sitting in Ejecutiva and there was nothing like this. Most of the music channels were disturbed and the movie on one monitor only, either in Spanish or Spanish.....  
This plane was actually my biggest disappointment with AV so far. The interior was really rotten. No one of the seats was adjustable by the electric system AV normally has in biz. People were tearing at the seats and the footrests all time long. Parts of the cabin covers were loose, the washrooms cleaned but in a physically in a horrible condition.
On the armrests were actually the reminders of foldable IFE monitors, but they just placed covers on, fixed by rivets in a real sloppy way.

I did 3 flights MAD-BOG-MAD in the last 12 month's and the best of the IFE on those flights in Ejecutiva were those small video players you can put on your table. I have been quite happy with that system, nothing against.

I will use AV again in 3 weeks on MAD-BOG-MAD, flying Ejecutiva again. I am very happy that the 85años plane will most probably not show up there   If you like, I can put a post then, letting you know if the new IFE was on or not and how the flight was.

Cheers and kind regards
Legacy135

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 69): I will use AV again in 3 weeks on MAD-BOG-MAD, flying Ejecutiva again. I am very happy that the 85años plane will most probably not show up there If you like, I can put a post then, letting you know if the new IFE was on or not and how the flight was.

a trip report would be great! sadly its too long ago that i was the last time on an europe - colombia avianca flight.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 68): The IFE on biz is great, the one that sucks is the coach one. The biz system has those PTVs that you unfold from the armrest with a choice of like 8 movies or so.

Which BIZ was that? I have taken many times MIA-BOG-MIA and FLL-BOG-FLL in the 757s and I haven't seen anything like that on Biz class.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 69): If you like, I can put a post then, letting you know if the new IFE was on or not and how the flight was.

Yes please.. that would be great.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 71): Which BIZ was that? I have taken many times MIA-BOG-MIA and FLL-BOG-FLL in the 757s and I haven't seen anything like that on Biz class.

I am not sure, but I think my mother mentioned like this Ptv´s on the B762 when she used avianca on BOG-MAD 2 years ago....

regards

Quoting Avianca (Reply 72): I am not sure, but I think my mother mentioned like this Ptv´s on the B762 when she used avianca on BOG-MAD 2 years ago....

Hmm, is this something for the 767s only? I haven't been able to be on AV 767s yet. The one day they scheduled a 767 from MIA for my flight, they changed it for that awful hybrid Icelandair a year ago or so.. That was the worst Business class I have ever had. AV actually apologized and gave me 4000 miles because there were not music nor movies for the entire flight. Food and bar was very good though.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 73): Hmm, is this something for the 767s only? I haven't been able to be on AV 767s yet. The one day they scheduled a 767 from MIA for my flight, they changed it for that awful hybrid Icelandair a year ago or so.. That was the worst Business class I have ever had. AV actually apologized and gave me 4000 miles because there were not music nor movies for the entire flight. Food and bar was very good though.

well I travel 1 and a half ago bog-ccs with a 757 in premium and they had´t PTV, I think as you mentioned just the 767, but the last time I used the premium cabin of the B767 (8 or 9 years ago) they hadnt a realy IFE system...

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 69): Is that new? Last flight I did with AV was in April on this 763 wearing the 85años colors, going BOG-JFK

That plane still has an old Air Canada interior, thats why.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 71): Which BIZ was that? I have taken many times MIA-BOG-MIA and FLL-BOG-FLL in the 757s and I haven't seen anything like that on Biz class.

It is in the summa interior seats which is in some of the 757s (the 3 that stayed along with the A320s in that period) and the 767-200ERs, plus one of the 763, the new livery one (N984AN).

This thread is really interesting. I am very happy to learn that AV is getting 787's in the future and look forward to reading more details about this future order soon in this site. Subject to confirmation, I think that it is in order to congratulate AV and Colombia for being the first 787 customer in Latin America.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 56): The advantage of the 73G is that it can be used on both short domestic flights, but also on routes to MIA, MEX, LIM (3/4 hr flights) and if required, to SCL, EZE, JFK, GRU (5/6 hr flights) as Copa does quite successfully.

