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Topic: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Falstaff
Posted 2007-12-24 11:20:45 and read 160393 times.

Sounds like an odd thread, but This morning I found out one of my good friends died, unexpectedly. He lived in Detroit and his family lived in Sullivan, Illinois. His mother was going to have him flown home. That got me wonder how much it would cost to fly a body from one place to another. I know that kind of thing happens on a regular basis, but I have never known anyone that had to do it before.

Since you wouldn't buy the ticket with advanced notice would it be like buying full fare Y class? Would a body have to be flown on a mainline aircraft? I would think a CRJ would be a bit small.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Stylo777
Posted 2007-12-24 11:37:09 and read 160370 times.

so awful and terrible it sounds they (the bereaved) get charged like cargo and not as a passenger.

I'm pretty sure that the casket doesn't fit into the hold of regional aircrafts such as CRJ, ATR or BAE so they need at least mainline planes.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: CanadianNorth
Posted 2007-12-24 11:40:00 and read 160366 times.

Well I occasionally see "hummers" sitting on the cart when I pass through Cargo, so I'd imagine they would be shipped/charged similar to cargo.

And yeah, they do look a little big for the CRJ (the ones I see go on 737s).


CanadianNorth

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: 57AZ
Posted 2007-12-24 11:48:45 and read 160332 times.

We did that when my maternal grandmother died. She was living with us in Tennessee, but the family home was in northern Pennsylvania. Typically the arrangements are made by the funeral director, so there may be some different charge that is not public. There might be some possibility of a body being transported on a regional aircraft, dependent on the size of the body and the size of the casket. If the director were concerned about the size/weight of the casket, they can arrange to send the body in a smaller, lightweight fiberboard shipping casket and have the receiving funeral director arrange for the other one. I suppose that if the remains could be fitted into the smaller cargo hold, they might have to bump some passenger bags and/or other lower priority freight.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: VictorKilo
Posted 2007-12-24 12:37:34 and read 160246 times.



Quoting Falstaff (Thread starter):
This morning I found out one of my good friends died, unexpectedly.

Condolences on your recent loss.

I live in Detroit but grew up in East Central Illinois. It's only about eight hours by car from Detroit to Sullivan. I'm wondering if there is a reason why the body would be shipped via air instead of via ground.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: CV580Freak
Posted 2007-12-24 12:53:50 and read 160206 times.

Sad to hear of your loss of your friend.

Not sure about within domestic USA but in Europe the cargo rate is 200% of the full IATA rate.

There are specialist funeral directors that deal specifically with air transportation of human remains and they are well versed in the necessary packing of the coffin and what paperwork is necessary.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Lincoln
Posted 2007-12-24 12:54:12 and read 160202 times.



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 3):
There might be some possibility of a body being transported on a regional aircraft, dependent on the size of the body and the size of the casket

There was a story in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about flying the disceased on commercial flights. I've forgotten most of the details, but I seem to remember the article included some "sample pricing"; that it was charged more like cargo than passenger, and that serveral airlines (including B6 and AA) have, essentially, a "frequent dead flyer" program for funeral directors to earn free travel, etc.

Lincoln

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-24 12:56:02 and read 160193 times.

I hear that they are a pain in the butt to 'shoehorn' the caskets in the M80's....

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2007-12-24 13:33:46 and read 160120 times.

Most major airlines have provisions in their cargo website covering human remains shipments. Examples for AA, CO, DL:
http://www.aacargo.com/shipping/humanremains.jhtml
http://cargo.cocargo.com/cargo/products/trustco.aspx
http://www.delta.com/business_progra...rgo_products_services/delta_cares/

AA has long used the name "Jim Wilson" as a code name for human remains shipments. When funeral directors call AA they ask for the "Jim Wilson Desk". Some history re that here:
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/jim_wilson

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Falstaff
Posted 2007-12-24 16:19:22 and read 159971 times.



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 4):
I live in Detroit but grew up in East Central Illinois. It's only about eight hours by car from Detroit to Sullivan. I'm wondering if there is a reason why the body would be shipped via air instead of via ground.

. I was unaware about ground shipping. Who handles that? A company like UPS? Maybe his mom wanted air because it was faster.

My buddy, Mitch's body will be flying into STL.

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 4):
Condolences on your recent loss.

Thank you. He died of a heart attack, he was 29. He had a HUGE drinking problem and had other health issues, it doesn't come as a huge shock, but I was not expecting it so soon.

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 3):
If the director were concerned about the size/weight of the casket, they can arrange to send the body in a smaller, lightweight fiberboard shipping casket and have the receiving funeral director arrange for the other one. I suppose that if the remains could be fitted into the smaller cargo hold, they might have to bump some passenger bags and/or other lower priority freight.

Mitch weighed in at 400 plus pounds so I could see him bumping some stuff on a CRJ. He would have got a kick out of that.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Pilotboi
Posted 2007-12-24 20:08:00 and read 159804 times.

HRs are shipped as cargo...and as said already, they are usually taken care of by the funeral director of some sort. I don't personally know the fees involved, because I don't work at cargo, but I can't imagine it's cheap. I will tell you this - funeral homes that use DL out of DAB (and I'm sure this is available at other stations) receive SkyMiles for the final destination trips that their HRs go on.

As for talk about what aircraft are used...as far as we go, we never put HRs on CRJs. Unless it's a shorter person, or a child (not exactly the funnest experience), it can't really fit on an RJ, unless it's almost empty. Although I did put a very small 8"x8"x8" box once on an RJ that had human remains...the ashes only.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):
I hear that they are a pain in the butt to 'shoehorn' the caskets in the M80's....

