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Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NoWorries
Posted 2006-12-30 05:06:18 and read 12723 times.

Hot off the presses -- haven't seen this is any other publication yet:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nology/2003501594_webboeing29.html

Fair use excerpt:

Boeing sealed 110 of those orders in the last nine days, including a large order finalized Friday from Korean Air that pushed the total over the top.

[Edited 2006-12-30 05:10:36]

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Mymorningsong
Posted 2006-12-30 05:09:21 and read 12719 times.

Just amazing, particularly after last year. Congrats to Boeing.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2006-12-30 05:13:33 and read 12696 times.

As reported by Dominic Gates of the Seattle Times in the linked article:

Quote:
Boeing spokesman Randy Harrison said, that with two days to go before year-end, the 2006 sales total stands at 1,014 net jet orders, compared to 1,002 net orders last year.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: JAAlbert
Posted 2006-12-30 05:16:04 and read 12662 times.

wow! that is truly amazing. and lots of widebodies in the order book too. At the risk of having a tomato tossed my way . . . how did airbus do? I can never figure out its order book.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Cruiser
Posted 2006-12-30 05:18:03 and read 12651 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 3):
how did airbus do? I can never figure out its order book.

Airbus waited until aroun January 15th last year...we will likely have to wait just as long this year.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: T773ER
Posted 2006-12-30 05:38:23 and read 12545 times.

The title of the article says "2007 is record-breaking year for Boeing commercial jet orders", I thought we've been in 2006 all this time, how silly of me!

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Reggaebird
Posted 2006-12-30 06:21:26 and read 12347 times.

Well, I completely expect Airbus to announce (around January 12th) that their sales total "is similar to Boeing's". I learned my lesson from last year! Nonetheless, Boeing's order value totals will far surpass Airbus as it did last year.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: N328KF
Posted 2006-12-30 06:23:16 and read 12333 times.

When Hamlet69 releases his year-end summary, we should do a comparison by list price.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: AirFrnt
Posted 2006-12-30 06:36:30 and read 12248 times.

Astounding year after what we saw last year in the orders race. These orders really give Boeing a solid toe-hold for the next couple of years.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 10:01:51 and read 11943 times.

Look for Boeing to exceed Airbus in unit production during 2008. Why 2008? That's when B787 production will ramp up. Meanwhile, production of the B747, B767, and B777 will remain similar to now and B737 production will probably increase slightly.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Slz396
Posted 2006-12-30 10:24:57 and read 11890 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):
Look for Boeing to exceed Airbus in unit production during 2008. Why 2008? That's when B787 production will ramp up. Meanwhile, production of the B747, B767, and B777 will remain similar to now and B737 production will probably increase slightly.

Have we already heard from Boeing on what their planned annual production is going to be over the coming 5 years, because we sure have heard from A what they are planning to produce annually over the next 5 years and that was no small business!

If Boeing would be as open on this matter as Airbus and just gave us their planned production figures, we'd immediately know for sure if and when Boeing is going to overtake Airbus again in production...

With Airbus pumping up production of the A320 to close to 500 a year by the end of this decade, I don't think the 787 production numbers will be instrumental to helping Boeing overtake Airbus again... Whoever produces most of the most popular planes (i.e. the narrow bodies) is standing a very good chance of also being the biggest overall aircraft manufacturer in the world and for the foreseeable future this is going to be Airbus.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 777ER
Posted 2006-12-30 10:29:59 and read 11877 times.

WOW! I wonder how many of those orders are thanks to the B787. I would certainly love to know also how many widebody orders Airbus got over narrow body orders. WAY TO GO BOEING. Its time to pop those corks and party

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 10:30:31 and read 11871 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 10):
With Airbus pumping up production of the A320 to close to 500 a year by the end of this decade, I don't think the 787 production numbers will be instrumental to helping Boeing overtake Airbus again... Whoever produces most of the most popular planes (i.e. the narrow bodies) is standing a very good chance of also being the biggest overall aircraft manufacturer in the world and for the foreseeable future this is going to be Airbus.

The order backlogs for the A320 and B737 are about the same size and orders are coming in at about the same rate, so production rates for these models must necessarily converge.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Slz396
Posted 2006-12-30 10:50:24 and read 11817 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
The order backlogs for the A320 and B737 are about the same size and orders are coming in at about the same rate, so production rates for these models must necessarily converge.

Just looking at who is leading and who is following when it comes to 737/A320 production and sales numbers over a longer period of time, it is clear all trends you can read in the 737 figures are shown in the numbers of the A320 a few years earlier, with the 737 catching up when availability of the A320 becomes a problem, only to be be left behind again when more production capacity becomes available...

The fact Boeing once more hasn't decided to up 737 production by the same volume as Airbus on their A320, despite them having sold pretty similar numbers of their narrow body this year, clearly suggest Boeing still understands that when they loose the delivery time advantage which is now on their side, the 737 sales numbers can't keep pace with that of the A320....

Expect the sales and production gap between the A320 and the 737 to widen up again over the next years and I do not foresee such a considerable gap in narrow body production to be closed by wide body production for the simple fact wide bodies are produced in far smaller quantities...

[Edited 2006-12-30 10:54:22]

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 11:08:59 and read 11775 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
Just looking at who is leading and who is following when it comes to 737/A320 production and sales numbers over a longer period of time, it is clear all trends you can read in the 737 figures are shown in the numbers of the A320 a few years earlier, with the 737 catching up when availability of the A320 becomes a problem, only to be be left behind again when more production capacity becomes available...

If that were true, the A320 backlog would stretch farther into the future than the B737 backlog, which is not the case.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
The fact Boeing once more hasn't decided to up 737 production by the same volume as Airbus on their A320, despite them having sold pretty similar numbers of their narrow body this year, clearly suggest Boeing still understands that when they loose the delivery time advantage which is now on their side, the 737 sales numbers can't keep pace with that of the A320....

