Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3219457/

Topic: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: UAL777UK
Posted 2007-01-24 14:57:39 and read 18712 times.

Jeez, these guys are expanding like nothing.......I wonder if the delays with the 380 will heavily influebce their decision??

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...58_L24252628&type=comktNews&rpc=44

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: MastaHanky
Posted 2007-01-24 14:59:10 and read 18723 times.

I think Emirates has been saying they're going to place a 100 plane order in two or three months for the past two years!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-24 15:09:14 and read 18588 times.

There seem to be a few errors in the article. The deal is valued US$15 billion at listprice. Both the 787 (except the 783) and the A350XWB are more then US$150 million a piece IIRC, 100 of them would result in more then US$15 billion.

Emirates expects to take delivery of the first aircraft in 2012? How are they going to manage that if they choose the A350XWB, which is, according to the same article, due for 2013?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"100 mid-sized, long-range planes, the first of which it expects to receive in 2012, its vice chairman said."

"Airbus is offering its A350 XWB due in 2013 versus Boeing Co.'s 787 due in 2008 for a deal that could be worth $15 billion at list prices."

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 15:11:45 and read 18554 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
Emirates expects to take delivery of the first aircraft in 2012? How are they going to manage that if they choose the A350XWB, which is, according to the same article, due for 2013?

Well then it looks as if their decision is already made for them.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-24 15:13:48 and read 18539 times.

From the Reuters article linked by the threadstarter:

Quote:
...Flanagan [vice chairman of EK] said Emirates was not seeking a discount on the 100 planes from Airbus related to the A380 delay.

"We want to make those separate. We want to make sure there is no muddying the water between the cost of 100 and the compensation," he said...

"...We think they (other airlines such as Singapore Airlines) settled too early. We think in the next 2-3 months we should be clear to reach settlement and accept compensation," Flanagan said.

"There is no way we can plug the capacity gap or the profitability gap. The hit has been quite strong in terms of revenue, profitability, in terms of network..."

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2007-01-24 15:15:45 and read 18506 times.

"''We'll make our minds up on this order when we're entirely clear on what these models offer,'' he (Emirates Vice Chairman Flanagan) said. ''We're not clear on the A350 widebody yet. We expect a clear picture from Airbus in a few months.''"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=conews&tkr=BA:US&sid=awD0AG7VaAf4

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Danny
Posted 2007-01-24 15:24:23 and read 18381 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Well then it looks as if their decision is already made for them.

Not really - read below:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
"''We'll make our minds up on this order when we're entirely clear on what these models offer,'' he (Emirates Vice Chairman Flanagan) said. ''We're not clear on the A350 widebody yet. We expect a clear picture from Airbus in a few months.''"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...VaAf4

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-24 15:27:41 and read 18352 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Well then it looks as if their decision is already made for them.

Looks like it. It seems that Airbus has decided to speed up the development of the A350XWB, to get it out in time for EK to take delivery of them in 2012.  duck 

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 15:39:19 and read 18195 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
Looks like it. It seems that Airbus has decided to speed up the development of the A350XWB, to get it out in time for EK to take delivery of them in 2012.

Well if the past is any indicator the A350 won't be out anytime before 2015.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-24 15:47:50 and read 18117 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):

Well if the past is any indicator the A350 won't be out anytime before 2015.

The A350 is history, it wont even make 2015. The A350XWB on the other hand...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2007-01-24 15:51:24 and read 18081 times.

If this ends up happening (and by God they're taking their time!) will it be the biggest single order (by cost) in history?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 15:59:10 and read 17988 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 9):
The A350 is history, it wont even make 2015. The A350XWB on the other hand...

Different label, same outcome.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-24 16:04:45 and read 17906 times.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 10):
f this ends up happening (and by God they're taking their time!) will it be the biggest single order (by cost) in history?

Perhaps, if EK actually makes a firm order for 100 aircraft. My hunch is the "commitment" will be for 100 aircraft, but the firm order will probably be for 50 aircraft with options and/or purchase rights making up the balance.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Slz396
Posted 2007-01-24 16:09:21 and read 17853 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
My hunch is the "commitment" will be for 100 aircraft, but the firm order will probably be for 50 aircraft with options and/or purchase rights making up the balance

Indeed, my feelings exactly.

Besides, although 50 widebodies is not a small order, it is not really THAT impressive either and is needn't even be the single biggest WB order in 2007 (provided QR firms up its order for 60 A350s).

BTW- can anybody explain what the difference is between an option and a purchase right?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-24 16:16:23 and read 17766 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
can anybody explain what the difference is between an option and a purchase right?

Option: the option-holder has a right to a specified delivery slot, usually in the form of a "right of first refusal."
Purchase Right: the right-holder's delivery slot is determined at the time the purchase right is exercised.

[Edited 2007-01-24 16:21:06]

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Astuteman
Posted 2007-01-24 16:17:12 and read 17769 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
Perhaps, if EK actually makes a firm order for 100 aircraft. My hunch is the "commitment" will be for 100 aircraft, but the firm order will probably be for 50 aircraft with options and/or purchase rights making up the balance.

