Print from Airliners.net discussion forum
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4165419/

Topic: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-02 17:45:19 and read 6258 times.

This was spurred on by the NW compensation thread. I made some statements about KE and DL and how they will work in the post merger.

I made a simple map of non-stop flights between Asia and the US on KE, DL/NW and CZ. (CI is looking to join and will be added once they are a full member.)

How will this be expanded?
Also remember that KE will get the 787. Where would they use it to the US?

http://homepage.mac.com/justinwdart/.Pictures/Deltaskyteam/MergeDLskyteam.jpg

NOTE:
I didn't add 5th freedom flights as I would also have to include all of CZ's and KE's Inter-Asia routes.
KE has 47 destinations in Asia (Oceania excluded)
CZ has 20+ destinations in Asia

This is TRANS-PAC not just Asia which would include DXB.

[Edited 2008-10-02 17:56:19]

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DaufuskieGuy
Posted 2008-10-02 17:51:04 and read 6239 times.

what about HKG? is there any non stop SKY service? DTW I think? need to add JFK and ATL. Also need to add JFK NRT, even if it comes of the expense of another route like PDX or MSP or SEA or SFO.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-02 18:06:15 and read 6185 times.



Quoting DaufuskieGuy (Reply 1):
what about HKG? is there any non stop SKY service? DTW I think? need to add JFK and ATL. Also need to add JFK NRT

HKG will happen but right now US to HKG on Skyteam is Via NRT or ICN. I think DTW would be the more effective simply for its position and for rotation. The flight number though could start at ATL.

Also I think we will see DTW-ICN, maybe MSP-ICN and KE has had interest in BOS.

CZ had mentioned an interest in DTW.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: AznMadSci
Posted 2008-10-02 18:05:53 and read 6187 times.



Quoting DaufuskieGuy (Reply 1):
what about HKG? is there any non stop SKY service? DTW I think? need to add JFK and ATL. Also need to add JFK NRT, even if it comes of the expense of another route like PDX or MSP or SEA or SFO.

HKG is served by NW via NRT, but no nonstop to US with a Skyteam partner.

JFK-NRT is not confirmed but many a.netters speculate it should soon post-merger.

Other than SEA-PEK, which is confirmed but hasn't been started, all flights are currently flown by Skyteam partners, minus those flown by CO.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-02 18:17:02 and read 6160 times.



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 3):
JFK-NRT is not confirmed but many a.netters speculate it should soon post-merger.

This was stated by NW as one route they would like to re-start after acquisition of the 787. DL also rand the route and has been interested in re-starting it. JFK-NRT is one of the higher if not the highest yield routes between Japan and the US yet it is only served by JL, NH and AA at this point. At another point in history it was served by DL, NW, AA, UA, JL and NH.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: AA388
Posted 2008-10-02 18:24:36 and read 6140 times.

Isnt CO still a skyteam partner?? If so the their EWR-HKG would count as non stop to the us.


-max

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-02 18:26:19 and read 6135 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
JFK-NRT is one of the higher if not the highest yield routes between Japan and the US yet it is only served by JL, NH and AA at this point.

And CO via EWR.

I think we will see a DL/KE JV to add to the ATI they have.
ATL-HKG will happen but some other routes need to be started first plus some 77Ls will need to go to 77E routes. I wouldn't rule SEA-HKG on DL out with a 77E/L post merger.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: USPIT10L
Posted 2008-10-02 20:17:17 and read 6016 times.



Quoting AA388 (Reply 5):
Isnt CO still a skyteam partner?? If so the their EWR-HKG would count as non stop to the us.

Once the merger is completed, CO will leave SkyTeam and head to Star Alliance.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: NASCARAirforce
Posted 2008-10-02 20:38:51 and read 5973 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
CZ had mentioned an interest in DTW.

Before the delay of the 787s, CZ was supposed to start service to DTW in 2009 or 2010.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-02 20:43:15 and read 5970 times.

