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Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Australia1
Posted 2006-11-03 12:26:38 and read 7158 times.

Will DJ pick up cancelled EK A340-600's so they can start services Australia/USA sooner rather than later & if so, where would they fly to & from, with this aircraft having far superior range to 744's (I think)

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Ap305
Posted 2006-11-03 12:40:13 and read 7119 times.

If they do this it will also help them pick up a lot of cargo revenue on the transpacific routes.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: MEA-707
Posted 2006-11-03 13:15:33 and read 7012 times.

Airbus didn't start to build the A-340-600s meant for EK yet, so they will rather build some A-330s on the alloted production slots instead of selling A-340s at a loss.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Trex8
Posted 2006-11-03 13:23:43 and read 6991 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
Airbus didn't start to build the A-340-600s meant for EK yet, so they will rather build some A-330s on the alloted production slots instead of selling A-340s at a loss.

these A346s were due for delivery starting in 07, are you saying Airbus stopped production on long lead items a while ago even before EK "cancelled" the order??

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: StealthZ
Posted 2006-11-03 13:43:37 and read 6915 times.

Quoting Ap305 (Reply 1):
If they do this it will also help them pick up a lot of cargo revenue on the transpacific routes.

And you can be sure that the freight company that is a major shareholder in DJ has considered this quite carefully!

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: MEA-707
Posted 2006-11-03 13:44:15 and read 6915 times.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 3):
these A346s were due for delivery starting in 07, are you saying Airbus stopped production on long lead items a while ago even before EK "cancelled" the order??

I meant to say final production hasn't started yet. The order was cancelled in time, for sure the first 346 for Emirates wasn't allocated for early 2007 as the production schedule of the next 12 months didn't contain any Emirates A-340s in the first place.
Most items like cockpits, interiors, wings, can be used for other 330/340 subtypes as well.
No doubt the first A-340-600 specific items were started being produced all around, like the RR Trent 556 engines or extra fuselage chunks (compared to an A-330) but they no doubt can be kept in stock by the manufacturer or used on other frames. Maybe 1 or 2 aircraft parts sets have been started to be produced but they can be allocated to the few frames Lufthansa, Thai and Virgin will get.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Manni
Posted 2006-11-03 14:26:38 and read 6766 times.

Quoting Australia1 (Thread starter):
Will DJ pick up cancelled EK A340-600's

Apparently, eventough there might be conflicting reports (where there's smoke there's fire) these 'cancelled' aircraft have been sold by Emirates to a Dubai based leasing company.

I wonder who'll take them. Etihad or an other Gulf based carrier perhaps?

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 3):
these A346s were due for delivery starting in 07, are you saying Airbus stopped production on long lead items a while ago even before EK "cancelled" the order??

See above. They are likely to be produced.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Scbriml
Posted 2006-11-03 15:41:37 and read 6576 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
Apparently, eventough there might be conflicting reports (where there's smoke there's fire) these 'cancelled' aircraft have been sold by Emirates to a Dubai based leasing company.

I believe Tim Clark did say that they had been picked up by another customer.

NAV will be disappointed! rotfl 

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2006-11-03 17:39:00 and read 6369 times.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
Most items like cockpits, interiors, wings, can be used for other 330/340 subtypes as well.

The A345/6 wing is not used by any other of the 330/340 subtypes.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: MotorHussy
Posted 2006-11-04 00:38:46 and read 6083 times.

A346 would be perfect for a launch from the Virgin Blue hub to the the Virgin America one - BNE to SFO.

MH

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Antares
Posted 2006-11-04 00:42:20 and read 6069 times.

It is plausible, but that almost guarantees that is wrong, since nothing ever works out the way most of expect or hope it will.

Antares

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Boeing767-300
Posted 2006-11-04 04:40:42 and read 5874 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
Apparently, eventough there might be conflicting reports (where there's smoke there's fire) these 'cancelled' aircraft have been sold by Emirates to a Dubai based leasing company.

If the above is true Manni then I believe Airbus are going to pay VERY DEARLY for insisting on the 346.

Airbus will have won this 'little battle' but will lose the war. Clark and EK must be "pissed' with what considering the current 'circus' at A with A380 fiasco Leahey and Co can only be viewed as 'arrogant' in the extreme.

Expect 748I and 787 and substancial A380 cancellations as a result of all this.

