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Topic: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: DIA
Posted 2006-01-17 00:32:17 and read 11303 times.

Spoke with my neighbor just this weekend. He is a UPS 741/2 pilot (lives in Denver, but based out of the hub out east!)(Long commute Wink). I struck up a great little conversation concerning UPS's next a/c purchases and acquisitions:

After discussing the recent UPS order for about a dozen new 744s from Boeing...he told me UPS is planning on buying about twelve more existing 744s and converting them to cargo config....some of these are in the desert currently.

He also told me that UPS will be acquiring more MD-11s, although he did not supply me with a figure of how many. I did ask how UPS could do this since (as I believed) that all MD-11s are basically spoken for
(because they are a hot commodity for freight airlines)...he told me UPS could acquire more because they can pay cash for them, unlike many other companies. I think UPS is making about $3 billion a quarter, so I can believe him on that I guess.

Anyhow, he has proven himself a good source (for UPS airline/airliner info) for me in the past, in terms of reliable info...so either roll with it or be a skeptic...that's up to you...just thought I'd let you know about these interesting nuggets of info.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Flyf15
Posted 2006-01-17 00:43:42 and read 11241 times.

Wow, that will end up to be quite an impressive widebody fleet.

A300
A380
B747-100/200/400 (although, surely, the 100/200s will be retired)
B767-300
MD-11

With sizable number of each...

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Ghost77
Posted 2006-01-17 00:48:30 and read 11206 times.

And as more M11's make it to the fleet sure some DC10s will be replaced by those new.

ghost77 APM

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: MD90fan
Posted 2006-01-17 01:08:36 and read 11089 times.

An ex. Air Namibia bird is being converted to freighter fro UPS at SIN right now  tombstone 

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: AKelley728
Posted 2006-01-17 01:09:10 and read 11082 times.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 2):
And as more M11's make it to the fleet sure some DC10s will be replaced by those new.

Uhh, UPS does not operate DC10s. Are you thinking of UPS DC8s? If you are, those aren't going anywhere. Are you thinking of Fedex and their DC10s? If so, they aren't going anywhere either, especially since Fedex is converting a number of them to MD10s.

Douglas aircraft are built to last!

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-17 01:09:11 and read 11082 times.

He is correct about the MD11s, insofar as UPS bought at least 4 and possibly 5 of the MD11s that were on lease to DL, and on whose leases DL had still been paying a pretty penny even though they were parked (and of which 3 were subleased to World Airways). When DL rejected the way-above-market leases in bankruptcy court, the lessors were forced to find a market-rate purchaser or lessee. They ended up selling at least 4 to UPS. Apparently, the plan is for World to fly their 3 for some period of time, the outer limit of that period being the date that each can go in for conversion. Apparently, there are very few slots available at the places that can do the conversion, so they will be wfu and converted in an orderly manner over the next few years. That is basically the case with the 747-400BCF line (and the IAI 744SF line) as well.

A caution: air cargo is a very cyclical business. There are already some rumblings that higher oil prices (actually higher energy prices overall, as higher oil means a higher competitive market rate for coal, even if it is plentiful) and higher interest rates are having a braking effect on growth in Asia, and "anticipated" (i.e. wishful thinking as to) air cargo growth rates are probably way overstated.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Dalb777
Posted 2006-01-17 01:19:09 and read 11017 times.

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 4):
If so, they aren't going anywhere either, especially since Fedex is converting a number of them to MD10s.

What exactly is an MD10? Is it a DC10 upgraded to MD11 characteristics?

Also, does UPS operate any other narrowbodies besides the 727, 757, and DC-8?

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-17 01:25:41 and read 10982 times.

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 4):
A caution: air cargo is a very cyclical business. There are already some rumblings that higher oil prices (actually higher energy prices overall, as higher oil means a higher competitive market rate for coal, even if it is plentiful) and higher interest rates are having a braking effect on growth in Asia, and "anticipated" (i.e. wishful thinking as to) air cargo growth rates are probably way overstated.

Bingo....that's what's so striking about the business plans of the big THREE and the various scenarios for how the looming struggle over global express will be settled among UPS, FX and DHL.....Who can FIRST marry reliability and cost (none of which have done so) on a global scale emerges victorious.....

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Bennett123
Posted 2006-01-17 01:30:11 and read 10966 times.

