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Topic: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: FlyTUITravel
Posted 2007-06-20 16:40:48 and read 17021 times.

A U2 plane flying from PMI to LTN was diverted to BCN due to death of a woman.

Full story -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6220814.stm

Tragic.


FLYTUITRAVEL.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Saleya22R
Posted 2007-06-20 16:46:40 and read 16980 times.

Sounds like a pulmonary embolism(blood clot in the lung) caused by a DVT. Very sad indeed.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2007-06-20 17:07:25 and read 16809 times.

Quoting Saleya22R (Reply 1):
Sounds like a pulmonary embolism(blood clot in the lung) caused by a DVT. Very sad indeed.

Sounds more like congestive heart failure, when you hear of the shortness of breath, not being able to walk, and the leg swelling, apparently without leg *pain*. But, as with all things medical, it could be all sorts of stuff. From one article: "People with congestive heart failure often have trouble with swollen legs as the heart pump fails and blood stagnates in the veins. Those afflicted with malnutrition; disorders of the liver, kidney, or intestines; or conditions like allergies, burns, blood clots, insect bites, or bacterial infections may suffer from swollen extremities for a variety of reasons. Blockage of the lymphatic system -- such as from cancer or lymph gland inflammation -- as well as pregnancy can also cause leg edema."

So, DVT is the politically-popular diagnosis when it comes to someone that has flown on a discount airline, but not necessarily the medically-correct one.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Saleya22R
Posted 2007-06-20 17:35:53 and read 16634 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 2):

Yes, you are right in a sense that many possibilities need to be excluded. In any case she was ill when boarding the flight. What happened had probably nothing to do with flight per se. Given that she was previously healthy I still believe that a pulmonary embolism is a strong option.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2007-06-20 17:48:59 and read 16566 times.

Although her death occurred on a LCC, I must say that EasyJet did the best they could and made the truly professional decision to divert.
She probably shouldn't have been flying, but I assume her appearance and symptoms were difficult to diagnose without highly technical tests to a Doctor. In some other places, the doctor probably would have recommended that the patient be checked into a good local hospital ASAP which I assume Majorca has, but the doctor's decision may have been compromised by the family's desire to get home, see there regular doctor and her med records there.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2007-06-20 18:09:43 and read 16438 times.

Quoting Saleya22R (Reply 1):
Sounds like a pulmonary embolism(blood clot in the lung) caused by a DVT. Very sad indeed

Yes... Happened to a friend of mine (30), furtunately she made it but only just. Scary.

One thing I find strange:

Mr Birds said his wife's condition deteriorated about an hour into the flight as she sat next to her 12-year-old daughter Hayley. [..] The flight was immediately diverted to Barcelona while two nurses on the plane battled to save Mrs Birds.

About an hour into the flight from PMI to LTN would have you much closer to Paris, why turn back to BCN?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Britannia191a
Posted 2007-06-20 21:12:26 and read 15801 times.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 5):
About an hour into the flight from PMI to LTN would have you much closer to Paris, why turn back to BCN?

PMI - BCN is 150miles which is approx 30min flight, another 150miles north is approx south of Toulouse. So why wouldnt they turn back to Barclelona which is an Easyjet location with the facilities to deal with both the person and the airline.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: TeamAmerica
Posted 2007-06-20 21:50:17 and read 15623 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 2):
So, DVT is the politically-popular diagnosis when it comes to someone that has flown on a discount airline, but not necessarily the medically-correct one.

DVT is a "politically popular diagnosis"? I don't understand that comment at all.

As for congestive heart failure, that is a chronic condition not likely to have caused a sudden death like this. Pulmonary embolism is far more likely. You may argue that heart failure could put one at risk of forming such blood clots, but it would be the clot that kills, not the heart failure per se.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2007-06-20 22:21:44 and read 15485 times.

I wonder if Ryan air would have diverted?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Spacecadet
Posted 2007-06-20 22:34:18 and read 15439 times.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 2):
Sounds more like congestive heart failure, when you hear of the shortness of breath, not being able to walk, and the leg swelling, apparently without leg *pain*.

