Any Additional info ?

US431....left main had some type of fire on landing......

it was flt 431 clt-mia a/c reg is N425US. clt crew working the flt. everyone ok.

Can the various threads about this issue be merged.

Can anyone confirm aircraft type? I don't have TV here at work. Thanks!

CNN just said its a 737, and apparently blew 2 tires on landing...Fire resulted in the wheelwell, and entered the cabin. CNN also says that all pax are safe.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/31/miami.plane/index.html

that's all they've got so far

The bird in question:

View Large View Medium

Photo © Mark Kopczak

Miami Herald coverage of the incident: Miami.com

Quoting KATL757 (Reply 8): Miami Herald coverage of the incident: Miami.com

Gee, I wonder why they didn't use the overwing exits during the evac  

go -400 go -400!!! I bet those snubbers have had enough LOL

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9): Gee, I wonder why they didn't use the overwing exits during the evac

From the looks of that wing, it would have been a pretty nice bubble bath...

Rubber ducky, you're the one...
You make my bathtime so much fun...

[Edited 2006-08-31 21:16:03]

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): go -400 go -400!!! I bet those snubbers have had enough LOL

I disagree with you. They are confortable to fly on. At least everyone was safe.

MCOflyer

Kudos to the crew for getting everyone off the aircraft safely.

-Tony

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 5): and entered the cabin

what did? The fire? CNN doesn't say that..... What's your source?

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 5): Fire resulted in the wheelwell, and entered the cabin

How was that possible.Somethings not adding up.
regds
MEL

I'm not seeing that in the CNN article either. Maybe they did a quickie edit when they got updated info. Here is the text from the Miami Herald, article link I posted before now requires you login:

Two tires blew out and one caught fire on US Airways seconds after landing at Miami International Airport Thursday afternoon.

All 113 passengers and five crew onboard Flight 431 from Charlotte made it safely off the 737-400 by sliding down chutes, said US Airways spokeswoman Valerie Wunder.

They were transported by three buses to Concource A, Miami-Dade airport officials said.

''We''ll make sure they're all OK and provide whatever they need to be on their way,'' said Ike Wetherill, the airport spokesman.

The plane's problem occurred as it landed at MIA's Runway 27, which is visible from State Road 836.

''The plane did not declare an emergency before landing,'' Wetherill said. ``Two thirds down the runway, the crew realized there was a fire in the area of the left main landing gear. A flash of fire was visible.''

Miami-Dade fire units and airport personnel doused the plane with fire retardant foam and quickly extinguished the blaze.

The flight had departed Charlotte at 11:37 a.m. and arrived in Miami at 1:37 p.m.

And another picture from the scene:

US/HP still have Boeings?  

From looking at the pic posted by KATL757, could the #1 engine be sitting on the ground? The truck is blocking the view. I hope not as this would be even more costly damage.

[Edited 2006-08-31 22:59:55]

Quoting Memphis (Reply 18): could the #1 engine be sitting on the ground?

Maybe. The report indicated that the tires blew. I would think though the blown tires shouldn't be enough to cause the engine to hit the ground.

If there was more extensive damage to the gear its possible.

But remember, 737s look like their engines will hit the ground even when they're operating normally.  

Quoting Memphis (Reply 18): From looking at the pic posted by KATL757, could the #1 engine be sitting on the ground?

I doubt it, since then the engines would strike the ground on most uneven landings, too.

I just think it looks very close because you can't see the bottom of the engine, and our eye wants to complete a round engine shape, but the cowl is not round...

Hey............the 400's are good birds, and I will defend them.

Quoting SABE (Reply 17): US/HP still have Boeings?

Yes B757's, 767, and 733/734 a/c.

MCOflyer

Use the snozzle!!


OK, maybe not for a fire in the wheel well . . .

The ETOPS a/c will be N2--. Can someone provide a link to the forum about new registrations.

