Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2256563/

Topic: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-05 12:19:11 and read 7459 times.

Akbar al-Baker confirms a previous announced mix of 60 Airbus A350-800 and A350-900 planes and 20 Boeing 777-200LR and 777-300ER aircraft will be ordered by September.

In the selection of the a350 over the 7772er, fleet commonality played no role in the selection of because they´ll also order 772LR & 773ER´s.

Timing seems to play a role; Qatar is due to take delivery of the A350s between 2010 and 2015, while the Boeing planes should arrive between 2007 and 2010.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1011680&C=mideast
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1123160893.html

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2005-08-05 12:26:10 and read 7414 times.

And they expect to be able to fill all those 80 widebodies every day? Watch out, EK, the little boy next door is growing up and showing muscles.

What next? Gulf Air ordering 40 B773ER or A346?

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Maersk737
Posted 2005-08-05 14:27:38 and read 7134 times.

I have to agree with you CRJ900  Smile

It's difficult to understand how they will be able to fill all the new planes, the airlines of the Gulf Regions are buying/leasing

Cheers


Peter

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-05 14:37:16 and read 7087 times.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Timing seems to play a role; Qatar is due to take delivery of the A350s between 2010 and 2015, while the Boeing planes should arrive between 2007 and 2010.

I agree that timing plays no role. They need the Boeing's to build their capacity in addition to the fleet they already have and are taking delivery of. Though I miss seeing their A300s at LHR as the A330s take over the role  Smile

The good thing in these reports too is that we seem to have confirmation that it will be 60 A350s and 20 various 777s.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: OHLHD
Posted 2005-08-05 14:54:41 and read 7014 times.

They also need the Boeings for going to the states.

Makes more sense to order 772LR + 773 + 359 over the 772.
I would also rather buy the newest and hottest on the market. Big grin

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: BoogyJay
Posted 2005-08-05 15:23:35 and read 6901 times.

During the Paris Air Show, it was "UP TO 60 Airbus" and "AT LEAST 20 Boeings".

Now, it's not that clear. is it still like that? or is the order = (not <) 60 Airbuses and = (not >) 20 Boeings?

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 1):
And they expect to be able to fill all those 80 widebodies every day?



Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 2):
It's difficult to understand how they will be able to fill all the new planes,

Time will tell.  Smile

Here are some speculations, pick up which one you want:
1/ They won't be able to fill the planes and will bankrupt.
2/ They won't be able to fill the planes and will survive (magic)
3/ They will be able to fill the planes and will bankrupt (funny Big grin)
4/ They will be able to fill the planes and will survive.
5/ They will be able to fill the planes and even be short of capacity, then will bankrupt (funny too Big grin)
6/ They will be able to fill the planes and even be short of capacity, will order more and survive.
7/ ... (add yours)

Mine is no of the aboves, I simply don't know. I just wish them the best.

Cheers Airliners.net !

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Cartoonranger
Posted 2005-08-05 15:28:34 and read 6875 times.

I'm not sure it's a case of the airline going bankrupt. The country funds them to massive amounts. With the second largest gas field (Not Oil!) on earth, that has not reached it's peak output, they have lots of money to play with for quite a long time. And besides, the middle east sheiks use airlines as toys. It might just be a case of giving up when they get bored of it.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: KL808
Posted 2005-08-05 15:56:59 and read 6767 times.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 1):
Gulf Air ordering 40 B773ER or A346?

they wish they could order such a number. Unfortunately GF doesn't have the money to make such an order.

Drew

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-05 16:12:25 and read 6699 times.

Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):
Unfortunately GF doesn't have the money to make such an order

Exactly. Mr James Hogan has recently downplayed the size of any order from GF as given the massive buying by EK, QR & EY they realise they'll be up against quite some competition. Last I heard they were considering an order for 10-15 frames and were quite content to take their time about placing it.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-05 16:21:33 and read 6634 times.

Not pointing any fingers here but why is it so many people on this A.net feel the need to take pot shots at airlines based in the Gulf calling them play things for oil sheikhs and questioning every little thing they do?

