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Topic: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Fpofllflyboi
Posted 2005-08-07 02:21:22 and read 6330 times.

Is there a certain life span that a 732 has before it should be scrapped? Is about 25 years cutting it close? Or does it depend on how many hours or cycles flown and the amount of stress placed on the fuselage during flight at certain altitude?

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2005-08-07 02:23:23 and read 6321 times.

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):
When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?

When the airline who operates them decides to retire them.

Patrick

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: A3204eva
Posted 2005-08-07 02:24:35 and read 6316 times.

An aircraft's life span is set to so many landings. After this number has been reached, the operator can then decide whether they want to 'fix' it so more cycles are added to it's life span. If they don't, then off to scrap  Wink

I'm not sure about any other airlines, but Ryanair has planned to get rid of all their 732s by thee end of 2005

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: DLKAPA
Posted 2005-08-07 03:48:30 and read 6229 times.

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):

When a 732 can no longer make money, it will be retired, and for some that won't happen for a good long time.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Tornado82
Posted 2005-08-07 03:54:42 and read 6219 times.

In the case of Delta, not for a lonnng time.  Wink

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: HKGKaiTak
Posted 2005-08-07 04:22:19 and read 6187 times.

Ask Paul Stoddart, he's starting a new airline with a fleet of 732s . . .

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: CORULEZ05
Posted 2005-08-07 05:54:47 and read 6127 times.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 1):
When the airline who operates them decides to retire them.

Aren't there specific regulations or limits on the amount of flight hours a plane can have on its record?

Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

As for the 732 retirement, as long as the airline is keeping up with maintenance and regular check ups, it really shouldn't be a problem. I personally think that once a plane starts to show age, it is time to get it go because it hurts the image of the airline.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: SATX
Posted 2005-08-07 06:01:25 and read 6106 times.

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
I personally think that once a plane starts to show age, it is time to get it go because it hurts the image of the airline.

Exactly how many airlines follow your criteria?

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: DLKAPA
Posted 2005-08-07 06:02:21 and read 6105 times.

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

Lets see, Maintenance or lease fees AND maintenance...

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: INTENSS
Posted 2005-08-07 12:43:45 and read 6016 times.

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):
Is there a certain life span that a 732 has before it should be scrapped? Is about 25 years cutting it close? Or does it depend on how many hours or cycles flown and the amount of stress placed on the fuselage during flight at certain altitude?

Simple answer: When the operator deems it is economically viable to do so.

-Rich

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Andz
Posted 2005-08-07 12:59:46 and read 5995 times.

SAA retired their 732s in June this year, they were in the fleet since the mid 60s (not sure if the same ones) but they were reliable workhorses to the end.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Robert1177
Posted 2005-08-08 06:16:19 and read 5790 times.

This is a stupid question but what do you mean by cycles?????
I would love to know.
R

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Bjones
Posted 2005-08-08 06:39:42 and read 5771 times.

Alaska is getting rid of their 737-200's which are all QCs and replacing them with 737-400 combis over the next couple years(they will be modified 737-400's that are already in their fleet). I think the first 400 comes on line by the end of this year. The downside is these will have a fixed bulkhead instead of the old movable one (oh and no gravel kit). The upside is that they can haul more load and are much cheaper to operate. AS had decided that it has reached the point where the 200 is too expensive to operate and there are better alternatives.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Slashd0t
Posted 2005-08-08 17:37:41 and read 5684 times.

I know WestJet's 732',s should be all gone by 2006 based on economical reasons. With fuels costs as high as they are and the amount they consume plus high maintenance to keep them going, it just doesn't make sense to keep them anymore. On with the 600/700 & 800's Big grin

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: SATL382G
Posted 2005-08-08 17:46:16 and read 5662 times.

Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
but what do you mean by cycles?????

A takeoff, followed by climb to cruise altitude and pressurization, then descent, depressurization, and landing is considered one cycle. Cycles are considered a better measure of usage for short haul aircraft.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Litz
Posted 2005-08-08 18:55:38 and read 5606 times.

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

Well NW and its DC9s are a whole 'nother (and frequently recurring) thread ...

But DL and its 732s are another story - yes they have quite a few old 732 and 733 aircraft, but a LOT of them are on lease ... and they are not renewing those leases when they expire.

This is for two very good monetary reasons : 1) they are LEASED (and that lease is *expensive*) and 2) those older technology engines are gas guzzlers.

Planes they *own* outright, they are keeping.

As someone else pointed out, it's a simple question of maintnance costs vs lease+maintnance costs.

Without that lease, older planes are even today FAR cheaper to operation even with their expensive maintnance and fuel costs ...

It's like paying off your car loan ... you don't go run out and buy a shiny new one ... you drive the paid off vehicle 'til the wheels fall off. All the while enjoying NOT paying that $350/mo to the bank.

As long as a 732/733 can be operated reliably and more cheaply than a newer alternative, any airline with a decent bean counter is gonna keep on doing so.

That's why you see so many DC9s flying for NW : they own 'em all outright, and because they do so, it's cheaper for them to run 'em than buy new planes to replace 'em with.

- litz

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: ATA L1011
Posted 2005-08-09 04:21:11 and read 5485 times.

Well litz the -300's are much more economical than the -200's and are still very effecient fuel wise. Although some of them are maintenace nightmares in DL's fleet!

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Fpofllflyboi
Posted 2005-08-09 15:07:42 and read 5395 times.

Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
This is a stupid question but what do you mean by cycles?????



Quoting SATL382G (Reply 14):
Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
but what do you mean by cycles?????