No, it says that Boeing are more risk-averse and that they value profitability more than market share.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
Expect the sales and production gap between the A320 and the 737 to widen up again over the next years and I do not foresee such a considerable gap in narrow body production to be closed by wide body production for the simple fact wide bodies are produced in far smaller quantities...

At Airbus, yes, widebodies are produced in far smaller quantities. Expect widebody production at Boeing to exceed 250/year as the B787 ramps up.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NAV20
Posted 2006-12-30 11:22:02 and read 11735 times.

Quite a feat by Boeing - I think even they, as well as most of us, expected demand to taper off this year. And they have the 'recovery phase' of the US airlines to look forward to too, presumably starting next year.

The astonishing thing, for me, is that the orders are spread right across their whole range. Even the 767 is still holding its own.

In business terms it means that they'll have a strong cash flow for at least the next six or seven years. Plenty of cash to finish 787 and 748 design/development, develop the 787 variants, produce a 737 replacement, and upgrade the 777 range.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Slz396
Posted 2006-12-30 11:27:14 and read 11725 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
If that were true, the A320 backlog would stretch farther into the future than the B737 backlog, which is not the case.

Your point actually proves some 737 customers want part of their order delivered later in time, making them generally less attractive 'long term slot filling' customers for any manufacturer and thus the most likely candidates to be bumbed first by Airbus when they can't accommodate ALL short term demands for A320s on their production line.

It couldn't be most of the 737 orders which are spun out far into the future have come on the books recently, can it?  scratchchin 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
it says that Boeing are more risk-averse and that they value profitability more than market share.

You really read reality according to the outcome you're after, don't you?

Wonder how you'll interpret a possible 787 production increase then....
Same situation, just the tables turned around.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
At Airbus, yes, widebodies are produced in far smaller quantities.

At Boeing too.

Can't remember the year when Boeing ever produced more widebodies than narrowbodies.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 11:30:09 and read 11712 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
In business terms it means that they'll have a strong cash flow for at least the next six or seven years. Plenty of cash to finish 787 and 748 design/development, develop the 787 variants, produce a 737 replacement, and upgrade the 777 range.

Upgrading the B777 to a level where it would be competitive with follow-on B787 models would be as expensive and as sensible as upgrading the B707 to be competitive with the B737NG. It's not going to happen. Anything that can be done with an updated B777 can be done at much lower operating cost and much lower development cost with an updated B787.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Slz396
Posted 2006-12-30 11:32:19 and read 11699 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
I think even they, as well as most of us, expected demand to taper off this year.

Indeed, although it could also mean we are just going to have to get used to higher order number's on average... With aviation booming everywhere, annual order numbers must follow too at some stage.

Whereas 300 to 400 orders were a perfectly normal average a few years ago, it might just be double of that will soon become the new standard....

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 11:39:17 and read 11678 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
Your point actually proves some 737 customers want part of their order delivered later in time, making them generally less attractive 'long term slot filling' customers for any manufacturer and thus the most likely candidates to be bumbed first by Airbus when they can't accommodate ALL short term demands for A320s on their production line.

Care to show that?

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
It couldn't be most of the 737 orders which are spun out far into the future have come on the books recently, can it?

That's about equally true for both the A320 and B737 models, which as I pointed out before, have similar backlogs and similar order levels.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
You really read reality according to the outcome you're after, don't you?

You're the one trying to claim that an equal number of A320 orders is somehow better than an equal number of B737 orders.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
Wonder how you'll interpret a possible 787 production increase then....
Same situation, just the tables turned around.

Compared to the length of the backlog and the rate at which B787 orders are coming in, I would say that Boeing have been conservative with their production rate plans.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
Can't remember the year when Boeing ever produced more widebodies than narrowbodies.

No one ever suggested that was the case. The operative term we both used (you first) was "far smaller" not simply "smaller". A few years from now, widebodies production at Airbus may be 1/10th of single-aisle production. That is far smaller. At Boeing it may be 1/2, which is smaller, but not far smaller. In dollar terms, labour hours, sq meters of production space, etc. it will be greater.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Columba
Posted 2006-12-30 12:01:39 and read 11563 times.

Congratulations to Boeing. They had a terrific year and what I think really interesting is the number of Boeing aircraft being ordered from Germany this year.
Especially the huge number of 737s from Air Berlin and TUI.
These orders together with Lufthansa´s order for 747-8Is will assure that we will be able to spot the silhouette of classic Boeing aircraft at German airports for years to come.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: AirKorea
Posted 2006-12-30 13:47:21 and read 11138 times.

Amazing!
With 1,014 net orders, Boeing Definitely beat Aribus in 2006.
Slim chance for Airbus to supass Boeing.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 14:30:41 and read 10885 times.

Quoting AirKorea (Reply 21):
With 1,014 net orders, Boeing Definitely beat Aribus in 2006.

Airbus conceded more than a month ago, but I still wouldn't say definitely. It's not too difficult to imagine a handful of airlines that could each order a hundred frames.

Quoting AirKorea (Reply 21):
Slim chance for Airbus to supass (sic) Boeing.

I agree that the chances are slim.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: UAL747-600
Posted 2006-12-30 14:38:24 and read 10848 times.

Boeing had 904 net at the end of last week. Add 25 for KE and we're up to 929. 1014-929=85. Anybody care to speculate on who this might be?

I guess we'll find out next week who these are for.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 14:44:51 and read 10810 times.

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 23):
Boeing had 904 net at the end of last week. Add 25 for KE and we're up to 929. 1014-929=85. Anybody care to speculate on who this might be?

I guess we'll find out next week who these are for.

