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Topic: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2008-09-12 10:07:30 and read 9917 times.

Hey all,

Just heard along the grapvine that the AA ORD-Int'l flight attendants were told that ORD-DUB and ORD-MAN are to become 75A routes as soon as AA begins reconfiguring their subfleet of 18x TATL 757's.

So, there's (unofficially) two routes that will get 75A's.

On a final note - I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... AA please bring back ORD-GLA!!!!!  Big grin  crossfingers 

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: SW733
Posted 2008-09-12 10:16:23 and read 9892 times.

Interesting. I'm ticketed ORD-DUB-ORD in January and I haven't seen a seat map that empty in a long time...sure, I know that's not a perfect judge but...it's emptyyyy.

When would this begin?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: PanAm330
Posted 2008-09-12 11:21:52 and read 9751 times.

Stinks to see any downgrades, but I'm honestly more interested in where these 763s will go. Replacing some A300 routes, new routes, or temporarily for winglet mods. The possibilities are endless!  Wink But seriously, I'm hoping for some new routes here!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-12 11:34:18 and read 9718 times.



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 2):
Stinks to see any downgrades, but I'm honestly more interested in where these 763s will go. Replacing some A300 routes, new routes, or temporarily for winglet mods. The possibilities are endless! Wink But seriously, I'm hoping for some new routes here!

Well, more 763s to Heathrow (BOS/RDU/DFW-LHR), 763 to Moscow, too. This frees up more 772s to Latin America (i.e. MIA-GRU is now 3x daily 772 year-round); plus Madrid. Plus 763s are being used on the new MIA-REC/SSA/CNF flights.

One more European route will likely get a 772, maybe JFK-CDG.

Hopefully we'll see a new Europe route from Miami in 2009 - Milan or Barcelona.

But, yes, more 763s doing short-haul from Miami is probably a given. We are already seeing 763s doing JFK-Caribbean this winter, with JFK-PAP/SDQ.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-09-12 12:01:38 and read 9646 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Well, more 763s to Heathrow (BOS/RDU/DFW-LHR), 763 to Moscow, too. This frees up more 772s to Latin America (i.e. MIA-GRU is now 3x daily 772 year-round); plus Madrid. Plus 763s are being used on the new MIA-REC/SSA/CNF flights.

Is AA going to add more flights to LHR from DFW/BOS/RDU? BOS and RDU are already going all 763. DFW is going one 763 and one 777 which is where it will probably stay.

Of course DME is going 763 and needs one. And the new Brazil routes need 763's. Thats probably where these 763's would go if ORD-DUB/MAN are downgraded.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Hopefully we'll see a new Europe route from Miami in 2009 - Milan or Barcelona.

Maybe you can correct me on this if im wrong, but from what Ive heard, the next routes to Europe up for strong consideration are DFW-MAD and MIA-MXP.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: SCL767
Posted 2008-09-12 12:09:05 and read 9606 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Hopefully we'll see a new Europe route from Miami in 2009 - Milan or Barcelona.

Awesome! MiAAmi-MilAAn is way overdue; I'm happy that AA is reconsidering this route!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: David_itl
Posted 2008-09-12 12:15:11 and read 9559 times.

Presumably potentially good news for BD then for MAN-ORD. But a bit of a shame that the moment AA and BA want to get ATI, they appear to want to downgrade the only non-London link in the UK, especially the alleged profitability of the route. But, then again, BA's got form for this type of thing with other carriers so I guess we shouldn't be so surprised..

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Woody71
Posted 2008-09-12 12:26:49 and read 9525 times.

Forgive my ignorance as I am an avionics guy and not much up on A/C capabilities but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit? I mean BOS/JFK to MAN/DUB is one thing but ORD? That is a loooong way on a plane I always thought was trans-con or shorter route TATL.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: United1
Posted 2008-09-12 12:30:59 and read 9495 times.



Quoting Woody71 (Reply 7):
A/C capabilities but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit?

ORD-UK/Ireland is within the range of the 752, anything much farther than that and I hope the passengers are prepared to get out and push.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: David_itl
Posted 2008-09-12 12:31:36 and read 9480 times.

I believe CO were doing CLE-CDG on 757s. This is slightly longer than ORD-MAN. Might also be down to engines.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: PanAm330
Posted 2008-09-12 12:32:16 and read 9482 times.



Quoting Woody71 (Reply 7):
Forgive my ignorance as I am an avionics guy and not much up on A/C capabilities but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit? I mean BOS/JFK to MAN/DUB is one thing but ORD? That is a loooong way on a plane I always thought was trans-con or shorter route TATL.

It's certainly feasible. For comparison's sake, CO flies EWR-TXL, which is 3458nm. ORD-MAN is 3325, or 133nm shorter. They'll be more than fine on it. Maybe some weight restrictions on really hot summer days, but mostly it should operate without issue.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Transpac787
Posted 2008-09-12 12:34:28 and read 9470 times.

Quoting Woody71 (Reply 7):
but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit?

MAN-ORD is beginning to push the limit, but still within the abilities of the 757. It's one of my favorite planes so my opinion is heavily biased, but the 757 is a titan of a plane - not too much it can't do (within reason, of course).

By comparison though, the longest 757 route ever was NW's FRA-DTW at 3616nm. MAN-ORD is 3325nm and DUB-ORD is 3192nm (all according to GCM).

While the RR engines are less efficient than the PW's, AA has high-gross-weight 757's and should be able to run the routes without weight limits. If they do take any, it should only be a few seats.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
When would this begin?

