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Topic: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-04 10:04:16 and read 10935 times.

SAS are saying that they will announce what kind of planes that will replace the Q400, and in the longer term replace the MD-80. A wild speculation here. Could it be possible for the C130 to replace the MD-80 and NextGen CRJ for the Q400? That way SAS will save the glory of the Bombardier, and probably get a very nice discount. SAS MD-80 takes about 141-145 passenger. The C130 takes 145 in high density seating.

Could the C130 be a better replacement for the MD-80 than a 737-700/737-800 or A319/A320?

http://bombardier.com/en/3_0/3_8/img/C130_3view.gif

[Edited 2008-01-04 10:08:05]

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries 130 Suitable Replacement For MD-80?
Username: DL767captain
Posted 2008-01-04 10:13:33 and read 10917 times.

It would make sense to use smaller more efficient planes like the C130 that were built for these types of routes. But if they want more range then they would probably go with a 737 variant.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-01-04 10:21:31 and read 10895 times.

MD80s are larger than the C-Series. MD80s are similar in capacity to the A320. Only the MD87 is smaller, and it's still a bit larger than the C130, but SAS only has 11(20) of those, so they would be downsizing the majority of their MD80 fleet with the C130. But maybe a mix of C130s and A320 or 73Gs would be suitable?

C110 is obviously smaller, more in the 717/DC9 size, which means C series may be a replacement for the NW DC9s. Finally a suitable replacement? And in two sizes no less.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-04 10:23:06 and read 10895 times.



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
It would make sense to use smaller more efficient planes like the C130 that were built for these types of routes. But if they want more range then they would probably go with a 737 variant.

It could make lots of sense. However, SAS needs a plane for European range, and the C130ER has 2700Nm range. I believe that would be sufficient for most of their network. And if SAS buys between 75 and 100 C-series. Who knows. Bombardier might launch a C150 to replace the 738 at one time...  cloudnine 

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-04 10:27:02 and read 10891 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
MD80s are larger than the C-Series. MD80s are similar in capacity to the A320.

True. But it seems like the C-series has a better utilization of space, than the MD-80. Not having rear mounted engines and a wider fuselage seems to address the fact that the C-series has a 7 meter shorter fuselage. It seems to match the payload of the MD-80, beats the range.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Drgmobile
Posted 2008-01-04 10:40:57 and read 10850 times.

A manufacturer may design a plane to replace an earlier model of its own, but in general, airlines aren't necessarily looking for exact size-to-size replacements when they are re-evaluating their fleets, particularly for short- and medium-haul. If they did, we wouldn't have regional jets. Airlines' fleet needs evolve.

When Air Canada started changing its fleet in the mid eighties, for example, it had the 727 and the DC-9. It replaced both types (eventually) with the A320 family, which included planes with a broader range of capacity. Post CCAA, with scope restrictions out the window, the company introduced a slew of regional jets at this regional and mainline affiliates in the 50-, 70s and 90s sizes and some of the Airbus narrowbodies have been returned to lessors.

There has been widespread talk of Northwest's DC-9s being the "only" major fleet replacement need for which the C-Series is suited. That's pure nonsense. NW could replace the planes with C-Series, or it could increase frequencies and introduce more nonstops with a mixture of 50-, 75, and/or 90-pax RJs. Similarly, the C-Series could be ideal for the fleets of many carriers that don't currently have any aircraft in that size.

In the same way that some companies used 50-seat RJs to cut down their fleets of mainline narrowbodies by increasing frequencies and bypassing some hubs, the C-Series could be used to do the same thing for a carrier currently operating 737s or A320s today.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-01-04 10:50:44 and read 10815 times.



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
True. But it seems like the C-series has a better utilization of space, than the MD-80. Not having rear mounted engines and a wider fuselage seems to address the fact that the C-series has a 7 meter shorter fuselage. It seems to match the payload of the MD-80, beats the range.

But you'd leave 20 pax behind. That's not always the best option on these type of routes, where you are balancing frequency with CASM, and capacity at different times of day. While a route might average 125 seats per flight in a day, it doesn't mean you can replace the mix of Q400 and MD80 flights on a route with an "average" capacity CSeries and make it work.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Bmacleod
Posted 2008-01-04 10:54:38 and read 10803 times.

