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Topic: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-23 15:10:06 and read 13703 times.

I posted a few of these topics last year and with the recent additions to the 777 Order book after the Paris Airshow I thought I would post a few questions as to how Boeing's Order's for the 777 Series will look at going into year end. As of June 15th the Boeing Website listed the following firm orders, which were;

4 x 773ER Air France
5 x 772F Air France
4 x 773ER ANA
6 x 773ER ILFC
2 x 772ER ILFC

1 x 772ER Cancellation for UA

There are still 4* "open" orders to be booked. These consist of Air India 5 x 772LR and 10 x 773ER, Jet Airways 6 x 772LR and 4 x 773ER. The other is Qatar for "up to" 20 with an exact breakdown of Firm and Options to be announced. The other 1 is Biman for 4 772ER.
*TAAG have announced an interest in 2-3 772ER but I've not heard anything for a while so I am treating with caution.

If I assume 10 firm for QR and Boeing can close these deals by year end the 777 Series will have had it's best sales year since 2000 after booking 42 firm in 2004. Now a question or two if I may.

ILFC only order if they have a binding commitment to place the frames and their order announced at Paris was booked that week. That leads me to ask;

Who are the 6 x 773ER and 2 x 772ER most likely for? I rule out Air Sahara for the 2 772ER as they announced October 2005 delivery for their requirement and I doubt ILFC have the slots free to deilver "New Build" within that time frame. Perhaps these are for TAAG? That leaves 6 773ER, any ideas who these are for?

Next question is who will likely order the 777 before year end? As pointed out by a recent posting by DaleCary Etihad almost appear certain to order the 772LR and/or 772F. Emirates are continually spoken of and indeed speak of the 772LR/F in favourable terms, however, they have 9 valuable 773ER Options too, any chance we see them exercise these? Or can they convert those options to the 772LR/F?

Lybian Arab had also expressed an interest in the 777 series. Yet I've heard nothing for quite some time. Despite a thawing in trade links the only order from Lybia has been Buraq's 738s announced early this year.

Other campaigns spoken of include CX and QF though they've been widely discussed in other threads. Those threads and others also cover quite well the Technical merits of the 777 Series and A340 Series. I apologise for not mentioning Airbus but my post is aimed at 777 orders for 2005 only. For those who wish to see accurate year to date sales of all models for both Airbus and Boeing I suggest This thread by Hamlet69

I have also ommitted the most obvious. Air Canada's 777 order and respective cancellation. Why? It wasn't booked firm on Boeing's site thus there is no firm cancellation to book either, even though both were announced. Besides, the topic is very well covered in This thread by Avek00

Anyway, I had a few questions about 777 orders and would appreciate any clarifications, corrections or updates or discussion from anyone who may be able to assist.

Thanks and Regards

PANAM_DC10

[Edited 2005-06-23 15:12:06]

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Bohlman
Posted 2005-06-23 19:03:27 and read 13423 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
The other is Qatar for "up to" 20 with an exact breakdown of Firm and Options to be announced.

I'm pretty sure the Qatar announcement was phrased as "at LEAST 20".

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Bmacleod
Posted 2005-06-23 19:40:56 and read 13343 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
I have also ommitted the most obvious. Air Canada's 777 order and respective cancellation. Why? It wasn't booked firm on Boeing's site thus there is no firm cancellation to book either, even though both were announced.

We'll probably see a firm order by the end of the year assuming AC and ACPA (AC Pilots Association) can come to an agreement and realize the importance of the 777 and the 787 to AC's future.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-24 01:43:18 and read 13060 times.

Quoting Bohlman (Reply 1):
I'm pretty sure the Qatar announcement was phrased as "at LEAST 20".

Thank you for the clarification.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 2):
We'll probably see a firm order by the end of the year assuming AC and ACPA (AC Pilots Association) can come to an agreement and realize the importance of the 777 and the 787 to AC's future.

If this is indeed the case and the QR order is for "at least 20" and all Pending orders were firmed before year end then there is every chance the 777 could sell almost 100 frames, the likes of which we haven't seen since 2000. Has there been any further news from Boeing on any planned Production increase for the 777 series?

Also with the 772F launched are we likely to see any of the major Cargo operators order the model?

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Intothinair
Posted 2005-06-24 02:00:50 and read 13037 times.

My GUESS is that the orders will be close like this by the end of the year:
4X 773ER AF
5X772LRF AF
4X773ER ANA
6X773ER ILFC
2X772ER ILFC
5X772LR AI
15X773ER AI
6X772LR Jet Airways
4X773ER Jet Airways
12X773ER QR firm (+5 extra options)
8X772LR QR firm (+5 extra options)
4X772ER Biman
?X772LR Etihad
?X772LRF Etihad
9X773ER Emirates
?(10)X772LR Emirates
CX??????
QF??????
HOPEFULLY
18X77? AC

I'm sure there will be quite a few more smaller orders this year, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 777 gets over 100 firm orders this year, and let's hope that the AC 777 deal will still go through.

Cheers, Konstantin G.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Fyano773
Posted 2005-06-24 02:49:27 and read 12946 times.

Hopefully, AeroMéxico will be leasing (ILFC) or purchasing more 777s.

Its current 6 767's leases will expire in the next couple of years (3 during 2006 + 3 in 2007)...

So, AM has to place an order this or the coming year in order to lock delivery slots. For sure Ghost77 has more details...

Regards.

Fyano

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-24 03:04:32 and read 12939 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Thread starter):
Next question is who will likely order the 777 before year end? As pointed out by a recent posting by DaleCary Etihad almost appear certain to order the 772LR and/or 772F. Emirates are continually spoken of and indeed speak of the 772LR/F in favourable terms, however, they have 9 valuable 773ER Options too, any chance we see them exercise these? Or can they convert those options to the 772LR/F?

