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Topic: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: 777DEN
Posted 2008-04-05 17:51:45 and read 8953 times.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/15802720/detail.html

DENVER -- Beginning May 1, Frontier Airlines plans to start charging customers on most of its flights for snacks that were once free.

Frontier plans to offer five or six snacks on most flights for $3 each. Passengers will still be able to get a beverage free, and Denver-Costa Rica flights will still include a complimentary breakfast sandwich.

Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas said all airlines are looking for ways to save money as fuel costs soar. He said Frontier needs to offset catering costs to keep ticket prices lower.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: ShannoninAMA
Posted 2008-04-05 18:29:43 and read 8840 times.



Quoting 777DEN (Thread starter):


Frontier plans to offer five or six snacks on most flights for $3 each. Passengers will still be able to get a beverage free, and Denver-Costa Rica flights will still include a complimentary breakfast sandwich.

Looks like they are adjusting to the industry standard (Free drink, charge for snacks) on the majority of flights now. I doubt this will impact many people's airline choice when they book. Either way..Que the "F9 is Doomed" crowd.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Luv2fly
Posted 2008-04-05 18:31:55 and read 8822 times.

$3.00 sounds very resonable though no mention of what is being offered for sale.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: NZblue
Posted 2008-04-05 18:38:14 and read 8772 times.

Before everyone starts flaming this latest action, let me say that Frontier was looking into this LONG before oil is where it is now, and LONG before this week's recent airline foldings.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2008-04-05 18:43:52 and read 8748 times.

Well, I have heard these will be high quality, non perishable items.

Honestly, I'd rather fork over a few bucks for something decent than a small bag of pretzels or peanuts that some airlines offer. I know some will criticize F9 for this, but hey, they are doing what they have to to keep the revenue flowing. Also, it looks like Sean Menke is indeed bringing more of the "Air Canada" way of doing things to F9 in terms of charging passengers for extras.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AFKLMLHLX
Posted 2008-04-05 18:45:37 and read 8737 times.

Wow, this is a blow. Frontier was my favorite airline in the US because I thought their catering was so innovative and interesting. They offered Lamar's donuts and pizza sticks and cookies. I have always wanted to fly them. I just checked their website and they got rid of the donuts and everything. So, I guess now when I see Frontier as an option, I really won't care about flying them that much, even though I still love their interiors and exteriors. Maybe when they start charing they'll bring back some of those options. I have been looking for pictures of the donuts and pizza sticks but I haven't found any on airlinemeals.net or off of anywhere else. Does anybody have them?

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2008-04-05 18:47:19 and read 8724 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
They offered Lamar's donuts and pizza sticks and cookies.

Those have been gone for a little while now.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: National757
Posted 2008-04-05 18:53:00 and read 8699 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
Wow, this is a blow. Frontier was my favorite airline in the US because I thought their catering was so innovative and interesting.

Does Greyhound give out Free Snacks? No, and neither should airlines. Airlines are in the transportation business, transporting passengers from point A to point B.

I see this as a very positive move that should benefit FRNT's shareholders and hopefully generate some ancillary revenue. At $3 a snack, they aren't exactly raking in cash hand over fist, but these days with $110/barrel oil, a little bit goes a long way.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-05 18:54:05 and read 8683 times.

There's a long article in the Denver Post - with DP testers trying the product, and giving (generally) very good reviews:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/travel/2...will-soon-start-charging-for-food/

It is called "Griswald's Gourmet Cafe" and each pack has a guarantee from Griswald:

"If not completely satisfied, return the unused portion - and I'll eat it."  Smile

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AFKLMLHLX
Posted 2008-04-05 18:58:30 and read 8648 times.



Quoting National757 (Reply 7):
Does Greyhound give out Free Snacks? No, and neither should airlines. Airlines are in the transportation business, transporting passengers from point A to point B.

It's funny because somebody just asked me today why I still like flying when airlines don't even give any food. I don't care if they give me food or if they don't, but I especially like Frontier's catering. I thought it was really unique. And, that isn't the view people should have of airlines. Flights are much more about getting from point A to B. One of my favorite flights was on UA 3 where i got no meal and basically nothing and yet I stilled loved it. Every flight is different. I would much prefer a unique meal than just a bland one or no meal at all. I am not one of these people who complains like an old man about how they don't give ya' anything anymore, but the more service an airline has, the better. That's what makes the airlines such an interesting hobby and industry. There is no fascination with the bus industry and yet, there are people who will fly all the way to NRT just to spot planes. There is obviously something about it that is more than point A to Point B.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Dvincent
Posted 2008-04-05 18:58:37 and read 8648 times.

$3 is also less than what other airlines charge for their snacks. It's very impulse buy at that point.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: National757
Posted 2008-04-05 19:15:19 and read 8588 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 9):
There is no fascination with the bus industry

A few A.net members in Non-Av would disagree with you.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 9):
There is obviously something about it that is more than point A to Point B.

For some, yes Aviation is more than point A to point B. Heck I wouldn't be a member of this website if I didn't think there was more to civil aviation than transporting passengers or cargo from point A to point B. However I realize after watching a few airlines collapse this past week, airlines need to be aggressive in pricing and maximizing revenue if they want to survive, let along be profitable.

Frontier's catering still looks to be unique, but is it worth paying for? Ultimately the flying public will decide. Would you pay for a meal on Frontier?

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: JetMARC
Posted 2008-04-05 19:51:44 and read 8494 times.

This is stupid. We offer "free snacks" on our flights, but do you honestly think they are still "free"... no, they are included in the ticket price!! All airlines should just add $1 - $3 to the ticket price, give out "free snacks" and all the passengers continue to think "ooh, wow! FREE snacks - what service, what a great airline!" This way, the airline will still make additional revenue regardless of whether passengers purchase an onboard snack or not.

Even if the ticket price is a few dollars more than Southwest or United, passengers can view this as 'premium service'.... I was under the impression people will pay a few bucks more to fly jetBlue or VA for the better onboard service and ammenities - this would be the same for Frontier. People these days are willing to spend a few extra bucks for better service, not always just the cheapest ticket.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: HowSwedeitis
Posted 2008-04-05 19:52:49 and read 8493 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 9):
There is no fascination with the bus industry

I agree, I LOVE aviation, and airplanes are #1 in my world  cloudnine ; but I am fascinated with transportation as a whole. I think there are a lot of A-nutters who love not just planes, but trains, cars, buses, boats, ect. ect. I for one am a fan on all in the transpo-industry.

-HSII

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-05 20:02:43 and read 8459 times.



Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
This is stupid.

Actually, Frontier has been doing test flights with these snacks, and it's been very successful. The passengers seem to love it.

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Floridaflyboy
Posted 2008-04-05 20:15:21 and read 8395 times.

Okay, I've always been a Frontier supporter. But, a few months ago when people started talking about Frontier going ala carte, I said the day they start nickle and diming me is the day I stop flying them. I guess that day is today. On the routes I fly, they're rarely the cheapest, and they're rarely the most convenient, but I fly them because their product is the best. This puts them on par with the other carriers that I can choose from, but they're still a step down in convenience and price. So, I guess in the future, I'll be going back to NW.

[Edited 2008-04-05 20:15:59]

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AFKLMLHLX
Posted 2008-04-05 20:36:48 and read 8299 times.



Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 13):
who love not just planes, but trains, cars, buses, boats, ect. ect. I for one am a fan on all in the transpo-industry.