No official time. As soon as the 757's begin getting the 16J/166Y cabin reconfigurations.

So, your flights in January should still be 763's.

[Edited 2008-09-12 12:49:15]

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Ripcordd
Posted 2008-09-12 12:39:19 and read 9442 times.

They will and hope only be 757 during the slow season cause in the summer time those 2 routes are always full but I don't know how much they make on those full flights if the margins suck then I can see why. I would love to see GLA come back

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-12 12:40:33 and read 9433 times.

This should see the demise of another One World carrier out of MAN. The AA 757 sucked on the BOS-MAN leg, throw them on the ORD-MAN and they will suck for a few hours longer.

The one good thing is that the Skyteam and Star Alliance guys can benefit. So long AA, tried your 757 once across the pond and that was enough for me. Enjoy LHR you and BA can keep the place as long as you like!!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LUPOR1D
Posted 2008-09-12 12:40:56 and read 9434 times.



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 11):
MAN-ORD is beginning to push the limit, but still within the abilities of the 757. It's one of my favorite planes so my opinion is heavily biased, but the 757 is a titan of a plane - not too much it can't do (within reason, of course).

Not really- at most 200nm further than DUB.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: PanAm330
Posted 2008-09-12 12:44:25 and read 9399 times.



Quoting Col (Reply 13):
This should see the demise of another One World carrier out of MAN. The AA 757 sucked on the BOS-MAN leg, throw them on the ORD-MAN and they will suck for a few hours longer.

The one good thing is that the Skyteam and Star Alliance guys can benefit. So long AA, tried your 757 once across the pond and that was enough for me. Enjoy LHR you and BA can keep the place as long as you like!!

FWIW, AA will be refurbishing their 757 interiors. These particular TATL-equipped birds will have the new J seats, new Y seats, sidewalls and the like. They'll be quite nice and fresh when complete. New LCDs as well (whether they're over the aisle or PTVs I don't know; don't care personally).

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2008-09-12 13:02:45 and read 9351 times.



Quoting Woody71 (Reply 7):
Forgive my ignorance as I am an avionics guy and not much up on A/C capabilities but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit? I mean BOS/JFK to MAN/DUB is one thing but ORD? That is a loooong way on a plane I always thought was trans-con or shorter route TATL.

I think Delta Air Lines operate the longest 757 route in the world with Atlanta-Shannon.
Last summer AA operated ORD-SNN with a 757-200W.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-12 13:15:39 and read 9302 times.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 4):

Is AA going to add more flights to LHR from DFW/BOS/RDU? BOS and RDU are already going all 763. DFW is going one 763 and one 777 which is where it will probably stay.

The current summer 2009 schedule is showing DFW-LHR and BOS-LHR at 3x daily each, but that is a dummy schedule as AA is using slot holders as they wait to figure out what to do. With BOS-LHR, it is easy to place a 3rd frequency temporarily into booking engines and then rebook everybody into the other two flights. DFW-LHR very may likely go 3x daily, though. It also might be part of a grander scheme to get anti-trust approval, like saying "Hey, look, if we get approval, we are willing to remove one of three daily BOS-LHR flights this summer."

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: SCL767
Posted 2008-09-12 13:18:32 and read 9282 times.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 16):

Didn't Icelandair operate KEF-MCO-KEF, and still fly KEF-MSP-KEF with the 752? MIA-LPB and MIA-VVI are also over 6 hours flying time from MIA.

[Edited 2008-09-12 13:18:58]

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-09-12 13:46:42 and read 9188 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
DFW-LHR very may likely go 3x daily, though. It also might be part of a grander scheme to get anti-trust approval, like saying "Hey, look, if we get approval, we are willing to remove one of three daily BOS-LHR flights this summer."

Actually, Im glad you brought this up.

It looks like AA is indeed going 3x daily DFW-LHR and BOS-LHR starting May 1. Not sure if this is seasonal or permanent. The new flights are bookable, but as you say, AA might use them as a bargaining tool if they have to. From what it looks like the slots are coming from LAX and ORD. But its still far out and even though they are bookable, who knows what will happen when it comes down to ATI.

Heres the schedule for the new flights:

AA 124 S M T W T F S BOSLHR 955P 935A 763
AA 125 S M T W T F S LHRBOS 315P 540P 763

AA 80 S M T W T F S DFWLHR 900P 1225P+ 763
AA 81 S M T W T F S LHRDFW 1215P 440P 763

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2008-09-12 13:48:21 and read 9179 times.



Quoting Woody71 (Reply 7):
Forgive my ignorance as I am an avionics guy and not much up on A/C capabilities but does the 757 really have that kind of range or is this pushing the limit?

AA used to operate its Ireland routes on 757's when they were first launched in 2005 (ORD-DUB and BOS-SNN). They actually stayed that way for a few years until the BOS-SNN route was dropped and instead American linked its operations to go ORD-SNN-DUB-ORD and upgraded the aircraft to a 763. Since then, SNN has been dropped. The 757's are widely used on Ireland routes from the U.S. and suit them well.

On a slightly different topic, anybody wonder why CO uses a 757 on its EWR-MAD route? You would think that its enough of a high-density route to use a bigger a/c, especially since US PHL-MAD uses an A333 and EWR definitely has as much (if not more) of a domestic feed than PHL?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2008-09-12 13:52:09 and read 9159 times.



Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
Didn't Icelandair operate KEF-MCO-KEF, and still fly KEF-MSP-KEF with the 752? MIA-LPB and MIA-VVI are also over 6 hours flying time from MIA.

