Is ANZ service standard now on a par with SQ? For the last 6 years I have avoided ANZ due to there average service offering with regards to the likes of IFE etc and have mostly flown SQ with the odd flight on VS, BA and Malaysian Airlines for long haul.

Now that ANZ has cabins with flat beds in business etc does this bring them in line with SQ and other airlines or are they now superior? My gut feeling is that they have merely caught up after a very long time behind but I may be wrong.

I guess it all depends on who you ask coz it comes down to personal preference. I've never flown either but from what I've read here on A.net, ANZ is right up there with SQ and CX service wise.

I would check Skytrax star ratings on www.airlinequality.com . That will give a fairly accurate break down of the performance of each airline across all classes and in fields such as cabin crew attitude/service, IFE quality, seat comfort etc.

From what I have seen on a.net posts, someone saying that airline xyz is great, usually prompts replies that say no it isn't.

kdm - as an NZ f/a I'm no doubt biased, but I believe that our business class PRODUCT (ie seat and IFE) is now definitely superior to SQ's. The SQ CEO admitted as much at the last Star Alliance CEO gathering.

The SERVICE aspect comes down to what you prefer - SQ f/as tend to be more subservient/deferential, while our style is more laidback and friendly. SQ use far more crew on their aircraft than we have the luxury of having (something like 18 compared to 14 on a 744).

Yes I agree with TG992....its all about your preferance. Personally. I think both SQ & NZ are both great airlines but i do prefer NZ more laid back, friendly style. I imagine SQ is quite an autcratic company to work for as well.

Yes NZs new J product definently beats Raflles hands down which is starting to look tired IMHO.

Well maybe it is time to give ANZ another go. I do like the laid back approach to service but then always do feel very spoilt on SQ. Does ANZ have 1st class on the new outfitted cabins. Although not a regular 1st class flier it is a good way to use FF points up when you want over the top comfort and service.

I think ANZ are now flying the 777 into Singapore (which is where I am based at present) Does it go beyond Singapore or is the only option to go to Europe through the US?

And lastly I agree that Raffles is getting a bit tired, and the mostly flat seats are good but you do tend to slip down on a long flight. I assume that with the A380 SQ will put in brand new seats etc through out, maybe this will prompt a refit to he other aircraft over the coming years.

Quoting Kdm (Reply 5): Well maybe it is time to give ANZ another go. I do like the laid back approach to service but then always do feel very spoilt on SQ. Does ANZ have 1st class on the new outfitted cabins. Although not a regular 1st class flier it is a good way to use FF points up when you want over the top comfort and service. I think ANZ are now flying the 777 into Singapore (which is where I am based at present) Does it go beyond Singapore or is the only option to go to Europe through the US? And lastly I agree that Raffles is getting a bit tired, and the mostly flat seats are good but you do tend to slip down on a long flight. I assume that with the A380 SQ will put in brand new seats etc through out, maybe this will prompt a refit to he other aircraft over the coming years.

No we no longer have 1st class but our Business Premier is very very good ..
The seats in Business Premier turn into a totally flat bed ..
Im Also Air NZ crew so a bit biased .. We do not fly beyond Singapore so at the moment Europe is only Accessed via Los Angeles thou talk is that Via Hong Kong looks on the cards ..

Both are great airlines. However, if you are looking to travel regularly, I think SQ may be the way to go just purely because their route network is more extensive than NZ's at the moment.

However, head to head my personla preference would be to travel NZ. Something about the more relaxed atmosphere, seems more personal.

The seating on NZ is now clearly superior in Business and Economy, but of course SQ still has First Class.

SQ has more flight attendants per passenger, so obviously service is more comprehensive with them.

no contest.

SQ (& all Asian airlines for that matter) has MUCH better service than NZ.

Kiwis like Australians don't like being subservient, unlike Asians.

SQ's service levels and refinement are WAY above NZs. Juts a different service culture altogether, and the same goes for QF.
In terms of the physical product, seats, etc-they are more on par.
But I'd fly SQ over NZ anyday.
And to all those who continually label the SQ flight attendants as 'robotic' and simple subservient, they work BLOODY hard-just observe what they do, in any class within a given frame of time and you will be more than impressed, especially the ones in Y class. Lets be honest, when you say the service is 'laid back' on airlines like ANZ, etc....it really means that they are lazy and are not expected to do anywhere near the same amount of work as thier asian counterparts.

