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Topic: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: ExpressJet_ERJ
Posted 2007-12-26 23:47:30 and read 7459 times.

Ok I dont want to start this into the new "DC9 will never die" thread. But I want to work at NWA in the near future, but what is bothering me is what is the plan for aircraft. Is there any other planes on order other than the 787s? All 330s have been delivered I read. And I know that the DC9 fleet is now under 100 ships. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Take care!

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2007-12-27 07:10:38 and read 7232 times.

The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2007-12-27 07:37:33 and read 7174 times.

Here is the latest & greatest (I apologize if my numbers are off by a few)

Saab 340 B+ (34 pax) - 49 operated by Mesaba
CRJ-200 (50 pax) - 141 124 operated by Pinnacle, 17 operated by Mesaba (2 were delivered new to Mesaba, 15 are coming over from Pinnacle in early '08)
CRJ-900 (76 pax)- 36 total (11 currently delivered, 25 on order) operated by Mesaba in 2-class 76 seat configuration
EMB-175 (76 pax)- 36 total (7 currently delivered, 29 on order) operated by Compass in 2-class 76 seat configuration
DC-9-30 (100 pax) - 57 total
DC-9-40 (110 pax) - 12 total
DC-9-50 (125 pax) - 34 total
A319 (124 pax) - 57 in service, 5 on order
A320 (150 pax) - 73 in service, 2 on order
757-200 (160-184 pax) - 55 total (7 currently are in 160 seat Trans-Atlantic configuration, 5 are in Pacific WBC configuration for NRT-intra Asia flying)
757-300 (224 pax) - 16 total
A330-200 (243 pax) - 11 total
A330-300 (298 pax) - 21 total
747-400 (403 pax) - 16 total
787-8 (~220 pax) - 18 on order

Summary:

Regional:
The Saab's, delivered new in 1996-1998 are on lease through 2011-2013, and will remain for the time with no real suitable replacement for the mission other than perhaps the Q200. They will all be painted into the new livery in 2008 as well as receiving new seats & deep cleaning.
CRJ-200's are status quo, other than Mesaba getting 15 from Pinnacle in early '08, based out of MSP (IMHO - depending on the cost of fuel, how the Pinnacle pilot contract negotiations escalate, and short term traffic projections 1-2 dozen could be parked/lease terminations sometime in '08-'09)
CRJ-900 fleet is building up with most deliveries in '08 to be based out of DTW. They will eventually make it down to MEM later in the year
EMB-175 fleet is also building up, with most deliveries in '08 based out of MSP. DTW & MEM will see their first 175 flying starting in early Jan. '08. (finally getting the CRJ off of BOS-MEM)

Narrowbody:
The DC-9 fleet will continue to be NW's variable capacity which they can scale back or increase based on demand. A few more frames will be parked in 2008 but that number will depend on multiple factors (demand, fuel, heavy maintenance). Some DC-9 flying will be replaced by CRJ-900's & EMB-175's as is currently starting at many of the smaller outstations (like MBS, OMA, DSM) and in other instances it is upgauging CRJ-200 flying. Rumors are out there regarding a potential order for EMB-190/195's as a 100 seat replacement for the -30's & -40's, but until the official press release comes out, its all speculation. Until that time also, the DC-9's will continue to be the trusted workhorse that they have been for decades. DC-9-50 flying has actually increased during 2007 since NW sold a number of A319's to foreign airlines to cover shorter routes that require a 125 seat aircraft. Despite the cost of fuel, the DC-9's still remain cost-competitive on shorter stage flights.

A number of A319/A320 aircraft (about 20) has leases rejected during bankruptcy or were sold over the past 2 years. Despite that there are handful still on a continually deffered order. (IMHO those aircraft may never be delivered as NW has zero need at this point for additional 125-150 seat aircraft. Perhaps when they finally retire the -50's they may pick up a few more A319's, but it very possible that NW will not take anymore narrowbody Airbuses until the next generation aircraft is on the market)

There are 5 sub-types of 757's: 5500 domestic, 5600 domestic, 5600 Pacific, 5600 Atlantic, 5800 757-300.
10 of the 5600's have winglets (which includes the 7 configured for TATL flying, and the remaining 3 may be converted depending on Summer 2008 TATL flying) and all 5600 series are supposed to get winglets at some point in time. The 5500 series have the shoddiest interiors of any aircraft in the NW fleet and the rumor keeps coming up that they may be refurbed in the near future - but nothing definete at this point.

Widebodies:
The last A330 was delivered around the end of October bringing the fleet up to a total of 32.

