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Topic: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-21 16:03:03 and read 25706 times.

Hey Guys,

This just on. Seems like YV1449, an ATR-42 from Santa Barbara Airlines on its flight from Merida to Caracas crashed due to bad weather in a place between Merida and Trujillo.

The aircraft hasn't been found but hasn't been confirmed that it's down either.

There hasn't been any contact with the pilots for a while, which makes me presume that they went down. Damn it, I hate this!

THIS IS THE MISSING AIRCRAFT:


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Guillermo De Armas



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Jose de Jesus



I'll keep you posted.

[Edited 2008-02-21 16:07:29]

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: A388
Posted 2008-02-21 16:18:44 and read 25681 times.

I hope it was not a crash and in all circumstances hope that all the passengers and crew have survived!

A388

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-21 16:21:48 and read 25647 times.

Bad news indeed, I hope everything is OK......thx for keeping us posted.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 16:22:19 and read 25668 times.

Up to know it is only said that it didn't arrive in CCS.
And I wanted to travel to MRD these days !!!

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-21 16:22:27 and read 25678 times.

It's been more than one hour since communication with the pilots occured. The aircraft seems to have deviated to El Vigia but no one can confirm whether the aircraft landed there and I repeat, it's been more than an hour and estimated route to complete MRD CCS is 1h25m.

Not looking good - bad weather and radar conditions in Venezuela...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Cybergus
Posted 2008-02-21 16:28:32 and read 25635 times.

Holy .....! First the LET410 about a month and now this. Communications and radar systems here in Venezuela are getting obsolete and inefficient. How more incidents do we have to see before the INAC do something about it!?. Hope that the story about a safe landing in El Vigia is true, if it's not is a real but real bad news.

Tavo

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 16:42:12 and read 25520 times.

It is said that there were 43 passengers onboard.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Philcre
Posted 2008-02-21 16:44:19 and read 25498 times.

thoughts and prayers......hopefully everyone is safe.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-21 16:44:32 and read 25509 times.



Quoting Chiguire (Reply 6):
It is said that there were 43 passengers onboard.

Yeah, full load.

No communications since 17.45 local time... not looking good at all. This is depressing, I just can't believe this kind of things happen. And I bet that the conditions of the aircraft weren't proper NOT to mention the surveillance conditions in Venezuela - radars, communications, etc.

I'm going to start hoping for survivors.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 16:45:45 and read 25480 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 4):
The aircraft seems to have deviated to El Vigia

They also report that the contact was lost about 1 1/2 hours after the aircraft left Merida. VIG is only a few minutes away. 1 1/2 hours would be veeery close to CCS - if those reports are correct.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Maracucho85
Posted 2008-02-21 16:54:29 and read 25424 times.

Just heard on the news... Sad, sad news.

Let's hope for the best though. These ATR aircraft are very reliable and should not fail often. There was very bad weather though...

Let's see what happens..

Best from Venezuela,

Alberto

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 17:00:45 and read 25383 times.

Correction: 43 passengers + 3 tripulation. Still no news. Looks bad.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: A388
Posted 2008-02-21 17:08:24 and read 25339 times.

It doesn't sound good, but I still hope for the best.

A388

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-21 17:22:42 and read 25233 times.

SVVG 212300Z 18010KT 9999 BKN040 XX/XX Q1010

weather seems good, so no weather issues there...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Victor009
Posted 2008-02-21 17:33:11 and read 25187 times.

Just on SKY news news here in UK as breaking news. Wreckage found yet or any clues???

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PilotNTrng
Posted 2008-02-21 17:37:03 and read 25156 times.

This is a horrible night, my thoughts and prayers with those on board and the families. God be with them.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 17:52:07 and read 25026 times.

So it seems that the contact was indeed lost some minutes after take off. VLV, VIG, BNS and BRM didin't have any contact with the aircraft.
SAR operations will start early tomorrow morning.
Now it is said that there were 42 passengers + 2 pilots + 2 cabin crew.

Whatever happened. This shows that aviation in Venezuela is not safe at all. There were quite a lot of incidents last year and it was only a matter of time that some accidents follow.
It is about time to review the whole aviation sector in order to improve safety. If we carry on like this me might find ourselves back in Cat II soon.

[Edited 2008-02-21 17:53:16]

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-21 18:18:41 and read 24857 times.

Guys it's been confirmed that the plane crashed near the Merida area, in a field where some people saw it fall...

Seems like everyone's deceased...

I've no words for this...

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=12205

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-21 18:35:49 and read 24676 times.

AFP reports the same. The area is at an altitude of about 4750 meters. SAR are heading to the area.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Avianca
Posted 2008-02-21 18:40:47 and read 24632 times.

sad news... was today at the airport were the outbound flight to Merida was called for boarding... very sad

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: DL763
Posted 2008-02-21 18:41:05 and read 24628 times.

The website dose not even have the information!!
Prayers go out to the family and friend's!  tombstone 
DL763  Big grin

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-21 18:50:13 and read 24529 times.



Quoting DL763 (Reply 20):
The website dose not even have the information!!

And they won't have it... that airline is in a pretty steep situation, especially after it was bought by this awful pro-chavez guy.... I just can't stand this situation anymore...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-21 18:57:59 and read 24453 times.

Terrible day since today a PC-7 from Fuerza Aerea Uruguaya crashed near Durazno killing 2 pilots....

Im wondering what could've brought down such a reliable and power full plane like an ATR........

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-21 18:58:33 and read 24459 times.

Some facts of the flight:

- It was scheduled for its departure at 16:50 (21:20 GMT), and arrival al 18:15 to CCS.

- There were 46 pax on board (43 pax + 3 crew). In the pax list there is a politician, his son and a journalist.

- The ceiling at the moment of the crash was 13.000 feet, and the doomed plane reported on the Observatory nearby Merida (a standard visual procedure). Then, contact was lost.

- None of the airports nearby (El Vigia, Valera, Barquisimeto, Barinas) received any distress call.

- The crew seemed to be qualified (It's been said that the pilot was a senior ATR Captain in Santa Barbara)

I will keep you informed if I have further news. My prayers with the relatives and friends of the passengers and crew.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: ZKSUJ
Posted 2008-02-21 19:40:36 and read 24140 times.