The braintrust at both QR and EK are excellent and have proven aviation experience. Sure the petro-dollars don't hurt and there is unquestionably a lot of ambition with regards to growth. That said do you think these companies are honestly just throwing money at new planes and infrastructure and just hoping passengers will show up randomly to fill them? Obviously not.

I also find that most often those bashing QR and EK have never flown much (if ever) with either airline and don't understand what Qatar and Dubai are really all about. Since January I've flown 12 sectors on QR and I can tell you there were not too many empty seats to be seen.

So to those of you posting to bash QR and EK just because you want to brush up on your typing skills and pass on "insider" information from your "close friend" at EK/QR how about a little less skepticism and a little more respect for two very good airlines?

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Trident2e
Posted 2005-08-05 20:34:31 and read 6282 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
The braintrust at both QR and EK are excellent and have proven aviation experience. Sure the petro-dollars don't hurt and there is unquestionably a lot of ambition with regards to growth. That said do you think these companies are honestly just throwing money at new planes and infrastructure and just hoping passengers will show up randomly to fill them? Obviously not.

The head of QR is on record saying that profitability is not a requirement for the airline as the state sees it as an issue of national pride to have a world class airline.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Cartoonranger
Posted 2005-08-05 20:45:00 and read 6181 times.

YOWza,
It's not a bashing at any middle east airline and there is absolutely no doubt that they provide some of the best airlines in the world. But that is exactly the point. They can afford and pride themselves on providing the ultimate service, with the ultimate equipment with masses of aircraft because they have the money to throw at it.

The difference is that practically every other airline on earth has nowhere near the investment that EK/QR are afforded. This cannot be described as bad thing, (unless you are a competing airline) as we the customer benefit from these fantastic aircraft taking us to fantastic locations either in the middle east or beyond.

My point was that they have the luxury of mega dollars and the chances of the finance ever diminishing is very remote. This is not a bashing, it is merely an opinion of based on what the current Boeing/Airbus order books show

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2005-08-05 20:48:31 and read 6146 times.

BoogyJay,


You could add one speculation to your list (the most likely to happen ...)

7 - They won't be able to fill them but they just don't care because they have endless financial backing from their local Government

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Boeingfever777
Posted 2005-08-05 20:50:27 and read 6128 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
So to those of you posting to bash QR and EK just because you want to brush up on your typing skills and pass on "insider" information from your "close friend" at EK/QR how about a little less skepticism and a little more respect for two very good airlines?

 zzz   zzz  ... were in the posts are they bashing these carriers?

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
little less skepticism

Hard for some to imagine (40) A380's (60) A350's and there current fleets being full and having an airport that can hold like some (100) A380's.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Cloud4000
Posted 2005-08-05 20:51:30 and read 6112 times.

I know the Gulf states are rich as hell, but why would they spend millions proping up an airline? It makes no sense.

There's going to be a correction of some kind.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: KennyK
Posted 2005-08-05 21:29:19 and read 5813 times.

I flew Emirates Business class Dubai-Heathrow a couple of years back and was well impressed, the 772 was full, the service excellent and the cabin exceptional.

I see both Emirates and Qatar Airways becoming world airlines like Singapore Airlines, you'll see them everywhere. Don't kid me that Singapore airlines is there just for the population of Singapore.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Incitatus
Posted 2005-08-05 21:35:45 and read 5759 times.

If these guys are willing to buy paper airplanes, why didn't they announce an order for the Sonic cruiser? Big grin

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2005-08-05 21:52:51 and read 5601 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
Not pointing any fingers here but why is it so many people on this A.net feel the need to take pot shots at airlines based in the Gulf calling them play things for oil sheikhs and questioning every little thing they do?

The braintrust at both QR and EK are excellent and have proven aviation experience. Sure the petro-dollars don't hurt and there is unquestionably a lot of ambition with regards to growth. That said do you think these companies are honestly just throwing money at new planes and infrastructure and just hoping passengers will show up randomly to fill them? Obviously not.