Mmmm, my thread got deleted for apparent possible copyright breaches, even though I acknowledged the source. So, yes Etihad looks very likely but I'm not going to bother posting the article again. Look up www.gulfnews.com and go to the business section.
I expect the EK order will be a mega-order for 772LR/LRF and 773ER, so the 9 773ER options will be exercised.
Let's not forget SQ. They are assessing the 772LR/LRF at the moment and will not be taking any more A345s. I think they could be quite likely to order this year.
Other Gulf carriers may also be interested(GF), as might be MH, but that is my pure speculation.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: FlyAUA
Posted 2005-06-24 03:22:53 and read 12880 times.

Quoting Intothinair (Reply 4):
QF??????

 no 

Qantas Changes Focus Away From 773/A346 (by NA Jun 23 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-06-24 03:51:16 and read 12846 times.

FlyAUA....if Boeing can PROVE to QF that the 777-20LR can fly LHR-SYD with good payload, the certainly will be picking up a bunch............


"At the same time, Boeing is promising even greater performance from its 777-200LR. New endurance/payload records are to be attempted in October by Boeing.

The company also announced at the Paris air show last week that the 2 per cent fuel burn improvement achieved on the 777-300ER had shown up on the 777-200LR, giving the aircraft the grunt required to perform London-Sydney with an economic payload. But Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon isn't quite convinced. "Boeing is going to have to prove to us the capabilities of the 777-200LR," he told The Australian. Up to the challenge, Boeing is planning some spectacular, record-breaking test flights later this year. "

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au.../0,5744,15709638%255E23349,00.html

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Eoinnz
Posted 2005-06-24 04:00:31 and read 12825 times.

Air New Zealand has some 777-200 coming to this year too

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: FlyAUA
Posted 2005-06-24 04:05:14 and read 12815 times.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
FlyAUA....if Boeing can PROVE to QF that the 777-20LR can fly LHR-SYD with good payload, the certainly will be picking up a bunch............

Qatas said they are now steering away from 777s and 340s, so I believe it when they say it themselves. Boeing can say all they want about the aircraft. If Qantas is not in the shopping mood for that type of route, then they won't by any regardless of what me, you, or anybody else on here thinks.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-24 06:20:30 and read 12740 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 6):
I expect the EK order will be a mega-order for 772LR/LRF and 773ER, so the 9 773ER options will be exercised.
Let's not forget SQ

Thanks Dale. If I may ask, what do you define as an EK mega-order? 15 frames in addition to the 9 773ER options being exercised? Also we shouldn't forget that SQ converted 1 outstanding 772 order to a 773ER to take their total to 19 firm for that model. As for GF, Mr Hogan downplayed the size of their order, I assume due to the aggressive plans of EK, EY & QR though I agree they may well be in the market for up to 10 777s. That said, IIRC, he was in Paris last week with a delegation. So we could hear somthing soon.

Quoting Eoinnz (Reply 9):
Air New Zealand has some 777-200 coming to this year too

Thank you Eoinnz. Are you referring to AirNZ's deliveries of the initial order announced last year? Or, is there talk that AirNZ may exercise some Purchase Rights as an add-on order?

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 5):
Hopefully, AeroMéxico will be leasing (ILFC) or purchasing more 777s

Perhaps my assumption that the 2 772ER ordered by ILFC being for TAAG could be wrong and these may well be further frames for AM. It'll be interesting to see Boeing's update at month end to see what Engines the 772ERs have been ordered with.

Thanks for the answers to date but I'm still left asking for clues as to who the 6 773ER ordered by ILFC will be for.

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-06-24 06:47:16 and read 12682 times.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 10):
Qatas said they are now steering away from 777s and 340s, so I believe it when they say it themselves. Boeing can say all they want about the aircraft. If Qantas is not in the shopping mood for that type of route, then they won't by any regardless of what me, you, or anybody else on here thinks.

respectfully disagree

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2181636

""Qantas is currently evaluating the 777 and 787 against the A340 and A350. A decision is probably three to four months off, said Geoff Dixon, chief executive of Qantas.

A person who knows Dixon well and is familiar with how the evaluation is going said Qantas "loves" the 777.

Dixon, in the interview, said Qantas will consider the 777-200LR as part of any possible 777 order, but it wants proof the plane will do what Boeing claims � fly non-stop from London to Sydney with a full load of passengers.

"Our people at this stage are not confident that the plane can meet the specifications that Boeing indicates," Dixon said.""

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pb...?AID=/20050620/NEWS/506200313/1011

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-24 07:01:52 and read 12673 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 11):
Thanks Dale. If I may ask, what do you define as an EK mega-order? 15 frames in addition to the 9 773ER options being exercised? Also we shouldn't forget that SQ converted 1 outstanding 772 order to a 773ER to take their total to 19 firm for that model. As for GF, Mr Hogan downplayed the size of their order, I assume due to the aggressive plans of EK, EY & QR though I agree they may well be in the market for up to 10 777s. That said, IIRC, he was in Paris last week with a delegation. So we could hear somthing soon.

No worries mate. I would term 30+ as a mega order for EK. If they exercise their 9 773ER options and replace their 18 346HGWs orders and 8 345s(2 will never be received by EK) as has been suggested by many news articles of recent times, then 30+ is a definite possibility. I think it could be anywhere from 25 to around 50,in reality. It looks likely the 773ER will be the aircraft of choice in that category and they appear almost certain to order 772LR/LRF as well.
I have suggested on various forums that EK are looking at an eventual fleet of A359/772LR/772LRF/773ER/A380/A380F. I am pretty certain this is now their plan. No pax aircraft under 300 pax and no pax aircraft with a range of less than 7,500nm.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Intothinair
Posted 2005-06-24 13:03:40 and read 11712 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 13):
If they exercise their 9 773ER options and replace their 18 346HGWs orders and 8 345s(2 will never be received by EK) as has been suggested by many news articles of recent times, then 30+ is a definite possibility.

