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Topic: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2000-11-18 18:57:08 and read 2382 times.

I was wondering when US airports will start to see this beautiful aircraft. I saw my first -300 in Hong Kong this summer. With the ER version on its way, do you expect the US to be getting some visits? Or possibly any US airlines buying the -300ER?

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Jderden777
Posted 2000-11-18 19:02:11 and read 2302 times.

i don't know exactly when but i've heard rumors and talk on this forum about UAL and Delta buying 777-300s..i don't know whether this is true or not...but yes, the 773 is a beautiful aircraft, and it's HUGE!!!   i saw one 2 years ago (july 1999) at Boeing Field...it was in Boeing's house colors. no pictures though  , i just happened to be driving by...

jderden777

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2000-11-18 19:05:29 and read 2288 times.

I'd say the most likely in the short term is Korean Air, which currently operates 773s to Sydney (i.e. it could make the transpacific trip) and it currently flies 772s to Toronto and SF.

In the long term, 2 European carriers - AF and AZ - will definitely bring there aircraft across the Atlantic; BA and KLM are likely 777 customers, so expect to see them too. JAL and ANA will more than likely get 773LRs as well, so expect to see them flying over here.

As for US carriers, I'd expect to see United at least go the full length and American and CO would probably follow suit, not sure about Delta - but wishful thinking hasn't ever been a problem for me!

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: MEL
Posted 2000-11-18 20:04:14 and read 2258 times.

Probably when airlines like ANA start using the 773ERs on routes from NRT to places like ORD or SFO. Also, we may see AF use their 773s on routes to JFK/EWR, when they arrive.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Soku39
Posted 2000-11-18 21:19:36 and read 2234 times.

Im hoping to see AA UAL order a few of the -300 to add to there growing fleet of -200. Those are the two I would prabably guess and maybe Delta and CO

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Cba
Posted 2000-11-18 21:36:34 and read 2217 times.

UAL will most likely order them. DL and AA will probably order the 777-300ER for their higher capacity asian routes. CO may eventually order it, but they don't need its capacity right now. They will most likely order -200LRs to expand into Asia from EWR and IAH.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Blink182
Posted 2000-11-18 22:20:16 and read 2204 times.

You can see it in the US this minute(go to boeing field where they are being built!)  I think AA and UA may be the first US operators to fly it, I think the first service will be AF or an asian airline.
rgds,
blink182

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2000-11-19 01:13:51 and read 2167 times.

With the exclusive engine deal with GE to have only the GE90 on the new 777-300ER model, I don't see current RR Trent and P&W 777 operators like United and American in the future purchasing this aircraft. Don't be surprised if they go to Airbus and select the A330-200/300 and A340-500/600 with P&W and RR Trent engines.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Cactusa319
Posted 2000-11-19 01:20:23 and read 2158 times.


My bet is that we'll see AF's 773's here first, probably at EWR or one of the Northeast destinations. Korean could also be a possability.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Mr.BA
Posted 2000-11-19 01:26:40 and read 2146 times.

I think Korean Air will fly their B777-300s... to SFO/LAX in the future...

Alvin  

Topic: RE: Wishihadalife
Username: Ahlfors
Posted 2000-11-19 01:27:03 and read 2151 times.

Sorry, but AirTran has not announced any plans to buy a 777 and I highly doubt they will. They will fly the 717 to Grand Bahama Island.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2000-11-19 01:33:21 and read 2135 times.

Tedski, I highly doubt either UA or AA will ever go for the A330, or A340. UA was the launch customer for the 777, and I highly doubt that they will be switching and entire aircraft type, merely for the engines.They have too much of a stake in the 777, owning the worlds largest fleet of them, to go adding a whole new type of aircraft. It would be more costly to switch aircraft than service different engines. You have to have different maintenance equipment, different maintenence training, different flight training, different facilities. It changes too many things to change aircraft.

Yes, AA did put up a fuss about the 777LR and its GE engines, but I will bet you money they will go for the 777LR. If I recal correctly, BA was an all RR airline, but they were the launch customer for the GE engines on the 777.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: DesertJets
Posted 2000-11-19 01:59:01 and read 2125 times.

I really believe it will be a long time before we see any US airline flying a 773 in their colors. They simply don't need the capacity. AA runs their 777s in the thinnest config of them all. If they needed the capacity they fit more than 240 seats in them. UA is the only airline that could use the capacity, but then they have 44 747-400s should they need 100 extra seats on a plane.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: N-156F
Posted 2000-11-19 02:09:23 and read 2123 times.