If you mean turn them, because of the size of the bins...yes, you are right. Especially larger ones. Sometimes it takes a few of us to get it into or out of the bin because of the size of the HR and the shape of the bin.

Overall, it's an odd experience - for someone who doesn't do autopsies regularly or anything. But someone's gotta do it, and it's all part of the job.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Boeing777228
Posted 2007-12-24 20:51:16 and read 159754 times.

I do services for Royal Jordanian at DTW. We send human remains back to the Middle East often. I would say it averages $2000-$3000 per body.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Threepoint
Posted 2007-12-24 21:44:23 and read 159678 times.



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 9):
Mitch weighed in at 400 plus pounds so I could see him bumping some stuff on a CRJ.

Hmm...this time of year, probably not much room to fit that size package into the bottom of an RJ. If he has to be flown home, I'd imagine a cargo carrier (FedEx, UPS, etc) serves Decatur? But judging from the small distances we're talking about (Detroit to Sullivan), Mitch may as well go by road - he'd be um, home for Christmas.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-24 21:48:32 and read 159673 times.



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
If you mean turn them, because of the size of the bins...yes, you are right. Especially larger ones. Sometimes it takes a few of us to get it into or out of the bin because of the size of the HR and the shape of the bin.

 checkmark  Yup, that's exactly what I meant. I cannot imagine being the ramper to load the casket on the M80 or being the ramper in the back of the forward cargo pit and imaging being stuck back there....

Creepy.

Falstaff, my condolences to your loss.  pray 

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: 57AZ
Posted 2007-12-24 21:58:15 and read 159652 times.



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 9):

I was unaware about ground shipping. Who handles that?

There are services that will transport the body by ground for the funeral director, if they choose not to transport it themselves. Usually the body will be transported using a "First Call" vehicle-usually a van or truck but occasionally an older model hearse. The vehicle will almost certainly have the landau irons on the rear quarter panels. These vehicles are routinely used to transport the remains from the morgue or hospital to the funeral home and to transport supplies such as chairs, flowers, casket lowering winches, etc. between the funeral home and cemetery.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Tennis69
Posted 2007-12-24 22:24:23 and read 159619 times.

Just a question. Why not have him cremated in Detroit and use Fedex to ship to Illinois? That's got to be the most economical.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: 57AZ
Posted 2007-12-25 01:21:44 and read 159308 times.



Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 15):
Just a question. Why not have him cremated in Detroit and use Fedex to ship to Illinois? That's got to be the most economical.

That decision would have to be made by the next of kin, assuming that the deceased did not leave instructions as to their wish. Some faiths prohibit the cremation for religious reasons. Last I read, cremation was still less popular than traditional burial by something like a 2 to 1 ratio, but it is increasing in popularity. My paternal grandfather was cremated and my grandmother will be cremated upon her passing, as will my father, mother and I. I don't know what my brother specified in his living will, but I wouldn't be surprised if he indicated cremation as well.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Cchan
Posted 2007-12-25 01:33:56 and read 159259 times.

I flew on a Saab340 from RAR to AIT in the Cook Islands with a body in the cargo hold. The body was shipped in a coffin, and was treated with respect by Air Rarotonga. A few passengers were bumped off (apparently the coffin is heavy), but at least some small turboprops can take bodies as cargo.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Rogerbcn
Posted 2007-12-25 01:38:37 and read 159231 times.

Hola!

My grandmother died in Calgary in 1991 where she moved in the 1970s and she wanted to be buried in Girona, Spain, with my grandfather. All was arranged long before she passed away and it cost about 6,000 CDN$ at the time to take her on the flight YYC-FRA-BCN. I know it well because my aunt has had the same arrangements for herself. It ca be all arranged and paid in advance if that is your specific wish. Apart from the airfare you have to pay for a special metal coffin covering the wood one, plus taxes and all sorts of permits crossing borders.

I was on the flight back and I could see the coffin being taken on the cargo load, obviously not with luggage and regular cargo carts.

I have to say that AC staff were really nice and caring as they knew I was the relative travelling with her. Offered me to sit on a separate seat, offered me extra attention during the flight and cheered my spirit up.

Salut,

Roger

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-25 04:12:47 and read 158666 times.

There are two different types of containers used to ship HR's (Human Remains).

The "Air-Tray".
This container is composed of a plywood or fiberboard tray with raised edges and a cardboard-box type top section.
This is used when an HR is shipped in a casket or coffin, whichever the case may be. (Coffin's are fitted to the shoulders and narrow at the feet and are rarely seen in the U.S. where rectangular shaped caskets are used. Sometimes a "Ziegler Case" made of thin metal is used that is hermetically sealed or sealed by lead or screws as required by some countries when shipping an HR internationally). The casket or coffin is set into the tray and nylon straps used to secure it to the tray. Then the cardboard top is secured over the top (the edges of the top fit down inside the edges of the tray). Nylon straps then are tightened and secure the top to the tray.

The "Combo-Pak".
This container is used when an HR is to be transported WITHOUT an outside container such as a casket/coffin.
These have heavy, thick bases and sides to them with nylon straps inside to secure the ankles, waist and chest areas of the remains. There is a large foam "pillow" at the head-end to support the head, and a lid made of thick cardboard to place over the top.

