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Topic: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Bruce
Posted 2006-03-05 19:13:26 and read 8906 times.

From a spotters list we can see the end of the line for the Boeing 717.

The last remaining customers are of course Midwest and AirTran. The final two for Midwest are built, awaiting final inspection and delivery (N927ME / N928ME) and then the last two for AirTran are finishing this month. By the end of March they should be all done. Total Built = 156

that will be the end of a long and successful era - the 717, MD80, and DC9 were all in the same family - dating back 40 years. Also, the last of the Douglas aircraft designs.

Are there any Midwest folks on here who might know the delivery date at MKE for N928ME?

Bruce

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Bruce
Posted 2006-03-05 19:29:24 and read 8876 times.

The last one is already pictured, under construction back in January

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter



bruce

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Srbmod
Posted 2006-03-05 19:32:20 and read 8869 times.

How fitting that AirTran got the first one delivered and the last one delivered.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Sideflare75
Posted 2006-03-06 00:23:12 and read 8630 times.

Quoting Bruce (Thread starter):
Are there any Midwest folks on here who might know the delivery date at MKE for N928ME?

I believe it was the end of May but I'll check tomorrow at work to be sure. N927ME gets delivered this week.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: YOW
Posted 2006-03-06 00:51:39 and read 8574 times.

Sad to see the last of the Douglas-era jets being built. Except on RJs, I wonder if T-tail aircraft designs will ever be considered in the future?

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: 777WT
Posted 2006-03-06 01:15:14 and read 8517 times.

Quoting Bruce (Thread starter):
N927ME

There's a Cessna 172 Skyhawk at HPN used for flight training under the reg N297ME !

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: BR715-A1-30
Posted 2006-03-06 01:38:36 and read 8467 times.

I would like to know the delivery date of N928ME. I would like to go see it land. I work right across the 'I' from MKE, so it would be cool..

Does anyone know if they will allow the public to see it, or no? I doubt it, but it would be cool.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Bruce
Posted 2006-03-06 02:50:52 and read 8381 times.

Sideflare, is it going to be Tuesday?

BR715, maybe we can meet up someday when i come down there to shoot some pics. I was hoping to find the date for the last one so i could shoot it. I doubt there will be any ceremony to it...its just another plane for them. it isn't even the last one built. Maybe airTran will have a ceremony for getting the very last one.

bruce

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Sideflare75
Posted 2006-03-06 03:20:35 and read 8327 times.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 7):
Sideflare, is it going to be Tuesday?

I'll find out tomorrow and let you know along with the estimated delivery date for N928ME.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: KrisYYZ
Posted 2006-03-06 15:41:55 and read 7816 times.

What a shame!!

The B717 was a powerful plane, just like the MD-11. I've herd pilots say that the 717 is a "pilots plane" in relation to the planes response.

Guess that's another MD planes I will never fly  Sad


KrisYYZ

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Dacman
Posted 2006-03-06 15:43:30 and read 7799 times.

N927ME (5153) will deliver tomorrow Tuesday, with the last deliveries coming in May as it stands now, I'll have more info following tomorrows delivery.

Mike
Dacman
LAX/LGB Local

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Rpaillard
Posted 2006-03-06 15:48:24 and read 7733 times.

It's also a pitty for Long Beach. Sad, but the end an of era  Sad

Too bad for me, it's to late to see the DOUGLAS factory (scraped last year I think?)

Is there still something to see in Long Beach? I will be in Los Angeles in late May.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: LMP737
Posted 2006-03-06 15:54:22 and read 7675 times.

Really sad. I started working at Boeing Long Beach right after the first flight of the 717. There was a lot of hope for the aircraft. Unfortanetly things did not pan out for the 717 the way we had hoped. A peice of aviation history is coming to an end.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Cruiser
Posted 2006-03-06 16:03:50 and read 7577 times.

This is a sad time, especially with the 757 line recently being closed, and now the 717 line. Although, there will still be many flying the sky's. I mean, we will see DC9's for a long time yet plying the skys.

Now, I think that we can officially say that this is the beginning of the end for the 717.