I don't think any American airlines will go for the B777-300 for some time, as none of them are huge users of GE engines, and most seem very happy with the B777-200.
AF will likely start flying them to the U.S., as will Korean. They'll get here, it's just a matter of time.

Topic: UAL747
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2000-11-19 03:01:30 and read 2113 times.

British Airways was indeed the launch customer for the GE90 on the 777, but on their last batch of 777-200ERs they ordered from Boeing, they went for the RR Trent 800 series. In another forum so time ago, someone said an engineer from BA stated that the GE90 was a poorly designed engine with many problems.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2000-11-19 03:10:12 and read 2107 times.

That really is irrelevant to the topic. The point I was trying to make was that BA selected their 777 fleet at first with GE90s, not RR. Thus, it shows that the engine isn't the most important thing when choosing an aircraft. BA had a large fleet of Boeing widebodies; hence, it wanted to stay with Boeing for widebodies. They chose the aircraft with GE engines for some reason, showing that engine commonality may not be as important as you think it is and that similar aircraft type is important. This is why AA and UA might chose the 777-300ER with GE engines as well. Again, UA and especially AA will not go Airbus. I'll bet you money on it.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Kiwi dave
Posted 2000-11-19 09:15:27 and read 2066 times.

If Air New Zealand were to get any from Singapore the west coast of the USA would see them as Air New Zealand would fly them thru the pacific island to the USA.

Topic: RE: There Is Mrkt For 773 In N. America
Username: Red Panda
Posted 2000-11-19 09:45:27 and read 2063 times.

I can see that there is market for 773 in N. America. Most trans-alantic routes now being flown by 742 can be run by 773 too since 742 and 773 has similar pax capacity and range. 773 is a good a/c to replace older 742 flying tans-alantic routes.

Best Regards  ,
R Panda

Topic: Engines And Commonalty
Username: AFa340-300E
Posted 2000-11-19 10:19:36 and read 2057 times.

Hello,

Engines and commonalty


One precision first: BA chose to the Rolls-Royce Trent 895 as powerplant for its latest 777-200ERs not for the fun of switching from aircraft manufacturer.
The GE90 has had some troubles during its earliest operations, but that's not the reason why BA switched - and AZ, CO, AF, ... haven't reported any troble AFAIK.

- In fact BA switched orders from R.B211-powered 747-400s to 777s. The options selected was to convert the RB.211 order into a Trent 800 one. Otherwise the airline would have lost most of its funds already placed for the RR orders.

- Also, British Airways had been requiring an engine with a thrust over 92,000lb, what GE refused to do - but eventually did with the GE90-94B.

- In the 1990s, when BA ordered the GE90, this made a huge wave of protest in the UK. With Richard Branson pushing with his European Airbuses (he had first thought about ordering 8 Boeing 777s), BA found this as a good opportunity to move in the "good direction" ("good" according to the general opinion).

Even if the engine commonalty isn't as important as the airframe commonalty for many reasons (crew management, type rating, ...) it remains an important factor. But it also based on the performance achived by the engine for the particular mission.

So, to be clear, it's nonsense to say United Airlines' fleet plans will be affected as some people say because of the sole supplier deal with General Electric Aircraft Engines.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Raggi
Posted 2000-11-19 12:57:44 and read 2048 times.

some said that AA was not a major customer of GE engines ..how about 35 A300s and 60-70 767s, all remaing MD11s and DC10s, all powered by the GE CF6..
Eventually AA ( and UA ) will by GE powered 777s. just wait and see..

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2000-11-19 14:33:02 and read 2035 times.

Here's the question: how long is the exclusive deal with Boeing for the GE90-115B engines on the 777LR's?

My guess is that once GE's deal runs out both AA and UA may start ordering the 777LR. That means we may eventually see 777-300ER's powered by 115,000 to 120,000 lb. versions of the PW4100 and Rolls-Royce Trent engines. Both airlines can use the capacity since AA's routes to South America and UA's routes to Asia tend to be extremely busy.

By the way, there may be a wildcard equation in all this: Northwest. If NW is willing to upgrade their maintainance procedures to ETOPS standards, they could end up buying the 777-300ER to replace their 747-200 fleet. That means NW may start flying the 773ER from SEA, SFO, MSP and DTW to Asian destinations. And there won't be worries about engines since NW already has the facilities to work on GE engines thanks to their DC-10 fleet.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Na
Posted 2000-11-19 16:54:34 and read 2021 times.