Very good point indeed. It could indeed be possible that EK will cancel their A346HGW order, sell their A345, and use the 9 options for the 773ER+buy a bunch of 772LR. Would be good news for Boeing indeed if this deal would go through. I believe the Boeing 777 can get over 100 orders this year, and let's hope that the AC777/787 deal will still go through!

Cheers, Konstantin G.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-06-24 13:16:32 and read 11664 times.

Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Eoinnz
Posted 2005-06-24 13:18:31 and read 11658 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 11):
Thank you Eoinnz. Are you referring to AirNZ's deliveries of the initial order announced last year? Or, is there talk that AirNZ may exercise some Purchase Rights as an add-on order?

Just referring to last years order. I relized once i posted it, this was about NEW orders this year not new delivers but still a gentle reminder to you all!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-24 14:16:11 and read 11434 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 15):
Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?

Fair point MauriceB. I assumed that the 2 772ER KLM ordered were to be via ILFC and had already been ordered by ILFC and therefore will not be booked as new orders by Boeing on their site. Is this the order you speak of;

http://ilfc.com/press/2005%20KLM%20B777-206.htm

If so, perhaps I have my answer for whom the 2 ILFC 772ERs are destined for if these are new build. Hamlet69 doesn't list it thus my assumption they were previously ordered frames.

Dale Thanks for your opinion.

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: FlyAUA
Posted 2005-06-24 14:49:37 and read 11276 times.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
""Qantas is currently evaluating the 777 and 787 against the A340 and A350. A decision is probably three to four months off, said Geoff Dixon, chief executive of Qantas.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
"Our people at this stage are not confident that the plane can meet the specifications that Boeing indicates," Dixon said.""

Hmmm I am confused now. So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

It's not like Qantas to send out mixed signals like this is it?

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-24 16:49:12 and read 11036 times.

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 18):
Hmmm I am confused now. So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

It's not like Qantas to send out mixed signals like this is it?

Yep, QF are known for changing their minds frequently. They are waiting for more details on the 772LR from Boeing to meet their business case for LHR-SYD all year round non-stop service with a payload suitable to QF. They don't have this problem with the 773ER,obviously, as it won't be used for that purpose(as it can't be).
I believe both quotes are essentially correct and that QF are evaluating the 773ER v 346 and the 787(all versions) v the A350(all versions). The 772LR may just be in the equation also. A timeline for this order of late this year seems correct from latest info I have.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-25 02:03:56 and read 10878 times.

After reading the following link it looks like Air Sahara may well commit to more than the 2 previously announced 772ERs. The report, to me, indicates that we may see an order for New Build 777s though it does mention other models too.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=94647

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: EddieDude
Posted 2005-06-25 03:51:39 and read 10814 times.

I am sure those two ILFC 772ER orders are for AM. AM and ILFC closed their agreement earlier this year and ILFC placed the order at that time. Delivery is scheduled in early 2006. Rumors are that an option for a third 772ER will be firmed and AM will get via ILFC a third 772ER later in 2006.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Atmx2000
Posted 2005-06-25 05:45:49 and read 10769 times.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
I am sure those two ILFC 772ER orders are for AM. AM and ILFC closed their agreement earlier this year and ILFC placed the order at that time. Delivery is scheduled in early 2006. Rumors are that an option for a third 772ER will be firmed and AM will get via ILFC a third 772ER later in 2006

I thought they were for Air Sahara.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-25 06:23:03 and read 10733 times.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
I thought they were for Air Sahara.

The Air Sahara 772ERs see the first delivered in October 2005. To the best of my knowledge no Lessors have "New Build" 772ERs to deliver in that time frame. This would indicate that may be some of RGs recently returned 772s will be provided as an interim measure until S2 place an order either directly or via a Lessor.

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: The777Man
Posted 2005-06-27 18:54:57 and read 10539 times.

The current issue of World Airline Fleets News has this info: "TAAG Angola Airlines has finalised an order with Boeing for 3 777-200ER and 6 737NG. The deal was signed during the Angolan President's visit to the Us" [in May].

I haven't seen anything on Boeing's website and TAAG seems to have some websites run by their GSAs in certain countries but no mentioning of this either. I guess they are waiting for financing or they will firm up the order later ?

Same with the Air Sahara order to lease two 777-200ER; no mention of this on their website on nothing on ILFCs either yet ? Perhaps this is a case of someone jumping the gun; they are still negotiating with the ILFC but no deal yet but the person in the article says it's firm anyway ?

More info ??

The777Man

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-28 00:16:14 and read 10363 times.

EVA are apparently negotiating for 10+ 772LRF according to today's China Times.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-06-28 00:39:21 and read 10329 times.

There is four remaining pax B747-400s remaining to be delivered to PR from a 1996 order. However, it just doesn't seem that PR wants to take them.

Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?  Wink

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-28 08:30:37 and read 10152 times.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Definitely not. How inappropriate!!!

RPT-Taiwan's EVA looks to buy 10 Boeing 777 freighters
Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:38 AM ET
(Repeats to wider audience)
TAIPEI, June 28 (Reuters) - Taiwan's EVA Airways Corp. (2618.TW: Quote, Profile, Research) , the island's second-largest carrier, is looking to purchase 10 Boeing Co. (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) 777-200LR freighters, which will enter service by 2009, a company executive said on Tuesday.

Just confirmation that EVA is looking at 10 772LRFs.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-28 14:52:11 and read 10035 times.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 24):
I guess they are waiting for financing or they will firm up the order later ?

Hi The777Man was wondering whether you'd appear on this thread  Wink With regards to TAAG it may well be that the Ex-Im Bank is behing the financing for this deal in which case no order will be placed until the Bank finalises all the paperwork. Refer to how WJs 736s or ETs 787s appear as a good example of the time lag between announcement and firm order being placed when the Ex-Im is involved in the deal.

