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Topic: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dc10s4ever
Posted 2006-07-30 17:11:31 and read 13618 times.

AA plans to remove the ovens in the coach galley on most of its fleet. The aircraft effected will be the S80 (complete), 737, most of the 757 (the 757ER that are flown on legs to Europe keep them all others will have them removed) , and the 767-200 (used in transcon markets). Since these airplanes are flown on routes that no longer offer any meal service in coach the ovens are useless extra weight. The 767-300, 777 and the A300 will retain their ovens since they are still used on certain flights were those aircraft are flown.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2006-07-30 17:14:20 and read 13614 times.

Somewhat old news. The MD-80 mods begin in Sept, and will also see the addition of 4 economy seats as the galleys get ripped out.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Vasu
Posted 2006-07-30 17:31:27 and read 13521 times.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
as the galleys get ripped out.

If the galleys get ripped out, where will the crew prepare drinks / store the duty free trolleys etc?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Flypdx
Posted 2006-07-30 17:32:07 and read 13521 times.

Removing them from some 757s, doesn't that limit fleet utilization, because only certain aircraft can fly the longer routes? Or are there already certain aircraft that only fly the longer atlantic routes?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: WN230
Posted 2006-07-30 17:41:54 and read 13464 times.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 2):
If the galleys get ripped out, where will the crew prepare drinks / store the duty free trolleys etc?

No galleys = no trolleys
Solution . . . more overhead bin space for duty free items and drinks
and a fold-down table to work at.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: AeroWesty
Posted 2006-07-30 17:45:15 and read 13427 times.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 2):
If the galleys get ripped out, where will the crew prepare drinks / store the duty free trolleys etc?

Duty free, on domestic flights? Nope.  Smile And I don't believe all the galleys will be ripped out, just the extra galley space where the ovens were, IIRC.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Letsgetwet
Posted 2006-07-30 17:49:22 and read 13401 times.

If you are going to have a beaverage and snack service you have to have a galley.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-30 17:50:11 and read 13401 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
(the 757ER that are flown on legs to Europe keep them all others will have them removed

Aside from the fact that there is officially no such airplane as the 752ER....does AA have a subfleet of ETOPS qualified 752s that it uses for its transatlantic and select latin american/transatantic services? Those aircraft will keep warm galleys?

I find the info concerning the 752 confusing......on one hand, AA is adding winglets and plans to use the 752s on longer routes (all of the talk about MIA-regional Brazilian airports, for example, once authorities can be worked out) and on the other hand, they are pulling the galleys out of the airplanes....odd.

-----

I hope that AA is not making a mistake here......as things hopefully normalize in the US airline industry, at some point, AA may wish to return to being a full service carrier that offers meals onboard (for competitive reasons, etc).....and it will cost a lot to reinstall all of those ovens.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Cactus739
Posted 2006-07-30 18:08:31 and read 13317 times.

Any ideas how much weight they'll be pulling off each plane?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dc10s4ever
Posted 2006-07-30 18:29:02 and read 13215 times.

As far as the 757 fleet is concerned AA has about 20 or so that are designated as 757ER, they fly routes to Hawaii and Europe. The other 757s dont have overwater equipment, thus would never fly Hawaii or Europe and have no need for ovens. Now on the S80, they were originally equipped with double galley in the back. The second galley will be removed and seats added. A small galley will remain to park the carts, and store beverages etc.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: EWRCabincrew
Posted 2006-07-30 18:32:39 and read 13209 times.

What if, by chance a non oven galley goes into rotation for a flight where hot meals are served. It would bound to occur. Would be a flight I do not want to work.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dc10s4ever
Posted 2006-07-30 18:35:41 and read 13177 times.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 10):
What if, by chance a non oven galley goes into rotation for a flight where hot meals are served. It would bound to occur. Would be a flight I do not want to work.

Basically the flights that still have hot meals in Y are Europe, Asia, and deep South America. AA will NEVER dispatch a S80, 737, or a non ER 757 on any of those routes. So it is safe to say it will never happen.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2006-07-30 18:35:50 and read 13177 times.

There are technically 4 subfleets of 757's:

1) ex-TWA PW-powered 757's: to be removed from the fleet as leases expire over the next 2 years
2) non-over water equiped 757's: some of the older 757's, that a limited to domestic runs as they do not have rafts....they may have made all 757's overwater equipment to increase fleet flexibility
3) overwater equiped 757's: have rafts and used to fly routes to/from Carribean, Latin America, better offshore routings, etc
4) ETOPS 757's: the newest delivery 757's, used for Hawaii & Trans-Atlantic, will receive winglets, will retain ovens in coach galleys.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-30 18:36:25 and read 13163 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
As far as the 757 fleet is concerned AA has about 20 or so that are designated as 757ER, they fly routes to Hawaii and Europe.

Cool, thanks for pointing that out....thus the 757ERs (as AA is calling them) are the ETOPS capable airplanes, thus, there is a 757 subfleet for longer haul operations.

Its going to be interesting to see how many 757s keep their warm galleys.....if AA plans to use the 752s on more longer routes, more than 20 will need warm galleys. I am still thinking that this could be a mistake, especially on airplanes like the 738 and 752, at some point, AA may want to use these airplanes on more longer range routes and will then have to replace the galleys. Time will tell.......thanks for the info!

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Captaink
Posted 2006-07-30 18:38:41 and read 13163 times.

It is sad to see that is cost cutting measure is permanent. I used to somewhat think that it is a temporary thing, until the airlines get back on their feet. But we can beasically expect never to see meal service on certain flights again.

Does CO still offer meal service?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2006-07-30 18:40:07 and read 13147 times.

They can always do cold food service if it comes to it - sandwiches, salads, as most CO flights do.

