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Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-26 11:05:28 and read 11684 times.

Aeroflot Russian Airlines says it is plannning to buy 527 aircraft. These should in in their possesion before 2010. This was told by the head of the Federal air transport agency Alexander Yurchik thursday (august 25) to Moskounews

The plan is to buy 308 passager aircraft, 42 cargo aircraft and 177 helikocopters. According to Yurchik this wil result in an increase of 60% in passenger capasity.

source: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=9919 (dutch)

Valery Okulov says Aeroflot is to purchase newest long-range foreign-made aircraft. Aeroflot will be choosing between two likely options - Boeing’s 787 model dubbed Dreamliner and A-350.

The Airbus consortium unveiled at the latest Moskow air show cooperation with Irkut Corp to build parts of the A350.



They need widebodies urgently after the Il96-300 was grounded this week & will probably lease some.

Seems the "heritage" fleet of Aeroflot is starting to age..

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: SashA
Posted 2005-08-26 11:26:15 and read 11592 times.

Quite obvious choices for long-range capacity aircraft there. Gee, it does seem like the IL-96-300 has been grounded for prolonged time. Sad.

And what are the 177 helos for? Does Aeroflot operate such routes at all?

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: RedChili
Posted 2005-08-26 11:26:40 and read 11596 times.

Aeroflot has 90 airplanes and no helicopters today. For them to buy 308 pax planes, 42 cargo planes, and 177 helicopters during the coming five years sounds totally ridiculous. And the A350 is included among the airplanes they consider acquiring before 2010! I don't believe in this source at all.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Glareskin
Posted 2005-08-26 11:30:02 and read 11568 times.

Thanks Keesje,

But I don't read all this info in the linked article. Not a word about 787 or A350. Where did you see this?

What I did read is that Moscownews says that 60 - 70% of Aeroflot's fleet is ready for replacements. That will certainly be a tough fight between Airbus and Boeing!

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-26 11:39:28 and read 11535 times.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 3):
But I don't read all this info in the linked article. Not a word about 787 or A350. Where did you see this?

excuse me..
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2351874&PageNum=0

on Irkut A350:
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2005/08/17/afx2183457.html

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: RedChili
Posted 2005-08-26 11:42:45 and read 11518 times.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 3):
What I did read is that Moscownews says that 60 - 70% of Aeroflot's fleet is ready for replacements. That will certainly be a tough fight between Airbus and Boeing!

They really need to replace their T134 and T154, and in my opinion also the IL-96. Since they have recently acquired a lot of A32X planes, it would be reasonable to assume that they will replace the Tupolev's with those planes, although the A319 is a little bit too big as a T134 replacement, which has 68 seats. For replacement of the IL-96, it would make sense to lease a few 767s until they can get brand new 787 or A350.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: GARPD
Posted 2005-08-26 11:45:52 and read 11504 times.

This should prove very interesting.

No clear winner here. A and B have equal opportunities here.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Glareskin
Posted 2005-08-26 11:49:13 and read 11487 times.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 4):
excuse me..

No problem!

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-26 12:05:12 and read 11413 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 5):
although the A319 is a little bit too big as a T134 replacement, which has 68 seats

Some A318s maybe?!

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: L410Turbolet
Posted 2005-08-26 12:12:24 and read 11388 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 2):
For them to buy 308 pax planes, 42 cargo planes, and 177 helicopters during the coming five years sounds totally ridiculous.

That's what I thought too. Besides, with 787's first test flight being anticipated in 2007-8(?) and production being sold out for the first two years and the A350 still on the drawing board it is virtually impossible to place orders with delivery dates before 2010 anyway.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2005-08-26 12:21:49 and read 11360 times.

This does not seem realistic at all.....

Aeroflot777

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Keesje
Posted 2005-08-26 12:53:08 and read 11274 times.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 10):
This does not seem realistic at all.....

Agree, however it shows some opportunities for aircraft OEM's. Especially if import restrictions are softened, environmental restrictions sharpened & oil prices stay high.

Also opportunities for Russian OEM's and leasing companies stuck with 737-3/4/500, 767, MD80/B717, A300/310 and F100/Bea146 aircraft.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Soyuzavia
Posted 2005-08-26 14:14:15 and read 11029 times.

The projected 527 figure is for all Russian airlines. Not just SU.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
Also opportunities for Russian OEM's and leasing companies stuck with 737-3/4/500, 767, MD80/B717, A300/310 and F100/Bea146 aircraft.