I understand that an MD10 is a DC10 with MD11 cockpit.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: UnattendedBag
Posted 2006-01-17 01:34:55 and read 10920 times.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
After discussing the recent UPS order for about a dozen new 744s from Boeing...he told me UPS is planning on buying about twelve more existing 744s and converting them to cargo config

I spoke with a UPS DC-8 pilot about a month ago and he said the same thing.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Boeing Nut
Posted 2006-01-17 02:04:24 and read 10800 times.

Makes me wonder why they don't go for the 747-8F as well. Probably acquisitions costs.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-01-17 02:25:11 and read 10691 times.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 10):
Makes me wonder why they don't go for the 747-8F as well. Probably acquisitions costs.

acquisition costs are literally everything in the freight world. You don't necessarily need the latest and fanciest aircraft to do the job, and Boeing would have cut UPS a nice deal on the 744F.

It does not preclude the 748F from the future UPS fleet though. Maybe in the future when it's proven and there are secondhand examples about or deep discounts. The A380F is somewhat different as it offers huge volume, whereas the 747 is more about capability. UPS ships much more in the way of smaller items so the A380 fits nicely into their planning for trunk operations.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Luisca
Posted 2006-01-17 02:25:54 and read 10688 times.

and what about the 777-200LRF? It would be perfect for UPS and they have pushed boeing for years to make one.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Jeffry747
Posted 2006-01-17 02:27:12 and read 10682 times.

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 6):
Also, does UPS operate any other narrowbodies besides the 727, 757, and DC-8?

No they do not. Nor do they have any plans on getting any.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Jeffry747
Posted 2006-01-17 02:29:48 and read 10662 times.

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
recent UPS order for about a dozen new 744s from Boeing

Unless I missed something, the official order was for 8 744's, with the first delivery sometime next year.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-17 03:31:53 and read 10475 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 11):
...acquisition costs are literally everything in the freight world. You don't necessarily need the latest and fanciest aircraft to do the job...

that's one reason why UPS cash flow worldwide is about to take it on the chin at the hands of DHL......

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Ghost77
Posted 2006-01-17 03:43:35 and read 10422 times.

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 4):
Uhh, UPS does not operate DC10s.

Oh shit!   Don't know why I confuse UPS with FDX..!! Soo sorry. Well MD11s could certainly be a Dc8s replacement in the long term!!

Sure Douglas planes are built to laaaaaast forever!!! Ask NW or JR!!!

ghost77 APM

[Edited 2006-01-17 03:45:18]

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Lotsamiles
Posted 2006-01-17 04:12:09 and read 10312 times.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 11):
Makes me wonder why they don't go for the 747-8F as well. Probably acquisitions costs.

UPS has plans to make the 744F and 744SF into a 34 pallet configuration, matching the 747-8F. This can be done by loading a transverse lane of pallets next to a longitudinal lane of pallets, as is being done on the FDX/UPS A380F's on the main deck. This nullifies most of the 747-8F advantage, with the exception of fuel burn, of course. Given equal pallet postions and UPS's package density, they likely don't need the additional payload offered by the 747-8F.

If UPS goes with 744SF's to supplement the 744F's when the slots become available, they will be able to acquire similar aircraft for their needs for a fraction of the cost.

Regards,
Lotsamiles

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Candid76
Posted 2006-01-17 11:59:14 and read 9976 times.

Why have UPS retired their 721s? Didn't they spend significant sums putting new engines on them so they would last longer than original spec 721s (which they haven't in many cases, FedEx included)? I would have thought they could find uses for these in other parts of the world not just in the US, rather than parting them out in Roswell.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-17 12:38:46 and read 9920 times.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 18):
Why have UPS retired their 721s? Didn't they spend significant sums putting new engines on them

The 727-100QFs were flying around Christmas 2005, maybe just for the rush, but they were definitely flying. They were indeed re-engined with great pride by UPS, which touted their reduced noise footprint at the time.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: MBJ2000
Posted 2006-01-17 12:54:22 and read 9872 times.

A little bit off-topic - but I'm new to this forum - why is the MD-11 so appealing to the freight airlines?