I believe a lot of EKs vented anger is as much as Airbuses refusal to drop the A346 as much as its the A380 debacle... time will tell  twocents 

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Manni
Posted 2006-11-04 05:16:25 and read 5820 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
If the above is true Manni then I believe Airbus are going to pay VERY DEARLY for insisting on the 346.

IIRC the information I posted was posted by a member who has been far more often right than wrong. So the above is very likely to be true.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
Clark and EK must be "pissed'

While Clark has reason to be pissed concerning the late delivery of the A380, it should be viewed independent from the A346 order. Airbus has her obligations to fullfil towards EK, and if they can't, penaltys are on order. Like wise EK has her obligations to fullfil towards Airbus, and if they are contractual obliged to take on the A346s due to the late cancellations, or wathever other reason written down in the contract, so it will be.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
Leahey and Co can only be viewed as 'arrogant' in the extreme.

No it's not. You do not allow a US$4 or US$2 billion to be cancelled as a compensation for the late delivery of A380s in a deal worth US$13 billion. Other airlines have taken on average about US$10 million in compensation for each delayed aircraft. If every one of the 43 A380s were to be delivered with a delay, around US$400 million would be more than sufficient as compensation. That's a fraction of what the A346 order is worth.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
Expect 748I

I keep reading this, I'm not holding my breath. Altough I'd be pleased to see a 748i order. Afterall, it's a good looking aircraft.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
substancial A380 cancellations

Again, I keep reading this. Those that were suspected to cancel have firmed up orders or added additional commitments. Only VS has deffered the delivery. Enough for the nay sayers (not pointing at you) to keep up the hope for a cancellation.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
I believe a lot of EKs vented anger is as much as Airbuses refusal to drop the A346 as much as its the A380 debacle

Perhaps your right. But EK should take responsibility of their actions, Airbus can only bend that deep. Once that point is reached it's time to show the money or be shown the door. And that would cost EK dearly.

With every additional A380 order EK significant order of 43 aircraft is getting less significant. At one point EK held nearly 50% of the order book, if SQ firms up the additional 9 they'll be down to less than 25%, if they dont, they'll be just over 25%. I believe that any cancelled A380 order will be snapped up, as quick as VS' deffered A380 orders. EK is losing negotation power very quickly.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Boeing767-300
Posted 2006-11-04 05:47:05 and read 5777 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 12):
Perhaps your right. But EK should take responsibility of their actions, Airbus can only bend that deep. Once that point is reached it's time to show the money or be shown the door. And that would cost EK dearly

The other issue thats needs to be factored into the A346 equation is performance (or lack thereof)

Remember when Airbus first ordered the A346 they were expected/ known to be better performers than 773ER to which there were many doubts as to whether or could handle the payload in hot and high conditions.

As already well discussed on this forum the A346 fell well short of promised projections and 77W exceeded projections and their roles were reversed and the sales of the respective aircraft reflect this. A346 died and 77W took off.

The fact EK are being 'forced' to take an under performing or inferior product if you like whilst being such a huge Airbus customer must really 'grate' EK

The customer is ALWAYS RIGHT and Airbus are on dangerous ground and the outcome of all this will being interesting... time will tell

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Manni
Posted 2006-11-04 06:49:57 and read 5690 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 13):
The other issue thats needs to be factored into the A346 equation is performance

I dont think the A346 is under performing compared as what was promised at the time the contract was signed. The 773ER however, performed better than expected, this together with the high fuel prices (as compared to when EK signed for the aircraft) made the A346 less competetive.

I could buy a new VW today, before I take delivery of that car, Holden might come up with a car much better to my liking. This, however, does not give me the right to cancel my VW order (without a heavy penalty) and order the Holden. Nothing stops me however from buying the Holden on top of the VW.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 13):
The customer is ALWAYS RIGHT

I strongly disagree. Both the customer and the manufacturer (service provider or wathever) have their responsabilitys.

As we say in Belgium, "De klant is koning maar de ik ben de Keizer". "Customer is King but I'm the Emperor".

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 13):
dangerous ground

Publically trash talking Airbus, as EK has been doing lately, might cost EK a lot of money. It's about time Airbus stops being bullied by EK, makes EK pay for what they've signed and tells them to play it by the rules. Who needs enemies when you've such a customer...

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Monteycarlos
Posted 2006-11-04 09:59:22 and read 5250 times.

DJ has been long linked with 777-300's... I don't suspect they will change this purely due to A340 availability.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Sabenapilot
Posted 2006-11-04 10:29:01 and read 5057 times.