Bearing a passing resemblance to the QF order, in that case..........

Regards

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Slz396
Posted 2007-01-24 16:22:18 and read 17695 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 14):
Option: the option-holder has a right to a specified delivery slot, usually in the form of a "right of first refusal."
Purchase Right: the right-holder's deliver slot is determined at the time the purchase right is exercised.

So in fact a purchase right is a very loose commitment?

Just my personal view, but purchase rights are just a way to pump up the total order number in the press release really.... if you don't commit to a possible delivery date, there really isn't anything distinguishing you from any other potential future customer.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Brendows
Posted 2007-01-24 16:24:32 and read 17662 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 16):
Just my personal view, but purchase rights are just a way to pump up the total order number in the press release really.... if you don't commit to a possible delivery date, there really isn't anything distinguishing you from any other potential future customer.

I wouldn't say so, you still got a purchase price similar to the one you negotiated for the firm orders.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Slz396
Posted 2007-01-24 16:35:25 and read 17568 times.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 17):
I wouldn't say so, you still got a purchase price similar to the one you negotiated for the firm orders.

Are you sure about that?

Because since there is no date linked to the purchase right, you could execute the right in let's say 15 years from now (at what time the price you suggest is pre-set will be rediculously low)

One could argue you'd have a very loose indicative price range when you have a purchase right, but then any customer who wants to firmly order a similar number of planes as are currently being granted purchase rights on is virtually guaranteed of a 40%+ list price reduction as well...

I repeat myself: purchase rights are just an invention of an overly active PR machine to prop up the number of the commitment without having to take options (which cost money).

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: BillReid
Posted 2007-01-24 16:36:53 and read 17553 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
Emirates expects to take delivery of the first aircraft in 2012? How are they going to manage that if they choose the A350XWB, which is, according to the same article, due for 2013?

Sure sounds like a boeing decision has already been made.
I am sure skepticism exists, with the A350XWB givin that the financing to design in not yet in place with EADS. And the losses incurred by the A380.
Politically, the UAE government wants balance and thus it is Boeings turn for some significant orders.

I would be very very surprised with a A350 order given the polotics and the A380 fiasco.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2007-01-24 16:39:40 and read 17524 times.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 19):
Politically, the UAE government wants balance and thus it is Boeings turn for some significant orders.

56 copies of the T7 is pretty significant don't you think?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: BillReid
Posted 2007-01-24 16:58:16 and read 17341 times.

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 20):
56 copies of the T7 is pretty significant don't you think?

Good point. But the A380 has gotten more than its fair share of notariety, be it good or bad.

Boeing may sit in more favorable light given the A350 continous wavoring and the A380 debacle.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Dw747400
Posted 2007-01-24 17:12:41 and read 17060 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 18):
Because since there is no date linked to the purchase right, you could execute the right in let's say 15 years from now (at what time the price you suggest is pre-set will be rediculously low)

Long term deals like this are generally pegged to economic indicators to account for inflation and other price variations... I know from experience that some business jet manufacturers even peg their price for firm orders to the consumer price index.

Additionally, its perfectly reasonable to expect a time limit on the order. Options are definitely more than mere publicity stunts, though I'm not familiar enough with dealings on airliners to say exactly how much more!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Cobra27
Posted 2007-01-24 17:15:33 and read 17017 times.

I think has more chances because of its size 350 pax. Emirates likes bigger planes, they burn less. Seems they make a lot of money by the number of passengers (more then 400 in some 777-200ER) Even the enlarged 787 will only seat around 300 pax. But on the other way 787 will come way sooner, around 5 years before. Maybe they will order both

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-24 17:20:36 and read 16852 times.

The only way EK is going to get 100 787's starting in 2012 is if they already have slot deposits that they have been keeping up payments on while they wait for the A350/A350XWB program to evolve.

I'm not sure how one defines "mid-size", but I am guessing something in the A333/A343/A359X/787-9/787-10/772 range. However, "long range" negates the A333 and I cannot see EK taking the A343.

So that leaves the A350X-900, 787-9, 787-10, and 777-200LR. In theory, the three Boeing products are available in 2012 (the 772LR for sure, the 787-9 and 787-10 if EK has slots already in hand, with the additional caveat that Boeing can EIS the 787-10 in 2012).

EK may feel they can no longer wait to see what the A350XWB brings to the table as 787 slots continue to fill and will fill even faster if a successful test regimen happens this Summer.

However, EK can always add the A350XWB later (considering how fast they are expanding), so even if they do order the 787 in numbers up to 100, that doesn't mean the A350XWB will never fly in EK colors.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Keesje
Posted 2007-01-24 17:44:20 and read 16446 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Well then it looks as if their decision is already made for them.

Yes, wonder what Airbus can possibly do to solve this problem..


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Kaneporta1
Posted 2007-01-24 17:44:26 and read 17030 times.