I'm a bit confused too on Air Sahara. I referred to your homepage and thought that the 2 RG 777s being returned to ILFC would be for S2 as it met with the October 05 delivery mentioned. However, RG may well keep them (last I heard) in which case it could well be ILFCs Paris order is for S2 though with a later delivery schedule than that announced? Just my thoughts though. See the link I posted above as it does appear S2 will Order or Lease a similar number of 777s to that of 9W from the way they're talking.

Any opinion as to whom the 6 773ER ILFC ordered are for too? Your opinion would be appreciated.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 27):
Just confirmation that EVA is looking at 10 772LRFs.

Thanks Dale. The question here is, what happens to the 3 772LR on order? Is this in addition to the 10 772Fs that EVA intend to purchase or will the PAX versions be converted to F model and we see 7 new orders?

Regards

P.S. I think QFA001 was on the wrong thread!!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: The777Man
Posted 2005-06-28 19:11:41 and read 9931 times.

Hi PANAM_DC10!

As for the 777s for Air Sahara (S2), it makes a lot of sense when you are saying that they 777-200ERs ordered at the Paris Air Show are for Air Sahara but that they got the year wrong. Perhaps they will be delivered in Oct06 ? Perhaps things will be more clear when ILFC updates their pressreleases webpage.

Very true about TAAG Angola's 777 order. We will just have to wait and see. I still think Boeing would have issued a press release.

As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess.

It's not clear yet about the 777-200LR but it looks like they will keep them on order since there was no mentioning that they will convert 3 -200LRs into -200Fs.

Thanks for checking my webpage and asking for my input.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-06-29 00:50:02 and read 9815 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 28):
Thanks Dale. The question here is, what happens to the 3 772LR on order? Is this in addition to the 10 772Fs that EVA intend to purchase or will the PAX versions be converted to F model and we see 7 new orders?

Regards

P.S. I think QFA001 was on the wrong thread!!!!

Not certain about the status of the EVA 772LRs. I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread. I'm sure he'll do better next time!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-06-29 13:36:44 and read 9656 times.

Hello T7Man and thanks for your response.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess

Thank you, I'm of the opinion that it is not such a wild guess as you may think. Of the list I can think of KL, EK or AirNZ with EK least likely. Just my opinion. It does appear EVA will retain their 772LR pax versions too at this stage despite the later delivery dates.

Regards

PANAM_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-07-01 05:18:11 and read 9459 times.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
There is four remaining pax B747-400s remaining to be delivered to PR from a 1996 order. However, it just doesn't seem that PR wants to take them.

Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Oops, I think it may be the right thread. I misread it completely and now read it that PR are interested in 777s instead of taking on the last 4 pax 744s they have on order. Maybe this is why the order has lingered on the Boeing books so long.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-07-01 13:25:40 and read 9365 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 32):
Oops, I think it may be the right thread. I misread it completely and now read it that PR are interested in 777s instead of taking on the last 4 pax 744s they have on order. Maybe this is why the order has lingered on the Boeing books so long.

With the benefit of hindsight it could well be that QFA001 was "lobbing a grenade" into the thread so to speak. I was under the impression the PAL 744s were still sitting on Boeing's books due to PAL not being in a strong enough fiscal position to address the cost issues associated with the cancellation of that order.

One final question. With the pick up in 772LR/F orders. Are we likely to see GECAS firm their MoU for 8 772LR initially announced in 2000?

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2005-07-01 13:29:49 and read 9356 times.

Fair point MauriceB. I assumed that the 2 772ER KLM ordered were to be via ILFC and had already been ordered by ILFC and therefore will not be booked as new orders by Boeing on their site. Is this the order you speak of;


also, but they did order 2 777's this year themselfs...

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 31):
Hello T7Man and thanks for your response.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
As for the 777-300ER ordered by ILFC, my guess is KLM (KL); they already have the -200ER and will use these to replace some of their 747-400s. Just a wild guess

Thank you, I'm of the opinion that it is not such a wild guess as you may think. Of the list I can think of KL, EK or AirNZ with EK least likely. Just my opinion. It does appear EVA will retain their 772LR pax versions too at this stage despite the later delivery dates.

KL won't replace theire 747-400's anytime soon... some of them are fairly new and they are by far the most important planes in the fleet, since they are mostly combi's...

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-07-02 06:21:59 and read 9206 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 32):
Oops, I think it may be the right thread.



Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 33):
With the benefit of hindsight it could well be that QFA001 was "lobbing a grenade" into the thread so to speak.

Glad to see that you had your thinking caps on, chaps.  Wink

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 33):
Are we likely to see GECAS firm their MoU for 8 772LR initially announced in 2000?

This is Conco's favourite LoI.  Wink FWIW, I've never heard anything about it. If it is true, then surely the LoI would have expired by now, anyway?

BTW, there is a similar thread going on in the Orders Forum. It seems clearly possible that by end-05 (or not long afterwards) the B777 order tally could be >800 frames.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-07-02 12:50:23 and read 9112 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 34):
also, but they did order 2 777's this year themselfs..

I was not aware of that. I thought they had 6 direct orders from Boeing, the last 2 booked on December 20 2004 and 8 coming via ILFC (Including the 2 which the link provided mentioned) that should bring their total commitment to 14 772ER. Am I correct in the totals?

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Hamlet69
Posted 2005-07-03 06:15:51 and read 8993 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 15):
Why does nobody mentioned the 2 777's for KLM orderd in may?

Probably because these have not been confirmed as new orders by Boeing as of yet. To my knowledge, these aircraft are leases from ILFC, which topped their last remaining open -200ER deliveries (not at home though, so I may be mistaken on that). Either that, or you've hit upon who the 2 recently ordered -200ER's are for. . .