Well, I am obsessed with trains. I love urban transport. I am less interested in classic rail. I like learning about subway systems and NJ transit and LIRR and RER type systems. I really like cars as well, and that is something which is a common interest of many and I love boats too. You're right, I probably should not have said that about buses but out of all transport, I really see buses as being the smallest interest as I don't know what there is to know about buses besides I guess if you want to own an RV or something. I know it is just my opinion, but planes, trains, cars, and boats are much more hobbies, interests and real industries where as buses are very narrow in range on a hobby/industry level.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2008-04-05 20:43:12 and read 8271 times.



Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
This is stupid. We offer "free snacks" on our flights, but do you honestly think they are still "free"... no, they are included in the ticket price!! All airlines should just add $1 - $3 to the ticket price, give out "free snacks" and all the passengers continue to think "ooh, wow! FREE snacks - what service, what a great airline!" This way, the airline will still make additional revenue regardless of whether passengers purchase an onboard snack or not.

Even if the ticket price is a few dollars more than Southwest or United, passengers can view this as 'premium service'.... I was under the impression people will pay a few bucks more to fly jetBlue or VA for the better onboard service and ammenities - this would be the same for Frontier. People these days are willing to spend a few extra bucks for better service, not always just the cheapest ticket.

This is all part of the un-bundling of services that is going on in the industry now. Those who just want the cheapest fare (probably a majority of passengers at this point) don't care if they get free snacks or not - to them the seat is merely a commodity. Sure they will bitch and moan and complain about how airlines are nickel and diming them, but rest assured, if that airline is offering the cheapest fare the next week, you'll see them in the seat.

Airlines have called the passenger's bluff. The unbundling of services actually makes a lot of sense and has worked wonders for AC. If you're a frequent flier who shows loyalty to the airline, the airline will shower you with various goodies (Economy + on UA, free food on other airlines, multiple bag check in, occasional first class upgrades etc). If you're loyal to the airline, the airline will be loyal to you. If you're just looking to get yourself the cheapest fare, well the airline doesn't really need your business that badly nor can they afford it at $110 barrel oil. Besides, there are millions more of Joe Cheapskate, and if he wants to fly another airline because their fare was cheaper that day, Tom Cheapskate will be more than happy to have the seat instead.

As an aside, I know there will some that will flame me and say "But I PAY for First!" That's wonderful. None of these policies will affect you. And you're a very distinct minority anyways.

Just my  twocents 

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AFKLMLHLX
Posted 2008-04-05 21:27:29 and read 8190 times.



Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
This is stupid. We offer "free snacks" on our flights, but do you honestly think they are still "free"... no, they are included in the ticket price!! All airlines should just add $1 - $3 to the ticket price, give out "free snacks" and all the passengers continue to think "ooh, wow! FREE snacks - what service, what a great airline!" This way, the airline will still make additional revenue regardless of whether passengers purchase an onboard snack or not.

It's so funny as I do think about that sometimes. And yet for some reason, it is still complementary. When people pay like 500 more dollars to fly domestic first instead of economy, they are really only paying 20-40 extra bucks as the meal service costs no more than that and drinks aren't that much more either. Yet, people still buy them. I know that when I upgraded to F on CO, it cost me 450 bucks instead of the 8,000 one way ticket price. However, even my 450$ is probably much more than it costs for all of the services on my flight. I guess if you think strictly in monetary value, then fare prices make no sense. But, it is what it is and I will always take the cheaper fare, but if I have a couple of choices, I am very educated on the service of most airlines on any particular route so that will definitely be a factor. And honestly, airlines are adding 1-3$ on the ticket price anyway regardless. The airlines are deregulated. There is no fullproof fare structure. Whatever shows up on kayak or expedia or any website, is the price. Some websites are cheaper than others. I just go strictly by what I see, and have no way of knowing what any policy is because some flights are really expensive and others going to the same place offering more service are less.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: F9Animal
Posted 2008-04-05 23:09:03 and read 8020 times.

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
Wow, this is a blow. Frontier was my favorite airline in the US because I thought their catering was so innovative and interesting. They offered Lamar's donuts and pizza sticks and cookies

Okay....

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
I have always wanted to fly them.

Okay...

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
So, I guess now when I see Frontier as an option, I really won't care about flying them that much, even though I still love their interiors and exteriors

I thought you said you always wanted to fly them? Now you really won't care to fly them that much? I am trying to understand your position here.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 4):
Well, I have heard these will be high quality, non perishable items.

Honestly, I'd rather fork over a few bucks for something decent than a small bag of pretzels or peanuts that some airlines offer. I know some will criticize F9 for this, but hey, they are doing what they have to to keep the revenue flowing. Also, it looks like Sean Menke is indeed bringing more of the "Air Canada" way of doing things to F9 in terms of charging passengers for extras.

Glad to see there will be a variety of snacks to choose from. I have never had a problem paying a few bucks to get something I wanted, rather than getting what was the only thing being served. Most airlines are going to this option, and I do not see it as a bad thing. Come on now, a small bag of chips or pretzels is not going to hit the spot when I have a hunger pain on a 2.5 hour flight. Charging for extras was a long time coming, and many airlines have started doing this. It amazes me that so many have cut out meals all together. If you can't afford $3.00, then you can pack yourself a sandwich.


edit: This was a long time coming by the way. It has been talked about for some time now. It has also gotten kudos during the tests.

[Edited 2008-04-05 23:10:09]

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Nosedive
Posted 2008-04-05 23:24:48 and read 7992 times.



Quoting National757 (Reply 7):
Does Greyhound give out Free Snacks? No, and neither should airlines. Airlines are in the transportation business, transporting passengers from point A to point B.

While I mostly agree, the issue is brand identity. F9 is willing to "cheapen the brand" for a better bottom line. Financially smart, damn shame I don't like it  Sad But it's not my airline to run.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):

It is called "Griswald's Gourmet Cafe" and each pack has a guarantee from Griswald:

So now I understand why F9 was down on Larimer yest: snack testing. Free snacks on my way to class. The Chedder crackers were the best.

Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
Even if the ticket price is a few dollars more than Southwest or United, passengers can view this as 'premium service'.... I was under the impression people will pay a few bucks more to fly jetBlue or VA for the better onboard service and ammenities - this would be the same for Frontier. People these days are willing to spend a few extra bucks for better service, not always just the cheapest ticket.

The question is, how many people are willing to pay more versus "average Joe Savabuk"? Airline prices are rather elastic, and F9's hoping to pick up additional revenue on board. Now, if their fares are still the highest, and all you have is pay-TV and pay snacks, it will probably leave a bad taste in the consumer's mouth. "Why must I pay for everything?"

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 18):
It's so funny as I do think about that sometimes. And yet for some reason, it is still complementary. When people pay like 500 more dollars to fly domestic first instead of economy, they are really only paying 20-40 extra bucks as the meal service costs no more than that and drinks aren't that much more either.

Ummmmmmmmmm............... you do realize that $500 fares allow you do have your $20 "subsidised" fare, yes?

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 18):
I guess if you think strictly in monetary value, then fare prices make no sense. But, it is what it is and I will always take the cheaper fare, but if I have a couple of choices, I am very educated on the service of most airlines on any particular route so that will definitely be a factor.

And when everyone takes the cheapest option, no one makes a profit. Some people have more pressing matters, and thus they are willing to pay more. Besides, if you're so educated, why wouldn't you want to fly on a better product, or a better time table, as compared to be a "Joe Savabuk?"

Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 18):
I just go strictly by what I see, and have no way of knowing what any policy is because some flights are really expensive and others going to the same place offering more service are less.

OK, really expensive I can understand. Damn shame $110 a barrel is going to take you $20 subsidy away from you, as its not sustainable. Gotta pay for fuel, pilots, FAs, ground crew, CSAs, landing fees, maintenance crews, parts, etc somehow. How do you do it all at $150 rt?

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: SkyGourmet
Posted 2008-04-06 04:42:50 and read 7827 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 5):
I have been looking for pictures of the donuts and pizza sticks but I haven't found any on airlinemeals.net or off of anywhere else. Does anybody have them?




This was on a F9 flight I took in 2006 (SFO-DEN-PHL).  yummy 

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Orion737
Posted 2008-04-06 05:01:25 and read 7763 times.

Something else to blame on oil prices! I assume its 'snacks' are the usual pre-packed salty or sugared rubbish offered on most US domestics. The type of foodstufff with 20 year sell by dates!!

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-06 05:06:31 and read 7743 times.



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 22):
Something else to blame on oil prices! I assume its 'snacks' are the usual pre-packed salty or sugared rubbish offered on most US domestics. The type of foodstufff with 20 year sell by dates!!

Perhaps if you read the link in post #8, you would see that your assumption is wrong. Here's a hint, from the article:

"They’re not as fun to eat as other brands of animal crackers because they lack a great deal of sugar. That’s probably a good thing in the long-run."

Note - they lack a great deal of sugar.

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: JayDub
Posted 2008-04-06 05:22:21 and read 7677 times.



Quoting Nosedive (Reply 20):
F9 is willing to "cheapen the brand" for a better bottom line.

Let's see what they are offering for your three bucks before calling it "cheapening the brand".

KingCavalier...any sneak peeks?

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Orion737
Posted 2008-04-06 05:30:22 and read 7644 times.

I agree its cheapening the brand, and it wont be 'food' they are offering. Snacks, we all know what that is, use by date 2030!

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Xtoler
Posted 2008-04-06 07:33:15 and read 7233 times.



Quoting National757 (Reply 7):
Does Greyhound give out Free Snacks? No, and neither should airlines. Airlines are in the transportation business, transporting passengers from point A to point B.

Greyhound or WN? I'm a logistician by trade, but there are differences in ground as opposed to air transportation. Actually, if you go by ground transportation, you have

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 13):


Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 9):
There is no fascination with the bus industry

I agree, I LOVE aviation, and airplanes are #1 in my world ; but I am fascinated with transportation as a whole. I think there are a lot of A-nutters who love not just planes, but trains, cars, buses, boats, ect. ect. I for one am a fan on all in the transpo-industry.

I'm someone who tries to understand transportation as a whole. One of these days I can get a ring from the Sociaty of Logistics Engineers and then I can go head to head with my dad.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2008-04-06 07:42:40 and read 7155 times.



Quoting Dvincent (Reply 10):
$3 is also less than what other airlines charge for their snacks. It's very impulse buy at that point

NW charges two for the snacks and five for sandwhiches and large snack boxes that include several snacks.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: JetMARC
Posted 2008-04-06 07:53:40 and read 7069 times.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
Actually, Frontier has been doing test flights with these snacks, and it's been very successful. The passengers seem to love it.

I'm sure they do love it. But they would love it even more if it was "free" but still paid for in their ticket price. Its all about perception...

I do agree that passengers should pay for what they want or use... but its a toss up. Either be considered cheap for charging for snacks... or actually charge a few extra bucks in the ticket price and give the snacks out for "free"... either way, the cost is being taken care of but perception of the service being provided is remarkedly different.

But oh well, I want Frontier to do what they have to do to get better. As one of my favorite airlines, I really hope things start looking up...

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AFKLMLHLX
Posted 2008-04-06 08:25:02 and read 6836 times.

I love to search up airline fares in general, and I will compare services vs. prices when I really need to book something for a trip, but I am not going to ask myself, "Is this the price because they are charging extra money for a snack?" Usually, whenever F9 has even come up in my travel plans, it is not more expensive. For me, it works on a couple different levels. First, the time has to be in range and secondly, the best option is for it to leave from EWR. I like going to JFK (I've never been to LGA to fly out of but I've been inside and it's only okay) but when I fly with my family or alone or whomever else, I'm not paying. So, if I can find a flight to EWR that's good and not that much more expensive, my parents are not going to entertain going to JFK for whatever other reason. Then, it comes down to service and FF miles. Although I like CO, I like flying on UA better and UA doesn't even offer free meals. Usually, I will have to connect if it is UA, but it is usually cheaper and I get miles on them as well.

Here is a great example. When I was looking at flights to HKG, immedietly, it came up on all websites that CO was the cheapest option miraculously. It was 878 USD including taxes at the time which I booked. The price later went down about 60 USD. However, the flight was leaving at 3PM and I looked at other options. I went directly on the CX website and found that for 1100USD including taxes, we could fly from JFK. I consulted my family, and I said how it might be worth flying on them as the flight leaves at 10 AM and we would get a more interesting meal and better service in Y. BUt then I thought, the meal will probably only be a couple extra bucks for them, and the service will be better service but is it worth it? We would get to HKG much earlier (as it showed our flight from EWR was delayed five hours) but we wouldn't earn any FF miles on a flight that earns 16,000. We would also not have the option of upgrading to Business or First on CX. So, we came to the consensus that we will fly CO, get in later and have the possibility of an upgrade. It turns out, we all got upgraded on the outbound flight so, we actually recieved much better service in F than we ever would have in CX Y. Also, the flight was delayed so they gave us back 200USD and then gave us 10% off of a future flight. On the way home, CO Y was well...CO Y. But, we got AVOD which we would not have gotten on CX. CX's IFE is good, but CO's was much better as we got lucky.

So, I am not Joe Cheapo or whatever else somebody called me. I really think about my options and then chose one. I love air travel and I have a deep interest in it, so I am not one who would just fly the lowest of the low and then complain because I love flying. All I care about is that the airline has uniqueness to them and good branding. I don't care if they charge, but in F9's case, I just thought it was a nice amenity that they had.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-06 08:26:31 and read 6817 times.



Quoting National757 (Reply 7):
Does Greyhound give out Free Snacks? No, and neither should airlines. Airlines are in the transportation business, transporting passengers from point A to point B.

Well considering that the experience of flying was always considered a much better experience than an FREAKIN greyhound bus ride, I'd say YEAH airlines should give out free snacks or at least the illusion of free snacks in form of a $3 increase in ticket prices. Passengers won't even notice. It surprises me that some people will defend the airlines to their grave, regardless of what the airlines do. It's OK if airlines do something wrong

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Azstar
Posted 2008-04-06 08:41:22 and read 6712 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
Well considering that the experience of flying was always considered a much better experience than an FREAKIN greyhound bus ride, I'd say YEAH airlines should give out free snacks or at least the illusion of free snacks in form of a $3 increase in ticket prices. Passengers won't even notice. It surprises me that some people will defend the airlines to their grave, regardless of what the airlines do. It's OK if airlines do something wrong

I don't understand why you consider it "wrong" to charge $3.00 for a snack. You have the option of buying it, or not buying it. No one is forcing you to pay. If there were a $3.00 "snack surcharge" for every ticket people would be paying for a product they may, or may not, want.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: TxAgKuwait
Posted 2008-04-06 09:21:37 and read 6431 times.