Concerning CO and the table above.

I excluded CO specifically because they are leaving Skyteam. Otherwise the above chart would include (for 2009):
EWR-NRT
EWR-PVG
EWR-PEK
EWR-HKG
IAH-NRT
(I would not include CO/CS operations as most are GUM-Japan which I would consider inter-Asia. But HNL-GUM could count.)

[Edited 2008-10-02 20:47:20]

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DLlaxPride
Posted 2008-10-02 22:39:13 and read 5854 times.

DL is also very interested in SYD probably out of LAX.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-02 23:41:22 and read 5811 times.

The thing to think about is how many truly viable nonstop Trans-pac routes will be viable and profitable.

How will aircraft be used?
What could get added as a 5th freedom through Japan if some go non-stop?
Example:
DL keeps SEA-NRT
DL drops NRT-ICN
NRT-ICN traffic is put on KE
Problem KE's last flight to ICN is at 18:05 which is too tight for some of NW's currently scheduled arrivals into NRT.

But by dropping this one 5th freedom, they could add a new destination or restart a previously dropped destination.

Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 10):
DL is also very interested in SYD probably out of LAX.

This is a definite possibility especially with the flight number originating in ATL. But I wonder if DL would have rebuild certain aspects of its LAX international hub to make sure that they can be effective?
Post merger DL/Skyteam LAX international:
LAX-NRT
LAX-ICN
LAX-MEXICO (4 or 5 destinations on AM)

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Timf
Posted 2008-10-03 07:04:10 and read 5643 times.

I know CZ had announced plans to start PEK-DTW around the same time NW is starting DTW-PVG, but this was supposed to be with a 787 and given the delays with the program I'm not sure if they still plan on starting this as scheduled. Do they have another type of aircraft available to serve this route (like NW is doing with the 744) or is it on hold until the 787 is available? I couldn't find any articles related to this route since last December.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: UAL777UK
Posted 2008-10-03 07:36:09 and read 5595 times.



Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 10):
DL is also very interested in SYD probably out of LAX.

They surely need to ramp up ops at LAX first before they start that route, which clearly has not been happing. They keep promising much in LAX or should I say certain A.Netters do but nothing of great significance has materilised yet.
Also, a partner in Australia would be helpful too.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-03 07:46:58 and read 5556 times.



Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 10):
DL is also very interested in SYD probably out of LAX.

While SYD is trans-pacific it is not Asia.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-03 09:04:50 and read 5442 times.

If we include Australia and New Zealand, would that be the only place where Skyteam & DL could really expand?

There are large parts of East Asia and South East Asia that either restricted by agreements, distance, or lack of interest. So where can they expand?
Mongolia?
Vietnam?

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: FlyDreamliner
Posted 2008-10-03 10:32:37 and read 5330 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 15):
Mongolia?
Vietnam?

Mongolia lacks the traffic from NorAm, and the US-Vietnam bilateral allows for only one carrier from each state to serve the other.

We'll see more NRT non-stops, we'll see HKG flights from at least 2 hub/focus cities, and we may see more connectivity with KE in ICN. I think the NRT will be used for less pass-through and more direct connections to North America, where yields can be higher, and more connecting traffic can be shuttled to KE for destinations not served directly.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2008-10-03 10:38:40 and read 5326 times.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
the US-Vietnam bilateral allows for only one carrier from each state to serve the other.

Incorrect. The bilateral allows 2 US carriers up to 14 weekly flights combined. It's 5th freedom rights that are the hangup; NW could go via HKG (like UA does) or via KIX, but they'd like to go via NRT, and the government of Vietnam doesn't want to permit that.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-10-03 11:41:27 and read 5255 times.



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Incorrect. The bilateral allows 2 US carriers up to 14 weekly flights combined. It's 5th freedom rights that are the hangup; NW could go via HKG (like UA does) or via KIX, but they'd like to go via NRT, and the government of Vietnam doesn't want to permit that.