Sad news. Condolences to the families and friends of all on board

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Reality
Posted 2008-02-21 20:04:16 and read 23988 times.

ATR 42
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Type Regional Airliner
Manufacturer ATR
Maiden flight 16 August 1984
Introduced 1985
Status In revenue service
Variants ATR 72

The ATR 42 is a twin-turboprop, short-haul regional airliner built in France and Italy by ATR. The name "42" comes from the aircraft's seating, which varies from 40 to 50. The aircraft was the basis for the ATR 72.

The ATR 42 was announced in 1981, making its maiden flight on 16 August 1984; French and Italian certification followed in September 1985 and its first revenue flight was in December of the same year with Air Littoral of France.[1]

As of January 2007, 390 ATR 42s had been delivered worldwide, with another 11 aircraft on order.

The -320 was an improved version of the -300 powered by PW121 engines (2100 shp).

Santa Barbara Airlines--Five ATR 42s.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: LEARJETMIAMI
Posted 2008-02-21 21:08:27 and read 24980 times.

this accident is similar to the DC-9 of Aeropostal crash in Trujillo

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: LEARJETMIAMI
Posted 2008-02-21 21:13:35 and read 25042 times.

A continuación la lista de los pasajeros del avión YV1449:

1 GIL/GIOBELI 8.045.762
2 INFANTES/FRANCIS 8.418.649
3 LUONGO/ITALO 5.082.706
4 CIARLET/LINETTE 7.683.799
5 SCHEPIS/MARIA 10.330.009
6 ORTEGA/EDUARDO 4.047.136
7 ELAISAMI/NAURAS 17.894.599
8 LEON/BENIGNO 2.080.112
9 LEON/BELEN 10.102.820
10 SALAMI/XIOMAR 5.017.686
11 ALAYSSAMI/SAMER 14.700.609
12 PAZO/YURIMIA 6.290.555
13 LANDAETA/RAFAEL 12.362.384
14 HERNANDEZ/ELOY 8.024.930
15 CORREA/EDITH 84.395.006
16 BUSTAMANTE/JOHN 14.690.149
17 MACIAS/INES 15.203.936
18 FARFAN/HUGO 94.385.266
19 RUIZ/JUAN PABLO 94.537.064
20 VARGAS/LUIS 16.759.089
21 GUARCH/VIVIAN 47.110.706
22 MARTINEZ/ADRIANA 15.755.343
23 HERNANDEZ/ELIZABETH 8.001.255
24 PEREZ/ORLANDO 5.115.178
25 CIRA/MARIA CORINA 4.882.101
26 DIAZ/JUAN CARLOS 16.593.266
27 SILVA/SUSANA 11.059.110
28 MORENO/JOSE 4.094.496
29 TORRES/MARIO 19.541.577
30 QUINTERO/ALEXANDER 9.479.645
31 PARRA/RICARDO 14.152.218
32 SALAZAR/RUBEN 13.772.271
33 OCANDO/IRIS 8.948.845
34 GIOVENCO/JOHAN 13.113.506
35 RODRIGUEZ/GABRIELA 17.064.370
36 VIVAS/VIVIAN 13.532.267
37 PEREZ/GUSTAVO 5.062.338
38 LUCENTINI/OSCAR 5.192.977
39 ARREDONDO/KATIUSKA 9.947.809
40 QUINETRO/EISBERTH SIN CÉDULA
41 GIL/CARMEN 5.597.230
42 GONZALEZ/FRANCISCO 672.805
43 VEZGA/YASMIN 3.602.028


TRIPULACIÓN C.I.
44 GARANITO/ALDINO 11.058.035
45 FERREIRA/ DENIS 14.164.486
46 EDMUNDO/DÍAZ 12.833.644

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Farzan
Posted 2008-02-21 22:33:18 and read 24217 times.



Quoting LEARJETMIAMI (Reply 27):
A continuación la lista de los pasajeros del avión YV1449:

This must be a first. Somebody posting a list of the passengers on a crashed aircraft a few hours after the crash. There is no way that all relatives can be informed in such a short time. The post should be deleted.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Mmedford
Posted 2008-02-21 22:49:30 and read 23986 times.



Quoting Farzan (Reply 28):

One of the news links above, list all the passengers...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Allstarflyer
Posted 2008-02-21 22:59:15 and read 23842 times.



Quoting Mmedford (Reply 29):
Quoting Farzan (Reply 28):


One of the news links above, list all the passengers...

Listing names is inappropriate (unless next of kin were notified at the drop of a hat, but even then . . .), but if they're going to publish it on a website down there, there shouldn't be a problem with it here then.

Anyone have handy the performance history of this a/c?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: AR385
Posted 2008-02-21 23:18:39 and read 23605 times.



Quoting Farzan (Reply 28):
The post should be deleted.

Why? It has already been posted in a Venezuelan media web site.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: AndrewUber
Posted 2008-02-22 00:25:33 and read 22939 times.

Very sad day. Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 01:57:33 and read 22249 times.

Quote:
This accident is similar to the DC-9 of Aeropostal crash in Trujillo

This accident and the one of Aeropostal in Trujillo (that happened on March 5th, 1991) do not have any similarities at all. The DC-9 accident was determined by a crew error when they were supposed to set the VOR Frequency of Santa Barbara del Zulia (114,90) they really set the VOR Frequency of Valera (114,40). The difference between the number 4 and 9 in the decimal number in a digital format cannot be distinguished in a panel with direct sunlight on it.

The pilot and the copilot were discussing about a personal topic when they realized that they were over the top of descent, so they started a rather steep descent of 5.000 feet. When they broke the ceiling they could see that they were not on the Plains of the Southern Region of Maracaibo lake, but with the Andes mountains in front of them. The crew spooled up the engines and pulled up. But they were not able to regain control due to the steep descent and the tail of the DC-9 hit the mountain, killing all 45 souls on board (and a cow that was nearby the crashsite).

The causes of the crash of this ATR are going to be determined in the following days. It is too early to speculate about them.

Saludos,

Roberto.