DL's SNN-ATL flight is 8 hours and 40 minutes. Not sure about KEF-MCO but KEF-MSP definately wouldn't beat this flight time.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: SW733
Posted 2008-09-12 13:51:54 and read 9160 times.



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 20):
AA used to operate its Ireland routes on 757's when they were first launched in 2005 (ORD-DUB and BOS-SNN). They actually stayed that way for a few years until the BOS-SNN route was dropped and instead American linked its operations to go ORD-SNN-DUB-ORD and upgraded the aircraft to a 763

What exactly do you mean by "a few years" because I flew ORD-DUB-ORD in December 2005/January 2006 and it was a (rather full) 767-300.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: IrishAyes
Posted 2008-09-12 14:04:20 and read 9121 times.



Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):
What exactly do you mean by "a few years" because I flew ORD-DUB-ORD in December 2005/January 2006 and it was a (rather full) 767-300.

Sorry, you are correct. I had assumed that both of the flights were operated on 757's. Yes, AA was a 763 from ORD-DUB. Here's the thread that supports what you had asked:

AA+ORD-SNN#ID3158052" target=_blank>http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...hid=3158052&s=AA+ORD-SNN#ID3158052

My apologies.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-09-12 14:10:23 and read 9105 times.



Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 20):
AA used to operate its Ireland routes on 757's when they were first launched in 2005 (ORD-DUB and BOS-SNN).

Actually I'm fairly certain that ORD-DUB has always been a 763.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MANGuy
Posted 2008-09-12 14:09:10 and read 9105 times.

If true, an AA 757 on ORD-MAN will kill it dead IMO....will last one or two seasons at best. All part of the AA/BA masterplan for the future of UK-US air travel I think.

Best hope BD stick around on the MAN-ORD I guess but in these trying times who knows what will happen next?!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Danfearn77
Posted 2008-09-12 14:20:23 and read 9535 times.



Quoting David_itl (Reply 6):
But, then again, BA's got form for this type of thing with other carriers so I guess we shouldn't be so surprised..

No not really. When we first heard of the alliance some of us guessed this route would eventually go, and this looks like the start of it.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2008-09-12 14:21:18 and read 9547 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 24):
Actually I'm fairly certain that ORD-DUB has always been a 763.

Yes you're right. DUB always was a 763 from day 1 and SNN always was a 752 except the one winter where DUB-ORD and SNN-ORD were operated in conjunction with each other [1 763 was used].

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Soxfan
Posted 2008-09-12 14:36:28 and read 9463 times.

Are any of the 763s scheduled for retirement, or are all of the frames still scheduled to continue flying?

Also, for the 757 refurbishments, are the new Y seats basically the same ones currently featured on the 737-800s, 777s, newer 763s, and some MD80s?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: UN_B732
Posted 2008-09-12 16:15:11 and read 9304 times.

I don't recall non-stop ATL-SNN on the 757? I know they fly CVG-AMS which is 3599nm is just a few miles shorter than DTW-FRA.

-A

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Gkirk
Posted 2008-09-12 16:22:18 and read 9303 times.

AA will lose a LOT of customers from the UK if they go MAN-ORD with a 757, especially as it was thought to be one of the best performing tx routes for them. Londres Airways influence again?  scratchchin 

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-12 16:44:09 and read 9220 times.

AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AJMIA
Posted 2008-09-12 16:43:29 and read 9222 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
With BOS-LHR, it is easy to place a 3rd frequency temporarily into booking engines and then rebook everybody into the other two flights. DFW-LHR very may likely go 3x daily, though. It also might be part of a grander scheme to get anti-trust approval, like saying "Hey, look, if we get approval, we are willing to remove one of three daily BOS-LHR flights this summer."

Ah OK. It was blowing my mind that BOS was getting LHR #3 before MIA got LHR #2.

I do not believe that LAX-LHR #2 is in the system for next summer so that is probably the slot in question.

Is this a summer only slot or is AA just using it part of the year and thus able to hold on to it??

AJMIA

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-12 17:26:23 and read 9165 times.



Quoting AJMIA (Reply 32):
Ah OK. It was blowing my mind that BOS was getting LHR #3 before MIA got LHR #2.

Keep in mind, though, that AA loves MIA-LHR because they get so much paid F and C travel on the route, and they love to keep the number of premium seats on the route very limited that keeps fares very artificially high. No other single U.S.-LHR flight on AA has a higher proportion of paid F than AA 56/57.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 32):
I do not believe that LAX-LHR #2 is in the system for next summer so that is probably the slot in question.

It's not, as you note. That slot is being used on the 3rd BOS-LHR dummy frequency.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 32):

Is this a summer only slot or is AA just using it part of the year and thus able to hold on to it??

Summer-only.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-09-12 17:31:14 and read 9107 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
That slot is being used on the 3rd BOS-LHR dummy frequency.

Is it a dummy frequency if its bookable?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-12 17:36:11 and read 9113 times.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 34):


Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
That slot is being used on the 3rd BOS-LHR dummy frequency.

Is it a dummy frequency if its bookable?

Well, it obviously has to be bookable so AA can keep the slot. As of now, they do not plan on actually starting the 3rd daily BOS-LHR service, but we'll see. One advantage is that BOS-LHR is the shortest utilization rate of a widebody to Heathrow.

[Edited 2008-09-12 17:37:14]

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Flyguy1
Posted 2008-09-12 17:43:47 and read 9079 times.

