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Topic: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Lobster
Posted 2007-12-07 04:12:09 and read 11421 times.

A security screener at Kennedy International Airport trying to see his parents off on a trip boarded their plane without a ticket or a boarding pass Thursday and was arrested, authorities said.


The man boarded an Etihad Airways flight bound for the United Arab Emirates, and when the plane's doors shut, he notified a flight attendant, said Steve Coleman, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071207/ap_on_re_us/airport_breach


Can you say dee-dee-dee.

I'm thinking he's out of a job.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: GeorgiaAME
Posted 2007-12-07 04:57:04 and read 11351 times.

1. Political correctness won't allow for his being fired. 2. He is a Federal employee, making firing impossible. 3. He is unionized (if I am not mistaken) making his firing absolutely impossible for such a minor, innocent infraction. My guess: all charges will be quickly dropped, and he will very politely be told to please not do that again in the future. Then you can expect a law suit brought by him and CAIR in the very near future for harassment. But hey, this IS America and TSA security is and always has been a charade!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: BlueShamu330s
Posted 2007-12-07 05:18:00 and read 11291 times.

I do not consider it a "minor infraction."

I don't know how it works stateside, but Mrs Shamu in ATC in the UK had a colleague who went airside to see his parents off on a day when he wasn't rostered for work.

Someone reported it to security.

The outcome was the airport management wanted him arrested or for his employer to fire him. In the end he lost his job anyway, because the airport withdrew his airside pass and priviledges.

Airside priviledges and access should only be used for your work requirements. Any other use is an abuse of the system.

Shamu

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: ERJ170
Posted 2007-12-07 05:26:34 and read 11251 times.

I'm sorry, but the TSA are a joke and do not serve any particular function except to bottleneck passengers. The amount of good they have done is miniscule. What do they do?

1. Check your boarding pass for your name (which can be done at the counter or at the gate by agents).
2. Scan you for explosives (which can be done just as well automatically and with 1 airline employee per area).
3. Check your bags (which can be done inline of the baggage process)
4. Run those belts at full blast oblivious that they are knocking your bags, laptops, and other equipment all over the floor.

I say do away with them. They really do not serve any justifiable purpose and they do not make any of the flying public feel any more safer.. just more annoyed and disgruntled.

That's my opinion, and that's all I got to say about that.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Delta11
Posted 2007-12-07 06:51:16 and read 11105 times.

Another question was he on duty or what? If not on duty then he used is Access against all rules and should be fired for that , He used his SIDA card access for personal use against Federal rules and then used in while committing a crime. The Federal Law is there so yes the union may say it was a mistake, but this guy is gone.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: BigOrange
Posted 2007-12-07 06:58:36 and read 11084 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
Then you can expect a law suit brought by him and CAIR in the very near future for harassment

While I agree with everything you say about the TSA, nowhere does it state his name, so you are being a little presumptious in assuming that CAIR will be involved!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Jetblueguy22
Posted 2007-12-07 11:42:33 and read 10722 times.



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
I'm sorry, but the TSA are a joke and do not serve any particular function except to bottleneck passengers. The amount of good they have done is miniscule.

As aviation enthusiasts we see them as jokes. But if you are a passenger who maybe flies once in a while they feel like wow these are Federal officials and I feel really safe. Plus the airlines would never put up with having to hire someone to do some of the jobs the TSA does. But that is just me!
Sully

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-07 11:49:59 and read 10708 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
1. Political correctness won't allow for his being fired. 2. He is a Federal employee, making firing impossible. 3. He is unionized (if I am not mistaken) making his firing absolutely impossible for such a minor, innocent infraction.

If he was on duty, no. If he was off duty, you betcha he will get fired. Thats overstepping the bounds of the SIDA badge rules that he holds. The airport is NOT a playground!

If he was off duty, I hope they fry his butt!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: SkyexRamper
Posted 2007-12-07 12:18:20 and read 10629 times.

Well I sure hope that the gate agent was fired too, since it is there job to allow only passengers and other qualified people (with company or security related business) through their jet bridge door.

Quoting Delta11 (Reply 4):
If not on duty then he used is Access against all rules and should be fired for that , He used his SIDA card access for personal use against Federal rules and then used in while committing a crime.

It would only be a crime because he bored the airplane without screening. Using his SIDA badge to by pass security to just walk around the terminal is not a crime as airline employees do it all the time to send off family memebers or meet their inbound flights.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Sh0rtybr0wn
Posted 2007-12-07 12:23:39 and read 10609 times.

Although he meant no harm, this is still a serious infraction of airport security rules. Its an example of whatever amount of power or authority he had going to his head.

I dont feel happy to see him lose his job, but i think he should be fired; which will send a message that boarding a plane without a valid boarding pass is never OK. ( Its not impossible to imagine a TSA agent , or someone impersonating one, with easy access to cabins of planes, planting a bomb or something on a plane for whatever reason, so unless they have a boarding pass, I think they should not be allowed on planes. )

He should also be fired because it sets a higher standard of professional conduct for TSA members, and will increase on the job discipline.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Bennett123
Posted 2007-12-07 12:53:05 and read 10533 times.

