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Topic: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2007-05-30 02:17:03 and read 5426 times.

I was just helping a friend book some flights and found this

Leave – Wed 12 Sep 2007
United
Flight 6481 Departs: 10:45a
Los Angeles (LAX) Arrives: 3:45p
Mid- Continent (ICT)
Coach | Fare code: WE21N3NX | Aircraft: Canadair Regional Jet 700 | 3h 00m | 1199 miles | many seats remain

Return – Mon 17 Sep 2007
United
Flight 6480 Departs: 4:20p
Mid- Continent (ICT) Arrives: 5:22p
Los Angeles (LAX)
Coach | Fare code: WE21N3NX | Aircraft: Canadair Regional Jet 700 | 3h 02m | 1199 miles | many seats remain

Looks like UA is joining the mix with DL as previously discussed here RE: DL To Start LAX-ICT (by CALeeIII May 20 2007 in Civil Aviation) !

-m



[Edited 2007-05-30 02:19:28]

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Ejmmsu
Posted 2007-05-30 02:21:21 and read 5402 times.

This is a good way to insure both carriers will absolutely tank on the route.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-05-30 02:22:20 and read 5390 times.

There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

-JD

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FCYTravis
Posted 2007-05-30 02:23:38 and read 5390 times.

Can you say "overcapacity?" I can... from zero to 120 seats a day in that market. Ouch.

This, I suppose, is the first warning shot from UAL. They're not going to let the LAX hublet go undefended.

Flight begins Sept. 5.

[Edited 2007-05-30 02:26:47]

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Ejmmsu
Posted 2007-05-30 02:26:34 and read 5363 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

Until both carriers lose their shorts on the route, and both pull out. Then ICT is left with a repuation of "not being able to support an LAX flight"

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2007-05-30 02:27:19 and read 5363 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
There is no problem one flight leaves from ICT in the morning - Delta. The other departs in the afternoon - United. It is a win~win situation for the city of Wichita.

-JD

No, it isn't. Too much capacity on too thin a route.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus By OO
Username: Evan767
Posted 2007-05-30 02:27:49 and read 5363 times.

Big swing at Delta here.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Danairbus
Posted 2007-05-30 02:28:07 and read 5340 times.

What are the O&D numbers on ICT-LAX?

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: ShannoninAMA
Posted 2007-05-30 02:28:20 and read 5340 times.

Shame that this ensures both carriers are screwed for this route. Hey, theres no competition for LAX nonstops in AMA...*hint hint*



Yeah right  Wink



Shannon.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2007-05-30 02:30:38 and read 5327 times.

I took it as DL trying to feed into some West routes (IE some of the new Mexico flying) that I think leave mid afternoon?

and UA as feeding south pacific star flights

-m

 airplane 

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Ejmmsu
Posted 2007-05-30 02:30:49 and read 5327 times.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
Big swing at Delta here.

Still not sure, at this point, why DL is basing a big part of their post-bankrupty success plan on a getting int a pissing match with UA, AA, WN etc at LAX.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-05-30 02:40:28 and read 5274 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
No, it isn't. Too much capacity on too thin a route

You know a number of people said that when new routes were launched such as SAT-SMF, SAT-ONT, SAN-TUL, SAN-OMA, COS-SMF, GEG-ONT, all by a certain upstart airline just about a month or so ago. And now look at what has happened!  laughing 

http://xjet.com/menu/whyxjet/routemap.htm

In addition the Wichita and surrounding area has a population of 618,641 people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita%2C_Kansas


-JD

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2007-05-30 02:43:00 and read 5261 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):

In addition the Wichita and surrounding area has a population of 618,641 people.

How is that a large population? Tampa has 2.7M people, and they only have two daily flights to LAX.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 11):
You know a number of people said that when new routes were launched such as SAT-SMF, SAT-ONT, SAN-TUL, SAN-OMA, COS-SMF, GEG-ONT, all by a certain upstart airline just about a month or so ago. And now look at what has happened! laughing

http://xjet.com/menu/whyxjet/routemap.htm

What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

[Edited 2007-05-30 02:44:03]

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: ShannoninAMA
Posted 2007-05-30 03:18:49 and read 5165 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):

What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

exactly what i was wondering  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: RL757PVD
Posted 2007-05-30 03:24:52 and read 5141 times.

