Are there possible 787s orders at Farnborough?
Sacha

Yep,
I think EK comes to mind. Maybe QR as they are upset about the whole A350 fiasco. They're talking about going with Boeing. If those two do order it can worth up to 160 frames.

EK is resonably likely - what about BA signing a MoU?

or perhaps the TUI group ?

Sorry, but what is a MoU?

Quoting LY777 (Reply 4): Sorry, but what is a MoU?

Memorandum of Understanding - its a non-binding contract saying that the company intends to buy.

I wouldnt at all be surprised of another American carrier signs on... AA or UA come to mind... Primaris slots are free and we'll see airlines pick those up...

If EK announces the 787, you will see Qatar follow suite. The Middle East is becoming very competitive and if you dont have the rights plans you will lose out.

I have the strong feeling that we will see the announcement of the Lufthansa order in Farnborough, which will definitely contain the 787 or the A350/A370.
It will be mixed Airbus/Boeing order and very likely announced all together.
My prediction is that Boeing will launch the 787-10 at Farnborough with the likely launch customers BA, VS, EK and LH. On the other hand VS, EK and LH are also potential launch customers for the "all new A350"/A370 so the chance are 50-50 for either aircraft.
The reason why I believe that LH will go for the 787-10 is quite simple. They always have stated that they don�t want to become all Airbus and I don�t believe that the 747 will become the only Boeing left in LH�s fleet.
LH will very likely order the A320 -and very likely the "Enhanced" version- to replace the 737 classics (it will be sad to see them go) and additional A380s as it has been rumored. In addition to that Boeing will get an order for either the 777-300ER or the 747-8 as 747-400 replacement and the 787-10 as a A340-300 replacement.

My money is on LH buying a few 787s, maybe also some 787-3s as A300 replacements. Plus, DE might want to go shopping for 767 replacements as well, for which the 787-8 would be perfect.

And I hope LH will finally order the 747-8I and -8F to replace the old 744s and expand at LCAG, and also that LH finally orders the 737NG. Nothing against Airbus, but it would be nice if LH keeps the tradition of being one of the first ever 737 customers and to continue to fly the 737 for the future. However I doubt the 773ER will ever fly for LH because they're already due to receive the A346HGW soon to expand their current 10 aircraft big fleet.

[Edited 2006-07-11 17:15:33]

I believe that the big news will be the 787-10, with at least EK launching it.

I don't see AA or UA signing an order yet, but would not be surprised if they have quietly made some refundable deposits for slots down the road.

The biggest question will be an announcement of Boeing's decision on a second production line for the 787.

A 748i sales would be a nice surprise, but still a surprise.

The thing is with so much uncertainty over the A350/A370 I think LH will go with the 787 and the 748I (they had expressed a great deal of interest in this).

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8): My money is on LH buying a few 787s, maybe also some 787-3s as A300 replacements. Plus, DE might want to go shopping for 767 replacements as well, for which the 787-8 would be perfect. And I hope LH will finally order the 747-8I and -8F to replace the old 744s and expand at LCAG, and also that LH finally orders the 737NG. Nothing against Airbus, but it would be nice if LH keeps the tradition of being one of the first ever 737 customers and to continue to fly the 737 for the future. However I doubt the 773ER will ever fly for LH because they're already due to receive the A346HGW soon to expand their current 10 aircraft big fleet.

It is amazing how I agree with you
But I doubt that LH will order the 787-3 since they said it would be too heavy. But maybe I am wrong on this one and they will order it. It is the only aircraft available at the moment in that market share. LH is very hard to predict in their orders - a while ago they said that they will never order the CRJ 900 and ordered it anyway.
DE is in no condition to order new planes at the moment but in a few years I can see them ordering the 787-8. It is the perfect replacement for their 767-330s (I love this customer code on 767s and 757s).
I doubt that we will see the NG -like you I hope for it since LH and the 737 belong together - I know it was rumor a while ago but I guess it came from a misinterpretation of the newspaper article where it was stated how much it would cost replacing the old 737s with new 737NGs.

[Edited 2006-07-11 17:33:26]

AA and UA are a possibility, while Delta probably won't order until next year.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 6): If EK announces the 787, you will see Qatar follow suite. The Middle East is becoming very competitive and if you dont have the rights plans you will lose out.

I agree, the market there is booming, not only internationally but internal, over the past year there have been a few new low cost carriers expand in that market.

Tom

There might be a slew of orders for the 787 to sanp up what ever production slots are remaining which beg the questions...Will Boeing announce a 2nd 787 line at the air show? My thinking is that they will along with launching the 787-10.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14): There might be a slew of orders for the 787 to sanp up what ever production slots are remaining which beg the questions...Will Boeing announce a 2nd 787 line at the air show? My thinking is that they will along with launching the 787-10

I'm not so sure - whilst AB is not delivering anything comparable - Boeing doesn't want to chomp up the demand too fast as that will drive down prices due to the plane not being in short supply. They also need to presaude all of the partners to invest in more factories - if one of them doesn't want to / can't then it won't happen.