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
He also told me that UPS will be acquiring more MD-11s, although he did not supply me with a figure of how many. I did ask how UPS could do this since (as I believed) that all MD-11s are basically spoken for
(because they are a hot commodity for freight airlines)...he told me UPS could acquire more because they can pay cash for them, unlike many other companies. I think UPS is making about $3 billion a quarter, so I can believe him on that I guess.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2006-01-17 13:12:26 and read 9821 times.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
A300
A380
B747-100/200/400 (although, surely, the 100/200s will be retired)
B767-300
MD-11

guess you forgot the A380  Smile

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: MEA-707
Posted 2006-01-17 13:20:48 and read 9788 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 19):
The 727-100QFs were flying around Christmas 2005, maybe just for the rush, but they were definitely flying. They were indeed re-engined with great pride by UPS, which touted their reduced noise footprint at the time.

They fly with a handful but dozens of others have been wfu in the last 4 years. I thought it would be the perfect narrowbody for them with their quieter RR Tay engines and they'd fly them til at least 2015. Probably their performance was disappointing or the costs of a 3 man cockpit, or old 727s are more maintenance hogs then the DC-8s, can anyone ask their UPS friends for an inside view on what went wrong with the 727?

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: N328KF
Posted 2006-01-17 16:11:09 and read 9503 times.

Quoting Lotsamiles (Reply 17):
UPS has plans to make the 744F and 744SF into a 34 pallet configuration, matching the 747-8F. This can be done by loading a transverse lane of pallets next to a longitudinal lane of pallets, as is being done on the FDX/UPS A380F's on the main deck. This nullifies most of the 747-8F advantage, with the exception of fuel burn, of course. Given equal pallet postions and UPS's package density, they likely don't need the additional payload offered by the 747-8F.

So...uh...why couldn't you do this same arrangement on a 747-8F?

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Lotsamiles
Posted 2006-01-17 16:23:15 and read 9349 times.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 23):
So...uh...why couldn't you do this same arrangement on a 747-8F?

I suppose they could, likely UPS had this option in front of them and chose the 744F (and perhaps 744SF per accounts here). I also understand that Boeing did not want to make the change in ULD configuration and thus UPS will be doing it post-delivery using third parties.

Regards,
Lotsamiles

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: UAMAYBACH1239
Posted 2006-01-17 16:38:21 and read 9185 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):
A caution: air cargo is a very cyclical business. There are already some rumblings that higher oil prices (actually higher energy prices overall, as higher oil means a higher competitive

This is what puts UPS in the drivers seat, they hedge their fuel and pays cash for most if not all purchases, they move most parcels in the 48 states by railroad or truck, which balances the air cargo when and if it slows down.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: FlyCaledonian
Posted 2006-01-17 17:02:45 and read 8947 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 21):
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
A300
A380
B747-100/200/400 (although, surely, the 100/200s will be retired)
B767-300
MD-11

guess you forgot the A380

Think you'll find that if you look again you'll see the A380 in that list!

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: NASOCEANA
Posted 2006-01-17 17:11:47 and read 8854 times.

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 6):
What exactly is an MD10? Is it a DC10 upgraded to MD11 characteristics?

Yeap! They remove the Flight engineer to make it a two person cockpit.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Broke
Posted 2006-01-17 17:14:18 and read 8825 times.

UPS has orders for 8 747-400F's, currently operates 18 MD-11F's, has 3 MD-11's currently being modified to freighters, and has contacted for an additional 13 MD-11F conversions.
There are additional aircraft being planned, but this is the current committed number of aircraft.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Aogdesk
Posted 2006-01-17 17:41:13 and read 8578 times.

Quoting EyeLN (Reply 15):
that's one reason why UPS cash flow worldwide is about to take it on the chin at the hands of DHL......

Sounds like a DHL employee....

I'm amazed at the sheer number of DHL customers that are downright unhappy with their service. Seems as if they drop the ball a hell of a lot more than they deliver. Time will tell I guess...

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: DCrawley
Posted 2006-01-17 21:43:55 and read 6832 times.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 2):
And as more M11's make it to the fleet sure some DC10s will be replaced by those new.

Like said before, FX operates the DC10, MD10, and MD11.. and they aren't gettin' rid of any DC10's. I hear they're hiring for the right seat on the DC10 out of ANC..

-d

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-17 23:24:27 and read 6206 times.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 29):

I'm amazed at the sheer number of DHL customers that are downright unhappy with their service. Seems as if they drop the ball a hell of a lot more than they deliver.

