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Topic: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: SkyHigh777
Posted 2006-06-02 23:01:16 and read 14417 times.

Just saw on NBC4 news here in DC that there has reportedly been a Learjet plane crash off the coast of Connecticut. It appears there were 5-7 people on board and one of them has been reported dead. Not much details, NBC said it is still learning more as it unfolds.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Kaputt
Posted 2006-06-02 23:04:48 and read 14397 times.

Just heard on our local news that it was Pat Robertsons Jet. They did confirm that he was not on the aircraft.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Longhornmaniac
Posted 2006-06-02 23:05:01 and read 14397 times.

Here's a link

NBC4 Link

Update: 2 Dead, 3 rescued.

Learjet 35

RIP All who perished.

Cheers,
Cameron

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Mir
Posted 2006-06-03 00:47:00 and read 14180 times.

Reg looks to be N182K.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N182K

-Mir

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2006-06-03 02:02:51 and read 14053 times.

Why does Pat Robertson have a jet? I though men of god lived simple humble lives. Would have been ver ironic if he was in the jet. Could have been a punishment. God sure works in stange ways, I'll kill his friend but I won't ill Pat because he brings me money.

[Edited 2006-06-03 02:07:28]

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: AndrewUber
Posted 2006-06-03 02:05:15 and read 14050 times.

According to MSNBC, he was not aboard, so he's still alive to run his mouth. I'm sure he'll have negative things to say about the two who died, however.

Anyway, RIP to the two fatalities. Very sad regardless of who they were.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: LGA777
Posted 2006-06-03 02:17:54 and read 13984 times.

The two who died where the pilots. and the three surviving passengers where coming to Conn to play in a Golf Tournememt at nearby Foxwoods Casino Resort, or at least this what NYC area radio news stations are reporting. RIP to the crew, as far as Pat Roberts Religious organazation and playing golf at a casino resort, no comment !

Regards

LGA777

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CptSpeaking
Posted 2006-06-03 03:40:52 and read 13842 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
Why does Pat Robertson have a jet? I though men of god lived simple humble lives.

Not always...I go to Liberty University, which was co-founded by Jerry Falwell, who still remains our chancellor today. Although controversial sometimes, all of us students love him to death.

Jerry owns a Citation III (N71LU) that he uses for official university business, such as going to the headquarters of accrediation comittees, etc. He also is generous enough to lend its use when occasional tradgedies may strike. Last year, our lacrosse team had a major accident involving both 15-passenger vans the team was using in Louisiana. Jerry sent two of the campus pastors down there in 71LU to be with those students in the hospital as well as the rest of the team. Then, he had the jet make several runs to bring the entire team back to Virginia.

Pastors who are in the public spotlight such as Falwell and Robertson aren't immune from business as well, and when the most efficient way of conducting your business is a jet, why not?! Pastor Falwell often references aviation in his sermons and is a huge advocate of general aviation.

BTW, Liberty now has a bachelor's degree in aviation, with which students graduate with at least a Commercial pilots license, instrument rating, and the option of CFI ratings. Liberty is a part 141 certified flight school with several student instructors.

My prayers go to the family of those killed in this accident as well as those that are injured.

Your CptSpeaking  wave 

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Mir
Posted 2006-06-03 05:16:32 and read 13675 times.

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 7):
Jerry owns a Citation III (N71LU) that he uses for official university business, such as going to the headquarters of accrediation comittees, etc.

To beg them not to revoke the school's accredidation?

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 7):
BTW, Liberty now has a bachelor's degree in aviation, with which students graduate with at least a Commercial pilots license, instrument rating, and the option of CFI ratings. Liberty is a part 141 certified flight school with several student instructors.

So does Bob Jones University, interestingly enough. "Missionary Pilot" is the major.

-Mir

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CitationJet
Posted 2006-06-03 05:46:18 and read 13622 times.

Kenneth Copeland recently purchased a $20,000,000 Cessna Citation X. Now he is asking his followers to join him in "Spreading the word around the world at Mach .92".
He is asking for $2,000 donations to support his EliteCX team.

http://www.elitecxteam.org/

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-03 05:55:39 and read 13583 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
"Missionary Pilot" is the major.

The mile high club is one thing, but you can't do *that* in a standard airline lav. Need crew rest area or something.

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 9):
He is asking for $2,000 donations to support his EliteCX team.

Wow, that's awesome. What kind of people who actually work for a living donate money for someone else's Citation X? I think I've just lost any respect I might have had left for the human species.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: DLKAPA
Posted 2006-06-03 05:58:03 and read 13575 times.