I agree that the 73G is a plane that can fly to quite far places but I am not sure if BOG-MEX is a viable proposition. While CM is able to fly PTY-EZE using the -700W, one must remember that both PTY and EZE are at sea level and, on the other hand, both MEX and BOG are at quite high altitudes. Moreover, perhaps cargo is an important part of AV's operations to MEX, so the 737NG might not be the best alternative to replace the current 757 and 767 service that AV offers to MEX. I definitely expect MEX to be one of AV's destinations that receive the 787 (I also wonder as some other a.netters have if all planes will be -800's or if some -300's will also be thrown into the mix). It will be interesting to read what people think about these ideas. That said, if AV does send the 787 to MEX, I expect to be able to fly to BOG in one of them so as to finally experience AV's service on board such a fantastic plane.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 76): I think that it is in order to congratulate AV and Colombia for being the first 787 customer in Latin America.

Thank you, but is not a fact yet. I don't want to be negative, but is a long shot and I just want to celebrate it when is real and confirmed.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 77): Thank you, but is not a fact yet. I don't want to be negative, but is a long shot and I just want to celebrate it when is real and confirmed.

Ditto

A little out of topic, but the week is Bogota´s 467 anniversary!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 79): A little out of topic, but the week is Bogota´s 467 anniversary!

Yes it is, and this will be the first year of Bogota's Carnival..

Congratulations dear Bogota!!

For fleet renewal at Avianca, it has contacted both Airbus and Boeing for its fleet renewal needs in the nearby future, according to company plans this must be defined by December 15 of this year so as to be able to have manufacturing slots for the aircraft to begin implementing this fleet change on late 2008 and in early 2009 for the medium haul range; and the long haul fleet as of late 2010 and early 2011.

Boeing has offered 20 Boeing 737-700 and 10 Boeing 787-8 series aircraft.

Negotiations are still under way with both manufacturers.

Airbus has offered 20 A320's and 10 A350's series aircraft.

AV757

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 77): is not a fact yet. I don't want to be negative, but is a long shot

Hence my opening words, "Subject to confirmation". Anyway, I look forward to reading soon that this possibility has become a reality and that firm orders have been placed.

With respect to the anniversary of Bogotá, my best regards to all inhabitants of the city.

Quoting AV757 (Reply 81): For fleet renewal at Avianca, it has contacted both Airbus and Boeing for its fleet renewal needs in the nearby future, according to company plans this must be defined by December 15 of this year so as to be able to have manufacturing slots for the aircraft to begin implementing this fleet change on late 2008 and in early 2009 for the medium haul range; and the long haul fleet as of late 2010 and early 2011.

Well anyway i hope they cofnrim the renewal plans and wich will be choosen.

On other hands HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOGOTA                           



Gus
SKBO

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 43): Unfortunately, Latin American airlines are notoriously unprofitable save for one or two outliers... I fail to see how buying $200 million aircraft is going to help an airline get into the black. If you are talking about All Nippon Airways (and the like) that have money to flush, then saving a little kerosene is a plus, but airlines like Avianca, Varig, BWIA, Air Jamaica etc. making a $10 million profit is a rare blessing. Fuel really isn't THAT expensive to spend half a billion on a handful fuel efficient planes. If you ask me Avianca would be better off in the second hand market, lease rates are FAR lower and maintenance is readily available.

Well, where should I start? For one, you only mention two true Latin American airlines in your argument. BW and JM are Caribbean airlines, not to be confused with Latin America. Maybe Mr Bush should look into a better geography curriculum for high schools in his No Child Left Behind Act (and before you make ANY comment, I graduated from one of the best, if not the best, private schools if Florida).

Furthermore, have you forgotten about LA, TA, CM, and the now defunct VX (defunct for reasons somewhat external to the company which I am not willing to mention to prevent a flame war between the Colombians).