James

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Upsldplaner1
Posted 2006-03-06 16:11:50 and read 7511 times.

It is sad to see no more being made. I hope we see them flying as long as the DC-8, still flying for UPS. I have to say as a traveler with only one other person I always looked forward to flying a DC-9, MD80 and 717 because my mom liked the isle and I liked the window. I like how quiet they are too. Thank god for airlines like Midwest, Northwest, Alaska, American, and AeroMexico. I even have a beach towel from the Long Beach store with a MD80 on it. All you folks in LGB we really enjoy what you make and will miss it!!!!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Mke717spotter
Posted 2006-03-06 16:19:29 and read 7424 times.

is there ANY chance at all that maybe in 10 years or so that the 717 line could reopen agian if there was demand for it? - JW

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-03-06 16:31:26 and read 7314 times.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 15):
is there ANY chance at all that maybe in 10 years or so that the 717 line could reopen agian if there was demand for it?

Sadly, fat chance! I believe that there are redevelopment plans (for an office park) in the works for the current facilities at Long Beach.

The only thing that one could hope for is that the so-called future successor to the 737 (797?) will feature some of the 717's attributes mixed in; maybe possibly the T-tail.

[Edited 2006-03-06 16:32:15]

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Rpaillard
Posted 2006-03-06 16:33:53 and read 7275 times.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 15):
is there ANY chance at all that maybe in 10 years or so that the 717

I could not see that! Do not forget that it's a pretty old design now.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Chase
Posted 2006-03-06 16:44:20 and read 7212 times.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 2):
How fitting that AirTran got the first one delivered and the last one delivered.

Is the first one still flying for AirTran? After delivery, of course, it would be awesome to get a photo of the first and last 717 next to each other!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Scoljet
Posted 2006-03-06 17:05:22 and read 7043 times.

Yes the design may be a bit old but the aircraft is more than capable and probably among the best in the 100 seater category. I love Boeing but I think they rushed to kill all the MD lines too soon. The market for 75-105 seaters is exploding and Boeing has nothing to offer. Too bad, I've flown on several 17's and they are very nice indeed. My two cents!!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: AviationAddict
Posted 2006-03-06 17:06:41 and read 7009 times.

I absolutely love the 717; it's a shame it didn't live up to it's sales potential (I blame the bonehead execs at NW for a huge part of that failure). But anyways, the 717 was the first non 737/A320 that I had ever flown on; a Midwest flight a few years back (I don't recall the reg number,but my flight was only it's second flight after being delivered - it had flown from LGA to MKE to BOS and I was on the flight back to MKE from BOS). Everything about that plane seemed better than anything else I had ever been on (Those beautiful Recaro leather seats, the classical music playing in the background and the fresh baked cookies YX serves help too!). The lighting was better, the overhead bins were bigger and more thougtfully shapped and of course, the flight was so damn quiet, the 717 is without a doubt the quietest mainline/large RJ I have ever seen. I will miss the 717 a great deal, I just hope they continue to fly for many years to come. I guess I'll just need to find a ton of reasons to go to MKE, anyone know any good bars out there?!  Wink

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: MidnightMike
Posted 2006-03-06 17:30:06 and read 6792 times.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 15):
is there ANY chance at all that maybe in 10 years or so that the 717 line could reopen agian if there was demand for it? - JW

Not in the same area, the location where the 717 Production Plant is located will be torn down...

Any future Boeing aircraft will come out of Seattle....

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Vulindlela744
Posted 2006-03-06 17:30:36 and read 6792 times.

Very sad indeed!!!!!!!!! As a f/a at AirTran I suppose I'll be flying on this palne quite often. The last of the MD's That is really big. Love live McDonell-Douglas

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Flashmeister
Posted 2006-03-06 17:42:51 and read 6697 times.

156 sales ain't bad, guys. Comparatively:

737-600: 75 orders
A318: 67 orders (accounting for the 15 cancelled HP 318s)
E195: 29 orders as of Q4 2005

So, even though these aircraft are suited to different missions, it does appear that 717, thanks to AirTran and Midwest, will have nearly as many deliveries as its closest three competitors combined.

