Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2278126/

Topic: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 20:41:36 and read 6183 times.

I'm new to the forum and i was just wondering,why is it that the DHC8 series of aircraft seems to be so popular with caribbean airlines i.e LIAT,CARIBBEAN STAR as opposed to say the ATR42-72 series.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: DLPMMM
Posted 2005-08-17 20:51:37 and read 6152 times.

The Dash-8 is a STOL (Short Take-Off/Landing) aircraft so it works well with many of the smaller airports in the carribean. It is also quite fuel efficient when compared to RJs. Since the distances are usually relatively short, the slower airspeed is not much of a draw back.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2005-08-17 20:52:32 and read 6153 times.

I'm not an expert on pricing, but it could be that the non-French colonies had a better financial deal when they were in the market for an aircraft that could haul 50+ pax as well as handle the unprepared runways of some of their destinations. I've heard from some people that the DHC-8 series (excluding the Q400) are less expensive than the ATRs (new).

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 1MillionFlyer
Posted 2005-08-17 20:54:49 and read 6140 times.

the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2005-08-17 20:57:38 and read 6130 times.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 3):
the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

Short-field performance is a strength of ATRs as well - just ask Air Tahiti  wink 

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 21:09:25 and read 6097 times.

Thanks for the replies,but the question is still not totally answered.Both the DHC8 and the ATR42-72 have STOL capabilities but with the exception of AIR CARAIBES and AMERICAN EAGLE the ATR's are not that widely used in the caribbean area.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-17 21:10:38 and read 6093 times.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 3):
the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

Hmm, Island Air used to have only five of them and I am not sure if more than two of the airports they serve really require STOL aircraft.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Thread starter):
I'm new to the forum and i was just wondering,why is it that the DHC8 series of aircraft seems to be so popular with caribbean airlines i.e LIAT,CARIBBEAN STAR as opposed to say the ATR42-72 series.

Is it ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Ligas
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Elliott Kefalas



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Wojdylo



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keith Ogden
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joan Martorell



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: MD90fan
Posted 2005-08-17 21:24:59 and read 6058 times.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 4):
Short-field performance is a strength of ATRs as well - just ask Air Tahiti

IIRC doesnt Air Tahiti operate the or one of the longest ATR flights in the world?

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 21:35:09 and read 6044 times.

[quote=Vfw614,reply=6]Is it ?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alan Lebeda



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andreas Barowski



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kazim Alikhan - t.dot photography



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Fritz



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Isa Ali



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dinesh Maharajh



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Lopez


YES IT IS!!! And keep in mind EXECUTIVE AIRLINES i.e AMERICAN EAGLE is also considering the DHC8-400

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:49:09]

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:53:04]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-17 21:40:09 and read 6016 times.

Let me help you out with this one

EDIT: pics removed

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:57:30]

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 21:51:00 and read 5985 times.

thanks Vfw614.
I'm still trying to get the hang of this.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-17 21:56:31 and read 5993 times.

OK, let's do a headcount:

Carribbean Sun: 8 DHC8-100
Caribbean Star: 3 DHC8-100, 7 DHC8-300
LIAT: 5 DHC8-100, 6 DHC8-300
Air Jamaica: 5 DHC8-100
BWIA: 3 DHC8-300
Tobago Express: 5 DHC8-300

I have left out Dutch Caribbean (no longer existing) and AIRES (Columbian airline - there are quite a few ATR operators in South America...)

Executive: 41 ATR72
Bonairexpress: 2 ATR42
Air Caraibes: 2 ATR42, 3 ATR72
Aerocaribbean: 4 ATR42
Aerogaviota: 4 ATR42

That makes 6:5 airlines and 42:56 airframes.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 22:06:32 and read 5944 times.

Ok Vfw614 i'll admit you got me on that count but the the thing is we here in the caribbean see more of the airlines that fly the dehavilland than we see of those flying atr.With the exception of american eagle all those other atr operators don't really fly to much of the caribbean region.They mainly stick to their department and antillean islands in the case of the french and dutch airlines and cuba is pretty much a region unto itself.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-08-17 22:14:31 and read 5924 times.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 8):
i.e AMERICAN EAGLE is also considering the DHC8-400

No, they are not.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-17 22:15:45 and read 5923 times.

Fair enough  Wink Always depends on one's point of view. The Dashs are certainly spread more even between the operators.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-17 22:25:47 and read 5908 times.

MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Olympus69
Posted 2005-08-18 00:54:23 and read 5828 times.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

Just because they were doing tests LAST year doesn't necessarily mean they are still considering it THIS year.
I would find your assumption more believable if it had said "as late as last week".  Smile

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: HZ747300
Posted 2005-08-18 01:55:26 and read 5779 times.

Here is something to add. In the book, Ask a Pilot, the gentleman who wrote it is, or was, a commercial pilot for American Eagle I believe. Anyways, it was a regional airline and he flew the ATR. One of the stories he tells is that in the summer it was so hot in the ATR that he took off his shirt. He complained that the air conditioning on the ATR is one of the worst designs of mankind and was not near enough air to cool down the plane on a hot midwestern day.