Well before everyone jumps on DL... is this one of the Expressjet "at risk" routes they are running for DL at LAX?

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: DeltAirlines
Posted 2007-05-30 03:40:14 and read 5087 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
Well before everyone jumps on DL... is this one of the Expressjet "at risk" routes they are running for DL at LAX?

Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-05-30 03:48:00 and read 5063 times.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
What has happened? The ExpressJet concept just launched, and we still know very little about it's success, other than that load factors have been very mixed.

There was a topic a number of days ago here on airliners. Feel free to read the part about the routes from SMF, SAN, and ONT and their respectful routes and loads.

XJet In SAN (by WhatUsaid May 22 2007 in Civil Aviation)

-JD

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2007-05-30 03:53:09 and read 5037 times.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

 checkmark  Correct. Starts July 1st with a EMB145.

UA's service begins Sept 5th using CRJ700s featuring both first class and E+.
This adds to UA's similar service to OKC which commenced summer 2006 and been fairly successful from what I understand.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2007-05-30 04:30:06 and read 4938 times.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 3):

This, I suppose, is the first warning shot from UAL. They're not going to let the LAX hublet go undefended.

Flight begins Sept. 5.

 checkmark  If DL expects to make LAX its newest international ga

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

Correct, XE is bearing the costs and losses associated with the recent LAX routes. However, don't expect UA to sit back and watch DL intrude in their hub - witness the recent LAX-HKG and LAX-ICT adds.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2007-05-30 04:37:07 and read 4921 times.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 1):
This is a good way to insure both carriers will absolutely tank on the route.

I'd have to give the advantage to UA as they have more connections in LAX than DL, though DL is growing

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Delta787
Posted 2007-05-30 13:29:48 and read 4679 times.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk," just as all Big Sky BOS flying is "at risk."

The way I read it, only eight of ExpressJets planes will be operated at risk. The other 10 will be operated by under a different agreement.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: PVD757
Posted 2007-05-30 17:34:24 and read 4497 times.

ICT-LAX O&D for 3Q06 was 85 total (42.5 each way).

ICT-BUR = less than 10 total
ICT-ONT = 19 total
ICT-SNA = 34 total

surely not a robust amount of traffic IMO...

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2007-05-30 17:38:46 and read 4485 times.

Well let the pissing contest begin.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 18):
Correct, XE is bearing the costs and losses associated with the recent LAX routes. However, don't expect UA to sit back and watch DL intrude in their hub - witness the recent LAX-HKG and LAX-ICT adds.

It is incredably appearant that UA is trying to beef up its precense at LAX just because DL is tying to build its precence there. I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it. Same goes with LAX-ICT. My worry is that they are going to go crazy on certain makets and flood them with overcapacity and then they both shut down.

My money is on UA simply because they already have a very loyal following here, much larger than DL. But I wish DL the best of luck. UA is appearantly ready to fight.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LawnDart
Posted 2007-05-30 18:01:26 and read 4430 times.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
Big swing at Delta here.

Big swing? More like a bunt...ATL-LAX would've been a big swing.

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 10):
Still not sure, at this point, why DL is basing a big part of their post-bankrupty success plan on a getting int a pissing match with UA, AA, WN etc at LAX.

No airline has a lock on LAX...LAX is a huge market...DL has a large number of FF accounts in southern CA...a lot of DL's FFs in other markets go to southern CA...DL doesn't have a convenient way of transfering passengers from the western half of the U.S. to Mexico/Pacific markets (SLC is not an option due to low O&D)...most of DL's new service into LAX is through a Connection carrier...DL has available gate space they would like to retain...oh, and the airline industry is highly competitive, so let the pissing begin...

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
It is incredably appearant that UA is trying to beef up its precense at LAX just because DL is tying to build its precence there. I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it.

