Questions here. When will Midwest Express get new aircraft (ERJ/CRJ)???? Their B1900 flights are hard to get any seating on out of FNT for my business clients that live close to FNT. I have hear they are looking into it, but does anyone know when and what they are going to go with??????


Thanks
Chuck

Also they dropped the Express a long time ago!

They are not getting any new planes for a little while, Midwest Connect is losing the leases on the Be-1900's over the next year and the DoJets are slowly replacing them on some routes. ZW seems to be the front runner for the 50 Seat contract, as Rankin is now the CEO.




Sean

FutureFO's right; Midwest Airlines has no definite plans, at least publicly, yet. Perhaps more 328JETs, and they're in talks over possible 50-seat contracts. Air Wisconsin and ExpressJet have both been mentioned repeatedly as likely operators. The 1900s will need to be replaced with something over the next year as they're phased out, but with what is the big question.

You use alot of question marks.

Anyway.

Midwest Airlines is currently deciding whether to sign with a third-party carrier or acquire more aircraft for the Skyway fleet.

Rumor has it they have acquired one more 328JET for Skyway, and possibly a second.

The order they had for ERJs was canceled a long time ago.

Going with a third carrier seems like the cheapest option for the most expansion at this time. The top two names popping up are ExpressJet and Air Wisconsin.

As far as when? Probably nothing too soon. Midwest doesn't have alot of money to spend, and considering they're one of the few airlines *not* in Ch. 11, they'll be very careful about making a significant investment unless they know they'll get a good return.

But they are not that far from hitting that wall on the edge of profitability and BK proceedings.



Sean

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 5): But they are not that far from hitting that wall on the edge of profitability and BK proceedings.

They had a net loss for the first quarter? I hope the sky is a little brighter for the upcoming second quarter!!

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 5): But they are not that far from hitting that wall on the edge of profitability and BK proceedings.

Exactly the point. They're not in Ch. 11 ... but not far from it, either.

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 5): But they are not that far from hitting that wall on the edge of profitability and BK proceedings.

Wouldn't go that far...but they have to keep growing or face being inconsequental. They do not have the net worth to sustain big losses over an extended time which makes them more of a buyout candidate than chapter 11 candidate. Someone just may buy them one day for the 717 aircraft. Some expanding LLC that already has a big fleet of 717s. Wonder who would fit that bill?

You guys think YX connect has a better chance of gettin a third carrier or new aircraft for its skyway fleet?

Public information on all of this is fairly scant, but one telltale sign of the likely short lifespan of the Beech 1900 in the Midwest Connect fleet is their recent action regarding Escanaba.

--Escanaba is one of four cities where Midwest Connect is is subsidized by the Essential Air Service program

--Midwest Connect bid to renew their Escanba service not for the standard two years but just through the end of May 2007. That's the same time their other three EAS cities, all flown with Beech 1900, also have their contracts expire.

--Midwest Connect requested, and received, the authority to upgrade Escanaba from 3x/day Beech 1900's to 2x/day FRJ regional jets at any point between now and the end of the contract in May 2007.

I think this clearly shows that Midwest is planning to be rid of the 1900's in the next year or so. That doesn't mean the plans will definitely happen on that exact timeline, but the writing is on the wall.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 9): You guys think YX connect has a better chance of gettin a third carrier or new aircraft for its skyway fleet?

For better or worse, I think the odds are much better for them bringing in a third party rather than adding a new type to Skyway at this point:

(1) New types are expensive to add, and Midwest is probably more eager to spend that type of money on a replacement for the M80 fleet.

(2) New types take time a long time to acquire, be trained on, gear up for, etc. They need more RJ lift sooner rather than later.

(3) There is a lot of 50-seat RJ lift out there looking for a home, and so Midwest can probably contract with someone to provide this at rather competitive prices than, say 5 years ago.

(4) The market for conventional RJ's is declining (the CRJ and ERJ) and buying into a family of what could be a dying line might not be wise. If Midwest buys CRJ's or ERJ's for Skyway, they are probably stuck with that type for a good while. By contractnig with someone else for now, they can better see how things shake out.

