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Topic: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: El Al 001
Posted 2007-09-06 15:12:40 and read 10140 times.

Hi,

Seems to me that some of SQ 777s are getting to the age of withdrawal according with its fleet age standarts.

Im talking on SQ oldest 777s, the non-ER models which were built during the '90s.

Same goes with EK and CX.

What do you think?

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: CHRISBA777ER
Posted 2007-09-06 15:35:48 and read 10084 times.

When their new A333s start to arrive in SQ and CX's case I would say, and EK are desperate for the capacity so they may think twice about dumping their 772As - IIRC they only have three and they are both owned so they may stick around for a while at least.

In SQ and EK's case - some of their 772ERs are the same sort of age as their 772As so they may start to become available at the same sort of time. All Rolls-powered.

Are the LY 777s Trent-powered or do they have Pratts? I thought they were Rolls-powered. I take it you are thinking will LY pick them up when they come onto the market? I would think they'd be interested yes.

[Edited 2007-09-06 15:36:27]

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: PM
Posted 2007-09-06 15:41:10 and read 10060 times.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
Are the LY 777s Trent-powered or do they have Pratts? I thought they were Rolls-powered.

They are.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
I take it you are thinking will LY pick them up when they come onto the market?

El Al currently have 6 almost new 777-200ERs with RR but only the other day they said they want to have a fleet of almost double that size sooner or later. New-builds or retreads? Who knows, but used 777s will start appearing on the market sooner rather than later...

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: FlyTUITravel
Posted 2007-09-06 17:12:53 and read 9826 times.

Three EK 772s (A6-EMD/E/F I think) are leaving the fleet in June 2008, as far as I know.

 Smile

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-09-06 17:22:19 and read 9791 times.

777-200A rental rates have held stable ($400-510,000 per month) after a good rise, thanks to limited supply of available 772ERs (whose rates are about double). However the long-term value prospects for her are grim, so some good deals could be coming down the road.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-09-06 17:33:23 and read 9756 times.

SQ plan to start retiring their 777-200s in 2009 when the A330-300s start joining the fleet -- hopefully with new regional F/C seats.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Worldtraveler
Posted 2007-09-06 18:34:59 and read 9596 times.

At some point you have to think that it becomes financially feasible to convert 772As to 772ERs. I believe I am right (correct if you know otherwise) that the 772A and 772ER are structurally the same (same wings, landing gear etc) unlike the 777LR. Since airframes typically go through at least 2 sets of engines in their lifetimes (and there is a market for used engines anyway), it becomes prudent when 77A resale values drop enough to convert them based on the continued relatively higher price levels for the 772ER.

Airlines have converted other aircraft to ER types within the same family – DL did it on L1011s to create the L1011-250 which was a hybrid of the L1011-200 and -500. Given that the 772A and –ER are more similar, it should be an easier conversion.

Because the 772A is a heavy airplane for its mission (compared with the 330), it might be possible to give more life to early 772s while allowing some airlines that are hungry for growth to convert some early aircraft. In the meantime, airlines like SQ and EK will continue to buy new aircraft and get rid of them fairly early in their life.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Da man
Posted 2007-09-06 18:40:28 and read 9565 times.

Quoting Worldtraveler (Reply 6):

I believe AA did exactly what you suggest to a few of their 767-200s (they converted them to ER) but the capabilities of the aircraft were not up to the full capabilities of a new-build 762ER, IIRC.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2007-09-06 18:56:16 and read 9505 times.

Quoting Worldtraveler (Reply 6):
At some point you have to think that it becomes financially feasible to convert 772As to 772ERs. I believe I am right (correct if you know otherwise) that the 772A and 772ER are structurally the same (same wings, landing gear etc) unlike the 777LR.

Unfeasible due to the structural changes required to bring the 772A up to the 772ER operating weights. Some 772ER's are operated at 772A weights but a true 772A cannot operate at 772ER weights without considerable modification.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: LXA340
Posted 2007-09-06 20:51:42 and read 9330 times.