Quoting Kaputt (Reply 1):
Just heard on our local news that it was Pat Robertsons Jet. They did confirm that he was not on the aircraft.

Nuts.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CptSpeaking
Posted 2006-06-03 06:22:10 and read 13517 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):

To beg them not to revoke the school's accredidation?

One of the last runs was to PHX...something about the National Bar Association and Liberty's law school...

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
So does Bob Jones University, interestingly enough. "Missionary Pilot" is the major.

I didn't know that, but I'm not too surprised. We have three concentrations within the major: Commercial, Military, and Missions. As of now, 95% are in the Commercial track...the only difference with the missions track is taking additional missions classes and the minor detail of getting your A&P license  Wink

You guys can make jokes (which are funny, I'll admit that...being a Christian doesn't necessitate being a stick in the mud  Smile ) about missions pilots and such, but in all seriousness they are the absolute best pilots out there. I'd love to see anybody here try to fly into and out of some of the airstrips (or excuses for one) they visit routinely...

Your CptSpeaking

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Saturn5
Posted 2006-06-03 06:27:31 and read 13499 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
Could have been a punishment.

And punishment for what exactly? What a stupid comment.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Falcon flyer
Posted 2006-06-03 06:43:06 and read 13469 times.

How about the Ohio evangelist who has a B747SP based at CAK ? Try explaining that one to your flock...

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-03 06:58:33 and read 13447 times.

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 14):
How about the Ohio evangelist who has a B747SP based at CAK ? Try explaining that one to your flock...

Market value probably a lot lower than a new Citation X, although op costs higher. But you can carry a lot more of the Word on it, can't you?

(Or even food, medicine, and shelter for the children of the world who need it, do these guys ever deliver that, or is just Word?)

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: JohnJ
Posted 2006-06-03 07:00:11 and read 13439 times.

I'm soliciting some advice here. This crash isn't far from me, and from the pictures they showed on the news tonight it looks like photographs of it would be entirely possible. I'm totally sketched out, however, in that there were fatalities, and I have a problem taking photos for A.net in which there were fatalities involved. What do you all think? Is it morbid to try to get a shot of the crash site? The news reported that they'd try to raise the wreckage sometime tomorrow.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: ChiGB1973
Posted 2006-06-03 07:08:01 and read 13410 times.

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 12):
but in all seriousness they are the absolute best pilots out there. I'd love to see anybody here try to fly into and out of some of the airstrips (or excuses for one) they visit routinely...

I guarantee that won't be a Citation X mission. That has charter written all over it. Fly the X to a near by controlled airfields and a charter company takes them to the "excuses for airstrips."

It's awful about the crash. Like many others, I hope it is one that is learned from and prevent future crashes of similar nature.

M

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: DLKAPA
Posted 2006-06-03 07:16:10 and read 13384 times.

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 13):
And punishment for what exactly? What a stupid comment.

Pat Robertson says things like that on a daily basis, what's your point?

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-03 07:19:20 and read 13377 times.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 16):
I'm soliciting some advice here. This crash isn't far from me, and from the pictures they showed on the news tonight it looks like photographs of it would be entirely possible. I'm totally sketched out, however, in that there were fatalities, and I have a problem taking photos for A.net in which there were fatalities involved. What do you all think? Is it morbid to try to get a shot of the crash site? The news reported that they'd try to raise the wreckage sometime tomorrow.

Wow, an on-topic response.

It's a part of aviation history, so should be in the database, and it might as well be you who puts it there?

And my apologies to all for disrespecting the two victims with my previous off-topic responses.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Saturn5
Posted 2006-06-03 07:37:59 and read 13332 times.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 18):
Pat Robertson says things like that on a daily basis,

total fabrication.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CptSpeaking
Posted 2006-06-03 07:40:17 and read 13329 times.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 17):
I guarantee that won't be a Citation X mission

Me too! I was referring to pilots that fly for outfits such as JAARS and MAF...
JAARS flys Helio Couriers and C210s around with some King Airs and 421s in larger airports, no C750s for them...they have some helicopter operations as well, but not many. check out www.jaars.org

As for my previously mentioned "excuses for an airstrip", try this one found on JAARS's web site...660 feet on the side of a mountain with a direct crosswind and no room for a go-around:


And for the record, I don't agree with most of the crap Pat Robertson says, but thats definitely no reason for wanting him on that airplane as it crashed...

Your CptSpeaking

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Timboflier215
Posted 2006-06-03 11:48:35 and read 13166 times.