The 737 and A320 are considered better replacements according to size.

The C-Series would be targeted to NW's DC-9s and airlines still flying 737-200s.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 5):
When Air Canada started changing its fleet in the mid eighties, for example, it had the 727 and the DC-9. It replaced both types (eventually) with the A320 family, which included planes with a broader range of capacity.

I remember the MD-88 made the short list for AC's 727 replacement. Though it just wouldn't look right in AC colors...

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Drgmobile
Posted 2008-01-04 11:03:17 and read 10777 times.

The 737 and A320 are considered better replacements according to size.

The C-Series would be targeted to NW's DC-9s and airlines still flying 737-200s.


Airlines don't make fleet decisions based on aircraft size. They make decisions based on the structure of their network and which aircraft will fit into their network in the right way to maximize overall profitability.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-04 11:22:41 and read 10738 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
But you'd leave 20 pax behind. That's not always the best option on these type of routes, where you are balancing frequency with CASM, and capacity at different times of day.

Very true. But does anybody know what the seat pitch is when the C130 has 145 passengers, compared to when SAS puts 145 passengers in their MD-80 airplanes? With wider seats that are not as low as on the MD-80 and a narrower pitch it might just be that the passenger wouldn't feel more cramped than in an MD-80.

Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 5):

You bring up some interesting points Drgmobile. When reading your reply, I believe it really could be a good MD-80 replacement.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
While a route might average 125 seats per flight in a day, it doesn't mean you can replace the mix of Q400 and MD80 flights on a route with an "average" capacity CSeries and make it work.

I believe SAS will order some RJ for short term replacement of the Q400 and started thinking about the C-series as a replacement for the MD-80. Buying all planes from Bombardier would be a brave move by SAS, and I am pretty sure they would get a good price. That is if SAS dares to launch a new Bombardier product.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Nycbjr
Posted 2008-01-04 12:11:25 and read 10682 times.

any one else think the C-130 is a dumb name? lol I keep thinking lockheed is finally producing a civilian version  Silly

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-04 12:20:06 and read 10662 times.



Quoting Nycbjr (Reply 10):
any one else think the C-130 is a dumb name? lol I keep thinking lockheed is finally producing a civilian version

That must be one of the reasons why they keep on writing about the C130 rather than C-130.  Smile Not that anyone would notice. By the way does the C stand for Canadair or Commercial?

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Bravo1Six
Posted 2008-01-04 12:25:40 and read 10645 times.



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 11):
That must be one of the reasons why they keep on writing about the C130 rather than C-130. Not that anyone would notice. By the way does the C stand for Canadair or Commercial?

Commercial.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Planemaker
Posted 2008-01-04 12:44:29 and read 10603 times.



Quoting Bravo1Six (Reply 12):
Commercial.

While it may seem so, it is not...

"Bombardier Aerospace announced today the name of its new commercial aircraft family and revealed the aircraft’s distinctive black and white livery.

The CSeries, for Competitive, Continental, Connector, would target airlines operating aircraft in the lower end of the 100- to 150-passenger market, a large segment that is not well served by any aircraft in production today. Many air carriers in that category currently rely on aging DC9, Fokker 100, Boeing 737 Classic, BAe-146, MD80 and other aircraft that are scheduled to retire by the end of the decade, leaving the field open for innovative replacements."

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Bravo1Six
Posted 2008-01-04 13:06:52 and read 10563 times.

Well, ya learn something new every day, including stuff that I should have known to begin with  Smile

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Nycbjr
Posted 2008-01-04 13:15:51 and read 10546 times.



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
The CSeries, for Competitive, Continental, Connector,

thats even more dumb hehehe.. I wish them luck.. I still don't see A or B abandoning the lower than 150 seat market entirely

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: CRJ900
Posted 2008-01-04 13:22:40 and read 10526 times.