SQ's A333's will just be used for regional routes or also aimed for longer flights up to 9 hours or so? I gues they will get a 2 class config but not with a configuration found now in the B77W right? At least spacebeds should be put in in case they will be used on regional routes.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OceansWorld
Posted 2007-09-06 21:00:53 and read 9298 times.

Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s? 

Probably when they receive the A333s between 2009 and 2001. In 2009, the oldest B777s will have had 12 years of service with SQ.

Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
Im talking on SQ oldest 777s, the non-ER models which were built during the '90s.

The only non-ER aircraft are the thirteen -312. All the others are ER.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: PlaneHunter
Posted 2007-09-06 21:09:51 and read 9259 times.

Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
Im talking on SQ oldest 777s, the non-ER models which were built during the '90s.

SQ has never operated any B772A models - but B772ER models with different thrust and MTOW ratings.


PH

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2007-09-06 22:02:43 and read 9155 times.

Quoting El Al 001 (Thread starter):
Im talking on SQ oldest 777s, the non-ER models



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
In SQ and EK's case - some of their 772ERs are the same sort of age as their 772As

As previously stated, SQ has never operated the 772A.
It chooses, for whatever inane reason, not to identify the 9V-SQ* and 9V-SR* birds as 772ERs, despite the fact that they are--- just with a lower MTOW than the 9V-SV* series, which is easily changeable on paper.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-09-06 22:40:48 and read 9085 times.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
(SQ) chooses, for whatever inane reason, not to identify the 9V-SQ* and 9V-SR* birds as 772ERs, despite the fact that they are--- just with a lower MTOW than the 9V-SV* series, which is easily changeable on paper.

I seem to recall folks saying that Boeing and Airbus charge different prices for different MTOWs and that if you don't need all of it, many airlines certify at a lower MTOW to save some money, and then can "re-certify" at a higher MTOW as needed, cutting a check to Boeing/Airbus on the back end.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-06 22:41:18 and read 9085 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 8):
Unfeasible due to the structural changes required to bring the 772A up to the 772ER operating weights.

what specifically are the structural changes?

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2007-09-07 00:04:03 and read 8978 times.

Gauge up in the wing spars, ribs, and skins and landing gear revisions due to the higher MTOW.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Papatango
Posted 2007-09-07 00:16:37 and read 8949 times.

Delta is hungry for long range aircraft maybe they will pick up a few of these SQ 777's

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: BoeingBoy
Posted 2007-09-07 00:21:17 and read 8936 times.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
As previously stated, SQ has never operated the 772A.
It chooses, for whatever inane reason, not to identify the 9V-SQ* and 9V-SR* birds as 772ERs, despite the fact that they are--- just with a lower MTOW than the 9V-SV* series, which is easily changeable on paper.

If it walks like a DUCK and quacks like a DUCK - its a DUCK  butthead 

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Seabosdca
Posted 2007-09-07 00:32:08 and read 8903 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 15):
Gauge up in the wing spars, ribs, and skins and landing gear revisions due to the higher MTOW.

EK can just take care of that overnight at the gate, eh?  Wink Big grin

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-07 00:35:54 and read 8893 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 15):
Gauge up in the wing spars, ribs, and skins and landing gear revisions due to the higher MTOW.

not doubting that may be the case but I'm not sure that I've seen anything that supports that the 772ER is not structually the same. Do you have any support? The 772A is a beefy plane to begin with and the ER was long intended as the baseline plane. Further, most of the 772As were built after the 772ER was already being offered with the exception of some of UA's models. Many 772As were built within the last 10 years.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-09-07 00:43:14 and read 8868 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
not doubting that may be the case but I'm not sure that I've seen anything that supports that the 772ER is not structually the same.

Well the Operating Empty Weight is only 5,000lbs lighter for the 777-200A then the 777-200ER, but the ER's MTOW is 100,000lbs higher, so that 5K must be used darn wisely. Big grin

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2007-09-07 01:15:03 and read 8799 times.