Maybe not. They may be booked next week as UFOs. Boeing won't announce until the customer is ready. If the customers had been ready, Randy Harrison probably would have named them when he spoke with the Seattle Times.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NAV20
Posted 2006-12-30 14:47:45 and read 10798 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
Anything that can be done with an updated B777 can be done at much lower operating cost and much lower development cost with an updated B787.

Maybe I should have said 'upgrade or replace' the 777, Zvezda.  Wink

A lot depends on what Airbus comes up with. Tbe 777 is not in any sense a truly 'modern' aeroplane, but it is a helluva performer and the larger versions are currently 'the only show in town.'

Airbus is going to have to come up with a very good A350XWB design to beat it. And at present Airbus are having trouble finding the money even to develop the XWB, leave alone make a world-beater out of it.

If Airbus fails to come up with a really good design, the larger 777s are likely to stay in business - on the basis of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There will be nothing else available in the same size range. My guess is that, for that reason, Boeing themselves have not made any firm decisions about the 777's likely future.

To me, the truly chilling paragraph in the subject article, from Airbus' point of view, is this one:-

"In addition, because Boeing's orders include a much bigger proportion of the expensive widebody jets, the value of its orders should be about 75 percent higher than the value of Airbus orders."

That spells it out. In money terms Boeing are very close to capturing two-thirds of the market. Given that they have a comprehensive range, and Airbus doesn't have anything of the sort, I expect them to achieve at least that proportion, and probably much more - maybe 75% of the market - in 2007.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: UAL747-600
Posted 2006-12-30 14:48:58 and read 11403 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 24):
Maybe not. They may be booked next week as UFOs. Boeing won't announce until the customer is ready. If the customers had been ready, Randy Harrison probably would have named them when he spoke with the Seattle Times.

Good point. It'll be interesting to see the breakdown of what was ordered.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 15:13:36 and read 11275 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
Airbus is going to have to come up with a very good A350XWB design to beat [the B777]. And at present Airbus are having trouble finding the money even to develop the XWB, leave alone make a world-beater out of it.

It remains to be seen how competitive the A350 will be against the B787, but there can be no doubt, based on the preliminary specifications, that the A350 will handily beat the B777.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
If Airbus fails to come up with a really good design, the larger 777s are likely to stay in business - on the basis of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." There will be nothing else available in the same size range.

It's popular on A.net to believe that only airliners of very similar sizes compete with each other. This is a myth. The operating cost of the B787-10 will be so much lower than that of the B777-300ER, that for an airline to make more money operating the latter, the marginal seats beyond those which would fit in the former would have to be sold at fares above full Y. In other words, an airline would have to sell every seat on a B777-300ER above full Y. If passengers aren't willing to pay discounted business class fares (D/Z) to sit in Y seats, then there is more money to be made by operating a B787-10 instead and taking 90% as many passenger and probably 95% of the revenue (yes, in the real world that last 10% of seats brings in about 5% of the revenue) with only about 75% of the operating costs. There is no way that the last 10% of seats can bring in enough revenue to justify about 30% higher operating costs.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
In money terms Boeing are very close to capturing two-thirds of the market. Given that they have a comprehensive range, and Airbus doesn't have anything of the sort,

What a classic example of tragedy! Airbus had a comprehensive range from the A318/319 through the A340-600. Then Airbus declared that wasn't enough, that they needed the WhaleJet to have a comprensive range exceeding that of Boeing. Now, as a direct consequence of the WhaleJet fiasco, Airbus no longer have a comprehensive range. Thanks to a decade of neglect, the only member of the Airbus product line that is selling well is the A320.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2006-12-30 15:25:55 and read 11174 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 27):
Thanks to a decade of neglect, the only member of the Airbus product line that is selling well is the A320.

What about the A330?

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 15:35:42 and read 11119 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 28):
What about the A330?

It's selling, but I wouldn't say it's selling well. If it had received the same attention that the A340 got, it would be doing a whole lot better. At this point, I think Airbus need to put new engines on the A330 and not do any of the other proposed developments meant to help the A330 compete with the B787 on range. An A330E could sell well in the mid-range market and form the basis for a great freighter. On 5000nm routes, an A330E might be close to the B787-8 in CASM. If Airbus try to push the range to 7000nm (as previously proposed) then the CASM rises too high. Keep it light. Keep it simple. Keep it inexpensive.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Gaut
Posted 2006-12-30 17:37:30 and read 10261 times.

It is very impressive, congratulation to Boeing!!

Gaut

PS: Airbus will announce their numbers on the 17th of January

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2006-12-30 17:47:56 and read 10185 times.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 3):
wow! that is truly amazing. and lots of widebodies in the order book too. At the risk of having a tomato tossed my way . . . how did airbus do? I can never figure out its order book.

As of the last Hamlet update, Boeing had more net orders booked than Airbus had net orders+pending combined. With so little time left, that was a very significant milestone.

With Boeing firming 104 more, that would mean Airbus would have to book every pending order they had, plus add about 110 new orders, firmed, to "beat" Boeing this year.

There is nothing to say this can't be done. Airbus pulled a bunch of A320 orders to lease companies out of their hat last December 31, but the odds are much lower than last year. And there are still 2 more days remaining in the year, including this Sunday, the Islamic "Monday," when quite a lot has been announced during the year.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: DrExotica
Posted 2006-12-30 17:52:26 and read 10116 times.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 7):
When Hamlet69 releases his year-end summary, we should do a comparison by list price.

I tallied this number yesterday at work (unfortunately, I don't have the figures in front of me now), and according to all the firmed orders through yesterday morning (before this and the Korean news), Boeing had captured ~66% (to 34% for Airbus) of the list value pricing totals. As many have noted, there is a big discrepancy wrt wide bodies this year. As you might recall, last year it was 55/45 split on a total list value market of ~$210B.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: SSTsomeday
Posted 2006-12-30 18:09:40 and read 9974 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 10):
With Airbus pumping up production of the A320 to close to 500 a year by the end of this decade, I don't think the 787 production numbers will be instrumental to helping Boeing overtake Airbus again... Whoever produces most of the most popular planes (i.e. the narrow bodies) is standing a very good chance of also being the biggest overall aircraft manufacturer in the world and for the foreseeable future this is going to be Airbus.