"Combo-Pak's" are generally used when the deceased passes away far from their home-town and/or there is no type of service whatsoever to be held where the person passed away.The idea is to get the remains itself shipped back to a recieving mortuary facility for final disposition. The remains are then casketed at the recieving mortuary. This process also saves a good bit of money in the shipping because the weight of a casket/coffin is not involved. These containers generally have a pretty thick piece of plastic sheeting included, it is spread out and the remains placed in it and then the plastic sheeting wrapped around the remains to contain any leakage that might occur. ALSO, because the "Combo-Pak" does not contain a casket or other type of container within, it has smaller dimensions. It will fit into smaller compartments than an "Air-Tray", so is easier to handle and as previously mentioned, does not have the weight of the casket----so is cheaper to ship.

Of course, no matter which container is used, there are guidlines that must be followed concerning the preparation of the remains. Most of the time HR's shipped here within the US have been embalmed prior to shipment. There are exceptions made to accomodate the laws and customs of different religions (whose customs prohibit embalming) when possible, and the remains are usually packed in dry-ice for the trip. Also, there are various other regulations imposed by the air carriers and governments involved and it is up to the funeral director to be sure these details are complied with.

Typically these containers are very plainly marked. They are usually marked with signage that indicates the "HEAD" end of the container and possibly "HR- Handle with Care". While awaiting their flight they are usually placed on a cart by themselves that sometimes has a canvas drape of some sort to protect the container from rain or direct sun.

The whole idea of a family being able to air-ship the remains of a loved one is a wonderful thing. In the piston-engined era this was usually not possible unless the aircraft was a dedicated freighter with large main-deck cargo doors. In those days HR's were usually shipped by rail/sea, and or driven in a hearse or service vehicle, which, of course, was a much slower shipping process.

The statistics on how many HR's are shipped by air are usually a surprise to the average person. During the winter season in Florida, when the population swells with the elderly escaping the winter cold from up north, HR's have been known to be the #1 airfreight for a carrier on any given sector. I can remember years ago in TPA when it was quite common to see a dozen or more containers on carts waiting for their flights, hiding out of sight, under the airside building of the respective carrier involved.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: LuiePL
Posted 2007-12-25 04:26:45 and read 158602 times.

When I was working down at PHL, DL was a major HR carrier. I would see on average 1 "Air-Tray" a day. AA was pretty close behind. I never really saw any on US or the other carriers. I would agree that it is done through the funeral home, because I would always see the hearses in cargo city.

My condolences to you and your friends family.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: 57AZ
Posted 2007-12-25 04:41:00 and read 158538 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
In the piston-engined era this was usually not possible unless the aircraft was a dedicated freighter with large main-deck cargo doors. In those days HR's were usually shipped by rail/sea, and or driven in a hearse or service vehicle, which, of course, was a much slower shipping process.

Traditionally, bodies shipped via rail were often accompanied by an attendant. Human Remains were never "shipped" but were escorted. The escort paid for two fares, one for themselves and one for the corpse. Usually the remains were shipped in the express or baggage car. Back in the days of train robberies, many express or baggage men would load the remains first, stacking the other shipments tightly on and around the casket, making it impossible to open from the inside. Hiding in a casket and emerging once the train was underway was a favorite trick of some desperatos.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Pilotboi
Posted 2007-12-25 06:32:24 and read 158099 times.



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 12):
Hmm...this time of year, probably not much room to fit that size package into the bottom of an RJ

No time of year would there be room in the bottom of an RJ. That bin is about a foot and a half tall - tall enough to lay a standard roller carry-on bag on its side. Checked baggage and cargo goes in the aft bin - which is behind the passengers, and as tall as the cabin. The door is just underneath the left engine.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
Yup, that's exactly what I meant. I cannot imagine being the ramper to load the casket on the M80 or being the ramper in the back of the forward cargo pit and imaging being stuck back there....

Creepy.

Yeah - I've done that many times, getting "stuck back there". But the bin is wide enough where you can get out on the side. Still not something I get up in the morning and say "I really want to do that".

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 14):
Usually the body will be transported using a "First Call" vehicle-usually a van or truck but occasionally an older model hearse.

I've offloaded an HR, after Cargo was closed, onto a minivan (I believe it was a Dodge Caravan) that was fitted with rollers in the back to allow for easy loading and unloading. What made it worse though, the whole family was off to the side in their own minivan, obviously not doing too well. That's not the time to make a mistake.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
The "Combo-Pak".

Nothing like knowing your a few inches away from something that, a few days hours/days ago, was a living, breathing, talking person, and now there not doing much at all. And the only thing between you and them is a piece of cardboard.

After all I've said though - I take some honor is being able to do this job. Like said before, this option wasn't always available to most people, so it's nice to know I can help provide this service. To anyone who has to use it: you have my sympathies.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-25 07:03:38 and read 157947 times.



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 16):
Last I read, cremation was still less popular than traditional burial by something like a 2 to 1 ratio, but it is increasing in popularity.

You have that backwards. Cremation is now much more popular than traditional burial, more like 3:1 to 4:1. How I know this: My mother is currently a moritician/funeral home director for a few funeral homes in the state of Oregon. She has been doing this for years.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-12-25 07:07:30 and read 157928 times.

Regardless what carriers regulations apply on US domestic, the International Carriage by Air of Human Remains is handled as in Rule 3.7.9 of the TACT

3.7.9 HUMAN REMAINS

Calculations

Areas Ashes Coffins
All IATA areas Applicable GCR Normal GCR
except within area 2

Within IATA area 2 300% of 200% of Normal GCR
normal GCR

The normal minimum charges are applicable, except for carriage withi TC2 where the min charge is 200% and not less than USD 65,00


Normal rate agreements of volume rates do not apply. There is a Commodity rate for HUGOs betrween Germany and Turkey, making it much cheaper to ship.

