BBC world and BBC radio 5 have reportedly announced that "a Concorde is down". More info while I run to switch on CNN. Hope it's not true.

ABC says that the AF Concorde "Burst into flames" just after takeoff from CDG on its way to JFK.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

It was Air France near CDG.

CNN is reporting that the Concorde belonged to Air France and an eyewitness it saying that there were flames from the left engines and was struggling to gain altitude and rolled to the left and possibly may have struck a hotel. The plane was on takeoff from CDG

Air France Concorde crashed into a hotel near Paris.
Leaving for NY from CDG.

I don't see it. This is the second time in as many weeks that we've seen this kind of post. Let's save this kind of reporting for the networks.

Cedarjet has a good rep here, I hope he misinterpreted the news. To everyone else....KEEP THIS OFF THE BOARD UNTIL IT'S VERIFIED!

Yes, at first I thought it was a joke then I saw the posters and realized they're not jokesters. Now we really do have something big to talk about!!!!!!!!!

Let's see, DC9Capt--

There have been three...no FOUR reputable news sources who have been broadcasting this...I'd say its verified.

AF 002 CDG-JFK

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I don't see it. This is the second time in as many weeks that we've seen this kind of post. Let's save this kind of reporting for the networks.

Cedarjet has a good rep here, I hope he misinterpreted the news. To everyone else....KEEP THIS OFF THE BOARD UNTIL IT'S VERIFIED!

Well, It's on CNN and Yahoo (Reuters) so I would guess it's genuine.

What a sad day - say it's not so  

MSNBC is reporting it, but no details as of yet...

Let's all hope to God that there are survivors...  

It's too bad that it is true. CNN.com and MSNBC.com are reporting it as well. May God comfort the families of those that may be lost.

Steve

Confirmed. It was on fire after takeoff. Crashed into a hotel.

I have confirmation that it is true. Very little details at the moment.
Thoughts must be with pax and crew  
Its 0130 here in Sydney and I'm at work which is how I found out.
Maurice

Unconfirmed reports say that the aircraft was F-BTSC.

Some retard on NBC is talking about how the Concorde flies at "hypersonic speeds" now...  

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No details yet on ABCNews.com, but they are reporting the headline.

A FED EX pilot who witnessed the crash said on CNN said that the engine sounded louder than normal and that smoke was coming from the #1 and #2 engines.....

Then the plane stalled and went into a nosedive

NBC is now the first to bring up BA's cracked wings.

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Link to coverage on BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_850000/850903.stm

ABC News is reporting that there are 'many injured', so perhaps there is hope that there will be many survivors of this terrible tragedy.

It's very hard not being able to see what happened or get any details about the crash, as all online sources seem to be mum right now..is anyone watching CNN or MSNBC?  

Think about this:

Both supersonic commercial transports crashes have happened at Paris. First the Tu-144, and now the Concorde...

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Supposedly, the French Government has confirmed that all 109 people onboard were killed on impact with the 72-room "Le Blue" hotel.

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ABC News is now reporting that the aircraft went down with 100 people on board, but that no immediate word was available about their fate. The BBC, however, is reporting that those 100 people are dead.

I'm beginning to get an inkling of what it feels like to be a family member waiting for news on the fate of a loved one. This is so sad... :'-(

ABC News is now reporting that the aircraft went down with 100 people on board, but that no immediate word was available about their fate. The BBC, however, is reporting that those 100 people are dead.

I'm beginning to get an inkling of what it feels like to be a family member waiting for news on the fate of a loved one. This is so sad...  

Now Elaine Cobb (CBS News) is saying that the flight was not AF002 as thought, but was a chartered flight by a German group.

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CNN has live video feed on this sad incident.

On their front page under the breaking news area. Available via Real Players or Windows Player.

Scotty :-(

CBS news is reporting that in went down in a field and then slid into the hotel.

NBC and CBS are reporting that it was not the regular pax flight but chartered by a German tour company

CNN is reporting that the Air France Concorde had the #1 engine in flames as it rolled to its left side and smashed headlong into a hotel just outside Paris. All 109 aboard are dead, as well as possible dead in the hotel.

The flight was a charter flight by a German company with a flight from Paris to JFK, NON SCHEDULED, and it was due to take off at 5PM Paris time. (11AM EST)



N 8 6 3 D A

**Unconfirmed**

The chartered Concorde had every seat filled--100 passengers in addition to the full crew compliment of 3 pilots and 6 flight attendants.

There are now conflicting reports on whether the Concorde crashed into the "le bleu" Hotel restaurant or a nearby field. Reports from the scene, however, say that there casualties on the ground, which would imply that the aircraft crashed, or at least hit, the hotel.

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It will be really scary to see the passenger list of those aboard..... Captians of Industry, Sports Figures, Entertainers..... Truly sad.

It was not a regularly scheduled flight, it was a charter full of German tourists. All on board have been confirmed killed.  

Unluckliy it is sad true...

Catalunya Ràdio in BCN is relating that there were 100 pax+9crew on board, and the firemen do not have any iappreciation yet about how many victims could be in the hotel, at this time. Do not know either if it was AF002 or not, but the news report that craft to be bounded to NYC, and crashed shortly after t/o from Roissy-Charles de Gaulle, Paris.

No turbulences, today.  
Bad news.

I don't have any experience with charter flights, but wouldn't the mere fact that it was one indicate that high-profile figures were not aboard? I would think that few who can afford to fly the Concorde regularly would take a charter. More likely, it's European tourists.