Congestive heart failure takes years for symptoms to progress to that point. It's rare for anyone to die of congestive heart failure without knowing they have it; rarer still for someone to suddenly have symptoms bad enough to seek medical attention, rarer still for a doctor to completely miss it.

And again, rarer still for somebody that young to have it, and to die from it immediately after seeing a doctor.

The chances of congestive heart failure are remote. There's a reason why people scream "DVT" whenever a story like this pops up - it is the most likely cause.

She would not have had pain in her legs at that stage because the clot had already moved to her lungs.

Most of my experience on both subjects comes from recent family and personal history.

[Edited 2007-06-20 22:35:47]

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2007-06-20 23:28:52 and read 15230 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
I wonder if Ryan air would have diverted?

Why wouldn't they? In the best interest of the passenger, airlines are required to take the safest course of action for the said passenger. If someone is suffering a heart attack, using the AED and other medical equipment on the aircraft is only a temporary measure. A medical facility is what's required, and to refuse an option to save someone's life can be considered manslaughter. Legacy or LCC, that means trouble...$9 fares notwithstanding.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Zeke
Posted 2007-06-20 23:38:54 and read 15192 times.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 10):

Why wouldn't they? In the best interest of the passenger, airlines are required to take the safest course of action for the said passenger.

It is not as simple as that, we only divert if medlink instructs us to do so. No airline or pilot is going to put the life of one passenger above the rest of the passengers, crew, or aircraft. The safest option for the majority is what will underline the decision making process.

I am not a doctor, I just drive aeroplanes, I defer medical assessments to others, they defer operational decisions to me.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2007-06-20 23:44:21 and read 15166 times.

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 10):
Why wouldn't they? In the best interest of the passenger, airlines are required to take the safest course of action for the said passenger. If someone is suffering a heart attack, using the AED and other medical equipment on the aircraft is only a temporary measure.

I mean if she is already dead, Ryan Air Mgmt might think it better to continue on with the flight. It would be a waste of money to divert, plus they would be doing the dead woman and her family a great service by delivering her to her final resting place. That way the family doesnt have to go pick her up in some far away airport.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Embajador3
Posted 2007-06-20 23:56:11 and read 15121 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 8):
I wonder if Ryan air would have diverted?

That's mean!! No matter the airline you are flying with, if the someone's life is at risk, they will divert to the neares airport!
Please stop those comments about Ryanair...

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BMIFlyer
Posted 2007-06-20 23:57:49 and read 15121 times.

The patient was attended to by a nurse, and a British Army Medic, sadly thay could do nothing to revive her.  Sad



Lee

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Aviateur
Posted 2007-06-21 02:40:00 and read 14447 times.

Why the hell is it news just because somebody dies aboard a commercial flight? Something like four million people fly commercially each day around the world. One of them dies, and this is news? Why? Is it news when somebody has a heart attack on the NYC subway? Is it news when somebody dies on board a Greyhound bus?

Obviously it is sad what happened to the woman, but in the context of air travel, should this really be a media story?

- PS

[Edited 2007-06-21 03:05:51]

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Skoker
Posted 2007-06-21 02:42:00 and read 14429 times.

Does MedLink exist in the UK?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Iflyac
Posted 2007-06-21 02:59:49 and read 14181 times.

Very sad story indeed.

Personally, I suffer from congenital CHF and have to wear compression socks to prevent leg swelling and DVT in flight. It sounds like this woman had something similar, but it doesn't happen all of a sudden like that. Perhaps she was suffering from acute renal failure and the doctor missed it.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Walter747
Posted 2007-06-21 03:06:42 and read 14105 times.

Quoting Saleya22R (Reply 1):
DVT

diverticulitis?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Jamie757
Posted 2007-06-21 03:33:49 and read 13835 times.

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 19):
diverticulitis?

Not quite.  Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVT

Rgds.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Mudboy
Posted 2007-06-21 03:35:09 and read 13817 times.