Plus the ovens will probably just sit around in a warehouse for the time being.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-30 18:44:55 and read 13127 times.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 14):
Does CO still offer meal service?

Yes....they do. CO serves snacks, meals, etc in both F and Y at the appropriate times.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: N801NW
Posted 2006-07-30 19:05:05 and read 13020 times.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):

Plus the ovens will probably just sit around in a warehouse for the time being.

I believe NW is doing the same thing. I was wondering whether they would save the ovens or send them to the nearest dump. er, "Recycling Facility."

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2006-07-30 19:29:45 and read 12927 times.

I guess I too am a little surprised the ovens are going from all 757's and 737's. Some 737's head to Caribbean/South America and I guess I was hopeful AA would bring meal service back to transcon/Hawaii flights. I guess not.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2006-07-30 19:33:55 and read 12896 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
The aircraft effected will be the S80 (complete), 737, most of the 757 (the 757ER that are flown on legs to Europe keep them all others will have them removed) , and the 767-200 (used in transcon markets). Since these airplanes are flown on routes that no longer offer any meal service in coach the ovens are useless extra weight.

All flights to South America (as well as POS, BGI, and, UVF) have hot meal service, and many are flown wiht 738s.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Lredlefsen
Posted 2006-07-30 20:01:37 and read 12805 times.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 14):
But we can beasically expect never to see meal service on certain flights again.

Come on, it's not like plane food was ever any good, no matter how far up front you sit.

Just eat something at the airport before you leave. It doesn't have to be McDonald's if you look around. There's a great steak house at CO's EWR terminal ("Gallagher's"). MIA has the "Top of the Port" restaurant. I'm sure there's some "Zagat Guide to Airport Dining" somewhere...

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
They can always do cold food service if it comes to it

Are cold meals refrigerated until they're served? If so, then they won't be able to remove any refrigeration equipment without kissing off on cold meal service, too, right?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dc10s4ever
Posted 2006-07-30 20:20:25 and read 12739 times.

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 20):
Are cold meals refrigerated until they're served? If so, then they won't be able to remove any refrigeration equipment without kissing off on cold meal service, too, right?

There is no refreidgeration equipment on any of AA's aircraft. Most stuff is kept cold with dry ice.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Jetstar
Posted 2006-07-30 20:42:14 and read 12638 times.

I do not miss the meals on AA flights, most of the meals were ok but some were uneatable because someone in the kitchen who thought that because they like pepper or some other spices, everyone else should like it to.

I would rather spend the money and buy something that I like either off airport on at an airport shop. Now when I fly I carry a little foldable insulated cooler, I stop either at a Subway or similar type chain sub shop for a sandwich or buy one at an airport shop and carry it on the plane, small bistro sized coolers and bags are not considered one of your 2 carry on item allowance. I usually gat a bag of chips and a cookie to round out the meal and wait until the beverage service so I have something to drink with my meal. This way I get to eat what I want, not be told that “sorry we are out of your selection, this is all we have left”

On a recent flight back from TPA, my wife and I enjoyed some delicious wraps we purchased at the airport, the passenger seated opposite me on the aisle kept looking at my wrap as all he had to eat was a bag of pretzels.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: DL4EVR
Posted 2006-07-30 20:50:53 and read 12607 times.

This is common practice these days. DL removed all of their ovens in Y on the MD-88 a few years ago (2003 I think). The 738s still have all of them though as well as a good portion of 757s as these are used on Latin American runs.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: DTWAGENT
Posted 2006-07-30 23:03:32 and read 11398 times.

AA does not have to worry about feeding anyone in coach class. I was on 2 7:00am flights and nothing was offered to even purchase to eat. And getting anything to drink was like pulling teeth. American Eagle howeve, gave us can's of soft drinks to drink. But, if AA proves this to be a big money saver, we will see all the other carriers doing the same...

Chuck

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Thering
Posted 2006-07-30 23:05:18 and read 11398 times.

Now we can just remember the time when good meals, like real breackfasts, lunchs or dinners were served even in a 1hr flight...

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
and the A300

Wich flights flow by the A300 have meal service?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2006-07-30 23:16:08 and read 11263 times.

Quoting Thering (Reply 25):

Wich flights flow by the A300 have meal service?

JFK-STI/SDQ/MBJ
MIA-LIM/GYE

I really don't think they are going to get rid of kitchens on all their 738s. It makes no sense. They serve hot meals on all Miami-South America flights, many flown with 738s.

AA has extensive meal service on their Latin America/Caribbean network. This includes:

*All JFK-South America flights.
*All JFK-Caribbean flights except CUN.
*All BOS-Caribbean flights except SJU.
*All MIA-South America flights.
*All MIA-POS/BGI/UVF flights.
*All DFW-South America flights.
*DFW-LIR
*EWR-SJU

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Francoflier
Posted 2006-07-30 23:33:28 and read 11082 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
AA has extensive meal service on their Latin America/Caribbean network.

Cereal or 'breakfast burrito' (...) on morning flights, a tasteless sandwich for lunch, I'd hardly call that extensive.

Throw in the nonexistent smiles, carelessness and prison guard attitude of the cabin attendants, and you've got one of the worst inflight service on any airline ever, and I'd even be tempted to include the LCCs...

Yeah, throw the ovens, burn the galleys, what the hell. For what they do with it, it's just as well.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Thering
Posted 2006-07-30 23:40:38 and read 11010 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
I really don't think they are going to get rid of kitchens on all their 738s. It makes no sense. They serve hot meals on all Miami-South America flights, many flown with 738s.