A takeoff, followed by climb to cruise altitude and pressurization, then descent, depressurization, and landing is considered one cycle. Cycles are considered a better measure of usage for short haul aircraft.

Thank you SATL382G, for responding to Roberts "stupid" question.

Robert, you've been educated!

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Ilgrancapo
Posted 2005-08-09 19:30:41 and read 5316 times.

Quoting A3204eva (Reply 2):
I'm not sure about any other airlines, but Ryanair has planned to get rid of all their 732s by thee end of 2005

Ryanair has retired all it´s 737-200 in june 2005 and has tranferred it to Autodirect for scrapping it.

More about it. New airlines in Indonesia (Batavia Air,Bouraq Indonesia Airlines, Jatayu Airlines, Mandala Airlines, Merpati Nusantara, RPX Airlines, Sriwijaya Air, Xpress Air) are acquiring recently (2003, 2004, 2005) Boeing 737-200 to use it in intercities flights. I believe that with a great maintenance, this aircraft could flight about 15 years?

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Drinkstrolley
Posted 2005-08-17 21:34:23 and read 5172 times.

Where's European Jimmi? He'll tell you all about the Ryanair 732s!!!

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Flydubai
Posted 2005-08-17 22:43:02 and read 5137 times.

It all depends on when it was brought into service. I think that the 732 should have a lifespan of 12 to 16 years, having said that no major airline should still have them in their fleet. All major airlines should update their fleet every ten years.

Hamz..

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Redngold
Posted 2005-08-17 22:53:24 and read 5122 times.

I remember when all the legacies started dumping their -200s. I would have thought that Southwest would be the last carrier to dump them since they are an LCC. Delta ends up being the last -- strangely, having retrieved their -200s from their low-cost subdivision. Who would'a thunk it?


redngold
(who misses USAirways' MetroJet)

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Liedetectors
Posted 2005-08-18 01:09:01 and read 5066 times.

a plane is retired when cost exceeds profits earned when operating the airplane.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Morvious
Posted 2005-08-18 01:15:45 and read 5057 times.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
Ask Paul Stoddart, he's starting a new airline with a fleet of 732s . . .

Just as bad as his F1 team? No chance I am flying it  Smile

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 17):
Thank you SATL382G, for responding to Roberts "stupid" question.

There aren't stupid questions, only stupid answers.
Atleast I did learn something from it!

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: MasseyBrown
Posted 2005-08-18 09:35:24 and read 4974 times.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 21):
Delta ends up being the last -- strangely

DAL does tend to keep aircraft types in their active fleet longer than other airlines do. I'm thinking of CV-880, DC-8, and 727.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2005-08-18 19:23:18 and read 4903 times.

When it gets Economically Difficult to Maintain.An Aircraft out of a Major check is almost as good as it can get.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: PanAm747
Posted 2005-08-18 19:35:57 and read 4883 times.

And don't forget your best chance to regularly fly on a 737-200:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeremy Irish - Cactus Wings
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Cameron Bowerman - Airplanespotters



I just flew these two HNL-ITO and ITO-HNL.

Not the most comfortable planes in the world (both full to the gills and LOADED with baggage and carry-ons!!), but not a single hiccup either way.

Not the quietest, not the prettiest, not most fuel-efficient, but they're built like tanks. And considering that Aloha flies them constantly on very short flights, they HAVE to be tough. I wonder how many Aloha keeps just for spare parts...anyone know?

P.S. - according to http://www.planespotters.com, both planes were delivered in 1985. Twenty years old this year, both of them. And that's just two of many that Aloha has!

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2005-08-18 19:51:08 and read 4857 times.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 3):
When a 732 can no longer make money, it will be retired, and for some that won't happen for a good long time.

I wouldn't want to fly with your safe airline.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: UN_B732
Posted 2005-08-18 19:57:07 and read 4851 times.

i say look at Northwest DC-9s, then we can talk  Wink
Seriously, I think once the 732s have far too many cycles (as FR and WN have already, presumably, put on their 732s) they will be retired.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Litz
Posted 2005-08-18 20:11:25 and read 4837 times.

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 28):
i say look at Northwest DC-9s, then we can talk Wink

I remember reading once in one of the many numerous DC9 threads there's been over the years, that something in the way Douglas made 'em makes them stronger ... something about the seams between sections being an overlapped rivet versus rivets on adjacent frames ...

It made the DC9 (and 10) much less susceptible to fatigue cracks at skin joints ...

- litz

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Afterburner
Posted 2005-08-19 05:10:25 and read 4770 times.

Quoting Ilgrancapo (Reply 18):
More about it. New airlines in Indonesia (Batavia Air,Bouraq Indonesia Airlines, Jatayu Airlines, Mandala Airlines, Merpati Nusantara, RPX Airlines, Sriwijaya Air, Xpress Air) are acquiring recently (2003, 2004, 2005) Boeing 737-200 to use it in intercities flights. I believe that with a great maintenance, this aircraft could flight about 15 years?

Merpati, Mandala, Bouraq are not new airlines. They've existed for decades. It's true that they have been acquiring 732's because they were not allowed to use jet aircraft before (only state-owned Garuda was allowed). RPX only use their aircraft for cargo.

Topic: RE: When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?
Username: Fpofllflyboi
Posted 2005-08-19 15:48:35 and read 4687 times.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 23):
Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 17):
Thank you SATL382G, for responding to Roberts "stupid" question.

There aren't stupid questions, only stupid answers.
Atleast I did learn something from it!

Morvious, perhaps you should have read Roberts first response or the thread starter in its entirety before you replied to mine. You obviously didnt. see below

Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
This is a stupid question but what do you mean by cycles?????
I would love to know.
R


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