I think we may well see a 787-10 at Farnborough - but it will replace the existing 789 (effectively be a longer 789) that hasn't really gathered many sales.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 15): They also need to presaude all of the partners to invest in more factories - if one of them doesn't want to / can't then it won't happen.

Do consider that some of the big capital investments (autoclaves in particular) could potentially be used for future Boeing projects. If an autoclave can bake a 787 fuselage, it could likely bake a 737-sized fuselage. Some conversion may be necessary, but 787 tooling appears much more flexible than previous generation aircraft.

Boeing could open a second line for 2010-2012, then convert some of the tooling over to 737RS production many years later when 787 demand begins to fall.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 15): I think we may well see a 787-10 at Farnborough - but it will replace the existing 789 (effectively be a longer 789) that hasn't really gathered many sales.

It's very unlikely we would see the 789 stretched to an extent that the -10 would become redundant.

787-9 sales are beginning to pick-up because Boeing delayed offering firm specifications for some time. But now that the aircraft is defined, SQ and QF are on-board and others are very likely to follow.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12): AA and UA are a possibility, while Delta probably won't order until next year.

All three are extremly unlikely, especially at Farnborough.

American should be the first to be in a position to order the 787, perhaps by early 2007. The U.S. market is beginning to come around, but 2006 orders from those three are not expected.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16): Boeing could open a second line for 2010-2012, then convert some of the tooling over to 737RS production many years later when 787 demand begins to fall.

Good point - hadn't thought of that

Quoting Columba (Reply 11): DE is in no condition to order new planes at the moment

Why is that? Are they in some kind of financial problem? Because otherwise, they could start leasing a few from ILFC or GECAS for the moment until they can afford to own a few. There's not much time left though because their first 767 is slowly going on 20 years old.

Quoting Columba (Reply 11): perfect replacement for their 767-330s (I love this customer code on 767s and 757s).

So do I.   

Quoting Columba (Reply 11): I doubt that we will see the NG -like you I hope for it since LH and the 737 belong together - I know it was rumor a while ago but I guess it came from a misinterpretation of the newspaper article where it was stated how much it would cost replacing the old 737s with new 737NGs.

I doubt that would cause lots of trouble at LH. They're already notorious for lack of commonality (e.g. the CFM engines on the A320s and A319 and the IAEs on the A321), so I'm sure that replacing the 737 Classics with NGs shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1): Yep, I think EK comes to mind. Maybe QR as they are upset about the whole A350 fiasco. They're talking about going with Boeing. If those two do order it can worth up to 160 frames

You know, Im not sure with EK, they seem very intent with Airbus, they keep holding back on Boeings 787 until Airbus has finalised the A350/A370, I would not be suprised if Airbus (just to get the orders in and started) gave Emirates big discounts on buying their aircraft.

On a further note, unless anyone can provide details on orders of the 787 with no name, Im not sure that their will be any further 787 orders at Farnborough, this could be another Airbus year

I look forward to being wrong

Quoting Columba (Reply 11): But I doubt that LH will order the 787-3 since they said it would be too heavy.

I tend to believe that if LH buys the 787-3, it would be pretty much for LHR-FRA, since both airports have slot restriction issues. LH may not be able to get enough LHR slots to replace each A306 with two A321s and/or they may not want to restrict their own slots at FRA to do so. If LH buys the larger/longer-ranged 787s, then adding a small sub-fleet of 787-3s would not be onerous. But if LH does indeed choose the A350/A370, I can't see them adding 787-3s. They'll either fly the A306's until they can't, or they'll "abuse" A330s.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14): There might be a slew of orders for the 787 to sanp up what ever production slots are remaining which beg the questions...Will Boeing announce a 2nd 787 line at the air show? My thinking is that they will along with launching the 787-10.

Something to ponder for sure. Great if it happens! That would be cool. I do consider a LH order for the 747-8i a possibility but I do not see the 787 for them. They seem to like Airbus too much for whatever reason.

Quoting Leigh pilgrim (Reply 19): You know, Im not sure with EK,

Me either. It seems to be a tossup after all the negative remarks that have been made about the A-350 programme, even though the CEO of EK said Boeing had given them the plane they wanted in the 787-10.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20): I tend to believe that if LH buys the 787-3, it would be pretty much for LHR-FRA, since both airports have slot restriction issues.

It might also be for major domestic flights such as FRA-HAM, FRA-TXL and FRA-MUC. I know HAM and perhaps DUS get an AB6, and TXL and MUC might (correct me if I'm wrong) get one of those. However you're right, buying the 787-3 would very likely be for FRA-LHR but not only for FRA-LHR.