[Edited 2008-02-22 02:18:54]

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Abrelosojos
Posted 2008-02-22 02:14:34 and read 22023 times.

Such sad news. I am in Bangladesh for work ... and my heart remains in Venezuela. May the people rest in peace.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: JD747
Posted 2008-02-22 02:24:13 and read 21913 times.

Very very sad  frown . My prayers and condolences to the families of the passengers and crew.

I've flown in those Santa Barbara's ATR several times from/to Mérida, since my wife is from Mérida, and my stepfather has just called me to tell me the news and let me know that he knew several of the passengers on board. Aviation is not looking very good lately in Venezuela. Let's hope things get better as soon as possible so these won't happen again

Too sad.

Regards

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: B747forever
Posted 2008-02-22 02:35:52 and read 21810 times.

This is really sad news. I doubt that they will found any survivor, but lets hope for the best.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: RICARIZA
Posted 2008-02-22 04:17:04 and read 21008 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 17):
Guys it's been confirmed that the plane crashed near the Merida area, in a field where some people saw it fall...

I am so very very sorry, this is very sad....the best for their families..
Ahh que vaina!!

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 04:41:59 and read 20774 times.

At this time, 08:00 CCS Time (12:30 GMT) there are no news. The SAR mission began early in the morning and there has not been found any wreckage yet. There are just the usual rumors and speculation from the media.

Quote:
Ahh que vaina!!

As usual, la vaina of living in a country in which safety is not a priority.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: ViasaMSY
Posted 2008-02-22 04:54:28 and read 20687 times.

I just access the Venezuelan news web site "Noticiero Digital" and people are in awe that the aircraft has yet to be found.
Roberto the only priority in Venezuela is Chavez "rotten" revolution.
What is happening in our country? This is the 4th accident since January 1st.
A country in shambles. So very sad news indeed.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Georgiabill
Posted 2008-02-22 04:55:06 and read 20599 times.

Condolences to the families of the passengers and crew.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 05:30:52 and read 20260 times.



Quote:
Roberto the only priority in Venezuela is Chavez "rotten" revolution.

This goes beyond Chavez. It is the way of doing business most of the medium and small airlines in Latin America... Corruption, lack of inspections, ageing airplanes, use of doubtful spares... And Venezuela is not an exception. I agree that this revolution has worsened the private airline sector.

This situation has been a constant pattern not only here but in many other cases. I strongly recommend you the movie Whisky Romeo Zulu by Enrique Piñeyro, an former LAPA Captain that tells his personal story of an accident of a Boeing 737-200 in Argentina some years ago.

The link to learn more about the movie is here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0356487/

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Juventus
Posted 2008-02-22 05:51:09 and read 19903 times.



Quoting Cybergus (Reply 5):
Holy .....! First the LET410 about a month and now this.

Very sorry to hear this, in Mexico some say " nos llueve sobre mojado"

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 05:59:10 and read 19798 times.

Last night I followed closely the development of the news and now, the morning after, everything seems to be the same. The wreckage has not been found despite the fact that some people saw the airplane falling, how is that possible!?

Quoting ViasaMSY (Reply 39):
What is happening in our country? This is the 4th accident since January 1st.

Following my interpretation from above, how can this be possible? Aviation in Venezuela has degraded to a point where it is something extremely unreliable to do. This plus the Let accident are two big questionmarks in terms of security and professionalism; not to mention the fact of the Government's response in search and rescue assistance. What the heck is going on!?

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 41):
This goes beyond Chavez. It is the way of doing business most of the medium and small airlines in Latin America... Corruption, lack of inspections, ageing airplanes, use of doubtful spares... And Venezuela is not an exception. I agree that this revolution has worsened the private airline sector.

It does go beyond Chavez, it's all in the Venezuelan culture that has been adopted thanks to the Chavez revolution. The way to do things in Venezuela are much different than back in the good old days, and it's completely excusable. Everyone is trying to survive in an environment in which is not easy to succeed... but airlines have managed to throw their aircraft up in the sky under the minimum conditions of safety and reliability. That's why the Let crashed and I bet that this accident was a severe technical issue at the moment of departure.

Let's wait to see what'll happen.

One of the passengers, Italo Luongo, was a famous Internationalist who was interviewed in a regular basis at several radio programs in Caracas. R.I.P

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 06:02:35 and read 19771 times.

According to rescue forces the wreckage was now found in a mountainous region in an altitude of 13.000 ft. The plane is completely destroyed. It is said that there are no survivors due to the direct impact into the mountain.
The rescue forces will try to reach the area within the next hours.

My condolences to the families of the passengers and crew.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 06:02:52 and read 19770 times.

At this time 09:30 CCS Time (14:00 GMT) It's been informed by reliable sources that the airplane has been found and that there are no survivors. More news to come.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Alessandro
Posted 2008-02-22 06:13:26 and read 19610 times.

Rleiro, if true, then it´s the worst ATR-42 crash, hope it´s wrong... Sad

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 06:18:34 and read 19577 times.

You tube video of the aircraft taking off at MRD on another day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4lA8QtE9Lwt

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 06:20:39 and read 19504 times.

The discovery of the wreckage will be more than enough to tell what the heck happened with the airfract, and why it crashed...

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 47):
You tube video of the aircraft taking off at MRD on another day.

there's nothing here Chiguire...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 06:22:47 and read 19617 times.

There's detailed info on the site of the crash with images on the following link:

http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=12205

In spanish.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Richierich
Posted 2008-02-22 06:26:55 and read 19487 times.

Wow - this is awful news. USAToday - hardly the bastion of trustworthy news - is reporting that local residents heard a loud crash. It does not mention that the wreckage has been located and says nothing about the condition of those on-board. Whatever the news, it doesn't sound good and, unfortunately, these types of things usually do not end well.

RIP to those that were lost in the crash - may their families and friends be comforted during this difficult time.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 777jaah
Posted 2008-02-22 06:27:43 and read 19301 times.

Doesn't look good at all. I hope survivors are found, and no need for condolences for any relative, but we better wait for official news.

Quoting Rleiro (Reply 41):
I strongly recommend you the movie Whisky Romeo Zulu by Enrique Piñeyro, an former LAPA Captain that tells his personal story of an accident of a Boeing 737-200 in Argentina some years ago.