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 10): SQ's service levels and refinement are WAY above NZs. Juts a different service culture altogether, and the same goes for QF. In terms of the physical product, seats, etc-they are more on par. But I'd fly SQ over NZ anyday. And to all those who continually label the SQ flight attendants as 'robotic' and simple subservient, they work BLOODY hard-just observe what they do, in any class within a given frame of time and you will be more than impressed, especially the ones in Y class. Lets be honest, when you say the service is 'laid back' on airlines like ANZ, etc....it really means that they are lazy and are not expected to do anywhere near the same amount of work as thier asian counterparts.

Couldn't have said it better myself !!!

Yes I must say the SQ FAs work bloody hard but then so do NZs and QFs -and with less crew to boot. I would not equate laid back with lazy - just different cultures. Just because someone works 12 hours a day does neceassarily make them as productive as someone that works 7 hours a day unless you have the misfortune to work in a factory or a call centre.

BTW...Simplicity.......not having a dig but would you honestly rate Garuda or PAL, AI or Biman above NZ?

5 years ago, I would not have imagined there will be a SQ vs NZ war....Today, I finally witness a historic moment.

Superhub...It could be worse.....QF v NZ....now that would be a war!!!!

Quoting 767ER (Reply 12): BTW...Simplicity.......not having a dig but would you honestly rate Garuda or PAL, AI or Biman above NZ?

OK, point taken ... should have said most major Asian carriers, like CX, JL, KE, CI, China Eastern, Royal Brunei, MH, etc.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 15): OK, point taken ... should have said most major Asian carriers, like CX, JL, KE, CI, China Eastern, Royal Brunei, MH, etc.

You really think KE, CI, Royal Brunei, China Eastern and even JL are better than NZ????
JL maybe, sometimes... but the others???
I seriously have to disagree.
I would go as far as to say the only airlines even in the same league as NZ in the asia pacific region are QF, SQ, MH, CX... maybe TN, TG on a very good day with their new product, and.... nope I think thats about it.

Interesting to see that 'laidback' is classed as lazy...

Working for Qantas i can state that we certainly are not 'lazy' far from it really!!!

You say that they work hard...well lets see...

SQ have 18 flight attendants onboard (747)...
EK have 18 flight attendants onboard (777)...
MH have 19 flight attendants onboard (747)...
KE have 18 flight attendants onboard (747)...
NZ have 14 flight attendants onboard (747)...
QF have 14/15 flight attendants onboard (744/744-3)..

Lets see... we both do EXACTLY the same meal options... we both clean toilets throughout the night.... we both do Water and Juice (QF dont) runs... We both do safety/security checks... oh an extras such as Snack On Q, Water bottles... grabbing call lights...

Now lets see... With a crew of say in Y/C QF have on 3 in the night for our minimum config of 315pax (this can get up to 366pax for 3 flighties).. we still have to do... Call lights, waters, toilets, and security checks, not to mention preparing for the next service...

SQ have 5 flighties on down the back during the night and do exactly the same as us!!!

Now if you think outside the square and LOOK at this you will see that QF/NZ flighties are not lazy...to the contrary we MUST work alot harder with less crew...
Thats the rule of thumb... less crew= more pax = harder work...
more crew= less pax = less work!!!

But back to the original thread...
NZ are fantastic no matter what class you fly!! they are laid back- not lazy as people tend to think... and do work ALOT harder!
Enjoy your next flight with whateva airline it may be and respect the crew!!!!

Cheers

Quoting AirNewZealand (Reply 17): You say that they work hard...well lets see... SQ have 18 flight attendants onboard (747)... EK have 18 flight attendants onboard (777)... MH have 19 flight attendants onboard (747)... KE have 18 flight attendants onboard (747)... NZ have 14 flight attendants onboard (747)... QF have 14/15 flight attendants onboard (744/744-3)..

Oh..be careful about this argument. The SQ supporters will now say: "Look, there is a lower cabin crew/pax ratio on NZ, so fly SQ."

Quoting AirNewZealand (Reply 17): Lets see... we both do EXACTLY the same meal options... we both clean toilets throughout the night.... we both do Water and Juice (QF dont) runs... We both do safety/security checks... oh an extras such as Snack On Q, Water bottles... grabbing call lights...

SQ has newspaper runs in Y, as well as hot towels before EACH meal (distribution And collection, so 2 extra runs), menus, a much wider range of alcoholic beverages AND elaborate cocktails in Y, they are also MUCH quicker (and happier as a rule) to respond to passenger requests and do twice as many water/juice runs on long haul flights.

LOL....Qantas club...

and get ready cause as from March 24th...so will we!!! (Qantas) and alot more too boot...
watch this space...

Incl. a tuck down service offering hot chocolate/green tea range!!!

Enjoy our new service!!

