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Topic: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Rolo987
Posted 2006-06-25 14:07:22 and read 5727 times.

I am currently in college and I am possibly interested in becoming a pilot. I was told that possibly joining the Air Force could be a way to eventually transition to become a commercial pilot without the near $100,000 it costs to go to flight school. Can any one help me out with this?

Thanks.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Bucky707
Posted 2006-06-25 14:40:01 and read 5702 times.

yes, you can learn to fly in the Air Force. Very difficult to get accepted for pilot training, and then once you are there the washout rate is substantial. Also, right now the commitment to the Air Force is ten years after finishing pilot training.

Having said that, its well worth it. I loved flying in the Air Force and if they would have let me keep flying, I would still be there.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-25 14:42:48 and read 5699 times.

There are more pilot spots in the Navy and they land on carriers instead of those sissy runways.  Wink Either way you'll have a tough go of it. A good chunk of those flight assignments go to Academy grads and not to ROTC folks coming out of college.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: OttoPylit
Posted 2006-06-25 15:21:34 and read 5674 times.

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 1):
yes, you can learn to fly in the Air Force. Very difficult to get accepted for pilot training, and then once you are there the washout rate is substantial. Also, right now the commitment to the Air Force is ten years after finishing pilot training.

Yes, there is still the substantial payment to the government for the cost of training you, considering you make it all the way through flight training.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):
There are more pilot spots in the Navy and they land on carriers instead of those sissy runways

No, they have a controlled crash on a carrier. There is a difference. You know you have a Navy pilot when your 763 slams onto the ground and you swear you've chipped a tooth. Personally, I think the only reason anyone joins the Navy as a pilot is because they are afraid of landing in a crosswind(considering carriers turn into the wind for launch and recovery). LOL



OttoPylit

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-25 15:24:46 and read 5672 times.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 3):
Personally, I think the only reason anyone joins the Navy as a pilot is because they are afraid of landing in a crosswind(considering carriers turn into the wind for launch and recovery).

Touche!

But runways also don't bounce up and down on the high seas either.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 3):
You know you have a Navy pilot when your 763 slams onto the ground and you swear you've chipped a tooth.

It appears that Delta employs a fair amount of ex-Squids based on that guideline.  

[Edited 2006-06-25 15:25:27]

Edits: spelling

[Edited 2006-06-25 15:26:16]

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: OttoPylit
Posted 2006-06-25 15:58:21 and read 5643 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 4):
But runways also don't bounce up and down on the high seas either.

I'll refer you to the band Dos Gringos for my answer on this one. They are a couple of F-16 pilots who create songs based around flying. One off their latest CD, "I Wanna Land On a Carrier" speaks of strapping their Vipers to the catapults and watching those suckers fly. But then they look at the other side of the coin, and I quote, "your still stuck on a boat, in the middle of nowhere, with 5,000 other men. Join the Navy, I don't think so. Living on a boat, I don't think so. I thought about the Navy, but decided to pass, I love my 5 star hotels and per diem out the ass" in reference to the USAF taking good care of their people on TDY. rotfl LOL In case your interested, their website is:

www.dosgringosrocks.com

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 4):
It appears that Delta employs a fair amount of ex-Squids based on that guideline.

Yea, normally if I have a hard landing, while that Squid up front is patting himself on the back, I'm cursing his Navy ass while dialing my chiropractor on the cell phone.  laughing 

Their not all so bad, but any Ooohs and Aaahs you may get on a landing come from a nice and easy greasejob, not carving your initials into the runway.



OttoPylit

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Jamesbuk
Posted 2006-06-25 16:03:32 and read 5634 times.

Are you more likely to get free training if you already have a PPL when you join the Air Force?

rgds --James--

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2006-06-25 17:06:49 and read 5603 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):
There are more pilot spots in the Navy and they land on carriers instead of those sissy runways. Either way you'll have a tough go of it. A good chunk of those flight assignments go to Academy grads and not to ROTC folks coming out of college.

actually when the Pilot numbers went back up in the late 90s AF ROTC gets literally 100s of flying billets now. The bigger/better units get several each cycle (normally enough to cover those interested and qualified). ROTC, OTS and academy grads all get the same commission now as well. No more Regular for academy and ROTC DG with the rest getting reserves. Now they all get reserves, though congress is looking to switch all to Regular commissions instead.

