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Topic: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-17 14:58:42 and read 6119 times.

Egyptair has announced the first stage of its plan to double their fleet. The airline is in talks with Airbus and Boeing for 12 new aircraft for delivery by 2010. Egyptair's Chairman Atef Abdel-Hamid said, "(Egyptair) is now studying how to provide the necessary financing for making a purchase contract.". There is no mention of aircraft type but if rumours are true this should be an interesting order.

In addition the airline is in talks to accelerate the delivery of its 12 B738s that were ordered earlier this year. The current contract sees the first B738 delivery in September 2006 with the last one arriving in 2009 but now the airline wants deliveries to be completed by 2007.

Horus

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Manni
Posted 2005-12-17 15:04:45 and read 6102 times.

Quoting Horus (Thread starter):
The airline is in talks with Airbus and Boeing for 12 new aircraft for delivery by 2010.


What sized aircraft are they looking to purchase?

Quoting Horus (Thread starter):
The current contract sees the first B738 delivery in September 2006 with the last one arriving in 2009 but now the airline wants deliveries to be completed by 2007.


Haha, another airline that must have been getting their inspiration from the QF deal.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2005-12-17 15:18:24 and read 6080 times.

Interesting news - I have heard that Egyptair does want to grow and become a bigger player in the region. There is a lot going on in the middle east at the moment, and Egyptair has probably determined that it must grow in size in order to survive and effectively compete with the quickly growing Gulf State carriers. Having airlines like Emirates, Eithad, Qatar and the others in your neighborhood cannot be comforting and a response is required.....that response seems to be that Egyptair will also grow in size and presence.

My guess is that Egyptair is shopping in the 787/A350 class of airliners - medium capacity airlines that can be used for high demand regional routes and lower demand long range services......but the delivery timeframe is going to be problematic when considering the EIS date for the A350 and the backlog of orders for the 787. If Egyptair is serious, this will be a very interesting order to watch.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Korg747
Posted 2005-12-17 16:54:52 and read 5977 times.

This order is definitly going to be unpredictable. Because both the 787 and the A350 can be introduced easly in Egyptair's fleet. We can also end up seeing more 772ER or A330s too.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: BoeingFever777
Posted 2005-12-17 17:52:45 and read 5911 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
What sized aircraft are they looking to purchase?

He stated he didn't know.

I know they firmed up 6/6 738's and still have (2) A330's on order.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2143107/6/#ID2143107
We all were shocked at this one, wonder what MS is up too now.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: B742
Posted 2005-12-17 18:08:53 and read 5894 times.

Could we see MS go for anything larger than the 772ER in the near future?

I guess MS will be looking for a replacement for their current 3 342's, maybe more 332's or even A350's/787's! Maybe also some additional 772ER's to add to the current fleet of 5 777-200ER's!

Why did MS go for newer 738's insted of opting for additonal 320's?

It seems we will see all of the 737 Classics go as they are all going to CanJet airlines! (4x 735's)

Rob!  wave 

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: FCKC
Posted 2005-12-17 19:55:28 and read 5821 times.

If they need a plane in the 787/A350 category , i see them ordering both types , as usual , to be 50-50 with the States and Europe.
We never know , since all is possible with MS !!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: MSYYZ
Posted 2005-12-19 17:39:11 and read 5665 times.

Egypt Air is very happy with their A330's and their B777's , my guess is more of them .

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-20 23:38:20 and read 5516 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
What sized aircraft are they looking to purchase?

Rumours suggest the order will be for widebodies.

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Haha, another airline that must have been getting their inspiration from the QF deal.

Sorry you lost me there (seriously)

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Interesting news - I have heard that Egyptair does want to grow and become a bigger player in the region

Remaining stagnate is the worst thing an airline can do especially one located in a region with fierce competition. With MS's expansion plans, the new terminal and upgrades at CAI along with the likely introduction of an open sky policy at Egypt in the coming years it is looking positive. The tourist market and large expat community will always provide a steady stream of passengers into the country but MS could take advantage of Egypt's geographic location to offer a hub system. Having said that the airline will need to overhaul their inflight services (as expected) to compete with rivals.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 4):
I know they firmed up 6/6 738's and still have (2) A330's on order.

Also 4 A320s for subsidiary Air Cairo arrive next year as well as a single AB6F. There are talks of another four A320s arriving in 2006.