This one could go either way. On one hand EK may not want to wait till 2013 for the 350, on the other hand it's not certain that Boeing can deliver much sooner, especially with the recently surfaced rumors about possible 787 delays.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: CV580Freak
Posted 2007-01-24 17:46:43 and read 16962 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
The only way EK is going to get 100 787's starting in 2012 is if they already have slot deposits that they have been keeping up payments on

When are the nearest delivery positions ???

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Scouseflyer
Posted 2007-01-24 17:51:17 and read 16927 times.

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 28):
When are the nearest delivery positions ???

That's a closely guarded secret - but there's over 400 787s on order and they're looking at something around 100 built a year initially at full chat that takes production through to mid 2012.....

Health warning figures are very approx and the rate is variable and not everyone wants their frames asap!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 17:57:32 and read 16736 times.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 26):
Yes, wonder what Airbus can possibly do to solve this problem..

Heck if they need interim lift then they could always use the 77W. That type is becoming more prevalent in their fleet.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2007-01-24 18:14:18 and read 16401 times.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 26):
Yes, wonder what Airbus can possibly do to solve this problem..

Given they are looking for a 300 seater and EK's 2-class A330's have 284 seats, that might solve one of their situations....the 3-class A330's have 237 seats, I don't know how they will solve that situation...

[Edited 2007-01-24 18:14:47]

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 18:54:56 and read 15602 times.

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 27):
When are the nearest delivery positions ???

Well... NEW delivery slots aren't available until 2014. I would wager EK already has slots lined up if they are talking delivery in 2012 and those would be 787's, A350 won't be ready then. 2013 is gone... sold out. So someone (aside from EK, not saying...) has a huge set of slots already...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 18:57:31 and read 15542 times.

Am I the only one that thinks they will order both?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-24 19:04:06 and read 15381 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 32):
Am I the only one that thinks they will order both?

IIRC, both Tim Clark and Sheik Maktoum have rule-out spliting this order a la SQ in several interviews over the last few months.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2007-01-24 19:04:45 and read 15380 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 32):
Am I the only one that thinks they will order both?

Considering the vice-chairman of EK Flanagan stated "probably only one type", you are going to be in a small minority..... Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 19:06:18 and read 15345 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 32):
Am I the only one that thinks they will order both?

I thought so at first... but i think its less and less likely. It all depends on if they have slots already at Boeing. If they do they will take all Boeing. If not another airline may already have eaten up a huge amount of slots that will squash EK getting anything before 2014 for 787's and they may take a split order. EK has been burned bad by Airbus so we'll see. But from snippets floating around its supposed to be all from one company (Boeing would be the obvious choice here i think).

The 1H'07 will be an amazing time for the 787...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 19:07:23 and read 15340 times.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 33):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 32):
Am I the only one that thinks they will order both?

IIRC, both Tim Clark and Sheik Maktoum have rule-out spliting this order a la SQ in several interviews over the last few months.

Which would be a great way to reduce the initial price from the manufacturers. Let them fight it out, then order 50 of one and 50 of the other at a later date. It not like EK can get sued for doing this!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 19:10:18 and read 15276 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 35):
It all depends on if they have slots already at Boeing. If they do they will take all Boeing

So why are they looking for an offer from airbus? Either they have slots on 787s and are looking at getting A350s aswell, or they have no 787 slots.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 19:20:46 and read 15053 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 37):
So why are they looking for an offer from airbus? Either they have slots on 787s and are looking at getting A350s aswell, or they have no 787 slots.

They may have slots but not firm orders... you can still negotiate prices after you own a slot. Pressure on Boeing... EK knows the business. They could be doing just to see if Boeing will speed up the line, open a second... anything. Its called bluffing...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EbbUK
Posted 2007-01-24 19:34:21 and read 14817 times.

I would be very happy to see the EK order go to Boeing. Curiously, I think the way that EK want separate compensation for 380 makes me think that the order is going Stateside. Well, they deserve it.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: ZRHnerd
Posted 2007-01-24 19:39:35 and read 14746 times.

If EK will commit to the A350, i can see the "they got them for half the price"-kinda comments already  duck 

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 19:46:28 and read 14560 times.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 40):
If EK will commit to the A350, i can see the "they got them for half the price"-kinda comments already

Nah would never happen  Smile

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 38):
Its called bluffing...

So is 'we will only buy one or the other'!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: ZRHnerd
Posted 2007-01-24 19:49:43 and read 14523 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 41):
Nah would never happen

Looking at all the die-hard boeing fans on this website i can hardly believe that Big grin

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 19:56:23 and read 14379 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 41):
So is 'we will only buy one or the other'!

Could be.  Wink But i doubt it... i think we will see EK order 787-9/10's come early this summer.

Saying something that could be considered fact and to be bluffing about it could turn the person/organization into liars, not good for business. Just comparing offers shows good business sense as they are trying to get a better deal, even if they never truely had an intent to buy the other product.

PS- I'm still shocked that no one is talking about the other less public but HUGE order pending for this year... Exciting times...

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 19:59:35 and read 14308 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 43):
PS- I'm still shocked that no one is talking about the other less public but HUGE order pending for this year... Exciting times...

Oh I think that'll be talked up as we get closer to June and Paris!  

