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Topic: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: RoseFlyer
Posted 2005-11-16 17:28:14 and read 8816 times.

If you know me, you know that I always celebrate the engineering accomplishments that allow aviation to progress forward. Today is the 35th anniversary of the first Lockheed L-1011 Tristar flight. The Lockheed TriStar was the second widebody airliner to be launched, and although it was dogged with early financial and development problems, particularly with the engine, it went on to gain an excellent reputation in service for its reliability, economy of operation and low noise emissions. It saw its first flight on November 16th 1970.

The L-1011 TriStar was the last Lockheed airliner to be developed and was launched in March 1968 in response to an American Airlines requirement (that also resulted in the DC-10) for a large capacity medium range airliner. Lockheed initially studied a twin engined layout, but it was decided that three engines would be necessary to ensure it could takeoff at max weights from existing runways.

This was the last commercial jetliner from a proud name in aviation history. Lockheed produced some of the most advanced airplanes of their day with the Constellation and Electra being the best at what they did. Lockheed with the Constellation created the first mass produced pressurized airplane. The involvement of Lockheed with another famous name, namely TWA, represents some historic accomplishments in air travel. Although Lockheed has moved on to build many successful military aircraft, it still has a following in commercial aviation. The Tristar was an amazing plane that was a major accomplishment in its day. Although sales were less than McDonnell Douglas' and Boeing's widebody jets, the Tristar still has an excellent reputation for its capabilities. Although it only sold 250 units, it still was an excellent, reliable and safe airplane. If it were not for the delays associated with the Rolls Royce bankruptcy and production problems, the Tristar would have probably gone on to outsell the DC-10.

So congratulations to the Lockheed team and all of those that were involved in the operation of those airplanes. Happy 35th birthday for the Tristar!

[Edited 2005-11-16 17:57:34]

Topic: RE: 35th Anniversary For The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: KYAir
Posted 2005-11-16 17:57:54 and read 8758 times.

This was also their first (and hence, last) jetliner, correct? If so, what were they offering airlines during the '60s while Douglas and Boeing were selling 707s, 727s, 737s, DC-8s and DC-9s? It occurs to me that the entry into jet power was a little late on Lockheed's part. Could that also have contributed to low sales, as the airlines had begun to rely on Boeing and Douglas for jets? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Tristar. I only had the pleasure of one flight, from MCO to ATL in 1999 on DL.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2005-11-16 18:04:30 and read 8741 times.

Sadly I never flew on one ( they were like hen's teeth in my part of the world ) but I think it was the most beautiful jet - especially when you compare the elegant mounting of the number 2 engine with the clumsy effort on the DC-10/MD-11 ( yes , I know I am going to get flamed in a big way for that remark - just remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder and for me it was beautiful )

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: GQfluffy
Posted 2005-11-16 18:39:28 and read 8685 times.

Quoting KYAir (Reply 1):
This was also their first (and hence, last) jetliner, correct? If so, what were they offering airlines during the '60s while Douglas and Boeing were selling 707s, 727s, 737s, DC-8s and DC-9s? It occurs to me that the entry into jet power was a little late on Lockheed's part.

Ever heard (pun intended  Wink ) of the C-5?

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: KYAir
Posted 2005-11-16 18:52:46 and read 8661 times.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 3):
Ever heard (pun intended ) of the C-5?

Yep, sure have. If I'm not mistaken, it was never offered or intended as a commercial airliner. Perhaps I should have said "commercial jet airliner" instead of jetliner!  banghead 

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: GQfluffy
Posted 2005-11-16 18:57:09 and read 8650 times.

My point was maybe they were completely invested in the C-5 and didn't have time to work on commercial products. IIRC, they ran into huge cost-overruns with the C-5...

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: AirbusA6
Posted 2005-11-16 19:01:24 and read 8639 times.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
It occurs to me that the entry into jet power was a little late on Lockheed's part. Could that also have contributed to low sales, as the airlines had begun to rely on Boeing and Douglas for jets?

Didn't Airbus have that problem in the 70s, where the A300 was very much an orphan plane, until the smaller A310 and far more importantly the A320 were launched?

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 3):
Sadly I never flew on one ( they were like hen's teeth in my part of the world ) but I think it was the most beautiful jet - especially when you compare the elegant mounting of the number 2 engine with the clumsy effort on the DC-10/MD

Hear hear!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2005-11-16 19:01:50 and read 8637 times.

The TriStar was my favourite widebody before the A330. I had the good luck to visit Palmdale to see these great machines being built in 1978.

The very first TriStar and first -500:

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Other TriStars at Palmdale:

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Regular visitors to London in the 70s:

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Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: KYAir
Posted 2005-11-16 19:22:15 and read 8608 times.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 5):
My point was maybe they were completely invested in the C-5 and didn't have time to work on commercial products. IIRC, they ran into huge cost-overruns with the C-5...