Any chance AA will up JFK back to 6x daily?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-09-12 17:51:50 and read 9057 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
Well, it obviously has to be bookable so AA can keep the slot. As of now, they do not plan on actually starting the 3rd daily BOS-LHR service, but we'll see. One advantage is that BOS-LHR is the shortest utilization rate of a widebody to Heathrow.

Oh. I thought a dummy slot was a flight put in schedules, but not bookable.

What about the 3rd DFW-LHR slot? Same deal.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: SCL767
Posted 2008-09-12 18:11:35 and read 9008 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
hat AA loves MIA-LHR because they get so much paid F and C travel on the route, and they love to keep the number of premium seats on the route very limited that keeps fares very artificially high. No other single U.S.-LHR flight on AA has a higher proportion of paid F than AA 56/57.

The only flight I take to LHR; don't forget about MIA-EZE 2x daily. I believe some flights are already sold out!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: David_itl
Posted 2008-09-13 03:47:04 and read 8701 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

But you've got to admit that the timing of this looks none to clever when AA has been operating the route since 1986, having upset BA in the early to mid 1990s by adding frequency then deciding to have a love-fest with BA that saw the extra frequency go but still soldier on with it's daily service and then decide to (a) drop to less than daily and (b) stick 757s on the route when in sight of getting ATI. It's only natural to look at the wider BA picture of how they wield influence on airlines with whom they have commerical partnerships who also operate to MAN and coerce them to make the MAN service unworkable.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-13 05:19:42 and read 8543 times.



Quoting David_itl (Reply 39):
But you've got to admit that the timing of this looks none to clever when AA has been operating the route since 1986, having upset BA in the early to mid 1990s by adding frequency then deciding to have a love-fest with BA that saw the extra frequency go but still soldier on with it's daily service and then decide to (a) drop to less than daily and (b) stick 757s on the route when in sight of getting ATI. It's only natural to look at the wider BA picture of how they wield influence on airlines with whom they have commerical partnerships who also operate to MAN and coerce them to make the MAN service unworkable.

Frankly, who cares. The point today is to have consistency. Anything to do with BA except in London in non reliable. As AA is part of the One World alliance, and you have seen what interest they have in MAN, then why are we concerned about this. Put a 757 on, kill the route, then the other Skyteam/Star guys are guaranteed more success. As I said previously, for me BA/AA can keep LHR to themselves. I will take direct into MAN on DL/CO/BD/US consistency, rather than the One World lack of service!!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: ContinentalEWR
Posted 2008-09-13 07:32:50 and read 8163 times.

Look for JFK to BRU and BCN to become 757's as well. As AA draws down the A300 fleet, it needs the 767-300's for high density pax and cargo ops to the Caribbean and Latin America.

ContinentalEWR

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Flavio340
Posted 2008-09-13 08:52:38 and read 7812 times.

Here are the route fomr JFK, ORD and BOS that are under 4000mi (excluding LHR):

JFK-BCN 3825mi
JFK-BRU 3661mi
JFK-MXP 3988mi
JFK-CDG 3628mi
JFK-ZRH 3924mi

ORD-DUB 3667mi
ORD-MAN 3819mi

BOS-CDG 3442mi

Also these route would only require one aircraft. Now AA is converting 18 airplanes, if you double up some of the service (CDG, ZRH) there are still about 7 757 left for new routes. My two questions are which city would get the new services and would all the 767 go to A300 replacements?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2008-09-13 11:54:34 and read 7449 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

I think that will be the case as well...hopefully it will also improve RASM.....DOT data shows AA's running only at 69%/75% for MAN-ORD-MAN respectfully for the first 3 months of the year. This is certainly down from previous years.

BD has 76.8%/67.9% l.f on the same routes respectfully.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
AA will lose a LOT of customers from the UK if they go MAN-ORD with a 757



Quoting MANGuy (Reply 25):
If true, an AA 757 on ORD-MAN will kill it dead IMO....will last one or two seasons at best. All part of the AA/BA masterplan for the future of UK-US air travel I think.

Best hope BD stick around on the MAN-ORD I guess but in these trying times who knows what will happen next?!

What's interesting is BD is actually faring the same as AA..at least load factor-wise (yes, we know...l.f.doesn't = profits.. no  ).

What's important to note however is that 90% of pax flying with BD are either connecting to LAS/MCO/MIA/DEN/LAX via codeshare with UA. Now I don't know what AA's numbers are but I believe a larger % are O&D....which would lead more credibility to MAH4546's comment above...

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-13 12:14:18 and read 7394 times.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
What's important to note however is that 90% of pax flying with BD are either connecting to LAS/MCO/MIA/DEN/LAX via codeshare with UA. Now I don't know what AA's numbers are but I believe a larger % are O&D....which would lead more credibility to MAH4546's comment above...

What about Freight. A 757 would be able to uplift a couple of boxes of kleenex. This will reduce profitability even further, so quicken the demise. BD will hopefully pick up some of the O&D and freight, thus keeping the route profitable.

BA/AA pulling out of MAN could be a win win for everyone in the long run.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: ElmoTheHobo
Posted 2008-09-13 13:09:45 and read 7298 times.



Quoting MANGuy (Reply 25):
If true, an AA 757 on ORD-MAN will kill it dead IMO....will last one or two seasons at best. All part of the AA/BA masterplan for the future of UK-US air travel I think.

Untrue. The reconfigured 757s will offer a level of comfort comparable to other aircraft. People don't care what kind of plane it is, whether is single or two aisle.