Cheers

PS: It is also a STATED fact that juice onboard flights dehydrates you....thus why we at QF are not allowed to do them unless requested!!! Cheers!

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 19): they are also MUCH quicker (and happier as a rule) to respond to passenger requests and do twice as many water/juice runs on long haul flights.

I wish you'd stop presenting your experiences as biblical fact. On ANY airline you will experience a mixture of staff, just like you do in any other situation in the world. The following comments are pasted verbatim from http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/sia_1a.htm. Before anyone goes moaning about me being an SQ-hater, my flights with them have been pleasant, although unexceptional and my ex-partner was in fact an SQ f/a. I just simply want to illustrate that SQ's style doesn't suit everyone.


Singapore Airlines
During my recent flight taken with SQ from HKG to SIN, cabin crews did not respond to call button - I pressed the button 4 times and there were still no body came. They seemed to do just what their job suppose to to and not anything extra

But the most disappointing feature of the trip to MEL from SIN was the surly attitude of the female flight attendant and male steward serving on the upper deck of the B747-400 . Not only were they rude and arrogant, they lacked the courtesy and manners when speaking to full fare paying passengers.

The service from the flight attendants was also poor. They did not do a drink service before meals like on other airlines and they were pretty rushed to get trays back, regardless if a passenger was finished.

On board the FAs were a mix of either very helpful or very disinterested

Service was just very average, and the cabin crew appeared to be mechanical not intrested.

Since this is a night flight, crew disappeared after serving meals. My request for soft drinks during meal time was forgotten and needed to be reminded.

Shouldn't the crew be trained to ensure both are on the trolley in the first place and be trained to no the difference between a German Reisling and French White?

Come on guys/gals!!
All because NZ have re-fitted their cabins years after it's competitors have does not mean that they can go head to head in battle.
Flat beds does not neseceraly mean that you automatically have a great airlne!
Does NZ offer a free shuttle service to downtown AKL just as SQ do in SIN?
Does NZ even have a premium cabin on par with the likes of BA EK,CX,MH,TH,SQ or even QF for that matter?
Does NZ have the extensive route network offered by SQ?
All NZ is doing is merely catching up. Thats all!
Irrespective of the number of crew provided by certain carriers, the fact remains that they do so to provide "additional" service. Not only on board but also on the ground.
So come on, please! NZ vs SQ???
Don't think so!

Also...
ofcourse theyll do twice as many drinks runs... they basiclly have twice as many crew!!!

Cheers

It is rather annoying to see that Austrtalians on this thread aren't able to look past NZ and be objective about what NZ is doing to consider that maybe they are doing real well at the moment.

There are some stupid points on this thread containing no substance.

Fly!
Come on!
What NZ is doing is great and LOOOOONNNNNG overdue!
But you cannot compare NZ with the likes of EK, BA, and SQ!!

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 20): It is also a STATED fact that juice onboard flights dehydrates you

?? Carbonated beverages like Coke aren't the best way to stay hydrated, but juice doesn't dehydrate. Alcohol, however, does.

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 20): Incl. a tuck down service offering hot chocolate/green tea range!!!

Caffeine is the last thing I want before trying to sleep...

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 22): Does NZ even have a premium cabin on par with the likes of BA EK,CX,MH,TH,SQ or even QF for that matter?

Um.. yes .. we do.

Next question?

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 10): it really means that they are lazy and are not expected to do anywhere near the same amount of work as thier asian counterparts.

You're definately plain biased towards NZ. I understand though, I guess I can say UA's service is better than your QF's then right?   

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 24): t is rather annoying to see that Austrtalians on this thread aren't able to look past NZ

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 24): There are some stupid points on this thread containing no substance.

  

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 25): Fly! Come on! What NZ is doing is great and LOOOOONNNNNG overdue! But you cannot compare NZ with the likes of EK, BA, and SQ!!

I agree they are long overdue.

Comparisons are difficult. I could tell you of negative experiences on both BA, EK and SQ along with fantastic ones. It's subjective. My experiences on NZ have been great so to me they are on a par.

The times I have flown QF have not been great so QF is not an airline I choose to fly BUT thats been my experience, to then go on to make the leap that QF is lousy is not credible.

[Edited 2006-03-05 07:29:39]

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 24): It is rather annoying to see that Austrtalians on this thread aren't able to look past NZ and be objective about what NZ is doing to consider that maybe they are doing real well at the moment.

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 28): You're definately plain biased towards NZ. I understand though, I guess I can say UA's service is better than your QF's then right?