Really? Hmmm...there were some hub integration problems, and the 11 new regional hubs (in addition to the current 12(?)) that are critical to improving reliability of its US operation are under construction or now open.....DHL may have dropped the ball on the TIMING of its excellent ad campaign that resulted in a surge of business in the 3rd & 4th quarter....But Folks aren't happy at all at the prices they pay at DHL and FX or they wouldn't have so readily switched providers....

DHL/America is another 12 months from getting all regional sorts operating and that'll help much (particularly with line-haul)...the Strategic advantage DHL gets from a more robust US operation is its ability to build off its superior position in the rest of the world.....America has been DHL's weak link for years....that's changing, and with it the express business in the US....Proof of how nasty the fight between the big three will become was unveiled in the last week with a UPS attack ad on DHL.....UPS has reason to worry.......DHL is driving this truck becuase of its price advantage......

[Edited 2006-01-17 23:40:19]

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Geg2rap
Posted 2006-01-17 23:48:05 and read 6051 times.

Quoting EyeLN (Reply 31):
Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 29):

I'm amazed at the sheer number of DHL customers that are downright unhappy with their service. Seems as if they drop the ball a hell of a lot more than they deliver.

DHL's biggest problem is the contracting of all deliveries. For example, I live in the twin cities. Palm sent me a warranty exchange next day last Thursday for delivery on Friday, I called DHL today and got the local delivery company. They informed me they are running behind and would be able to deliver it on Thursday of this week, if I needed it sooner to come and pick it up.
UPS has what to worry about? UPS has it's imperfection but their pilots could go on strike and I would still get it before DHL would come knocking.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2006-01-18 00:17:12 and read 5870 times.

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 20):
A little bit off-topic - but I'm new to this forum - why is the MD-11 so appealing to the freight airlines?

Massive 91t uplift and good range, or great range at parcel density.

N

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: FX1816
Posted 2006-01-18 00:23:26 and read 5830 times.

What attack ad did UPS run??? If anyone has to worry though it would be FX. UPS is sooooooo far ahead of the competition but FX is just around the corner and we could easily beat on them, I know I used to work for FX fo 4 years but I saw the light and it was the yellow ASTAR 727 so now I work for DHL and I love it, its a real challenge to make this happen but believe me, in 5 years the roles in this 3 way game will change. Count on it!!!! Anyone from DHL, ABX Air, or ASTAR feel free to ring in with me on this!!!

I'M ON IT!!!!

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2006-01-18 01:05:38 and read 5613 times.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 18):
Why have UPS retired their 721s?



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 19):
The 727-100QFs were flying around Christmas 2005, maybe just for the rush, but they were definitely flying. They were indeed re-engined with great pride by UPS, which touted their reduced noise footprint at the time.

They had some B-727-100QFs come through DFW this week, including at least 1 last night. Perhaps they have an offer from smaller carriers (isn't USA Jet looking to replace their DC-9-15Fs?) for some of these?

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 21):
Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
A300
A380
B747-100/200/400 (although, surely, the 100/200s will be retired)
B767-300
MD-11

guess you forgot the A380

I'd be surprised if UPS ever takes delivery of the 10 A-380-800Fs they have on order.

Quoting Broke (Reply 28):
has 3 MD-11's currently being modified to freighters, and has contacted for an additional 13 MD-11F conversions.
There are additional aircraft being planned, but this is the current committed number of aircraft.

These 16 planned MD-11Fs, 8 new build B-747-400Fs, 10 new build A-380-800Fs, and up to 16 converted B-747-400SFs is a lot of airlift capability. That is 50 WBs, and doesn't include the 38 (?) canceled A-300-600Fs (for the A-380-800F order).

Here is a question for you, will the conversion of the B-747-400SFs replace the order for the A-380-800F? It would seem if you can get one type, you don't need the other.

I don't see any chance for the cancelation of the new build B-747-400Fs as it comes with the swing up nose cargo door. Was this airplane ordered for their military CRAF airlift capability? Normally a package cargo operation would not need a swing up nose cargo door.

I also see the DC-8-71F/73Fs staying around for a long time as these are also part of the CRAF fleet.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2006-01-18 01:07:29 and read 5608 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):
I'd be surprised if UPS ever takes delivery of the 10 A-380-800Fs they have on order.

How you figure? They just firmed up the order last month.