[Edited 2007-01-24 20:10:00]

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 20:03:56 and read 14202 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 44):
Oh I think that'll be taked up as we get closer to June and Paris!

Yeah... you are probably right. My mistake...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 20:08:42 and read 14091 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 43):
PS- I'm still shocked that no one is talking about the other less public but HUGE order pending for this year... Exciting times...

Which one, BA?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 20:11:08 and read 14046 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 46):
Which one, BA?

I wish i could say... really...

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NYC777
Posted 2007-01-24 20:11:14 and read 14070 times.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 46):
Which one, BA?

No, it's an order by a North American carrier. Very large order for 787s.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 20:14:16 and read 13963 times.

DL or AA both are obvious 787 customers!

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2007-01-24 20:20:10 and read 13838 times.

I think we will see a lot of orders in the first half for the 787 (and of course, others too). I can see the 747-8 and 787-9/10 combination becoming quite popular and would put EK, CX and BA in that category.

However, the big ones this year (although not necessarily in the first half) could be the US carriers. AA had its first full year of profitability since 2000 and of course, once consolidation takes place in the US (I'm betting on CO/UA and DL/NW), we will see some 787 orders.

Maybe we might even see EI place an order.

I often get the feeling that most airlines are pleased with the A350XWB not really because they want to buy it (although I hope some will), but because the old (warmed over A330) version of the A350 wasn't a plausible aircraft to use in negotiations with Boeing; the new A350 is and you can be sure the likes of EK will be playing each side mercilessly - and indeed, other carriers will do the same.

I could see Lufthansa ordering the A350, but having already ordered 748s, I still think (barring politics!) that the 787-9/10 are the most likely choices.

Other orders I'm looking forward to this year:
BA 747-8, 773ER, 787-9/10
CX 747-8, 787-9/10
QF 787-9/10 (well, they have a lot of options)
SQ 787-10 (likewise)
EI 787-9/10 (could be A350-900/1000; at this stage, either will do)
UA 787-8/9/10 (ultimately, could be all three)
CI 747-8
NZ 773ER

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-24 20:23:28 and read 13769 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 43):
I'm still shocked that no one is talking about the other less public but HUGE order pending for this year... Exciting times...

If you mean LH, we've been discussing it a great deal, just not lately.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 20:27:29 and read 13700 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 51):
If you mean LH, we've been discussing it a great deal, just not lately.

no... not them.  Smile

What is the latest on the LH order anyways? I haven't heard anything new... whats the latest rumor churning?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-24 20:29:28 and read 13657 times.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 52):
What is the latest on the LH order anyways? I haven't heard anything new... whats the latest rumor churning?

I thought March or so, but maybe they'll wait till LBG this summer.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Leelaw
Posted 2007-01-24 20:32:26 and read 13628 times.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 50):
CX 747-8, 787-9/10

See: Interview With Philip Chen CEO Cathay Pacific (by Leelaw Jan 24 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-24 20:36:31 and read 13520 times.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 50):
EI 787-9/10 (could be A350-900/1000; at this stage, either will do)

I doubt EI will order either any of these his year. We could be looking at just more A332's for years to come. Dont think they will need A350-1000s either.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 20:45:44 and read 13423 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 53):
I thought March or so, but maybe they'll wait till LBG this summer.

I wonder if it will all come out at Paris... "undisclosed airline", LH & EK all at once. Maybe 250 aircraft? Wow... $40bil+ in orders all at once... covering the whole 787 program i'd say and more (-3/8/9 and launch for -10).

Just a hunch...  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Christopherwoo
Posted 2007-01-24 21:02:39 and read 13100 times.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 19):
would be very very surprised with a A350 order given the polotics and the A380 fiasco

I'm sorry but some people are intelligent enough to figure out they are different aircraft. For all the airbus 380 bashing... It's one of the biggest aircraft ever built. They had problems with it, and large problems too but it wasn't entirely unexpected due to the size of the project. The A380 is an amazing piece of engineering, im sure no-one can deny that. I know Airbus failed in the way they handled the situation but this should make airlines more confident as its a tough lesson they have learnt.
There is a difference between making one, if not the biggest (don't know) civil aircraft ever made and making the A350. Airbus had never made an airplane of that magnitude (A380) before. The A350XWB is much more in their backyard! To come to the conclusion that the A350XWB will be a failure and that airlines waiting for the 380 won't order it, just on the basis of the problems with the A380 is just idiocy.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 21:12:28 and read 12913 times.

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 57):
They had problems with it, and large problems too but it wasn't entirely unexpected due to the size of the project.

I would beg to differ... if Airbus expected problems like this they wouldn't have set the timeline they did. The aircraft is two years delayed because they didn't expect problems of this magnitude. Don't get me wrong... its a huge project but maybe they did bite off more than they could chew that quickly.

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 57):
The A350XWB is much more in their backyard! To come to the conclusion that the A350XWB will be a failure and that airlines waiting for the 380 won't order it, just on the basis of the problems with the A380 is just idiocy.