OK, hadn't considered that. If Lockheed had to sacrifice one for the other (military vs. civilian) they certainly picked the right one - otherwise, a.netters would be fighting over a,b and l!!!

I'd still like to have seen more tristars in service.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Lucianflyboy
Posted 2005-11-16 21:39:24 and read 8487 times.

I had the extreme pleasure of flying BWIA's L-1011 'SunJet St Lucia' around the Caribbean. I never did any long hauls but the 35-60 minute flights were awesome!

Also had the pleasure of working that biatch! Easy plane to work with large galleys! She just had a habit of breaking down when ever she touched ground on her named island. Damit! I do miss them. I get to see the ATA one every now and then at DFW.


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Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Magyarorszag
Posted 2005-11-16 21:59:43 and read 8440 times.

The TriStar never was my favorite airliner. I always preferred its competitor. But with time passing, I know that I'll miss it when it won't be around anymore, especially that most modern aircraft are more or less looking the same. Too bad that most of the L1011s haven't had a second lease of life as cargo haulers as most DC-10s have...

For sure it is a great achievement for Lockheed teams that some of "their" L1011s are still flying despite the poor sales.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posted 2005-11-16 22:41:59 and read 8377 times.

I was pleased to fly on the Caledonian branded former BA Tristar a few years back. Loved it. Was even more pleased to tour the one the RAF bought in for the Fairford airshow this summer. Ok, military, not civilian, but they were kind enough to give me a safety card! btw the RAF plan on keeping the Tristar in service for many more years so said theRAF pilot I was talking to.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Notarzt
Posted 2005-11-16 23:20:24 and read 8313 times.

Quoting KYAir (Reply 1):
This was also their first (and hence, last) jetliner, correct? If so, what were they offering airlines during the '60s while Douglas and Boeing were selling 707s, 727s, 737s, DC-8s and DC-9s? It occurs to me that the entry into jet power was a little late on Lockheed's part.

In the early post-war years, Lockheed's commercial division concentrated in advanced-technology turboprop airliners (the L-188 Electra). In opposite to Boeing, Convair, Douglas and others, Lockheed never concentrated in having a complete porduct line for the commercial market, i.e. covering all market segments from 100 thru 400 passengers, and from very short- to ultra long-range.

Following the Electra, Lockheed invested much time, money and engineering knowledge in advanced products such as the L-1011, the C-5 Galaxy (was intented to be commercially sold as the L-500 Freighter) as well as the U.S.'s Supersonic Transport project. Apart from these commercial products, Lockheed built the C-130 Hercules (also manufactured for the commercial market as L-100), the C-141 Starlifter, the U-2, the SR-71 Blackbird and a variety of other military fighters and bombers.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Slider
Posted 2005-11-16 23:41:02 and read 8283 times.

Love the L1011. Miss it a lot, but time marches on.

It was a great (and fast!) airplane, technologically advanced for its time, and had RR not had such difficulties getting that engine done, I wager the L10 would have dusted the DC10 in terms of sales.

I can still hear that unique engine runup on takeoff in my head. Great airplane!

I lament Lockheed's getting out of the commercial business, as they could have advanced the industry further. A 2-engine variant of the L1011 would have legitimately pushed the 767.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Sabena332
Posted 2005-11-16 23:46:40 and read 8270 times.

Threads like this make me really angry.  Wink

I am still trying to get a flight on the L1011 because I never had the opportunity. And guess what, I lived near DUS all my life and flew regulary on LTU (a major L1011 operator in the past) but I never got this friggin plane! I also flew a lot on DL when they still had their TriStars..... but nope.... I always got 757's and 767's.  Angry

Hopefully I can realize a flight on the Tristar that was recently leased by Mahan Air when I travel to Iran next year!

Patrick

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: GDB
Posted 2005-11-16 23:56:06 and read 8247 times.

Great aircraft, many at BA miss it.
My first airline experience was on a BA L1011, towed across the to the engine test bay for a run.
Flew BA a couple of times, and in December 1993, a CX example from BKK to HKG.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-17 00:37:55 and read 8207 times.

Quoting KYAir (Reply 1):
This was also their first (and hence, last) jetliner, correct? If so, what were they offering airlines during the '60s while Douglas and Boeing were selling 707s, 727s, 737s, DC-8s and DC-9s? It occurs to me that the entry into jet power was a little late on Lockheed's part. Could that also have contributed to low sales, as the airlines had begun to rely on Boeing and Douglas for jets? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Tristar. I only had the pleasure of one flight, from MCO to ATL in 1999 on DL.

The C-141 was designed as both a military and commercial aircraft and went through a complete FAA certification program, receiving its type certificate in January 1965. Slick Airways ordered a commercial version by merged with Airlift International and the orders were cancelled. No further commercial orders were taken. While Boeing and Douglas were building those 60's era airliners, Lockheed had many military programs than more than made up for not having a commercial program at the time.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Alessandro
Posted 2005-11-17 01:04:54 and read 8177 times.