AA has extensive meal service on their Latin America/Caribbean network. This includes:

*All JFK-South America flights.
*All JFK-Caribbean flights except CUN.
*All BOS-Caribbean flights except SJU.
*All MIA-South America flights.
*All MIA-POS/BGI/UVF flights.
*All DFW-South America flights.
*DFW-LIR
*EWR-SJU

This make sense.. Although, how much can be a oven's weight??
Heard that DL took of 24 cans of every flight and saved 250.000,00 dollars per year...
A oven should be at least 10 times havier than this, and considering AA's narrowbodie fleet is almost 3 times DL's, this would result in aproxametly a 7.500.000,00 dollars a year...
Considering the problem this would cause for all the routes listed above, this shouldn't be done...

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: 777fan
Posted 2006-07-31 00:32:07 and read 10501 times.

I haven't flown AA in years, nor have I particularly paid attention to what they do. Nevertheless, can someone explain to me what the extent of their IFE actually is? Do they offer buy on board on any domestic (US) flights? UA's buy on board seems to do pretty well and all of the meals offered require no heating whatsoever (salads and wraps). If AA has a similar product in Y class, it's pretty easy to understand why they'd pull some of the ovens.


777fan

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: QQflyboy
Posted 2006-07-31 00:50:21 and read 10310 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 21):
There is no refreidgeration equipment on any of AA's aircraft. Most stuff is kept cold with dry ice.

All of AA's widebodies, ie, 777, A300 and 763s/762s are equipped with chillers.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: EXMEMWIDGET
Posted 2006-07-31 00:59:09 and read 10226 times.

The ovens are already gone on the S80. AA is begining to remove the cabinets that housed the ovens in order to put in the 2 rows of seats.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: LMP737
Posted 2006-07-31 01:13:47 and read 10067 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 21):
There is no refreidgeration equipment on any of AA's aircraft. Most stuff is kept cold with dry ice.

AA's 767's and 777's have chillers in the galley's that keep things cool for items requiring it on long flights.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2006-07-31 01:25:52 and read 9946 times.

Quoting Thering (Reply 28):
how much can be a oven's weight??

Standard ovens with room for 32 entrees have an empty weight of 41-43lbs or 18-19kg, and a 757 probably have four ovens in the rear Y galley... so that's 170lbs less weight to fly around, and if you multiply that with 100 aircraft the weight savings should be quite significant, I'd say.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: AC320tech
Posted 2006-07-31 01:57:22 and read 9683 times.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 2):
If the galleys get ripped out, where will the crew prepare drinks / store the duty free trolleys etc?

Ovens, coffee makers (brewers), and coolers are all removeable on the aircraft. This will save on weight. Makes sense since AA wont do domestic meal service anymore in Coach.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: We're Nuts
Posted 2006-07-31 02:49:18 and read 9304 times.

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 24):
American Eagle howeve, gave us can's of soft drinks to drink.

That was because our galleys and trash space is so limited on RJ's that it's easier to hand out cans than let them pile up while we're serving. And then you can crush them later if you need more space in the trash bin.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Garri767
Posted 2006-07-31 02:51:46 and read 9272 times.

Im glad american eagle still serves drinks and food (food for $ but still) . I always love that coffee / hot chocolate on the 7 am flight to DFW  Wink





Garri767

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Tootallsd
Posted 2006-07-31 03:06:35 and read 9155 times.

Quoting Thering (Reply 28):
3 times DL's, this would result in aproxametly a 7.500.000,00 dollars a year...
Considering the problem this would cause for all the routes listed above, this shouldn't be done...

Yeah but you missed part of the point. They will replace the galley with four additional seats. That will generate additional revenue. There may well be no cost savings as any weight savings will be more than offset by the weight of the four additional passengers and their luggage.

The revenue increase for a full year of operation could generate somewhere between $132 million and $385 million incremental per year.

My assessment is based on (low end) 4 new seats per plane, 471 planes (Super 80s, most of the 757s), 70% load, $100 incremental revenue per seat, 4 flight legs per day of service, 250 operational days.

On the high end 4 new seats per plan, 471 planes, 85 load, $400 incremental revenue per seat, 2 flight legs per day of service (longer routes, thus higher revenue) and 300 operational days.

Feel free to criticize my assumptions -- I don't know anything -- but in doing the math you can see the potential pay-off is much larger than the cost savings discussed in the thread.

On a personal note, I like bringing my own food on board. Airports have adapted adding many more choices as they have modernized and updated over the past ten years.

[Edited 2006-07-31 03:16:36]

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: FlyDreamliner
Posted 2006-07-31 03:14:13 and read 9111 times.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 14):
Does CO still offer meal service?

CO offers cold meals on most of their flights that aren't too short. The meals are small, simple, but in my opinion a great touch, and when you are traveling and in a hurry, getting a snack on the plane can make all the difference.


I can think of some AA flights on S80s that I might want to eat something on...the S80 ORD-SAN i do my best to avoid for instance.

I am not happy see AA taking skimpy service as a long term decision. Even NW admits that when their finances are rectified, they intend to start to bring the level of service back up a bit. It seems like CO, UA, and on occasion DL have the right idea - that people want to be treated like people - not livestock on aircraft, and appreciate the airlines taking measures to make flying feel pleasurable - if not special.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: AA777SJC
Posted 2006-07-31 03:34:27 and read 8935 times.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 39):
I am not happy see AA taking skimpy service as a long term decision. Even NW admits that when their finances are rectified, they intend to start to bring the level of service back up a bit. It seems like CO, UA, and on occasion DL have the right idea - that people want to be treated like people - not livestock on aircraft, and appreciate the airlines taking measures to make flying feel pleasurable - if not special.

I would note that of the airlines you mention only AA has beaten bankruptcy so far. The great cattle car of the sky WN is the only other major that hasn't been bankrupt. If you're flying people domestic coach, having a fare thats $5 cheaper seems superior to anything you could reasonably give the customers for that $5. Business and first is a completely different animal, but we're talking coach here.

