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Topic: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2006-11-25 15:19:40 and read 5972 times.

KLM CEO leo van wijk today told that AF-KL will place a joint order for medium haul planes in the future . He says it will be either the 737 replacement with Boeing, or the NSR (new short rang) from Airbus.

The Order will most probably be around 400 frames! to replace the current 220 planes they want to replace, and for major expension.

He told that both planes wont fly before mid-next decenium.

He also sayd that the first priority is to replace the regional fleet, currently under investigation.


source: www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl (only dutch)

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Flyboyaz
Posted 2006-11-25 15:52:51 and read 5919 times.

Do they plan on operating independently for good? I'm sure there's a lot of national pride involved...just wasn't sure how it was working out.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2006-11-25 16:03:24 and read 5882 times.

Quote:
Do they plan on operating independently for good? I'm sure there's a lot of national pride involved...just wasn't sure how it was working out.


KLM will keep its name untill atleast 2009, after that, and especially when AZ will join, they will probably operate under one name.

Most of the future orders will be orderd together, saving them maintenance costs, trainings cost etc...

so no, they won't operate independently

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Flyboyaz
Posted 2006-11-25 16:05:16 and read 5891 times.

Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Johnny
Posted 2006-11-25 16:11:42 and read 5863 times.

IsnĀ“t that exactly what i said in another KLM-Thread some weeks ago?

They will order only one short/medium-airplane-family and will not operate two like today.


Johnny

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Morvious
Posted 2006-11-25 16:45:33 and read 5794 times.

Well, things can change though, but its going to be a long wait before that happens..

Will be a boring sight at Schiphol though!

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Johnny
Posted 2006-11-25 16:47:04 and read 5790 times.

@ Morvious

Agree, it will be boring! And i guess they will change the livery in some years time as well...

Johnny

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: JRadier
Posted 2006-11-25 17:12:26 and read 5724 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
they will probably operate under one name.

Note: this is pure speculation (nothing wrong with that) and has NOT been confirmed by AF/KL.

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 3):
Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.

At this moment it are different systems

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Cloudyapple
Posted 2006-11-25 17:14:52 and read 5716 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
will probably operate under one name.

I cannot imagine any of the 3 countries each with its own big ego and patriotic population see their flag carriers lose their names to become a generic airline with a generic name.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2006-11-25 19:19:11 and read 5595 times.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 7):
Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 3):
Ah ok...thanks! Do they use the same reservation system? Sorry for all the questions...just not that familiar with them.


At this moment it are different systems

No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: JRadier
Posted 2006-11-25 19:29:01 and read 5577 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):

No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

my bad, I didn't know they already switched. I knew it before it went public, but wasn't sure they already changed it.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: MauriceB
Posted 2006-11-25 19:34:36 and read 5561 times.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 10):
my bad, I didn't know they already switched. I knew it before it went public, but wasn't sure they already changed it.

hehe no prob.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Morvious
Posted 2006-11-26 10:29:40 and read 5247 times.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 8):
I cannot imagine any of the 3 countries each with its own big ego and patriotic population see their flag carriers lose their names to become a generic airline with a generic name.

I agree. KL and maybe later on Alitalia don't have to much to say though, but I never see Air France dropping its name. Whould be an expensive mistake.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: HB-IWC
Posted 2006-11-26 11:53:26 and read 4984 times.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 7):
At this moment it are different systems



Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

The switch hasn't happened yet. KLM will join Air France's Reservation systems, which fall under the broader Amadeus umbrella, in March 2007 only. So, for the time being, KLM and Air France are still working under different reservation systems.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Runway23
Posted 2006-11-26 11:59:37 and read 4956 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen...

Actually as far as I know the switch hasn't been made yet for KLM.

KLM should still be on Galileo right now with the switch to Amadeus being made early next year.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Thorben
Posted 2006-11-26 12:00:22 and read 4950 times.

I suppose the first joint order will be for a long-range plane, either 787 or A350. Will be interesting to see what they'll go for, and whether that will already include getting some for AZ.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Lufthansa747
Posted 2006-11-26 12:07:50 and read 4916 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
No it isn't, both work with amadeus Jurgen

As said above, I believe KL is with their inhouse system (CORDA?)+Galileo for the time being.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Petertenthije
Posted 2006-11-26 12:39:21 and read 4787 times.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
I suppose the first joint order will be for a long-range plane, either 787 or A350.

Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: LY777
Posted 2006-11-26 12:49:01 and read 4760 times.

I think it will be the end of the 737NG for KLM.They will replace them with new A32S if AF and KLM place a joint order

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: FCKC
Posted 2006-11-26 13:41:36 and read 4590 times.

The very first common order will be either 787 or A350XWB , as already mentionned some days ago.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Kappel
Posted 2006-11-26 15:35:10 and read 4245 times.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 17):
Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.

Yes, but KLM has the MD11 to replace from 2012 (or 2015) on, and IIRC in that same time-period AF may want to replace the a343's. So a joint a350/b787 is very likely to be the first.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Par13del
Posted 2006-11-26 15:49:33 and read 4226 times.

Now would be a good time to look back at what the reason was for the merger and how the combined company would achieve savings and increase share holders value, profitability, efficiency, etc. etc. etc.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Thorben
Posted 2006-11-26 15:53:11 and read 4218 times.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 20):
Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 17):
Would not bet on that. Both KLM and AF have 777s and 330s in their fleet that are still very modern. At least KLM has more on order of both types, not sure about AF. First thing that needs replacement are the regional fleets. This was also mentioned in the article quoted by the thread starter.

Yes, but KLM has the MD11 to replace from 2012 (or 2015) on, and IIRC in that same time-period AF may want to replace the a343's. So a joint a350/b787 is very likely to be the first.

I agree, the 787 or A350s are not available for several years. At that time (2012 and later), some MD-11s, A343s, and 772s will be pretty old.

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Morvious
Posted 2006-11-26 16:37:20 and read 4172 times.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 18):
I think it will be the end of the 737NG for KLM.They will replace them with new A32S if AF and KLM place a joint order

I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?
If so, whats the sence of it if you are already looking for a re-replacement then?

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: Mauriceb
Posted 2006-11-26 16:45:48 and read 4164 times.

Quote:
I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?

8 737-800W's, orderd last week, you can check it on the boeing website..

People say it will be the end of the 737NG's at KL's fleet, but it will also be the end of A320's in AF's fleet, since both boeing and Airbus are most likely to build a whole new plane instead of updating the 737's and A320's

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2006-11-26 17:13:09 and read 4128 times.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
and especially when AZ will join

You mean IF they will join!

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: JRadier
Posted 2006-11-26 17:39:10 and read 4101 times.

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 16):
I believe KL is with their inhouse system (CORDA?)

CORDA is KLM as well, but I think you mean CODECO (COmputerized DEparture COntrol)

Topic: RE: AF-KL To Place Joint Order In Future
Username: AMSSFO
Posted 2006-11-26 17:50:56 and read 4093 times.

Quoting Morvious (Reply 23):
I thought KLM did place an order for new NG's to replace older 737 models. Was it a rumour of KLM or did they really announced it a while back?
If so, whats the sence of it if you are already looking for a re-replacement then?

6 B737-800 were ordered.
B and A first need to develop and launch the replacements for B737 and A320 resp before AF/KLM can decide and order any of them. This announcement is nothing more than a plan to place a joint order in the long-term (> 5 years). KLM needs more planes much sooner. Very slowly AF and KLM converge to one company, although this will take many many years. First they will integrate their cargo ops, then they will place joint orders. In 10-15 yeras they might consider to integrate their pax ops.


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