Seen it like 4 times. Great movie, very well detailed an explained. I also recomended it.


JAAH

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ogre727
Posted 2008-02-22 06:28:10 and read 19321 times.

I just learned the news about this crash. I took that very flight a month and a half ago. I always thought that Santa Barbara was an OK airline, safety included. Maybe I was wrong, we will have to see.

My heart goes out to the relatives and friends.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 06:29:43 and read 19390 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 48):

there's nothing here Chiguire...

Sorry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4lA8QtE9Lw

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 06:30:56 and read 19359 times.

I found a recent picture of the aircraft here.

According to the news, the MRD airport is full of people and officials trying to explain the situation which has only been brought up by the media, there hasn't been official announcements but is way more than clear that the aircraf did crash and that there are no survivors.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: NA
Posted 2008-02-22 06:57:09 and read 18898 times.

Very sad to hear these news about the first fatal airliner crash in 2008.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 07:03:58 and read 18822 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 54):
there hasn't been official announcements but is way more than clear that the aircraf did crash and that there are no survivors.

The "proteccion civil" announced that. So this is pretty official. They are even showing pictures from near the carsh site in TV.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 07:24:32 and read 18486 times.

When does something happen here to improve safety ?

Flying has never been that dangerous ! Looks like the airlines don't even check the tires anymore:

Estallaron cauchos de avión en aterrizaje

SASCA overruns runway in LRV

The Transaven crash, the SB Airlines crash, the numerous emergency landings from Aserca, the emergencies from Avior and RUTACA. Another SASCA emergency (not reported anywhere - I saw it personally in PMV - in Nov 07) .

The assignment of US$ by Cadivi is certainly one reason. But meanwhile I would say that maintenance quality is a serious issue. Exploding tires have little to do with US$ assignments. Pilots taking off with bad tires are irresponsible ! Can someone here bring up some issues from the pilots side ? I know there are a lot of posts in Conviasas and Aeropostals internal forums.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: B747forever
Posted 2008-02-22 07:27:15 and read 18446 times.



Quoting NA (Reply 55):
Very sad to hear these news about the first fatal airliner crash in 2008.

This isnt the first of 2008.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: MCOflyer
Posted 2008-02-22 07:46:04 and read 18110 times.



Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 40):
Condolences to the families of the passengers and crew.

I could not agree more and express mine as well. I just have to ask why would someone publish a pax list right away?

Kinghunter from MCO

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 07:48:42 and read 18087 times.



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 59):
I just have to ask why would someone publish a pax list right away?

This is very common here. One of the first things they do. Last evening it was read live from the Governour of Merida in TV few hours after the crash.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: NEMA
Posted 2008-02-22 07:59:11 and read 18042 times.

Wreckage found..

Here's the latest from the BBC,


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7258117.stm

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Access-Air
Posted 2008-02-22 08:06:29 and read 17853 times.



Quoting PU752 (Reply 22):
Im wondering what could've brought down such a reliable and power full plane like an ATR........



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 46):
Rleiro, if true, then it´s the worst ATR-42 crash, hope it´s wrong...

Have we forgotten the ATI crash in the late 1980s of the ATR-42 that crashed near Lake Como in the Italian ALPS due to Inflight Icing......And how can we forget the horrible Inverted Nose dive of an Ice Caked Simmons Airlines ATR-72 on 31 October 1994 in Roselawn, Indiaia operating as American Eagle.

I wonder if flying thru storms, this Santa Barbara ATR-42 encountered any Icing problems. I know that I have flown on turboprop aircraft in September flying thru some big storm clouds we picked up ice...

I have flown on ATR 42s and 72s and from my experiences on them, they seemed to fly really squirley and the wing seemed to be really stiff....

Not sure if anyone can confirm this but, I remember when they ATR series was first introduced that they had a problem with the Wing Box failing after a short amount of time in service...

In Anycase, my thoughts and prayers go to the families of those that have lost their lives in this accident.

Access-Air

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Richierich
Posted 2008-02-22 08:14:33 and read 17725 times.

Icing will be looked at, I'm sure, but considering the geography and the reports that "it hit a wall of rock", I'd say it is much more likely a case of CFIT. Too many CFIT accidents - very sad.

It is clear that this was not a survivable accident and as much as we hold out hope for this not to be true, it sounds like it is the unfortunate news today.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 474218
Posted 2008-02-22 08:17:07 and read 17691 times.



Quoting NA (Reply 55):
Very sad to hear these news about the first fatal airliner crash in 2008.



Quoting B747forever (Reply 58):
This isnt the first of 2008.

Not even the first in Venezuela in 2008.

Let 410 operated by Transaven Airlines crashed off Los Roques Island, Venezuela on January 4, 2008 killing 14.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 08:19:28 and read 17729 times.

Latest News at 11:30 CCS time (16:00 GMT):

- The wreckage was found. It was a direct hit to the mountain. The airplane was completely destroyed (except the tail which is the only part identifiable).

- There are no survivors. All 46 people on board are dead.

- Local Authorities are now working on the recovery of the plane and the bodies.

- The Pax list and Crew names was published as it is a standard here in the country.

More news to come.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Chiguire
Posted 2008-02-22 08:25:30 and read 17590 times.

The theory with the icing is maybe not bad. It could explain why the flight hit the mountain during daytime (if visibility was good). This also means a failure in the de-icing system.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 08:27:14 and read 17586 times.



Quoting Richierich (Reply 63):
Icing will be looked at, I'm sure, but considering the geography and the reports that "it hit a wall of rock", I'd say it is much more likely a case of CFIT. Too many CFIT accidents - very sad.

Indeed, in my opinion CFIT is the main suspect considering it crashed at 13,000ft...probably it was still climbing.

CFIT is still nowadays one of the 2 or 3 main causes of air accidents.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: B747forever
Posted 2008-02-22 08:38:22 and read 17340 times.



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 65):
There are no survivors. All 46 people on board are dead.

So, sad. So sad.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 08:43:52 and read 17318 times.

a couple months ago I flew on the cockpit of the Conviasa Atr72 from Maracaibo to Caracas. Weather conditions were rainy and thunderstorms and I recall passing over Trujillo, relatively close to the accident, when the alarms for Icing the wings popped up. The pilots got really worried and performed the regular procedure with no problems.