The future of the 744 is somewhat uncertain in NW's fleet, depending on the 787. The 18 787's currently on order will primarily be used to launch new routes, but depending on the amount that "overflies" NRT the role of the 744 may be diminshed. It has been mentioned a some portion, or eventually all of the 744 fleet could be converted to all cargo to replace the 742F's. Additionally there are 50 options for more 787 in the future.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-12-27 07:38:07 and read 7170 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1):
The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.

Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: NwAflyer07
Posted 2007-12-27 08:40:43 and read 7037 times.



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3):
Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.

Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself) The 737 to delta is like the DC-9 to NW. Since 737s are newer, more efficient aircraft, they will immediately phase out the DC-9s. If NW remains its own, individual airline then perhaps the 190/.195s and C series will be ordered.

I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.

BTW, great fleet summary, PUS.DTW.SCE!

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2007-12-27 08:55:03 and read 6986 times.



Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4):
I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.

When did DL announce they would have a "big announcement" on Jan 7?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2007-12-27 09:14:39 and read 6909 times.



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3):
Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.



Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4):
Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself) The 737 to delta is like the DC-9 to NW. Since 737s are newer, more efficient aircraft, they will immediately phase out the DC-9s. If NW remains its own, individual airline then perhaps the 190/.195s and C series will be ordered.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 1):
The DC-9 replacement is expected to be announced this year... that is, if they don't merge with Delta here shortly. Then it will be the 737 series probably.

As we've said time and time again - there will not be a direct one-for-one DC-9 replacement. There will be replacement CAPACITY for the DC-9 capacity but it will be a mix of different aircraft. This is mostly due to the changing nature of the domestic system and the post-bankruptcy reorganization.

The DC-9 replacement capacity will be in a variety of forms. This essentially includes anything between 50-125 seats. Remember that when they got the ARJ in the late 90's, it was intended to replace the DC-9-10's. The ARJ replacement is also rolled up in this same space. The future replacement will include the following:

CRJ-200's
CRJ-900's
EMB-175's
A 100 +/- seat aircraft
A319's

Note that some of these aircraft are already in the fleet, or on order. The remaining piece of the puzzle is for the 100 seat aircraft and potentially some more 125 seaters.

As for additional A319/A320's, it is doubtful you will see substancially more, if any additional A319/A320's. NW has parted with a number of new A319's in the past year, deemed to be excess along with high ownership costs.

Remember that NW is keeping their domestic system capacity flat, and in some instances getting smaller. Hence why markets are seeing smaller aircraft with fewer seats, but in some instances more frequency. NW has become a lot more lean since Ch. 11.

NW has a plan that they are rolling out over time. They can only replace so much at one time. They finished up the DC-10 replacement with the A330, they are underway with the CR9's & E175's, and the 787's will be up next. From a financial & logistical perspective, don't expect any new 100 seat aircraft until AT LEAST Late 2009. The 100 seaters won't arrive until the current CR9 & 175 orders have been fulfilled.

NW is playing both manufacturers off of each other to get the best deal and each knows it is very important. Hence the posturing and positioning and speculation about E-190/195s vs. C-Series.

They were potentially ready to announce the order in late 2007 / early 2008, but waiting to see if any potential mergers pan out.

As for 737's - not going to happen. Even "IF" DL were to take NW, they would likely replace the DC-9 capacity with the same strategy that NW is currently following. The 73G (and A319/A320) is a substantially larger aircraft and not economical to fly on many of the short hops in the Upper Midwest where NW hauls a significant amount of traffic.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-12-27 09:15:36 and read 6909 times.



Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4):
I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th.

Any link available for this by chance?

I honestly don't think there will be much in the way of merger / acquisitions in the airline business this year. With the credit markets as dire as they are, capital intensive industries with spotty earnings records are going to be near impossible to finance. (The airline industry has a horrific track record for ROI.) Since there are only a couple of airlines with solid balance sheets I don't see much M&A within the majors this year from one buying the other. You either need lots of cash / cash equivalents or a deep funding pool as only experienced merger houses have. But even those experts like KKR & Cerebrus are having difficulties financing their cashflow needs.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DL767captain
Posted 2007-12-27 09:22:17 and read 6867 times.

WHile the DC-9 is important to them now blah blah blah the rest of the stuff about their DC-9s, they will need to be replaced at some time, But what will they choose

DC-9: Capacity: 100-125 Range: 3,000-3,120 km

So there is the E-190/195 Capacity: 108-118 Range: 2,593-3,334 km

A319 (would give commanality with current planes) Capacity: 125 (2 class) range: 6,800 km

737-700 Capacity: 124 Range: 6,230 km

There is also the C-series (hard to find info on this plane though) Capacity: (C130) 130(dont know if that is 1 class or 2) range: 3,335 km


It seems like the E jets or the C series would be best, almost the same capacity and range and would offer better efficiency than the A319 or the 737 since they arent really made for those routes (would be a waste of range)

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2007-12-27 10:07:54 and read 6728 times.