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Could we see MS go for anything larger than the 772ER in the near future?

MS doesn't really need an aircraft much larger than the 319 seater B772 which is well suited to their long haul and short haul high density markets. From a personal point of view I'd like to see the B773ER as it would offer the extra capacity required for LHR, JFK, JED and KWI but that is extremely unlikely. And you can forget about the A380/B748.

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
I guess MS will be looking for a replacement for their current 3 342's, maybe more 332's or even A350's/787's! Maybe also some additional 772ER's to add to the current fleet of 5 777-200ER's!

The A342s were only delivered in 96/97 and are perfectly suited to the long thin routes to NRT and KIX. In addition they offer the largest C class of any aircraft in the fleet which makes it well suited to routes to KSA and the Gulf states.

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Why did MS go for newer 738's insted of opting for additonal 320's?

That will remain a mystery. Some have suggested it was due to Boeing offering a better deal, others have said the B738 offered better economics on the sectors the airline would use them on, while others have put it down to politics. i think it's a mixture of all three. MS will join a long list of airlines operating a mixed short-haul fleet including TK, SK, NH, OS, AT, etc


Horus

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Manni
Posted 2005-12-21 01:36:23 and read 5456 times.

Quoting Horus (Reply 8):
Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Haha, another airline that must have been getting their inspiration from the QF deal.

Sorry you lost me there (seriously)

After Qantas reached a deal in wich they got a very sharp price and early delivery slots, Air India announced that they might renegotiating their contract. Now MS is demanding earlier delivery of their aircraft ordered. Sort of "If you can bend over for them, you should bend over for me too", mentality.

PS, Yes, I know, it's probaply unrelated, but it just looked related, judging by the timing.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: FriendlySkies
Posted 2005-12-21 19:31:24 and read 5270 times.

I smell another 787 order...

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2005-12-21 19:38:15 and read 5246 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Haha, another airline that must have been getting their inspiration from the QF deal.

I think the more significant lesson from the QF deal is the value of placing one large order rather than many small orders. MS recently announced that they would be ordering a total of about 40 aircraft. It's probably not a wise move to be ordering them in tranches.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-22 20:58:12 and read 5142 times.

Thanks for the explanation Manni. I've been busy lately so haven't spent that much time on A.net for the latest news.

BTW, Egyptair have recieved their 6th and penultimate A330-200 last week

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
I think the more significant lesson from the QF deal is the value of placing one large order rather than many small orders. MS recently announced that they would be ordering a total of about 40 aircraft. It's probably not a wise move to be ordering them in tranches.

Zvezda, there are two points to bear in mind. First Egyptair's approach has always been cautious, or dare I say over-cautious, when it comes to aircraft orders. It's worth pointing out that the recent order for 12 B738s was the largest order in the airline's history in terms of aircraft numbers. The second and probably the real underlying reason is financing. Even though the airline is profitable and despite the Egyptian pound appreciating in value by 8% against the US$ in 2005, placing a multi-million dollar aircraft order is still a huge burden for such an airline. Also the airline policy is to purchase rather than lease aircraft though the situation with the 2003-delivered A320s is unique.

Horus

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: CaptinTuT
Posted 2005-12-22 21:49:11 and read 5096 times.

That's a Very good news, seems to me they really going in the expansions so fast, since MS reorganized its routes and adding new routes according to the market needs in a reasonable way, they really started making profit. best of luck MS

Quoting Horus (Reply 8):
MS doesn't really need an aircraft much larger than the 319 seater B772 which is well suited to their long haul and short haul high density markets. From a personal point of view I'd like to see the B773ER as it would offer the extra capacity required for LHR, JFK, JED and KWI but that is extremely unlikely. And you can forget about the A380/B748.

I do agree with that B773 would really fit their needs, I also would like to see A346 on their fleet that would be nice and I think they can fit this ones in to the same routs that you mentioned above.

but my personal bet would go to B772 or A330 or A340 in other words wide-bodied, and I believe they will stay with the same types of aircrafts they have.


Regards
TuT

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-22 22:36:49 and read 5057 times.