That still doesn't make what happened any easier to deal with or any less tragic, though.  

Unluckliy it is sad true...

Catalunya Ràdio in BCN is relating that there were 100 pax+9crew on board, and the firemen do not have any iappreciation yet about how many victims could be in the hotel, at this time. Do not know either if it was AF002 or not, but the news report that craft to be bounded to NYC, and crashed shortly after t/o from Roissy-Charles de Gaulle, Paris.

No turbulences, today.  
Bad news.

Very, very sad.

German news say the plane was chartered by the Deilmann cruise line, owners of the luxury ships "Deutschland" and "Berlin". I once flew on a Deilmann charter, usually there a lot of rich and even some famous people on board (both ships are stars in the famous German "Traumschiff"-TV series).

The passengers should be German tourists. Either way, very sad.

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This is TERRIBLE!!!
The full story is at http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/07/25/concorde.crash.02/index.html

N202PA:
Charter does not necessarily mean cheap. Charter means that the aircraft is being chartered (meaning rented by a touristic company for a purpose other than a regular flight), and charter a Concorde is not cheap in any way. Though maybe cheaper than a regular ticket CDG-JFK, its price must be far from many pockets. Lately one of those came to BCN, and the price go Concorde-come Business or vice-versa was 30% more expensive than a business ticket the same route. And it was a publicitary charter by AF itself.

To everybody:
CAtalunya Ràdio is now reporting how the airplane was chartered by a German company, and raises the number of victims to 112.

 

If both engines were "smoking", that creates some major questions. One possibility would be ingestion by both engines of some major foreign objects such as large birds etc.. or 2) an uncontained failure of one of the engines which damaged it's "partner" engine located in the same pod. This is very sad. Dead people, experienced crew, beautiful plane, all very sad.

CNN reported that it was a charter flight with German tourists on board.

Oh my god!
What's a sad day.
109 peoples died...
This is the first Concorde crash........
Hope that no more crash.

MSNBC is now reporting that all 109 aboard the aircraft were killed, along with at least four in the hotel.  

As an aside...13 Concordes in service...that's a very unusual coincidence..or is it...?

BBC now reports France confirms over 100 dead so far.
Eye wittness reports left engine on fire after take off moments before crash. I wonder if the wing problem is worse that they thought, but this sounds like an engine out and she stalled after take off.

I am extremely shocked by what happened today.

My thoughts go to my colleague's families, relatives and friends as well as the ones of the customers flying the supersonic aircraft.

I have no words but to say that I feel extreme pain and sadness.
To loose some of your friends and colleagues is a nightmare.

God bless their souls and families.

Thank you.

AF Cabin Crew.

Another link to the story:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/concorde000725.html

According to Fox News Channel, four people were killed inside the resturant of a hotel. Also, the people on board the plane were going to a cruise that left from the US. Very Sad.

   
Ouch.
My condolences to the victims families.

Sad...

An Air France Concorde en route to New York City crashed outside Paris shortly after takeoff Tuesday, slamming into a hotel in the town of Gonesse and killing all 109 aboard, French officials said. It was the first time one of the supersonic jets has crashed.

Interior Ministry officials said there were no survivors aboard the chartered flight.

The crash took place shortly before 5 p.m. local time (1500 GMT / 11 a.m. EDT), after takeoff from Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport. "It was a sickening site, a huge fireball," eyewitness Sid Hare told CNN.

Concorde info:
The Concorde jet is capable of traveling from Paris to New York in three hours, 45 minutes at a cruising speed of Mach 2 or 1,370 miles per hour.

Capacity: Its seating capacity is 100 passengers and it usually has a crew of nine.

Daily service between New York and Paris started in 1977.

The Concorde holds two world speed records for commercial flights. In 1992, it circled the globe from east to west in 32 hours, 49 minutes and three seconds. Three years later, the Concorde flew west to east in 31 hours, 27 minutes and 49 seconds.




MESSAGE BOARD
Air safety





Hare said the crash occurred about two miles from the hotel where he is staying.

France's LCI television quoted eyewitnesses as saying the aircraft was not able to gain sufficient altitude before it crashed, and that police were keeping onlookers away from the site.

"The airplane was struggling to climb and obviously couldn't get altitude," Hare, a pilot for Federal Express, said via telephone from France.

He said the Concorde had reached an altitude of about 200 feet before flames started shooting out from a left-side engine.

"He (the pilot) kept raising the nose ... and the airplane stalled, the nose went straight up into the air and the airplane actually rolled over to the left and almost inverted when it went down in huge fireball when it hit (the ground)," Hare said.

France Info radio quoted another eyewitness as saying the plane's motor was on fire and that a huge cloud of black smoke went up in the air.

British Airways said Monday it had found cracks in the wings of some of its supersonic aircraft, but said there was no danger to passengers.

The Concorde, which crosses the Atlantic at 1,350 mph, has been considered among the world's safest planes. Its only major scare came in 1979, when a bad landing blew out a plane's tires. The incident led to a design modification.

The plane is popular with celebrities, world-class athletes and the rich. It flies above turbulence at nearly 60,000 feet, crossing the Atlantic in about 3 1/2 hours, less than half that of regular jetliners.

