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Topic: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2007-07-19 19:19:14 and read 4577 times.

Looks like ILG will be once again without scheduled airline service after Sept. 5.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...70719/NEWS/707190352/1003/BUSINESS

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: DeltaDAWG
Posted 2007-07-19 19:27:12 and read 4546 times.

No surprise here.

Cost structure and available flights alone did more than anything to kill service.

Drive 20 more minutes and get to PHL!

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: National757
Posted 2007-07-19 19:36:18 and read 4505 times.

Looks like this is the perfect airport for an Allegiant or SkyBus type of operation. Wonder if we will see either of them at ILG any time soon?

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Apodino
Posted 2007-07-20 09:04:57 and read 4128 times.

Hmmm, article also says they are pulling out of ERI, BGM, and MTH.

I think Delta could have made this work, They didn't market the service well enough. I agree with a statement in the article that said, people will travel out of ILG for 30-50 dollars more just to avoid PHL. I think this is true in a lot more places then airlines realize, and they have some huge untapped markets that could be real moneymakers.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Tsnamm
Posted 2007-07-20 15:47:03 and read 4020 times.

ILG is also closer to most to the DelMarVa peninsula as well as NE Maryland, than any other airport. Surely between Wilmington, the southern PHL suburbs and this area ILG service should work, if properly marketed.

[Edited 2007-07-20 15:48:55]

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2007-07-20 18:50:26 and read 3918 times.

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 4):
Surely between Wilmington, the southern PHL suburbs and this area ILG service should work, if properly marketed.

... and properly priced.

Passengers might be willing pay a little more for the convenience of flying out of ILG (~$50) but NOT a significantly higher amount... especailly if the same airline operates out of PHL and/or BWI.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: RobertS975
Posted 2007-07-20 20:28:19 and read 3839 times.

When DL terminates the DL Connection service to ILG, it will no longer serve all 50 states.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: EXAAUADL
Posted 2007-07-20 20:36:51 and read 3829 times.

I knew this wouldnt work.....thse types of cites cannot support airservice when a large airport like PHL is nearby. People prefer to drive 25 miles and fly nonstopo rather than connect on a RJ thru ATL.

I hope SLE doesnt meet the same fate.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Micstatic
Posted 2007-07-20 21:16:40 and read 3788 times.

One thing to consider guys. Delta is putting planes where they are MOST profitable. One can't assume New Castle was a failure. Delta just realized they could make more money using those planes somewhere else. I do realize load factors weren't ideal...

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: MtnWest1979
Posted 2007-07-20 23:41:00 and read 3716 times.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
I hope SLE doesnt meet the same fate

At least not until all the incentives expire and money dries up.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: RobertS975
Posted 2007-07-20 23:51:18 and read 3703 times.

It is entirely possible that there was a travel bank subsidy on this route to defray costs, and once the subsidy terminates, the route goes away.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Vega
Posted 2007-07-21 00:13:12 and read 3681 times.

I always thought this service would have had a better chance if DL flew one flight to CVG or JFK instead of both to ATL. It didn't really offer any incentive to anyone flying East of STL and North of CLT. Who wants to backtrack through ATL to get to ORD or BOS or DTW, etc.. I assume they thought the majority of their loads would be non-stop PHL-ATL Metro flyers who would alternately choose ILG - although that seems a bit unreasonable since DL has 9-10 daily PHL-ATL non-stops of which 7 are 757s. Guess it was just an experiment.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: DelawareUSA
Posted 2007-07-24 22:49:31 and read 3511 times.

too bad Delta is backing out. But this is more then a ILG issue. It was the only scheduled flight to Delaware

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Rampart
Posted 2007-07-24 23:50:47 and read 3449 times.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 6):
When DL terminates the DL Connection service to ILG, it will no longer serve all 50 states.