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 18):
So they made that statement on the 21st, and then the other statement (yesterday) that they are moving away from it, and that the A350/B787 replacement is more imminent now.

The A340/777 will be ordered, it is simply a matter of QF moving their A350/787 decision forward to coincide with the former. I.E.= larger order than previously expected.

Quoting QFA001 (Reply 26):
Oops, was this the right thread to mention that?

Sure. . . I'm sure your simply, what's the word, "lost"?  Wink

Quoting The777Man (Reply 29):
Very true about TAAG Angola's 777 order. We will just have to wait and see. I still think Boeing would have issued a press release.

If the only thing holding up this order was final confirmation by Ex-Im, I would place money on Boeing issuing a press release before now. Unfortunately, as with Biman's order, I believe this still has some issues to be resolved, namely how the airline is to pay for the aircraft.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 30):
I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread.

And I'll buy you and QFA001 a beer that says he knew exactly what thread he was on. The only surprise I have is the fact that he didn't mention that, apparently, with LAN's recent A318/319 order, the remaining A340's have been dropped. . .

Regards,

Hamlet69

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-07-03 08:36:27 and read 8952 times.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 37):
The A340/777 will be ordered, it is simply a matter of QF moving their A350/787 decision forward to coincide with the former. I.E.= larger order than previously expected.

Absolutely correct and I believe the FI recent article mentioned something like 60 frames(20-odd 777 and 40-odd 787 would be my guess). I'm prepared to say QF won't order the 346, so it will be a 777 and either 350/787 order.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 37):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 30):
I'm sure QFA001 was on the wrong thread.

And I'll buy you and QFA001 a beer that says he knew exactly what thread he was on. The only surprise I have is the fact that he didn't mention that, apparently, with LAN's recent A318/319 order, the remaining A340's have been dropped. . .

Yes, I really stuffed that one up!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-07-15 03:32:44 and read 8683 times.

Boeing booked 5 Unidentified 777s on their order site today. We won't know which model until August update of July orders though it would be interesting to know whether this is an add-on order from an existing operator or a new operator. Most order tenders appear well known, any guesses as to whom they could be for?

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Alitalia744
Posted 2005-07-15 03:46:01 and read 8649 times.

FYI - not necessarily ordered yet, but Alitalia is going to order an additional 4 aircraft!

You'll see it within the next few months.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: 9V-SVC
Posted 2005-07-15 04:54:22 and read 8581 times.

Slightly off topic here

I noticed some AZ's 777 are EI- registered , are they leased ? If so, how many are leased ?

Thanks.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Alitalia744
Posted 2005-07-15 05:00:42 and read 8578 times.

Quoting 9V-SVC (Reply 41):
Slightly off topic here

I noticed some AZ's 777 are EI- registered , are they leased ? If so, how many are leased ?

Thanks.

Six were bought outright from Boeing. Four are leased from GECAS (and EI- reg'd).

I'm trying to get clarity on where the additional four are coming. I've heard 2 are being bought directly and 2 are coming via GECAS.

Total AZ 777 fleet will be 14 by the end of 2008.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Vegasplanes
Posted 2005-07-15 08:46:09 and read 8468 times.

Just a wild guess, might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA with the reason being they need the extra capacity for the ORD-DEL route.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Aussieindc
Posted 2005-07-15 09:16:40 and read 8448 times.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 43):
Just a wild guess, might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA with the reason being they need the extra capacity for the ORD-DEL route.

Even with the 772ER, would it have the range capability to operate ORD-DEL nonstop? Seems an awful long way.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-07-15 09:41:39 and read 8432 times.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 43):
might the 2 772ER's for ILFC go to AA

No, I feel the 2 ILFC 772ER are for KLM as covered by MauriceB and Hamlet69 in previous replies.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 42):
I'm trying to get clarity on where the additional four are coming. I've heard 2 are being bought directly and 2 are coming via GECAS

That's quite interesting thanks Alitalia744

If this were the case, I assume they would be for 772ERs. If sourced via GECAS do they have any coming off lease soon which will be available for AZ? If not GECAS would need to place an order for the new frames to meet their requirements.

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Aussie747
Posted 2005-07-15 12:00:29 and read 8351 times.

I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order, however for privacy reasons I am unable to disclose anything further on the order in addition to when the announcement will be made public which could be made as far out as 18 August.The source is an immediate family member who does a hands on role with regards to the QF fleet. For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Believe you me I do not make such grandiose statements, without careful thought.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: NYC777
Posted 2005-07-15 14:54:09 and read 8256 times.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order, however for privacy reasons I am unable to disclose anything further on the order in addition to when the announcement will be made public which could be made as far out as 18 August.The source is an immediate family member who does a hands on role with regards to the QF fleet. For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Believe you me I do not make such grandiose statements, without careful thought.

Ok stop teasing..is it the 772LR/773ER/787 combo or just 772LR and 787?

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Alitalia744
Posted 2005-07-15 15:59:01 and read 8186 times.

Quoting PANAM_DC10 (Reply 45):
That's quite interesting thanks Alitalia744

If this were the case, I assume they would be for 772ERs. If sourced via GECAS do they have any coming off lease soon which will be available for AZ? If not GECAS would need to place an order for the new frames to meet their requirements.

Regards

The aircraft will be new build -243ERs. AZ currently does not need an aircraft with greater range than their current -200ERs. While they do have some interest in the 77W, currently only two or three routes could potentially sustain the aircraft being MXP/FCO to JFK/NRT. I do wonder however whether Buenos Aires or Sao Paolo could sustain it as the flights have been averaging over an 85% load factor year round lately (or so I've heard).