Hmm, well then if this is correct, I'd assume that DL would probably just tag SGN (or maybe HAN) onto a US-HKG nonstop if/when they start such a route.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2008-10-03 12:24:41 and read 5216 times.



Quoting OA412 (Reply 18):
I'd assume that DL would probably just tag SGN (or maybe HAN) onto a US-HKG nonstop if/when they start such a route.

My guess is that the government of Vietnam may not act as restrictively once VN is established in the US. We shall see.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Delta763
Posted 2008-10-03 12:29:30 and read 5198 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):

HKG will happen but right now US to HKG on Skyteam is Via NRT or ICN. I think DTW would be the more effective simply for its position and for rotation. The flight number though could start at ATL.

Also I think we will see DTW-ICN, maybe MSP-ICN and KE has had interest in BOS.

CZ had mentioned an interest in DTW.

With the opening of SEA-PEK, I really like the idea of SEA as a location for DL/NW's new hub to Asia. It's in a prime location for access to market and for connections, and there's a decent O/D market there as well. There's already service to NRT, PEK, and ICN on KE. I could see PVG, HKG and TPE working from there right away, with perhaps MNL, SIN, and BKK being added as more money starts coming in.

It might even make sense as a hopping point to SYD, away from the chaos of LAX.

Strengthening relations with AS would be crucial to making it work. They already have pretty good codeshare agreements, though. This would allow DL to focus on long-haul.

If I was in Seattle I'd be really excited about the possibilities.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-10-03 12:39:42 and read 5173 times.



Quoting Delta763 (Reply 20):
away from the chaos of LAX.

While I actually agree with your post, I keep wondering why people think that LAX is so chaotic if youre not changing terminals.

If you dont have to change terminals at LAX, its is perhaps one of the easiest airports to deal with in the world. Its easier than DTW, ATL, MSP, or any other airport. Its when you have to change terminals that LAX becomes a chaos.

That being said, I agree that LAX is not the place for DL to focus its international network. I think SEA is the place for focus DL/NW Asia hub.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Delta763
Posted 2008-10-03 13:02:34 and read 5140 times.

I see your point. Thing is, with only two airlines currently serving LAX-SYD, I imagine a pretty big chunk of people flying to SYD via LAX are changing terminals.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-10-03 13:44:27 and read 5083 times.



Quoting Delta763 (Reply 22):
I imagine a pretty big chunk of people flying to SYD via LAX are changing terminals.

Actually to SYD, most people dont change terminals. UA (who flies in and out of T7) flies to SYD and most people who connect to their flight come in at T7 as well. QF uses AA's T4 for their flights to SYD. Since AA and QF codeshare, most people dont not have to change terminals to get on this flight. IF DL flew LAX-SYD, it would be more of the same.

Flights to BNE, AKL, and MEL are a different story (since only QF flies those).

I do agree that SEA should be the focus of all this though.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-03 13:53:10 and read 5072 times.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 21):
If you dont have to change terminals at LAX, its is perhaps one of the easiest airports to deal with in the world. Its easier than DTW, ATL, MSP, or any other airport

I really don't agree with your statement. DTW is very easy to change gates at the NW terminal, probably easier than any other large US airport. I would rank MSP,ATL and then LAX in that order.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-10-03 13:52:53 and read 5072 times.



Quoting Delta763 (Reply 20):
With the opening of SEA-PEK, I really like the idea of SEA as a location for DL/NW's new hub to Asia. It's in a prime location for access to market and for connections, and there's a decent O/D market there as well.

Connecting in SEA is also a more direct routing for most people travelling from the East Coast than either LAX or SFO.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-10-03 14:03:45 and read 5305 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 24):
I really don't agree with your statement. DTW is very easy to change gates at the NW terminal, probably easier than any other large US airport. I would rank MSP,ATL and then LAX in that order.