Quoting MANGuy (Reply 25):
Best hope BD stick around on the MAN-ORD I guess but in these trying times who knows what will happen next?!

There is space for two airlines on Chicago-Manchester.

Quoting Soxfan (Reply 28):
Are any of the 763s scheduled for retirement, or are all of the frames still scheduled to continue flying?

None scheduled for retirement in the near term, and one 763 will rejoin the fleet in the coming months after finishing the winglet tests.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 30):
AA will lose a LOT of customers from the UK if they go MAN-ORD with a 757, especially as it was thought to be one of the best performing tx routes for them. Londres Airways influence again? scratchchin

I've always heard that it was a top performing route. American is going to take the biggest hit on cargo. The market is clearly fragmenting, and smaller markets (or secondary markets) aren't going to be seeing a lot of the big capacity that the Londons, Parises and Frankfurts of the world are seeing.

All of this talk about more point to point means a strengthening of hubs on one end and the addition of new spokes. I won't be surprised to hear about the opening of new routes to the UK - Newcastle, returning to Birmingham and Glasgow, Bristol, Edinburgh, etc... (i.e. the concrete strips that CO opened up to TATL flights) from JFK and ORD. It also means that a lot of these spokes are going to see downgrades in capacity. Flying a 757 with higher yielding passengers and routing the rest over Heathrow - or letting BD carry them, is a wise financial decision, especially with BA bringing A380s online. It may prove to simply be more cost effective to route discount Y fares over Heathrow than nonstop to destinations in the UK.

Also, this whole London Airways thing makes for a great soundbyte, but it doesn't address the fact that in today's market, you simply can't make regional Point to Point routes work from your home market to non-hub spokes. BA was mistaken in dropping MAN-JFK, IMO, but abandoning Point to Point flying out of the other UK airports, not making an attempt to pick up GB Airways and selling off BA Connect allowed BA to focus on what it is best at - hubbing at Heathrow and Gatwick, and business routes out of LCY. Not to mention that British Airways is more profitable than it has ever been. They aren't a charity, they are a business, and London happens to be where they make their business work best.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2008-09-13 18:10:27 and read 7100 times.



Quoting Col (Reply 44):

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
What's important to note however is that 90% of pax flying with BD are either connecting to LAS/MCO/MIA/DEN/LAX via codeshare with UA. Now I don't know what AA's numbers are but I believe a larger % are O&D....which would lead more credibility to MAH4546's comment above...

What about Freight. A 757 would be able to uplift a couple of boxes of kleenex. This will reduce profitability even further, so quicken the demise. BD will hopefully pick up some of the O&D and freight, thus keeping the route profitable.

AA carriers 1/2 the freight (in each direction) than BD does....it seems freight is a bit more important to BD than for AA......of course, BD flies the A332 which is a bit larger than AA's B763's.

Quoting Col (Reply 44):
BA/AA pulling out of MAN could be a win win for everyone in the long run.

Except for OneWorld Fliers.. hissyfit 

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 45):

Quoting MANGuy (Reply 25):
Best hope BD stick around on the MAN-ORD I guess but in these trying times who knows what will happen next?!

There is space for two airlines on Chicago-Manchester.

At one time there were 3..with PK..actually, PK might be flying back to ORD again but probably as a nonstop flight as MAN-ORD-MAN as O&D did poorly.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-14 14:09:23 and read 6800 times.

quote=Jacobin777,reply=46]AA carriers 1/2 the freight (in each direction) than BD does....it seems freight is a bit more important to BD than for AA......of course, BD flies the A332 which is a bit larger than AA's B763's.[/quote]

The 332 does give you more flexibility, so they probably do better on the route than the old AA 763.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 46):
Except for OneWorld Fliers..

Sorry about that, just thinking of myself. I am FF with One World also QF. I used to be highest level, but BA/QF/AA/LHR and lost bags put an end to that alliance!! So have a bias to Skyteam and Star, and going straight into MAN.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: FURUREFA
Posted 2008-09-14 14:12:55 and read 6790 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
With BOS-LHR, it is easy to place a 3rd frequency temporarily into booking engines and then rebook everybody into the other two flights.

I usually agree with you, but I've heard from people in management levels 8/9 that 124/125 (the new BOS/LHR frequency) will is not just a "dummy" but will definitely operate come May. Of course, May is in a while and things may change before then.


Matt

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Daleaholic
Posted 2008-09-14 14:15:09 and read 6791 times.

Great... Another 757 across the Atlantic to MAN  Yeah sure

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-09-14 14:24:29 and read 6786 times.

I remember reading not too long ago that ORD-MAN was one of AA's best performing ORD-Europe flights, is this no longer the case?

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: TUSAA
Posted 2008-09-14 17:09:17 and read 6693 times.



Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 48):
usually agree with you, but I've heard from people in management levels 8/9 that 124/125 (the new BOS/LHR frequency) will is not just a "dummy" but will definitely operate come May.

FURUREFA' what you heard is most likely what will happen. MAH4546 post's inaccurate info quite often regarding AA. He's refuses to reveal his sources, which is probably nothing more than a close friend or relative at AA, or sometimes another forum such as USAviation.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-09-14 17:22:56 and read 6679 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 50):
I remember reading not too long ago that ORD-MAN was one of AA's best performing ORD-Europe flights, is this no longer the case?

Things do indeed change. Im not sure if it is still a very profitable flight. I know that (for example) DFW-ZRH used to be one of AA's most profitable routes. Now its defunct.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2008-09-14 17:28:15 and read 6663 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 50):
I remember reading not too long ago that ORD-MAN was one of AA's best performing ORD-Europe flights, is this no longer the case?