Which is exactly why import duties should never, and probably will not in the near future, be lifted. They should continue to be taxed at 40%. Russia has enough aircraft which are at the end of their useful lives, without becoming a dumping ground for the buckets of junk no longer wanted in the US and Europe. Not to mention that most of these aircraft are not certified in Russia, and also that most are not suited to operations in the country.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-26 14:17:26 and read 11003 times.

What sort of financial state is SU in?

Is'nt there still a limit to the amount of forien ac that SU are allowed to operate?

Could somebody please list SUs entire fleet details inc all soviet types...

[Edited 2005-08-26 14:19:18]

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: GLAGAZ
Posted 2005-08-26 14:40:22 and read 10906 times.

Anyone smell an SU LCC? :P I echo the thoughts above about this seeming ridiculous.

Gaz

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: GARPD
Posted 2005-08-26 14:43:27 and read 10894 times.

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 14):
Anyone smell an SU LCC? :P I echo the thoughts above about this seeming ridiculous.

Well they've been assessing the possibility for a year now.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2005-08-26 14:55:58 and read 10866 times.

Aeroflot states they have 90 aircraft right now. They used to have a "fleet info" section in their website, but I can't find it.

Aeroflot777

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2005-08-26 15:02:51 and read 10848 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 2):
Aeroflot has 90 airplanes and no helicopters today. For them to buy 308 pax planes, 42 cargo planes, and 177 helicopters during the coming five years sounds totally ridiculous. And the A350 is included among the airplanes they consider acquiring before 2010! I don't believe in this source at all.

I agree. How would they get the production slots anyway? The 787 is booked solid until 2010 and the A-350 cannot produce a single plane before 2010, not to mention the 737 and A-319/320 slots are all gone until that time frame too. It would appear that the goal cannot be met based on this fact alone. And who would finance such a plan for them??

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-26 15:23:41 and read 10754 times.

Current SU fleet details here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/aeroflot

[Edited 2005-08-26 15:29:48]

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Aeroflot777
Posted 2005-08-26 15:44:06 and read 10673 times.

8 Airbus A319-100
7 Airbus A320-200
3 Airbus A321-200
6 Boeing 767-300
2 Ilyushin Il-76TD
8 Ilyushin Il-86
6 Ilyushin Il-96-300 (further 6 on order)
4 McDonnell Douglas DC-10-40
12 Tupolev Tu-134A
1 Tupolev Tu-134B
20 Tupolev Tu-154M


This is not the current entire fleet, as Aeroflot has 90 aircraft, and only 77 are stated here.

Aeroflot777

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-26 16:23:14 and read 10533 times.

Are some aircraft inactive or stored? (not inc Il-96)

[Edited 2005-08-26 16:23:57]

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: American 767
Posted 2005-08-26 16:57:35 and read 10452 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):

Yes, there must be quite a few. I know 1 B777 is stored, and probably the few B737-400's they had. I'm not sure about the TU-204, Aeroflot hasn't flown it for years but they may still have a few of them stored. I think that when they say 90 aircraft, it includes the ones I'm talking about in addition to what Aeroflot777 said.

Too bad the IL-96-300 is grounded. It is Aeroflot's flagship aircraft, and like some people said Russia's biggest achievement in the airliner business.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 5):
They really need to replace their T134 and T154, and in my opinion also the IL-96.

The 134, yes, that one is getting very old. It dates from the 60's. But the 154 can still fly for a few more years, maybe not on mainline flights but they can at least serve as charters. And some of them can be stored and serve as back up aircraft, should an aircraft be grounded for technical reasons.

I don't agree that the IL-96 should be replaced. It's not because they are grounded that they should be replaced for good. They are grounded but they will return to service once the braking problems are solved, parts have to be redesigned to meed ICAO safety standards according to what I have understood.
In 1979, the FAA grounded all DC-10's for a few weeks following the Chicago disaster. The DC-10 was still young at that time, once the cause of the disaster was investigated it returned to service. Those contunued to fly until the mid 90's when they were due for replacements.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
Quoting RedChili (Reply 5):
although the A319 is a little bit too big as a T134 replacement, which has 68 seats

Some A318s maybe?!

That's excactly what I have been thinking. I wrote this in a post a while ago, people responded to me that even the A318 was too large for a TU-134 replacement.
Air France replaced its Caravelles with B727 and B737 aircraft. Now at Air France the A318/19/20/21 do what the Caravelles used to do 30 years ago: fly pax on mainline flights in Europe. I mention this because, for me, the TU-134 is the Russian Caravelle.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-08-26 17:02:39 and read 10432 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Are some aircraft inactive or stored? (not inc Il-96)

SU has a number of Il-86s at SVO that don't seem to have been in active service for some time. I suspect that if these can be put back in service at a reasonable cost, they might be, but this won't really help SU's requirements for long-haul planes to fly to Europe and US.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Galapagapop
Posted 2005-08-26 17:08:11 and read 10413 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
Some A318s maybe?!