A take on it from the resident WN apologist:

Frontier charging for snacks is not going to hurt them. It won't help all that much but it won't cause them any harm. Right now the legacies and the "upscale" LCCs are tripping over themselves trying to, as a previous poster so aptly put it, "nickel and dime their passengers."

The food cost for the $3 snack is probably a buck, if that. When you start to charge for them, the number of folks opting for a snack will decrease. So Frfontier wins by reducing the amount of snacks they have to buy and they win by generating a small amount of revenue for having sold them.

I agree with fuel prices being what they are, every little bit helps.

Frontier loses out, though, in the court of perception and good will. Charging for snacks is going to be one discriminator between them and someone else. It's just like assigned vs unassigned seats are a discriminator when you are looking at WN vs other carriers.

I doubt seriously that charging for a snack is going to alter somebody's booking philosophy. If they like Frontier, they are going to fly Frontier regardless of a charge for snacks. If they don't, they don't for some reasson other than the lack of free snacks.

Gordon Bethune once made the comment that it is possible to make a pizza so cheaply that nobody will buy it and eat it. That is what Frontier and its supporters really need to worry about. Where does all of this come to an end?

Airlines re scrambling right now trying to shave pennies from their costs all over the place to lessen the impact of significant fuel cost increases. That's the job of management. There is such a thing, though, as being penny wise and pound foolish.

The real loser here is the passenger. They are having amenities taken away that they have come to expect when they travel by air. That is not going to make them happy. The real winner, though, will be the carrier who figures out a way to continue offering amenities to the passengers (without charging for them).

Brand image and brand loyalty. Sometimes that's worth a whole lot. Managemen needs to be really careful when doing things like this that may ultimately negatively impact these things. Why did Skybus have such a negative image? They flew airplanes, they moved people from point A to point B - ust like all the other airlines. On a.net you would have thought they were Satan incarnate.

Their problem was their product was so cheap and tacky that they became the object of ridicule. That is a risk that Frontier, and any other carrier that starts to reduce amenities or begin charging for them, runs.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-06 11:59:00 and read 5655 times.

Quoting JetMARC (Reply 28):
I'm sure they do love it. But they would love it even more if it was "free" but still paid for in their ticket price.


Of course, they would. All of us would prefer to get fabulous five course dinners for free.

Then I woke up.

I would rather see Frontier healthy - and profitable.

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 32):
That is what Frontier and its supporters really need to worry about.

I think that is being a bit extreme. Frontier has some way to go before it catches up with several of the majors in menu pricing.

I see that Continental has just joined the other majors in charging for a second bag, for example.

mariner

[Edited 2008-04-06 12:01:14]

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2008-04-06 12:00:41 and read 5679 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 29):

Here is a great example. When I was looking at flights to HKG, immedietly, it came up on all websites that CO was the cheapest option miraculously. It was 878 USD including taxes at the time which I booked. The price later went down about 60 USD. However, the flight was leaving at 3PM and I looked at other options. I went directly on the CX website and found that for 1100USD including taxes, we could fly from JFK. I consulted my family, and I said how it might be worth flying on them as the flight leaves at 10 AM and we would get a more interesting meal and better service in Y. BUt then I thought, the meal will probably only be a couple extra bucks for them, and the service will be better service but is it worth it? We would get to HKG much earlier (as it showed our flight from EWR was delayed five hours) but we wouldn't earn any FF miles on a flight that earns 16,000. We would also not have the option of upgrading to Business or First on CX. So, we came to the consensus that we will fly CO, get in later and have the possibility of an upgrade. It turns out, we all got upgraded on the outbound flight so, we actually recieved much better service in F than we ever would have in CX Y. Also, the flight was delayed so they gave us back 200USD and then gave us 10% off of a future flight. On the way home, CO Y was well...CO Y. But, we got AVOD which we would not have gotten on CX. CX's IFE is good, but CO's was much better as we got lucky.

So, I am not Joe Cheapo or whatever else somebody called me.

Don't take this personally (as it's a pretty consistent trend among lots of passengers), but it's a bit comical that in your post to prove that you're not Joe Cheapskate, you ended up buying the ticket with the cheapest price and the free upgrade.
 Big grin

That you considered the other options didn't really mean a whole lot to the airline that was offering the better product but at a higher price (in this case, CX). I once "considered" buying a Bentley, but I decided against it, once I took a look at the sticker price.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2008-04-06 12:38:23 and read 5451 times.

I think this is probably a good idea for F9 to start doing this, this is now becoming more of an industry standard by charging pax for snacks. Hopefully, F9 will beat out the other carrier's products by providing more of a staple than the cheap crap that the other airlines provide currently, but we will just have to see. I have not been on any F9 flights lately, but I will be flying on F9 this April 24-16th to SAN. So we will see if I get on one of the flights that is being tested.

But, will the Terra Blue chips still be complimentary? Those chips are so so good!

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 15):
I said the day they start nickle and diming me is the day I stop flying them.

They are not nickle and diming you as you state. This is becoming an industry standard. I cannot believe you are whining like a baby about $3. Compare that with the other carriers that charge $5.75-$10 for a simple snack box, namely from LSG SkyChefs. Whatcha complaining about?!

Quoting JayDub (Reply 24):
Let's see what they are offering for your three bucks before calling it "cheapening the brand".

 checkmark  We don't even know what is being offered yet, I don't think. And even if we do know, we have not seen the reviews yet, nor how they really taste. But I do agree with your statement, Jay.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
Snacks, we all know what that is, use by date 2030!

Obviously, you have not seen the use by date on the Buy-On-Board meals from LSG SkyChefs. They expire in two weeks.

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 32):

Tx has a pretty good point.....

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: TheGreatChecko
Posted 2008-04-06 13:13:04 and read 5269 times.

Those of you who think that a $3 fare increase "would not be noticed" are forgetting how price conscious people are these days. For the vast majority of travelers, if F9 was $3 more expensive than UA, they will fly on UA.

Onboard service, ontime performance, etc, are only a concern to frequent travelers. Sadly, these are the same passengers who are usually so high on the crack that are frequent flyer miles that they will overlook almost every service failure because they are elites and get their free upgrades.

Every airline is trying to find ways to get additional revenue from their passengers. Be it charging for snacks like F9 or charging for additional legroom like B6. I think airlines would love to give free snacks and even meals, the problem is that people just aren't willing to pay for those things anymore.

If you want service to improve, stop looking for the cheapest fare and start buying tickets on airlines that give you what you want. Unfortunately, what most people want is a cheap fare and darn the consequences.

Checko

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Frontierflyer
Posted 2008-04-06 13:52:09 and read 5080 times.

In my case I do not book a ticket based on what is going to be served on board. If I'm hungry I just eat before and that is final. I can see where it could look bad when you are charging for direct tv and then charging for snacks but its not like they are forcing you to buy. It might take a while but I can see the American consumer getting used to this.
I do miss those hot bagels with cream cheese they served a couple years ago though.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-06 13:54:09 and read 5080 times.



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 36):
Unfortunately, what most people want is a cheap fare and darn the consequences.

I guess one could say that the pax are nickel and diming the airlines.  Smile

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Dvincent
Posted 2008-04-06 17:01:14 and read 4394 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 27):
NW charges two for the snacks and five for sandwhiches and large snack boxes that include several snacks.