The first Concorde flew in 1969. Now, 13 of the needle-nosed supersonic jets are operated by Air France and British Airways. A round-trip Paris-New York ticket costs $9,000, roughly 25 percent more than regular first class. A London-New York round-trip runs $9,850.

Air France officials have said in the past that their current fleet is fit to fly safely until 2007.

(Jfktower.com)

Both CBS and NBS news reported that the only serious incident prevously was when one of them blew a tire in 79 that lead to some gear redesigns.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't BA have one shed a good portion of it's rudder inflight in the late 80's. I seem to remember it as a trip to Australia but don't hold me to that.

One other thing....One of the commentations said the aircraft had been "Out of production for a couple of years" I am not going to make any specific comment but I don't think I would use that terminology.

Keep your speculations of what happened to yourself. The accident only happened just over an hour a go NOBODY knows what happened. Eye witness reports are known to be unreliable as people tend to see what thay want to see.

Didn't believe it until I read it on BBC website.

As always, a truely terrible day for those involved and their families.

And possibly also the end of an era. I see the BA bird over my house every evening and always, always stop or go out to look.

It's like some sort of innocence has been taken away fom us all...

Very Sad News Coming in this morning. Considering Concorde pilots are probably the best trained in the world this is both sad and devistating at the same time. My condolences go out to the familes, friends, and crew affected by this.

To me it seems that the Concorde era will be ending very soon  

I agree about the 'loss of innocence', the Concorde has joined the ranks of every other jet liner (except the DM Mercure) today.

VC10, with the greatest of respect for what you're saying, these forums are all about speculation, whether it's AB vs Boeing future orders or causes of incidents etc. It's press speculatation (especially about aircrew error) that is irresponsible.

News just reported that 113 souls have been lost for the moment. Including 4 on the ground. Lets hope it doesn't rise more.
All my prayers to the passnagers and their families.

Nicolas

Let us all take a moment to pray (or consider, if you don't pray) for the people who died or were injured in this crash; for their families and friends; for the people at Air France; for the people at British Airways, who just recently inspected their Concordes and will most likely be affected by this event as well.

We here in Cleveland have been expecting a visit by a chartered Air France Concorde on August 22/23. I suspect that these plans may be cancelled due to the proximity of this crash.

May God help all those affected in their time of loss and suffering.

Regards,
Elizabeth

Man, this fucking sucks big goat balls!

Have all the passengers been confermed dead? i would think they would have a higher chance of survival in a concorde then in the regualr jet because of the beefed up structures needed for flying at mach 2.

This is a sad day in aviation history. Many people believe bad things happen in three's (TWA, Swissair, Egypt Air). I sure hope there are not 2 more plane crashes in paris or 2 more concord crashes.

This news makes me really sad, if they ground concorde because of this. Then i am going to go on a shooting spree, and thats a gauruntee.......

Click for large version

Photo © Joe Pries

look at these pictures....

Click for large version

Photo © Frank J. Mirande


Click for large version

Photo © Rajesh Changela

Is there is areason for those concords to be turning so soon after takeoof?

Eyewitnesses to the crash, report seeing flame or smoke coming out of one of the two engines on one of the wings. My theory is that the engine that had the problem, caused the other engine next to it to fail which offset the balance of the aircraft on takeoff causing it to flip over and crash.

Air France is reporting that there has been one survivor so far! I'm watching the report on MSNBC news and it's a sad scene seeing it burning. No surving crew and 5 dead when hit the hotel.

Boyshane

My thoughts are with the families and the friends of the people involved in this tragic accident.

Regards,
Emmanuel

My thoughts are with the families and the friends of the people involved in this tragic accident.

Regards,
Emmanuel

I just heard on MS NBC there were 100 passengers, only 1 serviver, 5 dead on the grond. This is a terrable day for everyone. How could this happen?  

MY WORD, watch the language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And by "shooting spree" i HOPE you mean pics right?

Yes, this is left turn just after take off from JFK is done because of noise regulations. It was explained in a documentary about the Concorde on the Discovery channel.

If we assume that the aircraft was F-BTSC, I read in a previous tread (about the AF Concorde) that this aircraft was somewhat different from the others in AF fleet. It was the first one delivered (in 1976) and was 1 tone heavier than the rest. It was also a -100, while the rest are -101. Maybe somebody can give us more information on that.

May all souls find their peace...

Bacardi182.

Looks like your photo's show Concorde doing a bit of a swift turn to avoid noise abatement equipment on the departure route.

A piece of cake for the Concorde pilots who are the best in the business.

Let's leave the crash investigation and reasons for the crash up to the professional investigators. It is a terrible tragedy which can only be made worse by people guessing at what caused it. (Think about how painful it is for the families of TWA 800!) Unfortunately there will be some speculation in relation to last week's inspection of the British Airways Concordes. However, I think one fatal crash in nearly 25 years is a rather impeccable record!

God bless,
redngold

122 Dead, a possible survivor is being reported by Air France. British Airways considering cancelling flights as is AF.

Even in this age when we are bombarded with news of unimaginable disasters, I feel a sense of shock upon hearing news of a plane crash. My thoughts will be with the loved ones of the passengers, crew, and persons on the ground killed in this tragic event.

A very sad, dark day...  

F-BTSC - That's him

Click for large version

Photo © PASSET Laurent

this is a sad day, not only to the people on board, but for the advancement of aviation. I am not going to point out causes, but the irony of this just after the recent findings may correlate. if the NTSB (or the french equivlent) finds the cracks to be the problem, then i say it's time to revise the "graveyard" policy the FAA and other agencies have. This is truly a sad event.

