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Topic: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: Bartond
Posted 2005-11-09 21:36:21 and read 3649 times.

This has probably been mulled over on this website before, but what exactly is behind the new (re-introduced) DFW-KIX service with AA? Didn't they initially start the route due to some good cargo contracts but when they lost them and 9/11 happened, they stopped the route? So did they get the cargo contracts back or is there some other reason as to why they chose Osaka over somewhere like Hong Kong?

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: Commavia
Posted 2005-11-09 22:11:48 and read 3582 times.

Quoting Bartond (Thread starter):
This has probably been mulled over on this website before, but what exactly is behind the new (re-introduced) DFW-KIX service with AA?

AA feels that the market is now ready again for a daily link to the world's second largest hub. In addition, JAL's impending joining of the oneworld alliance will no doubt help.

Quoting Bartond (Thread starter):
Didn't they initially start the route due to some good cargo contracts but when they lost them and 9/11 happened, they stopped the route?

Correct. They did lose their corporate and cargo contracts following 9/11. However, they obviously have gotten enough contracts back to feel comfortable in re-entering the market.

Quoting Bartond (Thread starter):
So did they get the cargo contracts back or is there some other reason as to why they chose Osaka over somewhere like Hong Kong?

HKG won't be seeing AA metal for a while, not because the market could not support it. AA could easily fill a daily ORD-HKG flight profitably. The problem is aircraft availability. AA is desperately short of 777s, and certainly could not sustain the three 777s needed to operate a daily ORD-HKG flight. DFW-KIX only requries 2 aircraft.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: AirxLiban
Posted 2005-11-09 22:25:26 and read 3539 times.

Where is the 777 coming from to support this route? They've opened up a fair amount of new 777 routes recently...

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-11-09 22:59:16 and read 3491 times.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
Where is the 777 coming from to support this route? They've opened up a fair amount of new 777 routes recently..

The 2nd daily MIA-EZE. However, since AA has since ended ORD-NGO, the ORD-NGO 777 planes will be able to go back to 2nd daily MIA-EZE.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: Commavia
Posted 2005-11-10 00:01:36 and read 3417 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
However, since AA has since ended ORD-NGO, the ORD-NGO 777 planes will be able to go back to 2nd daily MIA-EZE.

Is this confirmed? If so, any guidance on when this is going to show up in the schedules?

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2005-11-10 00:09:53 and read 3399 times.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Is this confirmed? If so, any guidance on when this is going to show up in the schedules?

It hasn't been published in the schedules, but I have been told it will happen in December. Not confirmed, but it makes perfect sense.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: TymnBalewne
Posted 2005-11-10 00:36:42 and read 3347 times.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
HKG won't be seeing AA metal for a while, not because the market could not support it. AA could easily fill a daily ORD-HKG flight profitably.

Any idea if we'll see AA ORD (or DFW)-HKG before May 2006?

C.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: CIDflyer
Posted 2005-11-10 02:40:43 and read 3229 times.

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 6):
Any idea if we'll see AA ORD (or DFW)-HKG before May 2006?

not sure if it could start b4 May of 2006, but I could see oneworld alliance member Cathay Pacific maybe starting these routes.....

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: MarshalN
Posted 2005-11-10 02:57:21 and read 3190 times.

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 7):
not sure if it could start b4 May of 2006, but I could see oneworld alliance member Cathay Pacific maybe starting these routes.....

Indeed, I think it will make more sense for Cathay to do so and have it be a codeshare with AA, and I'm not really sure if DFW is the place to fly to from HKG. Also, is there any restrictions on HKG's side for how many US carriers who can fly to HKG? Right now there are UA, NW, and CO. Can more join?

On a more related note on this DFW-KIX route -- I'm planning on going to KIX next March. Any clue how much the tickets could be? Do you think a new route will be cheaper than an established route (like UA's ORD-KIX)?

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: AirxLiban
Posted 2005-11-10 03:00:02 and read 3178 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
since AA has since ended ORD-NGO

Why did they stop the route?

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 6):
Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
HKG won't be seeing AA metal for a while, not because the market could not support it. AA could easily fill a daily ORD-HKG flight profitably.

Any idea if we'll see AA ORD (or DFW)-HKG before May 2006?

I didn't say that...

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: Jakob77
Posted 2005-11-10 03:05:02 and read 3168 times.

AA also just started codesharing on 1 of CX's daily flights to KIX.
AA6086/AA6087 codeshares on CX506/507.
The previous HKG - NGO codeshare is now cancelled with the cancellation of NGO - ORD.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: NYCAAer
Posted 2005-11-10 15:11:18 and read 2952 times.

I had heard in the company rumor mill that the original reason why American got rid of DFW-KIX after 9-11 was that the landing fees for Kansai were outrageously high and AA couldn't make a go of it. I never heard anything about cargo nor corporate contracts for this route.

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: CV990
Posted 2005-11-10 15:42:55 and read 2946 times.

Hi!

I personally think it's an excelent move from AA to get to KIX! I was there in April/May 2005 and I was very impressed not only by the excelent facilities KIX have but also by Osaka city itself and how european airlines are exploring this route too. I flew with KL ( 777 AMS/KIX and 744 KIX/AMS ) both flights neatly full, I saw AF flying 777, LH A346, AZ 777, AY MD11... has you can see all widebodies and really the big ones.... and amazingly when I was at the airport I maybe saw 2 or 3 narrow-body airplanes there... the rest the smallest one was the 767 and from foreign airlines the smallest was Korean A300-600 but.... also a 744, then there were 2 THAI 777, one of them a 300 version, SIA 777's, Cathay A330-300's.... unbelievable, just unbelievable! So AA might have a nice nieche there, what US airlines we habe flying to KIX beside NW? UA? And noone else?
Regards

Topic: RE: AA's DFW To KIX
Username: Commavia
Posted 2005-11-10 16:51:07 and read 2873 times.

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 11):
I had heard in the company rumor mill that the original reason why American got rid of DFW-KIX after 9-11 was that the landing fees for Kansai were outrageously high and AA couldn't make a go of it. I never heard anything about cargo nor corporate contracts for this route.

It was both. The KIX landing and facility fees are the highest in the world (or perhaps second highest, only to NRT) and meant that fares really could not fall much in the market before the flight became unprofitable. However, AA did, indeed, also lose several key cargo contracts on the route following 9/11. Both of these factors contributed heavily to the route's being pulled in January 2002.


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