I'll create a post about AZ's fleet plans separately.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-07-15 16:37:55 and read 8127 times.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Only 1 new Boeing member Aussie747?
The QF RFP is for 777/787 v 340/350. I believe the 777/787 combo is heavily favoured and you have basically told us it will be at least one of these.
Something appears to have changed as this order was not due for announcement in Q4 2005. Maybe, QF have snapped up some early delivery positions, such as AC's 773ER slots next year or QR's 2008 787 slots.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: The777Man
Posted 2005-07-15 17:07:38 and read 8078 times.

Seems to be very good news regarding Qantas..Looking forward to something more official.

As far as the UFO for 5 777s; my guess is that Biman Bangladesh finally is close to get financing and that's why Boeing booked the order but is UFO. Other possibilities is that this is the first part of Jet Airways or Qatar Airways 777 orders.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Aussieindc
Posted 2005-07-15 17:08:44 and read 8062 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 49):
Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

That is going to be very interesting if they are to purchase any combination of 777/787's given their move away from Boeing when they ordered the A330's.

Give me a 777 any day.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: BoeingBus
Posted 2005-07-15 17:12:14 and read 8049 times.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 50):
UFO for 5 777s

I wouldn't be surprised if this is AC's afterall. The pilot issues will be resolved one way or another... it's matter of time and AC needed to lock in those slots so they did as a UFO.

it's all speculation on my part or wishful thinking... lol.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: NYC777
Posted 2005-07-15 17:17:52 and read 8043 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 49):
Only 1 new Boeing member Aussie747?
The QF RFP is for 777/787 v 340/350. I believe the 777/787 combo is heavily favoured and you have basically told us it will be at least one of these.
Something appears to have changed as this order was not due for announcement in Q4 2005. Maybe, QF have snapped up some early delivery positions, such as AC's 773ER slots next year or QR's 2008 787 slots.

I think you're spot on. I think that QF got a great sales pitch when Beoing was in Australia with te 772LR and that probably sealed it for them. Given that QF also statedthat they wanted a 767 replacement, this bodes well for Boeing. Sounds like the A350 is still not doing well in it's current form and forget the A340, mightas well put a bullet in that line.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: 11Bravo
Posted 2005-07-15 19:14:53 and read 7945 times.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order,...

This is great news of Boeing and QF if it works out. This thread should get pretty lively when our European freinds wake up in a few hours.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: NYC777
Posted 2005-07-16 01:09:07 and read 7781 times.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
I can confirm a decision has been made with regards to the QF Widebody order, however for privacy reasons I am unable to disclose anything further on the order in addition to when the announcement will be made public which could be made as far out as 18 August.The source is an immediate family member who does a hands on role with regards to the QF fleet. For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Believe you me I do not make such grandiose statements, without careful thought.

WEll looks like the rumors for the 777/787 for QF are getting stronger.

http://www.vpmag.com/yssy/viewtopic.php?t=12889

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: QANTAS077
Posted 2005-07-16 02:47:20 and read 7707 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 53):
I think that QF got a great sales pitch when Beoing was in Australia with te 772LR and that probably sealed it for them.

the pitch hasn't been made yet, the plane hasn't even been to Australia and is not due here til tomorrow...heard positive about a 777 order about 3 weeks ago, that Qantas was leaning heavily towards the 773ER. time will tell as it always does with Qantas.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2005-07-16 03:27:19 and read 7677 times.

Quoting Aussieindc (Reply 44):
Even with the 772ER, would it have the range capability to operate ORD-DEL nonstop? Seems an awful long way.

"American Airlines plans longest nonstop route, Chicago to India
FORT WORTH (AP) � American Airlines plans its longest nonstop flight, from Chicago to Delhi, India, after reaching an agreement with pilots on long-haul routes.

American said Tuesday it would begin service between O'Hare International Airport and Delhi on Nov. 15, pending government approval. The route is nearly 7,500 miles. American plans to use 236-seat Boeing 777 aircraft for the trip."

rest of article at..

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2005-07-12-aa-india_x.htm?csp=34

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-07-16 06:56:44 and read 7587 times.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 56):
time will tell as it always does with Qantas.

I don't think even Time can tell what QF does, sometimes!  bigthumbsup 

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: The777Man
Posted 2005-07-16 07:56:35 and read 7556 times.

After thinking more about this, I think Qantas is the customer for these recently ordered 777s.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 56):
the pitch hasn't been made yet,

The pitch probably was made a long time ago or perhaps more recently at the Paris Air Show.

I don't see American ordering any more 777s since they still have 7 more 777s to be delivered. If AA needed more 777s, they would just take delivery of the ones they already have on order. They will take two more early next year before the start ORD-PVG.

The777Man

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: HighFlyer9790
Posted 2005-07-16 16:36:09 and read 7442 times.

So in a list, who has placed the 777LR on firm order?

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PANAM_DC10
Posted 2005-07-17 05:40:32 and read 7308 times.

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 46):
For these reasons I am reluctant however to start a new thread, needless to say QF will see a new Boeing member to their family.

Thank you Aussie747 for your post. Very interesting that you mention the following, QF will see a new Boeing member to their family, to me that indicates a 773ER order with options on the 772LR, if this is indeed the case. Also indicates the potential of a split order with Airbus if the A350 can edge out the 787. Thought only.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 59):
After thinking more about this, I think Qantas is the customer for these recently ordered 777s

Hi T7Man, as you stated in a previous post, Biman came to mind for me too, their order was to be for 4-6 777s though there is no corresponding order for the A330s they mentioned too. So perhaps UFO until the A330s are firmed too. Though I rule them out at this stage.

The more I think about the 5 UFO 777s and the way they've been ordered as such does lead me to believe that with the upsurge in demand for the series a RFP has been brought forward by Boeing being able to offer ACs '06 delivery slots as incentive. As Dale mentions in response to Aussie747s post, something appears to have changed for QF to bring their plans forward, if the post is correct.

If the UFO are for the 772LR then we'll know the customer before the August update of the Boeing site IMO.