Given the choice, I'd much rather select something at the airport and take it with me than eat what they used to hand out on domestic flights. In fact I used to always buy a sandwich even when there was meal service because it was hardly ever worth eating.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: ILUVAA
Posted 2006-07-31 04:44:31 and read 8427 times.

American Airlines (AA/ AAL) operates the Boeing 757-223ET on their ETOPS/ Longer Flights. Most of you will recognize these B752's as they are the one's being fitted first with blended winglets.

There is no such model as B752ER in AA’s fleet; I don’t even know if Boeing ever produced an ER classification for the 757. I am only familiar with the ET designation standing for Extended Travel.

It is shame however that they have to remove the ovens on the MD-80's, B738's and B752's other than the ET models to save money as American used have excellent food service in the past on almost all of their flights.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: ILUVAA
Posted 2006-07-31 05:04:51 and read 8271 times.

Why does everyone love bashing AA so much, I have flown for years with American and have enjoyed 95% of my flights. Everyone seems to never have a nice thing to say even if they try about AA and it is getting a very old. Just because they happen to be the largest and not bankrupt I guess that doesn't count?

Thanks for sticking up for them AA777SJC.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: 707lvr
Posted 2006-07-31 05:22:26 and read 8129 times.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
I hope that AA is not making a mistake here......as things hopefully normalize in the US airline industry, at some point, AA may wish to return to being a full service carrier that offers meals onboard (for competitive reasons, etc).....and it will cost a lot to reinstall all of those ovens.

My first thought too. Then I remembered this is pretty much the way we always do things.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: BigGSFO
Posted 2006-07-31 05:27:08 and read 8090 times.

I think this is a good move. Times are changing and AA is maximizing their resources - again. By removing the ovens, they can indeed add more revenue per flight.

The days of full-service are evolving. The travelling public has made it clear they want transportation on short to medium flights and great tasting food is no longer relevant. Remember the days when airlines had to prepare for kosher, vegetarian, low-cal, etc. meals? Those associated costs are now being redcued. Airline food was always medicore at best so moving to BOB isn't too much of a reduction in service. I for one always get something at the terminal rather than eat anything on board. As far as IFE (which seems to be such a high priority for many A.net folk) - the iPod and video iPod has changed all of this, at least for me. I can watch/listen to whatever I want.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: SparkingWave
Posted 2006-07-31 05:33:32 and read 8026 times.

Quoting ILUVAA (Reply 43):
Why does everyone love bashing AA so much, I have flown for years with American and have enjoyed 95% of my flights. Everyone seems to never have a nice thing to say even if they try about AA and it is getting a very old. Just because they happen to be the largest and not bankrupt I guess that doesn't count?

I'll tell you why I'm going to bash AA - they took the fun and excitement out of flying - it's little better than taking a bus, at least on their domestic flights.

I took my first flight every on AA this past June, on a 767 between LAX and JFK. There were no free meals served on the flight. There was only a salad that you could buy for 5 bucks. I bought a salad and it was tasty, but that's not the point. It was not a meal.

AA doesn't have to serve meals on coast to coast flights, but it left a lot to be desired and I was really disappointed. Come on AA, I thought you were a full service airline. One way to a satisfied passenger is through their stomach. If you can't serve food to me on a 5 hour flight in coach, then why should I ever fly you on business, or international? I'm afraid I would be treated the same no-frills way.

To me, AA is no different than an LCC. It was my first and probably my last flight with them.

SparkingWave ~~~

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Ckfred
Posted 2006-07-31 05:57:23 and read 7868 times.

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 20):
Come on, it's not like plane food was ever any good, no matter how far up front you sit.

I beg to differ. AA used to have very good food in coach, as well as first. I once had a Ceaser salad in coach that was much better than the Ceaser salad at the Pump Room in Chicago. AA's pasta dishes were better than about 90% of the Italian restaurants I've been too. The only place that
had better German chocolate cake than is a little bakery in the Chicago suburbs. And I've yet to find a better fruit plate than I had in first on ORD-SAT.


Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 20):
Just eat something at the airport before you leave. It doesn't have to be McDonald's if you look around. There's a great steak house at CO's EWR terminal ("Gallagher's"). MIA has the "Top of the Port" restaurant. I'm sure there's some "Zagat Guide to Airport Dining" somewhere...

But it's ridiculous to have eat at an odd time, because a flight during normal meal times has no food service. I often take AA's 11am departure out of ORD for ATL. It gets into ATL at 2pm, which is 1pm CT. It's stupid to have to either eat 2 breakfasts before getting on a plane or, eat a very late lunch by the time I get out of the airport and to my final destination.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 22):
I do not miss the meals on AA flights, most of the meals were ok but some were uneatable because someone in the kitchen who thought that because they like pepper or some other spices, everyone else should like it to.

You sound like my wife. Because my wife doesn't like spicey food, friends of ours in New York took us out to a French restaurant, rather than one of Bobby Flay's places. She also gives me grief for putting hot sauce on steak.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 22):
I would rather spend the money and buy something that I like either off airport on at an airport shop. Now when I fly I carry a little foldable insulated cooler, I stop either at a Subway or similar type chain sub shop for a sandwich or buy one at an airport shop and carry it on the plane, small bistro sized coolers and bags are not considered one of your 2 carry on item allowance. I usually gat a bag of chips and a cookie to round out the meal and wait until the beverage service so I have something to drink with my meal. This way I get to eat what I want, not be told that “sorry we are out of your selection, this is all we have left”

The last time I was told, "We're out of....," was flying first on AA from BOS to ORD in the late 90s. They were out of chicken and only had filet mignon left. I managed to survive.

But seriously, carrying food is a pain. My wife travels for business and is working on her master's. Between a very heavy briefcase, a purse, and a coat, she doesn't have a free hand to carry food. What's worse is that her company has a limit of $35 a day for food.