As much as I would like to see all of Midwest Connect flying stay in-house, I suspect they will contract with someone else for 15-20 50-seat RJs to being in the spring of 2007. That's my guess, anyway.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 11): 3) There is a lot of 50-seat RJ lift out there looking for a home, and so Midwest can probably contract with someone to provide this at rather competitive prices than, say 5 years ago.

Indeed. I just got back from Tucson and there are loads parked there. Mostly Flyi metal, but some US and others. I imagine the prices/costs would be a bargin.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 11): (4) The market for conventional RJ's is declining (the CRJ and ERJ) and buying into a family of what could be a dying line might not be wise. If Midwest buys CRJ's or ERJ's for Skyway, they are probably stuck with that type for a good while. By contractnig with someone else for now, they can better see how things shake out.

I can't see any airline the size of YX buying any regional jet unless they were going to own it for some time. Seems, IMHO, that it would be more economical to just lease them and upgrade as business permits. That is probably the reason they are contracting out...easy to drop them.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 11): (1) New types are expensive to add, and Midwest is probably more eager to spend that type of money on a replacement for the M80 fleet.

Roger that!!

I think ZW will get the job. They already fly for US. Their in a good state for another contract. RP is another possibility. They have a large fleet of ac.

MCOflyer

Having just won a contract to fly 44 aircraft for Continental Express, I highly doubt you will see us adding yet another codeshare partner to the Chautauqua side of things. It would be nice though, Midwest is a great airline!

-Tony

So even if they do sign someone to fly some new planes, they would keep the FRJ's and fly them under skyway, right? Also, any chance they would get some props or are they goin all jet?

A rumor popped up the other day that Air Wisconsin was talking to a number of vendors regarding "Cookie Warmers" which is significant because Midwest serves freshly baked Chocolate Chip cookies in flight. ZW management later confirmed that this rumor was true. They claim they needed the information in order to make the bid since they knew that if they got the flying that they would have to help provide the "best care in the air".

A related rumor says that if ZW does get the flying, they would likely take 20 of the old DH planes out of the desert. This has some people nervous since Indy air apparently didn't have the best maintenance program for their engines, and the crews never performed flex takeoffs.

I can tell you this much. If ZW does get the Midwest flying and opens a crew base in MKE, MKE will be the senior base in the company, and most of the pilots flying out of MKE will be our most senior pilots, all of whom have flown 20-25 years at least with the company and most of them were 146 pilots.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 16): I can tell you this much. If ZW does get the Midwest flying and opens a crew base in MKE, MKE will be the senior base in the company, and most of the pilots flying out of MKE will be our most senior pilots, all of whom have flown 20-25 years at least with the company and most of them were 146 pilots.

If tht is correct, how could they win the bid or afford the flying? All senior guys would up costs considerably..

My opinion is that MKE would be used as mx base while MCI would be the pilot, and fa base.

MCOflyer

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 17): If tht is correct, how could they win the bid or afford the flying? All senior guys would up costs considerably..

It doesn't work that way. Air Wisconsin is still paying those senior pilots regardless if they work in PHL or MKE. Money paid to senior pilots in MKE will be offset by the more junior pilots in PHL/ORF/wherever.

Hopefully Expressjet can win this one. They have well maintained aircraft ready to go, and there would be no need to go dig some out of the desert. In addition the crews would already be trained in ready since CO is releasing them from 69 a/c worth of flying.

This would be growth for AWAC, but if Expressjet doesn't get it there may be layoffs.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 19): It doesn't work that way. Air Wisconsin is still paying those senior pilots regardless if they work in PHL or MKE. Money paid to senior pilots in MKE will be offset by the more junior pilots in PHL/ORF/wherever.

Each contract does not have to be self sufficient? Wow. No wonder everyone is having a hard time making money.

its true, this additional work, if zw got it, would only spread out costs, thus making them for competative for future bids..That's how business works, spread out overhead, that way u're more competative!

Quoting MLIGRBZW825 (Reply 21): its true, this additional work, if zw got it, would only spread out costs, thus making them for competative for future bids..That's how business works, spread out overhead, that way u're more competative!

Surprising the airlines paying more would not get wind of this and want a new deal. Must not be paying attention.