What is the CAIR

It is a new one for me.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: LHRBlueSkies
Posted 2007-12-07 12:55:11 and read 10525 times.

Sack him. He knew the rules, thought he could get away with it. It's simple - sack him.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Lumberton
Posted 2007-12-07 14:09:14 and read 10388 times.

IIRC, the TSA employees are pushing for unions, but so far they haven't been allowed. I believe this is in the courts at present.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Mirrodie
Posted 2007-12-07 14:32:20 and read 10335 times.



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 8):
Well I sure hope that the gate agent was fired too, since it is there job to allow only passengers and other qualified people (with company or security related business) through their jet bridge door

Considering the info given, I think your assessment is the best here.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but isnt it the gate agents job of how does and does not get on the plane.

Did this guy go up to the GA and flash a badge? If so, its irrelevant. The TSA employee got on the plane, but someone let him on, no matter how many ways you look at it.

So quite frankly, as much as I dislike most TSA employees that have dealt with, the wrong here seems to be that of the gate agents. And I don't see how s/he did not make the news story.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: GeorgiaAME
Posted 2007-12-07 14:37:31 and read 10318 times.



Quoting BigOrange (Reply 5):
nowhere does it state his name, so you are being a little presumptious in assuming that CAIR will be involved!

Obviously, you are in complete agreement with my statement number 1: political correctness won't allow for... Since we are being politically correct, and true, I don't have the guy's name, I am guessing that it was not Menachem Schwartz, seeing his folks Malka and Yussi off on the trip of a lifetime to The United Arab Emirates on Etihad. It's just a hunch, but again, being politically correct , there is an old adage that if it walks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, quacks like a duck, hangs out with ducks, you are probably not dealing with a goat.

Quoting Jetblueguy22 (Reply 6):
But if you are a passenger who maybe flies once in a while they feel like wow these are Federal officials and I feel really safe

How often do suicide bombers fly? (Richard Colvin Reid comes to mind on this one)

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):
The airport is NOT a playground!

When was the last time you flew with a low cost carrier? (A tad off topic, but sorry, I couldn't resist)

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
What is the CAIR
It is a new one for me

Political correctness won't allow me to answer directly. Do a google search on: USAirways, passengers removed from flight, and lawsuit. There was a minor incident onboard a US Airways flight a few months back that involved the active removal of some pretty scary passengers. Also it is probably the only good reason these days to fly with US Airways

For those in the audience who haven't gotten the point of my wit, it boils down to this: As long as security agents randomly screen individuals for weapons in stead of actively screening for passengers who fit a profile of someone who might actually want to carry weapons, we have no security in place. The truth hurts.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Sh0rtybr0wn
Posted 2007-12-07 14:53:35 and read 10272 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
As long as security agents randomly screen individuals for weapons in stead of actively screening for passengers who fit a profile of someone who might actually want to carry weapons, we have no security in place. The truth hurts.

Uh.... What is your "wit" ?

That we should racial profile people who fly ? Is that it? Please clarify what you are trying to suggest. Is it that we should concentrate on Muslims and focus less scrutiny on non middle easterners because they wouldn't want to blow up a plane ( as much )?

I dont even think this story has anything to do with that, or political correctness.

This incident is about someone using their on the job authority to go places and do things in an airport to the extent that when they are caught, they get arrested. ( like getting on planes without authorization ) Its dangerous and unprofessional.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Avt007
Posted 2007-12-07 15:19:17 and read 10220 times.



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 8):
Using his SIDA badge to by pass security to just walk around the terminal is not a crime as airline employees do it all the time to send off family members or meet their inbound flights.

I'd just about guarantee it is a crime! I can't use my pass to bypass security except for work related purposes, and wandering around or playing tour guide doesn't qualify. It's an easy way to lose your pass, and as a result, your job.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Bennett123
Posted 2007-12-07 15:28:49 and read 10187 times.

The problem with profiling is that it assumes that the bomber/hijacker fits the profile.

I recall an attack many years ago when an Arab bomber persauded his Irish girlfriend to take a package on a plane. She was to go from A to B, but he had to go to C first and would meet her at the other end, Fortuneately LY security twigged on. It is doubtful that she would match the profile.

Equally neither would Timothy McVeigh. I assume that your profile would not be white ex military people.

As soon as you set a profile, it can be evaded.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: BlueShamu330s
Posted 2007-12-07 15:37:16 and read 10165 times.

I'm way out of my comfort zone in this thread....people are agreeing with me !  Big grin

Shamu

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Halls120
Posted 2007-12-07 16:02:24 and read 10116 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
2. He is a Federal employee, making firing impossible

Actually, if a federal employee breaks the law, it makes it far easier to fire him/her.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2007-12-07 16:18:42 and read 10074 times.