Judging by the reaction of the pilots, along with the location of the event is dare to say that its a common thing to see icing problems in these aircraft... That's a good theory...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 08:53:48 and read 17127 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 69):
The pilots got really worried and performed the regular procedure with no problems.

Really? .... I find odd that the pilots get really worried, I'm not an ATR pilot but I guess the plane must have a good anti-ice system and if you follow the procedures everything must be ok and not be stressed out...although of course there are differents types of icing that may cause the pilots attention depending of how severe the icing condition could be.....

The plane flew straight to the mountain, as reported, so at least to me this doesn't sound as an ice issue.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: ViasaMSY
Posted 2008-02-22 08:59:24 and read 17029 times.

Unofficial reports indicate that low visibility and lack of radar at El Vigia Airport might have contributed to the accident. Indeed CFIT might have been the cause.
Que En Paz Descancen . So very sad.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 09:01:59 and read 16998 times.

Yes, they got pretty worried and actually they turned on al landing lights to have visual contact with both wings. Rain wasn't too strong but there was loads of wind and t-storms in the area...

Since it was daytime and weather conditions weren't too bad I wouldn't think it was icing issues, I'd go more for a tech issue far beyond something controllable. These aircraft aren't in good care, despite what S3's president says. Whatever it was, its unforgivable

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 09:13:18 and read 16762 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 72):
Yes, they got pretty worried and actually they turned on al landing lights to have visual contact with both wings. Rain wasn't too strong but there was loads of wind and t-storms in the area...

I see, thanks for clarify.

Quoting 797 (Reply 72):
Since it was daytime and weather conditions weren't too bad I wouldn't think it was icing issues, I'd go more for a tech issue far beyond something controllable. These aircraft aren't in good care, despite what S3's president says. Whatever it was, its unforgivable

Its weird to see a tech issue in a plane that flies straight into a mountain probably inside of a cloud layer at around 13,000ft.....

according to this report :

"Uno de los efectivos bomberiles que iba en el helicóptero, sargento Johnny Paz, informó a Globovisión que el punto donde se avistó el avión es de muy difícil acceso". “El impacto fue de manera directa, la aeronave esta prácticamente pulverizada, no hay sobrevivientes”, señaló.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Orl777
Posted 2008-02-22 09:17:21 and read 16692 times.

Wow these news are really bad, another Accident for the 2008 accidents list in venezuela, this time was a bigger plane, but if the authorities doesn't pay attention to the aviation crisis situation here this can of accidents will be happening in more common basis, sadly but is what can I think now. and to the Families really my condolences and for the unfortunates Passengers I hope they rest in peace

Saludos.

Orlando

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-22 09:17:39 and read 16725 times.

I discussed the icing issue with a former ATR F/O yesterday and said that was an unlikely scenario. The ceiling was at FL130 and the temperatures were not cold enough for icing.

No further news until now. I'll leave Caracas until sunday, so I'll update you with further news when I'm back.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Reality
Posted 2008-02-22 09:25:10 and read 16735 times.



Quoting PU752 (Reply 67):

CFIT is still nowadays one of the 2 or 3 main causes of air accidents.

For those of you, like me, who don't know all the acronyms and jargon:

"Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) describes an accident whereby an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, inadvertently flies into terrain, an obstacle, or water. The term was developed by engineers at Boeing in the late 1970s.[citation needed] The pilots are generally unaware of the danger until it is too late.

Pilots with any level of experience, even highly experienced professionals, may commit CFIT. Pilot fatigue, loss of situational awareness, or disorientation may play a role. The incidents often involve impact with significantly raised terrain such as hills or mountains, and may occur in conditions of clouds or otherwise reduced visibility. CFIT often occurs during aircraft descent to landing, near an airport.

CFIT may be associated with equipment malfunction. If the malfunction occurs in a piece of navigational equipment, it may mislead the crew into improperly guiding the aircraft despite other information received from all properly functioning equipment, or despite clear sky visibility that should have allowed the crew to easily notice ground proximity (compare tunnel vision). In other cases, the usually minor malfunction does not affect the overall airworthiness of the plane, but may distract the crew from properly guiding the plane.

In order to combat the occurrence of CFIT accidents, manufacturers and safety regulators developed the Ground Proximity Warning System GPWS, which uses a Radar altimeter to assist in calculating terrain closure rates. This system has now been further improved with the addition of a GPS terrain database. Now known as Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System EGPWS, both systems have mandatory pilot procedures and actions following any caution or warning event.[2]

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Art
Posted 2008-02-22 09:26:16 and read 16649 times.

What is CFIT please?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 09:36:05 and read 16526 times.



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 75):
I discussed the icing issue with a former ATR F/O yesterday and said that was an unlikely scenario. The ceiling was at FL130 and the temperatures were not cold enough for icing.

Thanks, that was what I thought ......most of air accidents related to icing are different kind of stalls, spins or flat spins not flying straight into a mountain.

Quoting Art (Reply 77):
What is CFIT please?

Read reply 76.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: ViasaMSY
Posted 2008-02-22 09:36:24 and read 16574 times.

These are the coordinates where the wreckage was found: 08º39.190' N 071º13.423' W
Google Earth gives you an idea of how difficult rescue operations might be due to the mountaneous terrain.
Thank you Roberto for all information. Safe travels.
Saludos
Pedro

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: TheSonntag
Posted 2008-02-22 10:09:38 and read 16108 times.



Quoting Art (Reply 77):
What is CFIT please?

It is an abbreviation for Controlled Flight Into Terrain, meaning that the flight crashed into something while the flight crew still had control about the airplane.

This is different from, for example, disintegration in flight due to maintenance problems.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: DTWAGENT
Posted 2008-02-22 11:19:26 and read 15194 times.

My God bless all the families during this time of sadness.

Chuck

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Scoobyd75
Posted 2008-02-22 11:59:10 and read 14711 times.

This has been happening to often lately around the world. Sad Sad situation,. Condolences to all family and friends

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ikramerica
Posted 2008-02-22 12:17:27 and read 14549 times.



Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 80):
It is an abbreviation for Controlled Flight Into Terrain, meaning that the flight crashed into something while the flight crew still had control about the airplane.

The horrible AA crash in Colombia is an example of this.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 12:21:43 and read 14507 times.



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 75):
I discussed the icing issue with a former ATR F/O yesterday and said that was an unlikely scenario. The ceiling was at FL130 and the temperatures were not cold enough for icing.

Roberto, you're right.

I just called my uncle's pilot back in Venezuela - who flies to MRD and the nearby airports on a very regular basis - and told me that the most likely thing to have happened is a CFIT at last minute. He said that in fact, the ceiling was at 13.000ft MSL, which according to the rescue information is the same altitude where the accident happened.

Concluding from this, I'd say that the pilots didn't climb sufficiently and when they came into the clouds, didn't realize the exact geographical situation that was in front of them... if that's so, then Pilot Error it will be. So far, makes a lot of sense despite the fact that the Captain has been working for S3 for many years.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: TwinOtter4Ever
Posted 2008-02-22 12:27:15 and read 14415 times.

As far as icing goes with the ATR aircraft. If I remember correctly there was a design issue with their de-icing boots which allowed ice to build up just to the rear of the boot causing wing aero issue and in turn an ineffectual de-icing is some situation. Though I believe they address this problem with design changes after the American Eagle crash. I wonder if they may be still prone to icing (although to a lesser degree) at time which may have contributed to a lack of lift to get over the hump. Perhaps they had incorrect altimeter settings or were dealing with another inflight issue which distracted them (as REALITY had illuded to). Perhaps a power failure of some of the avionics. I guess only time will tell. It is sad that we always have to wait for a nasty crash like this before safety procedure are improved. Man human nature suck.

May everyone rest in peace.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 13:33:54 and read 13689 times.



Quoting ViasaMSY (Reply 79):
These are the coordinates where the wreckage was found: 08
[quote=797,reply=84]Concluding from this, I'd say that the pilots didn't climb sufficiently and when they came into the clouds, didn't realize the exact geographical situation that was in front of them... if that's so, then Pilot Error it will be. So far, makes a lot of sense despite the fact that the Captain has been working for S3 for many years.

There are certain procedures to avoid terrain, those are charts.... what I do not know, and probably a pilot from vzla or someone who knows, are SID charts are available in Venezuela's AIP for MRD? or they just use radar vectors for departure issued by controller? ... you know, you dont just take off and go wherever you want, even less when there's terrain near by. Another question is, does the controller have a radar screen ? why didn't they alarm the pilot that he was going straight into terrain? many factors though...

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Semsem
Posted 2008-02-22 14:55:30 and read 12929 times.

There are a lot of crashes in Venezuela every year it seems. I think the US banned their airlines.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-22 15:29:34 and read 12805 times.

Guys, ugly moment. First pictures from the wreckage online. Here's one of them, then click on the link and see the rest of them

The tail of the aircraft is clearly visible:


Link:
http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=12230

This gives me the creeps... makes me feel really bad

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Sevenair
Posted 2008-02-22 15:34:02 and read 12559 times.

Awful scenes. And they were so tragically close to the summit of the hill.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: PU752
Posted 2008-02-22 16:09:23 and read 12245 times.

Terrible and shocking images ....... may the pax and crew rest in peace.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Airbus767
Posted 2008-02-22 16:44:03 and read 12069 times.

 Sad Knowing 46 people lost their lives there in that photo is particularly striking... sad day for Venezuela, I hope they can get to the cause of the crash so that it does not happen again...

 tombstone 

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Civilav
Posted 2008-02-22 19:17:03 and read 11790 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 84):
f that's so, then Pilot Error it will be.

Yes Enrique, pilot error indeed seems to have been.

For a start, the plane was way off course. Usual procedure is for planes to depart runway 24 on a southwesterly direction to gain altitude and then turn 180º over the town of Acequias and backtrack over Merida and the Chama Valley while continuing to climb. This pilot was at least 15 kms to the west of its intended course and ran straight into the mountain wall (it is a wall, literally, I have seen myself) of the mighty Anded barely 5 minutes after take off and way below the necessary flight level to clear the tops easily. Weather conditions were ok yesterday and visibility reasonable for the time of day and season of the year.

You can take it from me, someon who has flown the Caracas to Merida route at least on 145 different occasions, that you never ever attempt to go through the Parque Nacional La Culata (páramos Los Conejos is part of it) either on approach or take off and you stick to the main Chama river Valley course as it runs through the mountain ranges and keeps you safe in the middle. Indeed, it you have any suspicions about visibility, you fly from Merida to Caracas via El Vigia and along the Maracaibo Lake coast which is what the official Venezuelan aeronautical charts recommend. It was Avensa pilots back in the early 80s when they introduced 727-200 service to Merida that they came up with this novel way of flying in and out of a tricky airport. For the record, old Aeropostal (pre-privatisation) pilots never flew this route with DC-9 equipment except on very clear days and optimal weather conditions.

This accident is indeed similar in nature to the old LAV one in Trujillo in 1991. Then, the pilot went for a nap and he let his young inexperienced relative (whom he wanted to become a pilot) take over to practise and ended up over 150 kms off course. This is the real truth of what happened, no navigation mistakes as claimed by somebody in this thread. It was all hushed up at the insistence of the then very powerful and influential ANP (National Pilots Association) as it was rather disgraceful to the Union.

Pilot error is not very uncommon in Venezuela. The most arrogant or coky one, if that is the way to put it, occurred on Sunday March 16th 1969 when a brand new VIASA DC-9-32 took off from Maracaibo's then Grano de Oro airport and shaved off the tops of buildings nearby killing as many on the ground as on the plane. The pilot, whose name I shall refrain from disclosing, had boasted openly (with many witnesses who testified to this during the public inquest then) that he could take off a fully loaded plane from half way down the runway at 36ºC surface temperature. The 06 runway then in Maracaibo was just 2000 mts long... he skipped at least 500 mts. There were houses and 3-storey buildings at the end of the runway. The rest is history.

Greetings from Cancun !