Your PPL only helps your PCSM score which is one way you are evaluated for UPT-undergraduate flying training. The Air Force will train you its way, not the civ way.

That being said the Air Force is cutting 20,000 officers over the next two years so accessions are also being slightly affected. Make sure you have all of your stuff perfect when you send it in and interview.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Veni, Vidi, Bibi

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Rolo987
Posted 2006-06-25 17:48:37 and read 5576 times.

Lt-AWACS, what is a PCSM score? How does the Air Force evalutate people to become trained for flying?

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2006-06-25 18:06:38 and read 5563 times.

http://www.aetc.randolph.af.mil/sas/pcsm/PCSM_exp/PcsmExplained.htm

you also have to take the AFOQT, which is the Air Force Officers Qualifying Test. and the BAT test, a video game-esq reflex test.

If you do apply, when you fill out your AF form 215 (the application) do not check navigator or air battle manager if you only want to be a pilot-check only UPT and ENJPT.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Actions speak louder than Bumperstickers

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: OttoPylit
Posted 2006-06-25 18:28:08 and read 5551 times.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 7):
Your PPL only helps your PCSM score which is one way you are evaluated for UPT-undergraduate flying training. The Air Force will train you its way, not the civ way.

Has anything changed since the T-6 Texan II came out as far as getting you through Phase I of the training? After the USAF retired the T-41 Mescalero, they were sending fresh students to local FBO's to get their initial introduction to flying out of the way before moving on to the T-37's. Since the introduction of the T-6, I don't know if that has changed, since the T-6 is also replacing the T-37, something I feel strongly against.

Tweety Birds FOREVER!!!!





OttoPylit

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2006-06-25 19:27:44 and read 5507 times.

Forget about being a military pilot, not only does the job suck now at days and former mil can't get flying jobs anywhere but you've got a better chance at winning the lottery than being a mil pilot. Plus I have no idea where you got the 100K figure. It's more like 30k to 50K. Stay the civilian way and you will actually get to fly rather than serve time for 10-15 years for Uncle Sam.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Rolo987
Posted 2006-06-25 19:44:31 and read 5489 times.

I got the near $100K figure from a Delta Connection Academy information packet. Approx. $62K plus housing and other costs. What I wanted to know was if it would be easier to find a job with a commercial airline or if you would gain much more flying experience if one were to go into the Air Force or the Navy as DeltaGator mentioned instead of going to a traditional flight school.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2006-06-25 20:17:50 and read 5471 times.

Quoting Rolo987 (Reply 12):
I got the near $100K figure from a Delta Connection Academy information packet. Approx. $62K plus housing and other costs. What I wanted to know was if it would be easier to find a job with a commercial airline or if you would gain much more flying experience if one were to go into the Air Force or the Navy as DeltaGator mentioned instead of going to a traditional flight school.

Dude, DCA is the worst school out there, do a little research. You don't have to look for a big flight school you can go to your local airport and do the SAME training at DCA for about 30K. As far as the latter part of the question, the answer is no, there are military pilots right now in the streets contemplating about leaving the pilot proffesion beause nobody would hire them. There are thounsands of CIV pilots with 4000+ hours experinece. Airlines prefer those guys. Airlines put emphasis now on multicrew experience and lots and lots of hours. Most military pilots don't have both of those requirements. A lot endup going to the regionals first so what's the point?

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: OttoPylit
Posted 2006-06-25 20:50:43 and read 5446 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 11):
Stay the civilian way and you will actually get to fly rather than serve time for 10-15 years for Uncle Sam.