On CNN they are showing pictures of the wreckage site. I'm not a proffesional crash investigator, but I do know quite a bit about it;

And it can definately be said that, judging by the wreckage pattern, there was no horizontal movement when the plane struck the ground. It literally fell out of the sky - with no forward movement whatsoever.

It if were moving forward at the time of impact, it would have skidded along the ground. There is no wreckage evidence around the scene of any aircraft bits - and no 'gouged out' marks on the ground - and you can tell that from just what is on the Television.

It had no forward movement at the time of impact. And that, my friends, is a certainty.



N 8 6 3 D A

Cracks have nothing to do with the crash. Engine problems are at the source of this disaster - From Air France

109 passangers and 4 people at land died. It was Air France Concord , but i don't konow now , what was registration.

Reg # is F-BTSC

I confirm what N863DA said, the plane literally felt off the sky in a stall.

Wouldn't you know that the two fatal accidents involving the supersonic aircraft, both the AF Concorde and the TU-144, both occured in the Paris area. This tragedy near Charles de Gaulle and the TU-144 near Le Bourget.

A sad coincidence....

It should be interesting to see what's on the CVR tape, if they end up releasing it. That'll at least start to explain why the pilot didn't/couldn't lower the nose to avoid the stall.

The BBC have just reported that Air France have said that the engine was on fire and that the engine was the cause of the crash, NOT cracks in the wing as was speculated by some people.

Also, the plane did not come down ON the hotel (thank God) but in fact a few meteres away from it, resulting in 4 fatalities on the ground.

Very sad. Thoughts with the families of those killed.

Tom

Witness said to have seen the plane inverted just before the impact. This is from France 3 (French Television channel)

I've just read on BA's site that
flights BA003 & BA004 to and from JFK
had been cancelled just because of circumstances
about the crash and BA has complete confidence
in its Concordes.
My thoughts with involved in this tragedy .
This is terrible !!!

I am afraid to say that if you loose more than one engine on take off in a Concorde you won't make it.

From the sounds of it the engine problems occured on the r/w (presumably after V1?) and these were so catastrophic that they had negative effects on perhaps the other engine on the left side and maybe some control surfaces.

Concorde is designed without flaps and flys at slow speeds by operating at high angles of attack. Therefore in an emergency situation a stall is very difficult to avoid.

In fact, as I type this John Hutchinson (who used to sign my Junior Jet Club mileage certificates) who is the Chief Concorde pilot for British Airways is being interviewed by BBC World. He syas that an engine failure is not a problem on take off - the aircraft is massively over-engineered and should be able to recover. However he speculates that the engine failure was uncontained in which case it would be a very serious problem. According to him Concorde will fly for another 10 years and the wing cracks are unrelated.

HOWEVER, IT IS NOW CONFIRMED THAT BRITISH AIRWAYS HAVE GROUNDED ALL CONCORDE SERVICES.

i agree, and after hearing the pilot's report, i doubt the cracks had anything to do with it.

From French Television: The aircraft had more than 12,000 hours logged and had be checked (not sure waht kind of check) lately.

Dear Friends

first, my condoleancs to all the families and friends of the victims. Unfortunately, I have had the experience of a crash in the company I worked for, and I can understand how you feel now. You have all my moral support you need.

What a sad day :-(

To something else.. It seems to me, that there are speculations sunning this BBS already, and that is not what we should do now!

Sorry, I didn't have time to read all the posts.

Right now, they are saying there where 109 onboard, and 4 on the ground that are presumed dead.  

The a/c went down about 3 miles from CDG, and about 1 mile from Le Bourget.

The FedEx pilot also said that the plane was going along at only about 200ft, before it went down.

They are now saying there are some survivors in the hotel, just beside where the plane crashed.

Cedarjet,

What is the point of speculation ? It is meaningless, just a waste of time. You may aswell say the accident happened because of the meteor shower the earth is currently passing through.

I prefer to form an opinion based on known hard facts, not the statements of non-aviation minded members of the public (excepting the Fedex pilot who saw the a/c at CDG).

Air France is now saying that 2 engines were on fire and that V1 was reached that prior to the problem being found. Pilots attempted to stop the aircraft, but chose to takeoff and attempt and immediate emergency landing at any other airport, road, or facility able to handle a long slowdown.

I lost a good friend on PAN AM 103 as well as some relatives on the Air India 747 bombing off the Irish coast. So I know on what the families are going through. My conolensces to families who lost loved ones in the crash. I hope that someone had surivied so the person/persons can tell what happened to prevent something like this from happening again

The concorde left CDG with 109 pax. and crew. It was a charter flight full of Germans headed for NY for a cruise to the Bahamas and Cuba. 109 dead in plane 4 dead on the ground. AF has grounded all Concordes.

Both BA and AF have grounded all Concordes.

Concorde operations suspended this evening

Statement as at 18.40

British Airways has taken the decision to cancel its two Concorde services tonight - the BA003 from Heathrow to New York and the BA004 in the other direction.

In a statement, the airline said:

"We have complete confidence in our Concorde aircraft and our Engineering. "Nevertheless in these circumstances - and while information is still coming in - we have taken the unprecedented step of cancelling tonight’s flights.

