Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/3921070/

Topic: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Aruba
Posted 2008-04-05 20:40:39 and read 4047 times.

Hi, many years ago when I was young, I flew from Montego Bay to JFK, I remember it was a widebody aircraft. It was Air Jamaica, from Montego Bay to JFK. It was in November of 2000. I don't know if it was a A310 or A340. Any tips?
Thanks so much
Will O.

[Edited 2008-04-05 20:43:33]

[Edited 2008-04-05 20:44:55]

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly It's A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Chris133
Posted 2008-04-05 20:45:07 and read 4043 times.

Yes Air Jamaica flew A310 from Montego Bay to JFK, BWI and i think at least one other place. Actually it was a great flight great service but way to much champagne.  Wink

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-05 20:53:17 and read 4034 times.

Quoting Aruba (Thread starter):
Hi, many years ago when I was young, I flew from Montego Bay to JFK, I remember it was a widebody aircraft. It was Air Jamaica, from Montego Bay to JFK. It was in November of 2000. I don't know if it was a A310 or A340. Any tips?
Thanks so much
Will O.

You were on JM 011.......Aircraft was an A310.....


The A310s were deployed to MIA, MCO, JFK,EWR,BWI,ATL,NAS,GCM and HAV........

[Edited 2008-04-05 20:57:09]

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Akizidy214
Posted 2008-04-05 20:56:00 and read 4024 times.

PHL, ATL, MIA, LHR , YYZ, FLL, MIA, & probably EWR are the others. Hopefully you flew "The Spirt of Spanish Town"

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Aruba
Posted 2008-04-05 22:12:09 and read 3938 times.

Thank you all so much, I have been wondering that for 8 years. Thanks
Will O.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Wedgetail737
Posted 2008-04-05 23:29:09 and read 3890 times.

Weren't the Air Jamaica A-310's old Pan Am/Delta birds?

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Dl_mech
Posted 2008-04-05 23:32:14 and read 3887 times.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 5):
Weren't the Air Jamaica A-310's old Pan Am/Delta birds?

No, they were all ex-DL (none flew for PA).

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: RAFVC10
Posted 2008-04-06 02:06:25 and read 3832 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 2):
You were on JM 011.......Aircraft was an A310.....

- 200 or - 300 series?

Regards,

Gerard

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: ImperialEagle
Posted 2008-04-06 04:30:13 and read 3780 times.

I remember them ops into ATL as I flew on quite a few flights to MO-Bay with them. Makes sense they would ops into JFK.
I miss the A-310's. I always like an over-powered airplane.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Eaglewarrior
Posted 2008-04-06 06:08:51 and read 3727 times.



Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 7):
- 200 or - 300 series?

I do believe they were -300 series. I flew them from MBJ to ATL and was disappointed when they dropped them.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: BCA2005
Posted 2008-04-06 06:38:31 and read 3675 times.

Did they also serve LHR with the A310?

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Imiakhtar
Posted 2008-04-06 07:03:36 and read 3638 times.

I believe that a few of their A310s are now in service with PK.

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 10):
Did they also serve LHR with the A310?

They certainly did:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dennis Lau
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Unsworth - WorldAirImages

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Wedgetail737
Posted 2008-04-06 07:49:42 and read 3601 times.



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 6):
No, they were all ex-DL (none flew for PA).

Really? I thought that the only reason why DL had A-310's was due to the DL/PA merger. So were these airplanes ordered by PA, but delivered to DL?

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 08:03:24 and read 3581 times.



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 11):

N835AB and N837AB were the two aircrafts specially configured for the Trans-Atlantic flights......

N835AB had 12F and 200Y

N837AB had 12F and 180Y.

They both had aux tanks............

The remaining A310s were configured 18F and 200Y.........

JM was the only airline offering a dedicated fashion show and inflight aerobics on its Trans-Atlantic flights......

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Jm017
Posted 2008-04-06 08:17:15 and read 3562 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 13):
They both had aux tanks............

This how they did the tranatlantic flights non-stop? I am confused as folks on A.net were saying the flights to LHR made a tech stop en route.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Imiakhtar
Posted 2008-04-06 08:45:36 and read 3535 times.



Quoting Jm017 (Reply 14):
This how they did the tranatlantic flights non-stop? I am confused as folks on A.net were saying the flights to LHR made a tech stop en route.

