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Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-06-30 07:24:36 and read 5671 times.

Just heard from LH NY area management, YYZ-DUS announced with a 330 5 x weekly! Not Sure if its posted, just got back from work dead tired didnt check, but if it isnt, then this is the news, they are really starting to spend the money...

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: LHboyatDTW
Posted 2007-06-30 08:59:24 and read 5560 times.

Wow I was expecting either JFK or ORD first but congrats to YYZ for getting this service.

I'm really curious on what routes they'd do out of STR. Any guesses? JFK? ORD? IAD?

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Copaair737
Posted 2007-06-30 09:11:12 and read 5533 times.

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 1):
I'm really curious on what routes they'd do out of STR. Any guesses? JFK? ORD? IAD?

JFK or IAD seem like logical choices.

ORD could work as well, but the other two would come before ORD, JMVHO.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Ba777-236
Posted 2007-06-30 09:24:14 and read 5504 times.

And this is in addition to the 7X YYZ-Frankfurt flights I presume?

If so, great news! Good to see another international carrier going twice daily here.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: TriStar500
Posted 2007-06-30 09:27:28 and read 5498 times.

YYZ was served by AC several times weekly throughout the 80s and early 90s, so this route has been operated before with some success. I suppose due to the competition with the daily AB/LT-flight to JFK, the remaining NYC market apart from the daily Privatair Business Class-flight is too low yielding to warrant another A330 on this route.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Leskova
Posted 2007-06-30 09:31:25 and read 5488 times.

Hmm... is this really an official announcement? Because I haven't heard anything over here yet; and while I wouldn't call this route impossible, I still somehow don't see LH starting this route yet...

While I thought the same of the recently announced MCO-route, it was primarily the DUS-MCO idea that I considered unlikely... DUS-YYZ sounds strange to my ears as well...

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Aad665
Posted 2007-06-30 09:41:30 and read 5467 times.

Seems strange to me on operational basis. Make more sense if they codeshare with AC (operated by AC).

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-06-30 10:59:59 and read 5334 times.

It makes much more sense indeed for AC to operate this hub to spoke route. For LH, it would be the odd one out spoke to * hub operqated by an isolated 333, which would require at least one dus-.fra ops in each direction per week.

In any case, if LH starts operating from secondary hub, DUS with its catchment area is the first choice and other * hubs will be the logical choice, which would rule out JFK.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Airevents
Posted 2007-06-30 13:51:43 and read 5115 times.

So where is the official announcement here? I think the thread topic is a bit misleading. I hear a lot of things on board LH planes from colleagues, many rumours about new routes. But those are nothing more than just rumours, so I would not call it "LH announces". DUS-YYZ has not been one of them by the way...

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-06-30 15:14:31 and read 4973 times.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 5):

Posted in the LH office in YYZ, I am not going to take it off the bulletin board and photocopy it and scan it to give you guys proof!

The other announcement on it was of course the FRA MCO one.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-06-30 15:15:48 and read 4973 times.

Quoting Airevents (Reply 8):

Yes it is, its an internal announcement here in the Americas.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: MSYYZ
Posted 2007-06-30 15:19:10 and read 4961 times.

Doesn't LH fly some long-haul routes out of MUC ? Wouldn't it make more sense to fly MUC-YYZ instead ?

[Edited 2007-06-30 15:29:40]

[Edited 2007-06-30 15:30:10]

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-06-30 15:20:15 and read 4953 times.

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 11):

It would but apparently since they codeshare with AC on it, AC was not interested in giving it up

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: JoFMO
Posted 2007-06-30 15:53:58 and read 4875 times.

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 9):
Posted in the LH office in YYZ, I am not going to take it off the bulletin board and photocopy it and scan it to give you guys proof!

Tell us more what is written on this board. I am very exited...

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYACYYZ
Posted 2007-06-30 15:59:05 and read 4848 times.

Does this mean that LTU will be cutting back on its YYZ-DUS summer flights? Not sure if there's enough market to support both LH & LTU.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-06-30 15:59:06 and read 4848 times.