United had the same thing in the 80s, except that I think they used 727s into ILG. I don't know where they flew in ND, NH, or VT to be able to cover all 50.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
I knew this wouldnt work.....thse types of cites cannot support airservice when a large airport like PHL is nearby. People prefer to drive 25 miles and fly nonstopo rather than connect on a RJ thru ATL.

But if you flew DL from PHL you'd still have to transfer in one of their hubs, like ATL or CVG. ILG is just a spoke like PHL for DL and any other airline not hubbed in PHL. Alternative airports do well enough when they are marketed and priced fairly: HPN, ISP, COS, BUR, OAK, PBI, DAL, HOU, TOL, CAK, MHT.

-Rampart

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-07-25 00:00:36 and read 3423 times.

Problems with the service (I flew one way ATL-ILG in February 2007)

1. The car rental counters are next to and more impressive than the Delta Counter.
2. Odd flight times
3. CRJ's used on a route that probably should have been run by an ATR

The flight was mostly empty. In addition to my family, there were several non-revvers. I talked with a few of them and these were people who lived in and around Philly who said that using ILG made it easier for them to do non-rev travel through ATL.

What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service. Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: KcrwFlyer
Posted 2007-07-25 00:19:10 and read 3412 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
3. CRJ's used on a route that probably should have been run by an ATR

Seriosuly? Why?

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service. Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!

You think itd be simple for a helicopter company to set up agreements with all of the airlines in PHL, open a station in ILG, and fly those pax to the terminal in PHL?

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2007-07-25 00:39:37 and read 3384 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service.

Excuse my ignorance but I thought Manhattan-JFK helicopter service was abandoned following a 1977 crash of one of those copters (under contract w/PA at the time IIRC).

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!

As it was mentioned earlier, since DL does not hub out of PHL and not all DL passengers are o/d-ing at ATL; why would anyone add an extra connection/stop WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO... especially at PHL? You're forgetting about the "We're number 20 for take-off." that's often associated w/PHL.

You're also forgetting that the primary purpose of ILG service was to avoid the crowds and delays at PHL.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-07-25 00:47:24 and read 3376 times.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 15):
Seriosuly? Why?

My simple mind assumes that the operating costs (read: fuel costs) of the ATR's is substantially less than that of a CRJ. Assuming that the ATR has a lower CASM than a CRJ, a half-filled CRJ will generate less revenue than a similarly filled ATR. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 15):
You think itd be simple for a helicopter company to set up agreements with all of the airlines in PHL, open a station in ILG, and fly those pax to the terminal in PHL?

The use of the word "simple" in my final sentence was sarcasm. It wouldn't be simple to set it up; it would be damn difficult. But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way to not have to deal with the snaking check-in lines, parking situation, and bullcrap that I have to put-up with from PHL's TSA. These are the precise reason that Delawareans rejoiced when DL decided to drop-in. But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG? That is the attitude that those who rejoiced faced when they tried to book an ILG-ATL-FLL flight, for example and the price was double WN. I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium, but Joe Average Traveler will weather the lines in order to save a buck.

[Edited 2007-07-25 01:00:34]

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Cha747
Posted 2007-07-25 00:56:07 and read 3357 times.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
Excuse my ignorance but I thought Manhattan-JFK helicopter service was abandoned following a 1977 crash of one of those copters (under contract w/PA at the time IIRC).

Your ignorance is excused  Smile

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10701

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
"We're number 20 for take-off." that's often associated w/PHL.

Precisely why I'd want to check-in and pass security at ILG. A helicopter does not have to wait in line to land or take-off at PHL. It just lands and takes off. The backside of "number 20 for take-off" is number 150 in line at the US check-in and number 200 and back to the parking garage in line at security. Granted, if you have elite status you can bypass both of those lines, but why would I take the hassle of PHL when I can park my car for FREE at ILG and get from curbside to airside in 15 minutes? Once I'm airside at ILG, I'm airside at PHL (or JFK or wherever you want to go to) assuming weather is not an issue.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: KcrwFlyer
Posted 2007-07-25 01:01:29 and read 3349 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
My simple mind assumes that the operating costs (read: fuel costs) of the ATR's is substantially less than that of a CRJ. Assuming that the ATR has a lower CASM than a CRJ, a half-filled CRJ will generate less revenue than a similarly filled ATR. Please correct me if I am wrong.