Agree!

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: Laxintl
Posted 2007-05-30 18:10:43 and read 4409 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 22):
I dont even think that UA would have restarted LAX-HKG had DL not been interested in it

If not for the IAD-PEK, LAX-HKG was slatted to start during the first half of '06. With the DOT China award its start up had to be postponed as the fleet was juggled further in-time for the winter schedule.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: AADC10
Posted 2007-05-30 19:13:15 and read 4332 times.

It may be that UAX has the flight partially to serve the UA benefits processing office in Wichita.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2007-05-30 23:08:29 and read 4171 times.

UA always trips me out with SFO and LAX. There are certain markets that LAX has flights to that SFO does not. MSY, ICT, OKC, etc. SFO is their prefered hub no doubt, so why bring these flights to LAX at all? LAX did get a flight at SFO's expense with HKG though.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: AznCSA4QF744ER
Posted 2007-05-31 00:33:06 and read 3829 times.

That was quick, we only got notice of that service a few days ago. UAX needs LAX-AUS route. LAXOKC as been doing very well, rumor has it's going double daily soon.....

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2007-05-31 04:35:40 and read 3326 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 26):
UA always trips me out with SFO and LAX. There are certain markets that LAX has flights to that SFO does not. MSY, ICT, OKC, etc. SFO is their prefered hub no doubt, so why bring these flights to LAX at all? LAX did get a flight at SFO's expense with HKG though.

Pretty simple actually, look at the geography of OKC, MSY and ICT - they're all in the south and thus don't steal much traffic that would be flowing otherwise through DEN. Meanwhile, the flight path for SFO-ICT, SFO-MSY or SFO-OKC is almost literally directly over DEN.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: DL777LAX
Posted 2007-05-31 05:11:08 and read 3287 times.

Interesting move on UA's part. The Los Angeles area is a large and diverse region, and several people are loyal to several different airlines. Lets see what happens. UA's LAX-ICT and LAX-HKG may be warning shots. But, maybe both can succeed. Neither airline are intimidated easily. DL won't take crap. UA wont either. DL may or may not be successful in invading LAX. I hope they are, I don't like United, but thats just a personal opinion.

But, with Delta's recent track record, they have shown that they will exploit all resources they have. DL is exploiting Terminal 5, and the abundance of regional jets in their fleet. DL knows United isn't going to keel over, but United can't afford to bleed money, they are not in as good of shape as they thought they would be after there bankruptcy. Lets see what happens, can DL afford LAX? They will need to be tolerant about losing money, while at the same time, not bleeding as a whole. They can find profit in LAX. The number one thing they need to do though is advertise. ADVERTISE ADVERTISE ADVERTISE. That was F9's down fall on LAX-SFO, no one knew of there service.

They may get into a pissing match, but, they just might be able to win. It depends on how aggressive they are. It also depends on how they get passengers to fly, and how many they get. Its all going to come down to two things. Advertising, and getting people on board. By doing that, Delta just might be able to come out as top dog in Los Angeles.

Delta can do this, United will fight, both will be aggressive, the second largest metro area is at stake, a large market, a rich market, an important gate way. United has more to lose, and they are not going to hand this over on a silver platter. Delta wants this badly. They want to be able to build up a hub. They aren't going to let United push them out. In other words, I smell a blood bath coming on in Los Angeles. One that will involve Delta, United, and to a lesser extent, Southwest, Alaska, and American. This is going to be an interesting time in LAX's history, lets see who emerges as the victor.

DL777LAX

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2007-05-31 05:26:12 and read 3265 times.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 29):
Interesting move on UA's part. The Los Angeles area is a large and diverse region, and several people are loyal to several different airlines. Lets see what happens. UA's LAX-ICT and LAX-HKG may be warning shots. But, maybe both can succeed. Neither airline are intimidated easily. DL won't take crap. UA wont either. DL may or may not be successful in invading LAX. I hope they are, I don't like United, but thats just a personal opinion.

Well according to another topic, it looks like DL added LAX-OKC nonstop now too to compete against UA's existing serivce. Wonder how UA will respond, if at all.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2007-05-31 06:07:56 and read 3218 times.