I agree the A350X probably will be fine but that doesn't change the dwindling confidence customers have in Airbus to complete a project on time because of the severity of how that have handled the A380.
I think the A350 will gain many orders once its completed and flying but probably won't have a HUGE amount of orders when it gets off the ground. When the confidence the customers have in them is built back up they will be fine... but that will take years. Even Airbus themselves have said that.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Glideslope
Posted 2007-01-24 21:26:14 and read 12660 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 8):
Well if the past is any indicator the A350 won't be out anytime before 2015.

I disagree. I see the 1st low speed taxi tests easily by late 2015.  spin 

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Beech19
Posted 2007-01-24 21:40:27 and read 12398 times.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 59):
I disagree. I see the 1st low speed taxi tests easily by late 2015.

Oh now come on... lets be serious; i'll give them late 2014.  Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Molykote
Posted 2007-01-25 01:56:07 and read 9898 times.

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 57):
There is a difference between making one, if not the biggest (don't know) civil aircraft ever made and making the A350. Airbus had never made an airplane of that magnitude (A380) before. The A350XWB is much more in their backyard!

My inclination would be to believe that the A350 would throw more unknowns into the mix than the (relatively conventional A380).

Few people have access to real technical data on this airplane (I am not one of these few). From what I can tell, however, the A380 is a very large version of a conventional airliner. I am not saying that meaningful technical advances weren't made during the A380 program, but apart from size nothing strikes me as "revolutionary" about the A380.

This should not be taken as a knock on Airbus as I am sure the A380 was developed with the best mix of economy and cutting edge technology that made sense at that time (ditto other high value airliners).

To the best of my knowledge, none of the A380 delays can be attributed to hiccups with new revolutionary developments.......

..... after all, CATIA v4 has been on the market for a while!  duck 

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Christopherwoo
Posted 2007-01-25 02:03:12 and read 9841 times.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 61):
the A380 is a very large version of a conventional airliner

Most of the problems they had were to do with its sheer size (wing wasn't tough enough, wake problems, wiring because it was so big) etc

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-25 02:07:49 and read 9806 times.

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 62):
Quoting Molykote (Reply 61):
the A380 is a very large version of a conventional airliner

Most of the problems they had were to do with its sheer size (wing wasn't tough enough, wake problems, wiring because it was so big) etc

Add to that the abilities of many airports to accomodate it.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: T773ER
Posted 2007-01-25 02:09:15 and read 9816 times.

With the 787-10 yet to be officially launched, what are the chances of Boeing launching the 787-10 with a large order from EK on the very same day?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: RICARIZA
Posted 2007-01-25 02:18:48 and read 9704 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
There seem to be a few errors in the article. The deal is valued US$15 billion at listprice. Both the 787 (except the 783) and the A350XWB are more then US$150 million a piece IIRC, 100 of them would result in more then US$15 billion

Dude, 100 x 150million = 15 billion, the article is correct.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EI321
Posted 2007-01-25 02:22:54 and read 9654 times.

Quoting T773ER (Reply 64):
With the 787-10 yet to be officially launched, what are the chances of Boeing launching the 787-10 with a large order from EK on the very same day?

Chances are that when it is launched, it will be accompanied by a large launch order by an airline like Emirates.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 02:35:51 and read 9551 times.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 65):
Dude,

I'd appriciated if you left out 'Dude' in the future. Thanks.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 65):

Dude, 100 x 150million = 15 billion, the article is correct.

Nothing wrong with the math, assuming the listprice is US$150 million. What I was saying is that the listprive isn't US$150 million.

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
The deal is valued US$15 billion at listprice. Both the 787 (except the 783) and the A350XWB are more then US$150 million a piece IIRC, 100 of them would result in more then US$15 billion

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-25 03:40:36 and read 9030 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 2):
The deal is valued US$15 billion at listprice. Both the 787 (except the 783) and the A350XWB are more then US$150 million a piece IIRC,

The 787-8 can be purchased for just south of $150 million US per http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 04:18:18 and read 8756 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 68):

The 787-8 can be purchased for just south of $150 million US per http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/.

Yes Stitch (thanks for the link). But EK would no doubt go for the largest variant available. The 789 or, if Boeing is willing to commit, the 787-10.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-25 04:26:32 and read 8682 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 69):
But EK would no doubt go for the largest variant available. The 789 or, if Boeing is willing to commit, the 787-10.

I agree, but I wonder if they might want some (but certainly not 100) 787-8s for some special long and thin routes.

Of course, maybe the journalist just saw the 787-8 price and either just used it or they did not realize that EK would most likely want the larger 787-9 and 787-10.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2007-01-25 04:42:33 and read 8551 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 69):

Yes Stitch (thanks for the link). But EK would no doubt go for the largest variant available. The 789 or, if Boeing is willing to commit, the 787-10.

which still doesn't address this issue...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):

Given they are looking for a 300 seater and EK's 2-class A330's have 284 seats, that might solve one of their situations....the 3-class A330's have 237 seats, I don't know how they will solve that situation...

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: ER757
Posted 2007-01-25 04:48:54 and read 8522 times.