"Passengers booked on these flights will be offered transfers to other subsonic aircraft. "We will be holding discussions with our technical counterparts at Air France and reviewing tomorrow’s operations overnight. It is our intention to operate tomorrow’s services.

"A further statement will be issued tomorrow morning. "British Airways’ first concern always is safety. All our aircraft are subject to continuing and exhaustive safety checks. "Our thoughts and sympathies are with our colleagues at Air France, and all those involved in this tragedy. We have already been in touch with Air France and offered any assistance we can provide."

All British Airways services to and from Paris Charles de Gaulle have been cancelled for the rest of this evening.

Can someone explain to me why BA would cancel all flights to CDG??

Here's a photo taken seconds before the crash:



/ Freddy

Uggh!!
My stomach is churning from the news footage. It is really unfortunate
and tragic. Normally a concorde is not full. SInce this was a non-sched
charter the plane was full 100+3+6. I'm not going to get over this for some
time.

My God.

It's not often that the world gets to see pictures of an aircraft moments before it crashes...the only two notable examples that come to mind are United 232 at Sioux City in 1989, caught on video by a local camera crew, and PSA 182 at San Diego in 1978, with a crystal-clear picture that still sends shivers down my spine.

This is unbelievable...and horrific... They probably had time to realize what was happening before impact...  

Air france PDG told the french tv that two of their concords hadn't cracks in their wings and the concord who crashed today (F-BTSC) was one of those 2 a/c!

The crash seem to be done because of the engines!
One left engine was on fire and after a while both left engines were on fire!
The concorde who is not an aircraft for low-speed was enable to take off with only 2 engines!

IT'S A BIG LOSS FOR ALL AVIATION HISTORY!
 

Julien.M (EBBR)

Did you take that photo Freddy? I know ths isn't the time to say this, but you could have sold that for hundreds of thousands of dollars if it is.

Like what the rest of you guys have heard..
I do feel sorry for the demise of the passengers that were on AF and on da ground.Not a good day indeed.
Air France Concorde F-BTSC crashed SHORTLY
after talkeoff from CDG..Enroute to JFk carrying
German Tourists. umm..Passenger amounts not exactly sure as I heard it was either around 108 to 118.
Under what ive heard..It started to lose stability as it continued to climb to its desingnated altitude..
somehow it twiched and rolled before back sliding into a hotel..I also heard that it first clipped the ground before it struck the hotel..Flames ignited and toasted the SST.IT was said that about 4 people on the ground died as well so that added to the total deaths.  
It seems like Im also hearing things about some problems with its RR-SNECMA -Olympus 593MK 610 engines like flames,smoke,or Mechanical failure..
Lets hope that the investagators and the (european FAA) find out what had happened.AirFRance had said that its Concordes were considered safe until 2007.
This was what i have heard on the news.Some of my info may be false or inaccurate because it was just released.. By the way, 1 person is said to have survived this deadful event..

Freddy,
How do you get that picture,
it is ASTONISHING!!!

All the poor people onboard  

We always hoped that this day would never come...
No appropriate words can describe this tragedy.

I would just like to express deepest condolences for all passengers on boards, flight crew, friends and relatives of all involved in this accident.

 

Best regards,
Jernej, Slovenia

All--

Unless I'm mistaken, Freddy didn't take that picture himself. It's located on the Yahoo! server, and seems to be a photo from the Reuters news agency.

The person who *did* take it probably rushed it off to be printed and prompty sold it to Reuters for a big sack of change.

It's sad that opportunists would take advantage of a tragic event like this, but what are you going to do?  

Hmm now isnt the time for me to realy ask this but what was the exact date twa800 went down?
MY heart goes out to everybody today, indeed a sad day for us all.

TWA800 went down July 26th 1996. Four years ago tomorrow. (Or today in some parts of the world.)



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The picture is quite errie. It is difficult to imagine what was going through the minds of the crew and the passengers onboard. Its unfortunate that it ended as it did. It is a shame, the crew must have done their damndest to save the ship.

That accident occurred on the night of July 17th, 1996.

TWA Flight 800: July 17, 1996

Apologies, I may well be wrong on the date of TWA800, as N202PA points out.


N 8 6 3 D A

That picture of the dying bird is one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Perhaps there is some tiny comfort in the fact that those who died lost their lives doing something that everyone reading this forum would give anything to have the chance to do. May they rest in Peace.

John--

I take it that you're referring to the pursuit of flight and not an aviation crash. You're right about that much.

N863DA--

AirDisaster.com's crash database gives the date as 7/17/00, but I haven't verified that. They could be wrong. On the other hand, I recall something about the four year anniversary of TW800 on the news sometime last week.

Bonsoir  

I've just heard this story. I can't believe that.
My condoleances to all the families and friends of the victims...

I had the luck to visit the Concorde F-BTSC last february when I visited the Air France maintenance facilities at Roissy CDG. I will always remember the beauty of the cabin, but also the care and the passion of the employees who worked on Concorde. Air France and its employees didn't deserve such a nightmare.

Take Care  

Louis - AF triple 7 -

Sabol

Freddy's picture most likely came off CNN's website. They're also showing it on their news feed.

This is a very sad day...

---
Mike

According the Reuters, the photo was taken by Andras Kisgely, "a Hungarian plane spotter while on holidays and travelling across Europe." Here's the link:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20000725/ts/mdf95410.html

Imagine being in THAT place at THAT time. What a bittersweet feeling for Mr. Kisgely.