Maybe now UA will start LAX-ATL service... and DL will stick an OH CRJ on ORD-LAX again.  Wink

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: DL777LAX
Posted 2007-05-31 06:17:26 and read 3208 times.

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 30):

Well according to another topic, it looks like DL added LAX-OKC nonstop now too to compete against UA's existing serivce. Wonder how UA will respond, if at all.

Like I said, let the bloodbath begin. This is DL reacting to UA's announcement to LAX-ICT. DL and UA will not be friendly with each other, to say the least.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 31):
Maybe now UA will start LAX-ATL service... and DL will stick an OH CRJ on ORD-LAX again. Wink

Umm... United trying to fly between Delta country and LAX? umm... thats the stupidest move United could possibly make in this battle. If there is one market that UA will wildly protect, its ATL. DL regrets FL being in ATL, but as some said in a thread i made earlier this weak, FL is what inspires Delta to be more then just good.

Of course, you were being sarcastic though. And a crj between Chicago and Los Angeles? HELL NO!!! Besides, the crj doesn't have the range to fly that long of a distance either.

DL777LAX

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: HVNandrew
Posted 2007-05-31 13:36:01 and read 3113 times.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 32):
Of course, you were being sarcastic though. And a crj between Chicago and Los Angeles? HELL NO!!! Besides, the crj doesn't have the range to fly that long of a distance either.

OH actually flew ORD-LAX, I believe with a CR7, back in 2000.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: UnitedTristar
Posted 2007-06-01 00:26:03 and read 2981 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 33):

OH actually flew ORD-LAX, I believe with a CR7, back in 2000.

I don't think so!

This has not been a DL route for at least the last 25 years

-m



[Edited 2007-06-01 00:55:50]

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-06-01 01:30:21 and read 2940 times.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
Well before everyone jumps on DL... is this one of the Expressjet "at risk" routes they are running for DL at LAX?

yes

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Pretty sure every ExpressJet route for DL Connection out of LAX is "at risk,"

no.... the former ASA LAX-Mexico routes and the domestic feed to support them (using the same aircraft) are "at risk" for DL. The rest which have been announced since then are "at risk" for ExpressJet.

DL execs obviously got the idea after talking to ExpressJet that instead of flying point to point routes under its own brand, ExpressJet should instead be flying them to a hub under the DL brand where the chance of success is much higher - if for no other reason because ExpressJet is getting access to the preferred LA airport (something they couldn't dream of happenng by flying point to point at risk flying on their own from any other major metro area ) . DL needs flights at its LAX hub and to build it up in anticipation of transpac service. It is a win-win situation for DL and ExpressJet.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 29):
But, maybe both can succeed. Neither airline are intimidated easily. DL won't take crap. UA wont either.

Given that there is no profit margin built into ExpressJet's flying for Delta, ExpressJet should win this contest even if all other costs are equal... and I would bet that ExpressJet's costs are lower than UEx if only because UA finished its cost reduction program and DL came along and beat UA in most categories.

LAX is an important market for UA but it is not strategically necessary for them; LAX is for DL. UA will blink first. And Vrigin America and Southwest might put enough pressure on UA at SFO that they have to retrench from LAX to protect SFO.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2007-06-01 02:01:09 and read 2917 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 35):
LAX is for DL. UA will blink first.

Dont wouldnt bet money on it. One thing that UA does have is a much larger FF loyalty in LA. DL definately does not. No doubt that DL will put up a fight, but honestly I see this as more of a no-win situation in the long run for either airline. They are going to flood the markets with excess capacity where it isnt needed. Then there is the potential that both airlines will lose money on LAX. LAX isnt a push-over market for DL like ATL is. And LAX isnt a pushover market for UA like SFO is. LAX is practically a war zone for the airlines (debateably) more so than any other airport in the country.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2007-06-01 02:02:09 and read 2916 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):

Sorry, Gramactical error. I meant to say Dont bet money on it.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: AznCSA4QF744ER
Posted 2007-06-01 02:19:59 and read 2903 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 33):
OH actually flew ORD-LAX, I believe with a CR7, back in 2000.