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: ComeAndGo
Posted 2008-02-22 22:34:09 and read 11565 times.



Quoting Chiguire (Reply 66):
The theory with the icing is maybe not bad. It could explain why the flight hit the mountain during daytime (if visibility was good). This also means a failure in the de-icing system.

Well, looking at the picture posted on top, the aircraft is equipped with the revised anti icing equipment mandated by the FAA after the US ATR crash and the second ATR that almost crashed. The black pneumatic boots on the wing leading edge extend further back than they used to. But you can also see that the aircraft has no boots between the fuselage and the engines. All ATRs operating in the US have to have boots between the engines and the fuselage.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Viasa
Posted 2008-02-23 01:15:44 and read 11423 times.

I'm very sad about this accident. RIP

For me is/was Santa Barbara Airlines the safest airline from Venezuela.

Here are some pictures of the crashsite: http://www.noticias24.com/actualidad/?p=12230

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ogre727
Posted 2008-02-23 10:02:25 and read 11154 times.

Guys,

I debated a lot to upload this or not. If this is a mistake, please accept my apologies, but looking back at my pictures from my holidays in Venezuela in December, I realized I took the very same plane, on the same flight (same schedule). This was on December 30. After we landed in CCS I asked to go into the cockpit and that is one of the pictures. The other one is when I was boarding the plane in MRD.

I wanted to share with you guys. Merida is really close to my heart. I lived there many years and this accident has made me really really sad.




Big version: Width: 3264 Height: 2448 File size: 1803kb
Big version: Width: 3264 Height: 2448 File size: 2338kb

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Sh0rtybr0wn
Posted 2008-02-23 10:10:26 and read 11043 times.

When will planes have better radar /integrated GPS systems that can alert pilots to CFIT dangers far enough in advance to avoid the problem?
Does the A380 have the newest system and can in prevent this? Will the 787?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-23 10:13:55 and read 11095 times.

Some more news have developed.

A group of pilots who knew the pilot in command on this flight said that they were impressed that the aircraft was headed in that direction. As Civilav well said, there's only one route to go in and out of MRD. These pilots said that trying to go through the place where the accident occured is like 'trying to go through a wall to shortcut a path'.

Considering the weather conditions and the usual flight planning that the aircraft that go in and out of MRD I would consider this a huge pilot error. All the pilots I know who have flown to this place are extremely careful with the approach and departure procedures into this airport. It's surrounded with high mountains and the path that leads towards the airport is pretty narrow. As a matter of fact there's one way in and out into the same runway.

This is really sad.

The black box has been recovered and they have taken it for screening the data.

Quoting Ogre727 (Reply 95):
I wanted to share with you guys. Merida is really close to my heart. I lived there many years and this accident has made me really really sad.

Thanks for sharing Ogre, that's a bit scary considering where that airplane lays right now.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: MIAMIx707
Posted 2008-02-23 18:04:39 and read 10699 times.

I can't remember the exact details but I've had the opportunity to talk to two people who used to fly in Venezuela:

One was a neighbor, ex pilot for Avensa (737). He was telling me of an instance where another incoming aircraft nearly hit his.

Another was a younger guy (in his 20s) who used to work on the Zuliana cargo DC-8. He said that aircraft would land at Miami with the operating permit (airworthiness certificate??) expired


I guess it's no joke to fly in Venezuela


PS: Reading some of the comments on the spanish site someone mentions the crash at Ciudad Bolivar and how both have in common there's little left of the airplane. What crash are they talking about?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Luisde8cd
Posted 2008-02-23 19:44:21 and read 10598 times.

I'm in shock, I just found out that I knew one of the pax of this flight... I just can't believe it.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: TACAA320
Posted 2008-02-23 20:52:08 and read 10545 times.



Quoting Farzan (Reply 28):
The post should be deleted.

I totally agree with you.
Such list must be deleted [sorry for the unnecessary echo].

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: RCS763AV
Posted 2008-02-24 15:12:18 and read 10296 times.

My prayers to the 5 Colombian citizens who died on the crash. And to the rest of the ocupants.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-02-24 16:03:06 and read 10248 times.

The black box is in hands of the INAC (Department of Air Transportation) and they said it might take weeks before the results come up...

I'm not expecting a honest declaration by this institution when the results come up...

Everything is too weird.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-02-24 16:09:45 and read 10258 times.

Hi Guys, here are some updates:

- The CVR and FDR were recovered yesterday. I assume they will be sent to France for their analysis.

- INAC suspended ATR operations of Santa Barbara by Friday afternoon until saturday noon. The reasons of the suspension and the almost immediate lifting thereof are unknown.

- Until now, only six bags with human remains were recovered. It is supposed that by tomorrow the recovery of the bodies will be completed if weather conditions permits so.

Quote:
There are certain procedures to avoid terrain, those are charts.... what I do not know, and probably a pilot from vzla or someone who knows, are SID charts are available in Venezuela's AIP for MRD?

There is only a chart that indicates a visual arrival through the valley of Rio Chama. The departure of Flight 518 is called via "Observatory" which is the opposed way. It is a normal procedure and the airlines print their own set of charts for this departure.

Quote:
This accident is indeed similar in nature to the old LAV one in Trujillo in 1991. Then, the pilot went for a nap and he let his young inexperienced relative (whom he wanted to become a pilot) take over to practise and ended up over 150 kms off course.

Read the reply 33 of this topic to read what really happened.

Quote:
I wanted to share with you guys. Merida is really close to my heart. I lived there many years and this accident has made me really really sad.

Wow, quite eerie picture indeed.  Sad

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Civilav
Posted 2008-02-24 17:10:48 and read 10206 times.



Quoting Rleiro (Reply 103):
Read the reply 33 of this topic to read what really happened.

Roberto, I stick by my version of events.
I was then Marketing and Sales VP of RCTV (1988-1992) and as a TV station we had access to the facts and pitctures which, as someone with aviation dear to his heart, I was only too eager to digest fully.
The TV Station was officially asked to skip over the details and only put out the official explanation to appease the ANP.