You do raise an interesting point. The massive aircraft orders by QR and EK do provoke a variety of responses, simply becuase the orders are for very large airplanes in very significant numbers....as people who know something about airlines, the EK and QR orders are almost too large for us to comprehend. I must be honest, I, on occassion, have asked what does EK really plan to do will all of those A380s? If major carriers like LH and AF have only ordered the A380 in small numbers, and an airline like BA has said that its probably too big for its needs, its almost unbelievable that EK can find a need for more than 50 of the type. Its as if the plans of EK and QR are so enormous, we are not sure if these plans seriously.....and, you are right, we and the entire airline industry as a whole should be taking EK and QR very, very seriously. Both carriers have ambitious growth plans, and so far both have been very successful; both want to be WORLD CARRIERS that will connect cities all over the world via their hubs in the Gulf. Part of the plan is O&D, the Gulf region is growing and Dubai, for example, has every intention of turning itself into a major trade and convention center as well as a premium level resort destination, but the main focus for both airlines are to compete worldwide for longhaul passengers. Think about what SQ has accomplished by developing a good reputation for excellent service and cutting edge aircraft flying via a user-friendly and effecient hub......and then double or triple that...thats what EK and QR have in mind. And, both EK and QR have the money and longterm finances to do it.

That QR is going for the A359 and the 772ER/773LR is not news, but the order is now confirmed. EK is next in line for another major order. Let the games begin.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Kaitak744
Posted 2005-08-06 02:11:25 and read 4396 times.

Well, if u look at it, Qatar Air doesn't have too much of a big fleet.

The future stands...

20 or so A320/19/21 for high frequency middle east routes.
Up to 60 A350 for Europe, Asia, middle east and Africa.
20+ 777s for high density Europe, Asia, and N. America routes.
And 2 A380s for really high density places like LHR.

Doesn't look like too much to me.

On the other hand, Emirates... well, I would like to see them fill their first 10 A380s.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Karan69
Posted 2005-08-06 11:51:22 and read 3110 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 18):
On the other hand, Emirates... well, I would like to see them fill their first 10 A380s.

10 wont be a problem at all, it will be the remaining 33 that would be the problem.

They plan to use the A380s as of now on the Kangaroo route, which they wont have any problem in filling as i heard their services right now go 90% full even in off season.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 18):
20 or so A320/19/21 for high frequency middle east routes.
Up to 60 A350 for Europe, Asia, middle east and Africa.
20+ 777s for high density Europe, Asia, and N. America routes.
And 2 A380s for really high density places like LHR.

That is very well put, and let me add that except for EKs and KUs American service ,there are none other that fly to the Americas.
And since EK has announced 2x daily services to JFK, this shows the potential in the market,

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Udo
Posted 2005-08-06 12:05:00 and read 3073 times.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 13):
Hard for some to imagine (40) A380's (60) A350's and there current fleets being full and having an airport that can hold like some (100) A380's.

Who has 100 A380 on order?

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
If these guys are willing to buy paper airplanes, why didn't they announce an order for the Sonic cruiser?

Because some paper planes are going to be built while others aren't?  bitelip 


Regards
Udo

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Pilotaydin
Posted 2005-08-06 14:04:37 and read 2931 times.

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 5):
They won't be able to fill the planes and will bankrupt

oil rich region and bankrupt don't belong in the same sentence...

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-08 22:02:05 and read 2687 times.

Quoting Trident2e (Reply 10):

The head of QR is on record saying that profitability is not a requirement for the airline as the state sees it as an issue of national pride to have a world class airline.

The thing with Arab culture is that there is this need to try and outshine neighboring countries. Most commonly achieved by showing wealth and opulence. For example in Yemen, perhaps the poorest of the gulf states it is common practice at restaurants that a serving for one person to be enough to feed close to 6 people. The reason for this being that they the ability to throw away food shows how well off I am for eating at restaurant x. It's is really sad but it is true. Keep in mind that Qatar is much richer than Yemen this is basically the same thought process on a different scale. What I will tell you though is that at the end of the day if QR starts to lose a lot of money that in itself will become a source of embarrassment and will result first in all of the QR top brass being put to pasture followed by a fire sale on Oryx Airbus. Might just myself up one or two!  Smile What QR have done that EK have not is really been lateral in their thinking. There are large numbers of Asian workers in the middle east and they have been largely ignored as possible PAX. Obviously EK, QR both serve India and Pakistan well but QR has made some of its routes based on very smart guest worker surveys this is why QR flies to both Kathmandu
and Cebu.