I think its a combination of the fact they will no longer have the A300's and there is probably some profit/yield loss on the route..amongst other things.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AirNZ
Posted 2008-09-14 17:49:28 and read 6636 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

Absolute BS!

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-09-14 17:57:33 and read 6620 times.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 52):
Things do indeed change. Im not sure if it is still a very profitable flight. I know that (for example) DFW-ZRH used to be one of AA's most profitable routes. Now its defunct.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 53):
I think its a combination of the fact they will no longer have the A300's and there is probably some profit/yield loss on the route..amongst other things.

Thanks both for the replies. I figued it was something along those lines. I'm also wondering if Open Skies and the complete move to LHR didn't have something to do with it. I realize that MAN and LHR serve different parts of the country but I wonder if AA is not looking to consolidate its entire UK operation at LHR and just have passengers heading to the regions connect onto BA.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-14 18:25:07 and read 6592 times.



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 54):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

Absolute BS!

Nope, it's not BS. Continenental, Northwest, and, now Delta, have proven it isn't. Plus 757 service on ORD-MAN might mean 2x daily frequency.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: ElmoTheHobo
Posted 2008-09-14 19:17:15 and read 6531 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
As of now, they do not plan on actually starting the 3rd daily BOS-LHR service, but we'll see.

About time. American announced a third frequency way back in 2003 after dumping Newark-Heathrow and it never came to be.

IMO American is better off using that slot to boost JFK back up to 6x daily, unless they're going to deploy their 757s to add another New York - London frequency (be it Stansted or Gatwick).

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 51):
FURUREFA' what you heard is most likely what will happen.

American's operation at LHR has been changing around a lot (JFK -1, DFW +2/3, RDU +1, BOS +1, LAX -1) since open skies. I wouldn't discount any rumors yet.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 56):
Nope, it's not BS. Continental, Northwest, and, now Delta, have proven it isn't. Plus 757 service on ORD-MAN might mean 2x daily frequency.

Which would give AA a leg up against BD, as they'd offer virtually the same amount of Premium capacity on ORD-MAN with greater frequency.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Brilondon
Posted 2008-09-14 19:29:14 and read 6495 times.

I am not sure why it is considered a downgrade. The only real difference would be the siae of the plane. Oh and probably the quality of the inflight entertainment. Which on my most recent trip to England sucked anyway. Thank goodness for my laptop computer.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: 8herveg
Posted 2008-09-15 12:53:03 and read 6239 times.



Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 36):
Any chance AA will up JFK back to 6x daily?

I was wondering this. Especially as they no longer do the JFK-STN route. Ok, it was on a 767, but I reckon AA could easily fill another daily 777 to LHR.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Panamair
Posted 2008-09-15 13:14:54 and read 6203 times.



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 59):
but I reckon AA could easily fill another daily 777 to LHR.

But at what yields? Yields into LHR have been royally trashed recently, even in the premium cabins. For example, with some advance notice, one can get a NYC-LHR roundtrip in Business in the last quarter of 2008 on CO for under US$1900 all-in.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-15 13:19:35 and read 6198 times.



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 57):
Which would give AA a leg up against BD, as they'd offer virtually the same amount of Premium capacity on ORD-MAN with greater frequency.

Since BA pulled out of MAN I think AA demise is coming soon. I cannot see how 2 x 757's, even if they did double up the route, would be more efficient than the BD 332. The 332 will cream it on freight, crew costs, cabin comfort and quality.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AmricanShamrok
Posted 2008-09-15 13:52:26 and read 6112 times.



Quoting Col (Reply 61):
The 332 will cream it on freight, crew costs, cabin comfort and quality.

As will the Aer Lingus A330s that compete on the route out of Dublin.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Gkirk
Posted 2008-09-15 14:14:31 and read 6066 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 56):

Nope, it's not BS. Continenental, Northwest, and, now Delta, have proven it isn't. Plus 757 service on ORD-MAN might mean 2x daily frequency.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way...

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: DFWEagle
Posted 2008-09-15 14:31:04 and read 6051 times.

Both MAN and DUB may be getting a new JFK flight on AA in addition to the existing ORD flights.

AA already books quite a lot of people on EI and BA flights to DUB and MAN through their code-shares and with BA leaving JFK-MAN, it will leave a gap that AA wants to fill.

2x757 is an increase in capacity overall than 1x763, and having both ORD and JFK as gateways will allow AA to offer good schedules to more of the USA than they do now, especially to New York.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Shamrock604
Posted 2008-09-15 14:38:08 and read 6026 times.



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 64):
Both MAN and DUB may be getting a new JFK flight on AA in addition to the existing ORD flights.

Would be a big mistake IMHO, at least from DUB. There is already enough capacity on DUB-NYC (as EI found out this year when they had real troubles filling their evening EI109 flight)

With up to 3 EI flights daily to JFK, 2 daily CO to EWR and the daily DL to JFK, any new operator on DUB-NYC will have a hard time I think.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Styles9002
Posted 2008-09-15 14:52:17 and read 5983 times.

I doubt AA base their route planning decisions on what Irish Lingus is doing on the JFK DUB route. If Irish Lingus has a hard time filling an extra rotation between New York and Dublin, it is probably because they operate decrepit aircraft and have no frequent flyer base in greater NY and even less name recognition in the area. Whatever AA plans to do and what they follow through on will only matter on how they view the opportunity cost of running the flights. The B752 is an ideal aircraft for JFK DUB and with the refurbishment and refinement planned, they will offer a very attractive service. Sure, AA is a bit late to this game as CO and DL have already established the precedent on it, but it doesn't mean it won't succeed.

