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Topic: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 06:59:57 and read 10764 times.

..seems a renewed interest in the plane after the first flights went smoothly..

http://www.aero.de/news.php?varnewsid=7483

[Edited 2008-11-02 07:00:23]

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: EBJ1248650
Posted 2008-11-02 07:07:24 and read 10731 times.

Perhaps there will be further interest now from other airlines.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2008-11-02 07:23:02 and read 10649 times.

In a difficult period where Airlines are trying to save money in rationalizing their fleet, I really doubt to see world Majors like LH and AF buying this type of aircraft, moreover Russian, so completely different from what they have in teir fleet, while they already operate successfully similar size airplane (ERJ170 / ERJ190 for AF).

Beside this, The Sukhoi SuperJet 100 is damn beautiful little plane !


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Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 07:28:16 and read 10615 times.

usually "Financial Times" does not sell news that don't seem close to reality..
Furthermore LH Technics has been involved in the setting of the technical spec's of the plane..
http://www.ftd.de/unternehmen/handel...sa-%FCber-Flugzeugkauf/433687.html

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Kaitak
Posted 2008-11-02 07:34:56 and read 10582 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
In a difficult period where Airlines are trying to save money in rationalizing their fleet, I really doubt to see world Majors like LH and AF buying this type of aircraft, moreover Russian, so completely different from what they have in teir fleet, while they already operate successfully similar size airplane (ERJ170 / ERJ190 for AF).

It is certainly a difficult time, but once we get through the current recession, there will certainly be airlines looking for aircraft of this size; it is going to be a VERY crowded market, what with the MRJ, the Chinese 100 seater (the name of which I can't recall), the CRJ-1000, the Bombardier C-series and of course, the Embraer jet. It would surprise me if LH took an interest, because it already has the E-jet on order and is the first customer for the C-series.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 07:53:57 and read 10523 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
I really doubt to see world Majors like LH and AF buying this type of aircraft, moreover Russian, so completely different from what they have in teir fleet, while they already operate successfully similar size airplane (ERJ170 / ERJ190 for AF).

While you are fully right that both-LH and AF have man outstanding orders with Embraer and Candair,the Superjet would come in handy to re-new the aging fleet of SN and add regional planes for BMI and Air Dolomiti..

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: FlySSC
Posted 2008-11-02 08:29:54 and read 10391 times.

I do believe those 100 seater Jets have a bright future opened in front of them.
But the capacity of Sukhoi to offer a real family around the SuperJet 100 (just like Airbus did with the A320) will be the key to the success (or failure) of this beautiful baby.

Sukhoi has also to prove its reliability in terms of maintenance, spare provider, and also customer service if they want to "seduce" Western companies who are used to deal with commercial giants such as Boeing, Airbus, Bombarder, Embraer.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: GroundopsLEY
Posted 2008-11-02 08:37:48 and read 10347 times.

Therefore they have Alenia in a JV to market an support this aircraft for the western markets.

Makes sense for me that they are looking at this one.

It is a western designed plane build in Russia.

Gtz,
Jan

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 08:41:36 and read 10326 times.

It is my understanding that the whole support and maintenance- infrastructure will be managed and handled by Alenia,who have a 25% stake in Suchoi.
Nobody would bet a dime on the Superjet would it not have been a true East-West joint ventures,with nearly half of the value of each plane provided by a western company.
Engines are half French,cockpit American,landing gear Dowty,Flight-management software Thales..
The Russians build excellent aircraft frames but have to rely on Western partners to organize the support-packages.Furthermore,if LH and/or AF take on the plane,their respective tech op's will support the planes without too much problem,since the plane is considered les complex than Western counter-parts.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2008-11-02 08:48:48 and read 10288 times.



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 6):
Sukhoi has also to prove its reliability in terms of maintenance, spare provider, and also customer service if they want to "seduce" Western companies who are used to deal with commercial giants such as Boeing, Airbus, Bombarder, Embraer.