There is a rumour that when DL contacted her employer to discuss renewing the contract for preferred carrier, the company demanded a larger discount or other improvements, because the lack of food service was running up the travel expense due to employees eating at airports.

Then there is the woderful experience of traveling with small children. My wife and I have to travel with so much stuff anyway, that we simply can't carry meals on board. Then there's the problem of trying to get a kid to eat before he's hungry. You can't make a 3-year old understand that he has to eat at 4pm, because the there won't be any food on the airplane at 5:30pm.

So, the meltdown due to hunger and the lack of anything more substantial than cookies and Goldfish takes place at 35,000 feet.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Apodino
Posted 2006-07-31 06:29:54 and read 7695 times.

Thinking outside the box here. If you are an airline, does it give a better impression on your passengers if you do BOB service, or if you simply charge $5 more for a ticket and give a meal service? Think about it for a second.

AA had great food in the day. I once had a BBQ chicken dinner from them not long before 9/11. It was good. They used to have a bistro service, where you picked up a bagged meal from a cooler right before entering the jetway. I believe HP and DL also had a similar service. Tasty meals.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Lredlefsen
Posted 2006-07-31 06:32:31 and read 7684 times.

Quoting ILUVAA (Reply 43):
Why does everyone love bashing AA so much, I have flown for years with American and have enjoyed 95% of my flights. Everyone seems to never have a nice thing to say even if they try about AA and it is getting a very old.

I agree -- my experience with AA (and, frankly, UA and CO) has been overwhelmingly good. NW is a different story -- I'll do just about anything I can to avoid flying NW. I haven't flown on DL or US for at least 10 years, so any data points I had are no longer valid. If I had to vote a legacy carrier off the island, it'd definitely be NW.

To Europe, I love BA and VS -- I've had bad experiences with LH and IB in the last 5 yrs, and continue to avoid them. VS and BA have set the bar very high (VS Upper/BA Club World are miles ahead of LH First) -- why take a chance (LH/IB) and probably be disappointed? Does it matter where you connect? LHR/LGW, FRA/MUC, MAD, CDG, ..., are pretty much equidistant from anywhere that matters, no?

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
As far as IFE (which seems to be such a high priority for many A.net folk) - the iPod and video iPod has changed all of this

Exactly! And if you don't want to watch a stamp-sized video on your iPod, you can watch a Post-It-Note-sized video on a portable DVD player that you can pick up for less than $200 just about anywhere. (I'm being quite serious about this, even though I'm sounding pretty sarcastic.)

Maybe the airlines need to get with the program and offer, say, a credit on the iTunes Music Store towards downloading a movie with a plane ticket, or maybe set up vending machines that rent out DVDs at the gate for $3 -- dump it into a receptacle at the arrival airport, or you buy it ($19.95). And if you're a Plutonium Executive Titanium member, and you "buy" the DVD because you forget to return it, you get a free rental next time around. Yadda, yadda, yadda -- this isn't all that hard, is it? (Or maybe some airline should hire me as "VP of Digital Passenger Strategy" -- I'm available, for the right price tag...)

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 46):
AA - they took the fun and excitement out of flying

Honestly, *excitement* is the last thing I want when I'm flying... I want predictability.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: ETStar
Posted 2006-07-31 06:53:22 and read 7546 times.

I swear that my next trip will include me packing very spicy and aromatic food that I will sit and enjoy in flight when flying a no-longer-serving-food airline. One word from an attendant and he/she will get the full wrath.

Edit for politcal correctness.

[Edited 2006-07-31 06:54:04]

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Lincoln
Posted 2006-07-31 07:21:26 and read 7401 times.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 14):
Does CO still offer meal service?



Oh heck yeah. Food in coach isn't great (simply because it's the same two or three entrees on every flight) but it's nothing to complain about; meal service up front is spectacular and usually out-classes my palet.

One of about six dozen reasons why if it's possible to fly CO between "City A" and "City B" I will -- even if it's not the most convenient or least expensive option.

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 49):
stamp-sized video on your iPod

Have you actually watched video on 5th generation iPod? While it's not my first choice, the screen size is adaquare and the image quality is spectacular -- yeah, the 42" broadcast-grade plasma in my living room looks a bit better, but if you're going put me on a night flight, I have no problem watching a few episodes of Law and Order on the thing to pass the time.

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 49):
Maybe the airlines need to get with the program and offer, say, a credit on the iTunes Music Store towards

Pssst. Not sure if you already know about this, but look over there---> http://www.continental.com/web/en-us/content/deals/offers/itunes.asp

(Ok, so the promotion expires on the 31st, still...)

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Azstagecoach
Posted 2006-07-31 07:38:06 and read 7327 times.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 50):
I swear that my next trip will include me packing very spicy and aromatic food that I will sit and enjoy in flight when flying a no-longer-serving-food airline.

this is sarcasm, right? The LAST thing I want is the person next to me busting out with the "spicy and aromatic food." Have pity on the rest of us! The beautiful thing about pretzels is they don't make a stink.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2006-07-31 08:18:56 and read 7116 times.

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 52):

this is sarcasm, right? The LAST thing I want is the person next to me busting out with the "spicy and aromatic food." Have pity on the rest of us! The beautiful thing about pretzels is they don't make a stink.

I bring good ole' fashion home cookin' on my flights....tasty delicious Pakistani/Indian cuisine... nothing very oily like curry or something (my family doesn't eat too much of curry anyway because of the oil)...but lots of kebabs and/or chicken with rice.. biggrin 

If I'm on the run, then I'll just settle for a subway sandwich...which works just fine.... checkmark 

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: AADC10
Posted 2006-07-31 08:23:43 and read 7094 times.