Styles9002

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Shamrock604
Posted 2008-09-15 15:01:29 and read 5964 times.

Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 66):
I doubt AA base their route planning decisions on what Irish Lingus is doing on the JFK DUB route. If Irish Lingus has a hard time filling an extra rotation between New York and Dublin, it is probably because they operate decrepit aircraft and have no frequent flyer base in greater NY and even less name recognition in the area. Whatever AA plans to do and what they follow through on will only matter on how they view the opportunity cost of running the flights.

Styles.... for the last time... It's Aer Lingus, as many on the Irish Aviation threads have told you.

I'll take a decrepit A330 over a decrepit B757 any day. DL and CO, and indeed anyone patronising pretty much any US carrier, are in no position to talk about decrepit aircraft.

EI have no name recognition in NY.... one of the most Irish cities in the US? What are you talking about?

Perhaps AA might take more notice of the increasingly competitive situation on DUB-NYC that CO and DL have also been witnessing this year.

Also, I am very sure that AA will be more than interested on what the Biggest carrier on DUB-NYC is doing, indeed what the biggest DUB-US carrier is doing, especially as they have a codesharing relationship with that airline now for several years.

But dont let your obvious problem with things Irish blind your opinion, now will you?

[Edited 2008-09-15 15:11:04]

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: F1eddie
Posted 2008-09-15 15:02:57 and read 5955 times.



Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 66):
Irish Lingus



Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 66):
Irish Lingus

Wow great responce there. What airline were you talking about though. I dont think there is any airline called Irish Lingus operating this route....

Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 66):
decrepit aircraft

However AER LINGUS who do operate this route is upgrading 80% of there long haul A/C, which will be in operation by next summer, so i think AER LINGUS will have the best service on this route.

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 67):
Styles.... for the last time... It's Aer Lingus, as many on the Irish Aviation threads have told you.I'll take a decrepit A330 over a decrepit B757 any day. DL and CO, and indeed anyone patronising pretty much any US carrier, are in no position to talk about decrepit aircraft.EI have no name recognition in NY.... one of the most Irish cities in the US? What are you talking about?Perhaps AA might take more notice of the increasingly competitive situation on DUB-NYC that CO and DL have also been witnessing this year.But dont let your obvious problem with things Irish blind your opinion, now will you?

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2008-09-15 16:19:43 and read 5888 times.



Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 67):
over a decrepit B757

Your argument doesn't hold because the B757's which will be used for the routes are going to be completely refurbished.  yes 

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Shamrock604
Posted 2008-09-15 16:23:46 and read 5881 times.



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 69):
Your argument doesn't hold because the B757's which will be used for the routes are going to be completely refurbished.

As are the A330's, which F1eddie explained above. In any case, I wasnt reffering to AA's 757's, rather that of CO's and DL's which also ply the route. Having flown on all, my choice would be clear!

At least the rest of my arguement seems to hold in your eyes, seeing as you havent found anything wrong with it!  Wink

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: United1
Posted 2008-09-15 16:37:25 and read 5857 times.



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 54):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
AA will lose no customers because 99.9% of customers don't care.

Absolute BS!

I dont think its that most customers don't care they just for the most part have no clue about the different types of aircraft. To alot of people a 757 must be better then a 380 because the number is higher.  duck  The only area where AA stands to loose travelers might be amongst frequent flyers who are aware of what the different aircraft types are, but even then I live with an AA Exec Platinum and his biggest criteria for choosing an AA flight over 2 hours is anything but a MD80.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-09-15 18:00:37 and read 5799 times.



Quoting DFWEagle (Reply 64):
Both MAN and DUB may be getting a new JFK flight on AA in addition to the existing ORD flights.

Yup. In addition there is talk of making JFK-BCN a 757, but it might be complemented with a new MIA-BCN 763 service.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: ElmoTheHobo
Posted 2008-09-15 18:34:09 and read 5762 times.



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 59):
I was wondering this. Especially as they no longer do the JFK-STN route. Ok, it was on a 767, but I reckon AA could easily fill another daily 777 to LHR.

The issue is slots. American could fill up 777s to Heathrow until the cows come home, they just don't have the slots.

Quoting Col (Reply 61):
Since BA pulled out of MAN I think AA demise is coming soon.

That's nonsense. British Airways has a vested interest in Heathrow. American has a vested interest in New York and Chicago. It makes sense for American to serve Manchester from Kennedy and O'Hare than it does British Airways serving New York from Manchester.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 62):
As will the Aer Lingus A330s that compete on the route out of Dublin.

You're ignoring the fact that though Aer Lingus and American codeshare, their relationship isn't anywhere near what it used to be, and with EI and UA codesharing, and their new alliance with B6, it won't be long before AA cuts it off entirely. Aer Lingus no longer participates in AAdvantage, meaning members can no longer earn miles flown on non-codeshare flights.

If, and I believe it is a matter of when, American launches service to Ireland from New York, they will stand of making it work - no runaway success, but no failure either - because of its frequent flyer program. AA flyers will stick with American, no matter how great the EI A330s are. American will be offering a comparable J and Y class product.

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 67):
I'll take a decrepit A330 over a decrepit B757 any day. DL and CO, and indeed anyone patronising pretty much any US carrier, are in no position to talk about decrepit aircraft.

Have you flown Delta or Continental recently? I've always been impressed by CO's standards and Delta has made me think twice about where I do my flying.