......which is precisely one of the reasons they have the Italians on board too.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2008-11-02 08:54:03 and read 10258 times.

If Russian industry wasn't completely controlled by the Kremlin, unreliable and corrupt, the plane might have a chance. The EU is trying to loosen ties with Russia, not create more. LH has recently suffered through a Russian fiasco where it was forced to move its Asian cargo hub to Russia or lose overflight privileges.

Some desperate western airline may take a chance on a few of these planes but I sincerely doubt that more than a handful will ever be bought by the west...but I have been wrong before...maybe Putin is a nice guy after all...

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2008-11-02 09:01:02 and read 10225 times.



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
maybe Putin is a nice guy after all...

and maybe it will prove to be a great plane?

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
If Russian industry wasn't completely controlled by the Kremlin, unreliable and corrupt, the plane might have a chance. The EU is trying to loosen ties with Russia, not create more

A gross overgeneralisation and oversimplification. I think you will find the EU's approach to Russia a little more constructive than the isolationalist reactions of, say, the USA. And, as I just stated, this is not just a Russian project.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 10):
Some desperate western airline may take a chance on a few of these planes

And that's just unnecessary. Assuming you are actually an aviation fan, you should be wishing this beautiful little plane all the success it deserves, not panning it before it's gotten started.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 09:10:31 and read 10173 times.

There is a 50:50% share between Russian and Western companies incorporated in the Superjet..
I quote :
Thales is developing the Superjet 100 avionics suite under a $120 million contract signed in 2005. The agreement covers the specification, design, validation and integration of the complete suite through certification, plus the first 50 shipsets of hardware.

The Superjet uses integrated modular avionics (IMA), with processors carrying out multiple tasks and communicating via a dual-aircraft, full-duplex (AFDX) network. Thales supplies the flight guidance, flight management and recording system, which incorporates dual CMC Electronics CMA-9000 flight management systems, multiple communications systems and the flight deck control and display system with its five liquid-crystal displays.

Other equipment includes a Honeywell Primus 880 weather radar and the T2CAS terrain and traffic collision avoidance system from Aviation Communications and Surveillance Systems, the joint venture between Thales and L-3 Communications. Rockwell Collins is supplying the VOR/DME radio navigation system and Honeywell is supplying the inertial reference system and communications management unit. MPC provides the throttle and Teledyne provides the integrated flight data management unit.

Optional features include single or dual high-frequency radios, dual Goodrich electronic flight bags and a printer. Future options may include a single head-up display and a multimode receiver with microwave landing system functionality. Thales and Sukhoi are considering whether to propose a predictive wind-shear weather radar...

Other companies involved in the Superjet design include Liebherr Aeronautics,Snecma,Dowty,Alenia,Boeing..

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: JoeCanuck
Posted 2008-11-02 09:20:07 and read 10126 times.

I've never panned the plane...I've panned its future with western airlines. I've had no qualms about flying on Russian built aircraft.

There are reasons that you don't find a lot of "Made in Russia" products...I'll be shocked if you can find many outside of Russia.

It has little to do with the quality of Russian products; it has a lot to do with the politics of Russia.

It may not be a completely Russian project but it certainly relies on Russia...enough so that, in my opinion, it'll prevent all but a few sales to western airlines.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2008-11-02 09:45:12 and read 10035 times.



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
There are reasons that you don't find a lot of "Made in Russia" products..

I don't recall seeing many 'made in Brazil' products recently, but planes can obviously be a totally different kettle of fish from general manufacturing. Politics yes, but they are ever-evolving and never as black and white as many people seem to think or want.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: BlueFlyer
Posted 2008-11-02 10:02:04 and read 9965 times.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 5):
the Superjet would come in handy to re-new the aging fleet of SN and add regional planes for BMI and Air Dolomiti.