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 60):
So in a list, who has placed the 777LR on firm order?

To answer Sir, Firm orders booked on Boeing's site;

EVA - 3 772LR
PIA - 2 772LR
AF - 5 772F

Outstanding LoI announced by customers as Boeing orders usually are announced are as follows for the 772LR & 772F;

AI - 5 772LR + 3 Options
Jet - 6 772LR
EVA - 10 772F
QR - 772LR & 772F Breakdown not known yet as 773ER included in order for "at least" 20

So though the number is 10 firm we should see about 20 more firmed by year end if all goes well with the LoI's.

I'd Just like to thank you all for your responses as I've got quite a bit out of this thread. I didn't expect to see AZ going for more 772ER this year though there appears to be a good chance, I think we found whom the 2 772ERs ILFC ordered are for and as for QFA001s reply #26 that's enough to get one thinking about what PAL are considering with regard to their outstanding 744 order deposit money if they don't the 744s.

Thanks and Regards

PANAM_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-07-18 23:43:38 and read 6905 times.

I guess we can chalk up the TAAG Angola order:

2x772ER (firm) + 1x772ER (option).

The Boeing press release did not provide any information on the powerplant selection. Additionally, not sure if this order was included in the 5 unidentified 777s reported earlier in this thread.

-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Hamlet69
Posted 2005-07-19 02:07:08 and read 6789 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 62):
Additionally, not sure if this order was included in the 5 unidentified 777s reported earlier in this thread.

Unlikely. When Boeing announces an order that was already on the books but listed as "Unidentified", they usually make a statement as such in the order press release. There was no such statement regarding either the 777's or the 737's.

BTW - there was also no such statement regarding today's launch of the 737-900ER. Therefore, who ordered 30 -900's at the end of June?

Regards,

Hamlet69

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-07-19 03:23:59 and read 6738 times.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 63):
When Boeing announces an order that was already on the books but listed as "Unidentified", they usually make a statement as such in the order press release.

Thanks for the clarification Hamlet69. There were a few users on the TAAG order thread that were expressing this opinion, so I thought I would try to voice it here as well.

-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-07-19 13:55:17 and read 6630 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 62):
I guess we can chalk up the TAAG Angola order:

2x772ER (firm) + 1x772ER (option).

The Boeing press release did not provide any information on the powerplant selection. Additionally, not sure if this order was included in the 5 unidentified 777s reported earlier in this thread

Thank you N60659 if you go back to my first post in this thread it was the potential order I treated with the most caution. Nice to see it official. I would also second the opinion of Hamlet69 and treat this as a new order and not part of the 5 Unidentified 777s listed last week.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 63):
BTW - there was also no such statement regarding today's launch of the 737-900ER. Therefore, who ordered 30 -900's at the end of June?

OT I know. We've discussed this elsewhere though if it's not Lion Air my longshot guess would be TUI. Though it could all be in the wording. Now back on Topic  Smile

Boeing have now booked 25 firm 777 Series orders as follows:

4 x 773ER Air France
5 x 772F Air France
4 x 773ER ANA
6 x 773ER ILFC
2 x 772ER ILFC
5 x 777 Unidentified - Model not known, yet.

1 x 772ER Cancellation for UA

Pending orders, announced yet to be firmed are as follows:

AI - 5 x 772LR + 3 options, 10 x 773ER + 5 options
BI - 4 x 772ER
BG - 10 x 772F
9W - 6 x 772LR, 4 x 773ER + total of 10 options for either model
QR - A mix of "at least" 20 772LR, 772F & 773ER
TAAG - 2 x 772ER + 1 option

Total of 87* new commitments and potential 86 firm if all LoI's are finalised. There has been much more discussion over the past weeks and in this thread about the 772LR as it goes about it's world tour. I noticed that when it was in HK the speculation intensified about CX and the 773ER or even the 772LR. Talk of QF and the 772LR is rampant though I don't believe they'll order it, rather, if they go with the 777, they'll order 773ER & option 772LR until it's EIS proves it can meet their mission requirements.

Anyway, who'd like to say who'll be next to order. I feel EK & EY are waiting for Dubai Airshow. Though with Boeing's 2nd QTR earnings due July 27th I feel they'll have another order to announce in the next week or two and if ever there was a time for them to land QF, this is it. So that's my call, any others?

Regards

*I seem to be out by 1 frame compared to someone else whom monitors this far more accurately than I do. Correct me if wrong.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-07-19 16:58:40 and read 6507 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 65):
BG - 10 x 772F

Should this be BR instead of BG?

-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-07-19 18:16:10 and read 6463 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 65):

BI - 4 x 772ER
BG - 10 x 772F

Now that I think about it, I think (and please feel free to correct me) this should read:

BG - 4 x 772ER
BR - 10 x 772F


-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Hamlet69
Posted 2005-07-19 18:44:58 and read 6432 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 65):
I seem to be out by 1 frame compared to someone else whom monitors this far more accurately than I do. Correct me if wrong.

87 is what I have as well.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 65):
Anyway, who'd like to say who'll be next to order.

Well, for starters, we can list the campaigns that we know of in 2005:

Qantas
Cathay
Emirates
Etihad

Of those, QF is now supposed to announce sometime in August, IIRC. So they could possibly be first. EK will announce at the Dubai show, which is not until November. IMO, Etihad will announce before then, if they haven't already.  Wink And Cathay's timing remains a mystery.

Then there are also the possibilities:

Aer Lingus are looking at a 787/777 combination, Air Sahara will probably be ordering their own aircraft soon, and are said to favor the 777. Both KLM and Alitalia are supposedly looking at the -300ER, and I wouldn't put it past KLM to order the Freighter as well. Libya is interested in a few 777's. Malaysia could make their selection this year, though I expect it will be next. And I would expect China to order some more either this year or next.

As to the very next to announce, my bet is on Etihad.