SAS is stuffing lots of seats into their aircraft these days, the A321 has 198 seats, the A319 has 141 seats, the newly delivered B73G has 141 seats, the B734 has 162 seats, the new B738 has 180-189 seats... just like LCCs.

And why not... SAS flies lots of LCC routes and charter flights with low yields, so a 145-seat C130 would probably be more comfy than their current aircraft.

I think a 145-seat C130 will have 30 inch pitch, as the 130-seat C130 has 32 inch pitch. Not too shabby...

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-05 09:47:09 and read 10376 times.



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
The CSeries, for Competitive, Continental, Connector, would target airlines operating aircraft in the lower end of the 100- to 150-passenger market, a large segment that is not well served by any aircraft in production today. Many air carriers in that category currently rely on aging DC9, Fokker 100, Boeing 737 Classic, BAe-146, MD80 and other aircraft that are scheduled to retire by the end of the decade, leaving the field open for innovative replacements."

Hey. Thank you for providing an answer. It says here that Bombardier sees the C-series as a replacement for the MD-80.

Quoting Nycbjr (Reply 15):
thats even more dumb hehe he.. I wish them luck.. I still don't see A or B abandoning the lower than 150 seat market entirely

I think this is a clever move on Bombardiers part. With the current backlog of 737NG and A320 Boeing and Airbus do not seems to be hasty for replacements just yet. And they are now talking about 2015 to 2017 before a new replacement. This means Bombardier has time to get some traction for the C-series. And I will not be surprised if we see a C150 and C170 in the future.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 16):
I think a 145-seat C130 will have 30 inch pitch, as the 130-seat C130 has 32 inch pitch. Not too shabby...

I bet you are right. Since the C-series has wider seats it will feel better for the passenger than the current 737NG and A320 offer. Of course some airlines might put in six abreast to get a really low CASM.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-01-05 10:04:53 and read 10366 times.



Quoting Drgmobile (Reply 8):
Airlines don't make fleet decisions based on aircraft size.

sure they do. it's a major factor. not the only factor, but a major one. It's one reason Boeing bumped the 737-800 size to larger than the 737-400, because the 737-800 capacity was a direct replacement for the 727 capacity and replaced many 727s around the world, where the 737-400 was a direct size competitor to the MD80 series (excpet the 87).

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 16):
so a 145-seat C130 would probably be more comfy than their current aircraft.

no way. 141 seats in a 73G is not nearly as cramped as 144 seats in a C130.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 17):
Thank you for providing an answer. It says here that Bombardier sees the C-series as a replacement for the MD-80.

That doesn't make it so. Boeing said the 736 would be a good replacement for existing 100 seat aircraft of the time. But it wasn't a very good replacement for anything.  Wink

For example, AA will not be replacing their fleet of MD80s with C130s any time soon.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-05 11:58:55 and read 10311 times.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):

no way. 141 seats in a 73G is not nearly as cramped as 144 seats in a C130.

But the seats will be wider in the Cseries. If you put in taller seats, it may not feel as cramped.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
That doesn't make it so. Boeing said the 736 would be a good replacement for existing 100 seat aircraft of the time. But it wasn't a very good replacement for anything.

But the 736 was a much heavier plane than the plane it replaced. Whereas the Cseries will be a much lighter plane. And isn't the C110 actually built like a B736 competitor and the C130 a B73G competitor? If you look at the floor plans it may suggest that the floor area is as large on the Cseries as on the 736/73G. I know that it offers only 5 abreast seating, but it is almost as wide as the 737NG.

These floor plans suggest that the Cseries does in fact mach the seating capacity of the 736/73G. If you look at the C110 mixed seating is 100 compared to 102 in 736 mixed seating. The C130 mixed seating is 119 seats compared to 126 in the 73G. And as you can see with in this seating config business class on the Cseries counts twice as many seats as on the Boeing 737. I believe the MD-80 is closer in size to the 73G than the 738.

C110


C130


B736/737/738/739

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Columba
Posted 2008-01-06 04:25:12 and read 10229 times.