My condolences to the families of those involved. It's good that some survived, at least. I too am not a fan of Pat Robertson, but I wouldn't want this to happen to anybody - having an a/c you own crash, with loss of life.

Quoting CptSpeaking (Reply 21):
JAARS and MAF

I have MASSIVE respect for people like JAARS and MAF - delivering medicine and aid to people as well as spreading their beliefs. And doing it practically and quietly, rather than dashing around the place in private jets that are usually the preserve of the rich and famous, and then asking other to help fund it.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Mikester540
Posted 2006-06-03 15:16:29 and read 12662 times.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 16):


I'm soliciting some advice here. This crash isn't far from me, and from the pictures they showed on the news tonight it looks like photographs of it would be entirely possible. I'm totally sketched out, however, in that there were fatalities, and I have a problem taking photos for A.net in which there were fatalities involved. What do you all think? Is it morbid to try to get a shot of the crash site? The news reported that they'd try to raise the wreckage sometime tomorrow.

I'm about the same distance as you, too. The visibility is still poor though, but it would make a great photo as part of the Lear 35 is being pulled up out of the water!

Try it out!

[Edited 2006-06-03 15:36:42]

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CitationJet
Posted 2006-06-03 15:20:18 and read 12626 times.

Quoting Mikester540 (Reply 23):
it would make a great photo as part of the citation was being pulled up out of the water!

Citation?? I thought it was a Lear 35 that crashed.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Mikester540
Posted 2006-06-03 15:37:36 and read 12437 times.

lol, sorry about that-- it was a Lear 35.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2006-06-03 15:43:10 and read 12365 times.

Some news reports have said that Robertson rarely uses the aircraft himself and that much of it's time it is rented out for charter use, like with this incident. Although I dislike his counterdictory opinions, I am quite sure he will be sad about this accident and will comment on it on his next "700 Club" show, pray for the families of the dead pilot & co-pilot who he probably knew well.
The destination airport is very close to the coast and this aircraft crashed about 1.5 miles south of it. I am not sure of the weather at the time of the accident, but we have had some nasty storms pass through in recent days in the Northeast and weather/atomspheric conditions may have contributed to this crash. Hoepfully the investigation that is already underway will help determine the cause. It appears from some news reports pictures here in the NYC area that most of the a/c is intact and the crash occured not far from the shorline. I suspect the a/c will be brought to it's intended destination airport to continue the investigation.
Some of these high level ministers, much like major business executives, do like private aircraft for hassle, time flexibility, privacy and security reasons. Recall earlier this year the wife of the minister of a superchurch in Dallas that hassled bigtime some f/a's on a flight from someplace in Colorado. So maybe it is better they are not on commercial flights!
I am quite sure some of these aircraft like Rev. Robertson's are used in programs that transport children and their families on biz aircraft at off times for medical treatments to specialized hospitals across the country (like St. Jude's in Memphis) as well as missionary projects as suggested above.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Deltabobo
Posted 2006-06-03 16:40:47 and read 11847 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
So does Bob Jones University, interestingly enough. "Missionary Pilot" is the major.

From a person who just graduated from Bob Jones University, I am NOT a Bible thumper, nor will I bring religion into these forums. Missionary Aviation is not the only aviation major at BJU. The other bachelor degree programs are Business & Commercial Aviation and Aviation Management. They also offer an associate degree in Aircraft Maintainence. The head of the aviation department at BJU is an licensed FAA examiner, with the chief instructor is a former Naval aviator who flew F-8 Crusaders from carriers in Vietnam. Aviation Management allows you to either get your commercial license or A&P license with a background in business. Business & Commercial Aviation allows you to get your commercial license in the 4.5 year program they offer. Missionary aviation is a 4.5 to 5 year program in which you get your multi-engine rating ALONG with an A&P license (Two for the price of one!)

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: BaylorAirBear
Posted 2006-06-03 18:08:02 and read 10972 times.

Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 27):
nor will I bring religion into these forums.



Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 27):
I am NOT a Bible thumper

 scratchchin Just did!  Wink

News reports foggy conditions in the area.

I like how the link above includes six photos of the crash site. They're all practically the same, but with different captions.  sarcastic 

BAB Big grin

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 777DadandJr
Posted 2006-06-03 19:04:53 and read 10433 times.

Though I despise Pat Robertson, I would not jump for joy if he died in a plane crash. RIP to the souls lost on that plane.