Not bad.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-03-06 17:54:38 and read 6601 times.

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 20):
I absolutely love the 717; it's a shame it didn't live up to it's sales potential (I blame the bonehead execs at NW for a huge part of that failure).

Truth be told, there's several circumstances (I mentioned this in past threads) that had just one of them changed; maybe 717 production would still continue:

1. Had SAS (a long-time DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 operator) opted for the type instead of the much rarer-736 (they probably thought the MD-95/717 would have never seen production following the Boeing merger).

2. Had AA kept the inherited from TW 717s and continued their order. After much hagling w/Boeing over the high TW leases; Boeing did offer AA a one-for-one swap with their old F100s, but AA stupidly threw in a clause that stipulated that Boeing could not sell their F100s to a competitor (who besides US & Midway II were flying the type back then?). That clause ultimately killed the deal and, in essence, signed the death warrant of 717 production.

3a. Had other airlines (mainly legacy carrriers) opted for the type instead going RJ happy on many would-be 717 routes. I'm surprised DL (another long-time DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 operator) didn't opt for their own 717s.

3b. Had scope clauses allowed airlines to fly the type under a regional banner (as opposed to mainline).

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-03-06 18:04:08 and read 6527 times.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 23):
A318: 67 orders (accounting for the 15 cancelled HP 318s)

Keep in mind that the A318 suffered an early blow when AA cancelled TW's order.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 23):
E195: 29 orders as of Q4 2005

How many E190 orders are there? B6 put in a sizable order plus US recently modified their E170 order to include E190s.

Quoting Flashmeister (Reply 23):
it does appear that 717, thanks to AirTran and Midwest, will have nearly as many deliveries as its closest three competitors combined.

Don't forget HA with their original thirteen 717 plane order; granted a couple of them were returned and went ultimately to FL. Also, let's not forget the TW order (30 out a 50-plane order were produced) that helped allow 717 production to actually happen.

How many 717s did/do Impulse/Qantaslink/JetStar had/have?

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Lightsaber
Posted 2006-03-06 18:37:34 and read 6264 times.

Quoting YOW (Reply 4):
Sad to see the last of the Douglas-era jets being built. Except on RJs, I wonder if T-tail aircraft designs will ever be considered in the future?

Like it or not, there are significant weight and MX advantages to putting the engines under the wing (not to mention cabin noise). Heck, Honda's "over the wing" design might displace rear mounted engines. Why does this matter? If engines aren't on the tail, the added costs of a T-tail often do not make sense.

What I do expect is a "V-tail" commercial airliner some day. Reducing the number of surfaces sticking out into the wind reduces weight, drag, and MX. Not much, but every little bit helps.

It is sad to see the 717 go. If AA had been able to swap F100's for 717's, that would have been a huge lifeline for the program. But as fun as speculation is, we have to deal with reality.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 24):
3a. Had other airlines (mainly legacy carrriers) opted for the type instead going RJ happy on many would-be 717 routes. I'm surprised DL (another long-time DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 operator) didn't opt for their own 717s.

Good point. If scope clauses/pilot pay would have allowed efficient 717 operation, this could have added another 50 to 100 717's to the fleet.

One of the things that hurt the 717 is many airlines are hesitant to buy an airframe until there is a resale market. This is where a "family" really helps? Why? The "rule of thumb" is that once there are 20+ airlines operating 400+ of an airframe family, resale is easy. This the 717 never acheived.

Lightsaber

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PillowTester
Posted 2006-03-06 19:18:50 and read 5979 times.

I think the saddest part about the end of the 717 is that it was truly a full size aircraft for the 100 seat market.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Steeler83
Posted 2006-03-06 21:22:50 and read 5773 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
The only thing that one could hope for is that the so-called future successor to the 737 (797?) will feature some of the 717's attributes mixed in; maybe possibly the T-tail.

Make it a tri-jet to take on a 727-esque appearance... My one friend tole me that those birds, for the time they were built, were very fuel efficient (and that's technology from the '60s!) What if they were to bring some of those characteristics back, especially with today's technology? (Don't tell me fat chance either! Is it a rule for people not to dream?)