The catch phrase is "if you dont have to change terminals." Given that the terminals are smaller (on a per terminal basis) at LAX than any of the other Airports listed, I believe it is easier at LAX than MSP, DTW, ATL, or any hub airport given that those airports have larger terminals. Its easier to walk 40 feet, than say 300 feet.

LAX is not a hub, its an Origin or Destination.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Atlanta
Posted 2008-10-03 14:17:12 and read 5262 times.



Quoting DLlaxPride (Reply 10):
DL is also very interested in SYD probably out of LAX.

If post merger SLC is still a hub what about SLC-SYD?

Atlanta

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-03 14:40:43 and read 5173 times.



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 27):
If post merger SLC is still a hub what about SLC-SYD?

Atlanta

I think the total forecast for O&D passengers a day SLC-SYD would be about 2-3 Mormon missionaries a day and non revs who couldn't get on any other flights to SYD. Lots of room for cargo, but I don't think there would be any. I think BZN-SYD hold the upper hand for potential.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Atlanta
Posted 2008-10-03 14:43:26 and read 5163 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 28):

I apologize for not being clear enough however, I ment since the 772LR can't make ATL-SYD non-stop try ATL-SLC-SYD with 772ER.

Atlanta

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LawnDart
Posted 2008-10-04 05:32:40 and read 4480 times.



Quoting Centrair (Thread starter):
Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes

How about SLC - NRT?

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Burnsie28
Posted 2008-10-04 07:38:27 and read 4396 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
CZ had mentioned an interest in DTW.

They are to begin service with the 787.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
JFK-NRT is one of the higher if not the highest yield routes between Japan and the US yet it is only served by JL, NH and AA at this point

Actually its very low yielding, thats why NW dropped it, in fact they publically stated that when they did as well. They were waiting for the 787 since it would have a much much lower CASM so they could make money on those low yielding routes.

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 27):
If post merger SLC is still a hub what about SLC-SYD?

SEA would come first.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 30):
How about SLC - NRT?

I wouldn't expect to see much international service from SLC. DEN would get NRT service probably before SLC.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-04 10:31:44 and read 4287 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 11):
Example:
DL keeps SEA-NRT
DL drops NRT-ICN
NRT-ICN traffic is put on KE
Problem KE's last flight to ICN is at 18:05 which is too tight for some of NW's currently scheduled arrivals into NRT.

Plus TPE-NRT on CI and maybe CZ can/will start NRT-PEK/PVG? HKG is likely to stay. ICN will likely go KE.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 13):
Also, a partner in Australia would be helpful too.

DJ?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Incorrect. The bilateral allows 2 US carriers up to 14 weekly flights combined. It's 5th freedom rights that are the hangup; NW could go via HKG (like UA does) or via KIX, but they'd like to go via NRT, and the government of Vietnam doesn't want to permit that.

Well thats what I get for listing to a.net. Maybe Glenn was right about SGN after all.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 23):
who flies in and out of T7)

Would SYD not be in T6?

Quoting Atlanta (Reply 27):
If post merger SLC is still a hub what about SLC-SYD?

No

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 30):
How about SLC - NRT?

hmmmm Sounds like a good 787 route.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 31):
SEA would come first.

And LAX will come in 2010

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 31):
I wouldn't expect to see much international service from SLC. DEN would get NRT service probably before SLC.

On Delta? Your joking. You talking about going head to head with UA in DEN. Not a good idea. SLC-NRT might work with a 787. (good non-rev route) Kind of like UA starting MSP-NRT.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LAXdude1023
Posted 2008-10-04 10:54:40 and read 4240 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 32):
Would SYD not be in T6?