Quoting Papatango (Reply 16):
Delta is hungry for long range aircraft maybe they will pick up a few of these SQ 777's

DL looked at that option heavily in both 2005 and this year...

...and basically decided it'd be lying buying a 2yr-old car with 199,000mi on it  Wink

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-07 02:48:10 and read 8577 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Well the Operating Empty Weight is only 5,000lbs lighter for the 777-200A then the 777-200ER

or more accurately that the 772A is overweight...compare the empty weight of the 772A to the A330. The whole reason why NW would not go with the 777 for Europe was because it is too heavy for a transatlantic aircraft.

Also, much of that 5000 pound weight difference could be attributable to the larger engines and the extra fuel tank which the 772ER surely has in comparison with the 772A.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Stitch
Posted 2007-09-07 03:00:13 and read 8465 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
or more accurately that the 772A is overweight...compare the empty weight of the 772A to the A330. The whole reason why NW would not go with the 777 for Europe was because it is too heavy for a transatlantic aircraft.

Well UA and a number of other airlines found (and find) the 777-200A to be "light enough" for trans-Atlantic operations.

But yes, Boeing might have been able to reduce the MEW of the 777-200A more, just as they could have with the 787-3 vis-a-vis the 787-8. The A340-300 is 20,000lbs heavier then the A330-300, which is about what the 777-200A carries over the A330-300.

But then maybe Boeing was stymied by the engines available at the time, which meant that while a 777-200A is almost a 777-200ER, she lacked the *oomph* on the wings to haul that extra 100,000lbs of payload/fuel. Airbus got around that by adding two more engines, but I wonder if the A330-300 could have had 90k engines, if her MEW would not have been close to 300,000lbs, as well...

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: United Airline
Posted 2007-09-07 03:04:44 and read 8429 times.

They will still be around for sometime I guess since they still very new

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-07 03:34:37 and read 8209 times.

true, Stitch, but it can also be said that the 777 was optimized to be a long-haul aircraft from the beginning and it just took engine technology to catch up. Note also that there isn't a significant jump in OEW for the 772LR and it DOES have structural differences as well as bigger engines and more fuel tanks.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2007-09-07 03:53:32 and read 8069 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
not doubting that may be the case but I'm not sure that I've seen anything that supports that the 772ER is not structually the same.

What source do you have for this statement? While the structural arrangement may be the same between the airplanes, not all the structural elements are interchangeable.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
Do you have any support?

Ask a 777 Structural engineer.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
or more accurately that the 772A is overweight...compare the empty weight of the 772A to the A330

The basic 777 wing area was sized to support an eventual 772LR/3ER. The A330 was not sized to the same criteria. That's why the A345/6 wing had to be extensively modified compared to the A330/340 wing while the 773ER/2LR is virtually the same size as the 77A wing (except for tip extensions).

The larger wing area drove extra OEW into the 77A configuration.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-07 04:29:12 and read 7797 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 26):
The basic 777 wing area was sized to support an eventual 772LR/3ER.



Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 26):
The larger wing area drove extra OEW into the 77A configuration.

You do realize you are just supporting my assertion that there is not anything structurally different, esp. in the wings between the 77A and 772ER, don't do?

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 26):
Ask a 777 Structural engineer.

I would presume from your statement in reply 15 that you know the specifics. Either you do know and can back up your statement or you don't know and aren't in a position to comment.

I asked a simple question. Either you have the definitive answer or you don't.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-09-07 05:21:55 and read 7442 times.

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 10):
The only non-ER aircraft are the thirteen -312.

SQ have twelve 777-300s (not including 777-300ERs).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
I'm not sure that I've seen anything that supports that the 772ER is not structually the same. Do you have any support? The 772A is a beefy plane to begin with and the ER was long intended as the baseline plane. Further, most of the 772As were built after the 772ER was already being offered with the exception of some of UA's models.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
Either you have the definitive answer or you don't.