Hm, thanks for that. I knew only of the $5 snack box on NW, if they have a less expensive option then that's great.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: KELPkid
Posted 2008-04-06 17:14:21 and read 4351 times.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
It is called "Griswald's Gourmet Cafe" and each pack has a guarantee from Griswald:

"If not completely satisfied, return the unused portion - and I'll eat it."

How can Griswald do that since he's been sold off? (N801FR is due to leave the fleet...)  Wink Will we have a new 'Gris' soon?
 eyebrow 

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):

Note - they lack a great deal of sugar.

However, being a carbohydrate-laden snack, they are one step away from conversion to sugar within your body  Smile (I'd say something about balancing carb intake with proteins, but this isn't a nutrition forum  Wink ).

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-06 17:44:58 and read 4236 times.



Quoting Azstar (Reply 31):

I don't understand why you consider it "wrong" to charge $3.00 for a snack. You have the option of buying it, or not buying it. No one is forcing you to pay. If there were a $3.00 "snack surcharge" for every ticket people would be paying for a product they may, or may not, want.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
airlines should give out free snacks or at least the illusion of free snacks in form of a $3 increase in ticket prices. Passengers won't even notice.

The airlines don't even have to post "Snack Surcharge". If they raise their price for the ticket (the costs of the snacks) then Joe Schmo isn't going to notice. I never said anyone was "forcing me to pay" The point I was making was that flying typically isn't compared to riding in a Greyhound bus, it's usually a more pleasurable experience. It's just gotten out of control if you ask me. It almost seems like it's getting to the point where the only people who can have a pleasurable flying experience, are those who are wealthy enough to fly business or first, and that to me is fundamentally wrong.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: OnAClearDay
Posted 2008-04-06 17:58:43 and read 4165 times.



Quoting 777DEN (Thread starter):
Frontier Airlines plans to start charging customers on most of its flights for snacks that were once free.

This quote from the media is inaccurate. The 'buy on board' snacks that F9 will offer have never before been available on f9 flights--except, obviously, during the test flights a couple of weeks ago.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 22):
I assume its 'snacks' are the usual pre-packed salty or sugared rubbish offered on most US domestics.



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
I agree its cheapening the brand, and it wont be 'food' they are offering. Snacks, we all know what that is, use by date 2030!

Check out mountainmannut (dot com). It offers a look at the type of products that F9 will offer, and it lists nutrition information as well. Also, the plan is to phase in sandwiches (type and provider not yet announced).


And SkyGourmet, thanks so much for the pics of Lamar's donuts and the cheesy bread sticks and marinara sauce! I was one of the few people who actually liked the marinara sauce. Only problem was when I would drop one of the packets on the galley floor. TOMATO SAUCE EXPLOSION. And you might be surprised how many people turned down the free donuts. I routinely had three or four boxes (!) left over--and they had to be trashed.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: National757
Posted 2008-04-06 18:14:13 and read 4119 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 41):
The airlines don't even have to post "Snack Surcharge". If they raise their price for the ticket (the costs of the snacks) then Joe Schmo isn't going to notice.

It's not that simple. Joe Schmo won't notice, but I bet F9 will sure notice when pax go with other airlines. If UA charges $297 for a fare and F9 charges $300, I bet a majority of average pax will book with UA.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 41):
It almost seems like it's getting to the point where the only people who can have a pleasurable flying experience, are those who are wealthy enough to fly business or first, and that to me is fundamentally wrong.

Why? Business and First are paying for the extra service and amenities in addition to getting from point A to point B. Economy Pax are paying to get from point A to point B safely. Why should airlines deliver free food to passengers? I mean the oil companies don't give airlines free jet fuel. Airlines aren't charities that can bestow free food, drinks, and other amenities to their pax without worrying about the cost of providing such services.

You are going to have to get used to paying for services that used to be complimentary...that is unless somehow the price of oil decreases by $50 Dollars a barrel and/or consumers decide to actually pay a little more for service instead of shopping around for the lowest possible airfare.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirNZ
Posted 2008-04-06 18:17:55 and read 4101 times.



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
I agree its cheapening the brand, and it wont be 'food' they are offering. Snacks, we all know what that is, use by date 2030!

Wait up, you've lost me here. In reply 22 you had no idea and clearly assumed what they would be serving, so how come three replies later you say you agree it's cheapening the brand.......how do you ascertain that without flying them to try the new snacks????

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirNZ
Posted 2008-04-06 18:28:51 and read 4076 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
Well considering that the experience of flying was always considered a much better experience than an FREAKIN greyhound bus ride, I'd say YEAH airlines should give out free snacks or at least the illusion of free snacks in form of a $3 increase in ticket prices. Passengers won't even notice. It surprises me that some people will defend the airlines to their grave, regardless of what the airlines do. It's OK if airlines do something wrong

Okay, tell me why in your opinion the airlines SHOULD give out free snacks if "considering that the experience of flying was always considered a much better experience than a FREAKIN greyhound bus ride"? Other than your capitalisation really doing nothing for your post, I'd also say that using your profile age you actually would have no idea, or experience, of what airline travel was like back in the days when it was completely different than today.
So, please enlighten us as to what 'experience' you are basing your insistence on that airlines should provide everything free (unless of course you are purely swayed by perception in everything).

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2008-04-06 18:35:35 and read 4060 times.



Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
This is stupid. We offer "free snacks" on our flights, but do you honestly think they are still "free"... no, they are included in the ticket price!! All airlines should just add $1 - $3 to the ticket price, give out "free snacks" and all the passengers continue to think "ooh, wow! FREE snacks - what service, what a great airline!" This way, the airline will still make additional revenue regardless of whether passengers purchase an onboard snack or not.

In theory, a great idea. In reality, it won't work. There is no vacuum. You can't force your competitors to raise their prices, and you can't expect customers to oggle over FREE snacks - they are going with the lowest fare first to a large degree.

Quoting JetMARC (Reply 12):
Even if the ticket price is a few dollars more than Southwest or United, passengers can view this as 'premium service'.... I was under the impression people will pay a few bucks more to fly jetBlue or VA for the better onboard service and ammenities - this would be the same for Frontier. People these days are willing to spend a few extra bucks for better service, not always just the cheapest ticket.

I'm more under the impression that people aren't necessarily doing so. VA is offering lower fares and losing lots of money. Remember MRTC on American? They had the same idea you had - offer a better product and collect a fare premium - but they yanked it out when they realized it didn't work. I remember booking a transcon flight and wanting to enjoy their MRTC. Unfortunately, at the time the "low fare" was only offered on flights through STL that didn't have MRTC. Did I want to pay a fare premium for the two of us to enjoy MRTC? Nope. I figured the extra $60 bucks or so would be better spent on something else.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 15):
On the routes I fly, they're rarely the cheapest, and they're rarely the most convenient, but I fly them because their product is the best. This puts them on par with the other carriers that I can choose from, but they're still a step down in convenience and price. So, I guess in the future, I'll be going back to NW.

So the $3 snack box is forcing you to change airlines? Interesting.

-Dave

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-06 19:13:45 and read 4014 times.



Quoting National757 (Reply 43):
I mean the oil companies don't give airlines free jet fuel. Airlines aren't charities that can bestow free food, drinks, and other amenities to their pax without worrying about the cost of providing such services.

No but until recently majority of airlines gave complimentary snacks and a drink. If oil is going to continue to force airlines to keep charging for every possible convenience and 'amenity', then what will happen? I understand your point to a degree, what I am saying is tho airlines are charging cheap fares, they ain't exactly offering much either.