General rule and regulation - HUGOs may inly be delivereed and picked up to/from airports by hearses owned and operated by funeral homes-

That's why funeral homes make a killing out of the shipment of HUGOs.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2007-12-25 07:15:27 and read 157890 times.

http://www.customairtrays.com/

kind of interesting reading

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: BHMBAGLOCK
Posted 2007-12-25 07:33:05 and read 157998 times.



Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 15):
Just a question. Why not have him cremated in Detroit and use Fedex to ship to Illinois? That's got to be the most economical.

If he happened to be Mormon, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish, or another faith that prohibits or discourages cremation, then this could be an explanation.

As far as the need for quick shipment over what is not a terribly long drive, some religions such as Judaism(not so much Reform) require burial as soon as reasonably possible after death.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: JAGflyer
Posted 2007-12-25 08:41:51 and read 157648 times.

The figure $5000 comes to mind for shipping a body from YYZ to TLV on AC. I was told this by someone who had to do it a few years ago. A lot of people want to be buried in Israel. I can safely say almost every LY flight between YYZ and TLV has a body onboard.

When a family friend had to ship their father from Toronto to Montreal he was driven in the hurst between the two cities for an addition cost.

[Edited 2007-12-25 08:47:01]

[Edited 2007-12-25 08:47:53]

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-25 09:32:39 and read 157394 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 23):
like 3:1 to 4:1

Those numbers may be the norm in Oregon and other areas out west, but that is certainly not the case on the east coast, and the deep south in particular.
While there has been a significant increase in cremation over the last ten years or so, traditional earth burial is still the preferred method of disposition in the east.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: SNAFlyboy
Posted 2007-12-25 10:39:15 and read 157064 times.

I've had some experiences with the "air-tray" type, and I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult to fit them into a regional jet. You have to maneuver them slightly even in a 737!

They are indeed treated as cargo, unfortunately. It's always sad to see HR shipments, dealing with human mortality while you do your job and all, but that's how it goes...

It sure is lonely sitting in the pit with a couple of HR shipments...poor guys...  indifferent 

Condolences,

~SNAFlyboy

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Falstaff
Posted 2007-12-25 11:29:13 and read 156817 times.



Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 15):
Why not have him cremated in Detroit and use Fedex to ship to Illinois? That's got to be the most economical.



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 16):
That decision would have to be made by the next of kin

He is no relation to me, just a good friend. His mother is in charge of the funeral/burial stuff. He will be buried next to his father.

Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 15):
That's got to be the most economical.

Mitch's family is not too concerned with cost. They never have been and I doubt they ever will be.

My family on the other hand....

My grandmother was cremated and we split up her ashes and mailed (USPS) half of them to my mom's sister. When my grandfather died a few years later my aunt mailed half of his remains to my mom. My mom put a mixture of my grandparents in a little urn. I forgot it was in my suitcase because she put it in the little zipper part I never use. My grandparents flew with me four times and rode on a train twice before I realized they were in there. They also got to go along on a neat adventure in a 1970 AM General M35A2 army truck.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 12):
Mitch may as well go by road - he'd be um, home for Christmas

He got into STL this morning.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: 57AZ
Posted 2007-12-25 15:23:41 and read 156688 times.



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 30):
My grandparents flew with me four times and rode on a train twice before I realized they were in there.

Reminds me of a story related to the Commander of the Arizona Air National Guard (friend of my parents). Twice in his career he promised to scatter cremains from a Guard flight. First time was operating F-4s. The speed brake provided a small pocket where the cremains could be placed prior to flight. Loaded the guy up, flew out over some land that the deceased owned and popped the brake, scattering him all over. Second time he was supposed to drop cremains, they were flying F-16s. He forgot that the F-16 lacks any pockets that can easily be used for that purpose so he drove around with the guy in his trunk for a while, trying to figure out what to do.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Mham001
Posted 2007-12-25 17:50:12 and read 156594 times.

Just do a "Bernie", put some dark sunglasses on him and buy him an economy seat.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: FLYB6JETS
Posted 2007-12-25 18:09:14 and read 156577 times.



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 6):
including B6

B6 does not regularly transport human remains. At least they didn't when I left, things may have changed since then.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Falstaff
Posted 2007-12-25 20:00:31 and read 156480 times.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 32):
Just do a "Bernie", put some dark sunglasses on him and buy him an economy seat.

Wouldn't work with ole' Mitch. Being 400 pounds plus he would need two Y seats. When he traveled he always bought two seats or flew F (whatever was cheapest) so somebody wouldn't get stuck being squished by a fat guy.

[Edited 2007-12-25 20:01:16]

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2007-12-26 00:26:43 and read 156347 times.

KHA also used to have a substantial human remains business. However, IIRC, DL is right up there, perhaps because it has so much service from the Northeast to Florida (as noted above). The links were excellent; I had seen the DL page before, but not CO and AA. Since the funeral director has substantial input to the carrier choice, if not practically complete authority over it, this is a specialized business that endeavors to make it as easy, turnkey and reliable and consistent as possible for the directors, who usually have a lot of moving parts that need to be brought together to accomplish their task and relatively lean staffs to accomplish it with. They want to make one call, and have their driver go to one familiar place and not have to wait around, either when delivering or picking up a body. And they want to know what it's going to cost with no hidden fees so they can write up their contract with the bereaved right then and there; hence the "no weighing required" fee structure. DL appears least expensive of the three for domestic routings, and as you can see from the marketing, all three carriers hit basically the same sales points that I describe above, and use language familiar to funeral directors, emphasizing caring and compassion and thus that they understand the funeral directors' business, although AA perhaps takes it a little further with their description of the Jim Wilson Desk.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: StasisLAX
Posted 2007-12-26 01:14:01 and read 156312 times.