The definitive answer is that the 777-200ERs are substantially different structurally from the 777-200s. I know for a fact that when UA ordered six 777-200s a few years after the last one had been produced they were hoping that Boeing would build them 777-200ERs de-rated to the 777-200's MTOW and were disappointed when Boeing actually built 777-200s.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Ktachiya
Posted 2007-09-07 05:44:57 and read 7283 times.

Its not only a matter of SQ but I presume that the older B777-200A variant in NH and JL are also close to 10-12 years old. Well, JL keeps good care of their aircraft and keeps them as long as possible, but I was wondering the same about NH, when is their older 777 going to leave the fleet.

I think someone stated once about the A333 being flown on 9 hour routes? I think that is pretty impossible without payload restrictions of some sort, especially during the winter. To my knowledge, AC flew the A333 across the Pacific once from YVR to NRT and that beacme big news.

I know its irrelevant here but do the B777 that have RR engines have the slow climb like the B744 that have the RR engines? I flew on a couple of domestic B777 in Japan that have PW engines and they climbed like a rocket. I think we climbed to FL240 in 5 minutes or so.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Da man
Posted 2007-09-07 05:49:23 and read 7256 times.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 29):
presume that the older B777-200A variant in NH and JL are also close to 10-12 years old. Well, JL keeps good care of their aircraft and keeps them as long as possible, but I was wondering the same about NH, when is their older 777 going to leave the fleet.

You are aware that JL took delivery of a 777-200A this year? I don't think they're going to be getting rid of their machines any time soon.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Ktachiya
Posted 2007-09-07 05:56:40 and read 7188 times.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 29):
JL keeps good care of their aircraft and keeps them as long as possible



Quoting Da man (Reply 30):
I don't think they're going to be getting rid of their machines any time soon.

I stated in the first post that proably JL would keep them for a long time. I was just wondering about NH. Yes and I agree again, I don't think they are going any time soon.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: PM
Posted 2007-09-07 06:23:46 and read 7048 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
they were hoping that Boeing would build them 777-200ERs de-rated to the 777-200's MTOW and were disappointed when Boeing actually built 777-200s.

"hoping"? "disappointed"? Are we given to understand that airlines place orders without actually talking to the manufacturer?!  Wink

What next?

UA were hoping that their new 777s would have PW4000s like the last lot but - bummer - when they opened the box Boeing had stuck GE90s on instead!

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-09-07 06:34:19 and read 6978 times.

Quoting PM (Reply 32):
"hoping"? "disappointed"? Are we given to understand that airlines place orders without actually talking to the manufacturer?!

Reading into whatever you'd like to imagine. I stand by what I wrote. UA were hoping that Boeing would find it more convenient to manufacture 777-200ERs and de-rate them than to go back to producing 777-200s. After the order was placed, there was a debate within Boeing on which to produce.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2007-09-07 06:34:27 and read 6979 times.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 29):
I know its irrelevant here but do the B777 that have RR engines have the slow climb like the B744 that have the RR engines?

...the Trent892 and Trent895 are both lighter and more powerful than any PW engine utilized on the 772ER. They have no such trouble relative to that powerplant.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2007-09-07 06:37:05 and read 6966 times.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
You do realize you are just supporting my assertion that there is not anything structurally different, esp. in the wings between the 77A and 772ER, don't do?

Just because the airplanes are structurally similar, it doesn't mean they are identical. Parts of the 772ER are beefed up to allow it to have a higher TOW than the 777A. As I said i Reply 15.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 15):
Gauge up in the wing spars, ribs, and skins and landing gear revisions due to the higher MTOW.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
I would presume from your statement in reply 15 that you know the specifics. Either you do know and can back up your statement or you don't know and aren't in a position to comment.

I have worked closely with Boeing Structural engineers as a consultant. The situation is just as I have stated. What's your knowledge base?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
I asked a simple question. Either you have the definitive answer or you don't.