No, flight 839 to SYD typically leaves from gate 74 or 77 in T7.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
ATL-HKG will happen but some other routes need to be started first

Its probably going to be a while for this one. Right now, flights to China are struggling a bit more. So if DL wants to fly to HKG, I would imagine they might try SEA first or just keep routing it through NRT for the time being. ATL-HKG might happen one day, but it will be a while I think.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-04 10:59:22 and read 4228 times.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 33):
Its probably going to be a while for this one. Right now, flights to China are struggling a bit more. So if DL wants to fly to HKG, I would imagine they might try SEA first or just keep routing it through NRT for the time being. ATL-HKG might happen one day, but it will be a while I think.

I agree. I think we will see India (DEL) and some routes that are to hot for the 77E(DXB) plus some routes out of other hubs.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 33):


No, flight 839 to SYD typically leaves from gate 74 or 77 in T7.

Ok I thought most of UA's 744 gates are in T6.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Lambert747
Posted 2008-10-04 11:02:01 and read 4224 times.



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 29):
I apologize for not being clear enough however, I ment since the 772LR can't make ATL-SYD non-stop try ATL-SLC-SYD with 772ER



Quoting Atlanta (Reply 27):
If post merger SLC is still a hub what about SLC-SYD?

Why, Why, and Why?

SLC-SYD for what reason, for what purpose? Honestly the argument was bad enough for ATL-SYD. The end verdict in that thread was the cost to operate a route with such a stage length would be a mess, a total mess, unless the route was flown with a very heavy front end configuration to offset the cost of operation. Looking at SLC there is no purpose what so ever. SLC has weak connectivity to viable markets vs the power of ATL. SLC does not have draw what so ever for any O/D between the USA and Australia. If and when DL decides to serve SYD it will be from ATL and it will be with an intermediate stop in a market with a natural demand for Australia to enduce yield.

Again SLC-SYD would be about as sensible as FAT-HKG.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: RwSEA
Posted 2008-10-04 11:11:09 and read 4219 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 32):
On Delta? Your joking. You talking about going head to head with UA in DEN. Not a good idea. SLC-NRT might work with a 787. (good non-rev route) Kind of like UA starting MSP-NRT.

I think he was referring to the fact that UA hasn't tried DEN-NRT yet. Given UA's much larger presence in NRT, and that their DEN hub is much larger than the DL SLC hub, if UA can't make DEN-NRT work, then DL would have a very hard time making SLC-NRT work.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Lambert747
Posted 2008-10-04 11:39:27 and read 4193 times.



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 36):
I think he was referring to the fact that UA hasn't tried DEN-NRT yet. Given UA's much larger presence in NRT, and that their DEN hub is much larger than the DL SLC hub, if UA can't make DEN-NRT work, then DL would have a very hard time making SLC-NRT work.

SLC-ICN, SLC-NRT I dont think they are viable long term. The runway for starters at SLC is to short for extended long haul service outside of the current CDG flight. There is a market for SLC-Asia if DL conitnues SLC as a hub, however as can be seen eyes have been peering at LAX and SEA more and more lately for T-Pac expansion.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: MCOAviationFan
Posted 2008-10-04 12:05:03 and read 4185 times.

From earlier comments from DL, JFK-NRT is probably the first route coming post merger. With 6 777LR's on the way, there's probably several others, but with the Boeing strike, I'm sure the delivery dates for these aircraft have been affected. They were originally set for December through March. What effect this will have on routes will depend on when they are delivered.

DL may have taken precautions regarding the Boeing strike, as no plans have been made public yet regarding these aircraft. We do know that the 777ER fleet will be refit with lie flat BE seats this winter in addition to the 767-400.

DL will also be reallocating DL and NW widebody aircraft post merger with comments being made that this will begin to occur in spring 2009. It will be interesting to see how this reallocation is done.

Also, per a conversation I had with a very knowledgeable DL source,, the DL spring expansion will indeed be "creative" as a poster in another thread mentioned.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: LawnDart
Posted 2008-10-04 13:09:56 and read 4134 times.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 31):
I wouldn't expect to see much international service from SLC.

I wouldn't expect much int'l service from SLC either, but I'll bet NRT is one of them.