N

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-18 01:13:48 and read 5595 times.

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 34):
What attack ad did UPS run?

I can't find the streaming video but the thrust of the ad is this: UPS provides great service, but the other guy just has a new ad agency...it actually works, but it's also an alert to DHL that UPS is worried....I defer to your better judgment about the relative strength of FX vs UPS....

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: DIA
Posted 2006-01-18 01:17:05 and read 5585 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):
I'd be surprised if UPS ever takes delivery of the 10 A-380-800Fs they have on order.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):
...38 (?) canceled A-300-600Fs (for the A-380-800F order).

I did touch on the A380 with my neighbor. He mentioned that they (UPS) were able to cancel the A300 orders directly (or mostly) due to the fact that they would, instead, order A380s (in replace of the $ designated at first for the A300s...Airbus was more than happy to oblige.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-18 01:30:16 and read 5547 times.

Quoting Geg2rap (Reply 32):
DHL's biggest problem is the contracting of all deliveries.

Without a doubt this is ABSOLUTELY true.....and it gets turned around as new facilities come online or the game is over for DHL. My bet is that they pull it together driven in good measure by the growing intl business TO the U.S., in which DHL has distinct advantages over UPS and FX.

Any confirmation from anyone that ABX Air is poised to begin operating transatlantic flights on behalf of DHL?

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-18 01:36:24 and read 5532 times.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 29):


I'm amazed at the sheer number of DHL customers that are downright unhappy with their service. Seems as if they drop the ball a hell of a lot more than they deliver.

Well, as an actual DHL *customer*, I can say the following: (1) Never ever had a package misdelivered or delayed, ever; (2) their ground service is 1-2 days faster in the lanes I use than UPS, and if it looks like it's going to be late for some reason, it gets on a plane and gets there on time; (3) it's interesting how many Middle Americans have no idea what/who DHL is, but how many businesspeople do; (4) I am receiving dramatically more business express TO me by DHL than I used to. Can't say that FedEx or UPS have never been late, and UPS actually once lost a very, very important set of business documents and never ever found it. Of course, YMMV, but the only beef I have with DHL is that overnight letters often mysteriously get upgraded to one-pound "packages" out of New York (never anywhere else), and I have to watch the bill like a hawk as a result. This is a problem that was in place when it was Airborne, and continues today, but it has nothing to do with integration.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: DIA
Posted 2006-01-18 01:39:40 and read 5523 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 40):
Of course, YMMV

What do you mean Your Mileage May Vary...?

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-18 01:42:02 and read 5511 times.

Quoting Geg2rap (Reply 32):
They informed me they are running behind and would be able to deliver it on Thursday of this week, if I needed it sooner to come and pick it up.

Call 1-800-CALL-DHL and tell them that story, with the airbill number. I guarantee that you'll have it in your hands tomorrow.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-18 01:47:47 and read 5488 times.

Quoting DIA (Reply 41):
What do you mean Your Mileage May Vary...?

What I mean is that almost everyone my age has a story about how some delivery company dropped the ball. I hear people say that UPS Sucks because of one missed delivery in 20 years or that FedEx sucks because of one missed delivery in 20 years. I'm just saying that although DHL has never screwed up one of my deliveries, odds are that in the a.net community there will be people who have had a late delivery. Like the airline business, the overnight express business can't be perfect every single time, although they do pretty darn well.

What amazes me about DHL is the number of extremely-angry, almost-irrational employees and ex-employees that take every opportunity to hammer it into the ground. For example, that post about the "contract delivery" being late, were it made on any board but a.net, would have a 50% chance of being a fake post by a pissed-off ex-employee.

In addition, DHL (like FedEx Ground) is the target of a union organizing campaign designed to convert the independent-contractor system into a more expensive union-driver system, and the union acolytes take every opportunity to bash the company (like they do FedEx Ground) for allegely-crappy service from the independent contractors. Remember, it ain't a labor law violation for the union folks to lie -- it's only a violation for the employer to do so, which is why the union rhetoric often devolves to the "and they killed my puppy, too" level.

[Edited 2006-01-18 01:50:32]

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Lotsamiles
Posted 2006-01-18 01:53:09 and read 5476 times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 35):
I don't see any chance for the cancellation of the new build B-747-400Fs as it comes with the swing up nose cargo door. Was this airplane ordered for their military CRAF airlift capability? Normally a package cargo operation would not need a swing up nose cargo door.