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
Expect the sales and production gap between the A320 and the 737 to widen up again over the next years and I do not foresee such a considerable gap in narrow body production to be closed by wide body production for the simple fact wide bodies are produced in far smaller quantities...

You continue to ignore the value of those sales, as opposed to just the number of sales, in order to claim Airbus as the largest manufacturer.

Airbus themselves concede:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
"In addition, because Boeing's orders include a much bigger proportion of the expensive widebody jets, the value of its orders should be about 75 percent higher than the value of Airbus orders."

So I'm amazed that you, of all people, would assert to another member:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
You really read reality according to the outcome you're after, don't you?

I would agree that:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
....Boeing are more risk-averse and that they value profitability more than market share.

Airlines have learned this prudent rule the hard way. I'm glad that (some) manufacturers are learning it too.

Boeing recently refused an order from Southwest, if I recall correctly, given that 737 production is maxed out in the short term, because they didn't want to over extend themselves and become overconfident in terms of supply.

Boeing takes their "risks," I would assert, in the area of the "mission" of clean sheet A/C, which Boeing designs to create new classes of A/C and render existing models obsolete, rather than create A/C to compete with competitor's existing models. The 707, 747, 777, 787... were/are all new paradigns of design, creating new classes of A/C.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
Quite a feat by Boeing - I think even they, as well as most of us, expected demand to taper off this year. And they have the 'recovery phase' of the US airlines to look forward to too, presumably starting next year.

Yes, I thought this year would be an order lull for both manufacturers, but they have both done quite well. And with the recovering U.S. airlines orders still anticipated, I would suggest it's Boeing's windfall to lose in the widebody arena.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: SSTsomeday
Posted 2006-12-30 18:16:42 and read 9930 times.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
With Boeing firming 104 more, that would mean Airbus would have to book every pending order they had, plus add about 110 new orders, firmed, to "beat" Boeing this year.

That would be "number" of orders, anyway, not "value" of orders.

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 32):
I tallied this number yesterday at work (unfortunately, I don't have the figures in front of me now), and according to all the firmed orders through yesterday morning (before this and the Korean news), Boeing had captured ~66% (to 34% for Airbus) of the list value pricing totals.

Therrrrrrrre we go. A much more significant statistic, in my view. Even if Airbus pulls some orders out of their hat, or adds early Jan. orders to it's 2006 tally to pull ahead of Boeing in terms of "number of orders," I would assume Boeing still prefers to be in the position of having sold a significantly higher dollar value of it's products.

(I hope I'm not being petty; it's my competitive spirit showing. Please take no offence.)

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Kaitak744
Posted 2006-12-30 18:19:51 and read 9935 times.

It is also important to Boeing that they keep a limit on the 737, in terms of production years. They probably want the 737RS around 2015, so accepting 737 orders beyond then won't be a good idea.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 18:30:43 and read 9879 times.

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 34):
I would assume Boeing still prefers to be in the position of having sold a significantly higher dollar value of it's products.

In nearly all industries, market share comparisons are generally made by monetary value of sales, not number of units sold. Imagine one steelmaker saying "We sold 150 million 12 meter I-beams." Then another saying "We're bigger because we sold 170 million ball bearings."

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 7cubed
Posted 2006-12-30 18:36:14 and read 9829 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 10):
Whoever produces most of the most popular planes (i.e. the narrow bodies) is standing a very good chance of also being the biggest overall aircraft manufacturer in the world and for the foreseeable future this is going to be Airbus.

As SSTsomeday just mentioned the title of "Largest" goes to he who sells the most by dollar value. The gap between the two manufacturers has got to be a concern in Talouse. If the trend continues, they risk be seen as the Yugo of the aircraft industry.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 777ATech
Posted 2006-12-30 19:22:30 and read 9515 times.

Expect the rates for 777 and 737 to go up in 2007. Boeing wanted to see how the suppliers coped with the increased in production this year and so far it looks good. The 737 will go up to high thirty p/m while the 777 will go up to ten from what I hear.
This is madness - we work nearly 24/7 but I am pleased that there are no quality issues and overall things are smooth.
I personally couldn't care less how many airframes Airbus sells. I just want us to make them as good as possible and right now I can say that we do.
So, I say - good job to all those who made the last two three years so memorable for us.
We probably could do even better is we didn't spend so much time on the net reading this posts.....
"Happy new year" to all of you and may the new year be all clear skies and smooth flying.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Atmx2000
Posted 2006-12-30 20:04:17 and read 9190 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 36):
In nearly all industries, market share comparisons are generally made by monetary value of sales, not number of units sold. Imagine one steelmaker saying "We sold 150 million 12 meter I-beams." Then another saying "We're bigger because we sold 170 million ball bearings."

Another example would be the computer server market, where IBM is ranked the largest vendor despite the fact that other vendors have larger unit marketshare because its server revenue is by far the greatest. IBM sells far more expensive high performance & high RAS UNIX and mainframe servers than HPaq and Dell, who sell a lot more low end x86 servers.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 38):
Expect the rates for 777 and 737 to go up in 2007. Boeing wanted to see how the suppliers coped with the increased in production this year and so far it looks good. The 737 will go up to high thirty p/m while the 777 will go up to ten from what I hear.