Just to point out the A346 is doing EXACTLY what EK has signed for: not more indeed, but also not less like some here have repeatedly said.

Until oil prices rose to 80$ a barrel, the fact the 777-3ER was more (fuel) economical was COMPLETELY offset by the lower acquisition costs of the frame combined with the savings from mixed type operation with other Airbus types, reason for which the A346 had no problems selling, especially not Airbus operators.

Looking out at the delivery stations here on the apron in TLS and seeing the tails of several A346s right in front of me, EK is the only airline in the world which thinks manufacturers should guarantee the economical analysis made at the time of purchase is valid right up to the moment of delivery (and beyond)... Sorry but that isn't in the contract.

Although EK has given in on this occasion and agreed to divert their order to a next-door leasing firm of theirs, they haven't changed opinion, so I can already imagine the scenario with their 777s still on order in a few years....

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: ZKNBX
Posted 2006-11-04 10:50:22 and read 4922 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
The customer is ALWAYS RIGHT

I strongly disagree. Both the customer and the manufacturer (service provider or wathever) have their responsabilitys

EXACTLY... and EK - as reported in the media - are sounding like they're getting a bit too brash and big for their boots...

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: ComeAndGo
Posted 2006-11-04 12:01:27 and read 4521 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
The 773ER however, performed better than expected, this together with the high fuel prices (as compared to when EK signed for the aircraft) made the A346 less competetive.

At Emirates the 773ER does not compete with the A346. The A346 was meant for US West coast operations. Clark said repeatedly he wanted 4 engined planes for US West coast operation. The A346s will be replaced by 748i. The 748i doesn't compete with the A388. Emirates intends to use the A388s on high density routes, the 773s on high density mostly Asian routes, and the 748i (ex A346) for US West Coast operations.

I don't see the 748i replacing A388 no matter how pissed Emirates is.
I also don't see the 772LR replacing the A345.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 16):
Just to point out the A346 is doing EXACTLY what EK has signed for: not more indeed, but also not less like some here have repeatedly said.

Emirates expected the range of the A345 on the A346. Airbus didn't deliver. Emirates believed it could persuade Airbus to increase range. It didn't work.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Monteycarlos
Posted 2006-11-04 12:42:59 and read 4337 times.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 18):
Emirates expected the range of the A345 on the A346. Airbus didn't deliver.

A bit hard given the A346 came first. Do you mean the A346E? I don't think its a case of Airbus not delivering, but more EK expecting what Airbus wouldn't give.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: ComeAndGo
Posted 2006-11-04 13:07:37 and read 4300 times.

You're right, the A346E.

The A346E was specifically developed for Thai. They wanted the plane to fly few hundred extra miles. Then Emirates came on board hoping they could push Airbus into increasing the range of the A346E to that of the A345. Airbus always refused (before EK's order and afterwards), but Emirates ordered the plane anyway.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Monteycarlos
Posted 2006-11-04 13:12:12 and read 4293 times.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 20):
but Emirates ordered the plane anyway.

And then the 748i came along? And so I guess the conundrum now is that EK want the initial range, but Boeing think customers as a whole want the additional capacity?

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: 2wingtips
Posted 2006-11-04 13:28:01 and read 4254 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 6):
Apparently, eventough there might be conflicting reports (where there's smoke there's fire) these 'cancelled' aircraft have been sold by Emirates to a Dubai based leasing company.

And converted from 346s to 330s? I have heard this from several sources but I can't validate one way or another.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Boeing767-300
Posted 2006-11-04 14:37:10 and read 4161 times.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 16):
Until oil prices rose to 80$ a barrel, the fact the 777-3ER was more (fuel) economical was COMPLETELY offset by the lower acquisition costs of the frame combined with the savings from mixed type operation with other Airbus types, reason for which the A346 had no problems selling, especially not Airbus operators

I find this quote or excuse about oil getting more expensive quite pathetic.

You design your airframe/engine to use as little fuel as possible...period.

Dou you see what you are saying!!! The A346 is less efficient but cheap and the 777 is more efficient but more expensive to aquire.

Now lets see we have a European airframe/engine(RR Trent 500) less efficient cheap and fuel thirsty versus an American airframe/engine GE 90-115B more efficient but more expensive.

Kinda sounds like the Chevrolet and the BMW are the wrong way around. Who would have believed the Europeans have been completely out-engineered....amazing.