How many Tristar´s fly nowadays? RAF operates one to Ascension which you
can go to if you apply for permission and pay up...

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Simpilicity
Posted 2005-11-17 01:23:28 and read 8162 times.

So how can we charter an L1011-500 to fly into the U.S.?

Someone must know of some for charter that can fly into the U.S. ???

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-17 01:28:28 and read 8156 times.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 17):
How many Tristar´s fly nowadays? RAF operates one to Ascension which you
can go to if you apply for permission and pay up...

As of 31 March 2005, there were 50 Tristars still flying.

L-1011-1 (including -40 & -50) - 11
L-1011-100 - 7
L-1011-150 - 1
L-1011-200 - 3
L-1011-250 - 3
L-1011-500 - 25

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Simpilicity
Posted 2005-11-17 01:30:16 and read 8149 times.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 19):
As of 31 March 2005, there were 50 Tristars still flying.

We only need 1 or 2 -500's !!!

H E L P !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: ContnlEliteCMH
Posted 2005-11-17 01:36:10 and read 8136 times.

I flew on a TWA L-1011 in 1993 or 1995, can't remember which. Flight was mostly empty, and it had a female captain. I sat on the port side just at the trailing edge of the wing. Here's what I remember:

(1) Thunderously noisy. No doubt attributable to the seat in which I was sitting, it was unbelievably loud.
(2) Cavernous. It had no center bins. It reminded me of a movie theather of sorts, with the screen on the bulkhead.

I've also flown on an NW DC-10 across the pond, twice. I agree with a prior poster, that I preferred the 10. But I love to fly, and I enjoyed both.

I always thought the L-1011 had a particularly ugly nose...

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: SWA TPA
Posted 2005-11-17 03:18:25 and read 8043 times.

I always remembered the date that Delta got their 1st -1011. October 3rd 1973. I was 1 year old to the day! I always found it SUPER fitting that my favorite airplane with my favorite operator would have initiated service on my birthday! LOL!


SWA TPA

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Ba97
Posted 2005-11-17 03:35:14 and read 8028 times.

I flew on AC's L1011s many times. I noticed 2 things....They seemed to take off at a slow speed and quietly float into the air and on landing they seemed so smooth all the time. Any reason for that? I did love those planes.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2005-11-17 04:49:24 and read 7974 times.

I was out at VCV today,and they are working on 2 ex-DL L's . One was hanging out of the hanger. I wonder where they're going ?
I flew on 2 L's , July 95 CVG-ZRH on Delta. I remember the movie screen had to be attached to the ceiling.
I also bought Delta's L-1011 retirement poster when I was in Houston , had I t framed,too.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-17 05:19:47 and read 7950 times.

The L-1011 was by far the most advanced of the 1970's airliners, with such features as: Autoland certified to zero/zero, Direct Lift Control for smooth approaches, Active Ailerons as effective as winglets (3% fuel savings) and added to a smooth flight, Flight Management System, could fly the L-1011 hands off from brake release on takeoff to run out on landing, Auto Throttles, Auto Brakes and a lot of other features that some more modern aircraft still don't have. And it still amazes me that no other commercial airliners has gone to the flying stabilizer.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Max Q
Posted 2005-11-17 05:21:41 and read 7949 times.

Beautiful, classic well engineered aircraft, way ahead of it's time and far superior to the DC10.

Never had a DESIGN caused accident, couldn't say that about the -10!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-17 05:25:37 and read 7941 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
Beautiful, classic well engineered aircraft, way ahead of it's time and far superior to the DC10.

Amen Brother!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 1011
Posted 2005-11-17 07:57:49 and read 7852 times.

The L10 was and still is my fav airplane. I flew on 62 of them most of the time we took flights just to fly on that loud, smelly, smoking L10. What a awesome plane. I really miss that plane when I am flying transcon on a 320 or 757. Now that plane was built well. If I ever was in a aircraft accident I'd want it to be on a L10 because that thing was built tough and you had a better chance to survive. I won't even mention the CRAPbus.

Delta bring back the L10s they are still paid for.

I think their is a new startup flying flights to Africa out of JFK using L10s

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: TriStar500
Posted 2005-11-17 07:59:03 and read 7851 times.

Ah yeah, the TriStar... this is the bird which started my love of aviation, the love that lead me to procure a career in this business. I will never forget the awesome sight and sound - if you have ever heard an RB211 starting up, you know this unique low-pitched universally vibrating hummm - of those huuuge red-and-white LTU TriStars, which carried me and my parents reliably and comfortably back and forth, year by year, on our holiday flights during the 1980's.

Sad to think that we live in a world of generic Airbus- and Boeing designs nowadays...  Sad

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: TS-IOR
Posted 2005-11-17 11:12:23 and read 7785 times.

The 35th anniversary of the L-1011 is not so happy to my point of view because only few birds are still flying and the concept didn't really worked as Lockheed stopped its "adventure" of building civil aircrafts !!!