My bets:
-Second line for 787 to go online in 2009
-787-10 will be launched by EK and LH (Lufthansa will use theirs as the replacement for older A340s); LH also orders -9 and -3 along with 748I
-AA takes over Primaris delivery slots for 20 787-8s; also orders 787-9 to replace 763ERs
-QR switches to 787

Wild card guesses:
-At least one US-based LCC orders the 787 to expand to trans-Atlantic routes
-AF orders the 787 instead of the new A350/370 due to possible Rolls-Royce engine exclusivity on the redesigned Airbus product
-DL, BA make order announcements: chooses 787 over A350/370

Highly unlikely:
-VS order for 787 (VS seems to be pro-Airbus as of late)
-US dumps A350 order and switches to 787

Just my 2 cents...

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 23): -AA takes over Primaris delivery slots for 20 787-8s; also orders 787-9 to replace 763ERs

Well, a 787-8 slot is just as good as a slot for a 787-9. At this point, they are interchangeable, since the actual aircrafts have not begun to be built. (Air New Zealand for example). I think when AA does order the 787, they will stick to commonality and order the -9 to replace A300 and 767-300 and take options on the -10 to replace old 777s.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18): Why is that? Are they in some kind of financial problem? Because otherwise, they could start leasing a few from ILFC or GECAS for the moment until they can afford to own a few. There's not much time left though because their first 767 is slowly going on 20 years old.

They are in no good financial shape. Their CEO said in an interview last year that there are no plans to replace the 767 in a near future and they will keep them for some time. I believe the last one was delivered 1996.
Their 757-330s are fairly new and they have cross crew qualification so this might also be a reason. The only way I can see DE ordering the 787 is if Boeing is making them a good deal for their 757/767s.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20): I tend to believe that if LH buys the 787-3, it would be pretty much for LHR-FRA, since both airports have slot restriction issues. LH may not be able to get enough LHR slots to replace each A306 with two A321s and/or they may not want to restrict their own slots at FRA to do so. If LH buys the larger/longer-ranged 787s, then adding a small sub-fleet of 787-3s would not be onerous. But if LH does indeed choose the A350/A370, I can't see them adding 787-3s. They'll either fly the A306's until they can't, or they'll "abuse" A330s.

The A300 is mainly used within German. It flies FRA-TXL, FRA-HAM and FRA-MUC on a daily basis. The other trunk routes are FRA-LHR and FRA-ATH as well as other European cities. For the flights within Europe the 787-3 might be a good plane but for the short hops within Germany the 787-3 carries too much extra weight - at least this is what I have heard !
But one thing must be considered, the A300 carries a lot of cargo on the domestic routes something the A320 is not capable of so this might be one reason why the 787-3 still has chances with LH. Let�see. If they have no other option they might order it just like they have ordered the CRJ 900 although they said that they won�t order it.

Quoting Columba (Reply 7): My prediction is that Boeing will launch the 787-10 at Farnborough with the likely launch customers BA, VS, EK and LH.

Has the fact that BA has said it will not place any orders until its pension deficit is sorted out passed you by?

this seems odd to me.

pray tell why boeing announces orders at a british airshow? why do it at an airshow at all for that matter?

Quoting Gary2880 (Reply 27): pray tell why boeing announces orders at a british airshow? why do it at an airshow at all for that matter?

Amen. The days of big announcments at airshows *should* be going away. There is no good business case for it. Momentum for a product has to do with total orders and their timing. Only the marketing people who want to spend more $$$ on next years display care about airshow orders.

Boeing no longer holds orders for airshows unless the customer requests it.

N

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 29): Boeing no longer holds orders for airshows unless the customer requests it.

And the year's premier airshow with the world's aviation press in attendance would be the most logical place for a customer to announce a launch order for a new family of planes (787-10 and 747-8I).

EADS orders one for reverse engineering.

Quoting F14ATomcat (Reply 31): EADS orders one for reverse engineering.

yeah to help sort out electrical wiring problems!!   

Arkia order is coming

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 23): -QR switches to 787

They do have a press conference scheduled for the 17th. I wonder if this is for announcing the 77W order or 77W and 787s, or A350s 

The 777 order should be a given, and I bet they announce their 787/A350 order, as well.

That they have not announced their 777 order yet makes me wonder if they too will be a 787-10 launch customer (along with some 787-8s and/or 787-9s).

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 23): -DL, BA make order announcements: chooses 787 over A350/370

The DL portion could happen, they did indicate they were going to make a decision by summer end, may be a sweet spot 

I see LH ordering the A320E, the B777-300ER and the A350, but time will tell...

 

Quoting Johnny (Reply 37): I see LH ordering the A320E, the B777-300ER and the A350, but time will tell... Smile

If the A350/A370 gets more and more postponed the chances of a LH order will shrink more and more. LH is evaluating both aircraft for quite some time now and will place an order this year and I highly doubt that it will be on December 31st but in the next weeks/months. Farnborough might be a good oppurtunity.
The 777-300ER has a small possiblity but more likely is the 747-8. Boeing will make LH a good deal since it would help the 747-8 program a lot if there can get LH, with a big Airbus fleet and the A380 on order to get the 747-8.
I also expect them to order the freighter version, too - maybe not now since LH-Cargo said they will not place orders for new aircraft anytime soon.
Agreed on the A320E and add some additional A380s to it.