 

A sad, sad day...

As a frequent customer of Air France, and a hopeful traveller on AF's Concorde someday, this is a total shocker and quite disturbing.

This will invariably affect BA and AF's Concorde program. I understand and agree with the grounding of their respective programs, but I hope it will only be temporary (as soon as investigations bring the mystery of this crash to light).

I still have great faith in Air France and their meticulous maintenance and service, and would fly them anytime, anywhere.

Despite this horrible tragedy, I still hope to be a passenger on an AF Concorde one day. It has been a life long dream of mine (and I am sure millions of others), and I have fond memories of the Concorde that would interupt 2nd period class in my Sophomore and Junior years in High School (the class would literally stop sometimes to watch it ascend).

My condolences to all the families and especially to all AF cabin crews, to whom, this must really be a tragedy for.

Quel Dommage...(what a shame...)

The following article appears in Aviation Week's Aviation Now Web site, http://www.aviationnow.com:

Several witnesses to today’s crash of an Air France Concorde outside Paris have said the plane’s No. 1 and 2 engines were on fire or trailing smoke shortly after takeoff today. If the engines were disabled – by multiple bird strikes, for example, or some other catastrophic failure – the crew would have faced multiple problems with little time to react, suggests a simulator ride taken earlier this year by John Wiley, a contributor to Business & Commercial Aviation, a sister publication of AviationNow.

The chief Concorde pilot for British Airways, Mike Bannister, said during the simulator ride that two failed engines on one side would cause major disruptions during normal cruise flight. “Concorde yaws into the dead engines just like a normal airplane but it rolls away from the dead engines. When the engines fail, they can no longer take the airflow so the digitally controlled intakes open doors and the air is dumped out the bottom. This produces the roll in the opposite direction.”

Wiley was able to counter the simulator’s roll when Bannister idled engines No. 1 and 2, but that was partly because Bannister’s move was deliberate and expected; more needs to be done in real life. The flight engineer would have to move fuel forward as the plane slowed, and that in itself is a complex task. In the case of the Air France flight, the plane had close to 200,000 pounds of fuel aboard.

SKY NEWS states that the aircraft was seen with it's left engine ablaze ON the runway, while taking off. Passengers and crew in other aircraft also saw the engine on fire on the runway. Debris from the wing was also seen fall onto the runway while the aircraft was still on the ground. Should'nt one of the company aircraft or the ATC reorted to the concorde that there was a flame coming out of the engine. Or the ATC could have told the concorde to abort the take-off...?

What a terrible accident........but please remember that whether or not it's a Concorde......it's an aviation accident and they are all equally unfortunate.

May god be with the crew and passengers.

               

I am afraid that this is the end of it. Even if the fault is found (must be a double engine failure), and the remaining twelve Concordes are allowed to fly again, then both AF and BA will see that the market has evaporated.
The luxury charter market disappeared completely in the flames in Paris this afternoon.
The scheduled market will shrink dramatically.
The reason is that the Concorde has never really been a needed plane like the ordinary subsonic airliners are.
It is even less needed today than when it was new. It was built for busy business executives. Those people today rely on video conferencing and instant transfer of any documents via email and file sharing on international company data networks. The executives don't have time to travel much these days, not even on a Concorde.
Another obstacle: The environmentalist groups in New York will be ready again - as they were 20 years ago - the same second rumours tell that a Concorde may fly again and describe for us another crash down 5th Avenue in NYC.
It's a very sad day in aviation history. The Concorde was a great plane. I never saw a take off or landing, and now I am sure that I never will. The closest I ever came was watching a Concorde in queue on the taxiway at LHR from a BA 757 window last summer. My 757 took off first.
Any more or less realistic plans for a next generation SST will also be set back dramatically by this tragic accident.
Preben norholm

You all very well know what happened today, so I'm not going to post a report of the crash. My heart goes out to all involved in the terrible tragedy. It's very sad to see such a great aircraft, or any aircraft for that matter, go down . I saw an Air France Concorde at JFK 15 days ago. My whole JFK experience was centered around getting a GOOD picture of the Concorde. I'm not sure if I saw the exact same Concorde as the one that went down, but I will let you know when I get my slides back. It truly is a marvel of engineering, as all aircraft are. Just think, not even 100 years ago man made the first powered flight...just something to think about..
Today was a very sad day. I first found out what happened when my dad called me from work this morning, telling me the horrific news. I hope everyone on this forum will sympathize for the families and friends of those who were tragically killed. I for one, will pray and keep praying for those involved. I have been sulking all day after hearing the news.

Thank you,
Jonathan D.
jderden777  

I hadn't seen any of the pictures until now...

I feel sick.

Lord, have mercy...  

It is shocking! It's like a big bang to me! I was on the way to uni and heard the news on ABC news (Australia) and it reported 113 people dead. My heart plunged. I had no intentions to attend my first lecture. Going through all the online sources (news.airwise.com ; cnn.com etc) made me feel soooooooooooooooo sad.
I'd like to express my deepest sympathy to those who had lost their loved ones in the tragic accident.
   
God Bless all of them.....

VERY, VERY SAD DAY.............


Jimmyair
Brisbane
9:46 EST (australia)

It was obvious that the Concorde was bound to go down someday, and if you think about it we were all sure it was going to happen. So today, July 25th 2000 will go down in history as the day the Concorde went down. If you think about it, these planes are very old, and they travel at much higher speeds, which also wears them down more than ordinary Jetliners. They are almost thirty years old, and almost no major airlines have airplanes in service that are over 25 years.