Comair flew that route back when? Hummm, strange I thought the CR7 didn’t enter revenue service until after 2002.

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 32):
the crj doesn't have the range to fly that long of a distance either.

I’m pretty sure a CR2 can fly ORD-LAX with major weight restriction the same goes with the CR7. However, the new CR9 can go with a full load. SkyWest’s which operate SLC-YYZ has the same distance as ORD-LAX.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2007-06-01 02:35:40 and read 2891 times.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 31):
Maybe now UA will start LAX-ATL service

This might not be bad if UA could time the flight to coencide with its SYD flights.

Topic: RE: UA Starting ICT LAX Nonstop With ExPlus And OO
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-06-01 02:56:21 and read 2869 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
One thing that UA does have is a much larger FF loyalty in LA. DL definately does not. No doubt that DL will put up a fight, but honestly I see this as more of a no-win situation in the long run for either airline.

This is going to play out very interesting in the long run. There have been a lot of people pissed off over the recent years with United Airlines and their service. In the Los Angeles market United Airlines seems to have a love-hate relationship. The overall Southern California market for United Airlines is strong but as can be seen in recent years more and more airlines are eroding United Airlines market-share in the Los Angeles market. United Airlines cannot keep on as business as usual. The FF'ers are now turning to other legacies in the market that are building a strong Los Angeles presence. Those being American Airlines, and Delta Air Lines. Up until a few years ago United Airlines did not need to worry about to much competition at LAX, as they were the 300-ton gorilla alongside Southwest. Now with the entry of Delta Airlines/Delta Connection into many UAL LAX markets were are seeing the potential for United Airlines FF'ers to defect to other airlines.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 36):
Then there is the potential that both airlines will lose money on LAX. LAX isn't a push-over market for DL like ATL is. And LAX isn't a pushover market for UA like SFO is.

The problem with this psyche is that United Airlines has always treated Los Angeles like the stepchild to San Francisco. United Airlines in the late 1990's came out and said that Los Angeles was indeed a hub. In fact I remember a number of advertisements in and around the Los Angeles market that pretty much bragged about United Airlines Los Angeles hub.

The only reason United Airlines has a sudden interest in Los Angeles, is because they are seeing that they cannot drag their feet anymore. The longer they wait the more American and Delta will eat away at their market-share. For many people now are thinking well since United is reinstating LAX-HKG, Delta doesn't have that much chance to expand. Think otherwise! Delta Air Lines new product combined with ambitious plans for expansion from Los Angeles are going to make a lot of people think.. What? United Airlines has a fight on their hands, and I am not to sure they have the resources to fight the battle they are about to enter in Los Angeles. For example United Airlines has been very cautious to expand Los Angeles to Asia in fear of cannibalizing it San Francisco to Asia services. United Airlines has a strong following but cannot simply add a LAX-KIX with the possibility of cannibalizing its San Francisco service.

This is what is making Delta Air Lines, prime to enter the Trans-Pac market from Los Angeles. I dont think that it is to far of a stretch to think that Delta Air Lines is going to be seriously looking outside of the box for routes that are under served, and are not served from Los Angeles that warrant service. This has been made apparent with Delta Air Lines service from ATL-LOS, ATL-DKR-JNB, JFK-PSA, JFK-ACC, and scores of others. There are routes from ATL that even with all of the connecting traffic Delta cannot fill to Asia. It is not just Trans-Pac that is being rumored at Los Angeles, it is European and South Americn routes as well that are being tossed around as potentials for Los Angeles and Delta Air Lines expansion. Routes that can be supported heavily with the Los Angeles basin and its Asian/South Pacific rich O/D markets. Remember a newly energized Delta Air Lines has a lot of buying power, and power to negotiate leases if need be for additional long-haul equipment such as 777, 767, and 787. In any case a year from now we should see all of these plans coming into play and perhaps, just perhaps a few tricks will be revealed!

-JD


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