I don't think the 777 is going to 10 a month. It currently is at 6, for over 70 a year. I seem to recall a number around 80 to 90 per year being a target for production. But it certainly makes sense to boost production if the demand is there for the next few years, as it would reduce the market for the larger A350XWB model and create a large replacement market starting around 2020. Boeing can stick

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Stitch
Posted 2006-12-30 20:23:56 and read 9099 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 35):
It is also important to Boeing that they keep a limit on the 737, in terms of production years. They probably want the 737RS around 2015, so accepting 737 orders beyond then won't be a good idea.

Even when the 737RS is launched, the USN will be in the process of taking over 100 737NGs for the P-8 Poseidon program, plus whatever sales Boeing can get from nations operating the P-3 Orion (and perhaps even the UK will take some to replace the Nimrod). Then there is the AEW&C Wedgetail sales, and the C-40B and C-40C.

Also, nothing would stop Boeing from offering the 737RS to customers slated to receive 737NGs once the "production switchover" happens. I imagine some of the first 747-8F customers had intended to buy 747-400Fs, but Boeing made the new plane available at a price that complimented the additional efficiencies the operators would gain from the new model and allowed them to cut over to the 747-8 exclusively in 2009.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 20:33:03 and read 9032 times.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 39):
I don't think the 777 is going to 10 a month. It currently is at 6, for over 70 a year.

I agree. 10/month makes no sense. Boeing haven't been selling 120+ per year for long enough and can't reasonably expect to in the future. I can imagine going from 6/month to 7/month, but not more. If I were Boeing, I'd probably stay at 6/month.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: SSTsomeday
Posted 2006-12-30 22:54:25 and read 8282 times.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 38):
I personally couldn't care less how many airframes Airbus sells. I just want us to make them as good as possible and right now I can say that we do.

Point taken, and great to hear.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 777ATech
Posted 2006-12-30 23:11:11 and read 8203 times.

I should know how many 777 per month we build. I look at my schedule each day of my life. The rates for 777 are at seven per month right now. I can't believe no one knew....

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Atmx2000
Posted 2006-12-30 23:23:42 and read 8125 times.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 43):
I should know how many 777 per month we build. I look at my schedule each day of my life. The rates for 777 are at seven per month right now. I can't believe no one knew....

Looking at the Boeing 777 deliveries for the last year and last few months indicates the aircraft delivery rate is between 5 and 6 still. 7 were delivered in November but only 4 were delivered in September. Not knowing where you are in the supply chain, it is possible that you are seeing increased production for future deliveries.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: N328KF
Posted 2006-12-30 23:30:01 and read 8073 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 35):
They probably want the 737RS around 2015, so accepting 737 orders beyond then won't be a good idea.

Well, the AA/DL/CO orders are for a particular product category, not for a particular product. Eg. the gentleman's agreements (nee exclusivity contracts) gave the carrier flexibility to shift their orders from say the 737 to Y1 without penalty. It didn't say what Y1 was...just "a future offering in this category." Etc.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 23:33:47 and read 8078 times.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 43):
I should know how many 777 per month we build. I look at my schedule each day of my life. The rates for 777 are at seven per month right now. I can't believe no one knew....

I just looked up 777 deliveries on the Boeing website for 1 Feb 2006 through 30 Nov 2006. 56 in 10 months is a production rate of 5.6 per month. That would lead me to guess that the rate had been increase from 5 per month to 6 per month. Looking at the same period last year, there were only 36 deliveries or 3.6 per month. As of what date are Boeing producing 7 per month?

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: N328KF
Posted 2006-12-30 23:34:35 and read 8059 times.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 44):
Looking at the Boeing 777 deliveries for the last year and last few months indicates the aircraft delivery rate is between 5 and 6 still. 7 were delivered in November but only 4 were delivered in September.

I think this discrepancy is due to the TAAG SNAFU (not Boeing's fault.)

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 777ATech
Posted 2006-12-30 23:51:17 and read 7964 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
I just looked up 777 deliveries on the Boeing website for 1 Feb 2006 through 30 Nov 2006. 56 in 10 months is a production rate of 5.6 per month. That would lead me to guess that the rate had been increase from 5 per month to 6 per month. Looking at the same period last year, there were only 36 deliveries or 3.6 per month. As of what date are Boeing producing 7 per month?

I see what you mean but I believe the picture you and I are looking is not the same. You are looking at delivered frames while I, at aircraft in production.
I suppose, in January it will become more apparent what the true rates are.
As for the 737, that is what I heard and the sources are very reliable. Of course Boeing may or may not go for it but I believe they are.
Considering the problems it had the last time it increased the rates like this, I see why they proceed with such caution.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-30 23:55:32 and read 7952 times.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 48):
I see what you mean but I believe the picture you and I are looking is not the same. You are looking at delivered frames while I, at aircraft in production.

Orders are a leading indicator and deliveries are a trailing indicator. However, The time from the start of final assembly to delivery isn't long enough to skew the numbers too badly. Again, I ask:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 46):
As of what date are Boeing producing 7 per month?

When did the switch from 6 per month to 7 per month take place?

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 777ATech
Posted 2006-12-31 00:03:39 and read 7893 times.

I believe it was September

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Stitch
Posted 2006-12-31 00:08:32 and read 7968 times.

(Emphasis mine)

Quote:
"If we can compact the time it takes to build the airplane ... it allows a lot of flexibility to meet demand," said Cadena. At the end of 2006, according to internal documents, Boeing plans a rate increase from five 777s per month to seven. Shifting the rear fuselage systems work next week will also clear out an assembly bay that is destined for production of the 787.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...echnology/2002840574_boeing03.html

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2006-12-31 00:13:54 and read 7953 times.

Quoting 777ATech (Reply 50):
I believe it was September

Thanks!