I'm pretty sure the flights were indeed non-stop. I believe PK at one time regularly had the A310s doing non-stop transatlantic flights from MAN to ORD, JFK and YYZ at one point.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 08:50:22 and read 3528 times.



Quoting Jm017 (Reply 14):

When the route was relaunched, it had a tech stop in Halifax as the aircraft was not ETOPS certified.....The stops in Haifax were on the westbound legs ......A rare occurence.....After receiving ETOPS certification, the aux tanks were added to enable cargo operations........

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 08:54:09 and read 3521 times.



Quoting Imiakhtar (Reply 15):
Quoting Jm017 (Reply 14):
This how they did the tranatlantic flights non-stop? I am confused as folks on A.net were saying the flights to LHR made a tech stop en route.

I'm pretty sure the flights were indeed non-stop. I believe PK at one time regularly had the A310s doing non-stop transatlantic flights from MAN to ORD, JFK and YYZ at one point.

The distances between MAN and ORD, JFK and YYZ are within the A310s range.......LHR-MBJ with cargo and without ETOPS routing was pushing the limits of the aircraft......

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Mats
Posted 2008-04-06 11:46:24 and read 3428 times.

What about LAX?
They used to actually fly to Terminal 7 or 8 (i.e. the United terminal). Was that with an A310?

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay...
Username: JM017
Posted 2008-04-06 11:58:18 and read 3420 times.



Quoting Mats (Reply 18):
They used to actually fly to Terminal 7 or 8 (i.e. the United terminal). Was that with an A310?

Nope. They never flew the LAX route with the A310. I am aware of JFK, EWR, MIA, BWI, ATL, GCM and PTY. I think they also used it to PHL when it shared the same flight with BWI. JM also used the A310 to PTY from KIN. They ran that route for about a week.....  Smile

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 12:54:53 and read 3369 times.



Quoting Mats (Reply 18):
What about LAX?
They used to actually fly to Terminal 7 or 8 (i.e. the United terminal). Was that with an A310?

The aircraft in question was the A300B4-203........

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: AirJamaica
Posted 2008-04-06 13:07:25 and read 3350 times.



Quoting JM017 (Reply 19):
Nope. They never flew the LAX route with the A310. I am aware of JFK, EWR, MIA, BWI, ATL, GCM and PTY. I think they also used it to PHL when it shared the same flight with BWI. JM also used the A310 to PTY from KIN. They ran that route for about a week.....

Actually they did fly the A310 on MBJ/LAX sometimes but this was extremely rare. I did Air Traffic Control between 1996 and 1998 and I have seen them dispatched that acft on some Sundays to LAX. As I said it was very very rare though.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: AirJamaica
Posted 2008-04-06 13:14:29 and read 3344 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 2):
The A310s were deployed to MIA, MCO, JFK,EWR,BWI,ATL,NAS,GCM and HAV........

They also deployed the A310 to Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected. Thats way too much acft for those routes.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 13:17:54 and read 3335 times.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 22):
They also deployed the A310 to Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected. Thats way too much acft for those routes.

Providenciales was a Sandals Staff Express......Belize was a " trial and huge error".............

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Akizidy214
Posted 2008-04-06 13:23:02 and read 3325 times.



Quoting JM017 (Reply 19):
JM also used the A310 to PTY from KIN.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 22):
Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected.

Hopefully the new JM management will have the insight to get some ATR72's so these routes can start again.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 13:35:14 and read 3308 times.



Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 24):
Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 22):
Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected.

Hopefully the new JM management will have the insight to get some ATR72's so these routes can start again.

The new owners plan to strengthen core US routes and open new markets in Europe........

BTW.....Plans for the ATR for domestic flights has been shelved..........

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: ChiGB1973
Posted 2008-04-06 14:19:37 and read 3354 times.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
So were these airplanes ordered by PA, but delivered to DL?

Seems to be the case. I have seen it posted on here in the past.

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Delta%20Airlines-history-a310.htm

M

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Akizidy214
Posted 2008-04-06 14:58:24 and read 3311 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 25):
BTW.....Plans for the ATR for domestic flights has been shelved..........