Quoting Lambert747 (Reply 37):
The runway for starters at SLC is to short for extended long haul service outside of the current CDG flight.

NRT is only about 400 miles further from SLC than CDG is.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Cubsrule
Posted 2008-10-04 15:03:06 and read 4040 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 32):
Well thats what I get for listing to a.net.

Don't feel too bad. It took me a good chunk of an afternoon to figure that out.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 39):
NRT is only about 400 miles further from SLC than CDG is.

...but it's the wrong direction. SLC-WAW would require less runway than SLC-NRT even though they're the same length because the winds are favorable eastbound.

...and before someone asks, I DO NOT think that DL will start SLC-WAW post-merger.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: B773A346
Posted 2008-10-04 15:18:52 and read 4033 times.

Since we are talking about the Asia Route, lets also discuss BOM and DEL too.
Will Delta/Northwest fly - BOM -ATL and BOM-AMS too ?
KE flies to ICN, will they make it daily route and upgrade the aircraft also ?

DEL unfortunately has none, but will they consider DEL too with DL/NW or KE

Do they plan any other Indian Destination ?

Also Singapore too . is served only by KE and NW to NRT .. will they make any changes to that ?

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: OA412
Posted 2008-10-04 15:22:13 and read 4031 times.



Quoting LawnDart (Reply 39):
I wouldn't expect much int'l service from SLC either, but I'll bet NRT is one of them.

For what it's worth, Glen Hauenstein was quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune a few months back as saying that DL is looking at SLC-NRT for a possible 2010/2011 launch. Obviously things change, etc. but this did come from the top so, like I said, take it for what it's worth.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-04 18:06:35 and read 3946 times.



Quoting B773A346 (Reply 41):
DEL unfortunately has none, but will they consider DEL too with DL/NW or KE

I would look for it. ATL and JFK-DEL. ATL first

Quoting B773A346 (Reply 41):
Will Delta/Northwest fly - BOM -ATL and BOM-AMS too ?

ATL will not be the only place in the US with flights to BOM. (think Northeast)

Quoting OA412 (Reply 42):
For what it's worth, Glen Hauenstein was quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune a few months back as saying that DL is looking at SLC-NRT for a possible 2010/2011 launch. Obviously things change, etc. but this did come from the top so, like I said, take it for what it's worth.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-04 18:18:20 and read 3939 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 43):
ATL will not be the only place in the US with flights to BOM. (think Northeast)

Are you going to just play mysterious (I've got a secret) or are you going to tell us?

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: RwSEA
Posted 2008-10-04 19:11:11 and read 3887 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 44):
Are you going to just play mysterious (I've got a secret) or are you going to tell us?

Well, when JFK-BOM was moved to ATL, all signs were that the route would come back when new aircraft come online...

But speaking of AMS-BOM, I do hope it stays. Connecting in AMS beats connecting in JFK/ATL anyday.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-04 23:03:23 and read 3769 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 44):
Are you going to just play mysterious (I've got a secret) or are you going to tell us?

Fine I guess I'll tell. JFK-BOM will be back. JFK-DEL will be added. Deal is though the JFK-India market needs to clam down a bit before DL jumps back in on it. That is the main reason ATL-BOM was started so early.
BTW the BOM added back was told in the PR about it moving to ATL.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Af773atmsp
Posted 2008-10-05 07:46:34 and read 3578 times.

I'm hoping to see:
MSP-PVG on DL 787
MSP-PEK on CZ or DL 787
MSP-HKG on DL with 787
MSP-KIX on DL with 787

But I don't think all these routes will start in the near future. Hopefully at least two routes will start in 2009 or 2010.

Another route I've always hoped for is MSP-SYD which might never happen but you never know.  Smile

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-05 08:05:15 and read 3545 times.