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 9):
Posted in the LH office in YYZ, I am not going to take it off the bulletin board and photocopy it and scan it to give you guys proof!

Proof to backup this information?

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 10):
Yes it is, its an internal announcement here in the Americas

Again, do you have proof to backup this information?

Quoting Airevents (Reply 8):
So where is the official announcement here? I think the thread topic is a bit misleading.

It is very misleading.. Cant the moderators change to the title of the thread to either rumor, or delete it?

-JD

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: JoFMO
Posted 2007-06-30 16:04:36 and read 4828 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 15):
Cant the moderators change to the title of the thread to either rumor, or delete it?

No deletion please, the topic to interesting to be deleted.

Topic: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: JAGflyer
Posted 2007-06-30 16:12:28 and read 4801 times.

What kind of market does YYZ-DUS have? Business or Vacation?

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-06-30 16:42:39 and read 4746 times.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 16):
No deletion please, the topic to interesting to be deleted

Intersting Yes... But True?

There is little or no evidence to back up the basis of this topic..

-JD

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: STARalliance24
Posted 2007-06-30 16:55:08 and read 4725 times.

It could aswell be YUL-DUSBig grin

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: CayMan
Posted 2007-06-30 17:16:57 and read 4686 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 18):
There is little or no evidence to back up the basis of this topic..

Is that all you do is post the same repetitive where is the evidence" routine?

Last I checked this was not a bench trial with you sitting as judge.

I have no idea whether the information is correct or incorrect and as yet it has not been substantiated with a formal announcement. But we have a least two posters who are citing a reasonable source for this. It strikes me as a little nervy for you to demand "proof" to your apparent satisfaction failing which the thread should be deleted.

if every a/net thread were held to some "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard you apparently demand, there would not be too much to talk about here. It's a DISCUSSION forum buddy--if you don't like the topic read something else but please do not request to have it censored because of your baseless demand for "evidence".

Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but for now it's an interesting topic.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: LHUSA
Posted 2007-06-30 17:56:02 and read 4618 times.

The reason there is no announcement is because it was an internal memo and extermely confidential. I wouldn't expect a summer route to be announced publicly for at least 3-4 more months.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Humberside
Posted 2007-06-30 19:21:47 and read 4527 times.

Would this be part of a larger LH expansion at DUS? Out of all the long haul routes LH could open themselves (i.e. not PrivatAir), YYZ isn't the first destination you would think off

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: OTOPS
Posted 2007-06-30 20:39:52 and read 4396 times.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 14):
Does this mean that LTU will be cutting back on its YYZ-DUS summer flights? Not sure if there's enough market to support both LH & LTU.

My thoughts exactly. Dusseldorf and Frankfurt aren't even that far apart. Doesn't seem like a huge advantage to fly into DUS over FRA. I always wondered why there wasn't a scheduled YYZ-HAM or YYZ-STR. Hamburg is the second largest city in Germany yet is seemingly ignored and Stuttgart is the heart of hugely industrialized Baden-Wurttemburg. Yes I know that Dusseldorf is in the densely populated Ruhrgebiet but it just isnt that far from FRA.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Morvious
Posted 2007-06-30 21:47:47 and read 4227 times.

DUS is a nice airfield and could track some people from Holland to. Although Schiphol is closer from my home, it will only take 15/30 minutes more to reach DUS. Also, DUS has some great service. Last time I picked someone up from DUS, he had his suitcase within 5 minutes and was standing next to us withing 10 minutes after landing.

Very intresting to see what LH has planned from DUS in the next comming years.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2007-06-30 22:57:57 and read 4035 times.

I don't think ORD or NYC would be more likely destinations. The whole exercise is a poorly disguised reaction to the emergence of AB/LT as a serious long-haul contender particularly out of DUS. So the first concern will be to hurt AB/LT as much as possible by serving LT's destinations rather than upgrading existing LH destinations from BBJ to A330-300s. So first choices must be the US west coast, Canada and Florida.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Fly_yhm
Posted 2007-06-30 23:44:54 and read 3909 times.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 20):
Is that all you do is post the same repetitive where is the evidence" routine?