The first aircraft i've been on was a Tristar of LTU,so undoubtedly i have a nostalgea for the type  Wink

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kaneporta1
Posted 2005-11-17 12:24:32 and read 7747 times.

35 years old huh? Is NW interested for any of these planes by any chance???

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: DL_Mech
Posted 2005-11-17 12:25:32 and read 7747 times.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 25):
And it still amazes me that no other commercial airliners has gone to the flying stabilizer.

And DLC.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2005-11-17 14:54:30 and read 7421 times.

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 17):
How many Tristar´s fly nowadays? RAF operates one to Ascension which you
can go to if you apply for permission and pay up...

If you mean the service that goes to the Falklands, it got subcontracted out and operators like BA, VS and BD have done it over the years.

Excel have been flying it recently. Sometimes you might see a TriStar but it's not guaranteed.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: EI747SYDNEY
Posted 2005-11-17 15:17:47 and read 7281 times.

Fantastic looking plane with a great name to boot.But the numbers are dwindling fast. Does anyone have any info on how many are still flying.

Thanks

Rob  wave 

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2005-11-17 15:32:42 and read 7181 times.

My very first commercial airplane ride was an L1011 on EA from BUF to ATL. It was a rea thrill, and I flew one every chance I could in the 70's and 80's. I will miss them when they are gone. The aircraft was amazing in it's day, and I preferred it over the DC-10, which I also flew many time on UA between ORD and LAS.

The team at Lockheed did a spectacular job on this remarkable aircraft.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-17 16:34:17 and read 6934 times.

Quoting 1011 (Reply 28):
Delta bring back the L10s they are still paid for.

If you notice Delta's problems started about the same time they started to retire the L-1011's. My be just a coincidence?

Reminds me of Eastern, they decided it would be better to buy A300's for $24M than take up options they held on L-1011's for $13M. They said because the A300 used less fuel. I often wondered how many flights you could fly on $10M worth of fuel?

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2005-11-17 16:42:23 and read 6879 times.

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 34):
Does anyone have any info on how many are still flying.

reply #19 does
 Wink

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Captaink
Posted 2005-11-17 16:53:44 and read 6798 times.

I have always thought the L1011 to be an amazing aircraft. Growing up in the caribbean, I had the pleasure of being around and seeing quite alot of BWIA's Tristars.

I have gotten the chance to fly on ATA's tristars. Unlike BW they have no centre bins, so the cabin is pretty cavernous as mentioned by a fellow a.netter. It was an amazing flight. The airplane feels really powerful on take off, and i remember the rather shaky landings. I think it was among the most fun flights i have ever taken.

I prefer the look of the Tstar to the DC10, specifically the number 2 engine mounting. And the long nose as some mentioned is also something i thought was pretty awesome. Great Great airliner. I hope that by some miracle i get to fly one again before they are all gone.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Glidepath73
Posted 2005-11-17 16:56:34 and read 6778 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
Beautiful, classic well engineered aircraft, way ahead of it's time and far superior to the DC10.

Never had a DESIGN caused accident, couldn't say that about the -10!

I second that. The DC-10 caused lot's of problems to the airlines on it early years. After time even the DC-10 developed to a good workhorse.

How many fatal accident's had the Tristar? Two? I remember one with a Delta Tristar, caused by bad surprising winds during approach.

Regards,
Patrick

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: EI747SYDNEY
Posted 2005-11-17 16:57:16 and read 6771 times.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 37):
reply #19 does

Thanks man. I think my eyes are going square here  boggled 

Rob  wave 

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: AIRCANL1011
Posted 2005-11-17 17:02:42 and read 6732 times.

My First flight was on an AC L1011 From LHR to YYZ. I have flown on a few others with Air Transat and Worldways Canada.

After AC retired theirs, there was a long drought at YYZ with no L1011's. Then Air Transat, Royal Airlines and Worldways started flying them. God bless the Charter airlines for keeping the L1011 in the air so long.

Air Transat have retired theirs now and we no longer see them at YYZ.

Their is no sight like the sight of a L1011 with its button nose stuck up in the air on approach

Happy Birthday

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2005-11-17 17:02:57 and read 6728 times.

Quoting Glidepath73 (Reply 39):
How many fatal accident's had the Tristar?

three that I can think of - none of which were design faults


1/ EA at MIA - I believe crew literally flew the a/c into the Everglades while they were all trying to work out whether a gear warning indicator was faulty - nobody was paying attention to what the a/c was doing - this was the first widebody crash .

2/ SV at JED ( I think ?) Hajj flight I think with an onboard blaze caused by a cooking gas cylinder - really sad thing was that they got the a/c down safely - but all 300 people died overcome by fumes before evacuation

3/ DL at DFW which I think was microburst / windshear ?

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2005-11-17 17:11:12 and read 6675 times.