It does not have to be particularly spicy and aromatic. Leftover fish with garlic or stale chicken is usually quite pungent, particularly if I have been carrying it around in by bag for a couple of days. No point in leaving it at home to rot, when I can let it rot on the plane.

If the leftovers are not strong enough, there are cheeses that are especially strong at room temperature.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: TWAtwaTWA
Posted 2006-07-31 09:28:57 and read 6750 times.

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 46):
I'll tell you why I'm going to bash AA - they took the fun and excitement out of flying - it's little better than taking a bus, at least on their domestic flights.

If you seek onboard food, then why don't you bash oil futures and the cost of post-september 11th security? Because that is the real reason why most US airlines have had to adopt these cost cutting moves.

Come on, what do you love about flying- the magical beauty of the machines in the air, or the small bag of pretzels? Airlines on all continents have begun to downgrade food service, why are you focusing on AA, which is doing this to stay aloft?

Most people on this forum have already mentioned that they prefer to get their own food and bring aboard. Those people are enjoying their flight, and still find "fun and excitement" in flying.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2006-07-31 11:18:38 and read 6258 times.

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 38):
My assessment is based on (low end) 4 new seats per plane, 471 planes (Super 80s, most of the 757s), 70% load, $100 incremental revenue per seat, 4 flight legs per day of service, 250 operational days.

Wouldn't you need to assume that all these planes are currently operating at 100% load - otherwise AA will not be able to sell the four additional seats but will simply fly around four more empty seats ? Or am I missing something here ?

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: SK909
Posted 2006-07-31 11:37:26 and read 6176 times.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
does AA have a subfleet of ETOPS qualified 752s that it uses for its transatlantic and select latin american/transatantic services? Those aircraft will keep warm galleys?

Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be using the 757 for transatlantic flights. And those that are ETOPS qualified, will keep there warm galleys.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
most of the 757 (the 757ER that are flown on legs to Europe keep them all others will have them removed)

There are no 757ER, only 757 that are ETOPS qualified.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: N1120A
Posted 2006-07-31 11:55:29 and read 6080 times.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Thread starter):
the 757ER that are flown on legs

There is no such thing as a 757ER, unless it is internal AA

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
does AA have a subfleet of ETOPS qualified 752s that it uses for its transatlantic and select latin american/transatantic services?

Yes, and they are all maxed to 255K

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
As far as the 757 fleet is concerned AA has about 20 or so that are designated as 757ER

Again, only internally designated.

Quoting Dc10s4ever (Reply 9):
The other 757s dont have overwater equipment, thus would never fly Hawaii or Europe and have no need for ovens.

They could be retrofitted rather easily

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
They can always do cold food service if it comes to it - sandwiches, salads, as most CO flights do.

CO doesn't do the hot sandwiches/pizza any more?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Yes....they do. CO serves snacks, meals, etc in both F and Y at the appropriate times.

What is appropriate? About 75-80% of the people I know eat dinner outside what CO deems "appropriate".

Quoting Thering (Reply 28):
Heard that DL took of 24 cans of every flight and saved 250.000,00 dollars per year...

How Olive of them  Wink

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-31 12:14:50 and read 5983 times.

Quoting ILUVAA (Reply 43):
Why does everyone love bashing AA so much

Being critical or commenting on one aspect of an airline's business is not bashing, its analyzing. My goodness, AA is an airline, not a religion...I think that AA is a good carrier, but the policies with food service on board stinks, if they want to be considered a full service carrier and fly transcon routes, then serve a meal in all cabins for goodness sakes.

Quoting SK909 (Reply 57):



Yes, otherwise they wouldn't be using the 757 for transatlantic flights. And those that are ETOPS qualified, will keep there warm galleys.

Yes, I realize that.....my point was whether AA had a subfleet of ETOPS 757s, or if all 757s were ETOPS qualified. I learned above that about 20 AA 757s are used for longer range operations. Didnt AA just order like 100 sets of winglets....thus there will be 757s with winglets and without food out there.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 58):
CO doesn't do the hot sandwiches/pizza any more?

Not very often....depends on the duration of the flight, its mainly cold stuff on flights less than 3 hours in coach.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 58):

What is appropriate? About 75-80% of the people I know eat dinner outside what CO deems "appropriate".

If you and your friends eat dinner at 830 or 900 (like I do), then you are not having dinner on CO......but if you are on the more traditional time schedule, you should be just fine.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Skiflip1
Posted 2006-07-31 12:33:28 and read 5881 times.

I never understood people that flew for the food. I do understand that a flight of say, 4 hours or more should have something to eat. The ovens are being taken out because of the weight, and the using less fuel as a result. The ovens can easily be put back on at a later date. Now let's be honest, we all know the average passenger will book a flight that is even $5 cheaper. AA didn't file bankruptcy, so they have to come up with other ways of competing successfully with competitors with a cost advantage. I am a 18 year F/A with AA, and I prefer the long haul flights with meal services. I, too, miss the days of caviar in First Class. Most of us like to do a good service. But this current business environment is cut throat. I just came back from vacation, and I purchase tickets rather than non rev so I can enjoy my trip. I flew Continental out from FLL-SEA and United back. I thought the F/A's were terrific on both carriers, and told them as such. On AA's long haul trips we still serve dinner and breakfast in coach. Yes we charge for the drinks( you won't get charged from me, however, when you are smiling and cheerful, I want you to come back) So for the time being, we have to bring our own food. This industry is cyclical. We all know that. Kudos for the CO and United F/as for a great job. Come fly with me on AA ( usually MIA-GRU and EZE) and I will make you want to fly American again.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-31 12:44:47 and read 5830 times.

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
I never understood people that flew for the food. I do understand that a flight of say, 4 hours or more should have something to eat.