Not true at all. In fact, for the record, I consider the Y service on Qantas to be quite similar than NZ. The same indifferent 'laid back' type service with the occasional exceptional flight with a fantastic crew.
The observations I have made directly onboard SQ are consistent and I am totally convinced that they are on any given day, more attentive, efficient and provide a vastly superior service level to most other airlines, including those we have discussed.
So for me, no contest at all between NZ or even QF in favour of SQ.
Sigh, it's such a pity they have such a crap frequent flyer programe though.


But Tinkerbelle-seriously....you can't really compare UA to Qantas or ANZ.

[Edited 2006-03-05 07:58:23]

Could your preference for SQ's service have anything to do with the fact that you're of Asian extraction, by any chance?

One big difference is that SQ typically has young female flight attendants who are under 30 and easy on the eye, while NZ employ more male attendants who sometimes can be rude and maybe kinda racist to Asian faces, according to several Chinese friends of mine.

Often the cries of racism come when we enforce cabin safety rules - on the HKG route overweight and excess cabin baggage are a particular problem. It seems these are handed to family and friends to hold during the checkin/cabin baggage vetting process, then reclaimed I have NEVER experienced an NZ cabin attendant being genuinely racist.

BTW, Xiaotung, would you mind giving me your email address, by contacting me through my profile? I'd like to ask you a couple of questions.

Before the war continues, let me just say that it depends on the crew on the flight on that particular day. I have seen people being treated like crap on SQ, but then again I have seen some good things. Same goes for every airline.

The style is a personal preference as well. Laid back does not mean lazy, I think it means a bit more improvising on the part of the FA.

For example, I like how NZ FA's leave you alone when you are sleeping when breakfast comes around, while all my SQ flights so far I have been waken up by a FA shoving a hot towel into my face waking me up even when I don't want to eat (This is with the do not disturb sticker thing on as well).

Its a matter of personal preference!!!

From my experience with both airlines,

*Product (Seats, IFE etc...): Air New Zealand.
*Service, amenities, food: Singapore Airlines.

NZ747

[Edited 2006-03-05 08:39:08]

For service, I think SQ is classier and a bit better as a whole. NZ's ground service is terrible, in my case, LAX and AKL. Checkin counters and gates are crammed at some remote corner. They told forever to check you in. I must say NZ seats are much more comfortable, but those planes are old. I am not complaining but SQ is better.

Just to pull this thread back form the brink of going down obscure path of this country v my country...

TG992's orginal post last paragraph is very much whats its about.

I have flown SQ (Business Class). The service was excellant. Very attentive. Possibily overly so for me and my wife - there was more than a strong hint of 'subservient/deferential' service - which I do not expect from ANY person providing a service.

I have flown NZ (Business Class). The service was excellant. Attentive. Polite. Treated like mature passengers. As individuals. Welcoming, but not over imposing.

I have flown QF (Business Class). The service was poor. Rude FA's (bar one). Summed up as 'disinterested'. Never again. But this bad flight (4 years ago - and inforced by another bad eperience in Y class 6 months later) has 'set' my view about flying QF (and Yes - I know I should re-experience them - but why should I as a consumer take the risk ?)

That's it. As a passenger based on my experience above I would choose NZ (or SQ) over QF. My view is unique and differenent from everyone elses on board ths same flights. My poor view of QF may not have been shared by the other 349 paxs on the same flight.

It just highlights what a difficult job (and an important one) FA's do. Trying to please all 350+ people onboard is a real art. But an important one as it does influence peoples decisions for future flights.

Quoting Vtdl (Reply 36): For service, I think SQ is classier and a bit better as a whole. NZ's ground service is terrible, in my case, LAX and AKL.

Well NZ doesn't really have a say as to where its gates/check-in and how crammed the check-in and gates are, thats upto the airport

SQ still beats NZ hands down. But, I think this is just because NZ only have 14 flight attendants on their 747's. NZ have bigger ptv's (in economy), bigger seat pitches, but I still think SQ's AVOD is better than NZ's.
Does anybody here think NZ is capable of getting a 5 star rating on Skytrax?

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 32): One big difference is that SQ typically has young female flight attendants who are under 30 and easy on the eye, while NZ employ more male attendants who sometimes can be rude and maybe kinda racist to Asian faces, according to several Chinese friends of mine.

This comment is interesting !!! just because im male doesnt mean you will get bad service from me and as for racist personally i believe it is because of a language barrier, most crew do not speak the local asian language we are flying to in asia, making communication more difficult for us .. Yes its always very hard for us to show off our great relaxed service when there are language barriers...Also most of our Asian Passengers are used to the service provided by Asian carriers so they are not used to our relaxed style ..The crew i have worked with both male female (nz asian/ and nz european) on the whole try their best to provide a quality service to all passengers ...