Maybe if the Dash-8 air works better, it might be a more logical choice as it is hot in the Carribbean--but I wouldn't know. I have only been to Panama (which was blazing hot & humid, but the girls were pretty), and I have only flown in a Dash-8 thrice (LGA-Ithaca, Ithaca-LGA, and ISP-PHL)... All were in the winter.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-08-18 02:03:58 and read 5760 times.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

No idea why. It could be that DeHallivand brought it down to show them.

They still aren't getting any Dash-8's. They love their ATR fleet's cargo capabilities.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-18 02:23:19 and read 5742 times.

As for the cargo aspect, the ATR42 probably is somewhat better because the cargo department has the same size, bu need to accommodate 20 pax less. There were issues here in Germany for Eurowings, which used to be europe biggest ATR operator, with the ATR72 because from time time luggage had to be left behind on hub-feeder flights because of the size of the cargo compartment.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2005-08-18 02:30:28 and read 5730 times.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

The same aircraft was in ANU doing test flights for LIAT and CStar. I guess Bombardier was just doing a Caribbean tour of the aircraft. That doesnt mean any airline, whether LIAT, Star or Eagle has any firm interest in the Q400.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-18 02:45:27 and read 5697 times.

Given the nature of the operation of most airlines, I doubt it would make much sense to operate the Q400 unless you really need the extra seats. On those shorts hops, its superior speed is of no advantage.

In addition, with over 31m in length and its rather delicate manoeuvering characteristics, it might be a bit difficult to handle at the smaller airfields.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: LimaFoxTango
Posted 2005-08-18 03:05:44 and read 5677 times.

If LIAT or CStar, for example, were to ever get Q400, they wouldnt be placed on the routes that the 100's and 300's are operating unless maybe they have overbooked a flight or have backed-up luggage. Other than that, the Q400's will be doing routes such as ANU-BGI, ANU-POS, ANU-GEO, ANU-SDQ, ANU-MBJ/KIN etc. As a side note, you would see notice all the flights i've stated starts in ANU. That is because LIAT and CStar are based here in ANU.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2005-08-18 13:15:32 and read 5527 times.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 7):
IIRC doesnt Air Tahiti operate the or one of the longest ATR flights in the world?

I believe it does; however it has little to do with its short-field performance.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2005-08-18 13:19:39 and read 5539 times.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
OK, let's do a headcount:

Carribbean Sun: 8 DHC8-100
Caribbean Star: 3 DHC8-100, 7 DHC8-300
LIAT: 5 DHC8-100, 6 DHC8-300
Air Jamaica: 5 DHC8-100
BWIA: 3 DHC8-300
Tobago Express: 5 DHC8-300

You forgot Bahamasair, with a fleet of (I think) 6 or 7 DHC-8-300s. Still doesn't match the ATR fleet in terms of size, but keep in mind (relatively speaking) that Executive is but one airline, so the ratio is now 7:5, and the airplane ratio gap is closing.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-18 14:45:35 and read 5464 times.

LIAT is in no financial position to acquire a plane such as the DHC8-400.They're are constantly in debt and require constant financial aids from caribbean govts.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2005-08-18 15:35:18 and read 5436 times.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 25):
LIAT is in no financial position to acquire a plane such as the DHC8-400.They're are constantly in debt and require constant financial aids from caribbean govts.

That didn't stop other airlines from acquiring new aircraft  wink  - US Airways & Bahamasair come to mind.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2005-08-18 15:36:29 and read 5449 times.

OK, another headcount after doing another research -
DHC8: Caribbean Sun -1, BWIA -3, Air Jamaica -2, LIAT -1, Bahamasair +7
ATR: Bonairexpress +1

Bahamasair: 7 DHC8
Carribbean Sun: 7 DHC8
Caribbean Star: 10 DHC8
LIAT: 10 DHC8
Air Jamaica: 3 DHC8
Tobago Express: 5 DHC8

Executive: 41 ATR72
Bonairexpress: 3 ATR42
Air Caraibes: 2 ATR42, 3 ATR72
Aerocaribbean: 4 ATR42
Aerogaviota: 4 ATR42

That makes 6:5 airlines and 42:57 airframes.  Smile

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: 8B775ZQ
Posted 2005-08-18 23:36:48 and read 5313 times.

That minus one for caribbean sun might be the aircraft that is currently operating for it's sister airline caribbean star but still retains the caribbean sun c/s and reg. The exact reg. i can't remember at this moment.

Topic: RE: Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean
Username: Fpofllflyboi
Posted 2005-08-22 02:46:24 and read 5155 times.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 26):
That didn't stop other airlines from acquiring new aircraft - US Airways & Bahamasair come to mind.

Perhaps that explains why they codeshare. Haha Big grin


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/