RIP CONCORDE

Click for large version

Photo © Ralph Kunadt

Speak for yourself dude!
It was never obvious that Concorde would ever crash, it has never been a thought in my mind, even since they first started regular service here to NY.

I have seen Concorde parked and in action, countless times, from here in NY and at CDG, and I truly never even pondered the possibility. It didn't seem as though there was a possibilty.

You sound so cold and unaffected, have you ever seen any of the Concordes right in front of you? Or maybe from the window of your morning math class? Or parked right next to the gate you are pulling into? Or on finals right above the car you are riding in? Have you ever been close enough to touch it? Maybe if you have or had been, you would show a little sympathy, tenderness and understanding, on this topic.

Maybe it's obvious that you will die in a plane crash someday...I guess we're all expecting it, right??!!!!

I have to disagree. BA and AF maintain their Concordes with an incredible degree of meticulous care. These are, after all, the flagships of the fleet. Everything from maintenance to cabin interior to in-flight service is the absolute very best. The thought that the loss of one of these great planes was just a matter of time is calous and shows a lack of empathy.

Today, the Queen of the skies, passengers and crew, have fallen and it's a sad day indeed. With that, some respect please.

Anyway, I pray that God is with the victims and watches over friends, family and the folks at AF.

I had never expected that a Concorde would crash. I was completely shocked when I heard. It is terrible.

I have to disagree. BA and AF maintain their Concordes with an incredible degree of meticulous care.
This is very true. For each hour the plane is flown it gets 2 hours of maintenance upon arrival.
The Concorde could still last a few decades

Nicolas

God bless all the souls on board AF 4590.




Gundu

I have read some bullsh*t here.
What do you mean the ones who say Concorde is dead?
Do you mean that when a B737-200/A320-200/L1011TS crashes all 737-200s/320-200s7L1011TSs must be retired? Then we have no market, guys. We remain grounded for the rest of our lifes. Are you serious? Concordes NEVER had any accident in 31 years. And because ONE has fallen now is time to retire them? Concorde is the SAFEST aircraft in the world, the BEST taken care of, and this disgraceful accident will not prevent me to fly one if I ever could, the same way the several accidents on M11s did not prevent me to cross the Atlantic five times on them, or the multiple accidents of 737s in summer '83 ('83?, '34?) did not prevent me to fly some 30 round trips on 737s of all older kinds (-200, -300, -400) from 1992 to 1995. Please note: everything that is on the air is suitable to fall down. But this won't stop the whole world flying. Please do not write stupidity just because the Concorde is a SYMBOL. And something else: although it is true that both LHR and CDG lines to JFK are great money loosers for obvious reasons, in the latest decade the Concordes have resulted in giving huge profits to both AFR and BAW thanks to the charter and promotional flights. Both companies now regret having ONLY six or seven of those ones.

Long life to Concorde  

May the victims rest in peace.  

Heard about it at the Millenium Dome yesterday at the Sky News kiosk. Sad end to this great plane.

Jeff

May G-d bless the souls aboard that flight, and give strength and peace to all who mourn.

-Mike, Saddened in CA.

I totally agree with you!!! Long live the Concorde!!! 

However, it is a terrible tragedy and I pray for those lost onboard the ill-fated flight.  


Jonathan Derden
jderden777

How can anyone say that this has to be the end of the supersonic jet when the accident could've happened to any aircraft. What people should think about is that in its almost thirty year history, this was the first time any incident has ever occured with the concorde. I was watching the news this afternoon and I watched people who boarded the first concorde since the accident, a British Airways flight from JFK to London, and they felt the same way. I do believe that it may mark the end of the Concorde, I'm afraid (it is my favorite jet in the world and I'm sad to see it go, IF IT DOES OF COURSE!), but I doubt that this is the end of supersonic jets. The talk about the Super Concorde might not be too far off, however it'll cost lots of money. The Concordes still in use are already paid for, but the new "Super Concordes" may be too expensive to fly. I think that the Concordes will still be in use until 2007 or 2008 or so and then new supersonic jets will take its place a few years later. I always dreamed of flying a supersonic jet, but I don't want it to go down before I'm rich enough to fly one.

Jon Ross

I heard about the crash from a colleage at work yesterday morning, and this is the first chance I have been able to get to the computer.

My heart goes out to the families of those who died, my prayers are indeed with them. Also my sincere condolences and prayers to AF and their employess, especially AF Cabin Crew and other AF members of this forum who have lost both friends and colleagues because of this crash. Please, too, spare a thought to the rescue workers and those teams who are currently ministering to the families and friends of the disceased.

Whatever will happen as a result of this crash is for the future to decide. It is a great shock to everyone on this forum, and it is understandable to feel a sense of loss both for the victims and their families, as well as for the industry as a whole. As we wait to hear what actually happend (and yes, this can take months as many of you know) let's concentrate and keep our thoughts on the loss of life in this tragedy and to those who are affected by it. The speculation and angry responses made by some on this thread are premature, and I think ought to be put to one side, if nothing else, out of respect for those who are touched by this loss (I include ourselves in this as well).

The Concorde is a beautiful and graceful aircraft. Seeing one crash is like losing a best friend.

Peace.