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 3):
Hmmm, that's the first I've heard of this. The pilots are expecting Airbus 319/320 orders along with either an Embraer 190/195 or Bombardier C series launch order. Not 737.

Hmm, living with one and talking with one nothing has been heard about more Airbus's, the rumor only has been the 190/195 and if your read my statement I said that IF THEY MERGE with DELTA then it would be the 737 probably.

Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4):
Thats because most pilots aren't concerned about the Delta merger. (talked to a few myself)

I don't know about that since the union is now deducting huge fees from the pilots for merger research.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-12-27 10:18:06 and read 6673 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I said that IF THEY MERGE with DELTA then it would be the 737 probably.

Sorry my bad, I read your opening post differently than you had intended it to be read then. It seemed to me to read that if they didn't merge with Delta the replacement aircraft for the DC9 was the 737.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: CAP2008
Posted 2007-12-27 15:54:14 and read 6332 times.

Does anyone have an idea how much longer the 742 freighters will be around?

(I'm hoping that NW replaces its 742F's with pax 744's/744F's, and orders the 748i crossfingers  )

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2007-12-27 16:20:50 and read 6243 times.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I don't know about that since the union is now deducting huge fees from the pilots for merger research

ALPA just wants more money. It is run by senior 744 and 330 pilots who won't even know the difference between having Delta or NWA painted on the side of their airplane if a merger happens anyway.

Quoting CAP2008 (Reply 11):
Does anyone have an idea how much longer the 742 freighters will be around?

From what I have seen, they are leaning towards converted 744s and I think they would like to get rid of the 742s as soon as they can replace them efficiently. Of course, the loss of the DHL contract clouds the future of NWA Cargo somewhat.

[Edited 2007-12-27 16:23:51]

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Eghansen
Posted 2007-12-27 16:32:42 and read 6191 times.

I wouldn't be surprised that some of the DC9 routes get fobbed off to commuter airlines.

I have frequently flown from MSP to RST to visit my sister and the equipment alternates between DC9, SF34 and CR2/CR9. That is to say, this route is flown both by Mesaba and Northwest mainline. I have always wondered why NW doesn't simply let Northwest Airlink run this route considering it is only about 80 miles in length.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2007-12-27 16:47:14 and read 6161 times.



Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 4):
I'm half looking forward to and half dreading the proposed "big announcement" from Delta to take place on January 7th

i must have missed this can i get a link(and its a monday i would guess A) NW buy out B) JFK terminal C) UA SFO,LAX,NRT and ORD buy or D) 787)

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: BoeingBus
Posted 2007-12-27 16:53:10 and read 6137 times.

Airbus will always have an edge due to their available slots for the A320. Airbus has already indicated that they will producing 40 per month... and with the new Chinese assembly line you are going to upwards of 50-60 per month in 5-7 years or so... Airbus is meeting the demand for this segment and Boeing is just not responding.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bmacleod
Posted 2007-12-27 16:58:20 and read 6112 times.

NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777. I know their financial situation probably prevented them from selecting the more expensive 777 but considering most of Skyteam including CO and DL selected the 777, NW seems to stick out from the rest along with every U.S. major carrier (AA CO UA DL) except US Airways.  Sad

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2007-12-27 17:06:39 and read 6081 times.



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16):
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777.

They didn't need the 777. It is too much of an airplane for the DTW and MSP to Europe runs that are the bread and butter of NWA's 330s. For the price, the 330 was the best option at the time and continues to be to this day.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Jetblueguy22
Posted 2007-12-27 17:08:33 and read 6075 times.

What is all this talk of a merger? I know everyone thinks "oh its going to happen" but there really hasn't been much indication from the airline that a merger is even in the works. MOst likely it won't happen anytime soon. Thats my 2 cents.
Blue

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-12-27 17:11:47 and read 6062 times.



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16):
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777.

Huh? The 330's are perfect fits for NWA. Both DL and CO have 767s and 777s. NWA has 747s for their upper end needs rather than 777s. If NWA bought 777s they would have had nothing in between their 757s and a 777. NWA didn't and doesn't need a 777 fleet.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PhilSquares
Posted 2007-12-27 17:45:11 and read 5969 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I don't know about that since the union is now deducting huge fees from the pilots for merger research.

Huge fees!!! I don't think I'd call $250 a huge fee!

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 12):
ALPA just wants more money.

Care to elaborate on your statement? The merger fees are held locally and are spent locally.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: EvilForce
Posted 2007-12-27 17:50:04 and read 5952 times.



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 20):
The merger fees are held locally and are spent locally.

May I ask how those fees can be "spent locally"? Haven't they hired merger experts / resources to advise them on various merger scenarios? Just curious on how that works.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2007-12-27 17:55:42 and read 5942 times.