As I said the price of oil is a poor excuse

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 16):
Looking out at the delivery stations here on the apron in TLS and seeing the tails of several A346s right in front of me, EK is the only airline in the world which thinks manufacturers should guarantee the economical analysis made at the time of purchase is valid right up to the moment of delivery

Wrong... Airlines make promises about performance of aircraft under development and Leahey is very good at it the problem is the engineering department can't deliver. I believe ANZ were receiving penalties from RR on 744 fuel burn because the early ones did not meet promised fuel burn. Whether this is why ANZ switched to GE for later 744s I don't know.

One would imagine that QF and SQ have Airbus locked down on performance contracts with options on A380 (both performance and delivery schedule) they could technically make plenty on penalties as much as operating them then again the price they got them for would negate most of the above.

Yes EK has made a lot of noise about Airbus. Not a lot has been said about 787 but you would think A350 will be looked at seriously to get Boeings pencil sharpened on 787-10. Why else would they rubbish Airbus so publically.

No one really knows what the contracts for A380 state with regard to late (2years) delivery. They do hold a large percentage of A380 orders. One wonders whether the A380 will deliver as EK hoped or maybe they realise now they have too many on order something along the lines of the Boeing philosophy was more appropriate for their future namely 777/787/A350 point to point rather than hubs.

This is how I see the EK saga but who knows time will tell... scratchchin 

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2006-11-04 15:32:47 and read 4091 times.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 18):
The A346 was meant for US West coast operations. Clark said repeatedly he wanted 4 engined planes for US West coast operation.

I've never seen Mr. Clark quoted as saying that US West Coast operations required a four engine airplane. Can you provide a source?

With regard to the equipment EK uses on West Coast operations, let's see what happens when they initiate these flights.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Manni
Posted 2006-11-04 17:21:49 and read 4007 times.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 22):
And converted from 346s to 330s?

It's the first I hear about it, that obviously doesn't exclude that what you've written might indeed have happened. However, the 2 A346s that were to be delivered trough ILFC to EK appear to have been converted to A330s.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Sabenapilot
Posted 2006-11-04 19:42:33 and read 3979 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
You design your airframe/engine to use as little fuel as possible...period.

Do you always think in simple slogans like that?

Although fuel consumption is an important factor in designing an aircraft, the aim of a new design is NOT to achieve the lowest possible fuel burn, but to get the absolute lowest possible CASM.
CASM is a much more complex parameter which also includes other elements like acquisition costs and as so often with complex parameters, the individual constituting elements not only influence the end parameter, they also influence each other (sometimes in exactly the opposite way).
At some point any further reduction in fuel burn can only be achieved by a massive increase in research and thus acquisition cost of the plane. That's why all manufacturers will work with an estimated fuel price over the life time of a new product so as to help them decide just how far they can go in investing in more fuel efficiency, otherwise the most fuel efficient plane becomes so extremely costly, it doesn't find any takers.

The 787 too could be made more fuel efficient if Boeing would invest even more into research on just how thin and thus light they could make the composite fuselage, yet they've decided to simply make it strong enough, meaning they deliberately will NOT optimize the fuel consumption and rather limit their research costs. Most certainly Boeing has made their decision based on a carefully made calculation in which they've used a certain estimated fuel cost over the next 2 decades or so...

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
Manufacturers make promises about performance of aircraft under development.

As I've said, the A340-600 meets all the contractual performance guarantees,
but no manufacturer will ever guarantee the operating cost of meeting those performances! The performances of the A340-600 haven't chanced, but the cost of operating the plane have...

Amazing you can't distinguish between these two, nor understand the basic concept of CASM and its importance over fuel consumption.... It really is essential if you want to comment on a design like you repeatedly and abundantly do.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Aerosol
Posted 2006-11-04 20:00:24 and read 3947 times.

Though I have nothing to say about DJ I will share my thoughts about the 346. It hit the market at the wrong time:
1. 2 Engined jets prove to be save. Even diehard 4 Engine longhaul flyers like CX will use the 773ER.
2. Lufthansa is publicly stating that it evaluates the 773ER.
3. Emirates does not want them even though AIrbus thought about compensating higher operating costs through cahsback.
4. TAM decided for the 773ER though the plane is a different philosophy than the rest of their fleet.
5. The plane has a shit history (PRwise not to good with CX complaining about a plane that was too heavy).
6. A one engine choice with RR was not a good decision (scrubbing, fuel burn)
7. The Oil Market will stay volatile.