If the woman had CHF(Congestive Heart Failure), when the MD listened to her lungs, He would have been able to hear Rales(Fluid backing up in the Lungs, known as Pulmonary Edema). This usually takes time to develop. I would hope the MD did not miss this in his assessment. If she had a PE(Pulmonary Embolism) her lung sounds could have been clear, when the MD listened to them, as this can have an acute onset and could have happened in flight. It normally depends on the size of the clot. Another thing could be that she had a spontaneous pneumothorax(collapsed lung) and as they rose in altitude the pneumo worsened due to Boyles Law, but it would not explain the swollen legs. Or, she just had an old fashioned MI. You be the judge. I would guess, but how accurate is the press report?  Big grin

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2007-06-21 04:00:59 and read 13542 times.

Quoting Aviateur (Reply 16):
Obviously it is sad what happened to the woman, but in the context of air travel, should this really be a media story?

Inflight births also make the news.

Quoting Skoker (Reply 17):
Does MedLink exist in the UK?

I'm sure there's some equivalent. I recall a Virgin Atlantic incident a few years ago where a full 747-400 diverted to YFB (Iqaluit, formerly Frobisher Bay) in far northern Canada due to a medical emergency. The aircraft struck a piece of ground equipment on the ramp and damaged an engine. They had to cancel the flight and fly in an empty 747 to rescue the stranded passengers and ferry the original aircraft empty back to LHR.

It was in the middle of the peak season so the two 747s out of service meant quite a few other cancelled flights for several days. If memory correct, VS said later that the entire incident cost them something like $3 million in lost revenue, repair costs and passenger expenses. And it turned out that the passenger with the medical emergency only had a relatively minor problem which hadn't warranted the diversion.

I recall VS stating that they were significantly upgrading their access to the MedLink type of service as a result of that incident.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-06-21 05:18:22 and read 12841 times.

From a board certified Emergency Medicine Physician...

By history, this was a deep vein thrombosis (DVT...or blood clot) that then traveled from the leg vein to the inferior vena cava to the right side of the heart and then to the lungs and became a pulmonary embolism (PE). Further, it sounds like while they were at altitude, the PE became what is known as a "saddle embolus" as the clot(s) totally blocked-off blood flow from the lungs to the heart and therefore to the rest of the body; a recipe for sudden death.

While air travel (rather, long trips without moving your legs) is a risk factor, other things like family history, clotting disorders, whether or not the patient smokes, whether or not the patient has cancer, and whether or not the patient takes birth control pills or hormones all play into this. The doctor at the airport did not take a complete history as this is diagnosed first by history, then by fancy tests (blood test called d-dimer, nuclear medicine v/q scans, and computed tomographic pulmonary angiography...aka...CT PE protocol). I would never have let this woman fly had I seen her. To say that this woman died from her flight in and of itself is a false statement, it was merely a risk factor.

CHF, Pneumothorax, and Myocardial Infarction (MI...heart attack) while possibilities, are less likely on the differential diagnosis given the histories. The betting man should and would bet for DVT with subsequent PE for this case.

Chattanooga 747

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: N908AW
Posted 2007-06-21 05:28:44 and read 12761 times.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
No airline or pilot is going to put the life of one passenger above the rest of the passengers, crew, or aircraft.

Not so fast...well at least not in America. I've been on a med emergency diversion (LAS-MSP on Sun Country diverting to FSD at 1am. weeeee) and the crew was extremely nice about it. Wish the pax coulda felt the same. However, your argument still could hold water...I'd chalk their caring about the person up as 1) It's more than likely in the FAR 121 rules, and 2) It's cheaper than dealing with lawyers.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BCAL
Posted 2007-06-21 09:49:36 and read 10921 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 12):
I mean if she is already dead, Ryan Air Mgmt might think it better to continue on with the flight

Prayer, tell me how you know what FR's Operations' decision would have be when you do not have access to the full facts. You are simply using this as an opportunity to bash Ryanair.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 15):

Please stop those comments about Ryanair...

Well said.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 15):
That's mean!! No matter the airline you are flying with, if the someone's life is at risk, they will divert to the neares airport!