Pure foolishness! JM will never make a dime running airbuses between MBJ-KIN. The only bus that seams to make money in Jamaica is the light blue country BUS! lol

Now if they get some 330's for Europe that would make sense! But the turbo prop is a must for JM.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: JM017
Posted 2008-04-06 15:01:14 and read 3306 times.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 21):
Actually they did fly the A310 on MBJ/LAX sometimes but this was extremely rare. I did Air Traffic Control between 1996 and 1998 and I have seen them dispatched that acft on some Sundays to LAX. As I said it was very very rare though.

Thanks for the correction.

Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 22):
They also deployed the A310 to Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected. Thats way too much acft for those routes.

To Belize? Yah, waaay too much bird for those routes.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 24):
Hopefully the new JM management will have the insight to get some ATR72's so these routes can start again.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 25):

BTW.....Plans for the ATR for domestic flights has been shelved..........

Shelved, reconsidered, shelved....It's like a freaking yo yo. What are they considering in place of the ATRs? They need something to connect the two cities if the larger aircraft are not going to do cross-island sectors. And hopefully an option not costing $200 round trip.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: AirJamaica
Posted 2008-04-06 15:47:44 and read 3258 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 25):
The new owners plan to strengthen core US routes and open new markets in Europe........

Many people will probably ask " If they could not get a city like London with the tourist/VFR traffic to work how will any other European city work for them ?" Your thoughts on this please.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Akizidy214
Posted 2008-04-06 16:05:05 and read 3235 times.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 29):
Many people will probably ask " If they could not get a city like London with the tourist/VFR traffic to work how will any other European city work for them ?" Your thoughts on this please.

JM was flying the wrong a/c for this route. Jamaica by far is not a 3 class destination. If they were to get the 332 they could make London work again. But I would route it KIN-HAV-LGW. LHR is out of the question. Also JM could definitely make Spain work with a MBJ-FLL-MAD routing. If they were able to secure 5th freedom rights. Im still kinda iffy on the Portugal thing..... They still need a wide body for JFK and YYZ. So in my opinion a fleet of 3 maybe 4 should work.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Dl_mech
Posted 2008-04-06 16:19:07 and read 3205 times.



Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
I thought that the only reason why DL had A-310's was due to the DL/PA merger. So were these airplanes ordered by PA, but delivered to DL?

Only two PA ordered A-310's did not go to DL. These two PA-configured A-310-300's instead went to Ecuatoriana. From what I heard, the DL ordered A-310's were on a one for one exchange basis with Airbus in order to make up for the less than favorable lease rates that PA was paying.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: HummingBird
Posted 2008-04-06 22:01:16 and read 3115 times.



Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 27):
Pure foolishness! JM will never make a dime running airbuses between MBJ-KIN. The only bus that seams to make money in Jamaica is the light blue country BUS! lol



Quoting JM017 (Reply 28):
Shelved, reconsidered, shelved....It's like a freaking yo yo. What are they considering in place of the ATRs? They need something to connect the two cities if the larger aircraft are not going to do cross-island sectors. And hopefully an option not costing $200 round trip.

Hopefully the new owners will seriously study this aircraft for its intra caribbean domestic operation....The aircraft was not acquired due to internal conficts......The wet lease cost were above the company's budget......Currently all flights are streamlined so as to have point to point operations.....

The article below will give an insight of the cost associated with the ATR operations........

The aircraft has the capacity to carry 72 passengers, but will transport only 66 persons at any given time, in order to make way for the number of bags that it has to accommodate.

The flights will operate at least nine times per day between both cities, "and a big part of this new service is to meet the transportation needs of the British Airways and Virgin Atlantic passengers who now come in and have to drive across the island," said Williams.

According to Nordic Aviation in Ireland, it costs US$110,000 (J$7.9 million) per month for a dry lease (crew not included) for such an aircraft.

Williams was tightlipped about the fare that the route would attract. The airline now charges J$8,500 return between both cities.

An aviation expert has estimated that it will cost US$5,000-US$7,000 per hour (J$350,000- J$490,000), depending on the age, configuration and condition of the aircraft, to operate the ATR72.

Increased airfares?

If the airline runs 70 per cent capacity, it is projected that it will lose money, so it must increase the airfare to at least US$170 return (J$11,900) to make a marginal profit, said the expert, whom The Gleaner has chosen not to identify.