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 20):
Care to elaborate on your statement? The merger fees are held locally and are spent locally.

Oh, excuse me. NWALPA wants more money.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2007-12-27 17:58:16 and read 5920 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 22):
Oh, excuse me. NWALPA wants more money.

o wow hahahahahaha welcome to my RU list that was pretty funny

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: SNCntry32
Posted 2007-12-27 19:17:42 and read 5815 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
(finally getting the CRJ off of BOS-MEM)

Amen... I know in MEM 9E basically is the backbone of NW flying, but some routes need something closer to a real plane out of MEM.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
(IMHO - depending on the cost of fuel, how the Pinnacle pilot contract negotiations escalate, and short term traffic projections 1-2 dozen could be parked/lease terminations sometime in '08-'09)

I could see this hapening, I dont want it too, for my own sake, but I could see it happening. I hope the pilots can work something out soon. Not good for the NW or the DL bussiness.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
Hence the posturing and positioning and speculation about E-190/195s vs. C-Series.

IMHO, Compass will be sold off for a DC-9 replacement and NW will chose the C series, they already ordered the CR2 and the CR9, I think Bombardier would give them a good deal to be the launch customer. CP can be someone else's problem.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 13):
I have frequently flown from MSP to RST to visit my sister and the equipment alternates between DC9, SF34 and CR2/CR9. That is to say, this route is flown both by Mesaba and Northwest mainline. I have always wondered why NW doesn't simply let Northwest Airlink run this route considering it is only about 80 miles in length.

I dont think they send the CR9 down to RST. Its usually a CR2, SF3 and a DC9.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: NwAflyer07
Posted 2007-12-27 19:20:21 and read 5808 times.



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 7):
Any link available for this by chance?

No link, thats why i said "proposed announcement." It's just what one of my dad's friends (a fellow manager at nw) told him. I remember hearing that DL/NW were gonna make an announcement this month but, of course, it hasnt happened yet so dont take it too seriously.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: XPJets
Posted 2007-12-27 19:48:23 and read 6164 times.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 13):
I have frequently flown from MSP to RST to visit my sister and the equipment alternates between DC9, SF34 and CR2/CR9. That is to say, this route is flown both by Mesaba and Northwest mainline. I have always wondered why NW doesn't simply let Northwest Airlink run this route considering it is only about 80 miles in length.

The reason for this that I've always been given (and this is pure hearsay from the NW asst. station manager that stuck around after the XJ takeover) is that NW and the Mayo Clinic in RST have somewhat of a symbolic relationship (the Clinic sponsors the KidCares program among other things). Thus, mainly to encourage the use of RST by physicians, etc. who would otherwise just drive up to MSP like everyone else, NW keeps at least one daily mainline DC-9 flight in/out. Right now, RST RONs 2 -9s (a -30 and a -40 most nights, up from the SF3 + D95 that it used to be). IMO, 210 seats in/out of here at those hours are ridiculously overkill, and I suspect that once the CR9 becomes more widespread, we'll probably RON one of those instead.

[Edited 2007-12-27 19:50:09]

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PhilSquares
Posted 2007-12-27 19:51:04 and read 6154 times.



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 21):
May I ask how those fees can be "spent locally"? Haven't they hired merger experts / resources to advise them on various merger scenarios? Just curious on how that works

The NWAMEC will hire a law firm that specialises in labor law to advise/represent them in case of a merger. The MEC has control of the funds and decides which law firm will represent them. If needed other economic specialists would be retained by the MEC.

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 22):
Oh, excuse me. NWALPA wants more money.

So, how many mergers have you been through? Apparently you're an expert at that, perhaps you'd like to share your expertise?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2007-12-27 19:57:45 and read 6147 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 12):
ALPA just wants more money. It is run by senior 744 and 330 pilots who won't even know the difference between having Delta or NWA painted on the side of their airplane if a merger happens anyway.

Thats why the recent president of ALPA was a NW 752 guy?

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16):
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777. I know their financial situation probably prevented them from selecting the more expensive 777 but considering most of Skyteam including CO and DL selected the 777, NW seems to stick out from the rest along with every U.S. major carrier (AA CO UA DL) except US Airways.

The 777 was too big and too heavy for routes to Europe, thus is why they did not order the 777.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 20):
Huge fees!!! I don't think I'd call $250 a huge fee!

I was told it was $500, and yeah... for each pilot that adds up, $500 is $500.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PhilSquares
Posted 2007-12-27 20:19:14 and read 6094 times.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 28):
I was told it was $500, and yeah... for each pilot that adds up, $500 is $500.

Well, if you want concrete proof, please read this link. click here

But don't take my word.