Quoting 3201 (Reply 15):
Marketrnvalue probably a lot lower than a new Citation X, although op costsrnhigher. But you can carry a lot more of the Word on it, can't you?

(Orrneven food, medicine, and shelter for the children of the world who needrnit, do these guys ever deliver that, or is just Word?)

That was it's intended mission. However, according to an article that I read (sorry, can't remember where) it's last 2 missions to North Africa,(before being seized at Thunder Bay) I to believe Libya, carried only 2 passengers on each flight. Pretty high cost for that trip!

Russ

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Pbottenb
Posted 2006-06-03 19:38:42 and read 10104 times.

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 22):
I have MASSIVE respect for people like JAARS and MAF - delivering medicine and aid to people as well as spreading their beliefs. And doing it practically and quietly, rather than dashing around the place in private jets that are usually the preserve of the rich and famous, and then asking other to help fund it.

Mission Aviation Fellowship (MAF) is an excellent organization of committed people. A bit off topic, but they are moving this month from my hometown in California to Idaho: http://www.maf.org/news/archive/2006/0328_relocation.html We will miss them here. Good luck to them!

PB

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Prov1
Posted 2006-06-03 20:41:58 and read 9539 times.

Just because they have a private jet does not mean they are abusing fund money. They are taking advantage of private travel to better allocate their time. The whole mission of Christianity is to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Jusus gave his life for us so our sins may be forgiven!

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Petmbro
Posted 2006-06-03 20:46:42 and read 9473 times.

I was just down at GON for ground school, weather is still 100 overcast and 1/2 or 1/4 mile visibility. Plane is probably still in the water. The local news was asking me and my flight instructor stupid questions like "is the airport still safe" etc. I'll try and get some pictures and post them through you tomorrow when I go flying assuming the weather is better."

[Edited 2006-06-03 20:47:04]

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: ETFokker50
Posted 2006-06-03 20:47:36 and read 9473 times.

They do do some crazy things, and trust me, a lot of good stuff is being done by those organizations mentioned MAF and JAARS. They don't just help spread chrisitianity - they do more than that. Firstly, they have to be able to pay charity flights too, doing more commericial work helps them fund aid. They fly government officials, development organizations and injured all over developed countries, such as Bangladesh for instance, where the infrastructure is bad. Secondly, they have strict rules, pilots must also have a lot of experience with the mechanicals of a small plane too. Having engine trouble in the middle of nowhere is not fun and they should be able to cope with that.
Oh, and think 600 feet on the side of a mountain is bad, I personally know somone who worked in an area, where the grassstrip ended up against a cliff, and because of wind in the valley, they had to literally circle down to be able to land, and then avoid a river in the process. The lower limit on number of hours flown was like 1000 or 1500. I've lived in countries and met lots of these people and they are great! They believe in a mission and aviation helps tremendously. JAARS also does great groundbreaking work, also in computers  Smile

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2006-06-03 20:47:43 and read 9473 times.

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
So does Bob Jones University, interestingly enough. "Missionary Pilot" is the major.

What do they call the degree if you want to go after a Masters?

Quoting Prov1 (Reply 31):
Just because they have a private jet does not mean they are abusing fund money. They are taking advantage of private travel to better allocate their time. The whole mission of Christianity is to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Jusus gave his life for us so our sins may be forgiven!

Sorry they could fly commercial and allocate the funds for better use.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Saturn5
Posted 2006-06-03 20:54:54 and read 9376 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 4):
I though men of god lived simple humble lives

It shows your ignorance about the "men of God". There are a few orders say in Catholic Church that vow life in relative poverty (say Franciscans or Jesuits) but apart from that there is nothing to prevent someone of "God" to become rich. You may not like it but your are not going to tell others what they can or can't do. Also this particular aircraft was used for different charties and if idle it was charted out to "make money" - a reasonable thing to do with an expensive aircraft.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-03 20:54:54 and read 9376 times.

Quoting Prov1 (Reply 31):
The whole mission of Christianity is to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. Jusus gave his life for us so our sins may be forgiven!

I suppose this is only my opinion, but taking resources that can be used to give people food and shelter and using them to inefficiently spread "good news," whether you believe it or not, is misguided at best, stupid and wasteful more likely. I guess, though, if you believe all your sins are forgiven, then taking $20m of other people's money to buy you a hot-rod jet will be forgiven too.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):
Sorry they could fly commercial and allocate the funds for better use.

Unless they're banned because their wives are abusive to the cabin crew.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Saturn5
Posted 2006-06-03 21:04:11 and read 9286 times.