"When you wet lease an aircraft, the company leasing is responsible for fuel, navigational fees, landing fees, handling and the crew housing and transportation," he continued.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 27):
Now if they get some 330's for Europe that would make sense! But the turbo prop is a must for JM.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 29):
Many people will probably ask " If they could not get a city like London with the tourist/VFR traffic to work how will any other European city work for them ?" Your thoughts on this please.



Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 30):
JM was flying the wrong a/c for this route. Jamaica by far is not a 3 class destination. If they were to get the 332 they could make London work again. But I would route it KIN-HAV-LGW. LHR is out of the question. Also JM could definitely make Spain work with a MBJ-FLL-MAD routing. If they were able to secure 5th freedom rights. Im still kinda iffy on the Portugal thing..... They still need a wide body for JFK and YYZ. So in my opinion a fleet of 3 maybe 4 should work.

The new owners will work closely with The Jamaica Tourist Board.......Flights from Spain, France, Italy and Germany are under review...These flights will support the "Spanish Conquistadors".............

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: MD90fan
Posted 2008-04-12 18:35:33 and read 2982 times.



Quoting AirJamaica (Reply 22):

They also deployed the A310 to Belize City & Providenciales when they flew those routes which were discontinued as expected. Thats way too much acft for those routes.

No wonder those routes aren't around.

Those routes would struggle to fill a modern turboprop, let alone a widebody jet.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Viscount724
Posted 2008-04-13 15:13:40 and read 2832 times.



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 31):
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
I thought that the only reason why DL had A-310's was due to the DL/PA merger. So were these airplanes ordered by PA, but delivered to DL?


Only two PA ordered A-310's did not go to DL. These two PA-configured A-310-300's instead went to Ecuatoriana. From what I heard, the DL ordered A-310's were on a one for one exchange basis with Airbus in order to make up for the less than favorable lease rates that PA was paying.

In addition to the 7 A310-200s and 14 A310-300s that went from PA to DL in 1991, DL also took delivery of 9 new A310-300s in 1993.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: LimaMike
Posted 2008-04-13 19:35:17 and read 2747 times.



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 32):
The new owners will work closely with The Jamaica Tourist Board.......Flights from Spain, France, Italy and Germany are under review...These flights will support the "Spanish Conquistadors".............

Even given the level of Spanish investment in Jamaica's tourism, a VERY detailed review of these "potential" European destinations would definitely need to be done to determine the feasability of a JM foray into these markets. Heaven knows history hasnt been kind to JM and its surge into new markets based on their apparent "potential". Look how much "potential" PTY had based on the number of Jamaican ICIs who conduct business in Panama, or the level of "potential" in BON based on their spectacular diving spots, or the "potential" of FLL-BGI based on the (apparently) many thousands of Bajans or tourists wanting to travel between South Florida and Barbados and couldnt find a flight anywhere, or the huge "potential" of BZE, PTY, PLS, ANU, MAN. We all know how successful those potential turned out to be.  smirk 

And on top of it all/ JM would need to acquire a suitable sized aircraft with the range to make Europe. Perhaps the B763 would be the ideal aircraft if any of these "potential" routes were to be realized. But considering that JM has been a loyal Airbus customer then maybe the next best bet would be the A332.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Akizidy214
Posted 2008-04-13 20:27:21 and read 2708 times.



Quoting LimaMike (Reply 35):
erhaps the B763 would be the ideal aircraft if any of these "potential" routes were to be realized.

The A332 is a much better a/c for JM. As much as I like the 763 it just doesn't match up luggage/cargo wise.

Topic: RE: Did Air Jamaica Fly A A310 From Montego Bay....
Username: Jm017
Posted 2008-04-13 21:50:58 and read 2674 times.



Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 27):
Pure foolishness! JM will never make a dime running airbuses between MBJ-KIN. The only bus that seams to make money in Jamaica is the light blue country BUS! lol

True. But what about something like an ERJ 145 or CRJ 100 or 200? Smaller. Probably more economical for the short island hops.

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 30):
Also JM could definitely make Spain work with a MBJ-FLL-MAD routing

Are there that many visitors from Spain? I would have thought FRA, AMS or MUC would be better choices. Well, I guess dutch travellers would favour the ABC islands. But I was thinking major hubs where tourists could transfer for the flight to MBJ.


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/