How do you get to the thought that if you become a pilot in the military that you won't get to fly? Sure, there are some rated pilots out there who unfortunately get stuck flying a desk, but those are in the minority. And to have the chance to fly an F-15, feeling like I'm at the end of a spear a few times a month or flying a C-152 every day, I'll take the F-15. Granted, if you become a military pilot, you will not fly everyday, and you will have other duties(unless you become an Army Warrant Officer, but thats getting off topic). The price to pay to serve your country proudly and fly some of the aircraft that keep America at the forerfront of technology and warfare.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
DCA is the worst school out there, do a little research

I can agree with you there. If you want a good school, choose one that doesn't have the "We're big and can screw you" attitude. I would recommend that the best choice out there is All ATP. Their prices are not much higher than what you would normally pay and you get more out of it than the "guaranteed" job interview with Comair, after we suck as much money from you as we can.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
you can go to your local airport and do the SAME training at DCA for about 30K

From 0 hours to the few hundred(minimum) accumulated to "possibly" get a job with any affiliated regionals of your flight school(such as COEX with ATP, etc.), it is almost guaranteed to be much more than that. Unless you can finish your hours and exams in the minimum time, it will definately be more than that.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
there are military pilots right now in the streets contemplating about leaving the pilot proffesion beause nobody would hire them.

They are hired by the military. They would leave that? Then what to do? If they dropped the military thinking that the airlines would be hiring in the middle of economy slumping, that was their fault and big mistake.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
Airlines prefer those guys. Airlines put emphasis now on multicrew experience and lots and lots of hours. Most military pilots don't have both of those requirements. A lot endup going to the regionals first so what's the point?

Actually, no. Take my carrier, for instance. 95% of Delta's pilots are ex-military. They usually choose military over civilian due to top notch training, excellent skills, and discipline instilled via the military. About 90% of my Air National Guard units pilots are also airline pilots. Most Delta, a couple United, one FedEx, and even one Corporate pilot. These men have been flying fighters since they first entered the military. Most have flown F-16's and F-15's, a few old timers even flew F-106 interceptors, and a couple flew A-10 Warthogs. All single seat fighter aircraft.

Now, don't think you can finish your military training and then be off to the airlines. It don't work that way. First, you will pay your debt to Uncle Sam. If you choose to go the way of the active Air Force or Navy, its a minimum of 10 years, no if's, and's, or but's about it. Once you get to that point, your already halfway to retirement, you will probably just decide to suck it up and deal with it. At that point, you may try to get into the Guard or Reserves, but they tend to "hire from within" if possible, so that may not always be a chance. However, by that time, you will have accumulated many, many hours in at least 3 different types of equipment through training to your primary aircraft. So never just think, "Let Uncle Sam pick up the tab and I'm off." Uncle Sam won't stand for it, and neither will the taxpayer.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
A lot endup going to the regionals first so what's the point?

I've known 2 military pilots who had to start out at regionals. And that was mainly because they were already in the Air National Guard and wanted another flying job ASAP. They did not have the hours usually preferred by the airlines, so one had to start at Mesa and the other at ASA. They stayed there for about 2 years before moving up to mainline Delta.



OttoPylit

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-25 23:11:55 and read 5396 times.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 14):
(unless you become an Army Warrant Officer, but thats getting off topic).

IIRC you need to be careful of being a Warrant Officer since they can RIF you back down to an E-7 level level just for the Hell of it and take away the flight duties.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 7):
OTS and academy grads all get the same commission now as well. No more Regular for academy and ROTC DG with the rest getting reserves. Now they all get reserves, though congress is looking to switch all to Regular commissions instead.

It's all quite weird. A good friend of mine who is an Annapolis grad was commissioned into the Reserves though he has been active duty from day1. hat never made much sense to me.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2006-06-25 23:19:10 and read 5387 times.

A reserve commision and being in the reserves are two different things. I am on active duty and had a reserve commision for years, though it is transitioning over to a regular commision. It all goes into how congress can fire you and other things.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Hermano bebe, que la vida es breve

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-25 23:24:53 and read 5382 times.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 16):

Ah, I see. Hopefully Congress doesn't fire you guys. Keep up the good work.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-26 04:23:08 and read 5319 times.

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 5):
I'll refer you to the band Dos Gringos for my answer on this one

DOS GRINGOS ROCKS!!!

If you're already in school, you could do ROTC in 3 years (depending how much time you have left) or do OTS when you graduate. You have to have a bachelors with high grades and do well on your AFOQT if you want a shot at flying, though. I'm doing ROTC myself, but my vision isn't the greatest on paper (though in real life I can see better than anybody) so I'm just holding out for any kind of flying officer slot. But hey, where there's a waiver.. there's a way!