Quoting F1eddie (Reply 68):
However AER LINGUS who do operate this route is upgrading 80% of there long haul A/C, which will be in operation by next summer, so i think AER LINGUS will have the best service on this route.

Best service, sure - but by how much, and will it be enought for them to charge a premium, or will they consistently be the cheapest option to Ireland?

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 67):
Perhaps AA might take more notice of the increasingly competitive situation on DUB-NYC that CO and DL have also been witnessing this year.

And with all the involved carriers splitting and going their own ways (CO to Star, DL in Skyteam, EI being a harlot, and AA in Oneworld) they'll probably each find their own niche.

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 67):
Also, I am very sure that AA will be more than interested on what the Biggest carrier on DUB-NYC is doing, indeed what the biggest DUB-US carrier is doing, especially as they have a codesharing relationship with that airline now for several years.

As I said earlier, the relationship is dying, it's a matter of time before American steps up and launches its own NY-Ireland flights.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Jacobin777
Posted 2008-09-15 20:01:55 and read 5696 times.



Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 70):
I wasnt reffering to AA's 757's, rather that of CO's and DL's which also ply the route. Having flown on all, my choice would be clear!

..aaaaah...I see.. Smile

Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 70):
At least the rest of my arguement seems to hold in your eyes, seeing as you havent found anything wrong with it!  Wink

 rotfl ..no worries mate.. highfive 

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Shamrock604
Posted 2008-09-15 21:12:16 and read 5665 times.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 73):
Have you flown Delta or Continental recently? I've always been impressed by CO's standards and Delta has made me think twice about where I do my flying.

Yup, I have indeed. CO always impressed me. DL are not half bad either. But I do not like the 757 on transatlantic. I always get off feeling like crap, and find them cramped. It doesnt matter how good the service is, it doesnt make up for that. I realize the 75 is perfect for Ireland - US ops..... but it doesnt mean I have to like it!  

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 73):
You're ignoring the fact that though Aer Lingus and American codeshare, their relationship isn't anywhere near what it used to be, and with EI and UA codesharing, and their new alliance with B6, it won't be long before AA cuts it off entirely. Aer Lingus no longer participates in AAdvantage, meaning members can no longer earn miles flown on non-codeshare flights.

Understood that AA's relationship with EI isnt what it was. But Styles seemed to think that AA would ignore what the pesky Pipsqueek little Irish Carrier with the funny name would do on DUB-NYC, especially when challenged with the might of the clearly superior AA. I thought that was a little silly considering AER Lingus is the biggest DUB-NYC carrier. I think most would agree with me on that one!  

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 73):
And with all the involved carriers splitting and going their own ways (CO to Star, DL in Skyteam, EI being a harlot, and AA in Oneworld) they'll probably each find their own niche.

I would prefer to call EI a Whore as opposed to a Harlot, but both make an equally fine choice of words!  

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 74):
Quoting Shamrock604 (Reply 70):
At least the rest of my arguement seems to hold in your eyes, seeing as you havent found anything wrong with it!

..no worries mate..

Im glad the conversation is humourous between us Jacobin....  

[Edited 2008-09-15 21:28:40]

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: Col
Posted 2008-09-16 06:00:08 and read 5511 times.



Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 66):
If Irish Lingus has a hard time filling an extra rotation between New York and Dublin, it is probably because they operate decrepit aircraft and have no frequent flyer base in greater NY and even less name recognition in the area.

Right there 100%, Irish Lingus have absolutely zero name recognition in NY, nor any in MA where I am. No wonder they can't fill any of those planes that depart JFK every hour, on the hour. And have you seen their web site, you can't book anything Big grin

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 73):
That's nonsense. British Airways has a vested interest in Heathrow. American has a vested interest in New York and Chicago. It makes sense for American to serve Manchester from Kennedy and O'Hare than it does British Airways serving New York from Manchester.

That is why they are going down to 5 per week and reducing to 757, the vested interest is reducing!! One World is just about finished in MAN, only Finnair seem to have any growth plans. Skyteam/Star have a good range of support carriers there, so they have more options to fill their tubes. Most MAN flights depart late on, so that it gives people like CO/DL/US opportunities to connect late arrivals to their European destinations.

Topic: RE: Unofficial: AA ORD-DUB/ORD-MAN To Become 757
Username: AA767400
Posted 2008-09-16 09:03:54 and read 5420 times.

Apparently the APFA have made runs on both NW and CO to view how things operate Crew wise on their 757 across the pond. There are two issues that come to mind, with one being the amount of seats AA wants to keep in the back. As of now AA does not want to reduce the number of coach seats and keep it at 166 the way it is now. All three, CO/NW/DL have a reduced number of coach seats on their Atlantic 757s.

The other is Crew rest. Where and how is the question. AA wants to offer the last row, but no curtain. So right now APFA and AA are working to come to a solution with these issues. On the other side of things, the APA has asked for two J seats. Which is understandable, but would bring down the number of J seats to 14. Of course if AA only plans on operating these birds on JFK-U.K./Ireland, or MIA-Latin American, the Crew rest issues don't come into affect. With only one route being a contender in Latin America for Crew rest and that would be MIA-CNF. But that route right now is going to operate with a 763, down the line it could go 757 during the slower months. Another contender would be MIA-ASU if they ever open the station again.

Either way, I am glad that these planes are getting a new interior because god knows they need it bad.

[Edited 2008-09-16 09:11:38]

[Edited 2008-09-16 09:12:55]


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