I have always thought, and still do, that this order will go to Airbus. Just a gut feeling. I think this would actually be a win-win for both A&B. Before you question my sanity, hear me out. If Airbus gets the order, that's obviously a huge boost for the company as a whole and the 350XWB program in particular.
Now on the Boeing side, they can sell those 100 frames in chunks of 20 or 25, at a higher per-frame margin to other blue-chip airlines that are almost certain to want the 787 in quantity (AA, DL, UA, possibly BA) and not have to make them wait as long as they would had EK popped for 100. It works out for everyone.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-25 05:43:53 and read 8232 times.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 72):
I have always thought, and still do, that this order will go to Airbus. Just a gut feeling. I think this would actually be a win-win for both A&B.

With EK's growth pattern, 100 planes could be just the beginning. Over the life of the program, the total could be many multiples of that.

I am sure Boeing is happy to have sold over 448 787s to up to 40 customers.

But I am sure they'd be equally happy to sell that many to one. As would Airbus.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: AA777223
Posted 2007-01-25 05:47:28 and read 8207 times.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 65):
Dude, 100 x 150million = 15 billion, the article is correct.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I am assuming the article is based on list prices....Dude....there I said it.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: AirLanka
Posted 2007-01-25 05:49:12 and read 8187 times.

Wonder whether part of this is destined for SriLankan. They urgently need to get their fleet renewal in place to ensure business continuity.

Cheers,

Airlanka

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 06:53:19 and read 7890 times.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 13):
BTW- can anybody explain what the difference is between an option and a purchase right?

I'm late to this thread, but in case it hasn't been answered previously, in a nut shell, option guarantees price and delivery date/slot, purchase right guarantees the price only, delivery is still subject to availability of slots at the time the right is exercised.

Hope this helps.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 06:54:42 and read 7883 times.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
Well then it looks as if their decision is already made for them.

Not necessarily. The order can be a combined order, starting with 787 deliveries in 2012, complemented by A350. I can very well see a 787-9R/-10 combined with an A350XWB-1000.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 07:12:18 and read 7785 times.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 61):
My inclination would be to believe that the A350 would throw more unknowns into the mix than the (relatively conventional A380).

I agree. The A380 was designed and developed on Airbus' terms. They had no time presure to launch. They had no competitor in the market the closest thing was the 747-400 (15 years older and 35% smaller), they used conventional technology for the most part.

The A350 is being designed and developed not on Airbus' terms, but by a forced reaction to the 787. They went through multiple rushed and ultimately rejected designs trying to use more conventional technology. They are pressed on time (need to respond before Boeing locks in the entire 767/A330 replacement). They are pressed on technology (need to use composites to a greater extent then they are comfortable). They are facing a fierce competititor in the 787.

The potential for Airbus to make large mistakes is much greater on the A350 than on the A380. As far as I can tell, Airbus made a single serious design mistake on the A388 (making the wings/structure too heavy contemplating an A389) and one configuration mistake (allowing too much airline custumization). Obviously there are the well documented CATIA incompatibilities and wiring mess on the mannufacturing side.

On top of it all, Airbus is short on cash (A380 cashflow impact), trying to implement severe cost cutting (Power 8), updating their IT infrastructure (CATIA, etc), moving production around, etc.

I see red flags everywhere for the A350 program. Airbus better bring the A-team and put on the A-game or they will fraq this up big time.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 07:17:11 and read 7756 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 67):
What I was saying is that the listprive isn't US$150 million.



Quoting Manni (Reply 69):
Yes Stitch (thanks for the link). But EK would no doubt go for the largest variant available. The 789 or, if Boeing is willing to commit, the 787-10.

Mani, IIRC Boeing's list prices include engines and other third-party items (standard interior ???). Remove those for the 789 and US$150M is in the right ballpark, so the order for Boeing will be in the neighborhood onf US$15B list, US$11B or so actual? Yes?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 07:24:29 and read 7704 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 73):
But I am sure they'd be equally happy to sell that many to one.

Not so, Stitch. Boeing for sure, and Airbus likely, are very concerned about the quality of their backlog. Boeing would be extremelly nervous, if, to use your example, all 448 787s on order were from a single airline. The risk needle would be off the chart.

Lets say 448 787 order is from AA (largest carrier in the world). AA goes CH11 or another event like the one 5 and 1/2 years ago (God forbid) happens - boom all cancelled at once.

Diversity is generally good. Diversify when you invest in the stock market, diversify when you sell planes, heck, some people even like to diversify when it comes to opposite sex relationships - though I'm not sure that last one is a sound financial decision  Smile

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 11:11:33 and read 6297 times.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 74):
I was thinking the exact same thing.

Then you too should reread my post instead of correcting it.
I wasn't arguing that 100 times US$150 million is US$15 billion, I'm argueing wether US$150 million is about the listprice for a 787 or A350XWB. Apparently some models of the 787 can be bought for that amount of money, but arguably not those that would qualify for EK. The A350XWB's listprice isn't even close from a far distance.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 74):
I am assuming the article is based on list prices...

