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Topic: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Lu
Posted 2007-01-15 06:11:30 and read 12855 times.

Air China B747-400(B-2447),whose left winglet was cut while colliding with a Delta jet in JFK last week continued flying back base in Beijing from JFK with few load. Then it run the scheduled flight between Beijing and Frankfurt.

I am wondering wheather B747-400 without one winglet can fly. Is it safe for flying under FAA regulation?

Here pics

http://bbs.feeeco.com/upload/20070112/200701120142354233.jpg

http://bbs.feeeco.com/upload/20070112/200701120144586833.jpg

Lu

[Edited 2007-01-15 06:35:26]

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Wingtip
Username: Alitalia744
Posted 2007-01-15 06:17:36 and read 12854 times.

yes the a/c can operate without a winglet. there are restrictions however.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Wingtip
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2007-01-15 06:27:12 and read 12822 times.

There is an approved temp. repair for most airplane that have winglets, to fly with one, or both removed. You do have to retrim the airplane to do it. I seem to remember a KLM B-747-400 was flying around for about 6 months with only one winglet, about 10-12 years ago.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: PhilSquares
Posted 2007-01-15 06:44:26 and read 12761 times.

Perfectly safe. Here's a cut and paste from the MEL/CDL.


CDL Number: 57-28-1
Item: Winglets [P]*
Model: All
No. Installed: 2
Requirements:
One may be missing provided the performance limited weights are reduced by the following:
Takeoff Enroute Climb Landing
9435 kg 4536 kg 9435 kg
Apply fuel penalty of 2.5% to the entire mission fuel.

NOTE: If a winglet is removed, the affected winglet fairings except the leading edge wingtip fairing Part Number 118U0010 and the trailing edge wingtip fairing Part Number 118U0030 must be removed. The forward facing opening in the trailing edge wingtip fairing must be covered (e.g. sped tape).


If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: FlyingPie946LJ
Posted 2007-01-15 07:59:30 and read 12636 times.

hah that's interesting, I'd imagine it'd be breaking some sort of rules by flying with one winglet.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: JayDub
Posted 2007-01-15 18:21:48 and read 12131 times.

Quoting FlyingPie946LJ (Reply 4):
hah that's interesting, I'd imagine it'd be breaking some sort of rules by flying with one winglet.

You'd be amazed with amount of items you can fly around with having one or zero required for dispatch.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: EZYAirbus
Posted 2007-01-15 18:56:49 and read 12037 times.

Air Canada have run 747-400s without a winglet too


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Hemmings



Also the A340-300 has been known to operate with a winglet missing!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Hemmings



Glenn

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: PurpleBox
Posted 2007-01-15 21:58:16 and read 10798 times.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.

Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.

PurpleBox.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Gigneil
Posted 2007-01-15 22:04:58 and read 10644 times.

744Ds don't come with winglets at all so I would imagine they don't appear on the MEL for that airframe.  Smile

NS

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Necigrad
Posted 2007-01-15 23:42:41 and read 9019 times.

Thats a huge penalty. Over 9000 kilos in weight and then 2.5% extra burn on top of that!

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Qantas744ER
Posted 2007-01-15 23:50:56 and read 8903 times.

Anyone know the MTOW for the CX 744's? to my reference it is 850,000Lbs but that is a little low for the PEK-JFK flights to be operated under a profitable basis. So do they have 870,000Lbs or 875,000Lbs MTOW option?

Cheers Leo

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2007-01-15 23:54:49 and read 8840 times.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 7):
Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.



Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 7):
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 3):
If you read the MEL, only one winglet can be removed.

Interresting - JAL and ANA domestic B744's don't have any winglets fitted at all.



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
744Ds don't come with winglets at all

JL and NH 744D's also don't have the wingtip extensions of other 744s, making their wingspan approximately 16 feet less (the same as 741/742/743). The extra weight of the extensions and winglets serve no purpose when flight durations are mostly 1 to 2 hours with much of the fllight spent climbing and desending and not much at cruise altitude. The extensions and winglets can be added should the aircraft be transferred to longhaul service.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Rdwelch
Posted 2007-01-16 00:02:05 and read 8719 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 11):
JL and NH 744D's also don't have the wingtip extensions of other 744s, making their wingspan approximately 16 feet less (the same as 741/742/743). The extra weight of the extensions and winglets serve no purpose when flight durations are mostly 1 to 2 hours with much of the fllight spent climbing and desending and not much at cruise altitude. The extensions and winglets can be added should the aircraft be transferred to longhaul service.

Great point.

Gus.

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: Qantas744ER
Posted 2007-01-16 00:38:43 and read 8284 times.

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 10):
Anyone know the MTOW for the CX 744's? to my reference it is 850,000Lbs but that is a little low for the PEK-JFK flights to be operated under a profitable basis. So do they have 870,000Lbs or 875,000Lbs MTOW option?

Sorry I mean the CA MTOW not CX

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: MCIFlyer
Posted 2007-01-16 01:08:48 and read 7921 times.

Am I the only person to notice the predominance of left winglets missing in these and similar photos? A search of 744s turned up only one or two photos of right winglets missing, whereas the rest of the aircraft missing a single winglet were missing their port side winglet.

Can anyone speculate why this is so? Are left-wing collisions more common than right-wing? Is it due to more push-backs or taxiing activities exposing the port winglet to potential collision?

Yes, I realize this post is about left winglets...but let us not discriminate against our starboard brothers!  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: B747-400 Without Left Winglet
Username: LimaNiner
Posted 2007-01-16 06:15:34 and read 5462 times.

Quoting MCIFlyer (Reply 14):
Am I the only person to notice the predominance of left winglets missing in these and similar photos?



Quoting MCIFlyer (Reply 14):
Can anyone speculate why this is so?

Left winglets fetch more at the pawn shop than right winglets...?  Wink


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