Last I checked this was not a bench trial with you sitting as judge.

I have no idea whether the information is correct or incorrect and as yet it has not been substantiated with a formal announcement. But we have a least two posters who are citing a reasonable source for this. It strikes me as a little nervy for you to demand "proof" to your apparent satisfaction failing which the thread should be deleted.

if every a/net thread were held to some "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard you apparently demand, there would not be too much to talk about here. It's a DISCUSSION forum buddy--if you don't like the topic read something else but please do not request to have it censored because of your baseless demand for "evidence".

Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but for now it's an interesting topic.

Well Said


As far this possible route just more more thing for me to take photos off.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-07-01 05:47:11 and read 3465 times.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 16):

Thank you guys who support me here, some people really I feel come on airliners to act as disrupters, they seem to not log on to enjoy the info provided to discuss and have a good time rather are so bitter, what is wrong with you people?

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-07-01 05:48:37 and read 3463 times.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 13):

Thanks JoFMO

Also on the bulletin board was EWR-DUS

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Avianca
Posted 2007-07-01 05:53:28 and read 3459 times.

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 28):
Thanks JoFMO

Also on the bulletin board was EWR-DUS

asking me if it is the right way to inform about internas of an airline... btw, EWR-DUS is already offered by LH using the Privat Jet produkt...

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DABTH747
Posted 2007-07-01 05:59:21 and read 3450 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 29):

yes your right I forgot to mention it would be upgraded to an A330

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Zenarcade
Posted 2007-07-01 06:45:28 and read 3411 times.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 20):
Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but for now it's an interesting topic.

 checkmark 

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 17):
What kind of market does YYZ-DUS have? Business or Vacation?

Good question. Isn't Düsseldorf in close proximity to Germanys main tech industry areas? I know a few people who travel to Germany on business and I believe they travel to this part of the country.

For those interested the level of detail for DUS on Google Maps is amazing.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: JoFMO
Posted 2007-07-01 11:46:32 and read 3280 times.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 29):
asking me if it is the right way to inform about internas of an airline... btw, EWR-DUS is already offered by LH using the Privat Jet produkt...

I would not post it on a bulletin board when I want to keep it secret. You never know what kind of external people pass this board during the day. You don't post confidential information on the floor, at least I wouldn't  Wink



Quoting Zenarcade (Reply 31):
Good question. Isn't Düsseldorf in close proximity to Germanys main tech industry areas? I know a few people who travel to Germany on business and I believe they travel to this part of the country.

Main tech area not exactly. But DUS is the capital of Germans most populated state (16 Mill) and has a lot of head office functions for more traditional industries, But is also one of the biggest consultant city.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Jimyvr
Posted 2007-07-01 11:56:13 and read 3260 times.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 20):
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 18):
There is little or no evidence to back up the basis of this topic..

Is that all you do is post the same repetitive where is the evidence" routine?

Because if he doesn't know anything or read it wrong, he wants it to be deleted.

LH did flew DUS-YYZ (if i wasn't wrong) in the 80s so I guess they want to give it a try one more time.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 22):
Would this be part of a larger LH expansion at DUS?

I would assume that it the case, otherwise it doesn't make sense to base 1 single 330 just for this route only.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: LXA340
Posted 2007-07-01 12:19:27 and read 3240 times.

Quoting DABTH747 (Reply 30):
yes your right I forgot to mention it would be upgraded to an A330

Yes, so the Privatair service wll be cancelled from when, will it be used for another route? I gues at first it does sound a bit strange that YYZ is offered from DUS but then again unlike JFK or many other airports where almost every airline flies into YYZ is still a bit more in a monopoly situation with less competion. On the other hand LH / Star Alliance fly to various destinations from DUS within Europe which could be used as feader traffic also LH flies for instance from DUS to Newcastle and not from any other german airport does anybody know why? I also gues there is no point to offer YYZ from MUC as AC is offering the route already and from DUS only LH would do so.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Vfw614
Posted 2007-07-01 12:53:00 and read 3205 times.