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Vhqpa
Posted 2006-03-07 04:03:54 and read 5604 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 25):
How many 717s did/do Impulse/Qantaslink/JetStar had/have?

there were 14 in total 8 impulse aircraft and 6 ex-TWA aircraft all 8 ex-impulse aircraft are now with Qantaslink/NJS while 5 of the ex-TWA aircraft are active with Jetstar the other ex TWA 717 (VH-VQF I believe?) has been stored quite sad really. I glad to say I was fortunate enough to have flown on a 717 myself



Jason

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Edelag
Posted 2006-03-07 05:05:20 and read 5540 times.

Sad to finally see the end for the MD-80 based family.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2006-03-07 07:45:56 and read 5456 times.

Very sad indeed. I wish the 717 was a more popular aircraft in terms of sales. I think that bird looks hella sexy. Too bad the line is going to be darkened soon. As long as NWA flies, we should see the DC-9's around for about another 80-90 years! Actually, I would imagine I would be passed on before they retire them. I think they are still some of the best looking birds.

The DC-8's still look sharp these days.

If MD was still in business today, do you think they would have had something beyond the 717?

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Bruce
Posted 2006-03-07 07:57:43 and read 5443 times.

Quoting Dacman (Reply 10):
N927ME (5153) will deliver tomorrow Tuesday, with the last deliveries coming in May as it stands now, I'll have more info following tomorrows delivery.

Any idea approx. time frame on Tuesday?

bruce

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Cellardoor
Posted 2006-03-07 08:43:24 and read 5400 times.

You may like the 717's looks, history, or flight characteristics, but as a flight attendant the plane sucks. This plane is in its third iteration and they still got it wrong!

The air conditioning vents stop 2-3 rows forward of the tailcone area. That means the last 2-3 rows of seats are uncomfortably warm on the ground and the F/A area is downright steamy. There are no gaspers for the F/A in the back, even though this is bound to be the hottest area of the plane with the engines and APU located nearby. Thank God I'm a designated L-One and don't ever have to fly back there.

The galley on our TWA planes has a cupboard that opens outboard... it's a large door that blocks half the counter space to open. Opening it during service means clearing all the open tonic waters, Cokes, Sprites, and Black Cherry Vanilla Cokes from the counter just to get out a bag of pretzels which is likely crushed from being shoved into said cupboard.

The TWA planes also have two ridiculously small ice bins which constantly leak and hold insufficient ice for a decent service.

The buttons for the reading lights are very unreliable; very often whole rows go out for no apparent reason. Whenever a passenger complains about a burnt out reading light I try to exchange one with the mood lights. Most often, it's a problem with the control strip and changing one bulb doesn't fix it.

Finally, the ventilation system with relation to the flight deck is flawed. I am not a pilot, but I am succeptible to the forward lav. Many pilots have told me that the flight deck acts as an air dump for the forward lav in the jumpseat/galley area. The airflow is such that the flight deck recieves its air through the forward cabin through the ventilation panels in the flight deck door. Any time someone "blows up" the lav, it goes immediately to the flight deck. I understand that they have air vents in there, but there's only so much air those can carry away!

I realize that there are economic and engineering reasons why these problems exist, but I am just venting my frustration with the problems of the 717. I do not consider it a great plane. It is a mediocre plane with regards to crew. Of the planes I've flown, the 757 was the most crew friendly!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-03-07 14:52:15 and read 5319 times.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 31):
If MD was still in business today, do you think they would have had something beyond the 717?

A stretch MD-95-50 and a shrink MD-95-10 models of the base MD-95-30 (aka 717-200) would have been eventually offered along with an optional engines for longer range.

[Edited 2006-03-07 14:52:40]

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: LMP737
Posted 2006-03-07 17:09:06 and read 5233 times.