The infraction isn't using his SIDA badge to go through security without a boarding pass - it occurred when he boarded the aircraft.

And for that yes, his employment should be terminated.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: UN_B732
Posted 2007-12-07 17:26:08 and read 9769 times.

Why didn't he get off when the doors were about to be closed?

Why did he admit being on to an F/A?

So many odd questions..

-A

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Swatpamike
Posted 2007-12-07 19:02:12 and read 9110 times.

Hello All

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):
The airport is NOT a playground!

Tell that to all the morons that I work with.

Cheers

swatpamike

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AviationAddict
Posted 2007-12-07 19:14:16 and read 9035 times.



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):

1. Check your boarding pass for your name (which can be done at the counter or at the gate by agents).

I once made it through security with the wrong boarding pass (the ticket counter agent accidentally gave my girlfriend my pass and me hers) and not one of the three TSA agents who looked as the passes at the check point picked up on the mistake! It wasn't until the gate agent collected the tickets that we realized we had the wrong ones.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Snn2003
Posted 2007-12-07 19:30:44 and read 8927 times.



Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 23):
I once made it through security with the wrong boarding pass (the ticket counter agent accidentally gave my girlfriend my pass and me hers) and not one of the three TSA agents who looked as the passes at the check point picked up on the mistake! It wasn't until the gate agent collected the tickets that we realized we had the wrong ones.

I had the same thing happen to me when I was younger. I was on passes and my mother listed my grandfather and not me, but I checked in and got past TSA. I caught it as we were being boarded and the gate agent was able to fix the problem. But still.... I shouldn't have been able to leave the counter.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Fjnovak1
Posted 2007-12-07 20:01:52 and read 8748 times.

TSA.....

Thousands
Standing
Around

'Nuff Said!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Bok269
Posted 2007-12-07 20:08:57 and read 8946 times.

He's innocent until proven otherwise....

If he is proven otherwise, he deserves to be fired. End of story.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Threepoint
Posted 2007-12-07 20:17:34 and read 8915 times.



Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 23):
I once made it through security with the wrong boarding pass

I have done it in Canada on many occasions. Often a traveling colleague and I will 'accidentally' switch passes. Or IDs. Or both. Sometimes we will obscure the boarding pass details with the ID cards so as to make our name matching and flight details unreadable. Only twice have I been challenged. You can understand my delight at paying for the Security Charge on every flight.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 15):
Please clarify what you are trying to suggest. Is it that we should concentrate on Muslims and focus less scrutiny on non middle easterners because they wouldn't want to blow up a plane ( as much )?

No. Georgia AME appears to be saying the exact opposite. As long as we racially profile, we're accomplishing little.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
As long as security agents randomly screen individuals for weapons in stead of actively screening for passengers who fit a profile of someone who might actually want to carry weapons, we have no security in place.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-07 20:34:00 and read 8819 times.



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 16):
I'd just about guarantee it is a crime! I can't use my pass to bypass security except for work related purposes, and wandering around or playing tour guide doesn't qualify. It's an easy way to lose your pass, and as a result, your job.

Its actually not. As long as you have the government clearance to the SIDA area, they don't care as long as you follow the rules within the SIDA. Our guys come in and out all day on their days off to use the fax/copy machines and whatnot.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Did this guy go up to the GA and flash a badge? If so, its irrelevant. The TSA employee got on the plane, but someone let him on, no matter how many ways you look at it.

It is possible to access a boarding aircraft via the ramp, and jet bridge stairs. In which case the gate agent would be unaware, because to be on the ramp means you have SIDA clearance.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 20):
The infraction isn't using his SIDA badge to go through security without a boarding pass - it occurred when he boarded the aircraft.

And for that yes, his employment should be terminated.

How is that an infraction?? If you have SIDA clearance, then you have access to be on an aircraft without going through security (as long as your not a passenger). F/A's and Crew at SOME airports do not go through security even if they don't hold a SIDA badge for that airport. TSA board aircrafts all the time to do their "random" preflight security checks, because they know the interior of a plane better than the crew...  confused 

You occasionally even see other airline's personnel boarding flights because they have passengers on them ect., yes those people are on "on the clock" but what does that have to do with the rules of the SIDA??... nothing. If you have clearance you have clearance as far as the governments concerned they don't care if your working or not. That is the company's policy to in-force should they wish to have it.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Rwy04LGA
Posted 2007-12-07 23:43:08 and read 8004 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):
It is possible to access a boarding aircraft via the ramp, and jet bridge stairs. In which case the gate agent would be unaware, because to be on the ramp means you have SIDA clearance.

As a ramper, I board aircraft all of the time!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Jhooper
Posted 2007-12-08 00:01:31 and read 7954 times.



Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 21):
Why did he admit being on to an F/A?

It's a good thing he did--He'd be in a lot more trouble if he had flown to the U.A.E.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, but did they really need to arrest the guy? Why do we as a society now have to get the cops involved with everything?