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Planespotting
Posted 2006-06-26 06:19:36 and read 5258 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 11):
Forget about being a military pilot, not only does the job suck now at days and former mil can't get flying jobs anywhere but you've got a better chance at winning the lottery than being a mil pilot. Plus I have no idea where you got the 100K figure. It's more like 30k to 50K. Stay the civilian way and you will actually get to fly rather than serve time for 10-15 years for Uncle Sam.

hey now, I know from personal experience that mil pilots do get the jobs when they're done with their commitment. Southwest, AirTran, FedEx, UPS, etc...basically all the major airlines that are hiring right now have extremely high minimum requirements that many pilots can only get through years of commuter flying...or the military!

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-26 06:24:56 and read 5252 times.

Dude, are you stupid, AirWillie? Military pilots get hired first! There are far more self-made civilian pilots looking for work than military guys. Oh yeah, and I'll take my 24k guranteed a year right out of college (plus hazard pay, pilot pay, etc.) over a civilian's 17k if i'm lucky enough to land a job.

[Edited 2006-06-26 06:27:37]

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: UAL777
Posted 2006-06-26 06:29:37 and read 5249 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Dude, are you stupid, AirWillie? Military pilots get hired first! There are far more self-made civilian pilots looking for work than military guys. Oh yeah, and I'll take my 24kguranteed a year (plus hazard pay, pilot pay, etc.) over a civilian's 17k if i'm lucky enough to land a job.

That is not entirely true. The guy who passes the sim ride gets hired. It also depends on how many internal reccomendations you have from guys already there.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-26 06:40:04 and read 5233 times.

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 21):
The guy who passes the sim ride gets hired. It also depends on how many internal reccomendations you have from guys already there.

In general military pilots are better trained, have more hours, and have alot of turbine/ME time, plus they're military... the company knows they're commited. Although there are exceptions, the military guy almost always has the leg up.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2006-06-26 07:01:03 and read 5224 times.

and the military guy most likely knows someone in the company (not that civilians don't). Pilots from my old squadron all went FedEx for example. Its who you know these days.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Actions speak louder than Bumperstickers

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: AirWillie6475
Posted 2006-06-26 08:19:46 and read 5195 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Dude, are you stupid, AirWillie? Military pilots get hired first! There are far more self-made civilian pilots looking for work than military guys. Oh yeah, and I'll take my 24k guranteed a year right out of college (plus hazard pay, pilot pay, etc.) over a civilian's 17k if i'm lucky enough to land a job.

NO "dude" are you stupid? I know to someone who doesn't know anything military seems like a sure thing but it's not the case now. Do you know a lot of military pilots? I know that many military pilots don't meet the requirements to land a job at a major, a lot are also too old now at days because commitments have become longer.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: OttoPylit
Posted 2006-06-26 18:09:02 and read 5093 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
IIRC you need to be careful of being a Warrant Officer since they can RIF you back down to an E-7 level level just for the Hell of it and take away the flight duties.

My brother is a WO2 in Alaska flying Dustoff and SAR missions in the UH-60 Blackhawk. As a Warrant Officer, your "job" is to be an experty in whatever you do. Whereas pilot officers have other "duties", a WO job is to do only what they do in order to be the most knowledgable. In this case, fly. Sounds like a no-brainer, even if it is helos. Well, when he arrived in AK, they did not have a Life Support Officer. When they found out he was a Life Support Specialist in the Air National Guard for 9 years before entering the Army, guess who was "forced" to have an additional duty as a Life Support Officer? So they sent him back to Ft. Rucker in exciting Enterprise, Alabama for 6 weeks(IIRC) to learn Life Support-the ARMY way. Sometimes, your just damned if you do and damned if you don't. lol

Oh, by the way, click on the website I provided and you can hear a bit of the "I Want to Land on a Carrier" song I mentioned. They've changed their website since I last saw it.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 18):
DOS GRINGOS ROCKS!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 18):
I'm doing ROTC myself, but my vision isn't the greatest on paper (though in real life I can see better than anybody) so I'm just holding out for any kind of flying officer slot. But hey, where there's a waiver.. there's a way!