What do you suggest for an alternative? Do nothing and just sit back and be stapled like the TWA/AA? Remember national dues CAN NOT be used for merger related activities.

[Edited 2007-12-27 20:21:44]

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Eghansen
Posted 2007-12-27 20:26:07 and read 6056 times.



Quoting XPJets (Reply 26):
IMO, 210 seats in/out of here at those hours are ridiculously overkill

The DC9 leaving early in the morning is usually quite empty.

My point was that the DC9's usually fly routes like MSP-RST, MSP-CID or MSP-DLH that in many other airlines would be serviced by the commuter subsidiary for the size of the community. It would seem like Northwest, which does not have large amounts of money to purchase new aircraft, could replace some of the DC9 flights with Mesaba/Pinnicle service, much as United is doing with their short-haul mainline service.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2007-12-27 20:31:37 and read 6048 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 17):
For the price, the 330 was the best option at the time and continues to be to this day.

And she just looks sooo nice in ALL that silver!

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Jetjack74
Posted 2007-12-28 00:41:26 and read 4865 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
and all 5600 series are supposed to get winglets at some point in time.

Actually, the only 757's which are slated to get winglets are the ones we plan to operate on TATL flights, which covers ships 5635-5649. Ships 5650--5657 are not ETOPs capable nor can they be modified, like the 5500 fleet. Furthermore, money that was being set aside for to refurbish the domestic 757 fleet was cancelled because of the higher oil prices. The big question at this juncture is whether or not the 747-400 fleet will be updated with the VOD system

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 28):
The 777 was too big and too heavy for routes to Europe, thus is why they did not order the 777.

Well, that's the excuse that mgmt gives for going with the 330. It wasn't too heavy for CO, UA, DL, or AA, but it was for us. NW was too cheap to buy the 777. Airbus gave the A330 to us with ultra-flexible financing and basically a deal too good to pass up. When we ordered the A330 in 2001, anything was an improvement over the DC10.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: WesternA318
Posted 2007-12-28 00:48:56 and read 4836 times.



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
When we ordered the A330 in 2001, anything was an improvement over the DC10.

And you didnt want to lose that non-refundable deposit from the A330 order way back when, right?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2007-12-28 05:03:36 and read 4703 times.



Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 24):
IMHO, Compass will be sold off for a DC-9 replacement and NW will chose the C series

What would selling Compass have to do with a DC-9 replacement?

Quoting NwAflyer07 (Reply 25):
No link, thats why i said "proposed announcement." It's just what one of my dad's friends (a fellow manager at nw) told him. I remember hearing that DL/NW were gonna make an announcement this month but, of course, it hasnt happened yet so dont take it too seriously.

The hundreds of NWA managers I am acquainted with know nothing of any announcement!! Same story at Delta!! What is a "proposed" announcement?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: NWAESC
Posted 2007-12-28 05:04:36 and read 4698 times.



Quoting CAP2008 (Reply 11):
Does anyone have an idea how much longer the 742 freighters will be around?

(I'm hoping that NW replaces its 742F's with pax 744's/744F's, and orders the 748i   )

Here's a link to an article regarding NWA's Air Cargo/Freighter plans...

http://www.aircargoworld.com/regions/northam_0108.htm

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 30):
It would seem like Northwest, which does not have large amounts of money to purchase new aircraft, could replace some of the DC9 flights with Mesaba/Pinnicle service, much as United is doing with their short-haul mainline service.

They have. A lot.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PSU.DTW.SCE
Posted 2007-12-28 06:57:10 and read 4542 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 12):
From what I have seen, they are leaning towards converted 744s and I think they would like to get rid of the 742s as soon as they can replace them efficiently. Of course, the loss of the DHL contract clouds the future of NWA Cargo somewhat.

As others have mentioned, the future fleet needs for NWA Cargo will be dependent upon future business once the DHL contract ends. Any 744 freighter conversion is still at least 3-5 years out, until the 787 is delivered and NW may or may not adjust capacity to Asia.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16):
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777. I know their financial situation probably prevented them from selecting the more expensive 777 but considering most of Skyteam including CO and DL selected the 777, NW seems to stick out from the rest along with every U.S. major carrier (AA CO UA DL) except US Airways.



Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
Well, that's the excuse that mgmt gives for going with the 330. It wasn't too heavy for CO, UA, DL, or AA, but it was for us. NW was too cheap to buy the 777. Airbus gave the A330 to us with ultra-flexible financing and basically a deal too good to pass up. When we ordered the A330 in 2001, anything was an improvement over the DC10.

Remember that NW was a very loyal Airbus & Boeing customer. AA (ex. A300), DL, & CO have all been very loyal to Boeing. NW strongly considered the 777. At the time, NW was looking at purely a Trans-Atlantic DC-10 replacement. They weren't initially intended across the Pacific. Also the A330 have NW flexibility to convert between the -200/-300 which with NW's 2-class configuration was more appropriate than the larger 777.