My thoughts - they are just an opinion!

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2006-11-04 21:03:49 and read 3883 times.

In the spirit of Virgin Atlantic stepping aside to allow Singapore to take earlier delivery of A380's, as many on the froum have speculated, perhaps Emirates deferral of the A346 will allow Air Canada and Aerolineas Argentinas to take earlier delivery of the A346's they have on order.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Leskova
Posted 2006-11-04 22:48:55 and read 3785 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 28):
perhaps Emirates deferral of the A346 will allow Air Canada and Aerolineas Argentinas to take earlier delivery of the A346's they have on order.

I somewhat doubt that AC will see any further widebody deliveries from TLS, given that they're replacing their Airbus widebodies with Boeings...

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: LTU932
Posted 2006-11-05 00:24:12 and read 3684 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 28):
perhaps Emirates deferral of the A346 will allow Air Canada and Aerolineas Argentinas to take earlier delivery of the A346's they have on order.

AFAIK, the AC A346 order is cancelled, or am I wrong with that? In any case, AC will not take delivery of them, as Milton's plans are for AC to have eventually an all Boeing widebody fleet.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: ComeAndGo
Posted 2006-11-05 00:47:13 and read 3651 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
One wonders whether the A380 will deliver as EK hoped or maybe they realise now they have too many on order something along the lines of the Boeing philosophy was more appropriate for their future namely 777/787/A350 point to point rather than hubs.

I noticed over the years that Boeing's philosophy is totally wrong. They make good products but their forecasts are useless.

EK flies 773 with 434 seats on high density routes now. It doesn't look like their interested in point to point traffic. They'll use the A388 to fly as many passengers as only possible. After-all the idea behind Emirates is to get people to travel to Dubai. 30 million travelers a year. Dubai is in the middle of the desert where temperatures are beyond hot.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Trex8
Posted 2006-11-05 00:55:55 and read 3635 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
I find this quote or excuse about oil getting more expensive quite pathetic.

You design your airframe/engine to use as little fuel as possible...period.

when fuel was maybe 20% of your operating costs and you saved 5% of operating costs or more by having common crew qualifications, one airframe which used 5% more fuel than another may not have cost you much more to run, but when fuel now accounts for 30% or more of your operating costs, that 5% in crew savings and the higher fuel burn makes the case for the competition much more compelling.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Magyarorszag
Posted 2006-11-05 00:58:57 and read 3638 times.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 30):
AFAIK, the AC A346 order is cancelled, or am I wrong with that? In any case, AC will not take delivery of them

They still appear as on order on Airbus list, but as you said, AC won't take them. I assume that the order will be finally. The three intended slots for AC in the production have been reallocated to other A340-642 operators (LH / SA / VS).

Cheers.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: SunriseValley
Posted 2006-11-05 01:05:46 and read 3625 times.

Just looking at the comparative operating abilities of the A340-600 and the 777-300ER
One of Widebody’s tables shows a hypothetical 6000nm mission. See http://theaviationspecialist.com/350-550_mission_table.gif
The 300ER has a payload advantage of about 5650lb with a fuel burn of more than 5% less. It is not too hard to figure fairly closely the comparative fuel costs of the two types from the data in the table.
A search of the web gives the price of fuel at about $US1.77 a USG right now. If you extrapolate this at a daily utilisation of 15 hours per day over 10 years the difference in fuel cost between the two types is very significant.
It would be my view that Toll could generate premium freight revenue probably in excess of economy class passenger rates per pound/kilo. Thus they could chase yield by setting up the type at about 280 to 300 passengers. Consolidators are quoting typically about $US1200 to carry a 205lb of passenger and baggage round trip LAX-SYD. That works out at about $US3.00 per pound one way.. Seems to me Express airfreight is in the order of $50.00 per a one pound parcel. Quite a spread!

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: EbbUK
Posted 2006-11-05 01:15:01 and read 3604 times.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 11):
I believe a lot of EKs vented anger is as much as Airbuses refusal to drop the A346 as much as its the A380 debacle... time will tell   

Let them vent all they want, they bought the plane, signed the contract, now they want out for free. Airbus has a reputation for being a soft touch when it comes to doing deals (quite unfounded of course). But even that isn't gong to happen. Wake up!