There's nothing to assume. The article mentioned that clearly.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 74):
Dude....there I said it.

How brave!  Yeah sure

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 79):
IIRC Boeing's list prices include engines and other third-party items (standard interior ???). Remove those for the 789 and US$150M is in the right ballpark,

Understood. However since we're talking listprice here (and the engines are apparently included in the listprice), why remove the value of the engines from the listprice?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-25 11:15:11 and read 6260 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 81):
Understood. However since we're talking listprice here (and the engines are apparently included in the listprice), why remove the value of the engines from the listprice?

You have a point - plus I don't think a reporter would be that sophisticated to start removing items and doing the math. They just heard/saw that a 787 goes for $150 mil and did back of the envelope math.

By the way, what was the largest single order (in $$$ value) for commercial airliners ever placed? Would the TWA/Connies or PanAM 747 if adjusted for inflation rank high? Where would this one rank if it were indeed for 100 firm 787s?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-01-25 11:21:18 and read 6235 times.

Is it just me or does Emirates sound like a client from hell? Everytime I hear their CEO running his mouth I just wonder if he's that much of a windbag face to face. In business some of the best deals you make are the ones you let walk out your door to your competitor.

When I have an uber demanding client I usually add 5% or 10% to my bid. If they go somewhere else great. If they decide to go with me, I at least smile knowing I'm going to make a nice above average margin on my services.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NAV20
Posted 2007-01-25 14:14:30 and read 5139 times.

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 83):
Is it just me or does Emirates sound like a client from hell?

Guess they are - but Airbus appears to be the supplier from purgatory.

This appears to account for 12 of the 100 orders - extra 777-300ERs (a direct result of the A380 delays, according to Emirates):-

"Thursday, January 25, 2007 - A380 delays cost Airbus more business
Emirates will buy 12 Boeing 777s - By WILL MCSHEEHY AND MASSOUD A. DERHALLY, BLOOMBERG NEWS

"Emirates, the biggest Arab airline, plans to order an additional 12 Boeing Co. 777- 300ERs valued at $3 billion because of the delays on the Airbus A380 superjumbo jet, Vice Chairman Maurice Flanagan said in an interview Wednesday.

"We've ordered 54 777- 300ERs already to help us plug the gap left by the A380 on routes like New York, Sydney and Melbourne," Flanagan said in Davos, Switzerland. "We're now going to order 12 more 777-300ERs for delivery hopefully in 2008 for the same reason."


Flanagan appears to be seriously annoyed with Airbus:-

"The Boeing order is "imminent," Flanagan said. The A380 delay also affects the airline's plans to fly to St. Petersburg, Russia; Kiev, Ukraine; and Madrid and Barcelona, Spain. Emirates is seeking compensation to make up for the revenue lost through the delays.

"We won't be modest in our demands," Flanagan said. "When we get our first A380, we should have had 18; (it's) a huge hit on the airline and on its revenue producing capability."


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/301047_emiratesboeing25.html

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: PanAmOldDC8
Posted 2007-01-25 14:24:56 and read 5029 times.

Quoting UAL777UK (Thread starter):
Jeez, these guys are expanding like nothing

Just hope they don't expand too quickly as happened to Wardair in Canada, they went and bought a lot of new airplanes and couldn't pay for them or fill them, then they went belly up. Always thoughtful about airlines expanding too fast, worries me

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 14:27:23 and read 5031 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 84):
"Thursday, January 25, 2007 - A380 delays cost Airbus more business
Emirates will buy 12 Boeing 777s - By WILL MCSHEEHY AND MASSOUD A. DERHALLY, BLOOMBERG NEWS

"Emirates, the biggest Arab airline, plans to order an additional 12 Boeing Co. 777- 300ERs valued at $3 billion because of the delays on the Airbus A380 superjumbo jet, Vice Chairman Maurice Flanagan said in an interview Wednesday.

For the time being this report is being denied by Emirates.

http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Aviation/10099339.html

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Astuteman
Posted 2007-01-25 14:30:17 and read 4997 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 84):
The A380 delay also affects the airline's plans to fly to St. Petersburg, Russia; Kiev, Ukraine; and Madrid and Barcelona, Spain

These are the places they're planning to fly the A380 to???

Regards

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: RichardPrice
Posted 2007-01-25 14:32:52 and read 4983 times.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 87):

These are the places they're planning to fly the A380 to???

The A380 would have freed up equipment to fly to those places.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2007-01-25 14:43:49 and read 4886 times.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 77):
Not necessarily. The order can be a combined order, starting with 787 deliveries in 2012, complemented by A350. I can very well see a 787-9R/-10 combined with an A350XWB-1000.

Of course while no situation is static, according to the Bloomberg video interview with Flanagan, he said that it's going in one direction...

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 83):
Is it just me or does Emirates sound like a client from hell? Everytime I hear their CEO running his mouth I just wonder if he's that much of a windbag face to face. In business some of the best deals you make are the ones you let walk out your door to your competitor.