Additionally, as others have said there was a continually deffered order for A330's & A340's from the early 90's that was still on the books.

Quoting SNCntry32 (Reply 24):
IMHO, Compass will be sold off for a DC-9 replacement and NW will chose the C series, they already ordered the CR2 and the CR9, I think Bombardier would give them a good deal to be the launch customer. CP can be someone else's problem.

Compass owns nothing. Yeah you could sell it off, and I guess I wouldn't be surprised considering the amount of stupid money thrown around in this industry.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 30):
It would seem like Northwest, which does not have large amounts of money to purchase new aircraft, could replace some of the DC9 flights with Mesaba/Pinnicle service, much as United is doing with their short-haul mainline service.

NW is investing a ton of money in fleet renewal. Remember that Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Compass do not own or lease any of their aircraft. NW is the owner or primary leaseholder on all of these aircraft. It is not a matter of capital investment. Operating costs are another matter.

Despite the constant myth on A.net, NW has taken delivery of a ton of new aircraft in this decade.....
CRJ-200's, CRJ-900's, EMB-175's, A319's, A320's, 753's, the entire A330 fleet, two 744's, and an order for 787's. Unlike the others NW took delivery of their new aircraft commitments throughout the industry downturn.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 34):
What is a "proposed" announcement?

I always love these "Big announcments". Anyone remember the JetBlue "Big Announcement" back in Sept that turned out to be a total dud?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Jetblueguy22
Posted 2007-12-28 07:14:59 and read 4509 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):
Anyone remember the JetBlue "Big Announcement"

Yeah another dud. Just like the NW/DL one. It most likely isn't going to happen anytime soon. At least within the next year.
Blue

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2007-12-28 08:08:58 and read 4434 times.



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 29):
Well, if you want concrete proof, please read this link. click here

I guess where I got $500, other then right out of the word of the NW pilot I live with is that its a $250 + the 0.5% of earnings.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 29):
What do you suggest for an alternative?

I wasn't saying that it shouldn't be done, im just saying money is money, and that no matter the amount its still effects your income.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: United_Fan
Posted 2007-12-28 08:37:08 and read 4351 times.

Any idea when they'll send the CR9's to ROC? I also noticed N507XJ (RJ85) was ferried MZJ-Europe this week.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: KingAir200
Posted 2007-12-28 09:32:05 and read 4280 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 28):
Thats why the recent president of ALPA was a NW 752 guy?

As of April 2008, he is a captain on the 400 in DTW with a seniority number under 1000. He's been around a while and probably had himself a lot of the NWA Kool-Aid. I don't remember though, was he on the 757 while he was president? And was he based in MSP? Some of those MSP guys live in a deluded world.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 27):
So, how many mergers have you been through? Apparently you're an expert at that, perhaps you'd like to share your expertise?

I'm not going to lie to you, none. But would this money for the merger committee really make a difference? Yeah I know the TWA-AA deal stunk to high heaven for the TWA employees and I really don't know the full background on that. Maybe it had something to do with going from ALPA to the APA as was the case for the TWA pilots. But unless NWA gets bought by AA in this hypothetical merger crazed world, it'll be ALPA to ALPA. Why would they need extra money to figure that out?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: SM92
Posted 2007-12-28 10:20:22 and read 4151 times.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 35):

Here is another interesting article in regard to the NWA Cargo fleet. Interesting that it is the only US airline left with a dedicated cargo fleet.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...s-of-freight-cargo-poses-problems/

Looks like the loss of NWA cargo would hurt some businesses like 1-800-flowers. Even with FedEx, the flights are not frequent enough.

But with the loss of DHL, doesn't it put a lot of uncertainty in the need for NWA to have a cargo fleet? Much less, 747-400s cargo conversions or even 747-8Fs?

[Edited 2007-12-28 10:21:27]

[Edited 2007-12-28 10:23:24]

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: BrianDromey
Posted 2007-12-28 10:33:07 and read 4109 times.



Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 16):
NWA really missed out selecting the A330 over the 777. I know their financial situation probably prevented them from selecting the more expensive 777 but considering most of Skyteam including CO and DL selected the 777,

Elaborate please. For TA runs, nothing, but nothing beats the 333 for CASM, and the A332 ain't too far behind either. The 777 and 330 have different markets, with the 772 being significantly larger. Im not sure what the alliance partners have to do with it, especially as they choose the 764 for this size of widebody, mainly for domestic runs. Now they are using them on longer intl runs, and not the mission they were initially intended for. Indeed NO carrier has ever ordered the 764 with the intention of using it over the atlantic or pacific for intl ops, as the A330 has been by the majority of its customers.