Not necessarily. It depends on a number of factors and on what the airline's operations centre will advise the captain of the aircraft after consulting the appropriate authorities. The ultimate decision will rest with the captain.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Swiftski
Posted 2007-06-21 10:11:30 and read 10743 times.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 25):
Prayer, tell me how you know what FR's Operations' decision would have be when you do not have access to the full facts. You are simply using this as an opportunity to bash Ryanair.

Exactly; as a "13-15yr old" in the USA, I doubt he's ever flown them, esp. when he spells it Ryan air.

I doubt any family would want a dead member travelling propped up in a seat. No dignity.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Christopherwoo
Posted 2007-06-21 10:39:02 and read 10513 times.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
It is not as simple as that, we only divert if medlink instructs us to do so. No airline or pilot is going to put the life of one passenger above the rest of the passengers, crew, or aircraft. The safest option for the majority is what will underline the decision making process.

erm... It is as simple as that. Any life threatening situation on board concerning anyone whether it be an adult or child means an immediate diversion to the NEAREST airport. They wouldn't have planned out which was more convenient for them to land at, it would have been the nearest airport and the quickest to get to. Believe me, i've had a few medical emergencies while working for easyJet

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Femme
Posted 2007-06-21 10:55:15 and read 10376 times.

Whatever the cause, my thoughts go out to her family, a tragic thing to happen in any circumstances ...a holiday they will never forget.

May she rest in peace

Claire

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: EDICHC
Posted 2007-06-21 13:00:34 and read 9475 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 23):
From a board certified Emergency Medicine Physician...

By history, this was a deep vein thrombosis (DVT...or blood clot) that then traveled from the leg vein to the inferior vena cava to the right side of the heart and then to the lungs and became a pulmonary embolism (PE). Further, it sounds like while they were at altitude, the PE became what is known as a "saddle embolus" as the clot(s) totally blocked-off blood flow from the lungs to the heart and therefore to the rest of the body; a recipe for sudden death.

While air travel (rather, long trips without moving your legs) is a risk factor, other things like family history, clotting disorders, whether or not the patient smokes, whether or not the patient has cancer, and whether or not the patient takes birth control pills or hormones all play into this. The doctor at the airport did not take a complete history as this is diagnosed first by history, then by fancy tests (blood test called d-dimer, nuclear medicine v/q scans, and computed tomographic pulmonary angiography...aka...CT PE protocol). I would never have let this woman fly had I seen her. To say that this woman died from her flight in and of itself is a false statement, it was merely a risk factor.

CHF, Pneumothorax, and Myocardial Infarction (MI...heart attack) while possibilities, are less likely on the differential diagnosis given the histories. The betting man should and would bet for DVT with subsequent PE for this case.

Chattanooga 747

Not nearly enough information to come to that conclusion, besides the victim complained of breathlessness and lower limb oedema for 48 hours prior to death. According to the victim's husband here breathlessness was so severe that she was unable to walk by arrival at the airport, I suspect the medic at the airport missed somethng there. And don't tell me that doesnt happen as an RN with 20 years experience in CCU/Cardiology I have seen on at leat half a dozen occasions a Junior house officer fail to diagnose a fairly obvious case of CCF/Pulmonary Oedema only to be overruled by the Registrar. The article states nothing of the past medical history who knows what pedisposing factors there may have been. On the basis of the limited information, I would have said Congestive Cardiac Failure and Pulmonary Oedema are just as highly probable as PE. I would certainly agree that the flight was not in itself the cause, like you said a risk factor and given the victims condition prior to departure, possibly not a significant factor.


RIP and condolences to the poor woman's family

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Womack17
Posted 2007-06-21 14:03:21 and read 8951 times.