Still my favorite airliner to this day. Does anyone remember the electric lifters (for lack of a better term) they had in the closets that would suck garment bags up into them and thus make more room for other bags below the hanging ones? That was cool.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
they were like hen's teeth in my part of the world

Ok, you're confusing me. The name says Kiwi, the flag says Belgium, but the hen's teeth line says southern hillbilly (no offense!) I haven't heard that one in a long time. Too many damn Yankees moving south over here.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2005-11-17 17:30:03 and read 6555 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 43):
k, you're confusing me. The name says Kiwi, the flag says Belgium, but the hen's teeth line says southern hillbilly (no offense!) I haven't heard that one in a long time.

Hi DeltaGator

Name is Kiwi because I am one
Flag says Belgium because I live in Brussels
Hen's teeth - now that's interesting - I always assumed that was a Scottish saying ( My parents are Scots) - then again it still could be - all those feuding hillbilly McCoys must have started out in Scotland to have that "Mc"

( no offense intended to any McCoys living or dead / 5 or 6 fingered )

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: FlyGuyClt
Posted 2005-11-17 18:19:34 and read 6500 times.

My first L-1011 Flight was on Delta Air Lines in November of 1982 with my father. We had just come in from CLE to ATL. Got on the connection flight to MIA and got on this monster of an aircraft. I was hooked by aviation at that moment. Over the years and many different airline employer's later. I did get to work the L-1011 for a couple of months. What a great airplane. I really don't think anything can compare today. In 19 years I still enjoy aviation, its people, and all the good and bad there is. I do miss the roar of the L-1011 on the field. You always knew when it was around.

Safe Flying Down Memory Lane  




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Photo © Sunbird Photos by Don Boyd



[Edited 2005-11-17 18:20:32]

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2005-11-17 18:21:19 and read 6495 times.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 44):
I always assumed that was a Scottish saying

Very well could be. One of the "rumorfacts" beind the Rebel Yell of southern soldiers during the War Between the States is that is came from the Scotch descendants hooting and hollering kind of like the Braveheart movie. I'm betting a lot of those sayings have carried over into everyday Southern speak. My favorite has to be "He is nuttier than squirrel poop."

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2005-11-17 20:13:55 and read 6421 times.

In my life, I was on L-1011's at least 3 times, on TWA (domestic EWR-PHX, PHX-STL), and International with TWA JFK- (AMS or LHR) and ATA Milan-Malpensa-JFK (charter-1985). One think I recall of them is that they tended to be a bit 'looser' and more 'rattle' feel/noise than other widebodies of the time. Still, they were an excellent a/c for their time and with a few of them still flying, especially with ATA (most of them ex-DL). Could you believe an L-1011 for LGA-ORD? Hell, a 767, would have trouble with that today! Just one more amazing preformance for the L-1011.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: SparkingWave
Posted 2005-11-17 20:37:01 and read 6394 times.

I miss the L1011 terribly.

I flew on the Delta L1011 between ATL and LGW in 1988. I also flew on it between ATL and ORY in 1991, and from SFO to HNL and OGG in 1992. I remember the dolphin nose and the S-shaped tail. The plane I was on had bins in the middle, so I missed out on the cavernous ceilings that existed on other aircraft. But it still was higher than inside the 747s I also flew during that time.

I remember reading that when Delta compared the L1011 and the DC-10, one of the things they liked about the Tristar was its "plug-in" doors; when the doors were closed, Lockheed took advantage of the pressurization inside the aircraft and designed the doors in such a way that they couldn't or wouldn't accidently open in flight, unlike the DC-10.

I remember thinking how beautiful the Delta L1011 looked, as well as the designs of TWA and Pan Am.

Tristar, my star. I'm glad I got to fly you when I did. Thanks for the beautiful memories inflight to some of the nicest places in the world.

SparkingWave

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2005-11-17 20:51:23 and read 6380 times.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 47):
One think I recall of them is that they tended to be a bit 'looser' and more 'rattle' feel/noise than other widebodies of the time.

That's why I loved them so much. You knew you were on something powerful when you were taking off. The whole middle section of overhead compartments would shake and rattle as you thundered down the runway and it was great. When I think of all the places I flew on an L-1011 with Delta it amazes me. ORD, LAX, DFW, SLC, MCO, FLL, MIA, TPA, LGA, BOS just to name a few.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Zippyjet
Posted 2005-11-17 21:15:07 and read 6346 times.

Very eloquent thread start! When I get a technical kink worked out, I hope to add you to my respected user's list! Don't forget, the L1011 was the venerable flagship fleet of Eastern and bore the widget Delta!
Some say Eastern's choice of the L1011 over the 747 or DC-10 was a poor choice. I disagree! An excellant plane that should of would of and could of! It's sad generation X Y and I guess Z will never get to experience a brand new Lockheed commercial bird. Lockheed had in my opinion, the hottest looking prototypes of SST birds (swing wings). Lockheed had quality behind them. Another tragedy I can chalk up to the 70's. Had Lockheed continued, chances are, they would have come up with an L10 N.G. that would have probably whipped the MD 11 back to the gate. And, if Lockheed was still in the picture, we'd be probably looking at an HSCT within the next 5 to 10 years!