Im sure NW is more than happy with their 330 fleet, the worlds largest, from the flights Ive been on NWA crews are very proud of the birds, and love working the A330.

Back to topic; I think the 744 fleet will be around for quite a while, but the 77W, A380 and 748i would be contenders.
The 787 will be used over the pacific almost exclusively, and the 330 fleet will be over the atlantic and some Hawai'i routes.
I think the A320 fleet will be kept for years yet, as will the 753s.
752 replacement is more interesting, I guess it will depend on what Boeing and/or Airbus offer as a suitable 752 replacement.
DC-9 will be replaced with E-Jets, CRJ and some mainline A319 capacity.

Brian.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2007-12-28 11:52:06 and read 3995 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 40):
Maybe it had something to do with going from ALPA to the APA as was the case for the TWA pilots. But unless NWA gets bought by AA in this hypothetical merger crazed world, it'll be ALPA to ALPA. Why would they need extra money to figure that out?

Look how well the HP/US merger is working out with both groups ALPA. I don't care how much money they collect the various airline ALPA's will never agree on a formula to merge seniority lists if it negatively affects even one of their members.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Skyexramper
Posted 2007-12-28 12:19:23 and read 3987 times.

NWA will replace 25 DC-9s with the leased YX 717s and then replace the rest with CRJ-900s. Big grin

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2007-12-28 13:34:15 and read 3851 times.



Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 44):
NWA will replace 25 DC-9s with the leased YX 717s and then replace the rest with CRJ-900s

The chances of that happening are zilch.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: HOOB747
Posted 2007-12-28 14:53:08 and read 3768 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
The future of the 744 is somewhat uncertain in NW's fleet, depending on the 787. The 18 787's currently on order will primarily be used to launch new routes, but depending on the amount that "overflies" NRT the role of the 744 may be diminished. It has been mentioned a some portion, or eventually all of the 744 fleet could be converted to all cargo to replace the 742F's. Additionally there are 50 options for more 787 in the future

Exceptional post! I would agree Northwest would be wise to convert as many 744s into freighters as their condition dictates. Of those ultra-long haul Asian routes now supplied by the workhorse 744, will the 787 eventually replace them, and if so, how does Northwest deal with the cut in passenger loads between the 744 and 787? From what I've seen, people living in the Mideast rely heavily on Northwest to get to Asia. They have to hold on to that premium passenger base.

I also agree the 744s will fly passengers for some time to come. I think Northwest would be smart to buy (10 or 12) 748i. Not only to maintain capacity, but to secure its place as a major international carrier with the 787 and 748i as its twin, state-of-the-art flagships.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2007-12-28 15:02:11 and read 3747 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
It has been mentioned a some portion, or eventually all of the 744 fleet could be converted to all cargo to replace the 742F's.

And they will fly for whom, given that NW is losing its biggest cargo customer, DHL, shortly?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2007-12-28 17:47:30 and read 3582 times.



Quoting ExpressJet_ERJ (Thread starter):
The future of the 744 is somewhat uncertain in NW's fleet, depending on the 787. The 18 787's currently on order will primarily be used to launch new routes, but depending on the amount that "overflies" NRT the role of the 744 may be diminshed. It has been mentioned a some portion, or eventually all of the 744 fleet could be converted to all cargo to replace the 742F's. Additionally there are 50 options for more 787 in the future.

So what are they going to do for large-capacity long-range aircraft?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: PhilSquares
Posted 2007-12-28 18:01:26 and read 3568 times.



Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 40):
But unless NWA gets bought by AA in this hypothetical merger crazed world, it'll be ALPA to ALPA. Why would they need extra money to figure that out?

I suggest you go through one ALPA-ALPA merger with no representation then come back and tell me what you think of a merger assessment. Since any merger will go before an arbitrator, each side need representation.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Tornado82
Posted 2007-12-28 18:10:24 and read 3537 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
CRJ-200 (50 pax) - 141 124 operated by Pinnacle, 17 operated by Mesaba (2 were delivered new to Mesaba, 15 are coming over from Pinnacle in early '08)

How many of these are actual 50 seaters, versus the CRJ-440's?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Azjubilee
Posted 2007-12-28 20:13:39 and read 3474 times.

THere are no more 44 seat CRJs... all have been converted to 50 seats, if they were previously 44 seaters.



AZJ

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Tornado82
Posted 2007-12-28 20:17:48 and read 3469 times.



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 51):
THere are no more 44 seat CRJs... all have been converted to 50 seats, if they were previously 44 seaters.



AZJ

Ah, thanks, shows how long since I last flew NWA, lol.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DTWAGENT
Posted 2007-12-28 22:04:54 and read 3375 times.