I, along with many A.net members, would appreciate a little more knowledge on the subject before making such unfounded remarks.

Edit: Airline Code

Stefano

[Edited 2005-08-08 17:53:44]

Oh, and btw, feliz cumplea�os Bogot�!

Stefano   

Whilst we wait for a fleet renewal, the good news comes as a $7.3 million order from Avianca to "..purchase a variety of aviation related equipment and services, including the CDSS Cockpit Door Surveillance Systems (CDSS), In Flight Entertainment systems (IFE), the Electronic Flight Bag/Class I (EFB 1), In-Seat Laptop Computer Power Systems and various cabin refurbishment for Avianca's fleet of Boeing 767, 757 and MD-83 aircraft" from Global ePoint's Global AirWorks Aviation Division.

This is all good, but before we get to excited, the IFE for economy is just replacing the old projection equipment with light LCD screens. No pvts. Still, good news!

Nice! But we want PTVs!!!!!!

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 86): Whilst we wait for a fleet renewal, the good news comes as a $7.3 million order from Avianca to "..purchase a variety of aviation related equipment and services

Well, I think this is Excellent! Is it confirmed?

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 88): Well, I think this is Excellent! Is it confirmed?

It is! Sorry, I forgot to state the source in my earlier message.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050808/85361.html?.v=1

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 89): It is! Sorry, I forgot to state the source in my earlier message. http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050808/85361...?.v=1

Hey, this should have been an entire new thread, these are good news, the aircraft definitely need it.

BTW, Nice title of the article ah?

"Global ePoint's Global AirWorks Aviation Division Awarded $7.3 Million Contract from Leading South American Airline for Aircraft Equipment and Services"

...Leading South American Airline.. almost.. almost...  

Question1:
Is the airline reimbursed in some way after the lease ends for this type of investment or is consider a maintenance cost?

Question2:
Quote from the article: "The System not only improves viewing quality, but by replacing old projection systems and heavy Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) screens, it eliminates 300 pounds of weight per aircraft generating approximately $300,000 of annual fuel savings per aircraft"

Is that so? 300 pounds less per flight reduce costs that much? Man, airlines should reward bulimics and anorexics then...  
No really, are these figures right?


Quote from the article:

"About Avianca Airlines

Founded in 1919, Avianca Airlines headquartered in Bogota, Columbia, was the first commercial airline established in the Americas and the second one in the world. Due to the precision of its technical and operational procedures, Avianca has been consistently awarded the most important international certifications that endorse the quality of its procedures and security standards."

And someone called AV an irresponsible airline on another thread.. ah?? They should read this...

This is indeed very good news. I flew AV MIA-BAQ-MIA back in mid-June on business class and I was very, very impressed with the service. However, even though the flight is only just over two hours long (and I had a good book), the lack of any sort of IFE was just too evident, especially on business class where I expected at least an overhead screen.

Stefano   

Quoting Komododx (Reply 91): the lack of any sort of IFE was just too evident, especially on business class where I expected at least an overhead screen.

Yes, I experienced the same thing FLL-BOG-FLL.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 92): Yes, I experienced the same thing FLL-BOG-FLL.

Ouch! You got the very rare Md-83 in that route.

Quoting Komododx (Reply 91): However, even though the flight is only just over two hours long (and I had a good book), the lack of any sort of IFE was just too evident, especially on business class where I expected at least an overhead screen.

No airline that i know of has screens on the MD-80 (AA, DL, AV, Far Eastern, Lion Air, P5) why were you expecting sometihng else?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 93): No airline that i know of has screens on the MD-80 (AA, DL, AV, Far Eastern, Lion Air, P5) why were you expecting sometihng else?

Yeah but not too many airlines fly MD8Xs int'ls accross the Caribbean. Wouldn't mind having at least some music to listent to, esp on buss. class!

Stefano   

Quoting Komododx (Reply 94): Wouldn't mind having at least some music to listent to, esp on buss. class!

I agree. Make your claim, AV answers and you might get the 4,000 miles they gave me as an apology.