Happy 35 to you L1011. At BWI, I get to hear the hum and distinct rumble of ATA Lockheed birds every day. I've come within a heartbeat of flying on L10's. This was back in the days of Eastern. Flight 173 BWI-MIA and 172 MIA-BWI during the "season" through Easter Passover flew L10's and generation 1 A-300's. My itinerary was one week after they switched them back to 727's. In hindsight, I still feel blessed to ride the 727 many a time including 1980!
Of course, now, I'm partial to my company's 770724317's and 737-7's.  airplane 

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Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Zippyjet
Posted 2005-11-17 21:20:09 and read 6331 times.



Ok so this was a Boeing 2707 SST prototype but this does more for me than delta winged birds.



http://history.nasa.gov/SP-367/fig104.jpg

Didn't get the chance in my above post to share these.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: MD80Nut
Posted 2005-11-17 22:48:23 and read 6255 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
Beautiful, classic well engineered aircraft, way ahead of it's time and far superior to the DC10.

Then why are there so few L-1011s being converted to freighters compared to the DC-10? The fact is that the DC-10 is a better aircraft from an operational point of view. They can haul more payload, have greater range and are more reliable in their old age than the L-1011. I believe we'll be seeing DC-10s earning their keep long after the last commercial L-1011 is retired.

The same thing happened with the Constellation vs. the DC-6. The Connie has long since been retired from the ranks of working airplanes while there are DC-6s around the world still earning their keep.

Don't get me wrong, I loved flying in the L-1011. Flew them a lot with Delta and Eastern and it's always been a favorite of mine. I'll always consider it one of the great airplanes in commercial aviation history.

Cheers, Ralph

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tri
Username: RedDragon
Posted 2005-11-17 23:22:00 and read 6215 times.

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 48):
I remember reading that when Delta compared the L1011 and the DC-10, one of the things they liked about the Tristar was its "plug-in" doors; when the doors were closed, Lockheed took advantage of the pressurization inside the aircraft and designed the doors in such a way that they couldn't or wouldn't accidently open in flight, unlike the DC-10.

Hmm. As far as I'm aware, the DC-10 doors are just as much of a plug-type as the TriStar ones. In both they slide upwards above the ceiling, after moving inward slightly. They're both larger than the apertures.

Could you be mistaking the cabin doors with those for the hold? The DC-10 suffered multiple instances of the bulk hold door opening in-flight, leading to many casualities and a grounding. As far as I can see from the photo below, the forward hold door on the TriStar appears to open outward as well (note what looks like a piano hinge at the top), but I could be mistaken - although this would, of course, cause havoc in terms of usable space inside the door.

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Rich

[Edited 2005-11-17 23:22:51]

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-18 05:11:01 and read 6088 times.

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 53):
As far as I can see from the photo below, the forward hold door on the TriStar appears to open outward as well (note what looks like a piano hinge at the top), but I could be mistaken - although this would, of course, cause havoc in terms of usable space inside the door.

The L-1011 used two different type of forward cargo doors. The original door called C-1 was used on the majority of the L-1011-1, -100, and -200's. It is a plug type door which opened outward. Some of the -100 and -200's and all of the -500's had what was called the C-1A door which was larger. It was hinged at the top and locked with a series of latches along the bottom. The mid (C-2) and aft (C-3) cargo doors were the same on all models and were both plug type. However, Pan Am and LTU L-1011-500's only had two cargo doors, they had the C-3 door deleted and loaded bulk cargo through the C-2 door.

The outward opening plug type doors were lowered almost to the closed position, they then dropped vertically behind stops that held the door in place. Opening reversed the steps the door moved vertically, to clear the stops, then up to the full open position.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2005-11-18 05:22:57 and read 6077 times.

The L1011 was the first wide body I ever flew on. It was March, 1988. DL, ATL-MCO, the last flight of the evening, around 11:30pm. My dad still has the whole takeoff on tape. I miss that plane. I eventually got to fly on 5 L10 flights, two of which on the -1 series, and the other three on the -500's. A great ride every time. The L10 is such a graceful aircraft...graceful, powerful, and huge!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Falcon84
Posted 2005-11-18 05:24:10 and read 6074 times.

edited.....................

[Edited 2005-11-18 05:25:35]

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: KiwiinOz
Posted 2005-11-18 05:27:09 and read 6064 times.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Sadly I never flew on one ( they were like hen's teeth in my part of the world )

Good point. Has a Tristar ever been to NZ? Or any regular services to Australia?

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Warreng24
Posted 2005-11-18 05:34:03 and read 6057 times.

I've never been able to ride one of these beautiful birds...

I've noticed in the pictures that there's no overhead bins in the center row. Was this true of all TriStars? Were the bins over the side rows larger to make up for the lack of bin space?

Maybe this was one of the factors in the demise of the TriStar, lack of bin space for passenger's kitchen sinks?