I doubt UPS does much nose loading but it is nice to have the operational flexibility in they want to enter new markets or if the have the one or the other charter or special load. If I remember correctly about 5-6 years ago UPS was entertaining the idea of 744F's and actually asked Boeing to leave out or disable the nose door. However, the cost for this was greater than any savings that could be passed on to UPS.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-18 01:53:24 and read 5476 times.

Quoting DIA (Reply 41):
What do you mean Your Mileage May Vary...?

Your Experience (with DHL) May Be Different....

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: FX1816
Posted 2006-01-18 02:03:30 and read 5463 times.

Yeah if you ever have problems with packages being delivered just call the 800 number, it will get taken care of then. I have independant contractors here that do the deliveries but believe me I have made a lot of deliveries on my own, even on holidays such as January 1st I was out with one of my DHL trucks and making deliveries. I don't even have anything to do with the contractors either, I am the DHL Ramp Supervisor at ONT.

Also I am not too sure about ABX Air operating trans atlantic flights but if they were too I am sure that the flights would only initially go to the BRU hub and EMA hub.

DHL Express
I'M ON IT!!!!

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-18 02:10:58 and read 5445 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 43):
What amazes me about DHL is the number of extremely-angry, almost-irrational employees and ex-employees that take every opportunity to hammer it into the ground.

Is this in some measure the price DHL pays for consolidation and letting go of its ground network in favor of Airborne's?

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 43):
it ain't a labor law violation for the union folks to lie -- it's only a violation for the employer to do so, which is why the union rhetoric often devolves to the "and they killed my puppy, too"

A vitally important observation about a serious problem NOT easily remedied.....ABX AIR, for example (any airline will do), correctly CANNOT lie about its business intentions and forecasts because it has legal obligations and disclosure requirements to Wall Street shareholders...Use Congress or the state legislatures to curb UNION behavior with more strict libel and slander laws and you're backed up against the awesome protections of the FIRST AMENDMENT...hmmmmmm...this is a tough one........

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: WhiteHatter
Posted 2006-01-18 02:20:19 and read 5426 times.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 33):
Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 20):
A little bit off-topic - but I'm new to this forum - why is the MD-11 so appealing to the freight airlines?

Massive 91t uplift and good range, or great range at parcel density.

Plus it's a McDonnell Douglas. Built like a tank by the boys at LGB and built to last, just like all other DC Jets.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-18 02:53:02 and read 5380 times.

Quoting EyeLN (Reply 47):
Is this in some measure the price DHL pays for consolidation and letting go of its ground network in favor of Airborne's?

DHL's ground "network" couldn't compete with Airborne's in terms of potential volume, and given how hard it has been to integrate the sort, going with the bigger, established ground network was probably the right business decision.

The entire thing would have melted down if they had the same antipathy between delivery folks that they plainly have with the pilot groups, so getting rid of the smaller driver group made a lot of sense. Think of it: two airlines, which only have the responsibility of putting the containers on at point A and flying to designated point B, and did it basically fine for years before integration, have employees who never seem to miss the chance to piss all over the other guy for the stupidest stuff. The DHL guys are vastly pissier than the ABX people, based solely on the posts that I have seen. Example: Former DHL Airways folks get all high-and-mighty about w&b "problems", when the obviously-more-flexible-and-efficient loading system is to have the loadmaster do it at the aircraft with an on-board computer like ABX does. Yet we hear again and again and again how efficient and superior it would be to have a dedicated crew for *each aircraft* and a centralized w&b system like DHL used. Are they insane? No reason to go there. Instead, they could just say, "Hey, our system worked for us and it would have been nice if DHL had bothered to evaluate the difficulty of running two completely different loading protocols on the same ramp, or had had the foresight to ask us to convert to the far-more-efficient ABX system before the integration." It's okay that they use a less-efficient system, and the problems are plainly DHL's fault for not realizing the jams that it would cause at ILN. However, there's nothing wrong with using that system, because it worked for them, if the ramp had been properly prepared to deal with it. But, no, they come out and piss all over the ABX system is "inferior", which is just stupid. That's just snobbery, and it reflects poorly on the folks who act like that.