NWA is all right with the A330's. They fit right in with KLM and AF. These are also Skyteam members. As far as the merger goes. I think that is a done deal. Delta has said it is not intrested in merging with anyone right now. If they did go witht the B737-800's How soon could the get them? The last I heard from talking to a few employees is that the E-190/195/170/175's are all beeing looked at as a replacement for the DC-9"s. But, they plan on having them around for a long time yet. So we will see what they say in a few months.

Chuck

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: SkyexRamper
Posted 2007-12-28 22:05:04 and read 3369 times.



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 47):
And they will fly for whom, given that NW is losing its biggest cargo customer, DHL, shortly?

Try to secure long term DOD contracts.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: HOOB747
Posted 2007-12-29 13:57:51 and read 3090 times.



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 48):
So what are they going to do for large-capacity long-range aircraft?

My question too. Can anyone provide the range of the 787 series compared to the 747-8i?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: SNCntry32
Posted 2007-12-29 14:16:44 and read 3059 times.



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):
Compass owns nothing. Yeah you could sell it off, and I guess I wouldn't be surprised considering the amount of stupid money thrown around in this industry.

They dont, but whats to stop NW form selling off the E Jets and Compass?

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 51):
THere are no more 44 seat CRJs

Correct. Althought, sometimes I wonder if a flew are still floating around, or if one is being used as a spare down in MEM. AZJ, is XJ getting the NXXXXAY registered CRJ's?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Wjcandee
Posted 2007-12-29 14:44:46 and read 3003 times.



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 54):
Try to secure long term DOD contracts.

That's an interesting idea, but here's the problem.

DOD has no such thing; their airlift awards have been for decades made a year at a time. The vast majority of it is also irregular, with real peaks and valleys not suited to high-capital-cost airframes, which is why Evergreen flies what it flies. (There are some exceptions in the form of specific international cargo routes, but they are very, very limited and far from daily.) It's also not likely to be profitable at what NW pays its flight crews, because the reimbursement rate is based upon what it costs ALL carriers flying a particular aircraft type. If you're a carrier with high fixed costs and high crew costs (i.e. if you're above the average of all carriers), then the work isn't profitable on a long-term basis. At the margin, it may be, but not as a regular deal.

Also, the DOD has organic cargo lift, so its need for outside lift is not as great as its need for passenger lift, of which it has essentially no organic capability (which is as it should be). It is true that several of the significant cargo carriers have seen what is to them a boatload of DOD cargo charter business in the past few months, but in total it still involves what is basically a handful of planes. And there are some particular into-theatre cargo requirements at the moment (such as lifting MRAPs into-theatre) that would normally go by sea, combined with the usual holiday-related into-theatre requirements. So it's not reasonable to expect the need for supplementary lift to continue at this tempo.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: DocLightning
Posted 2007-12-30 00:27:51 and read 2762 times.



Quoting HOOB747 (Reply 55):

My question too. Can anyone provide the range of the 787 series compared to the 747-8i?

787 has longer range, per Boeing's website. But that's not the point. Few of NW's routes approach the limit of a 744. The point is that they 787 is not a large plane. What are they going to do for high-density, long-range routes?

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Admluvs2fly
Posted 2007-12-30 00:59:00 and read 2749 times.

*STOP THE PRESSES*

Expect an announcement Jan.7 . With reguards to NW/DELTA.

Thant's all I can say.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: RedTailDTW
Posted 2007-12-30 01:17:02 and read 2730 times.



Quoting Admluvs2fly (Reply 59):
*STOP THE PRESSES*

Expect an announcement Jan.7 . With reguards to NW/DELTA.

Oh really, who is the mystery source this week?


Reguardless, I would be devastated to see the Northwest name go away like that.


Mason

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2007-12-30 05:59:45 and read 2638 times.



Quoting Admluvs2fly (Reply 59):
*STOP THE PRESSES*

Expect an announcement Jan.7 . With reguards to NW/DELTA.

Thant's all I can say.

I would be willing to wager that is not true!!! Nothing will be announced Jan 7 regarding DL/NW.

Topic: RE: NWA Fleet Plan
Username: WA707atMSP
Posted 2007-12-31 08:52:16 and read 2255 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 61):
Quoting Admluvs2fly (Reply 59):
*STOP THE PRESSES*

Expect an announcement Jan.7 . With reguards to NW/DELTA.

Thant's all I can say.

I would be willing to wager that is not true!!! Nothing will be announced Jan 7 regarding DL/NW.

If NW and DL have a signed merger agreement, they will announce it within hours of its signing. They will not wait 1+ weeks until 7 Jan to announce it.

The US Securities & Exchange Commission requires companies to announce merger agreements, or any other developments that affect a company's stock price, very quickly, so people who know about the merger / other developments can't trade on the news before it is publicly announced.


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