Charles

This is the one of the biggest tragedies in the history of Aviation, Valujet was 1st, Now Valujet has been bumped into Third place (TWA Accident). This was a 31 year old plane with a More than Excellent Safety Record, But I wonder, Did the Crash have something to do with the replacement of the Component in the Number 2 Turbojet. I still cannot believe that this has happened, REST IN PEACE To this Beautiful Bird.

           

To throw in my $0.02 on this issue, it is a very sad thing to see this graceful bird go down like that. When I was told about the accident in Paris, I thought it was an A320 or MD-80 at first until I saw on the CNN breaking news that it was a Concorde. Seeing that was a real shocker to me and immediately gave me a deep sense of sorrow. How can one with an almost-perfect record suddenly go down?

May Concorde and her passengers and others who may have perished rest in peace. We will never see her or those she may have affected, again. RIP. 

Tupolev154B2

I was on duty on Tuesday when I heard that an aircraft had crashed on the midday news. It was only when the headlines were announced that I realized that it was a Concorde which had crashed. I was stunned immediately! CONCORDE crash? Unthinkable! Alas it was true. Ironically enough, a nursing colleague of mine had just returned from his honeymoon in the UK and showed us his pictures, two of which featured a BA Concorde in LHR taxying and then taking off. What a bitter irony!

I heard only little more about it on that day and, after coming home yesterday, scoured the 'Net, CNN and BBC for details. 109 dead aboard the plane plus 4 on the ground - really a tragedy. What is more, the tragedy takes on a different dimension because it is Concorde. Yes, other accidents have occurred and all are equally tragic from the human standpoint but in this one there is also the fall of an icon, the Concorde. The inspiration of many a young pilot, an instantly-recognizable bird at the airport, a design which evokes awe and wonder in many almost like love at first sight - Concorde has been that for the entire world for 3 decades. It is almost like "Titanic" all over again.

Yes, the cause may be found to be the Olympus engines but for all of us the mystique and romance of the Concorde has been shattered by brutal reality. Even if the 12 remaining Concordes continue in service (and BA has resumed its services with them), the aura surrounding them will have changed. Sad to say, I think that this is indeed the beginning of the end of these lovely birds.

My condolences are extended to the families and friends of those who were aboard F-BTSC on her last flight, to Air France and to Germany, from where most of the victims came. May they all rest in peace after such a palpable nightmare of a flight.

May F-BTSC, graceful bird as she was, also rest in peace.

             

       

Trintocan.  

On 25.07.00 the Concorde crashed...
We were just number three behind..on the Sierra 5 intersection from rwy26R...My commander told me:" hey, we can see the famous Concorde taking-off..great".
Just in front of our plane (Saab2000 Crossair), the left engine exploded and a fire came out of the exhaust...Unfortunatelly we were not on tower frequency, so we couldn't hear, if somebody told that to the captain..We saw the plane crash a few miles after rwy26...a little bit to the left, because he tried to land at Le Bourget...
Later the airport was closed for departing traffics...
I can tell you, it's a nightmare to watch a plane crash...

A profond regards to the victims , the crew and their family

Hi all

I listened to a dumb news article on UK TV this morning:

Interviewer: Do you think it could happen again?
Dumb reporter (Woman): Well they said the Titanic would not sink.

It did not stop her taking a flight on SSC to NY with BA yesterday, no doubt paid by the TV company.

Twat!

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland

Folks:

Well I am obviously saddened by this crash. When I was a little boy in France some 20 years ago, -already an aviation fan  - I watched that big bird fly over, I could also hear it... at some point, it would reach sound speed even over western France on its way to NY, and we were provided w/ loud supersonic bangs!

I would like to thank all of you for the respect you expressed in this forum.

Special kind thoughts to Markus/ThreeGreens: watching this live was sure a terrible moment.

Highest regards to the AF crew: seemingly the Captain managed to avoid crashing in a more densely populated area. Heroic.

Pat

A tire could have possibly been the cause of Concorde to crash. One of the tires may have been sucked into number 1 or 2 engines causing the engine to go up in flames.

I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the British Airways family to offer our condolences to all those at the Air France family and all the families and friends of the loved ones lost in the truly devasting events of last week.

We at British Airways appreciate more than anyone else the devastating repercussions of this tragedy. The Concorde is a wonderful aircraft and is operated by an elite group of individuals and flown on by a lucky few. The 109 people lost form part of this legacy and legend. Let us remember them.

Im not cold and harsh, and if you think im gonna die in a plane crash, thats your problem. Ofcourse i have sympathy for those who died. All i was saying is that ALL aircraft crash at least once.

-TWA902fly

Some may be interested to know that this weeks crash of the Concorde is not the first time a supersonic airliner crashes in Paris. Back in 1973 the Soviet built TU-144 (Konkordski) crashed at its debut at the Paris Air Show. The cause of that crash has been the subject of much speculation, and information on this subject can be found elsewhere on the web (search TU-144 and "Supersonic Spies"). There is of course no connection between these two crashes other than their location but I have found that every time a TV reporter talks about this being the "first crash of a supersonic airliner" I want to correct them and remind them of the TU-144, a total of which two crashed.

I just got back from an 8-day backpacking trip in the high Sierras, come back to this board to find this... my stomach turned... this is absolutely horrible... I can't fathom this still.

But considering there are only 16 or so Concordes, and 1 crashed, that would bring it's accident per flight ratio WAY down would it not? If so, what is that number?

Moi,
Kai