MCOflyer

Courtesy: WFAA-TV

USAirways Jet Catches Fire In Miami

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...060831_wz_miajetfire.5399a0dc.html

Jet Fire Video - Courtesy: WSVN-TV via WFAA-TV

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/Vi...eoPlayer.php?vidId=84902&catId=104

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 5): CNN just said its a 737, and apparently blew 2 tires on landing...Fire resulted in the wheelwell, and entered the cabin.

Hmm...

The gear is in the extended position for landing, and thus out of the wheelwells. They blow the two main tires, and there's a fire inside the wheelwell? From what?

Sounds like whatever fire/sparks/smoke there was emanated from whatever was left of the tires along with the metallic wheels/brakes making contact with the concrete runway. Smoke (but not fire) may have entered the cabin since the ram air doors that feed the packs are right there on the fuselage just ahead of the main gear.

[Edited 2006-09-01 00:25:36]

Quoting Memphis (Reply 18): From looking at the pic posted by KATL757, could the #1 engine be sitting on the ground?

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 25): I doubt it, since then the engines would strike the ground on most uneven landings, too. I just think it looks very close because you can't see the bottom of the engine, and our eye wants to complete a round engine shape, but the cowl is not round...

Well, looking at the dihedral of the wing, the wing looks nearly level, not "bent up" like it should. So I would guess that the aircraft is sitting lower due to a lack of tires, but not low enough for the #1 engine to touch the ground.

I flew on that aircraft 3 weeks ago from ORD-PHL.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9): Gee, I wonder why they didn't use the overwing exits during the evac

You'd be suprised but there have been a fair number of incidents/accidents where nobodys used an overwing exit.

Having chatted with someone at work over that, we agreed its probably because they want to get off from the door they came in through, well maybe  

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 10): go -400 go -400!!! I bet those snubbers have had enough LOL

I used to work on the 734, ours were awful - but then again thats because they were not looked after - and were old. Still a great little plane to fly.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31): I doubt you could certify a jet where blown tires would result in an engine or wing strike without a gear collapse. It would be a really stupid design...

I agree, if tyres blew out on a t/o roll and the engine hit the deck .......

Glad to hear everyone made it off, and that once again the news choppers were not far behind - so glad we don't have them here  

Phil
FlyingColours

If you watch the WFAA video, you can see that the port nacelle is not touching the ground, though the (fairly knowledgeable) commentator remarks that there are questions as to whether or not the aircraft can be towed in its current condition.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 29): Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9): Gee, I wonder why they didn't use the overwing exits during the evac You'd be suprised but there have been a fair number of incidents/accidents where nobodys used an overwing exit. Having chatted with someone at work over that, we agreed its probably because they want to get off from the door they came in through, well maybe Wink

Well, I was joking when I first said that, because I think the crew probably knew that one of the main landing gear was on fire, so I would imagine the flight attendants would, for that reason, NOT allow the overwing exits to be used durring the evacuation.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 31): so I would imagine the flight attendants would, for that reason, NOT allow the overwing exits to be used durring the evacuation.

But the problem is, Overwing exits are self help exits, so unless its a pre planned ditching there wouldn't be a crewmember there. Passengers would be asked if they were happy to operate the exit if the need to evac arose and then left to it. Even now on the A320 we don't have any extra shout commands to say don't open that O/W exit.

However, we do tell passengers not to open the exit if there is any "Fire, Smoke or fuel" outside, so that could explain this one but not some of the others.

Phil
FlyingColours

I cant find the exact quote and im sure it was Ikramerica (dont bite my head off if i made a mistake) suggesting it might be a BAD RETREAD POLICY Do they actually do this and if they do surely not the steers.
Thanx Ken

I know it's o/t, but I can't resist...

Quoting KATL757 (Reply 16): US Airways spokeswoman Valerie Wunder

With a name like that, she really should have been a pilot instead of a mere mortal spokeswoman.   

ya i just read the article, and watched the video clip. US has had some problems with the landing gears. a few months back, a couple of theie E170 blew some tires. some bad luck for US

I arrived a while ago for an overnight layover and noticed this thread. perhaps the following may be of interest.