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2005-11-18 07:19:33 and read 6019 times.

I've only flown an L1011 once--an ex-Pan Am L1011-500 flying for UA in 1986 from NRT to SFO. It was pretty nice flight, as I remember correctly.  Smile

There are two things I remember about the L1011 watching the planes at SFO: 1) the big cloud of oil smoke when the engines first start up (they'll never approve that practice now with today's air pollution laws!) and 2) the very distinctive mooing whine of the center engine as it powers up to full power on takeoff at the end of Runway 1R.

I think the biggest mistake Lockheed did with the L1011 was it single-supplier reliance on Rolls-Royce for the engine. If Lockheed designed the L1011 so it accepted the Pratt & Whitney JT9D or the General Electric CF6, the company would have avoided the fiasco of the Rolls-Royce bankruptcy that nearly did in Lockheed.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: L1011dal
Posted 2005-11-18 07:48:14 and read 6004 times.

If you haven't seen the Delta retirement website yet it's worth visiting at http://www.L1011.homestead.com

Lot of info. on the L1011 and even an airline trying to get the L1011's back into the air.

Happy 35 years - L1011!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Kiwiandrew
Posted 2005-11-18 08:42:19 and read 5989 times.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 57):
Good point. Has a Tristar ever been to NZ? Or any regular services to Australia?

HA used to fly them HNL-PPG-AKL for a short while - other than that , so far as I know , all L-1011 visits to NZ were charters / heads of state etc . as far as tri-jets go this was very much DC-10 territory

NZ / CO / AA / CP / KE / TG / MH / JL / GA and no doubt a few others who I have forgotten all at sometime or another operated the DC-10 to AKL on a scheduled basis

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: RoseFlyer
Posted 2005-11-18 20:17:30 and read 5829 times.

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 58):
I've noticed in the pictures that there's no overhead bins in the center row. Was this true of all TriStars? Were the bins over the side rows larger to make up for the lack of bin space?

Maybe this was one of the factors in the demise of the TriStar, lack of bin space for passenger's kitchen sinks?

Overhead bins in the center section was a customer option I believe. Back in the 70s, passengers carried fewer things on board airplanes. Overhead bins were usually only for coats, hats, jackets, purses and briefcases and was little more than a hat rack. Overhead bin space was not at a premium like it is today. People now carry on suitcases so they can avoid the hassles of checking in luggage like extra time at baggage claim, lost luggage possibilities, inability to stand by for earlier flights, etc. I don't think the bins were a selling issue for the Tristar.

On another note I would like to say that I am surprised at the amount of popularity that the Tristar still has. It seems like it has a special place in aviation in many of us Anetters. Thank you everyone for having a good thread about it and for once strating a civilized MD versus L debate.

[Edited 2005-11-18 20:32:56]

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: RedDragon
Posted 2005-11-18 20:32:37 and read 5818 times.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 54):
The L-1011 used two different type of forward cargo doors...

Cheers, 474218. Plug-type outward-opening hold doors, interesting. Other aircraft types don't generally have plug hold doors do they?

I can't quite imagine the door dropping vertically to close though (due to the door being on the bottom half of the fuselage) - wouldn't it be raised?

Rich  Smile

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 474218
Posted 2005-11-19 02:26:25 and read 5709 times.

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 63):
Cheers, 474218. Plug-type outward-opening hold doors, interesting. Other aircraft types don't generally have plug hold doors do they?

I can't quite imagine the door dropping vertically to close though (due to the door being on the bottom half of the fuselage) - wouldn't it be raised?

Rich,
Maybe this will help. After lowering the door into the door opening, the door latching system forces the door downward so that the door mounted pressure and ditching stops straddle the fixed fuselage pressure stops. This downward motion is required to clear the fixed stops, which create the plug door. When the door is opened the first step is to raise the door so it clears the stops then swings up out of the way.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2005-11-19 02:41:32 and read 5696 times.

So does anyone know what they're doing with the 2 DL L's in VCV ? I'de like to see them fly again ,not get scrapped.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Fpofllflyboi
Posted 2005-11-19 03:46:36 and read 5660 times.

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 50):
Some say Eastern's choice of the L1011 over the 747 or DC-10 was a poor choice. I disagree! An excellant plane that should of would of and could of!

I agree with your disagreement. When I think of the L1011, I think Eastern. My first flight on an L10 was a short hop from FPO to MIA as a kid in the 80's. That short flight alone got me hooked on aviation. HAPPY BIRTHDAY L1011 !!!

[Edited 2005-11-19 03:48:52]

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: 757223
Posted 2005-11-19 03:58:19 and read 5639 times.

Not only was the -1011 well engineered, it was very well built. I remember seeing a show on the Everglades crash and hearing about how will the plane crashed. Indeed, it was a very solid aircraft.

Another thing I loved about the plane was the aft lavatories. If memory serves me correctly, there were several lavatories (5) in an almost semi-circular pattern in the back.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: HAWK21M
Posted 2005-11-19 04:24:51 and read 5617 times.