Regards,

Hamlet69

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: QFA001
Posted 2005-07-19 23:57:05 and read 6295 times.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 68):
Of those, QF is now supposed to announce sometime in August, IIRC.

The birds are chirping that, that's for sure. However, I have deep reservations that QF will announce anything in August. Deep.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-07-20 02:59:00 and read 6231 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 67):
Now that I think about it, I think (and please feel free to correct me) this should read:

N60659, My error in full and I stand corrected sir. It should have read;

BG - 4 x 772ER
BR - 10 x 772F

Apologies for the confusion.

Thanks for your opinion's Hamlet69 and your number of 87 too. My reason for speculating on QF as next is, indeed, entirely that, speculation.  Smile Whom ILFC have ordered for still interests me and as a long shot on the 773ERs I'd go so far as to say perhaps KLM, again. Thought only. I look forward to what EY will go with given that QR & EK appear to be forcing their hand. I'd assume though they'd order more than 5 if they choose the 777.

Regards

PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-07-21 14:10:39 and read 5997 times.

An interesting sidenote to the Cargolux announcement that they will enter into negotiations with Boeing for a minimum of 10 747Adv Freighters today, which may well influence the order outlook for the 772F. Assuming the 747Adv is given the go ahead.

That is, we can rule out a 772F order from CV as the 3 aircraft under evaluation were the 772F, 747AdvF and A380F.

They had spoken previously that they were evaluating the 772F so I assume we can now rule CV out as a possible candidate for this model. We can't rule out the A380 so I assume the A380F would be their next consideration. However, I'll leave that to This A.net post which is already discussing that.

Also, it's Thursday, any chance Boeing will reveal who the 5 Unidentified 777 orders are for today? Most likely we'll have to wait until August though a lot of people would like to find out  Wink Perhaps we'll see TAAGs 2 772ERs booked instead.

Regards

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-07-28 21:08:00 and read 5750 times.

I guess we can put CO for 2 777-224ERs.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050728/dath042.html?.v=15

Could this be why they scaled their 787 order down from 10 to 5?

-N60659

[Edited 2005-07-28 21:09:32]

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-07-29 07:31:23 and read 5544 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 72):
I guess we can put CO for 2 777-224ERs.

I didn't expect to see an order from a U.S. major though it's definately a good indicator of how the market has recovered from the past few years.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 72):
Could this be why they scaled their 787 order down from 10 to 5?

Most definately, though no doubt they'll be in a position to order the other 5, with Boeing providing "backstop" financing I've no doubt that CO will most likely be able to keep the delivery slots for the remaining 787s yet to be firmed.

Regards

PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-04 03:50:50 and read 5369 times.

Well it seems more 772ERs are on the way to KLM and AM. A recent thread has confirmed AM will take another 772ER whilst it appears KLM have begun negotiation to procure 2 more 772ER. More on that in This A.Net thread provided by Klmcedric that most seem to have missed. I have KLM total commitments to the 772ER at 14 and here they are going for the 15th and 16th.

One rumour that actually appears to have merit to it has been covered very well by Dutchjet's excellent thread and that is CO may well be looking for 3 more 772ERs

Also, it's Thursday. Do we finally find out which model the 5 UFO 777s booked last month will be  Smile

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Dalecary
Posted 2005-08-04 04:42:21 and read 5328 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 74):
Also, it's Thursday. Do we finally find out which model the 5 UFO 777s booked last month will be

Almost certainly AF.

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-04 15:09:27 and read 5203 times.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 75):
Almost certainly AF.

Dale, even if they're 773ERs, I may not quite agree with you on that one sir.

Also, QR today are reported to finalise their order for 20 777 series in September along with their A350 order for 60.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-08-04 17:40:54 and read 5107 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 74):
Also, it's Thursday. Do we finally find out which model the 5 UFO 777s booked last month will be

As of Aug 4, after the Boeing orders website has been updated, the 5 UFO 777s remain unchanged.
The site, however, does reflect the 2 772ER's for CO announced last week. This takes the 2005 net orders for the 777 family to 29.

-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-06 11:05:36 and read 4952 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 77):
Boeing orders website has been updated, the 5 UFO 777s remain unchanged

Indeed, though we now know the model to be the 773ER. This A.net thread has got the discussion going as to who they could be for again  Wink

Also ET have 3 Purchase Rights for 777 series. Any chance that we'll see them take these or will they stay with 767s & 787s?

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-08-18 17:59:07 and read 4679 times.

Well guess what showed up on the Boeing Orders Website this morning:

1 x 777 also classified as a UFO. As far as I can tell, the type is still unknown.

I guess we can continue our fun game of "Guess the carrier" again.  Wink

-N60659

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2005-08-19 11:10:22 and read 4505 times.

Quoting N60659 (Reply 79):
1 x 777 also classified as a UFO. As far as I can tell, the type is still unknown.

I guess we can continue our fun game of "Guess the carrier" again

No need to. It's a 773ER Option conversion for SQ. But that's just my un-sourced opinion  Wink

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: Shenzhen
Posted 2005-08-19 11:24:08 and read 4493 times.

I'll throw one out there for the rumor mill the rip apart. I've heard through the grapevine (not a long vine) that ANA will order upto 50 777-300ERs this year or early next.


Cheers

Topic: RE: Boeing 777 Orders For 2005
Username: N60659
Posted 2005-08-19 16:24:06 and read 4363 times.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 80):
No need to. It's a 773ER Option conversion for SQ. But that's just my un-sourced opinion

So, if true  Wink that would come from the 13 options they had with the 18 firm orders from Dec 2004.

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 81):
I'll throw one out there for the rumor mill the rip apart. I've heard through the grapevine (not a long vine) that ANA will order upto 50 777-300ERs this year or early next.

I guess you are talking about this:
http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/05/06/04/100bus_deal001.cfm

-N60659


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