People dont fly for food, they go to restaurants for food....but its difficult to get to a restaurant if you are at 35000 feet. A pax is on an airplane for 3 or 4 hours, its dinner time, they are hungry, thats not difficult to understand. Also, the food service helps pass the time in flight. Airlines can afford multi million dollar IFE systems, but cant afford to offer a sandwich?

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
The ovens are being taken out because of the
weight, and the using less fuel as a result. The ovens can easily be put back on at a later date

No one seems to care about the weight of IFE systems, do they? And putting the ovens back in will cost millions and millions of dollars, along with lost revenue while the airplanes sit on the ground to be re-fitted.

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
and I prefer the long haul flights with meal services. I, too, miss the days of caviar in First Class.

So its OK to be hungry on a 4 hour flight if you are in F class or are flying interational, but its not reasonable to be hungry in you are sitting in Y class and are flying domestic? Come on....

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
On AA's long haul trips we still serve dinner and breakfast in coach

US transcon is not longhaul??

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
Yes we charge for the drinks( you won't get charged from me, however, when you are smiling and cheerful, I want you to come back)

I am sure that your supervisors will be thrilled to hear this piece of news...


-----

This is a mistake......what did it cost AA to go from standard configurations to MRTC to LRTC....here we go again. AA will be putting ovens back in most of the airplanes in the future (with the exception of the MD80s) due to competitive reasons.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Skiflip1
Posted 2006-07-31 14:15:56 and read 5365 times.

Dutchjet , my friend, you are completely missing my points. Millions to put the ovens back on, but how much in fuel are they saving? It isn't difficult to plan ahead and bring a snack or eat a meal before your flight. Yes, it does pass the time. My supervisor never questions my comping drinks, as in 18 years of service, I have never received a complaint letter. I do have a file thick with commendations. Comparing domestic flights to international flights is apples and oranges. As I said, I prefer to serve my passengers something. But, again, the current business environment requires these cuts. People prefer entertainment to food. Maybe one day I will be happy to serve you a meal on a flight, but you better be sure and eat your vegetables!  Wink

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: AAL0616
Posted 2006-07-31 14:26:56 and read 5287 times.

The rear cabin galley cooking equipment is obviously extra weight on all the MD80s. The 757 fleet can be segregated between types, which is better than leaving the weight on the entire 757 fleet. The ETOPS aircraft are already flown in distinct patterns for Hawaiian and Atlantic service. The entire 757 AAL RR equipped fleet will probably eventually have the winglets, although the current commitment will bring it up around half or more. We'll see. Don't think that the winglets will necessarily determine operational deployment in the long run. You will see winglets, yes, for efficiency for longer range international missions such as Brazil and Ireland but that does not preclude their use on shorter range segments. For example, last week I had winglet runs Miami-Boston, positioning aircraft for the Atlantic 757 trips; those domestic legs have also been flown from the west coast to Boston; I've also noticed the winglets on Orlando to DFW and Los Angeles segments.

The more interesting fleet efficiency question to me is the status of the galleys on the 737 fleet, which does see a mix of service necessity on the Miami and DFW to Central America and Caribbean segments. That would seem to be a harder scheduling nut to master than the 757 mix.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Tootallsd
Posted 2006-07-31 15:08:20 and read 5021 times.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 56):
Wouldn't you need to assume that all these planes are currently operating at 100% load - otherwise AA will not be able to sell the four additional seats but will simply fly around four more empty seats ? Or am I missing something here ?

Fair question. I travel AA quite a bit and most planes leave at or very near 100% full. What I did in my estimate is use load factors of 70% to 85% basically matching the load on the four new seats to the rest of the plane.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Jetstar
Posted 2006-07-31 15:32:45 and read 4883 times.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
The last time I was told, "We're out of....," was flying first on AA from BOS to ORD in the late 90s. They were out of chicken and only had filet mignon left. I managed to survive.

At least you were one of the lucky ones, the last time I was told they were out of my selections, I had to settle for a Mexican chicken, rice and bean dinner, on the spicy side. I left the entrée and ate every thing else on the tray, which did not amount to much.

Before they eliminated special meals I always ordered a low fat dinner, which was always chicken, at least I knew what I was getting for dinner.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
You sound like my wife. Because my wife doesn't like spicey food, friends of ours in New York took us out to a French restaurant, rather than one of Bobby Flay's places. She also gives me grief for putting hot sauce on steak.

I don’t like any spicy foods, including anything with pepper, that’s my preference. I have been out with some people who like their foods hot and spicy, that’s their preference. I could care less about how people like their foods prepared, just don’t force it on me. One time I went to a restaurant and the chef put pepper on everything, including the salad. I sent it all back to the kitchen and told the manager quite angrily that if I wanted pepper, I would use the pepper shaker on the table.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 47):
But seriously, carrying food is a pain. My wife travels for business and is working on her master's. Between a very heavy briefcase, a purse, and a coat, she doesn't have a free hand to carry food. What's worse is that her company has a limit of $35 a day for food.

If you or your wife do not want to carry food on board, that’s your prerogative, as for myself and my wife, we are very happy buying and carrying onboard food that we selected

On one trip last year on AA from LAX to JFK, the flight was delayed to bad weather at JFK and after holding for about an hour we had to divert to BAL for fuel. Because of this the pilots ran out of duty time and AA had to scrape up a relief crew. We finally landed at JFK over 8 hours late. We never pulled up to a gate in BAL, but sat on the ramp for the refueling and crew change.

Luckily we had bought large Subway subs on board with us and at least we had a decent dinner. This was a full flight and because of the delay the cabin crew gave out for free out all the wraps and snack boxes they had for sale so we also got to sample these. The turkey wrap was ok, but the snack boxes were full of nothing but junk food and high fat items. We finally landed at JFK at 2 in the morning and obviously there were no food concessions open in the terminal, so if it weren’t for our carry on dinners, we would have been starving when we got off.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: B757capt
Posted 2006-07-31 15:48:56 and read 4748 times.

