Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/2608623/

Topic: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: 737DAB320
Posted 2006-02-15 21:26:23 and read 3660 times.

Hello all! I was doing some research on the Virgin America website and I noticed one of the questions in the Q&A section said:
"How will Virgin America be different?"

Part of the answer that was given said:
"Our desire to create an airline that is an alternative to both legacy and low fare carriers is a source of constant inspiration."

So what will Virgin America be like? Will it be more like an LCC or will it offer First Class and be more like a legacy?

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: 737DAB320
Posted 2006-02-16 03:15:42 and read 3566 times.

i guess nobody knows the answer?

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2006-02-16 03:23:40 and read 3559 times.

Well first of all it depends on how you define first class. In the US, first class tends to be this appaling product which ranks somewhere below international business but with large seats (often without footrests though). In the rest of the world, first class is only on longer flights and is really the ultimate, if it exists. International business is not half bad either.

I would be very happy with the equivalent of an international business product on flights over 2� hours. Under that it doesn't matter as much.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2006-02-16 03:25:21 and read 3553 times.

Well first of all it depends on how you define first class. In the US, first class tends to be this appaling product which ranks somewhere below international business but with large seats (often without footrests though). In the rest of the world, first class is only on longer flights and is really the ultimate, if it exists. International business is not half bad either.

I would be very happy with the equivalent of an international business product on flights over 2� hours. Under that it doesn't matter as much.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2006-02-16 03:27:34 and read 3553 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
In the US, first class tends to be this appaling product which ranks somewhere below international business but with large seats

Being appalling and ranking 'somewhere below' business on long haul flights is a disconnect. International business is usually a great product, so if you can come near that on a short haul flight, that's pretty good, not appalling.

And I don't find domestic first service appalling on most jets. The food is good, the seats are comfy, the service is usually good.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Cadet57
Posted 2006-02-16 03:30:46 and read 3536 times.

Theres a user here named SunValley who works for VA, so he is good person to ask on this matter.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2006-02-16 03:37:36 and read 3526 times.

I'll wait to see if they even ever take to the air.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Kanebear
Posted 2006-02-16 04:42:09 and read 3447 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
Well first of all it depends on how you define first class. In the US, first class tends to be this appaling product which ranks somewhere below international business but with large seats (often without footrests though). In the rest of the world, first class is only on longer flights and is really the ultimate, if it exists. International business is not half bad either.

I would be very happy with the equivalent of an international business product on flights over 2� hours. Under that it doesn't matter as much.

Give me US Domestic First Class over Eurobusiness ANY day of the week. IMO the most important aspect is the seat. C class in Europe is nothing more than a glorified Y. You get, maybe, two more inches of pitch and a bit of width increase. It pales in comparison.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Captaink
Posted 2006-02-16 05:51:25 and read 3367 times.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
In the US, first class tends to be this appaling product which ranks somewhere below international business but with large seats

Domestic First or Business as some call it, is just that, DOMESTIC. I am very interested in what Europe has to offer, cause i haven't heard great things.

You can't compare US Domestic First/Business with European longhaul first. Come on man!!

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: SFORunner
Posted 2006-02-16 06:42:25 and read 3331 times.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 7):
C class in Europe is nothing more than a glorified Y.

And in most cases, nothing more than an empty seat between you and the next pax.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: BAW716
Posted 2006-02-16 10:18:15 and read 3231 times.

First Class service in the USA is really nothing more than a wider seat anymore, but you pay a hell of a lot of money for it, or you simply use your status and upgrade (90% of passengers fall into the latter category).

From a economic standpoint (being an airline manager type), it would be just plan dumb for Virgin America to have a "F" type product. I still believe the European flex cabin idea with a small premium for the extra room is the better bet; no upgrades. In addition, they can increase the number of seats based on passenger demand. In certain markets where there are heavy business flyers who will pay additional for the room, then the aircraft can be modified during the stop simply by pulling the center seat forward.

Braniff used this concept in the late 1970s and early 1980s in their 727s and it was VERY popular. Their only downfall was they didn't charge for it. Having the extra space (with the top of the center seat folded down with a small table on it) made all the comfort difference in the world on some of those VERY long flights from DFW to SEA (in the days of no entertainment on airplanes). Its a concept that business people will pay for; as long as the value proposition is evident.

baw716

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: BestWestern
Posted 2006-02-16 11:53:06 and read 3188 times.

European business class gives you

Wider seat (3-2 on most narrow body aircraft) - US superior
Food, on virtually all sectors, regardless of length - European superior
Entry to business class lounges - European superior
Few opportunities to upgrade - US superior
Free drinks - both similar
Ability to flex size of business cabin depending on loads - European superior

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Starlionblue
Posted 2006-02-16 13:50:10 and read 3115 times.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 11):
European business class gives you

Wider seat (3-2 on most narrow body aircraft) - US superior
Food, on virtually all sectors, regardless of length - European superior
Entry to business class lounges - European superior
Few opportunities to upgrade - US superior
Free drinks - both similar
Ability to flex size of business cabin depending on loads - European superior

A great description. I'm not saying Eurobiz is better than US First. I'm just saying US First should maybe be called "Biz" because that's where the product is.

Also, US has plenty of domenstic flights over 4 hours, while Europe doesn't have that many. There's a big difference there.

As someone said, an F type product by Virgin America doesn't seem like a good idea. But hey, it's just an opinion.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Lufthansa
Posted 2006-02-16 14:31:04 and read 3066 times.

WEll i tell you what, I think a proper 'full service' style cabin of some type is a good idea... even if it was just something like UA's E+ (but lets make the seats look nicer...lets say some kind of designer looking leather thing) and FULL service. or perhaps a 5 abreast type thing.... You may find people are willing to pay extra for it if they can enjoy piece, and a little bit of luxury provided they see it as value. If they spent $25 pp they could have a restaurant quatily experience with hot towels and plates and hell, i bet if it had good legroom and a quieter cabin away from the masses, there would be plenty of people willing to pay $50 more for a transcontinental flight.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: Ckfred
Posted 2006-02-16 20:58:55 and read 2904 times.

People will still want a "premium cabin" product for two reasons. First, there will be more room, both in pitch and seat width. A lot of people don't like sitting 6 across, particularly for transcon flights.

Second, you are less likely to find small children and, shall we say, unsophisticated flyers in the forward cabin. An attorney that I used to work for told clients that he didn't work well in the back of the plane. Once, though, he flew ORD-LAX in coach, to save the client some money. Going to LAX, it was the kid kicking the seat. Coming back, it was the conventioneers who, at first, wouldn't stop talking, then snored the last two hours.

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: HanginOut
Posted 2006-02-16 21:57:45 and read 2853 times.

I think having a separate cabin is a great idea, you're offering customers a choice. I agree with BAW716 that a eurobiz section (economy plus) is probably the best idea. Cheaper than having a first/biz class product like the US legacy carriers do, and making yourself stand out a little from the rest of the crowd. If they were to offer better food, good mileage points, PTVs, and awesome service they should be able to do well for themselves.

HanginOut

Topic: RE: Will Virgin America Offer First Class?
Username: TCXDegsy
Posted 2006-02-16 23:23:14 and read 2792 times.

With all the basics the Domestic US carriers have stripped out of their inflight service, from complimentary drinks, newspapers, etc, then it's not really fair to compare US Domestic and Business/First, with Eurpoean equivalents. And they STILL can't turn in a profit on the whole!


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/