Still to big. For a Tu-134 seater I could possible see ERJ170's and possible some other E-jets

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Worldliner
Posted 2005-08-26 18:33:44 and read 9795 times.

well the frieghters will all be il96-400t. its been construsted as we speak

worldliner

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: A999
Posted 2005-08-26 22:11:38 and read 8376 times.

Aeroflot777

According to JP airline-fleets SU is listed with another 4 TU154Ms, plus 3 stored IL86s plus an additional 763 for delivery 2005. Otherwise your listing is perfectly right:
Regards

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: KULATICT
Posted 2005-08-26 23:48:54 and read 7887 times.

well, they said they planned to BUY by 2010, not OPERATE by 2010, so there's no big issue regarding slots for 787 & A350 delivery date. So, why is the article not reliable?

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: RedChili
Posted 2005-08-27 00:39:51 and read 7648 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Are some aircraft inactive or stored? (not inc Il-96)

I believe that Aeroflot also has some IL-62 planes stored.

Aeroflot says on its web site: "Aeroflot air fleet consists of 90 planes... By 2005 73 planes are to be operated on the airline company’s air routes."

Quote from http://www.aeroflot.ru/eng/company.asp?ob_no=741

Quoting American 767 (Reply 21):
I'm not sure about the TU-204, Aeroflot hasn't flown it for years

Actually, the current Aeroflot has never operated the Tu-204. But at that time when all airlines in the Soviet Union were called by the same name, Aeroflot, the Tu-204 was operated by a couple of them.

Quoting KULATICT (Reply 26):
well, they said they planned to BUY by 2010, not OPERATE by 2010,

Read the thread starter: "These should in in their possesion before 2010."

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-27 00:58:55 and read 7568 times.

A while back there were roumers of SU going for austrian 340s to replace the 777s. With the IL 96S out of the picture for an uncertain time , is it time for SU to start looking at the 340 again. Those IL 86s will need to go eventually also.
Maybe the 330 would make a good IL 86 replacement.

[Edited 2005-08-27 00:59:47]

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Stirling
Posted 2005-08-27 01:05:24 and read 7541 times.

2 things stick out in my brain....

1. Given Russia's (Soviet Union's) rich aviation heritage, it is a shame to think the country cannot support it's own aeronautical requirements. There was a time not long ago when the only thing in skies above Mother Russia, were made in Mother Russia. (a few exceptions to the rule duly noted)

2. The stiff import duty, while an obstacle to Western OEMs, should be the incentive for the national industries to unite under one banner (ala Airbus) and get to work immediately developing the full range of Russian airliners. Afterall, as has been stated:

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
most of these aircraft are not certified in Russia, and also that most are not suited to operations in the country.

Who better to design and build than the people who operate from within the system.

Globally, aviation is a different animal than it was just a few short years ago when the IronCurtain came down....McDonnell-Douglas, Fokker, Dornier, and others have gone, or have been assimilated into other conglomerates....and the same should happen in Russia too....as in pooling the resources of Tupolev, Illyushin, Antonov etc into one, "Russian Aerospace Industries", for the good of Russia.
Back when they enjoyed a captive market, operating independently was one thing, with Boeing and Airbus beating on the door, it's do or die time.

For an aviation enthusiast, it will be a sad day when the only aircraft operating in Russia are built in Seattle or Toulouse. (and Hamburg and Wichita and Brazil and Montreal) Nothing can replace the memory of seeing an IL-62 for the first and last time...and the experience for other types gets more rare by the day....

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Starrion
Posted 2005-08-27 04:17:51 and read 6795 times.

As I recall the TU-204 is a fairly modern narrowbody similar to the 757. Is there any reason Aeroflot would not consider a significant number of those aircraft for modernization purposes?

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Justman
Posted 2005-08-27 10:53:46 and read 5764 times.

Can someone tell me, why Aeroflot has stored their Tu-204´s after the end of the soviet union and never used them again?
Or are thay maybe with other airlines in Russia now?

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-27 11:44:34 and read 5652 times.