As for EK being able to fill up A380 I believe they can. EK fly DXB-London both LHR and LGW. They have just added another daily slot to LHR. In the 10+ years that I have been flying this particular sector no flight I have ever been on has had any significant number of empty seats. Presumably the A380 will be a means of maximizing the deep potential for EK in the UK.

Now on top of this are the legions of German sunseekers heading off both to the middle east and in particular the Maldives. I lived in Male, (capital of the Maldives) for about 4 years and was good friends with the EK operations head there and he was telling me they had made massive tweaks to accommodate the flow of passengers from Germany. Back then EK used to fly a crazy mixture of routes to serve Male with Colombo and Singapore being in the messy mix somewhere. Crazy routes such as:
DXB->CMB->MLE->DXB
DXB->MLE->DXB
DXB->MLE->SIN->CMB->DXB
All at hours of the day to suit the mainly German market. Very shrewd and just so happens to work. If the runway at MLE can handle an A380 I can really see that being put into use there.

Another possibility is that the A380 will start to fly short hops in the lucrative routes within the GCC. For example DXB->DOH is operated by QR and EK many times a day and is usually in high demand. These short business routes will continue to go strong between all major commercial major cities. So have a little faith.

YOWza
Sorry for the long post, needed to clear my chest.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Airzim
Posted 2005-08-08 23:17:58 and read 2526 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 9):
That said do you think these companies are honestly just throwing money at new planes and infrastructure and just hoping passengers will show up randomly to fill them?

That is exactly their strategy. Akbar even confirmed that they intend on flying to New York even though they know they will lose money just so the Qatari flag is at Kennedy.

Look it's not bashing it's reality. I've sat in Akbar's office in Doha on several occasions in the past, and I've worked personally with Gaith al-Gaith at Emirates and I can assure you marketshare, prestige, and making their local governments achieve their goals, are the most important issues for them.

I'm sure both carriers have every intention on making money in the future. That's not the goal right now. The renaissance in Dubai was predicated on having an airline to bring people there. The government is going to make certain that its interest are best served, which includes a successful airline. However that's achieved.

Take a look back 30 years. Doesn't this look alot like Singapore Airlines?

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-08-08 23:47:26 and read 2465 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 22):
If the runway at MLE can handle an A380 I can really see that being put into use there.

Now that I'd like to see.  crazy 

The single runway is on a spit of reclaimed land with a turning area at the non-terminal end. Which ever way the wind is blowing, that turning area will either be used for landing to take-off. I can't see an A380 turning on it without significant expansion. The terminal ramp area isn't very large either. The biggest plane I saw land there (our resort was very close, so several hours spotting each day!) were A343s and A333s.

When I flew to MLE with EK in March, it was direct from DXB, but the return is via CMB (made for a very long flight home!)

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: Airzim
Posted 2005-08-09 00:09:51 and read 2428 times.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 22):
For example DXB->DOH is operated by QR and EK many times a day and is usually in high demand.

DXB-DOH flights are very often used by people leaving Dubai every 90 days to get a re-entry visa. Often times people don't even get off the plane. Not that lucrative.

Topic: RE: Qatar To Select A359 Over B772ER
Username: YOWza
Posted 2005-08-09 07:02:27 and read 2275 times.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 25):
DXB-DOH flights are very often used by people leaving Dubai every 90 days to get a re-entry visa. Often times people don't even get off the plane. Not that lucrative.

A ticket bought is money made my friend. Particulary if there are a lot of ppl in this situation that need to do this every 90 days! I can honestly say I miss Dubai, mayb'e it's time to head back through for a little visit.

YOWza


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/