The series will be a good replacement for older MD 80 and 737 classics. SAS just said they want to replace their older aircraft and I can see the CSeries being evaluated as a MD 80 replacement.
I also can see it as a 737-300/-500 replacement with LH. LH is one of the most important customers of Bombardier and the 737 needs to be replaced soon (sadly). The EJets will replace the Avros/Bae with Cityline, Eurowings etc and I can see the CSeries being the smallest mainline aircraft.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: CEO@AFG
Posted 2008-01-06 06:05:38 and read 10186 times.

I seriously doubt SK will get the C series as a launch customer. After the Dash 8Q400 debacle, they have a stated goal of NEVER being the launch customer of any aircraft.

Being the launch customer of another Bombardier product, seems even more unlikely!

If the aircraft is launched, I'm sure SK will look at it.

For the coming announcement later in January on SK's fleet strategy, Expect new orders of 737NGs for Norway and Sweden and A32Xs for Denmark. I'm also quite confident SK will get CRJ-700/900/1000 next gen to replace most of the Q400s.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: RayChuang
Posted 2008-01-06 06:36:16 and read 10146 times.

I still think SAS will buy more 737-700/800's and more A319/A320 models to replace the aging MD-80 series fleet. They might seriously look at buying the ATR-72 if ATR is willing to develop a new version designed for cold weather operations.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-01-06 06:46:04 and read 10131 times.



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 22):
I still think SAS will buy more 737-700/800's and more A319/A320 models to replace the aging MD-80 series fleet.

I agree, at least for the majority of the planes.

MD80s are just larger than people realize or are willing to admit for this thread for whatever reason. They are larger than 733/73Gs. The 734 was designed as a direct competitor, and the A320 as a competitor/replacement, and the C130 is not as big as a 734 or A320 no matter how you slice it.

Now, could it suit A319 carriers that don't fly over 1500nm or carriers like CO with a large fleet of 733 and 735? Possibly, if they want a new/added type in their fleet...

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Fanfan
Posted 2008-01-06 07:13:25 and read 10106 times.

My complimnts to all - this is an excellent discussion.

Perhaps, 2008 is the year for Bombardier to get serious at alst about the CSeries? The point about A & B backlogs particularly ring a bell. Even Embraer is sitting on a pile of orders. Where does the demand go?

Demand is for fuel efficient planes ASAP. Nobody wants to wait much after 2010 - their business could be dead by then.

So....if Bombardier hustles this year it could make some progress. For example the CSeries is the GTF launch customer. That brings down its fuel burn way below anything in its class. A crucial issues these days.

All the stars are aligned here - if only the Canadians DO something - like make a decision.

As has been pointed out numerous times on this excellent thread, there are a lot of planes the CSeries can replace.

If Bombardier misses this year, I would guess the CSeries never makes it - as postulated by Richard Aboulafia, who feels the plane will never be built.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: PavlovsDog
Posted 2008-01-06 08:45:39 and read 10053 times.



Quoting Fanfan (Reply 24):
So....if Bombardier hustles this year it could make some progress. For example the CSeries is the GTF launch customer. That brings down its fuel burn way below anything in its class. A crucial issues these days.

I thought the Mitsubishi regional Jet was the launch customer for the GTF.

It sounds like Sukhoi will probably go ahead with the SuperJet 110 which will be the same size as the C-110 so Bombardier may get yet another competitor in the segment for long if they should do something so radical as to launch the project.

Personally I think they should have chosen a 3 member family and sized them at 95-115-135. I don't think much of the CRJ-900 and forthcoming CRJ-1000. They've really stretched the CRJ too far. The 1000 is actually longer than an Airbus 320!

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Oykie
Posted 2008-01-06 11:41:51 and read 10064 times.



Quoting Columba (Reply 20):
I also can see it as a 737-300/-500 replacement with LH. LH is one of the most important customers of Bombardier and the 737 needs to be replaced soon (sadly).

I believe you are right. In the start LH said the Cseries was to heavy, and not optimized for their route structure. But the latest redesign should have addressed this issue. However I wonder if it is to wide for LH. When Dornier designed the 728 LH demanded that it should not be wider than 3,28 meter. The argument behind this was that they feared a low cost carrier would put in six abreast seating. That could happen in the 3,4 meter wide Cseries. Although it would have been cramped.

Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 21):
I seriously doubt SK will get the C series as a launch customer. After the Dash 8Q400 debacle, they have a stated goal of NEVER being the launch customer of any aircraft.

I know it might be a long shot, but if they get an offer they cannot refuse?

Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 21):
For the coming announcement later in January on SK's fleet strategy, Expect new orders of 737NGs for Norway and Sweden and A32Xs for Denmark. I'm also quite confident SK will get CRJ-700/900/1000 next gen to replace most of the Q400s.

Are they gouing to announce it already in January. I thought it was later in first half of 2008.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
MD80s are just larger than people realize or are willing to admit for this thread for whatever reason. They are larger than 733/73Gs. The 734 was designed as a direct competitor, and the A320 as a competitor/replacement, and the C130 is not as big as a 734 or A320 no matter how you slice it.

I know the MD-80 are 7 meters longer than the Cseries. I am after all a DC-9/MD-80/MD-90 freak. (Hence my username being from a DC-9-21). The best airplane experiences I have had have been in one of these planes. But even tough the Cseries are a shorter plane, it is wider. 3,14 meter compared to the 3,4 meter in the Cseries. That means it have much wider seats. With wider and taller seats, you do not need the same pitch in order to make people comfortable. And the rear fuselage mounted engines on the MD-80 takes out some of the space inside the MD-80. With these considerations SAS might be better of with the Cseries as a replacement. The range of the 738 and A320 makes them less efficient on shorter routes that SAS uses them on in Europe.

Quoting Fanfan (Reply 24):
My compliments to all - this is an excellent discussion.

Thank you.  Smile I am really trying to make this forum see things from a different angle. Seeing things from a different angle is what moves the world forward. If no one was thinking outside the box we would still live in caves and throw rocks at each other  Wink

Quoting Fanfan (Reply 24):
If Bombardier misses this year, I would guess the CSeries never makes it - as postulated by Richard Aboulafia, who feels the plane will never be built.

I sure hopes that having an engine maker onboard helps getting a launch customer. If they do not get an order this year things are not looking good for Bombardier.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 25):
It sounds like Sukhoi will probably go ahead with the SuperJet 110 which will be the same size as the C-110 so Bombardier may get yet another competitor in the segment for long if they should do something so radical as to launch the project.

I am not sure how big success the Sukhoi will enjoy. Don't get me wrong. It is probably a good plane, but what airlines will order it?

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 25):
Personally I think they should have chosen a 3 member family and sized them at 95-115-135. I don't think much of the CRJ-900 and forthcoming CRJ-1000. They've really stretched the CRJ too far. The 1000 is actually longer than an Airbus 320!

I agree. The CRJ1000 is probably a stretch to far, but it could probably take some orders away from the E-jet being available sooner.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: CEO@AFG
Posted 2008-01-06 16:32:46 and read 9912 times.

My compliments to the thread starter, refreshing to have a topic without the usual mudslinging.  crossfingers 

Quoting Oykie (Reply 26):
Are they gouing to announce it already in January. I thought it was later in first half of 2008.

It's my understanding SAS will hold another board meeting on Januray 17th, where they will decide upon the fleet replacement (or at least announce it) and make a decision on the company structure with regards to STS and SGS (Scandinavian Technical Services and Scandinavian Ground Services, their Maintenance and Handling sister companies respectfully).

SK has made public already that a few options on the NG has been converted to orders and new NG's are coming in 2008 to both SK Norway and SK Sweden in small numbers.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Planemaker
Posted 2008-01-07 00:08:02 and read 9804 times.



Quoting Fanfan (Reply 24):
The point about A & B backlogs particularly ring a bell. Even Embraer is sitting on a pile of orders. Where does the demand go?

The orders could quickly evaporate with consolidation and/or a recession. I believe that is part of the reason why both A and B are putting off launching a narrowbody successor... the future is too volatile.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 25):
It sounds like Sukhoi will probably go ahead with the SuperJet 110 which will be the same size as the C-110 so Bombardier may get yet another competitor in the segment for long if they should do something so radical as to launch the project.