Look wise def better for the Centre Engined shape compared to the Straight thry on the DC10.
regds
MEL

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: StealthZ
Posted 2005-11-19 12:27:59 and read 5545 times.

Have never flown in a Tristar, had never even photographed one until this surprise visitor, appropriatly on November 16th 2005!!

http://www.pbase.com/chrisg/image/52336575.jpg

Cheers

Chris

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: OB1783P
Posted 2005-11-19 16:36:58 and read 5476 times.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
Beautiful, classic well engineered aircraft, way ahead of it's time and far superior to the DC10.



Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 52):
The fact is that the DC-10 is a better aircraft from an operational point of view .../... we'll be seeing DC-10s earning their keep long after the last commercial L-1011 is retired.

Both statements CAN be right. Remember the Betamax video format. Everyone agreed it was a better format, yet the VHS was more widely licensed, and then universally adopted. Comparably, "One Day at a Time," a truly abysmal TV comedy, had a long run thanks to "The Jeffersons" in the previous slot.

If the Tristar had been part of a tradition (imagine, L-1009 a quadrijet, L-1010 a small twin, for instance), the Tristar would have had a longer useful life.

The Tristar was a wondeful plane. I have many good memories in 2/3 full TWA 1011s from JFK to SFO (no wonder we did not miss the center overhead luggage bins). But the day Lockheed pulled the plug, it meant that parts and support would eventually become scarce.

The DC-10 basically failed economically as well, although more slowly. There was no market for two big tri-jets to be very successful before the appearance of large twins. The decision to let both projects come to fruition was one of the most dramatic moments in the history of the industry.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: MD80Nut
Posted 2005-11-19 18:23:58 and read 5416 times.

Quoting OB1783P (Reply 70):
There was no market for two big tri-jets to be very successful before the appearance of large twins.

I think you're right there, though I wonder how much better the DC-10 might have sold if it hadn't suffered the Turkish and American Airlines crashes. Or the L-1011 with the well known problems with Roll Royce. Nevertheless, once widebody twins took over the fate of the tri-jets was sealed.

Quoting OB1783P (Reply 70):
If the Tristar had been part of a tradition (imagine, L-1009 a quadrijet, L-1010 a small twin, for instance), the Tristar would have had a longer useful life.

In 1971 Mad Dog engineers suggested a DC-10 twin that would have had anywhere from 70% to 90% commonality with the tri-jet. I have no doubt twin versions of the DC-10 and L-1011 would have increased their appeal to airlines.

Cheers, Ralph

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Indio66
Posted 2005-11-19 19:21:16 and read 5380 times.

Quoting 757223 (Reply 67):
Another thing I loved about the plane was the aft lavatories. If memory serves me correctly, there were several lavatories (5) in an almost semi-circular pattern in the back.

Yes indeed they were. I remember flying on an Air Canada L10-11 Xmas eve 1985 from Montreal to CDG, first wide body and first trip to Europe.

Great plane and a better trip.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: CalAir
Posted 2005-11-20 01:22:35 and read 5279 times.

Quoting 757223 (Reply 67):
Another thing I loved about the plane was the aft lavatories. If memory serves me correctly, there were several lavatories (5) in an almost semi-circular pattern in the back.

Yep indeed it did, fondly known amongst the Caledonian crew as "penny lane".
I have heard stories of tray surfing on those birds on positioning flights, they would race down each aisle and put a load of blankets and pillows by the toilets to cushion the end. They would ask the pilots to climb as fast as possible to pick up speed!!

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: SparkingWave
Posted 2005-11-24 18:50:29 and read 5063 times.

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 53):
Could you be mistaking the cabin doors with those for the hold?

It's possible that I might be mistaken, but the context of the writing strongly implied passenger doors and not cargo doors.

The source of my information comes from a book written about Delta Airlines in the late 1980s (can't remember the title) by a journalist. Besides the L1011 there was also coverage of the Delta "family" and even an incident where an L1011 wing spar almost separated from the aircraft during flight (but was unknown until after the aircraft landed and then went through a D-check).

~~SparkingWave

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: LHMARK
Posted 2005-11-24 19:10:32 and read 5044 times.

I spent a lot of time flying JFK-BRU and back on TWA TriStars. They were elegant, quiet, and hat plenty of lavatory space with the "orange wedge" arrangement in the back.

The TriStar was large enough to be impressive, yet small enough to be flyer-friendly. It needed more range, and unfortunately had to sacrifice passenger space to achieve that.

Some would say that flawed beauty is more attractive in the long run. In the case of the L1011, I tend to agree.

Topic: RE: Happy 35th Birthday To The Lockheed L-1011 Tristar
Username: Bmacleod
Posted 2005-11-24 19:33:05 and read 5019 times.

Even though AC managers though otherwise, the L-1011 was considered a favorite by most passengers.

I especially liked the L-1011-500....


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