Quoting TG992 (Reply 31): Could your preference for SQ's service have anything to do with the fact that you're of Asian extraction, by any chance?

Quite a ridiculous statement, but no, not at all. Just ask the thousands of Australians who have enabled SQ to fill thrice daily flights out of SYD and MEL.

Quoting 767ER (Reply 4): Yes NZs new J product definently beats Raflles hands down which is starting to look tired IMHO.

Quoting Kdm (Reply 5): I agree that Raffles is getting a bit tired,

SQ will be introducing new Raffles class seats with the introduction of the B777-300ER scheduled for Q3, though there are rumors this may have been pushed back to Q4 to coincide with the late delivery of the WhaleJet (which will also get the new Raffles seats). I'm looking forward to it because the SpaceBeds leave something to be desired.

As for service, I fly SQ a lot in J class. My only service complaint is that they get my drink order wrong too often (sparkling water, no ice, no citrus shouldn't be difficult). Aside from that, the service is excellent. Unless I chug it down, I cannot empty my water glass because the stewardesses are so attentive. One recent case stands out. I had a four hour night flight on SQ in J. I was handed a menu as soon as I was seated and I told the stewardess that I wouldn't be eating because I needed to sleep the entire flight. She asked "Would you like to have your meal now?" They served me three courses before pushback, dessert as we were pushing back, and collected the dessert about when we got clearance to move to the power position. I don't easily imagine any other airline I've flown would do that.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 42): SQ will be introducing new Raffles class seats with the introduction of the B777-300ER

So what makes you think that SQ's flights to AKL will be flown by the 77W?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 43): So what makes you think that SQ's flights to AKL will be flown by the 77W?

I didn't write that SQ would operate the B777-300ER to AKL (or CHC). However, SQ will be replacing all the SpaceBeds with the new seat.

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 40): This comment is interesting !!! just because im male doesnt mean you will get bad service from me and as for racist personally i believe it is because of a language barrier, most crew do not speak the local asian language we are flying to in asia, making communication more difficult for us .. Yes its always very hard for us to show off our great relaxed service when there are language barriers...Also most of our Asian Passengers are used to the service provided by Asian carriers so they are not used to our relaxed style ..The crew i have worked with both male female (nz asian/ and nz european) on the whole try their best to provide a quality service to all passengers ...

Thanks for sharing your opinion. The experiences my friends had wasn't because of language barriers. They attend university here in New Zealand. I will tell you what they expereinced. Both happened on HKG-AKL route.

My friend A feels a little hungary and he presses the crew call button on his seat hoping to get some snack. One of your crew members comes and tells my friend immediately that the button is for emergency only and not to touch it again unless it's emergency. My friends fights back and tells him that his hunger IS an emergency and swears never take NZ flights again. If not mistaken, that button is for passengers who need help. I have pressed the button asking for food, ordering inflight duty free, and all kinds of things on Asian carriers. I can be wrong, but the experience certainly is unpleasant.

My friend B asks one of your cabin crew for some drinks but he doesn't hear him so my friends slightly touches his shoulder to draw his attention. The f/a jumps up as if he was sexually harassed and demands an apology. Never have I seen a passenger apologizing to a f/a like that. Well, he's not going to take NZ flight ever again as well.

My friends could be wrong maybe I am not sure, it's just the way your cabin crew censure my friends as if they did something awfully wrong. They gotta at least ask them nicely what to do and what not to do.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 43): So what makes you think that SQ's flights to AKL will be flown by the 77W?

SQ281/2 will be operated by 77W...

As for airlines I'll tell you once I've flown NZ longhaul. I can't fault SQ, but I can't fault my many of my colleagues either.

Our new product, barring a few issues is top notch in both forms of economy, and to many preferences in business at all. I have to say I like the seats in economy a lot, but I'm unsure if I'll enjoy the business seats until I try them in April.

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 32): NZ employ more male attendants who sometimes can be rude and maybe kinda racist to Asian faces, according to several Chinese friends of mine

funny how on asians flying on non-asian airlines feel being discriminated while on asian airlines, asian passengers complain the crew treat westerners better.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 39): SQ still beats NZ hands down. But, I think this is just because NZ only have 14 flight attendants on their 747's

it's not the number of FAs the matter but the ratio between crew and passengers..
i dunno how many pax SQ configures their 744s and NZ as well so for all we know SQ might just put 300 seats on their 744s while NZ puts 400.
anyone can enlighten how many seats they put on their planes?

something tells me that SQ has less seats. SQ has First / Biz / Economy class on and NZ with only Biz / Premier Economy / Economy.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 26): Coke aren't the best way to stay hydrated, but juice doesn't dehydrate. Alcohol, however, does.