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 47):
I'm hoping to see:
MSP-PVG on DL 787
MSP-PEK on CZ or DL 787
MSP-HKG on DL with 787
MSP-KIX on DL with 787

But I don't think all these routes will start in the near future. Hopefully at least two routes will start in 2009 or 2010.

Another route I've always hoped for is MSP-SYD which might never happen but you never know.

Which of the above routes do you feel confident would work well financially and why? They don't look like anything I would want to recommend to the DL route planners.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: AmtrakGuy
Posted 2008-10-05 08:24:22 and read 3509 times.



Quoting Centrair (Reply 2):
Also I think we will see DTW-ICN, maybe MSP-ICN and KE has had interest in BOS.

How big or small is DL is at Boston? With upcoming merge, will it be big enough to add ICN?

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 32):
On Delta? Your joking. You talking about going head to head with UA in DEN. Not a good idea. SLC-NRT might work with a 787. (good non-rev route) Kind of like UA starting MSP-NRT.

Do you think it's possible KE would be interest using 787 to DEN in the future (5 or so years)?

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: MCOAviationFan
Posted 2008-10-05 09:35:41 and read 3436 times.



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 49):
How big or small is DL is at Boston? With upcoming merge, will it be big enough to add ICN?

Boston is a focus city for Delta. However, there has not been any recent move by DL to further increase their presence in this market. I don't see any Asia flights from BOS outside of maybe NRT from a combined DL/NW and that, I believe, is a long shot. If DL starts any flight to ICN from the east coast, it will be from JFK.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: AmtrakGuy
Posted 2008-10-05 09:51:14 and read 3411 times.



Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 50):
If DL starts any flight to ICN from the east coast, it will be from JFK.

True but it's already being served by KE.

Since there is no other Skyteam flies to Boston, I wonder if it's possible for KE start BOS because of more options to make connection flights in Seoul to China, Japan (??), SE Asia and Australia.

It's possible DL will fly to NRT if they can get 787 (smaller plane version -- sorry, I'm still not familiar with all type of 787 planes). But the connection options will be limited.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: MCOAviationFan
Posted 2008-10-05 10:09:41 and read 3393 times.



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 51):
It's possible DL will fly to NRT if they can get 787 (smaller plane version -- sorry, I'm still not familiar with all type of 787 planes). But the connection options will be limited.

I believe DL will start JFK-NRT with a 777ER freed up from an existing route by a 777LR.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-05 12:19:34 and read 3306 times.



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 49):
Do you think it's possible KE would be interest using 787 to DEN in the future (5 or so years)?

yes.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 50):
Boston is a focus city for Delta. However, there has not been any recent move by DL to further increase their presence in this market. I don't see any Asia flights from BOS outside of maybe NRT from a combined DL/NW and that, I believe, is a long shot. If DL starts any flight to ICN from the east coast, it will be from JFK.

BOS-NRT might happen with a 787. BOS-ICN might happen with a 787 but not a DL 787.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 52):
I believe DL will start JFK-NRT with a 777ER freed up from an existing route by a 777LR.

I believe you are right.  Wink

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Af773atmsp
Posted 2008-10-05 14:40:54 and read 3210 times.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 48):

I'm not sure about CZ starting PEK-MSP service but MSP only has one non-stop route to Asia with the one daily 744 (plus two daily on the weekends) and the flights are almost always full from what I've heard. NW has even talked about starting MSP-PVG with the 787, I don't know if DL would think the same but I think there is demand for another non-stop route to Asia (my best guess is MSP-KIX and/or PVG). When NW had non-stop MSP-HKG service with the 744 I think there was usually only a 10% load factor but that was in 1998 and Minneapolis has grown, but oil prices have too which makes it less likely NW or DL would start MSP-HKG.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-05 15:34:35 and read 3166 times.