Months ago (well before oil went through the roof and LH came onboard), SN publicly said that it would be one of the planes they'd look at to replace their current regional fleet. I don't know whether things have changed, although I imagine the replacement will now be a joint EN/LH/LX/SN project (and possibly throw in OS for good measure).

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: YULWinterSkies
Posted 2008-11-02 11:03:07 and read 9472 times.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
Engines are half French,cockpit American,landing gear Dowty,Flight-management software Thales..
The Russians build excellent aircraft frames but have to rely on Western partners to organize the support-packages.

By the way, the same can be said for the 787. Substantial amount of engineering is performed by Russian firms, components are being built in Southern Italy etc... Airplanes are becoming global, and i don't see why a "Russian" aircraft will suffer a worse reputation than, say, a "Brazilian" counterpart. Apparently, airlines seem to trust the Brazilians pretty well. So, why not?

Soviet jets were another story, and that's why they never entered the western markets much. Including the modern TU204, which still has that "Tupolev" brand, and was somewhat developed during the Soviet era, or at least with enough remnants of it.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
Nobody would bet a dime on the Superjet would it not have been a true East-West joint ventures,with nearly half of the value of each plane provided by a western company.

 checkmark 

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Columba
Posted 2008-11-02 11:20:13 and read 9252 times.

I doubt it. They have 30 E195s on order and have signed a letter of intent for 60 CSeries I can not see any room for the SSJ with LH.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Mysterzip
Posted 2008-11-02 13:39:06 and read 8105 times.



Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 13):
There are reasons that you don't find a lot of "Made in Russia" products...I'll be shocked if you can find many outside of Russia.

Take a closer look at your wife's/sister's/sister-in-law's/girlfriend's coat. It may have been actually made in Russia, Ukraine or Belarus.
Besides this, not a lot of stuff is made in Russia because of its higher cost of labor (compared to say... where China used to be) and yes, part of it has to do with Russia's politics (ie: if you want to have business with us, you have to play by our rules.) but also with the western attitudes towards Russia, which tend to be russophobic. Even though the Cold War is over, any issue with Russia seems to be a politically charged one and I don't think we can blame Russia for everything that goes wrong there or here.

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Beaucaire
Posted 2008-11-02 13:56:07 and read 7948 times.

Lufthansa tonite disputed the claim by Kommersant and said they are not currently in discussions with Suchoi..
So it seems the article is a little premature..

Sorry for the thread-openign !

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: RussianJet
Posted 2008-11-02 14:17:24 and read 7760 times.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 19):
Lufthansa tonite disputed the claim by Kommersant and said they are not currently in discussions with Suchoi..
So it seems the article is a little premature..

Sorry for the thread-openign !

Hey, no problem, you weren't to know.

Anyway.....we don't need no stinkin' LH for this plane to fly - all the more Superjets for the rest of us anyway.  tongue 

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: VANGUARD737
Posted 2008-11-03 07:39:23 and read 3763 times.



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I think you will find the EU's approach to Russia a little more constructive than the isolationalist reactions of, say, the USA.


Is this not a generalization? There are two sides to every story. One could just as easily argue the opinion that the EU tends to follow the easiest path of least resistance while the USA is willing to accept a bruised eye once in a while in order to preserve its interests. I am not saying either opinion is completely true, just offering a different way of looking at things.

That said, I personally think Sukhoi's latest offering is a well-executed endeavor and I would not be one bit surprised to see Western carriers acquiring many units. It looks great and if it proves to operate well, I do not doubt its potential for great success. I do however feel the greatest obstacle that could face this project is the seemingly-unavoidable tendency for Russian governmental bureaucracy to embed itself into business matters that should remain entirely private.

Best of success, Sukhoi!

Topic: RE: LH And AF Interested In Superjet..
Username: Alessandro
Posted 2008-11-03 08:09:05 and read 3682 times.

I doubt they buy it as passenger jet, as cargo hauler yes, but not as passenger.


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