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-08 01:49:13 and read 7614 times.



Quoting Jhooper (Reply 30):

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, but did they really need to arrest the guy? Why do we as a society now have to get the cops involved with everything?

I agree with you, not a big deal at all. But as you said, in our society all it takes is for one employee to make the call. I believe that currently there is a HUGE grey area when it comes to SIDA rules for airline employees, and that the airlines are at fault for not properly educating their employees on the specific privileges/responsibilities holding a SIDA badge entails.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2007-12-08 02:09:06 and read 7565 times.



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 26):
He's innocent until proven otherwise....

He was on the airplane and didn't have a ticket. He used his ID badge to get on there.

Help me to understand - how is he innocent?

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 20):
The infraction isn't using his SIDA badge to go through security without a boarding pass - it occurred when he boarded the aircraft.

And for that yes, his employment should be terminated.

How is that an infraction??

The SIDA badge gives you access to the air operations area if it's part of your job function. Going on the other side of security is one thing, but boarding aircraft is not part of a TSA agent's job description.


Clear enough for you?

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-08 02:14:02 and read 7547 times.



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
The SIDA badge gives you access to the air operations area if it's part of your job function. Going on the other side of security is one thing, but boarding aircraft is not part of a TSA agent's job description.


Clear enough for you?

Can you please find me that in the TSA SOP?? I beg to differ.

Also, boarding aircrafts now IS indeed in the TSA job description. They do 'security checks' on random flights, in between deplaning and boarding. And at the airports I have been to, they usually access the aircrafts from the ramp, right after their smoke break. TSA on the plane are now a common sight to F/A's and Gate Agents.

Clear enough for ya?

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Sh0rtybr0wn
Posted 2007-12-08 06:27:42 and read 7096 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 33):
Also, boarding aircrafts now IS indeed in the TSA job description. They do 'security checks' on random flights, in between deplaning and boarding. And at the airports I have been to, they usually access the aircrafts from the ramp, right after their smoke break. TSA on the plane are now a common sight to F/A's and Gate Agents.

Clear enough for ya?

Is it a "common sight" to see TSA agents ( who are "visting" family on planes for which they have no ticket ) accidentally get caught on those planes after the doors are shut and ready for pushback?

Who informed the Airport Police? Were they wrong? The TSA should be enforcing security protocols at the airport, not breaking them and circumventing them.

Its true, he shouldn't be fired just yet and instead suspended until the final outcome. But a TSA agent who was recently arrested on a plane should also not be working until the whole matter is resolved.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Bennett123
Posted 2007-12-08 06:42:23 and read 7059 times.

Are they actually authorised to board a plane?.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-08 07:29:30 and read 6993 times.



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 13):
Did this guy go up to the GA and flash a badge? If so, its irrelevant.

Oh, its relevant. Very much so. It all boils down to if he was on duty or not and wearing his uniform.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
When was the last time you flew with a low cost carrier? (A tad off topic, but sorry, I couldn't resist)

What is that supposed to mean? Don't play stupid.

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 16):
I can't use my pass to bypass security except for work related purposes, and wandering around or playing tour guide doesn't qualify. It's an easy way to lose your pass, and as a result, your job.

 checkmark  Pre-9/11 allowed the practice to go airside. After 9/11, the SOP has changed completely. If you are caught fooling around, NOT on duty out on the ramp, you can get into major trouble with the airport authority and your SIDA confiscated. Not exactly a good thing to explain to your employer, eh??

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):
If you have SIDA clearance, then you have access to be on an aircraft without going through security (as long as your not a passenger).

Correction: ONLY while you are on duty WITH the proper authorization to actually be on the aircraft.

I have NEVER seen an uniformed TSA agent on an aircraft before, ever.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 35):
Are they actually authorised to board a plane?.

No. They only board the plane when airport police are present and authorized to do so.

PEOPLE, PEOPLE..LISTEN UP: The bottom line boils down to if he was on duty or not. If he was not on duty, he certainly overstepped his bounds of the SIDA rules and TSA SOP. He boarded an aircraft (which is airline company property and also criminal trespassing...) without a ticket, let alone without a passport. He deserves to be sacked and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That is the bottom line.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Sgtusmc96
Posted 2007-12-08 08:05:30 and read 6947 times.

Just to clear one thing up! TSA is aloud on the aircraft! We see it all the time here in DTW! But they only go on the aircraft if there are no pax on the aircraft! I have been spot checked by them countless times while working! So, yes TSA has authorization to be on the aircraft (they never had the police with them either) for their random security sweeps. They even write up stuff for maintenance to fix!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Skyguy
Posted 2007-12-08 08:23:35 and read 6922 times.