As to the "Union is allowed to lie" stuff, that's just the way it is. I don't object to it being that way; it's perceived as a statutory equalizer, and as you point out there are First Amendment considerations involved and unions at least in theory act for the benefit of their members (and where they don't, it's entirely fair to make it the responsibility of members to do something about that themselves, as they have the right and ability to do so). However, it's important for the public at large to understand that significant fact, and most people don't, because they were never taught that in school, and it's not part of anything that the media feels compelled to tell people. It's like the police being allowed to lie to a suspect, or politicians being allowed to raise rhetoric to the point of (or even beyond) untruth (like, say, quoting a parody to someone as if it were intended to be taken seriously). It's people's responsibility to inform themselves about the likely quality of the information that they are processing, for them to "consider the source". Do I think that people do that often enough? No. But it's absolutely their right not to, and that's okay.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: EyeLN
Posted 2006-01-18 03:33:10 and read 5321 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 49):
The DHL guys are vastly pissier than the ABX people, based solely on the posts that I have seen........That's just snobbery, and it reflects poorly on the folks who act like that.

Wjcandee, as usual, an extraordinary reply...Your investment in answering my questions is much appreciated. For those of us associated with ILN/Wilmington and having no connection with the business (but an abiding interest in aviation borne out of a geographic proximity to this former U.S. Air Force base), it was not lost on the townies how Airborne executives engineered a buy-out of their company that effectively protected every Airborne job (but not every DHL job), ground and air alike.....Lots of goodwill for DHL locally, but some potentially serious speed bumps (and probably predictible friction) with local governments that, broadly speaking, are respected and even trusted by voters...

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2006-01-18 04:35:08 and read 5246 times.

Quoting EyeLN (Reply 50):
Airborne executives engineered a buy-out of their company that effectively protected every Airborne job

That's a very savvy observation, and may explain some of the hubris on the part of the originally-DHL folks. However, given that the surviving company is the one that they originally worked for, it seems unnecessary.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Jeffry747
Posted 2006-01-31 15:24:44 and read 4821 times.

Quoting Lotsamiles (Reply 44):
I doubt UPS does much nose loading but it is nice to have the operational flexibility in they want to enter new markets or if the have the one or the other charter or special load. If I remember correctly about 5-6 years ago UPS was entertaining the idea of 744F's and actually asked Boeing to leave out or disable the nose door. However, the cost for this was greater than any savings that could be passed on to UPS.

UPS is actually planning to use the nose door feature to load outsized shipments, not to mention the ability to load/unload the plane faster. AT SDF, when any full UPS bird arrives (average of 100 flights per weeknight), they want that load off the plane and in the building ASAP. I have seen a 721 completely emptied in just under 9 minutes and a 741 unloaded in 25 minutes. Usage of the nose door could cut load/unload times in half.

I see the nose door as a blessing personally. I was once part of a crew that got stuck with the task of getting a P&W JT-9D out the side door of N520UP.
Biggest pain in the ass EVER! Took 17 men to get that engine off the plane.
On the 744, all you have to do is use the automated rollers in the floor to wheel it out of the nose and onto the loader. Much easier.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: 747Loadmaster
Posted 2006-01-31 16:41:53 and read 4681 times.

Only problem is a JT-9D is 115 inch high and the nose door is only 96 inch high.

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Lotsamiles
Posted 2006-01-31 17:48:07 and read 4573 times.

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 52):
I was once part of a crew that got stuck with the task of getting a P&W JT-9D out the side door of N520UP.
Biggest pain in the ass EVER! Took 17 men to get that engine off the plane.

You will be happy to know that new or newly converted 747's have much better cargo handling systems that will move an engine pallet without any people pushing.

It also did not help that UPS took out all of the powered rollers in the doorway of the 747 due to high maintenance costs.

Regards,
Lotsamiles

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: Jeffry747
Posted 2006-02-01 13:56:11 and read 4302 times.

Quoting 747Loadmaster (Reply 53):
Only problem is a JT-9D is 115 inch high and the nose door is only 96 inch high.

So a JT-9D won't fit in the hold under the upper deck section of the aircraft? That is gonna royally suck!

Topic: RE: UPS To Have 24 744s And Acquire More MD-11s
Username: 747Loadmaster
Posted 2006-02-01 15:12:43 and read 4218 times.

Yes, it can only be loaded AFT of pos 5 and 18 (EL and ER).


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