Hey, if I could do it all over again, if a pilot slot doesn't open up, don't waste your time as a navigator or bombardier or anything. Just stay enlisted and become a boom operator on KC-135's or KC-10's, preferably KC-10's. They are a little more comfortable, as you have a seat as compared to laying on your belly. That way, you get a flying position(albeit enlisted, but no officer duties to deal with), and your job is to tell pilots what to do, that is, if they want some gas. Think about it, your are their best friend and lifesaver! Remember the tanker creed, "No one kicks ass without tanker gas."

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 24):
I know that many military pilots don't meet the requirements to land a job at a major,

How long have they been flying for the military? When you become a pilot with the military, some ratings can just be handed to you, you really just need to ask for them. I knew an F-16 Lt. Colonel who retired from my squadron in 1999 with over 12,000 hrs flying military jet fighters. Yet upon retiring, he didn't have his private pilot license. He just never went and got it, but basically could recieve it by taking a simple checkride and that is all. He went to fly for UA as a 727 FE and is now an FO on 737's. My brother is a Warrant Officer in the US Army. He has been flying the Blackhawk for almost 6 years and through the military has his rotorcraft rating. He took that to the FAA and got his commercial rotorcraft rating without having to do a thing. His updated license was sent a week after he applied. Thats because he has the military training and experience that speaks volumes. So when he leaves the Army, if he wants a job flying helo's as a hospital rescue pilot or whatever, he has the ratings already. There are lots of loops and in's and out's in everything, but many things that you can get just because it says military on the application.



OttoPylit

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Jamesbuk
Posted 2006-06-26 18:35:08 and read 5070 times.

Anybody see My Q above?

If you have a PPL are you more likely to be hired by the Airforce/RAF?

Rgds --James--

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-26 19:50:05 and read 5039 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 24):
I know to someone who doesn't know anything military

Like you, apparently? I know alot of military guys, I also know alot of airline guys... the airline guys always complain about military guys taking their slots and the military guys always get the slots. Like I said, there are exceptions and nowadays it's harder for everyone to get a job at an airline, but to say that the military is a bad way to go and to say that they don't get hired versus civilians is really ignorant.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: B52murph
Posted 2006-06-26 20:13:47 and read 5020 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
IIRC you need to be careful of being a Warrant Officer since they can RIF you back down to an E-7 level level just for the Hell of it and take away the flight duties.

Or...in the case of the US Air Force...you can get 'Force Shaped'...our new buzzword for RIFd as a Lieutenant because there just isn't a job for you.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 17):
Ah, I see. Hopefully Congress doesn't fire you guys. Keep up the good work.

Depending on how you look at it, though, they're not 'firing' pilots, just support officers. With 10 years in, I'm safe thus far. Some of my bretheren have not been so lucky, though.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-26 21:00:29 and read 4996 times.

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 26):
If you have a PPL are you more likely to be hired by the Airforce/RAF?

Only up to about 20 hrs. of flying time is taken into consideration for a USAF pilot slot as the number of points you can get for it tops out. I dunno about the RAF.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: IH8B6
Posted 2006-06-26 21:18:36 and read 4980 times.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
Dude, DCA is the worst school out there, do a little research. You don't have to look for a big flight school you can go to your local airport and do the SAME training at DCA for about 30K. As far as the latter part of the question, the answer is no, there are military pilots right now in the streets contemplating about leaving the pilot proffesion beause nobody would hire them. There are thounsands of CIV pilots with 4000+ hours experinece. Airlines prefer those guys. Airlines put emphasis now on multicrew experience and lots and lots of hours. Most military pilots don't have both of those requirements. A lot endup going to the regionals first so what's the point?

And your info source is what? Your flight instructor? The flights school owner? For being 16-20 you sure know alot about who airlines want and about miltary pilots in the streets. Very impressive.......

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Lt-AWACS
Posted 2006-06-27 00:28:40 and read 4938 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 29):
Only up to about 20 hrs. of flying time is taken into consideration for a USAF pilot slot as the number of points you can get for it tops out. I dunno about the RAF.