I developed a little bit of a medical emergency on board an AA flight from ORD-PVG last February, when I realized that I had stupidly left my insulin needles at home. I had my insulin but no way to give myself an injection and my sugar was quite high when I checked it about half way through the flight. I asked one of the other flight attendants if it would be possible for me to speak with the purser. She informed me that the purser was now resting and asked if she could help. I explained my predicament and she told me to hang on she would be right back. About 3 minutes later, I looked over to see the purser kneeling beside me. I was most embarrased and apologized profusely for disturbing her rest. She told me to think nothing of it and asked me what I needed her to do. I explained my situation and she immediately went into action. She asked if there happened to be a doctor onboard and when no one answered in the affirmative, she came back to me and told me not to worry. The next thing I know I am being introduced to the Captain, who was most gracious to me. He told me that the purser has informed him of my situation and immediately offered me alternatives. It was decided that the best course of action would be for the captain to call my personal doctor at home to receive his permission to open the first aid kit on board in order to give me a syringe. All of this was done with the utmost care and professionalism and at no time did I have any reason to believe that I was being a burden to the captain or the purser, even though that is exactly what I felt like.

Throughout the remainder of the flight, the purser never went back to take the remainder of her rest, even though I pleaded with her to do so. I told her that I was perfectly fine now as I was able to give myself the insulin, but she would not hear of it. She just smiled at me and with a truly remarkable sincerity said, "I'm here if you need me." Once we landed the captain came out of the cockpit to thank me for flying with American and to make sure that I was doing okay. I thanked him and the purser repeatedly and said that I would never forget them or their kindness.

Incidentally, the captain did inform me that, as a last resort, he would have to divert the flight to the closest airport if none of the other options panned out. I remember wondering where we would land as we were over the northern Pacific at the time. Thankfully, the diversion was not needed.

My thoughts and prayers are with this lady's family at this sad time.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2007-06-21 14:25:45 and read 8733 times.

Quoting Britannia191a (Reply 6):
PMI - BCN is 150miles which is approx 30min flight, another 150miles north is approx south of Toulouse. So why wouldnt they turn back to Barclelona which is an Easyjet location with the facilities to deal with both the person and the airline.

Emmm, not wanting to nitpick but the Easyjet website lists the block time PMI-LTN as 1:25-1:35, so one hour into flight, Paris would have been far closer.

However, I think the "one hour into the flight" was probably inaccurate, if they had been closer to CDG than BCN they would have gone there.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: NASBWI
Posted 2007-06-21 14:52:06 and read 8473 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 12):
I mean if she is already dead

The lady was not already dead; she had lost consciousness.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BCAL
Posted 2007-06-21 15:06:08 and read 8327 times.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 31):
the Easyjet website lists the block time PMI-LTN as 1:25-1:35, so one hour into flight, Paris would have been far closer.

Times quoted are local times and PMI is +1 hour ahead of UK, so the flight's duration is 2 hours 10 minutes.

Quoting Womack17 (Reply 30):

An interesting and informative post that shows the professionalism of the AA flight crew. An interesting thought, however, is supposing the plane did have to divert to the nearest airport. Would they seek to recover the costs of diversion from you in the circumstances described?

Quoting Femme (Reply 28):
May she rest in peace

Amen to that.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Riyadhnurse
Posted 2007-06-21 15:53:53 and read 7956 times.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 9):

Congestive Heart Failure =CHF can have a sudden onset given the right circumstances,and what if any pre-existing conditions the patient may have had. There are 4 classes of CHF as defined by the NY Heart Association. The examining MD did not clear the patient with the fundamental tests that would have confirmed the diagnosis ,that includes Chest X-ray,and ECG,and ABG's.She was not symptomatic of a DVT. Changes in the Barometric pressures and decreased oxygen tension,will exacerbate most cardiac conditions.A sad situation regardless..SW RNP

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: YYZYYT
Posted 2007-06-21 17:01:47 and read 7320 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 12):
mean if she is already dead, Ryan Air Mgmt might think it better to continue on with the flight. It would be a waste of money to divert, plus they would be doing the dead woman and her family a great service by delivering her to her final resting place. That way the family doesnt have to go pick her up in some far away airport.

Any airline would face the same dilemna, and on occasion that is the correct decision. It has been discussed here many times before, following incidents such as this.