I have very little faith in the TSA'a abilities from what I have observed in JFK and LGA airports for several years now.
It's difficult to generalize and paint a wide brush over all of them but I just can't help it. It appears to me by my observations of them, they way they perform their work, the way they talk to each other, the way they talk to passengers, how they handle stress and the apparent seriousness/intent (or lack of!) that they go about their duties, that they are overall less than satisfactory at doing what they should be.
The key is just by looking and talking to them, they have an air of conceit and arrogance because they are "Federal" employees, though in fact they are to just one level up in the job chain from being hired by McDonalds flipping burgers. Watching them talk to each other while working, laughing, joking loudly, complaining about shift hours to co-workers, popping bubble gum, talking to passengers with indifference and disinterest at best and rudely frequently; simply does not give me any confidence that these people are smart, intelligent, job-focussed who take their tasks seriously and with integrity. Their attitude clearly looks like they work in a "factory", do their 8 hour shift and go home.
Which is why it's not surprising to hear of a TSA agent suffering from delusions of grandeur and trying to impress his parents by dropping them inside the aircraft, this amounts to nothing less than corruption of his duties and he should have the book thrown at him.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: APFPilot1985
Posted 2007-12-08 08:30:00 and read 6911 times.



Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 37):
Just to clear one thing up! TSA is aloud on the aircraft!

Allowed

Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 37):
So, yes TSA has authorization to be on the aircraft

Maybe while they are working, however off the clock to see some family members off? I don't think so.

Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 37):
They even write up stuff for maintenance to fix!

God I sure hope not.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-08 13:02:02 and read 6725 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
Correction: ONLY while you are on duty WITH the proper authorization to actually be on the aircraft.

I have NEVER seen an uniformed TSA agent on an aircraft before, ever.

That is because they do their security checks when no one is on the plane except the crew.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 34):
Who informed the Airport Police? Were they wrong? The TSA should be enforcing security protocols at the airport, not breaking them and circumventing them.

He didnt break protocol!!!!!! Possibly yes when he was left on the plane, but as he notifed the crew straight away its an honest mistake. I have been closed in planes a few times whilst boarding and its not a big damn deal. You can easily get distracted and the flight crew doesnt notice you.

I have even been on flights where an annocement for all employees not accoiated with the flight to please leave as doors will be closing, because there was so many on board.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
It all boils down to if he was on duty or not and wearing his uniform.

Being in uniform is not a requirement... If its the TSA's policy that employees in the SIDA be "on duty" then he obviously broke TSA regulations, but not airport regulations. IF you have the clearance you have the clearance, that doesnt change when your on duty and off.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Skyexramper
Posted 2007-12-08 13:58:20 and read 6680 times.



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 16):
I'd just about guarantee it is a crime! I can't use my pass to bypass security except for work related purposes, and wandering around or playing tour guide doesn't qualify. It's an easy way to lose your pass, and as a result, your job.

MKE doesn't care what we do, as long as we don't board a flight after we by-pass security. We can give tours to anyone we'd like, as long as they have never held a SIDA badge. I use to be able to board Skyway and Midwest Airlines flights without going through security but then TSA had a hissy fit.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: EA CO AS
Posted 2007-12-08 15:23:45 and read 6608 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
PEOPLE, PEOPLE..LISTEN UP: The bottom line boils down to if he was on duty or not. If he was not on duty, he certainly overstepped his bounds of the SIDA rules and TSA SOP. He boarded an aircraft (which is airline company property and also criminal trespassing...) without a ticket, let alone without a passport. He deserves to be sacked and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That is the bottom line

 checkmark 

Well said.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-08 16:48:53 and read 6553 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 43):
Good Riddance....some of you people need to do some research on some of this stuff and get a clue. wtf?!

I am a gate agent and I have been one for two airlines in the us for two years. I know what I am talking about with the rules. We were allowed in the SIDA and AOA off duty as long as we brought our badge. Hell, our station even had flag football competitions on the ramp inbetween flights, yes it was a slower airport, but also the same regulations.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 43):
You know this how? I worked overnight at SA)">WN here in PHX in 2002 and I have NEVER seen a TSA agent do a sweep of our airplanes at 5am. NEVER! We had our own people that do that. Same with SA)">HP here in PHX did that as well, which was my job at the time.

I know this because almost every time we had to do a quick turn two TSA screens will turn up at the aircraft and need to search it before we began boarding. I wouldnt expect them to be doing these searches at 0500.

To reply the the OP and the screener at JFK. Why do you feel he should be fired if the TSA program (and its regulations) are a joke?? Your not making much sense.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-08 18:50:24 and read 6478 times.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 44):
I am a gate agent and I have been one for two airlines in the us for two years.

Ok, your point is.......?

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 44):
I know what I am talking about with the rules.

Oh, Me too! I probably have been in this industry a hell of a lot longer than you! But....you might want to check, and again re-check your airport's SIDA rules. I'm sure there is a rule about being airside while off-duty is not permitted. Oh yeah, check with your employer too. They probably have the same rules. Its not very cool to go airside while off-duty flashing your SIDA/company ID. That is like making you an 'attention whore'.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 44):
We were allowed in the SIDA and AOA off duty as long as we brought our badge.