When we were taxiing out for departure at MIA at 1800, the US Airways 737 was parked over on the DHL ramp adjacent to Rwy 30 and lined up at about a 300 degree angle, or cross-ways with the parked DHL aircraft (but not blocking them; he was down from the yellow 727s). We only caught a passing glimpse but there were perhaps six to eight vehicles around the aircraft and it appeared it was upright or in a normal looking posture, on its wheels, but we were not in a position nor able to focus because we were busy.

Of more curious interest to me was that we were cleared for departure on Runway 30. There was an airport vehicle parked in the middle of Runway 27 with caution lights flashing, indicating the runway was down; further down 27, we could make out several vehicles apparently clearing debris or doing whatever they needed to do to investigate. In any event, we departed on Runway 30, a most unusual choice. Earlier, Runway 27 was of course open and we would most likely have been using it.

In addition, given the southerly or southwesterly winds following the passing of the faux-storm, we flew an unusual departure scheme that all company aircraft were using this afternoon to avoid the upper air winds associated with the storm for northeasterly flight plans, using the Hedley procedure to ORL, CRG and CHS rather than overwater to ILM. Although, Tuesday afternoon, we did hit some pretty good turbulence out of it inbound to MIA from the west on the Cypress Arrival.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 26): Smoke (but not fire) may have entered the cabin since the ram air doors that feed the packs are right there on the fuselage just ahead of the main gear

Actually, the air conditioning ram air ducts only supply air to cool the heat exchangers and don't supply any outside air into the cabin. To get smoke into the cabin it would have to enter an engine, get into the bleed air system and then through the air conditioning packs.

Cheers,

John

You'd think that with all the bird strike reports that I'd taken over the years that I'd remembered my systems a little better...

Mea culpa...

Wow 2 problems in one day for US Airways.

Quoting Luketenley (Reply 39): Wow 2 problems in one day for US Airways.

I hate to point out the obvious, but airlines (as in all airlines) have things like blown tires, air interruptions, and diversions every day. The reason that you're hearng about them now isn't because they're necessarily newsworthy, it's because there was a major aircraft disaster less than a week ago, and for 1-2 weeks after any such disaster, any little "molehill" becomes a "mountain" as far as media coverage is concerned. It's almost a way of keeping the original story going, via proxy.....

Great pic of the actual fire and evacuation.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/media/photo/2006-08/25153627.jpg

Feel free to imbed it into the thread, I can't remember how to do it.

GreatChecko

This also happened on the QF6 from SINSYD a few years ago...

But it was found that it was caused by the wrong "grease" being applied, subsequently showing flames coming from the wheels.

The crew did a fantastic job, Does anyone know how long it took the crew to evacuate the aircraft?

Cheers

How do the crew and passengers claim their personal belongings after an evacuation like this??

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 26): The gear is in the extended position for landing, and thus out of the wheelwells. They blow the two main tires, and there's a fire inside the wheelwell? From what? Sounds like whatever fire/sparks/smoke there was emanated from whatever was left of the tires along with the metallic wheels/brakes making contact with the concrete runway. Smoke (but not fire) may have entered the cabin since the ram air doors that feed the packs are right there on the fuselage just ahead of the main gear.

Pretty much what I picture happening.....and being misreported by a ratings driven media.

They blew a a tire or two on landing , which allows the wheel rim to make contact with the ground. Those are basicly a big hunk of magnesium so you get an awesome spark show, which lit off the tires and may have blown the other tire if it wasn't in the touchdown. The A/C pack inlets are down there so smoke from that tire fire would probably have entered the cabin.

As far as this being an "Accident, it is a very minor one if that.

Quoting TheCheese (Reply 30): whether or not the aircraft can be towed in its current condition.

They should be able to, once they replace the tires on the one side.

[Edited 2006-09-01 07:22:08]

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 31): Well, I was joking when I first said that, because I think the crew probably knew that one of the main landing gear was on fire, so I would imagine the flight attendants would, for that reason, NOT allow the overwing exits to be used durring the evacuation.

Well, the pax are supposed to check for smoke or fire.

The ones on the left likely saw lots of smoke.

On the right, the wing was tipped up. Without slides, how easy would it be to slide off the wings like on the card? Maybe they were instructed to use the 4 main doors?