Quoting 3201 (Reply 36):
them to inefficiently spread "good news,"

Who is to decide what is "efficient" or not? It is their organization, their money and they can spend it whatever way they want, you are not going to dictate how others conduct their lives and how they spread "news" or deliver charities. People who contribute to their organization know very well how they function - the "books" are available. If you think you can do better job of solving world problems - go ahead do it and we will watch but I am afraid apart from banging at the keyboard you are capable of very little.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: YZFOO7F
Posted 2006-06-03 21:41:44 and read 8983 times.

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 37):
I am afraid apart from banging at the keyboard you are capable of very little.

well said.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: ETFokker50
Posted 2006-06-03 22:12:25 and read 8691 times.

There's plenty of corporate entities and business that do shady things! Why question charities and organizations who atleast are trying to do something good, in a way that helps others...

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: JohnJ
Posted 2006-06-03 23:54:53 and read 8078 times.

I got down there at about 2 this afternoon. When I arrived the fuselage was on a barge upside-down, and they pulled the wing structure out of the water about 20 minutes after I got there. The crash is only a couple of hundred yards from the end of Runway 5, right along the centerline in the middle of some approach lights. The smell of jet fuel was pretty strong and I still have a headache from it.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-04 00:39:25 and read 8031 times.

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 37):
If you think you can do better job of solving world problems - go ahead do it and we will watch but I am afraid apart from banging at the keyboard you are capable of very little.

You have no idea who I am or what I do, and that's an awfully rude thing for you to say. I help real people almost every day, in tangible ways. I am indeed solving world problems, in ways that don't involve hoarding resources and creating greenhouse gasses just to tell people to have faith in something that happened 2000 years ago. If Jesus made such a great sacrifice, it is disrespectful of that sacrifice to pool resources of believers just to fly some guy around in a pretentious hot rod of a jet (a slightly lower performing used one, or even just a fractional ownership, would no doubt be MUCH less efficient). I'm sure He'd have done the same.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Nwafflyer
Posted 2006-06-04 00:45:02 and read 8019 times.

Oh please, let's not get into the religious 'crap' here -- go back to the movie 'Elmer Gantry' -- that is what we're looking at, except these people also have political clout. Please, please, let us keep religion out of an aviation forum

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: H53Epilot
Posted 2006-06-04 00:58:42 and read 7992 times.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):
Sorry they could fly commercial and allocate the funds for better use.

This is a $2 million dollar jet. It was placed into a "lease back" situation with a charter company in which any actual flying done by Robertson was relatively inexpensive due to depreciation and writeoffs. It is probably cheaper to operate than first class commercial. Your beef should be with the IRS.

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 35):
Also this particular aircraft was used for different charties and if idle it was charted out to "make money" - a reasonable thing to do with an expensive aircraft.

Exactly. You can buy a late 80s LR 35 for under $2 mil. Use it for 5 years, sell it, and get back $1.5 mil. Pretty good, if you ask me.

Quoting 3201 (Reply 36):
I suppose this is only my opinion, but taking resources that can be used to give people food and shelter and using them to inefficiently spread "good news," whether you believe it or not, is misguided at best, stupid and wasteful more likely. I guess, though, if you believe all your sins are forgiven, then taking $20m of other people's money to buy you a hot-rod jet will be forgiven too.

Is being able to fly 6 people to 4 cities in a day for business purposes really inefficient? It's not a new Gulfstream IV, afterall. Pretty ignorant, if you ask me.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: 3201
Posted 2006-06-04 01:02:39 and read 7985 times.

Quoting H53Epilot (Reply 43):

Is being able to fly 6 people to 4 cities in a day for business purposes really inefficient? It's not a new Gulfstream IV, afterall. Pretty ignorant, if you ask me.

Read the thread history before you call me ignorant -- this discussion wasn't on the used Lear, it was on a $20M new Citation X from elite CX team. The used Lear for 1/10 the cost gets the exact same job done -- you made my point for me completely. I agree there can be justification for using a bizjet rather than commercial, paid for by an organization's funds. But not a new Citation X paid for by small donations, that's ridiculous.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: We're Nuts
Posted 2006-06-04 04:44:26 and read 7888 times.

Quoting Deltabobo (Reply 27):
From a person who just graduated from Bob Jones University, I am NOT a Bible thumper, nor will I bring religion into these forums.

I thought Bob Jones University was more for budding white supremacists.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Saturn5
Posted 2006-06-04 04:56:59 and read 7870 times.