Quoting Tennis69 (Reply 15):
Just a question. Why not have him cremated in Detroit and use Fedex to ship to Illinois? That's got to be the most economical.

I am not sure what Fedex regulations state, but here at DHL, all animal and human remains (including cremated remains) are considered prohibited items on US origin shipments. These items cannot be accepted for shipment via DHL ground or air services.

The main reason why we don't accept human or pet remains is this: what happens if the shipment is lost, stolen, or somehow damaged. There is no calculation or formula for how to pay a lost/damaged claim on a loved one's remains  no 

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-12-26 01:31:49 and read 156282 times.



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 36):
d. There is no calculation or formula for how to pay a lost/damaged claim on a loved one's remains

well, that's not the reason. The same liability limits and restrictions apply in case of loss or damage as to any other shipments. Spcfial care is always needed, I once had a case where 2 Portuguese kids persihed ion an accident. The funeral home, which was our customer, delivered the caskets on separate days. The parents of the one had the casket opened before burial and it was not their child. We got the blame in the famous German tabloid, although it was not our fault. The mix up happened with the funaral home.

Many countries however restrict the carriage of human remains to/from the airport. Human remains can only be carried by funeral homes and could never go on a express delivery van (of cremated) . Both FX and DHL , at least for their express product, have weight limits per single piece, which rules out the carriage of coffins anyway.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-26 05:30:22 and read 156177 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 28):

I was speaking more in terms of a nationwide 'trend', not just the western states and Oregon State. I should have indicated that too, but I didn't. My bad....

Quoting SNAFlyboy (Reply 29):
You have to maneuver them slightly even in a 737!

They are worse on the M80's!!!!!

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2007-12-26 07:27:53 and read 156120 times.



Quoting Boeing777228 (Reply 11):
I do services for Royal Jordanian at DTW. We send human remains back to the Middle East often. I would say it averages $2000-$3000 per body.

Sounds about right. The last LHR - PHL I arranged was about £800.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
General rule and regulation - HUGOs may inly be delivereed and picked up to/from airports by hearses owned and operated by funeral homes-

That's why funeral homes make a killing out of the shipment of HUGOs.

This isn't a regulation I've ever come across, certainly here in the UK no such rule exists, and I've never heard any Country I've dealt with mention it.

There are a small number of companies specialising in International repatriation, here in the UK the main one is Rowland Brothers International at Croydon .the primary requirements are to be convenient for the airports, as the freight warehouses expect you to remove the deceased as soon as the paperwork has been cleared, and to be near to the embassies, as you need to obtain permission prior to shipment.
Funeral directors normally engage one of these companies to work on their behalf, as they are carrying out the work every day and its more convenient.

In order to transport internationally we have to provide:
Death certificate
Passport
Free from fever & infection certificate - states that there are no epedemics in the country/region where death occurred
Embalming certificate
Appropriate release certificate from the country where death occurred
Whatever certification the destination country may issue from their embassy
A declaration as to the contents of the sealed coffin

For international transportation the coffin has to be hermetically sealed, from the USA this is normally a metal casket with hinged lid and gasket, with a locking mechanism; the rest of the world normally uses wooden coffins, with a zinc liner; these used to be soldered, but we now use silicone sealant as its easier & quicker to seal with (but really hard to remove)

Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 4):
I live in Detroit but grew up in East Central Illinois. It's only about eight hours by car from Detroit to Sullivan. I'm wondering if there is a reason why the body would be shipped via air instead of via ground.

Air freight here in the UK tends to works out less expensive once you reach the stage where a driver can't do the round trip in a day. London - Edinburgh might be about £300 by air. If you drive its two days wages, a hotel room & £100 worth of fuel

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: SBBRTech
Posted 2007-12-26 07:31:51 and read 156114 times.

3 years ago a co-worker here had to ship his deceased elder brother from CDG to BSB via GIG...overall cost was near US$ 7000,00 with Air France and some extra taxes later with GOL.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 08:21:06 and read 156031 times.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 24):
That's why funeral homes make a killing out of the shipment of HUGOs

I am not aware of any funeral homes in the U.S. that "surcharge" a family for transferring the remains of their loved ones by air. If transporting by land, the cost is computed on a by-the-mile basis. Since anyone can call an airline and get the rate to transport the remains by air, it would not serve the funeral homes well to "gouge" the family with extra charges. The only charges that would apply are for the services the funeral home renders, that would be needed to make the transfer, such as "Bongodog 1964" has already described in detail. In the U.S. a remains can be transported to the airline in any type of service vehicle, whether station-wagon, van, suv or hearse.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
Funeral directors normally engage one of these companies to work on their behalf

These companies offering services "to the trade only" are also growing in popularity within the U.S., however most funeral homes here would still prefer to keep everything "in-house" so as to control the level of quality.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Falstaff
Posted 2007-12-26 08:50:01 and read 155995 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 38):
They are worse on the M80's!!!!!

I would imagine shipping on a DC-9 or a 717 would also be difficult.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-12-26 09:07:51 and read 155971 times.



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
This isn't a regulation I've ever come across, certainly here in the UK no such rule exists, and I've never heard any Country I've dealt with mention it.

well , in Germany there is. Human remains can be delivered and picked up to and from airports only by Funeral Homes in a hearse. Same applies for intercity transfer.