No the PCSM goes to 200+ hours which is how you can max out not 20 (unless something changed in the last two months or so).
the codes below are copied from the USAF PCSM score book-
FLIGHT HOUR CODE DEFINITIONS
(0) 0 hours (1) 1-5 hours (2) 6-10 hours (3) 11-20 hours (4) 21-40 hours
(5) 41-60 hours (6) 61-80 hours (7) 81-100 hours (8) 101-200 hours (9) 201+ hours

*** NOTE: When updating flight hours, hours less than 0.4 are rounded down and hours 0.5 and greater are rounded up ***

Your score from above is put in with your AFOQT pilot score and your BAT test to get the final PCSM. Adding civilian hours is the only way to update the PCSM score once the others are final.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Redheads are nuts, but that is okay

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-27 00:49:31 and read 4925 times.

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 31):
No the PCSM goes to 200+ hours which is how you can max out not 20 (unless something changed in the last two months or so).

Yeah, you're right. My brain left out a zero, but either way it tops out so there's no sense in getting a whole ton of hours.

PS- I love block counting.

[Edited 2006-06-27 00:50:17]

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-27 02:43:04 and read 4884 times.

Quoting B52murph (Reply 28):
you can get 'Force Shaped'

You gotta love the HR peckerwoods who sit around and think up these words. They all mean the same thing...you're out of a job. Do they really think we are so stupid that we don't understand them? RIFed, made redundant (I do love that British term), downsized, rightsized, yad yada yada...it's all fired.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 32):
but either way it tops out so there's no sense in getting a whole ton of hours.

It may top out in the selection process but stick time is still stick time and the more you have of it the more you know how to react in odd situations.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: N766UA
Posted 2006-06-27 02:48:14 and read 4881 times.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 33):
It may top out in the selection process but stick time is still stick time and the more you have of it the more you know how to react in odd situations.

Well, I'd agree, but from what I've heard from a few guys this isn't neccessarily good to the AF. They want you to fly their way, and the less time you have the less into flying your way you are and the easier it is for them to mold you.

If I were gunna give advice, though, it'd be if you love flying like I do... keep doing it... screw topping out and screw molding.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: DeltaGator
Posted 2006-06-27 02:53:45 and read 4878 times.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 34):
They want you to fly their way, and the less time you have the less into flying your way you are and the easier it is for them to mold you.

Very true. The military has a good way of making you do it there way...whether it makes sense or not...and usually in triplicate. You just have to love the REMFs sitting around the Pentagon making the rules.

Topic: RE: Air Force And Becoming A Pilot?
Username: Jhooper
Posted 2006-06-27 07:27:58 and read 4825 times.

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 1):
and then once you are there the washout rate is substantial.

I know there was a time when they'd wash out every other guy, but it's really not that way anymore. Perhaps, it works in cycles, but my class (last year) only lost one person who just "couldn't fly" (and really, it was her attitude more than anything else that got her washed out), then we had one person quit and two more who washed out on academic busts (which is pretty hard to do if you are committed and are smart enough to have a college degree), or about a 15% attrition rate in my class. Plus they were all in my sister flight; everyone who started in my flight on day one made it.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 11):
Forget about being a military pilot, not only does the job suck now at days and former mil can't get flying jobs anywhere but you've got a better chance at winning the lottery than being a mil pilot.

No offense, but how do you know the job sucks? So far I see it as the best job in the world, and minus some of the petty bickering that goes on over really stupid things, most people in my squadron see it that way too.

And if you're just looking at statistics, then maybe it is hard to get into pilot training (although I wouldn't say you have a better shot at winning the lottery). But if you know what they're looking for and prepare yourself ahead of time to meet the qualifications, with a little luck it's possible to get picked up for a slot.

About former military pilots not able to get jobs, that's an unsubstantiated claim, at best.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 13):
Airlines put emphasis now on multicrew experience and lots and lots of hours.

On my last trip, we had a crew of 11. Don't you think we may bring something to the table in regard to crew coordination. As for hours, the airlines want to see multiengine turbine PIC time--as long as you meet their requirements, you compete on other factors. Hours aren't everything, and in fact I'd say once you've been selected for an interview, you've already met the hours requirement and now they're looking at your personal attributes to see what kind of employee/crewmember you're going to be.


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