Then we can expect 80-something 777 deliveries in 2007. That's quite a lot considering that 76 have been ordered in 2006 including the 15 just announced for KE. I doubt we'll ever see the rate increased above 7 per month. Over the last four years, 777 orders have averaged 71 per year.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Stitch
Posted 2006-12-31 00:20:47 and read 7885 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 52):
Then we can expect 80-something 777 deliveries in 2007. That's quite a lot considering that 76 have been ordered in 2006 including the 15 just announced for KE. I doubt we'll ever see the rate increased above 7 per month. Over the last four years, 777 orders have averaged 71 per year.

From the same article:

Quote:

The net impact on the 777, according to internal company documents, will be to reduce the number of work-flow days — the total time spent assembling one jet — from the current 20 days to 16 days by the middle of next year, to 15 days a year later, then further out to just 12 days.

That dramatic shortening of build time will allow Boeing to adjust the production rate much more quickly, according to the level of orders.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: UAL747-600
Posted 2006-12-31 00:50:39 and read 7734 times.

Sorry I don't have the link available but I read (in flight or AV Week)that 777 production will peak in 2008 at approx. 90. So that would be 7.5 per month. 2007, 2008 and 2009 promise to be great production years for the 777.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Eagle11
Posted 2006-12-31 04:09:49 and read 7101 times.

Congrats to Boeing on a great 2006. I'm looking forward to an even better 2007.

The future really looks bright for both manufacturers though. So many new and expanding airlines around them world, and so many more looking to replace their aging fleets (notably American carriers).

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WingedMigrator
Posted 2006-12-31 05:41:42 and read 6835 times.

Way to go, Boeing!

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 15):
The astonishing thing, for me, is that the orders are spread right across their whole range. Even the 767 is still holding its own.

I agree. For me, this is the most striking aspect of the tally-- Boeing is firing evenly on all cylinders. Not a bum product anywhere across the lineup. That can only be good for shareholders (as the stock price already attests).

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: EK413
Posted 2006-12-31 08:50:34 and read 6670 times.

Congradulations to such a great aircraft manufacture!
Take my hat off to their great achievement through some tough times...

EK413

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: JayinKitsap
Posted 2007-01-02 03:20:36 and read 6202 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 52):
Then we can expect 80-something 777 deliveries in 2007. That's quite a lot considering that 76 have been ordered in 2006 including the 15 just announced for KE. I doubt we'll ever see the rate increased above 7 per month. Over the last four years, 777 orders have averaged 71 per year.

Boeing in 2006 will be somewhere around 400 deliveries, 2007 should be up to about 450 deliveries with the additional being about 12 added 777's, 3 747's and 35 more 737's. By 2008, it should be close to 500 and in 2009 with the 787 production ramped up, about 550 planes (737 - 360ea, 747 - 24ea, 767 - 10 ea, 777-80 ea, and 787- 80 ea.)

Will Boeing still be doing their orders summary this Thursday for the year? Does anyone have any clue what made up the other 75 orders noted? Plus did any additional get finalized over the weekend.

BTW Best wishes for the New Year

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Astuteman
Posted 2007-01-02 12:22:12 and read 5850 times.

Belatedly, very many congratulations to Boeing CA on a truly remarkable achivement, coming, as it does, on the back of a record year in 2005.

Awesome.

 champagne 

Regards

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Keesje
Posted 2007-01-02 12:31:56 and read 5839 times.

Great sales year for Boeing, more then 2000 aircraft sold in two year. Lay a solid base for optimizing production in the next 5 years.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-03 09:01:17 and read 5357 times.

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 58):
Does anyone have any clue what made up the other 75 orders noted? Plus did any additional get finalized over the weekend.



Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 23):
Boeing had 904 net at the end of last week. Add 25 for KE and we're up to 929. 1014-929=85. Anybody care to speculate on who this might be?

According to the Seatlte times 60 737s for Air Berlin air included now. They've also raised the total to 1040. But considering it's been raised from 1014, it could have been a misunderstanding.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/298176_boeing03.html?source=rss


"Before the year ended, Boeing finalized its deal with Korean Air for 25 jets, including 737s, 777s and 747s, and firmed up a deal with Air Berlin for 60 737s."

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 2wingtips
Posted 2007-01-03 13:38:12 and read 5172 times.

by my calculations, firming up Ke(25), AB(60) and the new 9W 788 order(10) gets Boeing to 999 net orders. Looks like a few new orders will be announced late this week as it is very clear Boeing have 1000+ orders net for 2006. Maybe a surprise EI 787 order,b ut probably a swag of 737NGs.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2007-01-03 13:46:37 and read 5145 times.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 62):
by my calculations, firming up Ke(25), AB(60) and the new 9W 788 order(10) gets Boeing to 999 net orders.

How about 41 for TUI which was the balance that some came to the conclusion was the amount of new frames required for them to meet the 65 that they announced on December 15? That would get you to 1040 mentioned. Just a thought. In my opinion we may well see a different mix.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: N1786b
Posted 2007-01-03 13:47:39 and read 5148 times.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 62):
by my calculations, firming up Ke(25), AB(60) and the new 9W 788 order(10) gets Boeing to 999 net orders. Looks like a few new orders will be announced late this week as it is very clear Boeing have 1000+ orders net for 2006. Maybe a surprise EI 787 order,b ut probably a swag of 737NGs.

Add the 41 additional planes for TUI and presto, you get 1040!

- n1786b

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: 2wingtips
Posted 2007-01-03 13:59:54 and read 5121 times.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 64):
Add the 41 additional planes for TUI and presto, you get 1040!

My understanding is that the TUI order is listed as UFO already. I could be wrong here, however, as 41 matches their new order requirement exactly.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-03 14:25:32 and read 5075 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 61):
According to the Seatlte times

Perhaps you meant to say Seattle Post-Intelligencer? James Wallace reported today's story linked in your reply. Dominic Gates reported the story linked in the threadstarter in Friday's edition of the Seattle Times.