Funeral homes do all the paperwork, they handle the sealing of the coffin and the outer case etc. . That's a nice total amount.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
Air freight here in the UK tends to works out less expensive once you reach the stage where a driver can't do the round trip in a day. London - Edinburgh might be about �300 by air. If you drive its two days wages, a hotel room & �100 worth of fuel

You forgot the kilometer charge. Forget about the fuel, that is included in the rate per kilometer. Expenses for the driver come extra. Air should be way cheaper on 500 km.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2007-12-26 09:23:32 and read 155958 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 41):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
Funeral directors normally engage one of these companies to work on their behalf

These companies offering services "to the trade only" are also growing in popularity within the U.S., however most funeral homes here would still prefer to keep everything "in-house" so as to control the level of quality.

Here in the UK we would handle everything "in house" if its domestic; the reason for using a specialist repatriation agent for non domestic, is because they can access the embassies far easier, they employ staff who are fluent in the worlds major languages and their depot is close to LHR making delivery & collection easier. "Quality doen't really come into it, because the funeral directors hand them a sealed coffin, which they pass on to the airline, plus we know the flight number and AWB number in advance.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 43):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
Air freight here in the UK tends to works out less expensive once you reach the stage where a driver can't do the round trip in a day. London - Edinburgh might be about �300 by air. If you drive its two days wages, a hotel room & �100 worth of fuel

You forgot the kilometer charge. Forget about the fuel, that is included in the rate per kilometer. Expenses for the driver come extra. Air should be way cheaper on 500 km.

Believe me, I never forget the mileage.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 43):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
This isn't a regulation I've ever come across, certainly here in the UK no such rule exists, and I've never heard any Country I've dealt with mention it.

well , in Germany there is. Human remains can be delivered and picked up to and from airports only by Funeral Homes in a hearse. Same applies for intercity transfer.

Can't quite see how thats enforceable; whilst it would be difficult to arrange, the paperwork's a nightmare and it would probably be traumatic, it is possible for relatives to collect personally; how could you say no ?

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-12-26 09:57:15 and read 155914 times.



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
it is possible for relatives to collect personally; how could you say no

A coffin is handed out by the airline or their handling agent to the driver of a funeral home only. As simple as that. No family with a station waggon or a pick up truck rented from Hertz can collect it. They simply don't get it.

We have some funny laws in Germany. I know that in other countries, you can bury your dead on your own property. Here you can't.it has to be an official, dedicated cemetary.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 10:05:04 and read 155894 times.



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
they can access the embassies far easier, they employ staff who are fluent in the worlds major languages and their depot is close to LHR making delivery & collection easier. "Quality doen't really come into it

Yeah, well here in the "States" no one in funeral service finds easy access to the embassies. Unless, of course, someone has a friend in their employ.) And, unless an ethnic funeral home is chosen, it would be rare that a "shipping service" employee, (as they are known by here) would speak many different languages. Its a great idea though!

As for quality, I was referring more to the preparation of the remains. I have always thought it to be a good idea for the family or a close relative/or friend (who knew what the deceased normally looked like) view the body before it is shipped. This way both the funeral home and the family know that the appearance of the remains and the attention to the details such as dressing, and cosmetics, condition of clothing and casket, are done to everyone's complete satisfaction. I have found that this is pretty good "insurance" when it comes to a family being satisfied with the services of the "shipping" funeral home.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: RFields5421
Posted 2007-12-26 10:41:09 and read 155844 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 46):
Yeah, well here in the "States" no one in funeral service finds easy access to the embassies. Unless, of course, someone has a friend in their employ.) And, unless an ethnic funeral home is chosen, it would be rare that a "shipping service" employee, (as they are known by here) would speak many different languages. Its a great idea though!

Funeral directors associations have access to those specialists by their members. If someone needs to be taken home to anyplace in the world - the state / regional association can put the local funeral home in contact with the right people 24 hours a day to get everything done quickly and transparently for the family.

During my years in the US Navy, I've had the honor to deal with the transport of too many sailors to their homes. I've assisted airline cargo crews by crawling inside a cargo hold and draping a flag, and cutting away the card board protective cover over transfer cases.

One nightmare case which I was not involved with was a Saab 340 up on Maine back in the late 80's where the military transfer case was on something like an AirTray and the family was able to view the case being taken off the plane, with a local newspaper photographer present.

"Navy ships _______ home in cardboard box"

Was the headline in the local paper the next day.

In the fall of 1990, part of my job was meeting with airport, funeral and airline teams at several airports across Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Missouri, Kansas, Colorado and Wyoming. At each location we went over transport of the cases - screening the unloading - appropriate areas for transfer from the cargo truck to the funeral home - ensuring the transfer case was properly draped with a US flag when it came out of the hold.

For military arrivals - the family is frequently at the airport to see the transfer from the airline to the funeral home.

Luckily there were relatively few casualties in 1991.

In 2003, the airlines still transported military remains in the US, but it Congress felt the process 'undignified' for military members.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005...s/top_stories/22_22_2512_14_05.txt

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...news/2007/01/mil-070110-afps02.htm

Kalitta has a contract with the US military to transport remains directly from Dover to the airport nearest the service member's final resting place. This avoids some long surface transport times. The flights are in Falcon 20 aircraft - so they can go into relatively small airports without commercial service - and there is room for the military escort to fly on the aircraft with the remains.

US Air Force Seeking Casket Transport (by Bingo Dec 14 2006 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: RFields5421
Posted 2007-12-26 10:59:52 and read 155801 times.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/K...9/history/20071226/1326Z/KDOV/KMOR

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/KFS1399

http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=11582

I can't find any information on a death which would require the stop in Tennessee.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 11:27:53 and read 155753 times.