Sure, and they well should be..if you were ordering 50+ $250 million dollar planes,as well as 43+ $300 million dollar planes (not to mention all of the $ billions of dollars in planes the past 15 years), to top it off, another 100 plane order for a $150+ million dollar plane..wouldn't be you be the client from 'ell?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: NAV20
Posted 2007-01-25 14:49:26 and read 4836 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 86):
For the time being this report is being denied by Emirates.

They probably don't want Boeing taking the hint and adding a nought or two to the asking prices.  Smile

I'd hate to be on the Airbus end of the compensation negotiations. You can just imagine what sort of huge net revenue loss estimates EK are coming up with - and they'll be very difficult to argue against, EK HAS been growing fast........

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 14:58:07 and read 4765 times.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 82):
By the way, what was the largest single order (in $$$ value) for commercial airliners ever placed? Would the TWA/Connies or PanAM 747 if adjusted for inflation rank high? Where would this one rank if it were indeed for 100 firm 787s?

Interesting question. I have no idea. ANA's order for 50 787s would be one of the contenders for largest single order in $ value IMO, altough 30 of them are for the cheaper 783 , perhaps QF's 45 frames order is more valuable. PanAm placed an order for 25 747's.

EK placed an order for 23 A380s in 2003 aswell as 10 A346s at the same moment. We know now that these A346s will never be delivered to Emirates, altough rumours are that EK placed them elsewhere. So can we still consider this to be one order?

There's also the commitment from China for 150 A32S and 20 A350XWB's, of which the 150 A32S have been firmed up. If QR ever converts their A350 commitment to a A350XWB commitment and firms up this commitment, that might be the most valuable single order ever. Unless EK do indeed place a firm order for 100 aircraft, or FWIW atleast 61 aircraft of a similar value as those of QR.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-25 15:01:24 and read 4744 times.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 90):
They probably don't want Boeing taking the hint and adding a nought or two to the asking prices.

Sure. Perhaps Mr. Al Makhtoum should give Mr. Flanagan the sack for dropping the hint anyway.  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-01-25 15:14:02 and read 4695 times.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 80):
Not so, Stitch. Boeing for sure, and Airbus likely, are very concerned about the quality of their backlog. Boeing would be extremely nervous, if, to use your example, all 448 787s on order were from a single airline. The risk needle would be off the chart.

Yes, but EK is unlikely to order 400 planes in one fell swoop.  Smile

If EK choose the 787, they'd order 100 to begin with. Would that be 100 firm orders, or a QF-like ~50 firm orders and 50 "firm options"? And even if it was 100 firm orders, that's only around double what NH and QF ordered and unlikely to be taken in serial production. That 100 would be the first part of an A332/A333/A343/772ER replacement order and as such would be delivered over probably five or more years.

EK ordered 5 A388s in April 2000, then 15 more in November 2001, 21 in June 2003 and two more (conversions from A388F) in May 2006.

So EK would order 100 in 2007 and then order another 300, in batches of probably around 25 or so, over the next 15-20 years to replace their A333, A343, A346, 772ER, 772LR (assuming the 787LR launches) and 773ER (assuming the 787-11 launches).

As such, the amount of the order backlog dedicated to them would be smaller and if EK suddenly went belly-up, Boeing would not be sitting on scores of whitetails nor would they have so many production slots tied up with EK that they would drive everyone else into Airbus' and the A350XWB's arms.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: AA777223
Posted 2007-01-25 15:56:18 and read 4604 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 81):

Calm down. I read your post. it was just a joke.

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: RICARIZA
Posted 2007-01-25 16:34:22 and read 4515 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 67):
I'd appriciated if you left out 'Dude' in the future. Thanks

Sorry, can't do, that's the way I "talk".

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 74):
I was thinking the exact same thing. I am assuming the article is based on list prices....Dude....there I said it

 Wink

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: T773ER
Posted 2007-01-25 22:02:33 and read 4303 times.

Quoting Manni (Reply 91):
By the way, what was the largest single order (in $$$ value) for commercial airliners ever placed? Would the TWA/Connies or PanAM 747 if adjusted for inflation rank high? Where would this one rank if it were indeed for 100 firm 787s?

On United's website, it states that they had a 22 billion dollar order in 1990, the largest ever. Approximately 32.721 billion adjusted for inflation. Of course this is all according to United.

http://www.united.com/page/middlepage/0,6823,2293,00.html

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Baron95
Posted 2007-01-26 04:40:15 and read 4062 times.

Quoting T773ER (Reply 96):
On United's website, it states that they had a 22 billion dollar order in 1990, the largest ever. Approximately 32.721 billion adjusted for inflation. Of course this is all according to United.

I'm assuming that is the 777 order right?

Topic: RE: Emirates To Order 100 Planes Shortly
Username: Manni
Posted 2007-01-26 04:52:16 and read 4039 times.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 97):
I'm assuming that is the 777 order right?

United placed an order for 16 772s and 7 744s on october the 15th. The value mentioned on their website probably includes options etc, as these 23 aircraft are no where near US$22 billion worth in 2006 dollars and certainly not in 1990 dollars.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/