'were'. Says alot.   

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 44):
Why do you feel he should be fired if the TSA program (and its regulations) are a joke??

Because of the lack of enforcement, for one. And because he was off-duty. Other's have said the same thing.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 44):
Your not making much sense.

Because you are not getting it, which is not my problem. If you want to abuse your SIDA privilages, thats your right. But don't blame it on other's because they got away with it while you got caught, for example.

I say again: The airport is NOT a playground. And.....

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 36):
The bottom line boils down to if he was on duty or not. If he was not on duty, he certainly overstepped his bounds of the SIDA rules and TSA SOP. He boarded an aircraft (which is airline company property and also criminal trespassing...) without a ticket, let alone without a passport. He deserves to be sacked and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That is the bottom line.

It seems that Georgebush does NOT understand that.   

[Edited 2007-12-08 18:58:46]

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-08 19:25:35 and read 6430 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 45):
Oh, Me too! I probably have been in this industry a hell of a lot longer than you! But....you might want to check, and again re-check your airport's SIDA rules. I'm sure there is a rule about being airside while off-duty is not permitted. Oh yeah, check with your employer too. They probably have the same rules. Its not very cool to go airside while off-duty flashing your SIDA/company ID. That is like making you an 'attention whore'.

Okay... because I am quite sure the average Joe knows what a SIDA badge is... How does that make you and attention whore?? I still don't understand how its only a crime if your in the SIDA or AOA and not on the clock? That sir does not make sense.

As I said if an EMPLOYER wants to have those rules, thats their call. The government don't care.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 45):
'were'. Says alot.

Yea I moved overseas... I am sure they still do play actually. We even had airport challenges and everyone had a different team that competed. AA vs UA vs TSA, everyone played and most of the people had the day off...

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 45):
I say again: The airport is NOT a playground. And.....

How does seeing off his parents and making sure they got on the right plane constitute "playing"?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 45):
It seems that Georgebush does NOT understand that.

I don't understand that... because its completely mental! How could you get fired for something that stupid!? Ground Crew get left on planes all the time, its not a huge bother to reopen the door and let them out... I think our airframe is the one not understanding.

Why not just fire everyone who has once violated a SIDA procedure!! Great Idea, but sir I would almost bet that would also entail Alaska finding a new mechanic. Get off your high horse.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-09 11:02:39 and read 6128 times.



Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 49):

If you are not an A&P, flight crew, or any pilot...you cannot under the F.A.R.'s write mx discriptancies up. Writing stuff up as a TSA agent is not acceptable and is outside the scope of what the TSA does.

A TSA agent is NOT an A&P.

There are additional F.A.R.'s that covers this, not just 21.2. I only put down 21.2 as an example. I'll let you look them up since you seem to be more of an expert than myself.

You can be damn sure if you are not an approved person to write stuff up, that's still falsifing documents.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Malaysia
Posted 2007-12-09 13:24:30 and read 6043 times.



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 2):
Airside priviledges and access should only be used for your work requirements. Any other use is an abuse of the system.

Reminds me of one airport that I use to work at, where the police would go around the employee lot chalking up tires to see if they had been moved at all, then would boot the tires in 2- 3 days if the chalk line was still in place adjacent to the pavement. (employees were not allowed to park their car for overnight or vacations in the employee lot) It really made some people mad, cause some had training travel and others had to work long hours and to find the car booted when trying to return home early in the morning.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Bok269
Posted 2007-12-09 15:13:44 and read 5956 times.



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
He was on the airplane and didn't have a ticket. He used his ID badge to get on there.

Help me to understand - how is he innocent?

The same thing was said about the YX Captain as well as the VS FO (?) who were reported as drunk. We are all aware of the media's ability to miss report a story. If he is guilty, then by all means he deserves to be fired and possibly sent to prison. I am an adamant opponent of many of the TSA's policies, as well as those screeners who power trip and abuse their powers. However, that can't get in the way of an individual's right to Habeas Corpus.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Mirrodie
Posted 2007-12-09 18:28:45 and read 5874 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 28):
It is possible to access a boarding aircraft via the ramp, and jet bridge stairs. In which case the gate agent would be unaware, because to be on the ramp means you have SIDA clearance.

Georgebush, I'm very much aware that you can access an aircraft in these ways. Of course, details are sketchy, but if this guy was seeing his parents off on the flight, I think he would have boarded WITH them. And if he did indeed do this, he must have gone past the GA.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-09 19:55:05 and read 5822 times.



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 53):
And if he did indeed do this, he must have gone past the GA.

But as an average gate agent, I would bet you they said nothing. TSA think they are higher than the airline employees, and most gate agents wouldnt want to get into an entanglement with that screener's boss. If I was a gate agent and he was TSA I would think to myself, must know what he is doing.

