http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,55875,00.html

Does the UA 926/927 sound familiar? They were the flight numbers of the discontinued SFO-CDG flights.

UA926 San Francisco- Frankfurt 6:55 p.m. 3:00 p.m. (next day)
UA927 Frankfurt-San Francisco 5:25 p.m. 7:59 p.m.(same day)

That FRA-SFO flight is pretty late in the day. That is a ridiculously late arrival to SFO. There are no connections beyond SFO with the exception to SYD available. What is the 777 going to do that late at night at SFO?

Quoting Legacyins (Thread starter): They were the flight numbers of the discontinued SFO-CDG flights.

I may be remembering them wrong, but I think the flight numbers of SFO-CDG were 960/961.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): There are no connections beyond SFO with the exception to SYD available. What is the 777 going to do that late at night at SFO?

Anyone going to SYD would most likely go through Asia. I think they are targeting all the connections to this flight in FRA, as well as connections to anywhere in the west coast (LAX, SAN, SNA, SEA, PDX, MRY, SBA, etc.)

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): What is the 777 going to do that late at night at SFO?

Considering SFO is UA's maintenance base it might go in for routine maintenance.

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 2): I may be remembering them wrong, but I think the flight numbers of SFO-CDG were 960/961.

You are correct. I knew it began with a "9".  

UA 926/927 was SFO-CDG for its last year of service and yes it has historically been 960/961 on SFO-CDG.

Well I'll be darned!!! I don't know where these planes are coming from, but I'm sure loving this added capacity...Seriously, though, where do these planes come from? Do we have that bad of aircraft utilization at UA? If we could only open up another new destination. Worldwide service, people--key word being "worldwide!!!" Come on UA. Be innovative. I guess we don't have time for creativity, experimentation and such when we have over 3 billion dollars to pay back.

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 3): Anyone going to SYD would most likely go through Asia. I think they are targeting all the connections to this flight in FRA, as well as connections to anywhere in the west coast (LAX, SAN, SNA, SEA, PDX, MRY, SBA, etc.)

  

This second route to FRA was a no brainer for UA. If you have ever been at T2 @ LHR after the 930 and 954 have landed you will know what i mean. Theres a lot of passengers coming off those flights and transferring to LH flights.

I was wondering what the capacity increase to Asia was.

Just wanted to mention in the thread that UA will now fly a B744 between ORD and PVG. I guess they flew the B772 before.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 7): Do we have that bad of aircraft utilization at UA? If we could only open up another new destination.

Well living in Shanghai, I think that UA 857/858 has to have one of the worst 744 utilizations. The inbound arrives from SFO at 5:45PM and the outbound leaves the next day at 1:45PM. I know that the China slots are limited, but keeping a plane on the ground 20 hours - thats tough.

Quoting BDL2STL2PVG (Reply 10): Well living in Shanghai, I think that UA 857/858 has to have one of the worst 744 utilizations. The inbound arrives from SFO at 5:45PM and the outbound leaves the next day at 1:45PM. I know that the China slots are limited, but keeping a plane on the ground 20 hours - thats tough.

It's the predicament of many US-Asia-US rotations for which the entire trip does not fit into a 24-hour cycle and, unless the airline schedules a tag on, keeps the aircraft on the ground for an extended period of time.

True, I've always wondered, why they don't retime the PVG-SFO flight like they do the ORD flight so it's a night departure, and a late afternoon/early evening arrival into SFO. Once the linkup with Shanghai Airlines is complete, this could allow for more connecting traffic from the rest of China via PVG.

When looking at the times of the SFO - FRA route I noticed that they'll need two planes to fly the route. Is that true?

I hope Asia works.

Europe will be saturated before long, yields are already crap. Come on UA, find something different. All the others are doing it, don't follow now.

You're a big airline with lots of resources, use them to find the "next" thing instead of following the others. Be a leader, we need you.

M

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): UA926 San Francisco- Frankfurt 6:55 p.m. 3:00 p.m. (next day) UA927 Frankfurt-San Francisco 5:25 p.m. 7:59 p.m.(same day)

The outbound flight arrives kinda late although it will be perfect for ongoing connections. But the return flight is perfectly timed for both business travelers and passengers connecting in FRA.

Quoting UA933 (Reply 13): When looking at the times of the SFO - FRA route I noticed that they'll need two planes to fly the route. Is that true?

While the RT does not fit in the 24 hours, the plane does not need to be the same one. Hypothetically, 2 planes can do SFO-FRA-IAD-FRA-SFO in 2 days. I have no idea how UA actually rotates the plane, it's probably more complicated than that.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): UA926 San Francisco- Frankfurt 6:55 p.m. 3:00 p.m. (next day) UA927 Frankfurt-San Francisco 5:25 p.m. 7:59 p.m.(same day) That FRA-SFO flight is pretty late in the day. That is a ridiculously late arrival to SFO. There are no connections beyond SFO with the exception to SYD available. What is the 777 going to do that late at night at SFO?