Quoting N754PR (Reply 45):

In that pic you can see the engine not that close to the ground at all. No truck in the way so no optical illusion or mind tricks showing something that isn't really happening.

hmmm, I've fueled that aircraft in the past.. too bad

-Jeff

Glad all passengers are safe and it didn't result in any deaths.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 12): I disagree with you. They are confortable to fly on. At least everyone was safe

- I fly this bird as F/O about 5 times a day 6 days a week, i was talking about the snubbers in the nosegear that tend to heat up and cause smoke sometimes, although there is no detection up front...


for starters, there is no fire warning system connected to the nose gear....also for the wheel well fire to have sprung into the cabin means it went through the fire bottles, the stanby hydro pump and both hydraulic reservoirs and also through the aileron roll mixer, which means devastating things should have happened, im pretty sure that the fire didn't spread into the cabin, maybe the heat if it was that bad not the fire itself...

the boeing procedure for wheel well fire for those hungry :

QRH 14.12 WHEEL WELL FIRE
condition: A fire is detected in the main wheel well
Observe extend limit speed (270/,82M)

LANDING GEAR LEVER ..........................DOWN
Note : Do not use FMC fuel predictions with landing gear extended
IF the landing gear must be retracted for airplane performance, leave the landing gear extended for 20 minutes after the WHEEL WELL fire warning light has extinguished.

LANDING GEAR LEVER (if required)
(235 Kts maximum)..............................UP & OFF

Plan to land at the nearest suitable airport

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 46): On the right, the wing was tipped up. Without slides, how easy would it be to slide off the wings like on the card?

Not sure if this helps, but the distance from the ground to the floor is 5 feet when the gears are retracted, and 8 feet 5 inches when the gears are extended, according to the Boeing ARFF manual. With the flaps down, it should still be manageable to slide down the wing.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 46): Well, the pax are supposed to check for smoke or fire.

I have a feeling that the cabin crew, rather than the passengers, were involved in deciding which exits were to be used. A reason why window shades should be kept up during critical phases of flight.  

Horray for everyone being safe! Take a look at this photo of a baby being evacuated!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...0/34de7056775f4037bcbe81846e4ea42a

Quoting Ferret (Reply 19): But remember, 737s look like their engines will hit the ground even when they're operating normally

Dont disregard the Oleo Strut in Full extend position which is compressed on Ground to a height of approx 4".
regds
MEL

With regard to the picture in reply 45, I thought in the case of emergency evacuation ALL personal belongings must be left behind?

Quoting Cumulus (Reply 52): I thought in the case of emergency evacuation ALL personal belongings must be left behind?

That's suppose to be the case *cough cough* but it never happens that way. People will inevitably endanger their own-- as well as other passengers/crew's-- lives to stop and get their belongings.

Some carriers have an "abandon luggage" procedure, where the cabin crew at the doors are instructed to remove all baggage before letting the person jump. This may have mixed results because:
1. Some carriers suggest throwing the bags into the galley or into the area close to the cockpit. This can hamper evacuation as it obstructs the pathway.
2. Some carriers suggest throwing the bags OUT of the aircraft, so passengers will go after it. However, this can injure evacuating passengers...
3. As it turns out, it may be faster once a person has their bag to let them jump instead of trying to wrestle it away from them, since some passengers are extremely protective of their belongings. A struggle to remove the luggage can waste precious seconds.

Regardless, the fact remains, "LEAVE EVERYTHING BEHIND" is an important safety message. (ohh but don't leave your children, life jacket [if needed] or wife)

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 53): Regardless, the fact remains, "LEAVE EVERYTHING BEHIND" is an important safety message

"undo your seatbelts, come this way, leave everything behind, stay calm" is just one of our evac commands.

As far as the luggage goes if they bring it to the door let them take it down the slide, its not worth wasting valuable seconds wrestling it from them, and as you said - where do we throw them?

There have been many cases of evacuations where people have suddenly decided to grab their belongings.

Some good pictures there.

Phil
FlyingColours