But if he was on duty or on break or just coming off shift or whatever, its still possible he was running late or just stepped on the aircraft to say goodbye.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 50):
I'll let you look them up since you seem to be more of an expert than myself.

I forgot, mechanics really are EXPERTS about the intricate operations of an airport...  Yeah sure You see them sitting around the terminals all day long. Sir I think the guys who empty the rubbish would know a little more about the regulations of the sterile side than you would.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-09 22:15:59 and read 5719 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 55):
What is that supposed to mean?! I never said anything about knowing how airport ops work as an A&P, I only know what is allowed on aircraft on the mx side of things, including mx discriptancies and who can write them up.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 50):
I'll let you look them up since you seem to be more of an expert than myself.

Nexxxxt

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 54):
If I was a gate agent and he was TSA I would think to myself, must know what he is doing.

Believe me, you try to snap a TSA agent, then big daddy three bars will be having a chat with you. I don't mess with TSA never will. They are supposed to know the rules better than us.... How can you be so sure the flight attendant (acting on behalf of the airline) let him on to say goodbye? Give me a break, its not like he was trespassing the TSA have to get on flights all the time!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 55):
Either you are an agent or you are not. Which is it?

Luckily I no longer work in the US anymore. Yes I am, a SECRET agent!

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-09 22:38:11 and read 5696 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 56):
its not like he was trespassing

Oh, he was trespassing. Aircraft are private property. He broke the law and overstepped the bounds of the SIDA rules. It does not get any elementary than that.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 56):
Luckily I no longer work in the US anymore. Yes I am, a SECRET agent!

Given the age group that you have listed in your profile....nice comeback.  sarcastic  You have no idea what you are talking about as a whole on this thread, yet you do not reside in the U.S. nor do you work in the U.S. The points you have made and/or have tried to make is moot. You know nothing.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Jgarrido
Posted 2007-12-09 22:43:20 and read 5692 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
2. He is a Federal employee, making firing impossible. 3. He is unionized (if I am not mistaken) making his firing absolutely impossible for such a minor, innocent infraction.

2. Depends on how long he's been employed, if it's been less then a year he should start filling out Macdonald's applications now.

3. TSA falls under DHS and DHS employees are not allowed to unionize.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Sgtusmc96
Posted 2007-12-10 02:33:32 and read 5636 times.

I fully agree that he had no business being on that plane at that time.

All I was saying is that TSA has the authorization to be on the plane. He just had no business being there at that time. I also agree that he should be fired.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...fr_2004/octqtr/pdf/49cfr1544.1.pdf

A link to show they do have the authorizations to be on the aircraft. Not trying to start an argument just showing they have the authority.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Mirrodie
Posted 2007-12-10 06:51:19 and read 5508 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 54):
If I was a gate agent and he was TSA I would think to myself, must know what he is doing.

Wow, I'm appalled. Is that how the average gate agent thinks? My goodness gracious, that is scary.

So that means all a terrorist needs is an ID and a uniform and they can show it to you, if you are the GA, and you'd simply assume "Must know what he is doing." ?????

My gosh, what a serious lapse in security measures. What airline do you work for so I know where to write and show them such blatant lapses in procedure? Assuming someone knows what they are doing sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Please, for the sake of all passengers flying, I hope this thread is read by and forwarded to the right people and changes are made in the way GAs are trained.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: KC135TopBoom
Posted 2007-12-10 07:25:35 and read 5479 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
3. He is unionized (if I am not mistaken)

No, currently the TSA is not unionized. They are trying, and have lots of support from a Democratic majoirity Congress (who will care less about all the US and other citizens who must endour this anal harrassment from the TSA incompetent masses.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
I'm sorry, but the TSA are a joke and do not serve any particular function except to bottleneck passengers.

 checkmark   bigthumbsup 

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 9):
Although he meant no harm, this is still a serious infraction of airport security rules.

How do you know that?

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 12):
IIRC, the TSA employees are pushing for unions, but so far they haven't been allowed. I believe this is in the courts at present.

If the TSA is allowed to unionize, we are all screwed. TSA employees must not be allowed to procreate, either. Let's kill that gene pool now.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
What is the CAIR
It is a new one for me

Political correctness won't allow me to answer directly.

Then I'll do it. CAIR is a terrorist support organization based in the US. Their goal is not to protect people of the Islamic faith from a prejusist America, but to protest those of the Arab Race from Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American-Islamic_Relations

See the section called criticism.

PC, my a#@.  redflag 

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 17):
The problem with profiling is that it assumes that the bomber/hijacker fits the profile.

How many people on Anglo Saxson (European) decent hyjacked the 4 9/11 airplanes? How many Blacks, Oreintals, or Hispanics hyjacked those airplanes? The answer to both questions is ZERO. How many of those hyjackers were Arab men between the ages of 18 and 45 on the 9/11 airplanes? I know, I know, there were 19 of them, plus the 20th hyjacker convicted in the US Federal Courts of the District of Northern Virgina.