Quoting National757 (Reply 43):
You are going to have to get used to paying for services that used to be complimentary...that is unless somehow the price of oil decreases by $50 Dollars a barrel and/or consumers decide to actually pay a little more for service instead of shopping around for the lowest possible airfare.

I agree with you here, but again, I just think the whole oil cost thing is really diving the airline industry (at least here in the states) into Greyhound buses of the sky, which is sad considering how it used to be to fly.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: FreequentFlier
Posted 2008-04-06 20:30:00 and read 3910 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 47):

No but until recently majority of airlines gave complimentary snacks and a drink. If oil is going to continue to force airlines to keep charging for every possible convenience and 'amenity', then what will happen?

Not much really. Some people will pay for them and some people won't. Some people will complain about being "nickel and dimed" until they look on orbitz and see that the airline they bashed is now charging the lowest price. And they'll book it.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: CB97
Posted 2008-04-06 20:34:46 and read 3906 times.

Perhaps comparing airlines to passenger trains would be more of an oranges to oranges debate than comparing them to the bus. Does Amtrak charge for snacks on board? VIA Rail does up here, and the pricing is pretty much in line with what the airlines are charging. Even on long haul trips, you only get a complimentary breakfast if you are in the sleeper cars so you either bring your own food or pay for a meal in the dining car.

Personally, I think the airlines are in the process of swinging a pendulum with the fares vs services and eventually it will come back to the middle ground. In the past, at the other extreme, you had airlines offering meal services by 5 star chefs on fancy china even in Y in an effort to win customers from other airlines. That was great for the passengers, not so great for the bottom line. Now we are at the other extreme where airlines are cutting services or charging for them because all the other airlines are too which is going to help the bottom line but is bad for the passengers. Eventually things will find a happy medium, just like a pendulum always returns to center. Well, in theory anyways, all bets are off depending on what the economy and oil does in the next 5 years or so...

 twocents 

CB

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: GayStudPilot
Posted 2008-04-06 20:47:28 and read 3883 times.

I think airlines should charge for this junk food. STOP OBESITY in America! I realize business flyers sometimes have little time to grab something to eat. However savvy ones who care about their health pack the right foods to eat. Nuts, fruit are very packable. There are even healthier choices in most airports now for those who understand appropriate portions and proper sat and trans fats, sodium, and sugar intake. Unless you're on an int'l or transcon, don't eat airline food! It can be tough, but a little education goes a long way!

Most airlines are charging $25 for an extra bag. I'm all for charging passengers for body weight -- a buck for each pound over 125.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-06 20:51:00 and read 3871 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):
Nuts, fruit are very packable.

I guess you haven't checked to see what Frontier is offering - such as nuts and fruit?

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2008-04-06 20:57:26 and read 3866 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):
I'm all for charging passengers for body weight -- a buck for each pound over 125.

Boy, I'd be screwed then.  Yeah sure

Quoting CB97 (Reply 49):
Does Amtrak charge for snacks on board?

Oh yes...you have to pay for all snacks in the Lounge Car and for all meals in the Dining Car...the only exception being if you are traveling in a Sleeper Car where meals are included in the price of the ticket. Also, Acela First Class passengers get free meals...and certain Business Class segments offer free drinks...but other than that, if you are in Coach, you pay.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Azstar
Posted 2008-04-06 23:36:09 and read 3763 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 47):
I agree with you here, but again, I just think the whole oil cost thing is really diving the airline industry (at least here in the states) into Greyhound buses of the sky, which is sad considering how it used to be to fly.

You can thank, or blame, Southwest Airlines for this phenomenon. Before they arrived on the scene, most people couldn't afford to fly.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: USAFHummer
Posted 2008-04-07 03:16:06 and read 3682 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):

Please tell me you are joking...

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: GayStudPilot
Posted 2008-04-07 07:30:30 and read 3593 times.



Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 54):
Please tell me you are joking...

About what?

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: TUiflyer
Posted 2008-04-07 07:49:13 and read 3562 times.

I think this is probably a good move by F9, they are realistically looking at their costs and adapting to survive. When it comes down to it the overwhelming majority of passengers will choose the LOWEST fare - not the airline with prettiest plane or the tastiest snacks.

You want a snack onboard - pay $3 and get a snack, chances are the fare will be lower as a result of this.

TUIflyer

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-07 07:57:11 and read 3551 times.



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 45):
Other than your capitalisation really doing nothing for your post, I'd also say that using your profile age you actually would have no idea, or experience, of what airline travel was like back in the days when it was completely different than today.

Attack me personally, now that contributes so much to the forum...We disagree on a particular issue, and you take it personally...why is that again???? Have a missed somewhere in the forum rules where it says you can treat me like a moron because of my age or lack of experience you think I have because we disagree???
First of all my father has over a million and a half miles of flying as a passenger. From the time I was born he was flying every single week all of the U.S./Europe/Asia. So don't act like because you have "years of age" on me I have no clue as to what the airline industry used to be like. I traveled all over the place with my family so I do have and idea of what air travel was like from the late 80's to now, and i have had many conversations with my parents and grandparents in how air travel used to be. I think the whole idea of airlines turning air travel into greyhound bus travel is sad, when air travel used to be so much more. I think its pathetically sad that people will defend the airlines stance no matter what.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-07 08:00:45 and read 3540 times.



Quoting Azstar (Reply 53):
You can thank, or blame, Southwest Airlines for this phenomenon. Before they arrived on the scene, most people couldn't afford to fly.

You're right  Sad

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: TheGreatChecko
Posted 2008-04-07 09:21:58 and read 3471 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):
I think airlines should charge for this junk food. STOP OBESITY in America! I realize business flyers sometimes have little time to grab something to eat. However savvy ones who care about their health pack the right foods to eat. Nuts, fruit are very packable. There are even healthier choices in most airports now for those who understand appropriate portions and proper sat and trans fats, sodium, and sugar intake. Unless you're on an int'l or transcon, don't eat airline food! It can be tough, but a little education goes a long way!

I'm going to repost the link for the benefit of those who don't want to read the previous posts:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/travel/2...will-soon-start-charging-for-food/

I do find it notable to mention they are offering a nut mix, a fruit and nut mix, and veggie chips...

As for charging people a dollar for every pound over 125, I don't think that's an airlines business. They sell seats not a BMI screenings. However, if a person needs two seats, they should be charged extra.

Checko

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-07 09:24:47 and read 3464 times.



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 59):
As for charging people a dollar for every pound over 125, I don't think that's an airlines business. They sell seats not a BMI screenings. However, if a person needs two seats, they should be charged extra.

 checkmark  I totally agree.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: KingCavalier
Posted 2008-04-07 09:33:42 and read 3452 times.

There's been a lot of talk about nickel and diming, but I've never expected food on any airline. I don't expect to get free popcorn at the movies. I don't expect to get a free hot dog at a ball game. I certainly don't expect to be served on Greyhoud. However, I do expect free food on a cruise, but even most of the cruise lines charge for sodas and alcohol.

Frontier doesn't expect Buy On Board to save the Company. It may make a few million in ancillary revenue, but Frontier will be SAVING millions by not providing free snacks.

From what I have seen the snacks are high quality, generous quantity and relatively healthy. Fresh food will be the next roll out, and that is something that I think most of you will find appetizing.