On a route that long, the amount of time the ATR will spend in the air starts to offset its lower fuel burn. The longer a route, the less effecient a turboprop is over a jet.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
The use of the word "simple" in my final sentence was sarcasm. It wouldn't be simple to set it up; it would be damn difficult. But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way to not have to deal with the snaking check-in lines, parking situation, and bullcrap that I have to put-up with from PHL's TSA. These are the precise reason that Delawareans rejoiced when DL decided to drop-in. But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG? I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium.

So essentially.. you're paying a premium to not deal with the hassle of long lines and garage parking? Not something id dream up, but that type of thing may work.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: PHLBOS
Posted 2007-07-25 01:04:19 and read 3340 times.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way

From one of the StoryChat quotes from the original article:

In this post 911 era, a major carrier such as Delta could have made money by charging only $30-$50 more per roundtrip than out of phl or bwi. People looking for convenience, fewer hassles and free parking probably could of filled an airbus if Delta had adopted competitive pricing.

Note: that the poster stated $30 to $50; NOT $150 to $300 that you're willing to pay.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG?

I didn't know WN flew or hubbed out of ATL    ; competition w/FL's the main reason why PHL-ATL & BWI-ATL fares are more reasonably priced.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium.

That may be you; but not everyone (including one's company/firm, if it's a business-related trip) is willing to pay that much more money. Keep in mind that airlines aren't the only ones trying to keep their costs down.

Edited to add:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 18):
The backside of "number 20 for take-off" is number 150 in line at the US check-in and number 200 and back to the parking garage in line at security.

While that may be true for US, I don't believe that the number 150 in line applies for DL's PHL operations; not to mention that DL does not use the same terminal & security checkpoints as US.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 18):
Once I'm airside at ILG, I'm airside at PHL (or JFK or wherever you want to go to) assuming weather is not an issue.

One of the biggest issues regarding delays at PHL is indeed weather-related.

[Edited 2007-07-25 01:12:35]

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: Milesrich
Posted 2007-07-25 06:49:43 and read 3201 times.

United, when they served all 50 states, used 727's and 737's to serve MHT in NH, BTV in Vermont, and FAR in ND.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: DAL767400ER
Posted 2007-07-25 11:19:43 and read 3146 times.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 19):
On a route that long, the amount of time the ATR will spend in the air starts to offset its lower fuel burn. The longer a route, the less effecient a turboprop is over a jet.

Not to mention that the AT7s at DL seat quite a few more pax as well, 66 seats compared to the 40 on the CRJs that were operating to ILG. Okay, Delta could have combined the 3 CRJs to 2 AT7s, but even then, they would have added more seat (12, or 10%), and would have offered less frequency. That definitely would not have saved ILG.

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: BatonOps
Posted 2007-07-25 18:29:21 and read 3034 times.

Quoting Apodino (Reply 3):
Hmmm, article also says they are pulling out of ERI, BGM, and MTH.

BGM has already been announced and discussed on this board. This is the first I have heard about ERI.

DL Dropping BGM In September (by BatonOps Jul 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Topic: RE: DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2007-07-25 18:33:22 and read 3027 times.

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 23):

BGM has already been announced and discussed on this board. This is the first I have heard about ERI.

ERI is gone. It is no longer bookable. A few other destinations, south of the border might be discontinued as well. So far, Delta is ending ERI, MTH, BGM, ILG, MID, and TIJ in September. I've been told HMO is ending in September, but it is still bookable, so I don't know. I would have though HMO would be one of the stronger performers from LAX.


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