Quoting Af773atmsp (Reply 54):
I'm not sure about CZ starting PEK-MSP service but MSP only has one non-stop route to Asia with the one daily 744 (plus two daily on the weekends) and the flights are almost always full from what I've heard. NW has even talked about starting MSP-PVG with the 787, I don't know if DL would think the same but I think there is demand for another non-stop route to Asia (my best guess is MSP-KIX and/or PVG). When NW had non-stop MSP-HKG service with the 744 I think there was usually only a 10% load factor but that was in 1998 and Minneapolis has grown, but oil prices have too which makes it less likely NW or DL would start MSP-HKG.

MSP is pretty low on the "list" to get flights to China.
ATL-PEK and DTW-PEK are the next two they will try for. LAX-China and SEA-PVG will likely be next. Then I would say JFK-China with 787s and then maybe MSP. (At one point DL tried to get CVG-China)
You have a much better chance of MSP-ICN via KE with a 787.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: MAH4546
Posted 2008-10-05 17:34:31 and read 3103 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 55):

MSP is pretty low on the "list" to get flights to China.

Northwest has already publicly announced their desire to fly MSP-China with the 787.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Centrair
Posted 2008-10-05 19:00:19 and read 3007 times.



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 51):
Since there is no other Skyteam flies to Boston, I wonder if it's possible for KE start BOS because of more options to make connection flights in Seoul to China, Japan (??), SE Asia and Australia.

The thing with BOS was the runway length for the aircraft with the range to reach Asia. With the 787, BOS could become more feasible for non-stop to Asia.

Think about this...
1) KE serves more destinations in the US that any other Asian Carriers.
2) ICN has more connections in Asia than any other Asian HUB (right now)
3) KE likes to run non-daily flights to places till they can grow so BOS could be on the list.
4) DL could provide feed
5) The 787 has the range and capacity to make BOS effective.
6) Would pull some traffic from JFK. (not a lot but some).
7) Koreans doing business on the East Coast is big. Number of Korean families sending students to East Coast boarding schools and Universities...quite a lot. (not big for yield but certainly a big deal.) Not to mention the population is also there.
8) BOS-NRT could be operated by DL/NW using a 787 on 4x week or even daily which would mean less passengers being filtered through DTW or MSP.

So let's say KE runs BOS-ICN on 3x a week and DL runs BOS-NRT 4x week. Each flight could be codeshared with the other company. Mon, Wed, Fri, could be KE runs while Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun are DL runs. The NRT flight could line up for people going onward on DL, KE and CZ flights to the rest of Asia and the ICN flight could be lined up to feed to the rest of Asia. Question is will the US government allow it especially if they are advertising each flight as a codeshare of the other.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 55):
MSP is pretty low on the "list" to get flights to China.

I think even lower due to the merger. Hub city but could be below SEA for obtaining Asian Expansion due to its proximity to DTW.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 56):
Northwest has already publicly announced their desire to fly MSP-China with the 787.

Yes they did but that was long before merger talks began.

If MSP sees any expansion to Asia, it will be to ICN and I bet it would be on KE but with limited frequency.

Again looking at how KE likes to run things to minor destinations, we see that they alternate. Example: If KE were to do ICN-BOS 3x week, then MSP would be 4x a week. The Monday flight from BOS would return as an MSP flight.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: DeltaL1011man
Posted 2008-10-05 19:38:46 and read 2983 times.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 56):
Northwest has already publicly announced their desire to fly MSP-China with the 787.

I know they have but you have got to remember DL will bring LAX,ATL and JFK to the table. Much better chance of making money with those plus SEA and DTW.

Topic: RE: Post-merger DL And Skyteam US-Asia Routes
Username: Bobnwa
Posted 2008-10-06 05:02:23 and read 2818 times.



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 58):
I know they have but you have got to remember DL will bring LAX,ATL and JFK to the table. Much better chance of making money with those plus SEA and DTW.

And you know this how. Your secret buddy in route planning?


The messages in this discussion express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Airliners.net or any entity associated with Airliners.net.

Copyright © Lundgren Aerospace. All rights reserved.
http://www.airliners.net/