Quoting Justman (Reply 31):
Can someone tell me, why Aeroflot has stored their Tu-204´s after the end of the soviet union and never used them again?
Or are thay maybe with other airlines in Russia now

As with most of SUs fleet I think they were dished out to the post soviet era airlines. SU had well over 1000 aircraft during that time.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-08-27 13:28:12 and read 5592 times.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 29):
1. Given Russia's (Soviet Union's) rich aviation heritage, it is a shame to think the country cannot support it's own aeronautical requirements. There was a time not long ago when the only thing in skies above Mother Russia, were made in Mother Russia. (a few exceptions to the rule duly noted)

There were two major factors in that scenario:
1) Captive audience (Aeroflot).
2) Endless supply of money.

In the cold-war era, the Soviets wanted to show they could match anything the west could do, so money was pumped in to aviation (both civil and military) and space. Post Soviet ear, the supply of money has all but dried up. Russian aviation is in a major slump that it's difficult to see a way out of.

I have just returned from a trip to Moscow for the MAKS air show. We visited a number of major military bases, all of which were in a terrible state of disrepair. The overall impression is one of an air force being run on a shoestring budget. Yes, they can put some awesome planes in the sky, but I have real doubts as to how many. The number of obviously unservicable planes we saw was simply staggering.

We also visited the technical institute in Samara where all Soviet engine and rocket work is done. The place is a complete dump! On one wall were letters from the top brass at RR, GE and MTU singing the praises of the institute. All the letters were dated 1993 (two years after the fall of communism). I think very little money has come the institute's way since then. In all the rooms we were shown, I didn't see a single computer!

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Donder10
Posted 2005-08-27 21:37:34 and read 5415 times.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
Which is exactly why import duties should never, and probably will not in the near future, be lifted. They should continue to be taxed at 40%. Russia has enough aircraft which are at the end of their useful lives, without becoming a dumping ground for the buckets of junk no longer wanted in the US and Europe. Not to mention that most of these aircraft are not certified in Russia, and also that most are not suited to operations in the country.

Hardly the case though seeing as Aeroflot's 'Western' fleet is relatively young although not the case with some others eg VIM,Transaero.
How does registering their fleet in Bermuda affect them with regards to tariffs;does it eliminated them?

Either way tariffs are not going to help Russian aviation.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: RedChili
Posted 2005-08-29 00:44:30 and read 5157 times.

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 12):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 11):
Also opportunities for Russian OEM's and leasing companies stuck with 737-3/4/500, 767, MD80/B717, A300/310 and F100/Bea146 aircraft.

Which is exactly why import duties should never, and probably will not in the near future, be lifted. They should continue to be taxed at 40%. Russia has enough aircraft which are at the end of their useful lives, without becoming a dumping ground for the buckets of junk no longer wanted in the US and Europe. Not to mention that most of these aircraft are not certified in Russia, and also that most are not suited to operations in the country.

Several of the planes metioned here are certified in Russia, at least the 737, 767, and A310.

It's certainly not good for Russia to become a dumping ground for old European planes, but at the same time, Russia will soon see a real aviation crisis. Many many airplanes flying in Russia today are so old that they will soon have to be replaced, and with the 40 percent import duties, most airlines cannot afford to buy a replacement from abroad, and Russian airplanes are not readily available. So if Russia does not lift the import duties soon, the reality is that many airlines will go out of business, and a few airlines will survive. Actually, this could become a very good thing for Russia if only a dozen of the best and strongest carriers survive.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 28):
A while back there were roumers of SU going for austrian 340s to replace the 777s. With the IL 96S out of the picture for an uncertain time , is it time for SU to start looking at the 340 again.

A few years ago, SU had too many different airplane types. They deciced to cut back on the number of types to save money. So in their Western fleet, instead of flying the A310, B734, B763 and B772, they are now flying only the A32X and B763. Introducing the A340 into their fleet would be the opposite of what they've been doing the last two years. Instead of introducing a new type, I believe that SU would rather acquire some more B763s.

Quoting Justman (Reply 31):
Can someone tell me, why Aeroflot has stored their Tu-204´s after the end of the soviet union and never used them again?
Or are thay maybe with other airlines in Russia now?

During the Soviet era, Aeroflot was not one airline. Here's how it workerd:

In every city, there was a local airline which had the responsibility for operating the airport, the airport hotel, ticket offices, and a local airline. Since all these airlines were government owned and competition did not exist, all airlines simply had the same name: Aeroflot, which means "air fleet" or "airline."

When the Soviet Union broke up, many of these airlines were privatized, and most of them were separated from the airport operations. One exception to this was the "Pulkovo-Aeroflot," which has continued to operate both an airport and an airline under the name of Pulkovo to this day.