Big version: Width: 600 Height: 393 File size: 37kb
Frontier Buy on Board

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Max999
Posted 2008-04-07 09:45:26 and read 3423 times.



Quoting Azstar (Reply 53):
You can thank, or blame, Southwest Airlines for this phenomenon. Before they arrived on the scene, most people couldn't afford to fly.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 58):
You're right Sad

And thank goodness for Southwest and all the LCCs that came after it. The LCCs along with airline deregulation democratized air travel for everyone.

The benefits of accessible air travel to the global economy far outweighs any deterioration in airline service (free snacks included).

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: MSYtristar
Posted 2008-04-07 09:46:40 and read 3421 times.



Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 61):
I certainly don't expect to be served on Greyhoud.

Did you have to go there? Wink

Nice post, and nice picture.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-07 09:55:31 and read 3384 times.



Quoting Max999 (Reply 62):

The benefits of accessible air travel to the global economy far outweighs any deterioration in airline service (free snacks included).

This is also a good point.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: KingCavalier
Posted 2008-04-07 10:00:03 and read 3365 times.



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 63):
Did you have to go there?

I found your recent trip report that involved planes, trains and automobiles (Greyhound) very enlightening and entertaining. I hope your bus trip (experience) scratched that itch and you got that out of your system.

Unlike Frontier where passengers will be able to purchase snacks on board, MSYtristar did not have that option on Greyhound. MSYtristar and I had to make a stop at the Wal-Mart so he could load up on provisions before dropping him off at the downtown Denver Greyhound station for his trek back to Atlanta. Well, he only made it as far as Ft Worth when his bus broke down.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Xtoler
Posted 2008-04-07 10:11:18 and read 3348 times.



Quoting AFKLMLHLX (Reply 16):
I know it is just my opinion, but planes, trains, cars, and boats are much more hobbies, interests and real industries where as buses are very narrow in range on a hobby/industry level.

You'd be surprised what some people are into. I worked for a guy who was just as nuts over John Deere tractors as I am on aircraft. We used to make fun of each other over our interests. He was a helluva nice guy though, despite his John Deere fettish.

As far as F9 goes, they are still a great airline, and sometimes I think, maybe I should have taken their offer to be a F/A with them, I just didn't want to start over again and wind up on reserve. Plus, my wife was really getting tired of me flying for a living. F9 may not be a fit to all travellers. Usually we can get pretty good deals on them from here to ATL. I prefer them to FL or DL and I try to fly them if I can. I feel sort of bad because I have friends who work for DL and FL and I know I could get a hook up, but for my money, if I can hop a flight on F9 I would. Just too bad I can't get an F9 flight to RIC, then I'd be happy.

Another good advantage for me with F9 is they fit my schedule pretty well. I work from 2300 to 0730 Sunday night to Friday morning. I usually take Thursday nights/Friday nights off (that's my slow night and I don't mind someone filling in for me then, there's minimum to screw up). As soon as I get off work I'll take a couple RTD busses to the airport. By the time I get there I'm right on time to check in for the 1020 flight. Coming back on Sunday, I take the last flight out of ATL, and can get straight to work on RTD and still get to work about 30 minutes or so early. The cool thing about these trips, I take Denver's RTD busses to the airport. Fly to Atlanta. Then take 2 Marta trains from the airport to Indian Creek park and ride where my Father-in-Law picks me up the few miles back to his house, where there's a cold beer waiting for me. So, I take three different forms of public transportation all in one day! Kind of neat when you think about it. Even better, I don't have to pay to park at the airport and my wife meets me from home to the airport. Another plus is I don't have to drive I285 from the airport to Stone Mountain!

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Xtoler
Posted 2008-04-07 10:31:50 and read 3317 times.

I was just thinking (oh boy here we go). I wonder how much they'd charge if the snacks were a sleeve of crackers and your choice of either potted meat, vienna sauasages, and tuna salad? I carried that stuff with me when I was an F/A. My flight manager and some of the TSA screeners used to make fun of me for carrying those food items. All of those items you can get really cheap at the Dollar Tree.

Just an aside, for those Denver people on here, we bounce between King Soopers and the Dollar Tree for food. You can get some good deals. Albertson's let me down.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: DC10Widebody
Posted 2008-04-07 11:20:16 and read 3269 times.

This is not going to be the downfall of F9. Ten years ago AS had comp meals in Y and today you are lucky to end up with a pack of mini pretzels in Y even on flights to Mexico......with the exception of MEX and GDL I believe. Despite that they still have a very loyal following in SEA, and other west coast cities like PDX and LAX . Anyway people adjust, also I think people in my generation and younger are used to buying things ala carte and may not remember when airline food was free anyway. I would love to see the free lunch return to the skies, but this is the wave of the future for sure. If people are happy with the service and the fare that they paid, I would say that is a pretty successful operation and from what I hear F9 does that very well.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: PlanesNTrains
Posted 2008-04-07 12:05:46 and read 3231 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):
I think airlines should charge for this junk food. STOP OBESITY in America! I realize business flyers sometimes have little time to grab something to eat. However savvy ones who care about their health pack the right foods to eat. Nuts, fruit are very packable. There are even healthier choices in most airports now for those who understand appropriate portions and proper sat and trans fats, sodium, and sugar intake. Unless you're on an int'l or transcon, don't eat airline food! It can be tough, but a little education goes a long way!

Most airlines are charging $25 for an extra bag. I'm all for charging passengers for body weight -- a buck for each pound over 125.

If I buy a ticket on an airplane, I shouldn't have to worry about the food police. And as someone who is overweight, I don't need to be educated. I know if I stick a candy bar in my mouth that I'm not exactly eating right. It's called personal choice.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 57):
I think the whole idea of airlines turning air travel into greyhound bus travel is sad, when air travel used to be so much more. I think its pathetically sad that people will defend the airlines stance no matter what.

I've flown coach regularly since the '70's, and I just don't see a huge difference in how air travel is today versus then. I don't have to worry about losing my paper ticket (which I did with Western in Anchorage once), I seldom have "bad" service, and the options and pricing are much more varied than they used to be. I wish I had had those great, romantic, utopian air travel experiences that some of you enjoyed. I did like some of the food on Alaska, and 2-4-3 on a 747 and 2-4-2 on a DC-10 was nice, but overall, I guess I'm missing the big change.

Greyhound of the skies? Frontier as IFE. JetBlue has IFE. Virgin America has IFE. Others are adding it. Or XM. Buy On Board is a great way of getting what you pay for. Why should GayStudPilot pay for me to shove a pile of junk in my mouth? Virgin has massage chairs in First. If I want to pay for business/first, I can. When I ride Amtrak, it is exactly the same - and very enjoyable. If I want something to eat or drink, I go to the diner/lounge and pay for it.

Paying for a $3 snack? I can't believe we are even complaining about it. It's not that big of a deal, and there are some decent eateries at airports now. I like the personal choice aspect.

-Dave

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Surfrider1978
Posted 2008-04-07 12:20:49 and read 3207 times.

whats next:

- insert quarters to use the lav

- $5 waste fee

- $2 potable water charge

- .50 per sheet of t.p.

better yet, to save fuel costs, hook a rope and have all the passengers pull the plane to the runway

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2008-04-07 12:35:59 and read 3179 times.



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 50):
I'm all for charging passengers for body weight -- a buck for each pound over 125.

I dont know if you are REALLY a pilot, but obviously, you have no idea how weight and balance is calculated..... And your idea is ridiculous!