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 34):
n the other hand LH / Star Alliance fly to various destinations from DUS within Europe which could be used as feader traffic also LH flies for instance from DUS to Newcastle and not from any other german airport does anybody know why?

NCL-DUS was more or less built up from the NCL end by local airline Gill Air that cooperated with (then) independent German regional airline Eurowings. Lufthansa more or less inherited the well established route when Gill went under post 9/11.

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 34):
Yes, so the Privatair service wll be cancelled from when, will it be used for another route?

Probably, but not necessarily from DUS. Now that MUC-EWR is upgraded to an A330, the BBJ used there will be shifted from MUC to FRA.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: LXA340
Posted 2007-07-01 16:58:23 and read 3079 times.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 35):
Probably, but not necessarily from DUS. Now that MUC-EWR is upgraded to an A330, the BBJ used there will be shifted from MUC to FRA.

Which flights will it operate from FRA also to EWR? Are there any plans to introduce NCL also from FRA or MUC?

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYACYYZ
Posted 2007-07-01 20:20:21 and read 2981 times.

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 21):
The reason there is no announcement is because it was an internal memo and extermely confidential

I'm sure that LH management is pleased to know that a confidential inter-office memo has been leaked.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2007-07-01 21:55:16 and read 2914 times.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 4):
YYZ was served by AC several times weekly throughout the 80s and early 90s



Quoting Leskova (Reply 5):
DUS-YYZ sounds strange to my ears as well...

AC (then TCA) started service to DUS in 1952. It was their 2nd destination in continental Europe after Paris which began a year earlier. A major part of their traffic then comprised immigrants to Canada. The used the DC-4M North Star then, the Canadair-built pressurized version of the DC-4 with Rolls-Royce Merlin engines and some early DC-6 features. It was replaced by the Super Constellation in the mid-50s, then the DC-8 in the early 1960s.

If not mistaken, AC was the only scheduled transatlantic carrier to DUS for quite a few years. It was AC's only destination in Germany for more than a decade as they didn't have traffic rights to FRA until the mid-1960s when they moved from DUS to FRA. As already mentioned they reinstated DUS service for a few years from the mid-80s to early '90s. They also briefly served Berlin in the mid-90s. Both DUS and BER were eliminated when they began cooperating and code-sharing with LH.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Günter Grondstein
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Photo © Frank Schaefer



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Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages
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Photo © Frank Schaefer


The 1962 date shown for the DC-8 photo is wrong. They didn't take delivery of their first DC-8-54CF Combi until early 1963. AC was the launch customer and first operator of that model.

[Edited 2007-07-01 22:03:30]

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYACYYZ
Posted 2007-07-01 23:06:25 and read 2865 times.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
As already mentioned they reinstated DUS service for a few years from the mid-80s to early '90s.

DUS was reinstated during the late 80's as part of a huge wave of European expansion under the leadership of then CEO Pierre Jeanniot, which included cities such as NCE/GVA/LIS/MAD/ATH/LYS, etc. During peak season the flight operated daily on the 747/74M/L10/L15 as an extension of AC856 YYZ-LHR and AC866 YMX-LHR. As pointed out these secondary routes faced extinction as cooperation (pre-Star Alliance) was forged with other airlines such as LH.

Based on the number of connections off our FRA flights, think a joint Dusseldorf/Berlin flight could do well. As a stand alone DUS flight during the winter months..not so sure.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-07-02 01:00:30 and read 2820 times.

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 33):
Because if he doesn't know anything or read it wrong, he wants it to be deleted

If there is nothing to back up something that is stated as fact it indeed should be deleted, the same goes for an opinion that is stated as a fact without evidence to substantiate. If the fact is a rumor, just say it is a rumor.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 20):
Is that all you do is post the same repetitive where is the evidence" routine?

There was something in the forum rules regarding facts to back up statements..

Quoting CayMan (Reply 20):
if every a/net thread were held to some "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" standard you apparently demand, there would not be too much to talk about here. It's a DISCUSSION forum buddy--if you don't like the topic read something else but please do not request to have it censored because of your baseless demand for "evidence".