The 777-300 a beautiful aircraft? - I think that is really a matter of taste. Though I like the B777-200, the 773 looks ugly to me. Is there a more ugly widebody aircraft than the 773? Not one comes to my mind. Completely out of proportion. Imagine Naomi Campbell more than 7 feet tall.
Anyway, I don´t give thiy aircraft a big chance in the US.
Why? UA and NW seem to be the only airlines to need aircraft bigger than a 772. They both have rather big 747-400 fleets that don´t need to be replaced this decade. And when the first 744s get old by 2010, airlines will have the choice between different 747X-versions and the A3XX then, both likely to have even or even better seatmile-costs than the B773. Traffic will be far higher by the end of this decade so its also more likely that airlines that need 744s now will most likely upgrade to the new Superjumbos than downgrade to a 773 then.
AA, Delta and Continental could be candidates, but I also think that there´s hardly demand for them in the next years. And after that maybe the 747X is a better candidate if they need some flagship aircraft.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2000-11-19 17:12:27 and read 2014 times.

The only thing that bothers me about the GE90 engine is that the fan blades are made with composites with titanium edges vs. all titanium on P&W and RR engines. Will these fan blades be durable enough to take any kind of ingestion of objects like metal, ice, or birds and the added thrust of close to 115,000lbs required for the new 777X models?

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Tupolev154B2
Posted 2000-11-19 19:09:35 and read 2000 times.

What about AA's Rolls-powered 757's? There isn't a GE version of the engine for that aircraft.

Topic: GE, PW And RR
Username: AFa340-300E
Posted 2000-11-19 19:43:02 and read 1998 times.

Hello,

RayChuang: There's one little detail you forgot to add in your analysis:

General Electric has no reason to scrap its sole supplier agreement with Boeing for powerplant of any 777 above 318 tonnes.
That would be a total nonsense for GE to invest in a product because they gained the contract and drop it in favor of their competitors.

So it is totally useless to speculate on RR and PW-powered 777LRs.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2000-11-19 23:07:08 and read 1978 times.

Na,
The A310 has to be the ugliest widebody, second being the A300. But, like you said, it's a matter of taste. I think the 777-300 is beautiful!!!!!!!

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Louis
Posted 2000-11-20 00:01:58 and read 1967 times.

If anyone wants to see a real dog, check out the A346. Ewwwww! I'd be embarassed to be inside one of those things!

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2000-11-20 18:58:44 and read 1943 times.

Alain

Oh, that depends on what AA and UA wants. If AA and UA says they will buy 40 777-300ER's each but AA wants the Rolls-Royce Trent "8120" and UA wants the Pratt & Whitney "PW41120" engine in order to seal the deal, I think Boeing might listen because we're talking about over US$10 billion in new plane orders.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: UAL747
Posted 2000-11-20 19:38:40 and read 1934 times.

If Boeing "decides to listen" won't that be in violation of the contract with GE? Or would the benefits outweigh the costs in this situation? Also, what have RR and P&W developed thus far for the LR, and ER models if anything?

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Chiawei
Posted 2000-11-20 20:15:49 and read 1925 times.

With GE's exclusive status on the 777LR and ER. I doubted that there would a market for it for N.A customers.

United operates nearly all PW engines. I seriously doubt that their would pick up 777LR with GE engines.

American might buy the 777LR since AA has both all three manufacturer's engine in its current fleet, PW for MD-82, GE CF6 for A300 and 767, RR for its 757/777 fleet. But since AA's 777 are powered by trent, most likely AA will request RR.

Most of Delta plane are with PW engines. So I seriously doubted that Delta will order the 777LR with GE engines.

Also, one thing that everyone should consider is the pilot union. Both UAL and Delta are having or had trouble in setting the pay scale for their 777 pilot.

Most likely the 1st 777-300 in U.S. will be foreign carrier. I know EVA is going to replace their west coast flights from Taiwan with newly ordered 777-300ER.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: TEDSKI
Posted 2000-11-21 02:44:11 and read 1911 times.

All of Delta's 777-200ERs are powered by RR Trent 800 series engines. The only American carrier that might order the 777-300ER is Continental, who has GE90 powered 777-200ERs.

Topic: RE: When Will The US See The 777-300?
Username: Danny
Posted 2000-11-21 15:13:59 and read 1889 times.

I don't know, but think that the 773 would look good in UAL colors.


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