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 61):

Hey, those look pretty cool! Thanks for that pic!

Quoting Xtoler (Reply 67):
King Soopers

King Sooper's is a great place! Beats Basha's in Arizona.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: Mariner
Posted 2008-04-07 12:36:04 and read 3181 times.



Quoting Surfrider1978 (Reply 70):
better yet, to save fuel costs, hook a rope and have all the passengers pull the plane to the runway

As in the other thread, your beef appears to be with airlines in general.

Frontier is a very late arrival at this party.

mariner

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: EA772LR
Posted 2008-04-07 14:22:30 and read 3118 times.



Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 69):
Greyhound of the skies? Frontier as IFE. JetBlue has IFE. Virgin America has IFE. Others are adding it. Or XM. Buy On Board is a great way of getting what you pay for.

These are good points. I was really thinking in terms of the U.S. legacy carriers. The new LCC airlines like B6 and F9 are a step up from even the Legacy carriers in Y class. My remarks above were thinking more of the Legacies charging for extra bags/snacks/etc. when back in the day that was never an issue. Obviously I realize times have changed and the boom of LCCs has played its role, I just feel that at least for the legacies, unless you're flying F/Y+ then the whole experience of flying has changed.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: KingCavalier
Posted 2008-04-07 17:17:37 and read 3012 times.

The good 'ole days -

http://www.departedflights.com/

Big version: Width: 205 Height: 484 File size: 75kb
1983
Big version: Width: 344 Height: 700 File size: 192kb
1977

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: JetBlueAUS
Posted 2008-04-07 18:50:29 and read 2962 times.



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 73):
These are good points. I was really thinking in terms of the U.S. legacy carriers. The new LCC airlines like B6 and F9 are a step up from even the Legacy carriers in Y class. My remarks above were thinking more of the Legacies charging for extra bags/snacks/etc. when back in the day that was never an issue. Obviously I realize times have changed and the boom of LCCs has played its role, I just feel that at least for the legacies, unless you're flying F/Y+ then the whole experience of flying has changed.

Exactly. At least Frontier isn't asking for you to purchase a box filled with penauts and nuts for $5. At least they are giving you a sandwich at $3.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: WNCrew
Posted 2008-04-07 19:18:03 and read 2940 times.

So gas is increasingly expensive for the airlines (who already weren't in the best financial shape)....AND the public STILL expects to pay $79 to fly across the country, even though they KNOW the price of gas is outrageous every time they fill up their tanks.

I don't see how anyone can blame the airlines for charging for things like snacks. Until people are willing to pay a reasonable fare and/or realize that airlines and the services they provide ARE affected by high oil prices then I don't see what else the airlines are to do?

Also, why is WN always looked at as Greyhound of the skies? Just this morning I worked BNA-MCO, 1:45 flying time. In that time ALL pax got an apple/oatmeal breakfast bar, along with peanuts/pretzels and we did two initial drink services as well as walking through the cabin every 5-10 mins thereafter fulfilling requests. As well all pax have 33" of seat pitch and pillows/blankets. Last time I took a transcon on a "legacy" I got no pillow/blanket, one drink service (4hrs of flying) and absolutely NOTHING to put in my mouth for free. We are always encourages to give cans if requested, as many refills as the pax wants and we can offer any leftover snacks in the snack cabinet we have in the back. We also still hand out coloring books and wings as well as playing cards, pins, bag tags etc. It's not as iff we're somehow "bare bones".......

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirframeAS
Posted 2008-04-07 20:31:13 and read 2866 times.

Just for the record, if memory serves correct, the F.A.A. considers each person on the plane as 170lbs each....not 125lbs.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: SKORD
Posted 2008-04-07 21:13:13 and read 2823 times.

WN Crew. I am from the UK, and last year i took my 1st WN flight LAS_TPA. We were delayed by 4hrs due to winds at LAS, there were massive delays to all flights and all airlines.
Once we were airborne, the extremly friendly Crew came through with the Cabin Service. I ordered a double G&T and offered my CC for payment, at which point, i was told that all cabin service as free due to the delay!! I was most surprised, as the Crew seemed extremly happy to provide it all complimentary. During our 4+hr flight they were constantly in the cabin checking on pax. My point is... I was more than happy to pay for my food and drink on board as i paid very little for my flight. I actually felt guilty for asking for 2nd service which was free, again! In this day and age, if you get something free (and its not free, its incorperated in your ticket price!) enjoy it, and WELL DONE SW!!!! I flew US,AA also on that trip and their service was shocking! Southwest is a quality airline, with amazing staff! Keep it up!!

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: LACA773
Posted 2008-04-08 00:16:34 and read 2758 times.



Quoting WNCrew (Reply 76):
Just this morning I worked BNA-MCO, 1:45 flying time. In that time ALL pax got an apple/oatmeal breakfast bar, along with peanuts/pretzels and we did two initial drink services as well as walking through the cabin every 5-10 mins thereafter fulfilling requests. As well all pax have 33" of seat pitch and pillows/blankets. Last time I took a transcon on a "legacy" I got no pillow/blanket, one drink service (4hrs of flying) and absolutely NOTHING to put in my mouth for free. We are always encourages to give cans if requested, as many refills as the pax wants and we can offer any leftover snacks in the snack cabinet we have in the back. We also still hand out coloring books and wings as well as playing cards, pins, bag tags etc. It's not as iff we're somehow "bare bones".......

Thankyou for a job well done, WNCrew!
You know people can compare WN to riding a skanky Greyhound but let me tell you on the LAX-CHI runs, the cabin crew constantly came around checking on everyone, handed out a snack box (and the extras got passed around a second time). On UA you don't get anything except for a couple of drinks. The same box costs $5 and you get a movie.
On AA you get even less, one drink and you can buy the same box. No movies there on the S80s. WN has a much better product period. (BTW, WNCrew or any of our WN friends, is their still talk of you guys testing a IFE system? Or has that been put on hold/shelved because of the cost of fuel? ).
If F9 needs to charge for their snacks to survive with the cost of fuel out of control, by all means, do it. They are a great airline.

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: AirportGuy1971
Posted 2008-04-08 05:35:31 and read 2711 times.



Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 74):
The good 'ole days -

Yep, and god bless them. Frontier Mark I blazed the trail and established a legacy. Their day (and their airline) are long gone. If you read on their demise as well as that of PeoplExpress, you will see them referred to as a "high cost" carrier.

F9 owes them for a ready built recognition in the home town, but F9 would never survive on Mark I's business plan... The exces from that airline laid the foundation for F9 and even they knew that F9 would never serve steak and lobster...

Topic: RE: F9 To Start Charging For Snacks
Username: WNCrew
Posted 2008-04-08 05:43:13 and read 2709 times.



Quoting AirportGuy1971 (Reply 80):
WN has a much better product period. (BTW, WNCrew or any of our WN friends, is their still talk of you guys testing a IFE system? Or has that been put on hold/shelved because of the cost of fuel? ).
If F9 needs to charge for their snacks to survive with the cost of fuel out of control, by all means, do it. They are a great airline.

Thank you all for your positive comments!

As for IFE, I have not heard of any sort of IFE.....BUT I do know we start the testing of the ROW 44 Internet system this summer onboard 4 aircraft (with hopes to make it fleet-wide sometime next year). I think this will be a sufficient IFE, at least for WN, as we aren't hauling around IFE equipment on our short-hauls, just the Internet components.


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