What's your airline, if they serve coke onboard international, consider me sold!

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 34): Laid back does not mean lazy, I think it means a bit more improvising on the part of the FA.

I have two thoughts on this. I agree with QFClub in that basically if they stick more people on board than needed, and above the level of others, they're doing that for the purpose of service. However I do have this one comment as far as 'laid back' is concerned. Soon, I am planning a trip to Hong Kong hopefully impress my soon to be partner (little shopping trip). Now, It is almost certain that I will only be flying on either virgin atlantic or Qantas, because i can't see Asian flight crew reacting very well to a bunch of gay boys sitting in the back of economy drinking way too much champange and then one falling asleep in the others arms. As much as I like SQ, I can't see the likes of them or Cathay being to happy about this (maybe somebody would care to comment?). I don't however, see Virgin or QF staff having a problem with this, provided we are right up the back of economy and aren't making too much noise. So this is perhaps part of what 'laid back' means?

If it were just me travelling alone however, it would be a different story. Comment most welcome.

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 41): Quoting TG992 (Reply 31): Could your preference for SQ's service have anything to do with the fact that you're of Asian extraction, by any chance? Quite a ridiculous statement, but no, not at all. Just ask the thousands of Australians who have enabled SQ to fill thrice daily flights out of SYD and MEL.

I completely agree with QFClub. That is a ridiculous statement. I'm a blonde haired blue eyed Australian and I couldn't agree more re SQ. I'm one of those people jumping on the thrice daily.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 48): It is almost certain that I will only be flying on either virgin atlantic or Qantas, because i can't see Asian flight crew reacting very well to a bunch of gay boys sitting in the back of economy drinking way too much champange and then one falling asleep in the others arms. As much as I like SQ, I can't see the likes of them or Cathay being to happy about this (maybe somebody would care to comment?). I don't however, see Virgin or QF staff having a problem with this, provided we are right up the back of economy and aren't making too much noise.

VS are perhaps more welcoming of affection between passengers than any other airline, regardless of sexual preference. I would expect SQ to look the other way, so long as one isn't kissing in front of other passengers, again regardless of sexual preference. If you really mean to fall asleep in each other's arms, then covering up with a blanket would probably suffice on SQ. A modicum of discretion goes a long way.

whats a 77w air new zealands fleet is very small

One thing has just occurred to me about ANZ that I find really annoying.

Due to the odd health and safety rules in New Zealand, ANZ will not allow families to take prams to the gate but make you check them in. They also do not provide them at the aircraft door when the plane arrives in Auckland.

Although strictly speaking this is New Zealand being pathetic rather than a flaw with ANZ, however SQ have shown some initiative with regards to this and I believe employ SQ handlers to bring the prams up and down from the aircraft door to cargo.

Hopefully this has changed now as it was over 12 months ago that my wife flew Qantas out of Auckland and was told that ANZ had the same rules and that it was only SQ that had found a fix to the problem.

May sound silly but it is these small things that make going back to ANZ seem like a step backward despite new seats.

Some of these posts are just bizarre.

The equation is really simple.

COMFORT: Air NZ beats SQ hands down in Economy (34 inch pitch) and Business (genuinely flat bed) as well as scoring at least a draw in IFE.

SERVICE: SQ has more flight attendants, who are very attentive, but because of their diverse background they often muck up drinks orders.

The Qantas shriners who knock Air NZ make me laugh. I not long ago took a QF 747-300 configured for 450 passengers to Honolulu. No flat beds in Business, and 398 passengers squashed into Economy with a 31 inch pitch!

In contrast, Air NZ's 747-400 aircraft have 393 seats. 46 are horizontal flat beds (i.e. superior to the angled Qantas Skybed), 23 are Premium Economy with a 40 inch pitch (impossible in Economy on SQ or QF), and 324 are in Economy with a spacious 34 inch pitch.

Read that again. Qantas have more passengers in Economy than Air NZ has on the entire aircraft!

A number of my Australian compatriots like to view Air NZ as a basket case. They see Asian airlines as models of comfort.

What, Emirates with their 31 inch pitch on A340s?

What, Cathay with their 32 inch pitch?

Singapore with their 32 inch pitch?

Even Virgin Atlantic, which has an identical Business Class product to Air NZ, gives both Premium Economy and Economy passengers 2 inches less than Air NZ.

Yes, Australian government lobbying of the NZ government almost brought NZ down with Ansett.