I'm becoming a bit antsy over another FRA flight. This means four daily flights to Germany (3 FRA+1MUC), close to LHR's five!!! Will these seats fill?

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 16):
While the RT does not fit in the 24 hours, the plane does not need to be the same one. Hypothetically, 2 planes can do SFO-FRA-IAD-FRA-SFO in 2 days. I have no idea how UA actually rotates the plane, it's probably more complicated than that.

Your last statement is correct. UA has one of the most complex aircraft scheduling matrixes in the industry. It is impossible to know how those aircraft are rotated unless you have access to the system that has the schedule. I can assure you, having had access to this system in my past life at UA, very few aircraft do a single route (e.g. SFO-FRA-SFO) on a regular basis; especially since the SFO-FRA is a two aircraft operation due to the length of the flights.

I am reasonably certain that UA was able to manipulate it's schedule to find the extra 777 aircraft hours and/or reallocated aircraft to different routes to find the aircraft to make the extra trips possible, especially given the fact that the majority of 777/747 heavy maintenance is done at SFO.

Whether the decision to add the additional lift in these markets makes sense is another matter. LH and UA coordinate extensively on routes to Germany (as well as revenue share); I'm reasonably certain that LH/UA together determined that they could generate incremental traffic by adding the second trip. I am less familiar with coordination in Asia, so I can't speak to that.

The timing of the flights does open some opportunities; the afternoon arrival in FRA is timed to meet their late afternoon bank of flights to Europe as well as provides a shorter connection to those LH flights that leave to long haul destinations in the evening. The late departure from SFO and late arrival in FRA for local traffic gives a full 1/2 day extra on the SFO end for the business traveler, even though the day is pretty well lost on the European side. Of course, as a business traveler, I prefer late afternoon arrivals in Europe, since it allows me to get a good meal and go to bed, then get up and do business fresh the following day.

The westbound flight can be fed by LHs midday bank of flights inbound to FRA. As far as connections beyond SFO, the flight arrives late enough to still make their late bank of flights, although I would think that the late departure from FRA would be attractive for business people who want at least a 1/2 to 3/4 day in Europe before returning home in the evening.

As to additional China flying; there certainly is an argument for adding capacity there. Unfortunately, the 747 in Economy (the vast majority of seats) is not anywhere near as comfortable as the 777. For F and J (where UA makes the money), the 747 is definitely a step up and since these flights are about 5 hours longer than the European trips, I am certain that aircraft will be very welcome by premium passengers.

Now, if UA would just put a bed product in Business Class...but that is another story for another thread.

baw716

Quoting Jyatlantic (Reply 17): I'm becoming a bit antsy over another FRA flight. This means four daily flights to Germany (3 FRA+1MUC), close to LHR's five!!! Will these seats fill?

What 3 to FRA? From SFO??? We only have one right now, and the other one is slated to start in late April. There is one direct (through Chicago, like UA908 or something, but it is not non-stop) to MUC actually. Other than those two flights, that's it to Germany from SFO. We do have a lot of flights to Germany, though. It's going to be our new London Heathrow I guess. 1, soon to be 2, from SFO, 3 from Chicago, and now 3 from IAD with the year-round addition of UA952/953 IAD-FRA-IAD. So that's 7, will be 8, to FRA. That's a lot, man. FRA is important to us of course, due to the Lufthansa partnership, but FRA is getting so much demand, eventually, there will be more flights to FRA than LHR! Still though, UA needs to fly somewhere else like someone said above. Be a trend-setter.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 19): What 3 to FRA? From SFO??

...I think he's including the LH and UA flights to Germany as well as the UA/BA/VS flights to LHR.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 19): What 3 to FRA? From SFO???

He's including the Lufthansa operated flights. Since LH/UA split transatlantic revenue (as do KLM and NW), then it makes sense to count both airlines' flights.

Quoting United777atGU (Reply 19): We do have a lot of flights to Germany, though. It's going to be our new London Heathrow I guess. 1, soon to be 2, from SFO, 3 from Chicago, and now 3 from IAD with the year-round addition of UA952/953 IAD-FRA-IAD. So that's 7, will be 8, to FRA. That's a lot, man. FRA is important to us of course, due to the Lufthansa partnership, but FRA is getting so much demand, eventually, there will be more flights to FRA than LHR! Still though, UA needs to fly somewhere else like someone said above. Be a trend-setter.

Well at some point UA needs to set a trend for starting flights out of DEN.

I am still hoping they will start SFO-IAD-DEL-IAD-SFO (non-stop to India). But UA would need new aircrafts. Anyway, wishful thinking. I think the route would do well with all the Indians in the bay area and DC area.