But that is very different from a developing medical emergency. What was being hinted at was a situation where airline management ordered the pilot not to divert for money reasons... I would hope that no ariline (not even "mean and nasty" Ryanair) would be do that.

Here is a question, should any pilots be lurking here - I can see why a call will be made to MedLink, so that a proper medical assessment of the situation can be made. Once MedLink makes a recomendation, whose call is it? is airline operations involved? or is it the pilot's decision?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BuyantUkhaa
Posted 2007-06-21 17:12:53 and read 7276 times.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 33):
Times quoted are local times and PMI is +1 hour ahead of UK, so the flight's duration is 2 hours 10 minutes

Ah, what a clumsy mistake... So it would be more than two hours. Anyway I often fly LIS-BRU and one hour of flying (in an A32x) usually puts me just a bit northwest of Santander, about 700km from LIS. Using the same distance from PMI towards LTN I end up near Limoges, France.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BMIFlyer
Posted 2007-06-21 17:15:48 and read 7269 times.

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 35):
Here is a question, should any pilots be lurking here - I can see why a call will be made to MedLink, so that a proper medical assessment of the situation can be made. Once MedLink makes a recomendation, whose call is it? is airline operations involved? or is it the pilot's decision?

As far as i'm aware, if a medlink doctor recommends immediate hospital treatment, then the crew should inform airline ops, who then recommend where to divert to.

Correct me if i'm wrong but thats the way I believe it is done.

WILCO737 might be able to help you out more  Smile




Lee

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Womack17
Posted 2007-06-21 18:44:57 and read 7146 times.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 33):
An interesting and informative post that shows the professionalism of the AA flight crew. An interesting thought, however, is supposing the plane did have to divert to the nearest airport. Would they seek to recover the costs of diversion from you in the circumstances described?

I also thought about that possibility and was fully prepared for that circumstance if the plane was forced to divert due to my carelessness in forgetting to pack syringes. Thankfully, that did not happen as I imagine the coast would have been prohibitive.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-06-22 04:10:45 and read 6893 times.

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 29):
RN with 20 years experience in CCU/Cardiology

Again, leg(s) swollen with shortness of breath with sudden change in mental staus (the "unconsciousness" referred to in the article) is DVT and PE until proven otherwise. Period, end of story. CHF exacerbation rarely leads to sudden unconsciousness; if she had had that much edema, she would likely be foaming pink, frothy sputum at the mouth prior to death (maybe she did but the article didn't mention it??). Remember, I said I was making a bet based on the limited facts that I have; I make these bets all day long at work BUT I do have lab tests to support or refute my bets in an emergency department.

Quoting Riyadhnurse (Reply 34):
She was not symptomatic of a DVT.

Please reference the above. Given the clinical history, this was likely DVT with resulting PE. CHF is usually a slow painful death and if she had CHF that bad, she would have been hypertensive, tachycardic, and hypoxic; all basic vital signs that would have been picked-up by the doctor she saw pre-flight. You can have the symptoms that this patient had with NORMAL vital signs and this is why DVT and PE are elusive diagnoses.

Whatever the case, may she rest in peace.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Uscgc130
Posted 2007-06-22 04:25:03 and read 6867 times.

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 26):
I doubt any family would want a dead member travelling propped up in a seat. No dignity.

The only alternative is having them laid out on the deck, and I don't see that that would be any more (or even as) dignified.

Hey, I know! Strap the deceased into the jump seat up front. Couldn't be any worse for the pilots than a no-notice line check, right?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Swiftski
Posted 2007-06-22 04:37:16 and read 6857 times.

Quoting Uscgc130 (Reply 40):
The only alternative is having them laid out on the deck, and I don't see that that would be any more (or even as) dignified.

Hey, I know! Strap the deceased into the jump seat up front. Couldn't be any worse for the pilots than a no-notice line check, right?

Or, if feasable, land at the nearest airport and have them taken to hospital as soon as possible?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2007-06-22 06:16:50 and read 6784 times.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 13):
That's mean!! No matter the airline you are flying with, if the someone's life is at risk, they will divert to the neares[sic] airport!
Please stop those comments about Ryanair...



Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 15):
That's mean!! No matter the airline you are flying with, if the someone's life is at risk, they will divert to the neares[sic] airport!
Please stop those comments about Ryanair...

Is it necessary to be so repetitive ?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Samair
Posted 2007-06-22 16:18:58 and read 6605 times.

Quoting Aviateur (Reply 15):
Why the hell is it news just because somebody dies aboard a commercial flight? Something like four million people fly commercially each day around the world. One of them dies, and this is news? Why? Is it news when somebody has a heart attack on the NYC subway? Is it news when somebody dies on board a Greyhound bus?

Obviously it is sad what happened to the woman, but in the context of air travel, should this really be a media story?

- PS

you self obsessed ******** nothing nice to say execpt 'why should this be in the news',how about a condolence or something , of course it should be in the news the poor kid had to sit next to her mother whilst they landed ,and no you wouldnt have to do that on a bus or on the 'NYC subway',and it also educates people about flying and illness.

my deepest sympathy to the family.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: BCNGRO
Posted 2007-06-22 16:43:36 and read 6574 times.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 5):
About an hour into the flight from PMI to LTN would have you much closer to Paris, why turn back to BCN?

Yes, that is probably inaccurate. Maybe they where some 30-45min into the flight and had to choose between BCN and TLS and decided to land in BCN.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Zeke
Posted 2007-06-22 21:44:19 and read 6410 times.

Quoting Skoker (Reply 16):
Does MedLink exist in the UK?

Medlink is based in the USA, but we can get them anywhere in the world that we have satellite communications coverage.

Quoting N908AW (Reply 23):
Not so fast...well at least not in America. I've been on a med emergency diversion (LAS-MSP on Sun Country diverting to FSD at 1am. weeeee) and the crew was extremely nice about it. Wish the pax coulda felt the same. However, your argument still could hold water...I'd chalk their caring about the person up as 1) It's more than likely in the FAR 121 rules, and 2) It's cheaper than dealing with lawyers.

No FAR 121 rule requires a diversion for an ill passenger. FAR rules do however exist for reckless behavior, which would be the case if a crew unnecessarily put the aircraft or the occupants in danger.

Quoting Christopherwoo (Reply 26):
erm... It is as simple as that. Any life threatening situation on board concerning anyone whether it be an adult or child means an immediate diversion to the NEAREST airport. They wouldn't have planned out which was more convenient for them to land at, it would have been the nearest airport and the quickest to get to. Believe me, i've had a few medical emergencies while working for easyJet

Let me pose a scenario to you……

Flying JFK-HKG over the north pole just passed the position ABERI on the Polar 1 track, the crew receive a call from the cabin crew to say that a passenger has shortness of breath, and has difficulty breathing, light skin color with a blue lips. The crew have tried to seek if a doctor is onboard, the have found someone with limited medical training, but are not able to verify their qualifications.

A quick consultation with the FMC shows the 3 closest airports being Longyear (LYR), Khatanga (HTG), and Alykel (NSK).

The weather at the 3 airports is fairly typical for winter with temperatures below -30 degC, with gusty 42kt cross wind, the wind chill factor would bring temperature below -50 degC. The forecast visibility below what would normally be required for a CAT 1 ILS due to driving snow storms. Runways surface conditions are reported to have poor braking due to the layer of ice built up on the pavement. Being winter the days are very short, it is in the middle of the Arctic night.

Before leaving JFK a catering truck damages the inlet flap for the APU making it unserviceable for the trip and delaying the departure and taking the crew into into discretion as the duty time will be in excess of 18 hours. Only a few hours into your 16 hr flight the aircraft is still well above maximum landing weight, any landing now be above maximum landing weight unless fuel is dumped. Outside air temperatures a very cold, and only one Arctic survival suit is carried onboard. Survival time in the present conditions outside without protection would be a few minutes at best, without engines or APU running, passengers would be at risk of freezing in the cabin within 30 minutes. The fuel temperature in the tanks is just 7 degC above its freezing point of -48 degC. Recent solar activity makes HF communication impossible, outside VHF coverage, and satellite communications not available at such high latitudes.