The mix up in the VOR frequencies on a 25 minute flight was precisely because the wrong person was doing such a task. If the pilot had been in command and watching out the path followed by the plane he would have noticed immediately that, instead of heading completely south, the plane was going southeast !! Surely, you know that to travel from Maracaibo to Santa Barbara (the plane took off from runway 02L) you turn left and head south instead of turning right and heading southeast !

Still. Your version is the official one to dress things up. Mine is the unofficial but sad truth of what really happened. Same thing with a LAV DC-9-14 in 1993 which crashed off Margarita island. It was on a pilot training mission but, when they recovered the corpses from the sea, they found unaccounted for female company on the plane... Again, that was hushed up.

Greetings from Cancun !

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Viasa
Posted 2008-02-26 12:38:32 and read 9950 times.

Some pictures or links:





http://doc.noticias24.com/0802/panodi25.jpg

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ogre727
Posted 2008-03-06 07:23:47 and read 9433 times.

Any news on this crash? have they been able to get the CVRs?

Also, small warning. I had the misfortune of stumbling upon some horrible pictures of the crash. I was not interested at all at looking at bodies from the crash, I just wanted to look at the state of the aircraft and how far or close they had been to clearing the edge of the mountain. The pictures were bad, and althogh I just saw one picture I was horrified by what I saw. Again, be careful if you are not interested in those kind of things.

Finally, I just spoke with someone in Merida, and I was told that there is one theory going around. I hope not to get flamed by posting what I heard. This is what it is being said:

- The pilot had tried to report to the Merida control tower (a mechanical failure), but the personnel in the control tower had already left for the day (this was the last flight of the day). The pilot was trying to return to Merida when crashed into the mountains, which would explain why they were soooo off course.

This will, of course, be cleared up when the CVR's come, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone knew of something new.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Rleiro
Posted 2008-03-06 11:13:26 and read 9304 times.

The CVRs were found and sent to france for its analysis. It's supposed that in a week or so we'd get the results to see what happened. Although, the theory that the ATR crashed due to an mechanical failure is gaining strength. INAC authorities are now under investigation and the President of the INAC plus many other officers were removed.

It's interesting to see what will happen to Santa Barbara Airlines if a mechanical failure is proved and the legal measures that the relatives of passenger will take against the airline.

Saludos,

Roberto.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Reality
Posted 2008-03-13 07:53:14 and read 9013 times.

Almost another week has gone by. Any updates on this? Thanks.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ogre727
Posted 2008-03-20 01:05:05 and read 8766 times.



Quoting Reality (Reply 108):
Almost another week has gone by. Any updates on this? Thanks.

And another one... how long does it take to retrieve the info from the CVRs?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Viasa
Posted 2008-03-20 02:48:05 and read 8684 times.

Are the S3 ATR42 back in service?

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Civilav
Posted 2008-03-20 20:48:33 and read 8476 times.



Quoting Viasa (Reply 110):
Are the S3 ATR42 back in service?

No Viasa, they are still out of service. Rumour doing the rounds is that the grounded ATR planes are indeed unfit to fly and that, at some point, there was a mechanical failure involved in the crash.

Again, this is unconfirmed, but it would seem likely that the airline will simply declare bankruptcy and exit the aviation scene altogether rather than face expensive lawsuits. All its domestic services have been suspended for almost a month now.

Greetings from Cancun.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: A388
Posted 2008-03-20 21:17:32 and read 8416 times.



Quoting Civilav (Reply 111):
All its domestic services have been suspended for almost a month now.

So which flights are still operated by S3?

A388

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: DTWAGENT
Posted 2008-03-21 01:06:44 and read 8318 times.

May God be with all those who lost a love one tonight. And help them thru this though time. God Bless them all and may he give everyone one of the family members streingth to care on during the Holiday season of marking the Death and rasing of our Lord. Amen

Chuck

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Civilav
Posted 2008-03-21 11:01:48 and read 8182 times.



Quoting A388 (Reply 112):
So which flights are still operated by S3?

International services to Madrid, Tenerife, Funchal, Ecuador and Miami only.
That is all.

Greetings from Cancun !

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Cybergus
Posted 2008-03-21 18:35:46 and read 8051 times.



Quoting Civilav (Reply 114):
International services to Madrid, Tenerife, Funchal, Ecuador and Miami only.
That is all.

Well I arrived today from PMV and I saw a couple of S3 ATR'S operating national flights, in fact in the screen the flight from Merida was shown as Boarding today. So it seems that they are getting in the track again.

Saludos.

Tavo

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: 797
Posted 2008-03-22 09:33:38 and read 7840 times.



Quoting Cybergus (Reply 115):
Well I arrived today from PMV and I saw a couple of S3 ATR'S operating national flights, in fact in the screen the flight from Merida was shown as Boarding today. So it seems that they are getting in the track again.

As far as I know these aircraft are being operated under charter agreements and not as Santa Barbara Airlines.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: EDGAREN
Posted 2008-03-22 10:40:49 and read 7780 times.



Quoting 797 (Reply 116):
As far as I know these aircraft are being operated under charter agreements and not as Santa Barbara Airlines.

Yeap that's right!...remember that S3 doesnt have scheduled regular flights to Margarita, so most likely those are charter fligths due to the easter high demand.


SALUDOS DESDE VALENCIA, EDGAR.

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Civilav
Posted 2008-03-22 11:24:58 and read 7738 times.



Quoting Cybergus (Reply 115):
Well I arrived today from PMV and I saw a couple of S3 ATR'S operating national flights

That is very odd indeed.
I have checked several times daily (at the office and at home) the Maiquetia airport website and ALL domestic flights by Santa Barbara have been cancelled for almost a month now. Even today, you can check and they are all cancelled too.

This, then, lends credence to the notion that Aserca will ground the fleet for good and stick only to international services under the S3 banner.

Merida is already up in arms about this as only Avior is landing there regularly and this Easter season business has been affected badly. My bet is that Conviasa will gladly ditch El Vigia for Merida any time soon and fill the void left by Santa Barbara which had a total monopoly on a highly lucrative route.

Greetings from Cancun

Topic: RE: Santa Barbara's ATR Just Crashed In Venezuela
Username: Ogre727
Posted 2008-03-27 06:45:26 and read 7494 times.

To the guys who live in Venezuela, any news? at all?


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