Here's my pipedream... ("pipedread??? Yeah, I can type...)

They buy those RJs, codeshare with US, and then start some eastern focus city at PIT, PHL or CLT, and really allow US to expand international routes...

Given the mess at PHL though, let's leave it with PIT and CLT for now...

I am not sure what YX's plans are really. It would be nice to see them grow and to see the Midwestern network really filled in by this carrier...

Quoting JBo (Reply 4): Rumor has it they have acquired one more 328JET for Skyway, and possibly a second.

It is more than rumor, the first one is coming in October, the second in mid November. There will be an upgrade class soon for 328J captains, and for f/o's as well. My source is Skyway ALPA leadership.

I'd like to see YX increase service in OMA, since last time I heard YX still considers OMA to be a "focus city". I'm thinking maybe either new service to LAX or some Florida city. Does OMA have any chance of getting some more service or has YX given up there?

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 24): It is more than rumor, the first one is coming in October, the second in mid November. There will be an upgrade class soon for 328J captains, and for f/o's as well. My source is Skyway ALPA leadership.

I had heard something along those lines. That's quite awesome.

I'm guessing the new tails will be 362SK and 363SK if they keep the sequential numbering ... someone already took 361.

Thank you for answering my questions. Sorry about all the question marks.

chuck

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 25): Does OMA have any chance of getting some more service or has YX given up there?

Not so much as given up. Went to MCI instead and doing quite well.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 28): Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 25): Does OMA have any chance of getting some more service or has YX given up there? Not so much as given up. Went to MCI instead and doing quite well

Omaha courted Midwest and welcomed them with open, enthusiastic arms. Then a short time later when Southwest came to Omaha, Midwest was yesterday's news. In particular OMA-LAX never lived up to potential as Omaha threw its support behind savior Southwest. No offense to Southwest, but where has Southwest taken you, Omaha? All these years later and it's still just Midway, Phoenix, Vegas and St Louis. Not even a single nonstop LAX or MCO after all this time, much less any other useful point-to-point route. But that's beside the point.

Omaha has never demonstrated enough interest in being loyal and supportive to Midwest -- at least not in a way that justifies new routes from OMA. And therefore OMA probably won't ever be much more than it is today for Midwest. I wouldn't be surprised to see some RJ OMA-MCI flights if/when Midwest gets a stable of 50-seaters and continues to build up Kansas City. But probably nothing more than that for OMA.

Quoting JBo (Reply 26): Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 24): It is more than rumor, the first one is coming in October, the second in mid November. There will be an upgrade class soon for 328J captains, and for f/o's as well. My source is Skyway ALPA leadership. I had heard something along those lines. That's quite awesome

That's great news! Not that I'm biased or anything, but how about S A I N T L O U I S for some BE1 replacement with the new FRJ lift? I'm gettting a little tired of the Beech on that route, and more of my co-workers are defecting to the AA* Embraers. I believe MKE-STL is the very last competitive market that Midwest Connect sends the BE1 too, and by "competitive" I use the term loosely.

Have the 1900's already started being removed from the fleet? What's the outline in terms of when the leases expire and the 1900's must be returned cause I'm guessing YX isn't going to be renewing leases on them.

I wonder if YX will ever consider building up an eastern or western network with at least a focus city someplace in the long term. It would be nice to see them add a station other than MCI and MKE...

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 31): Have the 1900's already started being removed from the fleet? What's the outline in terms of when the leases expire and the 1900's must be returned cause I'm guessing YX isn't going to be renewing leases on them.

N801SK was removed from the fleet last November.
N81SK was removed a few months ago ... April I think.

Currently down to 10 in the fleet, and I don't think they can remove any more without having additional capacity in place. My guess is if any leases expire between now and the arrival of the new 328JETs...they may be filing temporary short-term extensions on those leases.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 32): I wonder if YX will ever consider building up an eastern or western network with at least a focus city someplace in the long term. It would be nice to see them add a station other than MCI and MKE...

It would be awhile..if ever. The fleet is maxed out and there is not a lot of talk about adding incremental aircraft. No more 717s and right now they are looking for replacements for the MD-80s. No additional planes means they are probably going to stick with MKE and MCI and tinker with those cities.