But Air New Zealand, while it may not have as many flight attendants as Asian airlines, has more modern, spacious seating than any other airline in the world. And that is a statement of fact.

I like them both, but from my point of view SIA will always win when you can only fly Air New Zealand from NZ to Europe via the US (LAX in particular).

No amount of great inflight service makes up for the hassle of mandatory US immigration/security for transit pax and picking up and rechecking bags etc etc in LAX. It makes a very long trip a lot longer. An hour or so in Changi with no hassle for your connecting flights makes it a no-brainer for SIA if you're flying LHR-AKL.

The minute ANZ start flying via Asia though...

As per usual there is a fair amount of mind numbingly repetitive sh*te posted on a thread on here. As it involves SQ then that tends to attract similar comments as usual. I firmly believe we should make the 'SQ F/A's are robotic' a sticky at the top of the page, to save the idiots who post it the effort of repeating themselves time and again.

Having said that, there are one or two decent and interesting posts every now and again. So, trying to address the issue in the OP;

Is NZ service now on a par with SQ ?. No. It hasn't ever been, isn't now and therefore I believe we can assume it won't ever be. There is no shame in this, as in my experience only CX and MH are anywhere near. NH are also good but a level below those three. I like NZ, and I appreciate ANY airline who gives 34" of legroom in Y.

They have a new business class seat/product. Excellent, and not before time as the old one was looking tired. Lets leave aside the fact that rather than create something of their own, they have had to ask VS can they copy their UCS product, and acknowledge that it is one of the best J classes around, like VS.

A number of airlines like MH/LH/NH/TG etc are also currently improving their J product. Now, before anyone correctly points out that NZ's new J is better than all of those four I mention, it is worth remembering that all four of those still have F !.Not only that, they are also updating their F cabins (LH still to come) at the same time.

I agree that the Spacebed is starting to look a little tired, but SQ introduced this a few years ago now and will start to replace it with a brand new J product on the 773ER and A380.

It will be interesting to see what that is, but whatever it is, you're still going to get the same fabulous service they've provided for years.

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 30): But Tinkerbelle-seriously....you can't really compare UA to Qantas or ANZ.

No way in hell. That was just something to bring up the nationality thing factor.

sia are very good excellent cabin crew and they smile

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 41): Quite a ridiculous statement, but no, not at all. Just ask the thousands of Australians who have enabled SQ to fill thrice daily flights out of SYD and MEL.

Speaking of ridiculous statements!!!!!!!

What are prams?

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 48): What's your airline, if they serve coke onboard international, consider me sold!

It probably would help endure Delta's international service... In the South, Coke is everything, "Pop" doesn't exist, and Soda is considered to be a formal way of saying it.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 42): They served me three courses before pushback, dessert as we were pushing back, and collected the dessert about when we got clearance to move to the power position. I don't easily imagine any other airline I've flown would do that

That's impressive.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 59): What are prams?

Pram is a short form of perambulator. Americans usually call them strollers. Also called baby carriages.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 59): That's impressive.

Indeed. I was impressed. Most of my flying is on LH, SQ, and UA (I'm well enslaved by Star Alliance frequent flyer programs) though I occasionally fly AC, US, SK, LO, OS, TG et al. Whenever I board an SQ flight, I'm completely relaxed knowing that nothing worse than a mixed up drink will happen and even that won't be blamed on me. Whenever I board a UA flight, I'm apprehensive about all the various service problems. LH is in between. The best service I get from LH is about as good as the worst service I get from SQ, while the worst service I get from LH is almost as good as the best service I get from UA. Many of my UA flights have one good FA, but that doesn't really make up for the others.

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 45): Thanks for sharing your opinion. The experiences my friends had wasn't because of language barriers. They attend university here in New Zealand. I will tell you what they expereinced. Both happened on HKG-AKL route. My friend A feels a little hungary and he presses the crew call button on his seat hoping to get some snack. One of your crew members comes and tells my friend immediately that the button is for emergency only and not to touch it again unless it's emergency. My friends fights back and tells him that his hunger IS an emergency and swears never take NZ flights again. If not mistaken, that button is for passengers who need help. I have pressed the button asking for food, ordering inflight duty free, and all kinds of things on Asian carriers. I can be wrong, but the experience certainly is unpleasant. My friend B asks one of your cabin crew for some drinks but he doesn't hear him so my friends slightly touches his shoulder to draw his attention. The f/a jumps up as if he was sexually harassed and demands an apology. Never have I seen a passenger apologizing to a f/a like that. Well, he's not going to take NZ flight ever again as well. My friends could be wrong maybe I am not sure, it's just the way your cabin crew censure my friends as if they did something awfully wrong. They gotta at least ask them nicely what to do and what not to do.