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
As I said the price of oil is a poor excuse

It's the reality, as Sabena has explained.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 16):
Looking out at the delivery stations here on the apron in TLS and seeing the tails of several A346s right in front of me, EK is the only airline in the world which thinks manufacturers should guarantee the economical analysis made at the time of purchase is valid right up to the moment of delivery (and beyond)... Sorry but that isn't in the contract.

That picture of tails on the apron that you describe is just lovely. The facts you write about EK are pure common sense.

A pleasure to read.

Quoting Boeing767-300 (Reply 23):
Not a lot has been said about 787 but you would think A350 will be looked at seriously to get Boeings pencil sharpened on 787-10. Why else would they rubbish Airbus so publically.

If there is one sure way to keep Boeings pencils frimly in the desk draw, it's to rubbish Airbus in public. Smart

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Springbok747
Posted 2006-11-05 01:27:25 and read 3557 times.

How will DJ operate these aircraft...as a low-cost airline? I can't imagine sitting there for 14+ hours on a flight to the US..without any food or water...unless of course you have to spend exaggerated $$$ to buy them.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Antares
Posted 2006-11-05 02:16:39 and read 3516 times.

Springbok747,

Fortunately it will not be like United.

Those of us who have followed the local scene would know that it will be a full service economy and luxury business class offering, which has been consistently outlined as the objective in recent years.

But it is a low cost operation, as in low cost, not mean as cat shit.

If you fly DJ between Aussie cities you get fractionally more legroom than on a Qantas 737, and a lot more than a JQ A320, especially in the Suit Zone seats which are roomier rows for pricier booking class of Y fares.

And I think Jetstar International will be OK in the initial A330-200s because they are the ones Qantas was using mainly for transcontinental, with quite good seat pitch in economy and a pretty ordinary standard business class up front which stays the same but becomes its premium economy offering.

Antares

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Walter747
Posted 2006-11-05 04:00:57 and read 3415 times.

no US will get them  smirk 

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2006-11-05 04:51:51 and read 3365 times.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 30):
AFAIK, the AC A346 order is cancelled, or am I wrong with that? In any case, AC will not take delivery of them, as Milton's plans are for AC to have eventually an all Boeing widebody fleet.

Then the question is why AC can drop firm orders for the A346 but EK appears to be unable to do the same according to many forum members.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Trex8
Posted 2006-11-05 05:40:46 and read 3321 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 39):
Then the question is why AC can drop firm orders for the A346 but EK appears to be unable to do the same according to many forum members.

they have better lawyers in Canada Big grin

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: N328KF
Posted 2006-11-05 10:32:03 and read 3184 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 39):
Then the question is why AC can drop firm orders for the A346 but EK appears to be unable to do the same according to many forum members.

AC's bankruptcy court got them this deal.

Topic: Will DJ Pick Up Cancel EK A340-600s
Username: Australia1
Posted 2006-11-05 11:52:42 and read 3126 times.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 36):
How will DJ operate these aircraft...as a low-cost airline? I can't imagine sitting there for 14+ hours on a flight to the US..without any food or water...unless of course you have to spend exaggerated $$$ to buy them.

DJ is no longer an LCC, more like a defacto Ansett these days. JQ (Junkstar) has become the one & only LCC in Australia !!!

Topic: RE: DJ To Pick Up Canc EK A340-600's For USA Services?
Username: RJ111
Posted 2006-11-05 13:51:03 and read 3039 times.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 18):
Emirates expected the range of the A345 on the A346. Airbus didn't deliver. Emirates believed it could persuade Airbus to increase range. It didn't work.

EK never expected the A346 to have the same range as the A345.

"Now, after some mixing and matching the requirement has been resolved with $19 billion orders for 21 more A380s, eighteen 310-seat A340-600s and two longer-range 260-passenger A340-500s."

http://www.ainonline.com/publication...paris/paris_03/pd2emiratespg2.html

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 20):
The A346E was specifically developed for Thai. They wanted the plane to fly few hundred extra miles. Then Emirates came on board hoping they could push Airbus into increasing the range of the A346E to that of the A345. Airbus always refused (before EK's order and afterwards), but Emirates ordered the plane anyway.

The A346E was a hypothisised version using Trent 1700s and weight saving techniques from the previous A350, conceived long after EK ordered the A346. I think you may be getting confused with the A346HGW.

[Edited 2006-11-05 13:52:37]


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