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 3):

Thats excatly what i was going to say.

IF ship XXX goes on MX then only the ships with ovens can cover the trip or else you will have a ton of pissed off people.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Tod
Posted 2006-07-31 16:22:10 and read 4480 times.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 59):
No one seems to care about the weight of IFE systems, do they?

The airlines definately do, just ask the folks at Rockwell-Collins, Thales or Panasonic. Cost and weight are why you don't see planes such as the MD80 with things like AVOD.

Tod

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Jaysit
Posted 2006-07-31 16:31:40 and read 4397 times.

I'm waiting for pay toilets to be installed.

Four quarters gets you 4 minutes in the can.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2006-07-31 17:40:18 and read 3927 times.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 59):
US transcon is not longhaul??

Not in AA's terminology at least. After all, they like inventing names such as 752ER.
But honestly I would qualify it as a medium haul as a medium haul aircraft such as a 757 or 319 or 762 non-ER can fly it easily.
But where I agree with you, is that medium haul flights flown by legacy carriers should get hot meal service. However, I doubt this will happen in the near future as the $5 cheaper airfare is the only thing Y pax ask for...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 57):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 58):
What is appropriate? About 75-80% of the people I know eat dinner outside what CO deems "appropriate".
If you and your friends eat dinner at 830 or 900 (like I do), then you are not having dinner on CO......but if you are on the more traditional time schedule, you should be just fine.

I am not usually on a traditional north american dinner schedule (9-10 pm seems to be an average for me!), but my hunger cycles get 100% modified as soon as I start packing for a trip. And when on the plane, my notion of time suddenly dissapear (well, I mostly fly east-west and longhaul so maybe that's why!). So any complimentary food for me at any time on an airplane is welcome.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 45):
You can't make a 3-year old understand that he has to eat at 4pm, because the there won't be any food on the airplane at 5:30pm.

Which is why we should always have some food with us to be eaten whenever we need it. Our stomachs are like 3-year old kids right?


There is also the after-flight part, such as customs immigration, tight connections, luggage claims, find a taxi/bus ride to go to the hotel/to go home, etc... which are always somewhat stressful and always take more time that we would like to, so people need to be fed before what I think is the hardest part of the trip. And the only way for that is to get some food while in the air...

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Jonno
Posted 2006-07-31 17:51:55 and read 3895 times.

Um................. will there be space to install an extra seat or two? Or maybe a "pay as you go" personal space? So, instead of congregating outside the toilet, there might be an announcement along the lines of, "Ladies and gentlemen, we are now offering a personal space. For ten dollars you will receive ten minutes of standing time where our ovens in economy used to be. Please do not queue to pay."  banghead 

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2006-07-31 18:08:42 and read 3865 times.

Quoting Jonno (Reply 68):
Or maybe a "pay as you go" personal space? So, instead of congregating outside the toilet, there might be an announcement along the lines of, "Ladies and gentlemen, we are now offering a personal space. For ten dollars you will receive ten minutes of standing time where our ovens in economy used to be. Please do not queue to pay."

 checkmark 

Welcome to the world of the BYOB (bring your own bottle -to urinate in, of course-). Then, we will see more and more "unruly pax" deplaned and arrested for obscene behaviour...

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: Dutchjet
Posted 2006-07-31 21:46:03 and read 3676 times.

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
Comparing domestic flights to international flights is apples and oranges

And why is that? I, as a pax, do not accept that one standard of service is acceptable for domestic flights and another is appropriate for international flights. A flight from New York to London is only slightly longer than a flight from New York to Los Angeles.....why is a meal included on one and not the other? The US domestic airlines have somehow convinced the travelling public that if a flight is within the US, dont expect to eat or be served - how is that correct? Do US carriers only offer full services on international flights because they have to compete with non-US carriers?

Its nonsense......the more I think about this issue, the more I realize why I fly CO whenever possible to/from and within the US.

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
But, again, the current business environment requires these cuts.

I am not buying this aruguement....airlines have money for IFE systems, new terminals, new uniforms, etc, and the airlines are showing some profits even with the impossibily high fuel prices.......they certain can afford to offer a pax a sandwich on a 6 hour flight.

Quoting Skiflip1 (Reply 60):
Maybe one day I will be happy to serve you a meal on a flight, but you better be sure and eat your vegetables!

I would love it, you sound like a very very nice guy....and you are put up with my rant which is very cool indeed. My position is that AA is too good of an airline to lower itself to these standards concerning food service onboard. Remember the old expression.....penny wise, pound foolish.

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: UAPremierGuy
Posted 2006-08-01 00:47:29 and read 3496 times.

For the record, United, as re-iterated (sp?) during today's conference call, is doing the same thing on parts of its domestic fleet, including the 737s, A320s, A319s, and 757s, as well as Domestic 777 and 767s...  Sad

Topic: RE: AA To Remove Ovens From Most Aircraft
Username: DTWAGENT
Posted 2006-08-01 00:55:48 and read 3481 times.

Dutchjet: You are correct. The only reason they are offering any food at all on the international flights (over the Atlantic/Pacific and not Caribbean flights) is they are competeing with other no us carriers.

I have often wondered how can the Non-US carriers make money and still have full service in both classes, but here in the US it is not possible to do that. Go figure....

And their is only a few flights that include meals in coach on flight to HNL, OGG, KON. All the rest expect you to purchase your food. I say if I'm paying $800 plus for a ticket to Hawaii, I expect to get free food in coach class. UA and DL are the only ones that service food in both classes without charge. I can tell ya I will be flying them.

chuck


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