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 47):
Funeral directors associations have access to those specialists by their members. If someone needs to be taken home to anyplace in the world - the state / regional association can put the local funeral home in contact with the right people 24 hours a day to get everything done quickly and transparently for the family

Yeah, in whose utopian world might things always be that simple!?

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: DEVILFISH
Posted 2007-12-26 11:56:48 and read 155717 times.



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 39):
In order to transport internationally we have to provide:
Death certificate
Passport

I guess the authorities would accept an expired passport (highly unlikely that one can be issued posthumously) of the deceased as proof of identity and nationality - but what if no valid passport (i.e. lost) could be presented? Will the death and other certificates suffice or would the family be required to execute special affidavits?

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 12:10:45 and read 155698 times.



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 50):
Will the death and other certificates suffice or would the family be required to execute special affidavits?

Would depend a lot on the level of bureaucracy one encounters with the particular government officials. Sometimes it is not too bad, however, it is not unheard of for someone, even a family member to bribe a government official with money (big surprise) to get things moving, No matter what, things tend to move at a snail's pace if everything is not just right and to the letter of the law.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2007-12-26 12:18:27 and read 155679 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 49):
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 47):
Funeral directors associations have access to those specialists by their members. If someone needs to be taken home to anyplace in the world - the state / regional association can put the local funeral home in contact with the right people 24 hours a day to get everything done quickly and transparently for the family

Yeah, in whose utopian world might things always be that simple!?

RFields is correct in that, Impearial. You can only have a deceased around the 'living world' (I cannot think of a better term...) for a very short amount of time, citing local and national health regulations. This is coming from my mortician mother...  wave 

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2007-12-26 15:22:20 and read 155583 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 46):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 44):
they can access the embassies far easier, they employ staff who are fluent in the worlds major languages and their depot is close to LHR making delivery & collection easier. "Quality doen't really come into it

Yeah, well here in the "States" no one in funeral service finds easy access to the embassies. Unless, of course, someone has a friend in their employ.) And, unless an ethnic funeral home is chosen, it would be rare that a "shipping service" employee, (as they are known by here) would speak many different languages. Its a great idea though!

By "easy access", I meant being in close proximity to them; as the only sure fire way to get the necessary documents stamped and signed, is to turn up on the door step and wait until they are completed. I can't speak for how this is done in the rest of the world, but it is the way its done in the UK.
With regard to being fluent in foreign languages, surely its a basic requirement for any business working on a worldwide basis. You are far more likely to get things happening quickly if you speak the correct language. Shouting very slowly down the telephone in English, is not a good way of getting things done quickly. If you have staff fluent in English, French, Spanish & German you should be able to converse reasonably with most businesses across the world.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: JoKeR
Posted 2007-12-26 15:34:34 and read 155574 times.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 45):
A coffin is handed out by the airline or their handling agent to the driver of a funeral home only. As simple as that. No family with a station waggon or a pick up truck rented from Hertz can collect it. They simply don't get it.

We have some funny laws in Germany. I know that in other countries, you can bury your dead on your own property. Here you can't.it has to be an official, dedicated cemetary.

Its same here in Serbia - very tightly regulated, and thankfully so!

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: TWAL1011727
Posted 2007-12-26 16:03:13 and read 155543 times.

Delta charges based on the zones involved..(most majors use the same rate basis)

Zone A - northeast
Zone B - southeast
Zone C - midwest
Zone D - gulf coast
Zone E - rocky mountains
Zone F - pacific coast
(these zones may have changed...DL doesn't have the TACT books in outlying stations anymore)

also zones for HNL and SJU and Alaska

The rates range from $260.00 to $690.00 and are based on 80-500 lbs ttl shipment weight
($65.00-$111.00 for 79 lbs and below)

From HNL to JFK it costs $970.00

These are flat rates up to 500 lbs....also for some odd reason...DL charges more for northbound bodies
than for southbound bodies (in certain zones)
Int'l rates are per kilo

KD

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2007-12-26 16:05:26 and read 155547 times.

A couple of related pieces of trivia:

Schiphol Airport at AMS is one of the few (possibly only?) airports with its own mortuary. If you arrive/depart on KL City Hopper Fokker 50/70/100s and other carriers using small regional aircraft which require a bus between the aircraft and terminal, you go past the mortuary if you know where to look. It's on the ground floor of about a 10-storey building.

It's mentioned in the following site:
http://www.aam-schiphol.nl/Chaplaincy.htm

Relevant excerpt:

Amsterdam Airport Schiphol is one of the few airports which has a fully operational mortuary, capable of handling up to 40 bodies. On average the mortuary deals with approximately 2000 bodies per year, about 60 % of which are in repatriation or transit to foreign places of burial and 40% returning to the Netherlands. On occasion the airport chaplaincy will be called in to accompany the bereaved on their visit to the mortuary.

Also, when an AA DC-10-10 lost one of its cargo doors after departure from Detroit in June 1972, causing a depressurization and major damage and loss of rudder control when the rear cabin floor collapsed into the cargo compartment and jammed control cables, a human remains shipment in a coffin was ejected from the aircraft and landed in a field (relatively intact apparently).
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720612-0

Luckily the aircraft was able to return for a safe emergency landing but with serious control problems. Unfortunately, FAA recommendations for changes to address the cargo door problem weren't made mandatory and two years later in March 1974 a TK DC-10-10 crashed soon after takeoff from ORY after an almost identical incident, but in that case control was lost and all 346 passengers and crew were killed.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19740303-1

The two aircraft involved in those incidents. The AA DC-10-10, the 5th DC-10 built, was repaired and remained in AA service for another 21 years until 1993.