There is no need to be so rude..

There is not a problem posting something that has been mentioned as fact with the proper evidence referred to backup that assertion of evidence as being fact. In the short time I have been on here I have seen a number of posts and topics saying that on xx date their will be a big announcement, and nothing happens. The same goes for the amount of time that we have heard rumors time and time again such as xx airline is merging with xx airline, or xx airline is order xx 787 equipment. The most recent had to do with American Airlines ordering over 100 787 frames. It is just inproper to post something that is false or un-fact based. If it cannot be backed up, why would it be so hard to say there is a rumor, and the rumor is..

Happy Flying to all, hope to not have rained on a parade anyone may have been marching in!

-JD

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: ACDC8
Posted 2007-07-02 01:11:45 and read 2806 times.

YYZ-DUS would also be great for those of us living on the west coast of Canada, it'll give us another option (especially those of us who use DUS as a final destination) instead of going through LHR or FRA with LH/AC. It would be a bit more passenger friendly (fatique wise) flying YVR-YYZ-DUS as opposed to flying YVR-FRA-DUS.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-07-02 01:53:29 and read 2791 times.

I must add to my above posting that indeed it would be nice to see LH spread it wings further into Canada, as their is a lot of potential in the market that would seem to have been ignored until only recent years.

-JD

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: CayMan
Posted 2007-07-02 02:04:19 and read 2781 times.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 40):
There is no need to be so rude..

There is not a problem posting something that has been mentioned as fact with the proper evidence referred to backup that assertion of evidence as being fact. In the short time I have been on here I have seen a number of posts and topics saying that on xx date their will be a big announcement, and nothing happens. The same goes for the amount of time that we have heard rumors time and time again such as xx airline is merging with xx airline, or xx airline is order xx 787 equipment. The most recent had to do with American Airlines ordering over 100 787 frames. It is just improper to post something that is false or un-fact based. If it cannot be backed up, why would it be so hard to say there is a rumor, and the rumor is..

I did not intend to be rude and if that is how you took it I regret that. Perhaps I was too pointed, it's just that I am at a loss to fully understand what your main complaint is here: if it is that the thread title is misleading then I can see some merit in that as it appears on the title that LH YYZ DUS is a fait accompli and I would agree that there is no evidence to confirm that at this point and may never be. But if your complaint is more broad, i.e. that the whole thread itself is inappropriate because of a lack of "evidence" then that is where I take exception. This whole forum is based, much of the time, on opinion. Some of the opinion is great, some good and lots of varying degrees of bad but that's what a discussion forum is. If your point is that there should be no discussion of the merits, potential and possibility of a new LH route from YYZ DUS because there is no formal announcement yet, I cannot agree with that.

as stated above, credible posters have stated they have reason to believe that the route is going to happen. That may not be evidence as such but it is enough to justify what is, I would submit, an otherwise interesting discussion of it even if it never does happen.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FLYGUY767
Posted 2007-07-02 02:10:25 and read 2777 times.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 43):
I did not intend to be rude and if that is how you took it I regret that.

Sorry, I did not mean to get so huffy if it seemed that way. You have a very valid point, I was just really let down a week or so ago when there was an entire thread about how American Airlines was going to debut some huge order at Paris. Adding fuel to fire it was another thread that was stated as fact that ended up being much ado about nothing. The same was the case when same grand new route was going to debut from Dallas. When in turn all it turned out to be was a move from Gatwick to Heathrow by British Airways..

In any case happy flying to you..

-JD

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: DALCE
Posted 2007-07-02 11:40:52 and read 2661 times.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 37):
The reason there is no announcement is because it was an internal memo and extermely confidential

I'm sure that LH management is pleased to know that a confidential inter-office memo has been leaked

Although I like these rumours, it's just not acceptable that people are leaking such information.
We all have knowledge of items which we can't share.

Topic: RE: LH YYZ-DUS Summer 08?
Username: FraT
Posted 2007-07-02 13:29:27 and read 2585 times.

If this flight is really coming, I would assume that it is a summer only flight just like the MUC-YUL service.


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