Quoting 3201 (Reply 41):
If Jesus made such a great sacrifice, it is disrespectful of that sacrifice to pool resources of believers just to fly some guy around in a pretentious hot rod of a jet

It is statements like this that make you look like a buffoon I am afraid. I have no idea whether to laugh or cry.  banghead 

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: Jcavinato
Posted 2006-06-04 05:09:54 and read 7825 times.

I am in the university business. I know of no university president who has to travel to the accreditation bodies headquarters, and in a school jet for that matter. University presidents don't visit the accreditation bodies. There is no need for them to do so. The accreditation groups are on tight budgets, and any traveling is done by them to come visit the universities when accreditation and reaccreditation are scheduled.

Visiting accreditation bodies in a needed jet: give me a break.

And the jet going to a golf event at a casino. Makes me wonder where donation monies are going, and whether there is any oversight to it all. If that had been a corporate jet, that would have been a situation for stockholders to perform a due diligence as well as the IRS to disqualify the expenses as a legitimate business expense.

My heart goes to those who died and their families.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CptSpeaking
Posted 2006-06-04 07:38:22 and read 7759 times.

Quoting Jcavinato (Reply 47):
I am in the university business. I know of no university president who has to travel to the accreditation bodies headquarters, and in a school jet for that matter. University presidents don't visit the accreditation bodies. There is no need for them to do so. The accreditation groups are on tight budgets, and any traveling is done by them to come visit the universities when accreditation and reaccreditation are scheduled.

Visiting accreditation bodies in a needed jet: give me a break.

It happened, that's all I know. (it was the NBA, and not the basketball one...accreditation may have been the wrong term...) And Falwell is the chancellor, not the president. Also, 71LU is not owned by the university, but Falwell himself. It is used for university business because Falwell founded the school and still acts as chancellor. Being a prominent pastor, he also guest-preaches all around the country and attends several major political events as well, and a jet is the best way to do it. In the end, it may not be absolutely NEEDED (his cousin owns a jet charter company as well, Falwell Aviation, go figure  Smile ), but is the best way to get things done and in the long term, I'm sure he has found it to be more favorable financially to own rather than charter.

Your CptSpeaking

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: CitationJet
Posted 2006-06-04 22:52:32 and read 7633 times.

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 9):
Kenneth Copeland recently purchased a $20,000,000 Cessna Citation X. Now he is asking his followers to join him in "Spreading the word around the world at Mach .92".
He is asking for $2,000 donations to support his EliteCX team.

I did a little more checking on Kenneth Copeland. Per Landings.com, the Citation X SN 240 N1962J is registered to Eagle Mountain International Church of Newark, TX.

According to landings.com, the following aircraft are owned by Eagle Mountain Church of Newark, TX.
Gulfstream II-SP, N104VV
Cessna 421B, N1223H
Citation 750, N1962J

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Photo © Ralph Duenas - Airplanespotters



According to landings.com, Kenneth Copeland owns the following aircraft in care of Kenneth Copeland Industries of Newark, TX:
North American T-28B Trojan, N28VV
Beech Baron E-55, N413KG
Stearman B75N1, N450KG

Anyone can track the movement of these aircraft on flightaware.com to see how much they are used for "missionary" work.

Since February, the Cessna 421 has been in Kansas, Georgia, Texas, Alabama, and Florida.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1223H/history

Since February, the Beech Baron has only been out of Texas to go to Florida and Kansas.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N413KG/history

The Citation X has made trips to Vancouver, Las Vegas, Chicago, Ft. Lauderdale.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N1962J/history

The Gulfstream II-SP has traveled to Vail, Colorado twice in March, Shannon Ireland, and Los Angeles among others.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N104VV/history


Jerry Falwell's Citation 3 trips in N71LU since February are shown here:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N71LU/history

.

Topic: RE: Plane Crash Off Coast Of Connecticut
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2006-06-05 06:45:44 and read 7482 times.

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 35):
It shows your ignorance about the "men of God". There are a few orders say in Catholic Church that vow life in relative poverty (say Franciscans or Jesuits) but apart from that there is nothing to prevent someone of "God" to become rich. You may not like it but your are not going to tell others what they can or can't do. Also this particular aircraft was used for different charties and if idle it was charted out to "make money" - a reasonable thing to do with an expensive aircraft.

You know in the old days people used to give the church horse manure and their gold teeth in substitute of money to help the church survive. Now that there are suckers left and right and there are people who sell religion I guess it's not surprising to see men of god with private jets, can't do much with manure these days especially with the fuel prices.


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