[Edited 2007-01-03 14:28:22]

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-03 14:42:37 and read 5036 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 66):
Perhaps you meant to say Seattle Post-Intelligencer? James Wallace reported today's story linked in your reply. Dominic Gates reported the story linked in the threadstarter in Friday's edition of the Seattle Times.

No I didn't meant to write (and certainly not to say, or did you meant to write 'write') Seattle Post-Intelligencer, otherwise I would have written so. Screwed up there (FWIW). It's that simple.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-03 15:11:19 and read 4948 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 67):
did you meant [sic] to write 'write'

My intent was not to offend you, merely to correct the record. FWIW, "to say," in this context, means to express in words, either verbally or in writing.

[Edited 2007-01-03 15:12:59]

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: N1786b
Posted 2007-01-03 15:26:42 and read 4879 times.

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 65):
My understanding is that the TUI order is listed as UFO already. I could be wrong here, however, as 41 matches their new order requirement exactly.

Only some of them were listed as UFOs.

Here is the statement from Boeing:

Boeing Statement on TUI Group Announcement
SEATTLE, Dec. 15, 2006 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] is delighted to confirm that the TUI Group has announced a major fleet renewal involving the purchase of 41 Boeing airplanes valued at $3.6 billion at list prices.

This order brings the total order backlog of TUI with Boeing to a total of 65 aircraft, some of which were previously recorded on Boeing's Orders and Deliveries website as unidentified.

Germany-based TUI Group is the world's largest integrated tourism company.
-ends-

- n1786b

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2007-01-03 16:05:26 and read 4764 times.

What amazes me is that airlines are still ordering the 767, with 10 showing on the books for 2006.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: PanAm_DC10
Posted 2007-01-03 16:32:45 and read 4705 times.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 69):
purchase of 41 Boeing airplanes

Speculative opinion that those 41 are 30 x 737s and 11 x 787s as there are enough UFOs which correspond to getting that number for TUI because as you said;

Quoting N1786b (Reply 69):
Only some of them were listed as UFOs.

Just a question of how many. Doesn't matter all will be known shortly.

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-03 16:35:07 and read 4692 times.

I think the previous posters have got it right. Let's take a look at the numbers:

Currently known Boeing net order totals: 904

Potential Orders to be added:
Korean Air: 25
Jet Airways: 10
TUI: 41
Air Berlin: 60
Totals: 1040

Though in the Seattle PI article said this number can fluctuate a little before being released so perhaps there are more orders, conversions or cancellations that have to be added or subtracted. We'll know tomorrow.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: SSTsomeday
Posted 2007-01-03 17:48:49 and read 4547 times.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 60):
Great sales year for Boeing, more then 2000 aircraft sold in two year. Lay a solid base for optimizing production in the next 5 years.

What does that mean?

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WestWing
Posted 2007-01-03 19:05:20 and read 4428 times.

Quote:

Begin: 904
Korean Air: 25 Jet Airways: 10, TUI: 41, Air Berlin: 60
Total: 1040

It appears to add up until one attempts to explain the Dec 29th total [1014 which includes Korean].
 confused 

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2007-01-03 19:13:20 and read 4403 times.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 74):
It appears to add up until one attempts to explain the Dec 29th total [1014 which includes Korean].

Didn't BA want to replace 26 planes? 16 767s and 10 744s, or am I mistaken. Of course, I highly doubt it was BA.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: ERAUgrad02
Posted 2007-01-03 19:21:52 and read 4414 times.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 70):
What amazes me is that airlines are still ordering the 767, with 10 showing on the books for 2006.

I keep asking who ordered these. i know LAN has 3 but who ordered the rest? Who split their 1 777 for 2 767's last week? does anyone know?

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2007-01-03 19:35:24 and read 4360 times.

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 76):
I keep asking who ordered these.

Well HA has been picking up used ones, but maybe they ordered one or two new ones if a couple of the used ones are turning out to be dogs. HA's 767 fleet is quite new, but gets older with each used one they take. But they are in no position to order the 788 in bulk, nor does ordering the 788 for delivery in 2011 help them with expansion before then.

I'm sure there are other carriers around the world in this position.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WestWing
Posted 2007-01-03 20:09:23 and read 4261 times.

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 76):
Who split their 1 777 for 2 767's last week? does anyone know?

Someone provided an intelligent guess in another thread that it might be JL replacing their one undelivered 772A model with two 767 freighters.

Topic: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-04 17:40:37 and read 4061 times.

Boeing just posted it's total orders for 2006

1044 orders.

Changes include:


Air Berlin 60 x 737
Alaska Airlines 3 x 737 (2 previously UFO)
Boeing Business Jet 2 x 737
Delta Air Lines 10 x 737
Jet Airways 10 x 787
Korean Air 4 x 737, 5 x 747 and 15 x 777
Xiamen Airlines 6 x 737
Unidentified 27 x 737

target=_blank>http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Congrats an amazing year Boeing!

Additionally they delivered 398 aircraft in 2006.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-04 18:00:56 and read 3950 times.

ANA was the one who converted the 777 to two 767-300ERs. Very Interesting!!!

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: DAYflyer
Posted 2007-01-04 18:01:20 and read 3948 times.

A supurb year for Boeing. Congratulations for prodcing outstanding value for your customers.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: BoeingFever777
Posted 2007-01-04 18:10:27 and read 3898 times.

Official release:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2007/q1/070103f_nr.html

747= 72 "highest total since 1990"  Smile
767= 10
777= 76
787= 157

Amazing year for Boeing and their commercial division. Big grin

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WestWing
Posted 2007-01-04 18:16:45 and read 3853 times.

As for the earlier number of 1014 it looks the following 30 were the ones counted after that.

Alaska Airlines 1 x 738
Delta Air Lines 10 x 738
Jet Airways 10 x 787-8
Xiamen Airlines 6 x 738
Unidentified 3 x 738

Note:

NH had 4 772As undelivered before this December update, now they have none. It appears they are the ones who got the two 767s, but did they also convert the other three 772As to -300ERs?