I have the definitive answer and have stated it. You seem to have trouble accepting it.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
The definitive answer is that the 777-200ERs are substantially different structurally from the 777-200s. I know for a fact that when UA ordered six 777-200s a few years after the last one had been produced they were hoping that Boeing would build them 777-200ERs de-rated to the 777-200's MTOW and were disappointed when Boeing actually built 777-200s.

Thanks for the back up Zvezda.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: ConcordeBoy
Posted 2007-09-07 06:52:36 and read 6877 times.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 29):
To my knowledge, AC flew the A333 across the Pacific once from YVR to NRT and that beacme big news.

...why? Their A333s have opped (the longer) YVR-LHR for quite some time

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: XT6Wagon
Posted 2007-09-07 06:56:00 and read 6864 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 33):
Quoting PM (Reply 32):
"hoping"? "disappointed"? Are we given to understand that airlines place orders without actually talking to the manufacturer?!

Reading into whatever you'd like to imagine. I stand by what I wrote. UA were hoping that Boeing would find it more convenient to manufacture 777-200ERs and de-rate them than to go back to producing 777-200s. After the order was placed, there was a debate within Boeing on which to produce.

What PM doesn't understand is that people all the time play these games from the end consumer to CEO's of major companies. I know people who have ordered obsolete part numbers for electronics hoping to get the twice the price replacement model as "compensation" when they couldn't fill the order. Of course they usually find out that a warehouse somewhere had a couple hundred of whatever left waiting to go to the discounters. Or people order a car in a trim level that they know from insiders has been canceled. Most times they get hosed as they don't realise that there is likely 8-10 cars exactly like they want or maybe an extra cheap option or two in the manufacturers hold lots. Sometimes they win though and get the nicer better model for the same price as a "good will" measure.

So UA orders the plane they need (777-200A) and does the praying that they get the better model free. They "lost" on their bet, but still got the plane they needed. hindsight shows that they did in fact lose given the massively robust resale/lease rates on the 200ER compared to the 200A. However by the time UA wants to dump these frames, it may be moot.

That said, I wouldn't be too surprised to see a new "777-200A" if customers asked for it, wearing GEnX engines, and all the free "upgrades" Boeing can justify with lower production costs or higher sales price. Though it would be a complete mistake IMO unless it was literally free to Boeing in that customers and risk sharing partners are footing the bills and the engineers demanded are minimal. Otherwise stepping up for a Y2.5 to take the 787 completely into the 777 replacement market REGARDLESS of the highercost makes more sense to me.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: PM
Posted 2007-09-07 07:23:03 and read 6700 times.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 33):
I stand by what I wrote.

Oh, I wasn't doubting it. It was just the way you phrased it I found amusing. It conjured up the image of airlines mailing off their orders (or maybe filling in something online) and then crossing their fingers while waiting to see what is delivered.  Smile

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: 797charter
Posted 2007-09-07 08:05:17 and read 6462 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
(SQ) chooses, for whatever inane reason, not to identify the 9V-SQ* and 9V-SR* birds as 772ERs, despite the fact that they are--- just with a lower MTOW than the 9V-SV* series, which is easily changeable on paper.

I seem to recall folks saying that Boeing and Airbus charge different prices for different MTOWs and that if you don't need all of it, many airlines certify at a lower MTOW to save some money, and then can "re-certify" at a higher MTOW as needed, cutting a check to Boeing/Airbus on the back end.

You are right Stitch, - many of the SAS 737 are weight "restricted" by the same reason.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: JKJ777
Posted 2007-09-07 08:29:11 and read 6347 times.

Doesn't it seem like yesterday that the first 777 went in to service? It is hard to believe that these birds are ready to be phased out according to some companies standards. If they need, I will gladly take one off their hands for them. Maybe everyone on a.net should throw in a few $$$ and buy it for members use....

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: SRMD11
Posted 2007-09-07 14:10:33 and read 4423 times.