The crew look up the details for the airports,LRY/ENSB is noted in the port pages to have a serious threat of terrain, and the airport is only available for emergency use by company aircraft. An ILS serves only one end of the runway, and due to the terrain the ILS minima is 730', 48 PR is required, the ATC operates day only. RW 10/28 is 2319 x 45 meters, and with the 5200 m needed on a icy runway to stop, and company SOP preventing landing on runways with braking action reported as poor.

They look up the details for HTG/UOHH, they discover that no charts are carried onboard for that airport as it is not is approved for use by company aircraft even in an emergency, the runway is 2704 x 48 meters, with a low PCN making the possibility of aircraft or pavement damage possible. ILS is NOTAM U/S, making the only approach available being the circling NDB.

They look up the details for NSK/UOOO, they discover that no charts are carried onboard for that airport either as it is not is approved for use by company aircraft even in an emergency, the runway is 3430 x 45 meters, ILS is serviceable.

The airports are not used to having such large aircraft, no suitable tugs or tow bars, steps, gates, or under wing refuelling facilities are available.

You are the Captain, what would you do ? What is your priorities ?

What are your considerations ? Would you change your comments in your post above ?

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: FlyTUITravel
Posted 2007-06-22 21:48:37 and read 6399 times.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
No airline or pilot is going to put the life of one passenger above the rest of the passengers, crew, or aircraft.

What a SICK thing to say!


FLYTUITRAVEL.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Tavong
Posted 2007-06-22 22:08:05 and read 6356 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 38):
Again, leg(s) swollen with shortness of breath with sudden change in mental staus (the "unconsciousness" referred to in the article) is DVT and PE until proven otherwise. Period, end of story. CHF exacerbation rarely leads to sudden unconsciousness; if she had had that much edema, she would likely be foaming pink, frothy sputum at the mouth prior to death (maybe she did but the article didn't mention it??). Remember, I said I was making a bet based on the limited facts that I have; I make these bets all day long at work BUT I do have lab tests to support or refute my bets in an emergency department.

I tend to agree. In these conditions the most likely option is a PE. Anyway has Cha747 said it´s very difficult to say other thing. a CHF really is possible if the patient has an history if that illness, exacrbbated by the cabin enviroment it could easily exacerbate a CHF, but in anycase it would be easily noted and a emergency treatment would save her life.

In these conditions the most likely cause of death was PE. Anyway i´m stil ltrying to think if the Doctor on the airport could suspect these illness before she boarded the plane. (well i have my answer but i think is better not to say here).

On other hands Cha747, nice to see you again in the forums. Long time no medical things to discuss here.

Gus
SKBO

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: LTBEWR
Posted 2007-06-23 02:33:50 and read 6184 times.

Hopefully, when the woman got to a hospital at the diversion city or when she got back home to the UK, there was an autopcy done to determine what happened to her for the family as well as the medical community.

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-06-23 05:05:24 and read 6118 times.

Gus,

Damn good to see you as well!

Topic: RE: Woman Dies On EasyJet Flight
Username: EDICHC
Posted 2007-06-23 15:36:53 and read 5982 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 38):
Again, leg(s) swollen with shortness of breath with sudden change in mental staus (the "unconsciousness" referred to in the article) is DVT and PE until proven otherwise.

Perhaps this may be protocol where you practise but exactly the same symptoms may present in a patient travelling by air who has Congestive Cardiac Failure, Mitral Valve Disease and or Atrial Fibrillation. Similar pre-crisis symptoms and then suddenly an embolous breaks off from the Mitral Valve with the heart under increased stress, then sudden loss of consciousness due to catastrophic CVA. I'm not saying I would rule out PE I'm just not convinced of the certainty.

Quoting Tavong (Reply 46):
Anyway i´m stil ltrying to think if the Doctor on the airport could suspect these illness before she boarded the plane. (well i have my answer but i think is better not to say here).

 checkmark 

Just along the same lines as i was thinking....


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