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: SEAdomer787
Posted 2007-01-04 18:17:12 and read 3863 times.

and, of course:

737= 729!!!!

unbelieveable!

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-04 18:33:10 and read 3768 times.

Quoting WestWing (Reply 83):
NH had 4 772As undelivered before this December update, now they have none. It appears they are the ones who got the two 767s, but did they also convert the other three 772As to -300ERs?

I believe that to be the case.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WestWing
Posted 2007-01-04 18:37:46 and read 3755 times.

Also of note is that since the four PR 744s have not yet vanished from the order books, the booked UFO 777s for 2006 probably do not include any 777 orders from PR.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-01-04 20:25:28 and read 3537 times.

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 84):
737= 729!!!!

Pity Boeing couldn't sell eight more 737s.  Smile

Of course, 315 widebodies is quite amazing.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-04 20:29:16 and read 3509 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 87):
Pity Boeing couldn't sell eight more 737s.

I had the exact same thought.  Smile
Should have given some deep discounts... sell 8 more and then run a series of adds and billboards (like they do around here) advertising the 737 selling 737 on another year after year record pace.

Then they could write off the 8 frames as part of the advertising budget. LOL

Okay... so thats a stretch...

Congrats to Boeing! My job is secure...  Smile

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 87):
Of course, 315 widebodies is quite amazing.

This is just dumbfounding when you think about it... ALL aircraft kept pace or outsold their production rate... Amazing!

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-01-04 20:47:20 and read 3435 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 88):
This is just dumbfounding when you think about it... ALL aircraft kept pace or outsold their production rate... Amazing!

That may be true for Airbus also. We'll see in a few weeks. I'm not sure about the A300/A310 line though.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Kaitak744
Posted 2007-01-04 20:58:00 and read 3399 times.

HOWW did Delta order planes? I thought airlines under bankruptcy protection were only allowed to "amend" existing orders, and not place new ones???

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-04 21:02:59 and read 3370 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 90):
HOWW did Delta order planes? I thought airlines under bankruptcy protection were only allowed to "amend" existing orders, and not place new ones???

Either they slipped one past the Government... or... they know something we don't... OR it was deposit money for slots they already owned that was used to make this purchase (from what i hear... this was the case).

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-04 21:12:57 and read 3327 times.

Actually they agreed to sell most of their 738 orders and replace it with the 73G order. In the end they probably made money on the deal as they sold more large aircraft and buying fewer smaller aircraft. They probably got the bankruptcy court approval as it only improves their cash position and not make it worse.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Kaitak744
Posted 2007-01-04 21:21:07 and read 3296 times.

Also, why is the Delta 777-200LR order/conversion not showing in Boeing's order database?

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: DrExotica
Posted 2007-01-04 21:50:57 and read 3198 times.

As usual, these are all list price figures...

It looks like the list price order value for the confirmed orders at Boeing this year are approximately $106.6 billion.

This value was arrived at by combining the list prices as specified in the Nov/Dec 2005 Airline Fleet and Network Management as well as a detailed user defined report on the Boeing Orders and Deliveries page.

Boeing scored $23.82 billion in orders in December alone (212 frames).

As for Airbus, using the same process, we see $47.3 billion through the end of November. It will be fun to see how their December totals pan out.

Last year, it was estimated in the press (AWST and others as I recall) that the total market value was approximately $210 billion, with 55% by value going to Boeing ($110-$115 billion). Hard to believe that they finished on par with last year.

(I will try doing the same with their official 2005 numbers)

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: BoeingFever777
Posted 2007-01-04 22:00:39 and read 3178 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 90):
HOWW did Delta order planes? I thought airlines under bankruptcy protection were only allowed to "amend" existing orders, and not place new ones???

Under their protection they agreed to sell 15 Boeing 737-800 aircraft to Aviation Capital Group, the airplane leasing company unit of Pacific LifeCorp., and 23 planes to Babcock & Brown Aviation Finance Ltd.

In exchange the court let them order (10) 737-7 and convert (5) firm 772ER's to LR's. This was approved by the court.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ws&storyid=200408+07-Dec-2006+RTRS

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 93):
Also, why is the Delta 777-200LR order/conversion not showing in Boeing's order database?

This is part of their restructuring plan and must be approved by the courts. This is why Boeing never made any official announcement on this.

Hope that article helps you out.

[Edited 2007-01-04 22:05:16]

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: WestWing
Posted 2007-01-04 22:18:33 and read 3116 times.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 93):
Also, why is the Delta 777-200LR order/conversion not showing in Boeing's order database?

A related issue is (and NYC777 touched on it already) along with these LR coversions, Delta also said they would convert ten future 737-800 options to 737-700s and exercise them. But the ten 737 order in Dec is logged as being for 737-800s - don't know if that is correct either.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: DrExotica
Posted 2007-01-05 01:11:54 and read 2955 times.

Applying the same methodology as I did above for the 2005 order book, we see the following for Boeing:

2005 - $121.6 billion
2006 - $106.6 billion

This is a decrease of $15.0 billion, despite delivering more frames. Of course, it all comes down to widebody sales:

2005 - 454 widebody frames
2006 - 315 widebody frames

Curious about Airbus once they finalize 2006.

Topic: RE: Boeing Books 1044 Net Orders For 2006
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-05 13:04:06 and read 2723 times.

Quoting DrExotica (Reply 97):
it all comes down to widebody sales...Curious about Airbus once they finalize 2006.



Quote:
...Airbus will not announce its 2006 order total until Jan. 17....Of the 635 orders that Airbus had signed through November, 580 were for its singe-aisle A320 family...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/298518_boeingorders05.html



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116793284392367282.html


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