The Superjet in Russia and the ARJ in China will halt any CSeries sales in Russia and China.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-01-07 10:02:24 and read 9654 times.



Quoting Oykie (Reply 26):
I know the MD-80 are 7 meters longer than the Cseries

come on, man. I'm not talking about the length of the freaking plane. I'm talking about actual SEATING capacity, and the MD80 (ex 87) is a LARGER PLANE. It just is. Why are you arguing this point when it's not arguable? The MD80 is the size of the 734. The C130 is about the size of the 733. We are talking seating capacity. The 733 and 734 are not the same plane, they don't hold the same number of pax.

The 734 was a response by Boeing both to the high sales numbers of the MD80 and the threat from Airbus with the A320. If this increased capacity didn't matter to anyone (as some on this thread are trying to force feed us), Boeing wouldn't have built the 734 (nor the 735, for that matter) as the 733 would have been all things to all people. And they certainly wouldn't have built the 738, as the 73G would have been just fine.

But in the market, there is demand for planes in the MD-80-A320-738 range, and the C130 is just NOT a competitor in this size. It is a competitor in the next size DOWN, the 733-A319-(MD87) category, with the C110 being a competitor in the 735/6-A318-717/DC9 category. Those second two are large categories, and by spanning the two they offer a compelling product that is optimized for that size (unlike the heavy A318 and 736s which are squat versions of larger planes).

But major MD80 operators in the world are not going to replace them wholesale with the C130. At best, there might be a split fleet decision, where they decide to replace SOME with the smaller plane and then the rest with the A320Adv/797 or whatever they come up with.

Topic: RE: Is The Cseries Suitable Replacement For The MD-80?
Username: OyKIE
Posted 2008-01-07 15:53:22 and read 9519 times.



Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 27):
My compliments to the thread starter, refreshing to have a topic without the usual mudslinging.

Thanks  Smile

Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 27):
It's my understanding SAS will hold another board meeting on January 17th, where they will decide upon the fleet replacement (or at least announce it) and make a decision on the company structure with regards to STS and SGS (Scandinavian Technical Services and Scandinavian Ground Services, their Maintenance and Handling sister companies respectfully).

I was not aware of this. Will be interesting to see what they will announce. I will keep my eyes and ears open this day.

Quoting CEO@AFG (Reply 27):
SK has made public already that a few options on the NG has been converted to orders and new NG's are coming in 2008 to both SK Norway and SK Sweden in small numbers.

Going a bit of topic on my own thread. Does anybody know how many options SAS still have for the 737NG. I have tried to get an answer for this earlier, but was not able to get an answer. I know SAS got a huge discount in 1995 for ditching the MD-95 in favor of the 737-600.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
Why are you arguing this point when it's not arguable? The MD80 is the size of the 734. The C130 is about the size of the 733. We are talking seating capacity. The 733 and 734 are not the same plane, they don't hold the same number of pax.

I am not arguing the point that the MD-80 is larger. I know that. But it is not larger enough. There is a reason why Boeing enlarged the 737-800 and that the proposed 717-300 was a bit smaller than the MD-80. When the MD-80 first arrived in SAS it had 156 passenger in domestic use, and 133 passenger on international flights. SAS always used 4 flight attendants on the MD-80. Since all airlines are forced to utilize the crew to the maximum both the MD-80 and 737-400 was in a size that did not utilize their crew. SAS have dropped below 150 passenger allowing for 3 cabin attendants. The 737-400 has the same problem, and to some degree also the A320. They where made in a time where airlines could afford to have more flight-crews per passenger than was the minimum criteria for evacuation. However when the 737NG was made airlines wanted Boeing to stretch the 737-400X so that they got better utilization of the crew. With SAS and their low load factor about 70% maybe the C130 is a better replacement, than going for the larger 737-8

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
But major MD80 operators in the world are not going to replace them wholesale with the C130.

I agree with this. Some will either go for the a bit larger 737-800, and some for the smaller 73G, A319 or C130  Smile


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