The Aeroflot which exists today was the "Sheremetyevo-Aeroflot." And the "Sheremetyevo-Aeroflot" has never operated the Tu-204. It was operated by other airlines, like the "Vnukovo-Aeroflot." They have since been bought by Sibir, so their Tu-204s are today a part of the Sibir fleet.

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 34):
How does registering their fleet in Bermuda affect them with regards to tariffs;does it eliminated them?

No, it does not. They still have to pay taxes. However, Aeroflot has an agreement with the government from the end of the 1990s saying that they can operate a certain number of foreign airplanes without paying the import duties. They got this agreement in return for ordering a few IL-96 planes at that time, but the planes were never delivered.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: EI321
Posted 2005-08-29 15:06:46 and read 5018 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 35):
A few years ago, SU had too many different airplane types. They deciced to cut back on the number of types to save money. So in their Western fleet, instead of flying the A310, B734, B763 and B772, they are now flying only the A32X and B763. Introducing the A340 into their fleet would be the opposite of what they've been doing the last two years. Instead of introducing a new type, I believe that SU would rather acquire some more B763s.

Thats why I think they could replace the 767s with 332s (a bit bigger I know) and maybe adopt some 340s if the IL86 or 777s need a successor soon. These airbus wide bodys (and the IL96s) could ultimatly be replaced by the A350 as the fleet acquisation programme in the article seems to require such an aircraft.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Afay1
Posted 2005-08-29 17:31:18 and read 4928 times.

Quoting Justman (Reply 31):
Can someone tell me, why Aeroflot has stored their Tu-204´s after the end of the soviet union and never used them again?
Or are thay maybe with other airlines in Russia now?


Perhaps you are reffering to the stored protoypes in various Aeroflot liveries at Zhukovsky (Ramonskoye)? They are indeed just sitting there rotting away, but I don't know the reason why. I assume that they were never really meant for airline service.

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: IRelayer
Posted 2005-08-29 22:03:58 and read 4816 times.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 35):

Very interesting and informative breakdown...kudos.

What is sad about this is that the Russian Aviation industry has had almost 15 years to get their house in order and offer up a competitive product that would guarantee their survival, and they haven't done it. Even with that stupid import tariff! Ridiculous. So much expertise...sure they were far behind the West technologically (engines especially...), but they were given a long time to catch up. If they could field a competitve range of products, they have a homegrown market that would love to buy their planes. Plus they have at least a fighting chance in the export market with places that can/won't buy from the West...like Iran, who are in desperate need of efficient, new-build planes for long, medium, and short-haul and many African countries...not to mention China, who seems to buy planes from everybody.

At this point, the only aircraft that come close to being competitive are the Tu-204 series (the RR powered ones) and the IL-96-300 with Aviagatel PS-90A's and western avionics. Even Antonov in the Ukraine has found its market niche and is doing OK (very large cargo aircraft and small regional props marketed to third-world countries).

Now they are faced with a huge, inefficient business model, they can barely get enough work to keep the factories open, and none of the new designs are in serial production...and it seems to take years and years to build new aircraft and get them delivered. Are they building them by hand?

Why not just combine all of these companies into one mega aircraft designer/manufacturer and re-adjust themselves to the realities of the 21st century, get some foreign investment (again China comes to mind) and go roaring ahead? Are they complacent/lazy/stupid?

-IR

[Edited 2005-08-29 22:09:23]

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: HighFlyer9790
Posted 2005-08-29 22:30:02 and read 4769 times.

WOW...complete incompetence...do you believe it? ive never heard of an airline ordering a total of 527 aircraft...thats crazy  crazy 

Topic: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: Afay1
Posted 2005-08-29 22:52:43 and read 4736 times.

HighFlyer- if you read the thread you would have realized that it is a mistake. All the Russian airlines together will order 527 by 2010, not just Aeroflot. There is no way to say this without sounding mean, but just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it is incompetence.

Topic: RE: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: RedChili
Posted 2005-08-30 08:07:49 and read 4635 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 36):
Thats why I think they could replace the 767s with 332s

Replace the 767? They just acquired them last year! I believe they have a lease on those planes for X number of years, so they cannot get rid of them right now.

It would be better for them to keep the 767s until some time between 2010-2012, when they can change them into brand new 787 or A350 planes. To try to change to the Airbus A330/A340 family now, and then make another change in a few years from now, would be very inconvenient, and possibly also very expensive if they have a lease on the 767 for a certain number of years.

Topic: RE: Russian Airlines To Buy 527 Aircraft Before 2010
Username: MX757
Posted 2005-08-30 08:59:33 and read 4606 times.

Check out this news release, it's from Boeing's website.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q3/nr_050817g.html


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