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Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 16:51:51 and read 155499 times.



Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 53):
is to turn up on the door step and wait until they are completed.

That is likely a good strategy----- if one can pull it off without angering the embassy staff!

Not surprisingly, as seen by the difference in our opinions, things are done much differently here in my part of the world as opposed to where you are.

Even a fairly busy firm doing 700 calls a year and up, may only do a few out of the country transfers a year depending on their location and clientele. Also, your average "mom & pop" funeral home here in the States is unlikely to have a multi-lingual staff speaking four or more languages. (Many of them do, however, have children coming up now who are learning to speak spanish as well as english.) Unless of course, they are an "ethnic" funeral home to begin with.
Obviously an ethnic firm specializing in service to asian, italian, spanish or a firm specializing in Jewish funerals, is going to have people on board who "speak the language". In the U.S. they are usually found in the large metropolitan cities. Even then there can be issues.

Nowadays, nothing is ever simple.

BTW have you really worked with people who "shout english, slowly down the phone" to try to get things done?

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: BHMBAGLOCK
Posted 2007-12-26 17:09:17 and read 155480 times.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 52):
RFields is correct in that, Impearial. You can only have a deceased around the 'living world' (I cannot think of a better term...) for a very short amount of time, citing local and national health regulations. This is coming from my mortician mother...

Unless it's Lenin or James Brown.

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 55):
These are flat rates up to 500 lbs....also for some odd reason...DL charges more for northbound bodies than for southbound bodies (in certain zones)

Funny, you normally pay the extra toll to get out of NJ, not back in. DL obviously has this backwards.  Smile

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2007-12-26 17:17:08 and read 155470 times.



Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 58):
Funny, you normally pay the extra toll to get out of NJ, not back in

 laughing  Too funny!

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: DEVILFISH
Posted 2007-12-26 18:29:08 and read 155423 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 51):
Would depend a lot on the level of bureaucracy one encounters with the particular government officials. Sometimes it is not too bad, however, it is not unheard of for someone, even a family member to bribe a government official with money (big surprise) to get things moving, No matter what, things tend to move at a snail's pace if everything is not just right and to the letter of the law.

Ah, yes. dollarsign  One would half expect government functionaries to actually identify the corpse visually from the passport photo, due to their fastidiousness.  frown 

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 56):
shipment in a coffin was ejected from the aircraft and landed in a field (relatively intact apparently).

This gives the term "flying coffin" a very literal meaning. Smile I wonder if the family sued for damages.  tombstone 

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: StasisLAX
Posted 2007-12-27 00:20:36 and read 155317 times.



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 37):
well, that's not the reason. The same liability limits and restrictions apply in case of loss or damage as to any other shipments

With all due respect, that's incorrect.

I work for DHL in a corporate capacity, and was provided with that information in several formal training classes. I refer to this information when servicing domestic and international shippers and have been asked if we would handle cremated remains in the past by clients. Same reasoning as to why we won't ship antiques or unique art or sports collectibles of any kind as these items are also prohibited. There is no standard claims formula for something that cannot be replaced.

Yes, there are the standard liability limits that you've mentioned; in specific circumstances, these standard limits can be raised by the internal DHL risk management director and their team regarding a specific shipment or for specific shippers.

The complete restricted and prohibited commodities listing can be found at www.dhl-usa.com/resources/Prohibited_Restricted_Commodities.pdf

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: PanHAM
Posted 2007-12-27 01:23:10 and read 155287 times.



Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 50):
I guess the authorities would accept an expired passport (highly unlikely that one can be issued posthumously) of the deceased as proof of identity and nationality - but what if no valid passport (i.e. lost) could be presented? Will the death and other certificates suffice or would the family be required to execute special affidav

In international carriage, the consulate will issue the necessary documents. No transport is carried out without valid documentaiton issued by the consulate that represents the country of citizenship of the deceased.



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 61):

With all due respect, that's incorrect.

OK, that is a self imposed restriction by DHL. That does not mean that other carriers handle this matter differently. As an integrator, I would not handle this kind of cargo either, unless there is a special handlings unit within the company. Based in the US, I would not even then handle HR. However, we do not have a similar "culture" of Multi Million Dollar law suits in most European countries.

A FAK carrier views things differently. That is why there are CLASS RATES which are not subject to the normal discounting. The surcharges of class rates are not to rip off customers but to pay for the extra handling and extra attention such shipments require. In addition to the class rate leviued for the carriage, there are usually additonal charges for the airport handling, the interim storage before and after flights.

Still, the liability for shipments are governed by the Warsaw Convention, the Hague Protocoll and the applicable country laws, plus the conditions of carriage. There are no extra provisions for the liability of HR shipments.

It remains to be with the carrier to decide whether or not he will handle HR shipments. Most FAK carriers do as it is a good revenue and, least, a service to the general public, especially these days where migration os common around the world.

.

Topic: RE: How Much Does It Cost To Fly A Body?
Username: Bongodog1964
Posted 2007-12-27 01:54:17 and read 155278 times.



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 57):
BTW have you really worked with people who "shout english, slowly down the phone" to try to get things done?

Believe me, it happens here. In the UK we are only now seeing the death of the generations who were educated in the knowledge that the British empire ruled the world. Anyone who was educated prior to Indian independence in 1947 was brought up in the knowledge that the sun never set on the empire.
To give an example of this, on Christmas day my mother mentioned that when she went on holiday to Switzerland "they didn't speak english"

The result of this is that we have a very poor grasp of foreign languages; and expect everyone else to speak English. I have to admit that I was educated under such a system, and have no grasp of foreign languages at all.


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