Quoting Cellardoor (Reply 33):
The galley on our TWA planes has a cupboard that opens outboard... it's a large door that blocks half the counter space to open. Opening it during service means clearing all the open tonic waters, Cokes, Sprites, and Black Cherry Vanilla Cokes from the counter just to get out a bag of pretzels which is likely crushed from being shoved into said cupboard.

The TWA planes also have two ridiculously small ice bins which constantly leak and hold insufficient ice for a decent service.

This is a configuration issue that could easily be solved by installing galley's that are common to the rest of your 717 fleet.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: NA
Posted 2006-03-07 17:37:37 and read 5201 times.

Actually it comes to my mind now that I´ve never even seen a single 717. And I live in Frankfurt, not quite the backyard of aviation!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2006-03-07 17:54:32 and read 5168 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
737 (797?) will feature some of the 717's attributes mixed in; maybe possibly the T-tail.

That would be cool to see, but very unlikely.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: LMP737
Posted 2006-03-07 17:56:52 and read 5168 times.

Quoting NA (Reply 36):
Actually it comes to my mind now that I´ve never even seen a single 717. And I live in Frankfurt, not quite the backyard of aviation!

May I suggest for your next vacation a trip to the Hawaiian Islands. Plenty of 717's there.  Smile

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2006-03-07 18:07:07 and read 5148 times.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 38):
May I suggest for your next vacation a trip to the Hawaiian Islands. Plenty of 717's there.

Likewise w/ATL or MKEBig grin

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: ATCT
Posted 2006-03-07 18:19:54 and read 5131 times.

I dont know the date of delivery, but when it comes to PIT, I'll snap a few shots of it. (We do Midwest's ramp service @ DL).

On a side note, As one who's flown 717's many times (AirTran), I personally love the aircraft and think its a shame that no other airlines have picked it up. For short-haul routes, it is a beautiful aircraft. (NE Corridor for example). Just my two cents.

ATCT

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: LMP737
Posted 2006-03-07 18:43:30 and read 5111 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 39):
Likewise w/ATL or MKE.

Yes, but the islands are much more fun!  Smile

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: United_fan
Posted 2006-03-07 20:11:57 and read 5051 times.

We get a bunch of FL 717's in ROC everyday,too.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: NorthwestEWR
Posted 2006-03-07 20:59:26 and read 5008 times.

I had the pleasure of flying on 5 717s lasts summer with YX on EWR - MKE - MCI - SAT - MCI - MKE - EWR and enjoyed them very much !!! The 717s are sooo quiet and comfortable and YX's seats make them even better !

My first 717 ride was supposed to be EWR - MKE but that 717 had some sort of problem and YX sent an MD81 instead........

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Sideflare75
Posted 2006-03-07 22:22:13 and read 4935 times.

Quoting Bruce (Reply 32):
Any idea approx. time frame on Tuesday?

ETA of N927ME is 1630 local Milwaukee time.

Date of N928ME delivery right now is May 23rd.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2006-03-07 22:24:47 and read 4929 times.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 42):
We get a bunch of FL 717's in ROC everyday,too.

And they leave full no doubt.

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: Steeler83
Posted 2006-03-08 00:58:29 and read 4842 times.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 40):
I dont know the date of delivery, but when it comes to PIT, I'll snap a few shots of it.

I wonder where you snam photos of these magnificent birds at. I will be coming back to Pittsburgh this Friday and I will be there for Spring Brake. Perhaps I could get a few pics of some planes...

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: United_fan
Posted 2006-03-08 01:04:40 and read 4836 times.

DAyflyer,not sure on loads,but they must be doing good. Only n/s' to MCO & FLL . Maybe LAS will be added with a 73G  Smile

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: CentPIT
Posted 2006-03-08 02:58:53 and read 4769 times.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 40):
dont know the date of delivery, but when it comes to PIT, I'll snap a few shots of it. (We do Midwest's ramp service @ DL).

Take more pics in PIT please! I want to see some photos! This would great if you could. Thanks!!

Topic: RE: The End Is Near For The 717
Username: AkjetBlue
Posted 2006-03-11 02:20:31 and read 4582 times.

so sad to see the 717 line closing. it's now one of my fav aircraft.


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