Im sorry they had those experiences ...As for the call bell there is no excuse to be rude that is not the normal attitude for NZ crew.. As for being touched im going to generalise here and from MY point of view we do get touched alot by Asian passengers especially Korean Passengers in perticular ..From our point of view its very rude to get touched grabbed etc .. From the pasengers opinion its probably quite acceptable in their Asian culture ..It sounds like this crew member could of explained this a bit better and your friend having lived in NZ should know that new zealanders do not like being touched by people they do not know ..

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 32): NZ employ more male attendants who sometimes can be rude and maybe kinda racist to Asian faces, according to several Chinese friends of mine.

That's not true! I am asian too. I flew ANZ from SYD-AKL-SFO-AKL-SYD and SYD-CHC-SYD. I had a wonderful experience on ANZ inflight service. ANZ cabin crews were sooo friendly and really kind to me I've ever seen. They looked after me and pax very well and helped me to do something in the airport. Most ANZ cabin crews in economy class knew/remembered me because I am like VIP. For example, when the breakfast was served, I couldnt decide which food I like. Then I was surprised that she opened the aluminum foil and showed me the food. Then I could pick one easily. In addition, one of the cabin crews invited me to visit the flight deck and have chat with the Captain. I have a photo of ANZ captain in SFO airport. He was a great guy. Most New Zealanders who were my seatmeats seem very nice and have lots of sense of humor. We talked sometimes about our trip. Of course, I promise I will fly ANZ next time! I would love to work for ANZ one day or move to NZ.

I recall I did touch maroi male cabin crew when i was in the gallery. I tried to call/tell him like "excuse me" but he couldnt hear that. Then I touched him softly and asked him that I was hungry and do you have any snack. Then he gave me some pack of chocolate cookies...yummy.

So far, I would love to say thank you to all ANZ cabin crews for taking care of me a lot. I really appreciate it. That's why I gave 10/10 for the ANZ's best cabin crews in the skytrax. Well done! ANZ cabin crews

[Edited 2006-03-06 02:51:09]

Hi FlyboyOz, I personally have had great experience with NZ as well. Regarding the Asian routes, the service and attitude from f/a are generally better on AKL-SIN than AKL-HKG. I don't know if Singapore being an English speaking country has anything to do with it.

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 62): I recall I did touch maroi male cabin crew when i was in the gallery. I tried to call/tell him like "excuse me" but he couldnt hear that. Then I touched him softly and asked him that I was hungry and do you have any snack.

Different cultures, of course, handle touching differently. That seems like a prudent way to go about it.

This thread ought to be locked... It's getting ridiculous by the minute.

Well I have a sensible question. If all the talk on this thread about NZ 'just catching up' is correct, what sense am I to make of the story on QFs big 787 order in this month's 'Australian Aviation', which says that when they got a look at NZ's new cabin QANTAS management 'went into melt down', with one quoted as saying that NZ 'have gone from being the airline of last resort to the airline of first choice.' ?

Quoting Mattlad (Reply 51): whats a 77w

77W is the B777-300ER

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 42): I don't easily imagine any other airline I've flown would do that.

Especially not in J when it is a 3 class carrier.

Some carriers have an option to take your meal pre-flight in the lounges so you can just sleep on the plane for transatlantic flights. That's a pretty cool concept.

CO has the "executive meal" option (and some other airlines have similar) where they bring your whole meal at once right after takeoff. I took this option going to germany, and it was nice, but I couldn't imagine them offering it before takeoff, though they do make you sit there for 1/2 hour after boarding and could easily do so.

Maybe I'll email them and suggest it. Thing is, i don't think they have time to get everything warmed up. Wonder how SQ pulled that part off. What meal choices did you make?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 68): i don't think they have time to get everything warmed up. Wonder how SQ pulled that part off. What meal choices did you make?

I had a cold appetiser and a salad while they were heating the main (fish curry) course. It was all very efficient.

it would be interesting to know which aircraft sia will use on each route.with all the fleet changes

Quoting Mattlad (Reply 70): it would be interesting to know which aircraft sia will use on each route.with all the fleet changes

SQ will have the late night 2 class 772 flight converted to a 3 class 77W in November, other than that I don't know...

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 71): SQ will have the late night 2 class 772 flight converted to a 3 class 77W in November, other than that I don't know...

I guess they will go from 12 weekly to double daily then!?

Is there reall that much demand for First Class on SQ ex AKL?!