The problem with profiling is........it works.  talktothehand 

Quoting Fjnovak1 (Reply 25):
TSA.....

Thousands
Standing
Around

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

 bouncy   bouncy 

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: N766UA
Posted 2007-12-10 09:18:03 and read 5401 times.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 1):
2. He is a Federal employee, making firing impossible.

Tell that to PATCO.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: MSYPI7185
Posted 2007-12-10 11:12:01 and read 5328 times.



Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 10):
What is the CAIR



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 14):
Political correctness won't allow me to answer directly.

What is political incorrect about this?

CAIR is an acronym for: Council for American-Islamic Relations.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-10 12:23:10 and read 5248 times.



Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 59):
Not trying to start an argument just showing they have the authority.

Thanks for the link. Having said that, they are only authorized on aircraft while on duty ONLY under certain circumstances with the assistance of the airport police.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Georgebush
Posted 2007-12-10 20:32:58 and read 5105 times.



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 60):
So that means all a terrorist needs is an ID and a uniform and they can show it to you, if you are the GA, and you'd simply assume "Must know what he is doing." ?????

TSA agents' superiors CAN make life hell for a GA. That is why most gate agents can't be bothered messing with the TSA, their cuzzin or their homeboy might just be that guy who can just about end a GA's career.

I can see it unfolding like this:

GA: Sir/Maam can I please see your ID?

TSA: (slow turn of the head twoards the GA) you hasslin' me boy? Here (shows ID)

GA: Are you working, on the clock?? (apparently what members of this forum think we should now ask)

TSA: Yea I am on the clock, and why you think this is yo buisssness?

GA: Just looking out for the interest of security, can you please provide me proof that you are on the clock? (I assume a terrorist would also claim he is)

TSA: Boy, just wait till I go get Jamal on yo ass (stoms away after a brisk stop at the nearest McDonalds).

**Meanwhile all this is taking away from the time that I should be spending with YOU, the paying customers, and potentially a cause for flight delays if it occurs during boarding or other peak times**


How the hell are we (GA's) supposed to know if they are on the clock or not??... Thats ridiculous. If they are cleared to be in the SIDA they are gonna get in just as much trouble if they break the law on the clock than if they do off the clock. And boarding a flight to say goodbye to your parents who are travelling overseas is definitely not breaking the law. I am sure anyone with the opportunity to do that would. Besides to the average flying public seeing a TSA agent on the plane would not be an alarming sight at all.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-11 05:36:41 and read 5005 times.



Quoting Georgebush (Reply 65):

 redflag  You are out of touch with reality, bigtime. Good Riddance!

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 65):
How the hell are we (GA's) supposed to know if they are on the clock or not??

Obviously, you have never heard of a uniform?? You don't know what the heck you are taking about.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Delta11
Posted 2007-12-11 06:11:56 and read 4979 times.

According to 49 CFR Part 1542 the airport must post and follow security rules. All airports state in there PandP's the use if for Company use and not personal. So yes when you go in to the area to see your supervisor, get your pay stub, shop at the Crew Lounge it is work related. But to use it to pass the rule of Ticketed Passengers only beyond this point is against the rules.

Yes the TSA person did break many rules, and also the gate agent should be questioned as to how he boarded a plane. Even people with an SIDA badge can not just board any aircraft they want. This is a major infraction and should be reviewed. No matter what country.

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-11 06:42:25 and read 4949 times.



Quoting Delta11 (Reply 67):
According to 49 CFR Part 1542 the airport must post and follow security rules.

That is the regulation I was looking for. Thank you.

Quoting Delta11 (Reply 67):
But to use it to pass the rule of Ticketed Passengers only beyond this point is against the rules.

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Topic: RE: TSA Screener Arrested At JFK
Username: Delta11
Posted 2007-12-12 09:19:22 and read 4673 times.

Sir,

In reading your post, yes he does have Authority to access a bird, but only for purpose of TSA work. "in order to inspect or test compliance or perform other such duties as TSA directs.

As for the other member of this post stated they are allowed for any purpose access to the AOA or SIDA area, this is false. You broke several federal rules. Yes it occurs every day, but according to each Airport PandP this is not allowed. Please see my prior post on the stated rules for airport operations.

In any case, this is not a pissing match. If rules were broken, Federal, Airport or Carrier, then fire him. It is another example of Americans at work, They have this so called security but play with it while forcing paying passengers to stick with the rules. Come on , set an example follow the rules and make your job a profession not a game or privilege. Whats fair here!

Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 54):



Quoting Sgtusmc96 (Reply 54):
fully agree that he had no business being on that plane at that time.

All I was saying is that TSA has the authorization to be on the plane. He just had no business being there at that time. I also agree that he should be fired.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...fr_2004/octqtr/pdf/49cfr1544.1.pdf

A link to show they do have the authorizations to be on the aircraft. Not trying to start an argument just showing they have the authority.

A


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