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 13):
adding new routes according to the market needs in a reasonable way

Unfortunately in the past the airline seemed to pride itself on serving as many destination as possible. For example I can't see how destinations like HRE, MNL, KHI, etc would of been susainable let alone profitable. Since the 14 routes were terminated in March/April 2004 only 2 routes have been launched, PFO and PEK (though EBB was bought back). There has been talk about IAH, HKG, MEL, SYD, etc joining the network and as much as I'd like to see MS flying there if these routes are not high yielding (not just profitable) then I hope the airline does not touch them with a barge pole...

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 13):
I do agree with that B773 would really fit their needs, I also would like to see A346 on their fleet that would be nice and I think they can fit this ones in to the same routs that you mentioned above.

The B773ER yes, but the A346 no (solely from an economic point of view).

Quoting CaptinTuT (Reply 13):
but my personal bet would go to B772 or A330 or A340 in other words wide-bodied, and I believe they will stay with the same types of aircrafts they have.

I doubt further orders will be made for the A340. I see Boeing being the forerunner in this contest (based on my point of view only).

Horus

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: MSYYZ
Posted 2005-12-22 22:47:01 and read 5039 times.

Horus , I know that MS got their 2 A321's back from Air Cairo so now they have 4 A321's . And I read somewhere that they are planning to keep their old B735's even after receiving the new B738's , is that true ?

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: CaptinTuT
Posted 2005-12-22 22:59:58 and read 5017 times.

Quoting Horus (Reply 14):
but the A346 no

that's why i said i would like to see but i do agree with you they not going to have any

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: AirxLiban
Posted 2005-12-22 23:09:48 and read 4994 times.

I don't see why they should go for two aircraft types that compete in the same field. They'll probably go for one or the other and at the moment there doesn't seem to be much proof of either one.

I think that the only reason that they run 777s alongside A340s is that the Government of Egypt ordered A340s for the Presidential fleet, because the president must always fly with four engines, and so they decided to order some for Egyptair as well. Horus or someone else correct me if I am wrong.

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-22 23:11:19 and read 4994 times.

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 15):
Horus , I know that MS got their 2 A321's back from Air Cairo so now they have 4 A321's . And I read somewhere that they are planning to keep their old B735's even after receiving the new B738's , is that true ?

No MS have only recieved a single A321 back from Air Cairo (SU-GBW) and the other (SU-GBV) is still with the charter subsidiary. The former was returned last month when SU-GCL (ex-Shourouk Air machine SU-RAA) was delivered to Air Cairo. SU-GBV will go back to MS next summer when the new A320s start arriving (they will arrive in 6 month intervals).

SU-GBW in Air Cairo colours

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Photo © Andreas Heilmann



and more recently devoid of marking, ready to be repainted in MS's c/s

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Photo © Johannes Ossenberg



Air Cairo's current fleet: A321 (SU-GBV) and A320 (SU-GCL)

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Photo © Giovanni Verbeeck
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Photo © Harri Koskinen



I would like to add that the A321s seem far more prolific in MS's European timetable (e.g. AMS, MAD, BRU) this season (winter 05/06) compared to summer 05.


As for the B735s, no one (even MS officials/pilots) really know the fate of the baby boeings. I for one hope they keep them due to their suitability in the domestic market. The A320/B738 represents roughly a 50% increase in capacity compared to the B735 so it isn't an ideal replacement. There were talks that the last 3 would join the single B735 in the 4D fleet but nothing ever came of it. With the latest talk of Air Cairo ordering turboprops 'in the future' to take over MS's domestic services, it's very likely the B735 will continue to fly in MS colours for at least another 2 years.

Horus

Topic: RE: Egyptair In Talks With A And B For 12 Aircraft
Username: Horus
Posted 2005-12-23 21:14:24 and read 4880 times.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 17):
I think that the only reason that they run 777s alongside A340s is that the Government of Egypt ordered A340s for the Presidential fleet, because the president must always fly with four engines, and so they decided to order some for Egyptair as well. Horus or someone else correct me if I am wrong.

The A340 and B777 were purchased to serve 2 different long haul markets. The B777 was to be used on high density routes to LHR, JFK and originally ORY while the A340 was to be used on thinner routes to Japan and Australia.

The A340 order had little to do with the Government A340. Egyptair had leased 2 A343s from GF between 1995 and 1997 to test their suitability to their operations. As for the B777s the airline had originally ordered 3 in 1995, and then made a follow-up order for a further 2 which were delivered in 2001.

Horus


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