That's an easy one... SIA will dump their first 777 after they dumped their last PAX 747!

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-09-07 15:30:29 and read 3814 times.

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 41):
SIA will dump their first 777 after they dumped their last PAX 747!

No, SQ will retire their first 777 in 2009 and their last passenger 747 in 2010 or 2011.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Ktachiya
Posted 2007-09-07 15:54:14 and read 3766 times.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 36):
why? Their A333s have opped (the longer) YVR-LHR for quite some time

I read somewhere that the jet-stream the flows from Japan-North America gets really strong in the winter compared to other ones. I might be completely wrong on that, but when NH bought the domestic variant of the B744 and converted it to the international variant, they decided to specifically utilize these birds on the Japan-Europe sector instead of the Japan-East Coast of the United States routes for that reason.

I guess E-TOPS is not an issue here right? Because the B767 also currently flies YVR-NRT. I am not an expert on jet-streams so correct me if I am wrong.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: WorldTraveler
Posted 2007-09-07 17:06:41 and read 3701 times.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 35):
I have worked closely with Boeing Structural engineers as a consultant. The situation is just as I have stated.

I appreciate the answer... really. Your original answer appreared to me to be more speculative than definitive... could have been my interpretation or the fact that it wasn't a complete sentence.

at any rate, thanks for the info.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: OldAeroGuy
Posted 2007-09-07 17:50:18 and read 3648 times.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Well the Operating Empty Weight is only 5,000lbs lighter for the 777-200A then the 777-200ER, but the ER's MTOW is 100,000lbs higher, so that 5K must be used darn wisely.

Don't forget that the 777 static loading test showed the basic structure was good for more than the original 777A MTOW.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: The Coachman
Posted 2007-09-07 17:50:38 and read 3649 times.

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 29):
I think someone stated once about the A333 being flown on 9 hour routes? I think that is pretty impossible without payload restrictions of some sort, especially during the winter. To my knowledge, AC flew the A333 across the Pacific once from YVR to NRT and that beacme big news.

You're joking right?

CX fly A333's 3x daily on HKG-SYD - scheduled at 9:10 and sometimes 9:20.

QF operate SYD-PVG and SYD-PEK with the A333. They also operate SYD-NRT with the A333 - all 3 sectors are over 9 hrs.

QF also operate NRT-PER with the A333 - again a 10+ hour flight.

None of these flights is operated with any payload restriction of any sort.

SYD-BOM is a different story, A332 range is needed here for unrestricted payload westbound. The current A333 service makes a stop in DRW.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Amirs
Posted 2007-09-07 19:57:17 and read 3562 times.

Why do they get rid of a/c so quickly?
Is it because of maintenance problem?

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: TodaReisinger
Posted 2007-09-07 20:38:21 and read 3513 times.

Quoting Amirs (Reply 47):
Why do they get rid of a/c so quickly?
Is it because of maintenance problem?

I think it's rather to have always a very young fleet...offering the very best services and highest comfort levels to their pax...

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: Zvezda
Posted 2007-09-07 23:34:10 and read 3433 times.

Quoting Amirs (Reply 47):
Why do they get rid of a/c so quickly?
Is it because of maintenance problem?

Singaporean law on the depreciation of assets (they don't call in depreciation in Singapore) makes it financially attractive to turn over the fleet fairly rapidly.

Topic: RE: When Will SQ Start Dumping Its Oldest 777s?
Username: ZK-NBT
Posted 2007-09-08 02:11:12 and read 3347 times.

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 46):
QF operate SYD-PVG and SYD-PEK with the A333. They also operate SYD-NRT with the A333 - all 3 sectors are over 9 hrs.

QF have severe restrictions on the SYD-PEK route they carry no freight from what I'm aware and this route will go to a 332, restrictions are slightly less on the SYD-PVG route, MEL-PVG will get the 332.

From what I'm told the 333 is good for flights upto about 10 hours.


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